A year without Element 1

[AB8XA]

The following amateur radio license data is taken from HamData.com (http://www.hamdata.com) on 24 Feb 2008. It covers non-Club licenses for the years 23 Feb 2006 to 23 Feb 2007, and 23 Feb 2007 to 23 Feb 2008.

There is a difference of almost eight thousand in the change to the total number of licensed amateurs in this last year, since Morse Code testing was eliminated, compared to the prior year when it was required. There's no disputing the total number of licensed amateurs went up a little this past year, rather than decreasing by several thousand as in the previous year.

While the number of the no longer issued Novice and Advanced licenses continued to decline at approximately the same rate as in the past, the decrease in no longer issued Technician Plus licenses this year was nearly 20% higher than in the previous year.

On the other hand, the number of Technician licenses, to which the no longer issued Technician Plus are being converted upon renewal, did not increase anywhere near the amount of the same-year decrease in Technician Plus, as it did in the year prior. The increase in Technician licenses this past year was over 10,000 fewer than in the previous year, and that difference is also reflected as that between the same-year loss of Technician Plus and gain of Technician.

The biggest difference between this past year and the year prior was in the General license numbers, which went from a loss of near 4,000 the year prior to a gain of over 13,000 this past year. The previous year's small increase in Extra licenses more than tripled in the past year.

Attempts to explain these changes or extend them in attempt to forecast would be baseless conjecture, so I won't go there. But the evidence suggests elimination of Morse Code testing had a significant impact on the numbers of amateur radio licenses, at least in this past year.


Number on 23 Feb 08
Tech........313,269
Tech Plus....29,036
Novice.......26,059
General.....155,189
Advanced.....72,575
Extra.......115,808
-------------------
Total hams 711,936 23 Feb 08


23 Feb 2007 - 23 Feb 2008
Number on 23 Feb 07
Tech Plus....40,293 -11,257
Novice.......29,155 -3,096
Advanced.....76,500 -3,925
-----------------------------
Losses -18,278

Tech........311,978 +1,291
General.....142,059 +13,130
Extra.......111,499 +4,309
-----------------------------
Gains +18,730
Overall (Gain) + 452
Total hams 711,484 23 Feb 07


23 Feb 2006 - 23 Feb 2007
Number on 23 Feb 06
Tech Plus....49,749 -9,456
Novice.......32,317 -3,162
General.....145,782 -3,723
Advanced.....80,757 -4,257
-----------------------------
Losses -20,598

Tech........300,073 +11,905
Extra.......110,154 +1,345
-----------------------------
Gains +13,250
Overall (Loss) -7,348
Total hams 718,832 23 Feb 06

[n8yx]

Attempts to explain these changes or extend them in attempt to forecast would be baseless conjecture, so I won't go there. But the evidence suggests elimination of Morse Code testing had a significant impact on the numbers of amateur radio licenses, at least in this past year.


If FCC employees stuffed 'gimmee' licenses in every box of Crackerjacks, you'd see a marked uptick as well...

[K8MHZ]

I have noticed an increase in interest of Morse Code recently. So much so that the radio class I teach has asked to consider a Code class.

I have also heard that the CW bands have been very active lately. I don't agree that the testing requirement made Code popular or even generated any interest. Many people, myself included, just learned to gain other privileges. That being said, I don't think I would have taken the time to learn it if there was no requirement to do so, but I am *very* glad I did learn it. My plans still include getting active on the low ends but right now I have many other things to do in the amateur realm.

I know my personal opinion is moot, but I do feel that they should have retained Morse as a requirement for Extra.

[K8MHZ]

I noticed from the author of this thread's profile that he got interested in ham radio for a certain reason:

I got interested in ham radio when I read in the Dec 15th news the FCC was dropping the code test. And then he became interested in Morse and studied and passed the test anyway!

Way to go, Moe!

[wb5ydk]

Thanks for the info. And, another "way to go, Moe" from me for taking the interest in learning Morse code, even though it is no longer required for licensing.

[N8CPA]

The real test will be at renewal time of those licenses.

And, MHZ, I like your signature. But it should read, "Para espanol, llame a Mexico, Guatemala, o de dondeqiuera vino. Se habla ingles aqui."

[KC9JIQ]

This is really sad a *tradition* as Morse code kept the OM's picking on the no-coders, to the point that many QRZ threads were pages long about the pros and cons of mandatory 5 wpm testing.

Now the dust has settled, the last brawls are over, and those elite Generals and Extras are looking at their peers, the no code Generals and Extras, and crying that this hobby is turning into CB. But it falls on deaf ears, since many know-coders operate on the animal house nets on 75 meters.

The elite gets desperate, then they realized that no class they can get is safe from the inexperienced CB jargon newcomers, the Know Code Advanced operator down the road suddenly becomes a "ham radio god" and you are grouped in with those silly winlinkers and digital non CW freaks.


I go alone now, calling your name
After losing at the game
You took me by surprise
I didn't realize that you were laughing!

[ai4ep]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.

[N2RJ]

Of course the numbers went up, DUH!

QUALITY, not Quantity. I am surprised so many don't get it.

[W1RFI]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.

When I was a little boy, I spent a bit of time thinking about how "nice" sarcasm was, alone, in my room, until I could learn not to be unkind to my fellows.

Sarasm is not nice, and if you are going to be unkind to people, at least be honest enough with yourself that you are being unkind.

You are an adult now, so the only way you will spend time alone in your room thinking about what you have done is if you choose to take that step yourself.

Ed, W1RFI

[kf4vgx]

Nice to have you here ,enjoy ;).

[KI4RVH]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.

Some people have jobs, college and other things that kept them from learning the code. I know it now and am trying to get my speed up. But that doesn't make me better than anyone else.

73,

Chris

PS- I've got plenty of gut. More than I need.

[KC9JIQ]

Some people have jobs, college and other things that kept them from learning the code. I know it now and am trying to get my speed up. But that doesn't make me better than anyone else.

73,

Chris

Exactly man, people that cannot hear *tones* or otherwise have a condition that makes taking a code test very difficult, of course there will not be a rise in licenses, since the handicapped in the ham population is quite low. Then there are those people that are just too busy to get CW down pact. Kudos to NoCodeInternational(NCI) and everyone that helped bring down the archaic standard. But as the President of NCI has said, too little too late.

[KI4RVH]

Exactly man, people that cannot hear *tones* or otherwise have a condition that makes taking a code test very difficult,

You're right on that. There is a guy here locally that has been a tech for a long time. He just can't learn it. He has hearing loss from an accident. Funny thing is he still hasn't upgraded. He seems to be happy. He does a lot of 6 and 10 meters.

73

Chris

[ad4mg]

Kudos to NoCodeInternational(NCI) and everyone that helped bring down the archaic standard. But as the President of NCI has said, too little too late.

So he's still whining too? When will this pointless bickering, bellyaching, and whining stop?

It's sad that so many hams, on both sides, harbor so much resentment that they can't even enjoy the hobby.

Me, I love amateur radio! I only have issues with those who operate in a manner that lessens the enjoyment of others.

Little nuggets of wisdom as quoted above serve only to perpetuate the hate. If the prez of that organization is that big of a baby, maybe he should resign. He isn't doing anyone any good with his whining, crybaby act.

[ky5u]

Welcome to the new Amateurs, those who are eager to learn and remain unfettered by the upgrade negative view. We're so used to the mantra about "we have to grow" that we forget that AR survived for years with less than 1/3 of the numbers we have today. Could it be that AR will be mostly for older participants even more in the future? Could it be that not everyone has the skill set to be an Amateur? Can we survive with 200,000 good technical Amateurs versus 600K appliance operators?

Like it or not, the easy fix was only a temporary fix letting in a finite number of Techs who could not pass the CW test as its great hooray. If we decline from here, what next?

My hat is off to the new guys who come in wanting to learn it all. Who want to be great Amateurs. It's up to you to join us in preserving AR from those that would see it become "CB The Next Generation". Welcome.

[W1RFI]

In the 1960s, when I was studying for my Novice I was, of course, learning the code. As I tuned the shortwave bands, I heard Morse code in use by the commercial and military services, so it set well with me that I was learning something about the radio technology of the day. Even as late as the 1960s, having hams learn the code did serve as an informal training ground for the use of code in commercial and military radio.

Today, if I tune the shortwave bands, outside the ham bands, Morse code is a rarity.

When I got my license, I probably knew the code at 4 words per minute. When I got home, I lied about my homework and truly learned the code by doing what every ham enjoys -- getting on the air and having fun.

Today, if one calls CQ at 4 wpm, it is not at all likely that one will get an answer, much less have QSO after QSO all night.

If things look different to new hams than they did to us, it is because they are different. To their credit, a pleasantly surprising number of these new hams are getting on at 4 wpm and finding out what the big deal about the mode is.

I can guarantee you that they didn't do so because some curmudgeon insulted them into it; they tried Morse code because some kindly old timer happly explained the positive aspects of the mode, and convinced the new ham to ignore the curmudgeon.

Ed, W1RFI

[wa9cwx]

No one thinks 'more' of someone because they had an excuse.

No one can think more of THEMSEVES because they had an excuse.

Those that CHOSE to wait until even the childish '5 WPM' test was dropped, are likely to be those that cry the loudest and longest about all the 'OFs who are 'bitter', and how wonderful are the 'results' of the new lower standards.

As already stated, let's wait and see.

As for me, I find it absurd that ANYONE can actually believe that ANYTHING can be IMPROVED by dumbing things down.

But, what do I know, I was stupid enough to go get my ticket in spite of all the hassels and hurdles. Maybe I was just impatient, and too dumb to realize that all things comes to those that wait.....:confused:

[KI4WCA]

Welcome to the new Amateurs, those who are eager to learn and remain unfettered by the upgrade negative view. We're so used to the mantra about "we have to grow" that we forget that AR survived for years with less than 1/3 of the numbers we have today. Could it be that AR will be mostly for older participants even more in the future? Could it be that not everyone has the skill set to be an Amateur? Can we survive with 200,000 good technical Amateurs versus 600K appliance operators?

Like it or not, the easy fix was only a temporary fix letting in a finite number of Techs who could not pass the CW test as its great hooray. If we decline from here, what next?

My hat is off to the new guys who come in wanting to learn it all. Who want to be great Amateurs. It's up to you to join us in preserving AR from those that would see it become "CB The Next Generation". Welcome.

It is going to be a difficult challenge.As a boy in the late 60s into the 70s I collected old tv sets from the curb.I removed all the components and built stuff, like circuits from the old handbook I had.There was no internet so I read books from the library about electronics.I started buying handbooks and asking for them for Christmas presents as a teen.I built giant tesla coils, high power RF oscillators , and receivers galore.But the paradigm changed.I can't see let alone work with the new SMT stuff.Lafayette is gone,Rat shack has nothing.The consumer stuff has little you can play with(microwave ovens at least have a transformer).Where people start from today is very different from where I began.I think the hobby will be fine, as long as some guidance into good on air habits is given.But the challenge is real.

[KD8HMO]

I for one am glad that they dropped the code requirement. I was not interested in it 20+ years ago, and I am still pretty much not interested in it today. It remains a legal and popular mode, even though the rest of the world has dropped the requirement already. If morse code interests you, more power to you. If it doesnt, there are many other modes to use. I will be using SSB for the most part, and starting to learn the in's and out's of RTTY and psk31.

[kb3gdd]

Code has always interested me, but I cannot use it proficiently. I learned it and passed the code test twice. The first time I was too busy with work and my CSCE expired. So I took and passed it again and earned General Class. I still don't use code.

It took a long time to gather HF equipment for various reasons. I used VHF and UHF (HT's and repeaters) and studied, mostly through the internet. I learned some basic things about antennae, propagation, best practices, and so forth. I have a lot to learn.

I'm just now getting more active on HF. It takes time (which is in short supply) and patience, especially with a modest budget. I'm planning to study for Extra, and I've begun. I'm also planning to study code and put it to good use on HF, but in my own time and for my own reasons, not because there's a test.

On top of that, I am not a scientist. These things don't come to me naturally like they do to some people.

On the other hand, the person who got me into the hobby could run rings around the lot of us regarding the theory of radio, has more experience than most 20 Extras combined, but cannot pass the code test because his hearing was permanently damaged when he was designing defensive things that have saved our necks many times. He's what you might call a "no code technician". It's a shame there aren't any records of his former professional radio engineer license. His inability to learn code made him feel insecure, and as long as he's had his license (longer than me) he's found many excuses to avoid actually using radio due to that insecurity. He's in his 80s now and never again will be active in radio.

Code is like psk or any other digital mode. It's important for its usefulness, but if you can hear well it's the least complex of all radio things. Eliminating the testing for it hardly "dumbs down" the amateur service, in my opinion.

For what it's worth.

[KC9JIQ]

I for one am glad that they dropped the code requirement. I was not interested in it 20+ years ago, and I am still pretty much not interested in it today. It remains a legal and popular mode, even though the rest of the world has dropped the requirement already. If morse code interests you, more power to you. If it doesnt, there are many other modes to use. I will be using SSB for the most part, and starting to learn the in's and out's of RTTY and psk31.

Totally agree, a ham radio "tradition" If I remember right, the "know-coders" were screaming "tradition" "tradition" with the CW testing, CW still is a tradition, but it should not be required to get a ham ticket!

[KA9VQF]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.



Ya know what?

I have looked up a lot of amateur call signs and have never seen where it says if the licensed amateur has passed any code proficiency test at all.

Maybe I’m missing something when I look at the page?

I remember that there was a class of technician called tech plus for a while I was one. No code test was required for the new technician license, I had no problem with it nor did I have a problem talking to folks I knew had just earned a tech license.

I also know that a person can go to a test session now days and take tests for all three of the current licenses available go in with nothing come out an extra. No code test required. I had also noticed before the new “no code’’ tech license program started that the amount of CW I was hearing on the bands had already seemed to have increased.

Sure, somehow I managed to pass the 5WPM code test, got my novice license and even made a whole bunch of contacts on my 75 watts input rockbound novice special transmitter.

Big deal.

My call is the original. That would be the one I was issued when I became a novice. I could have changed it three times now. I didn’t because I already had the hat with my call on it and a nice desk thing made out of black walnut with my call carved in it and a pin for my shirt or jacket.

[w5lda]

Ya know what?

I have looked up a lot of amateur call signs and have never seen where it says if the licensed amateur has passed any code proficiency test at all.

Maybe I’m missing something when I look at the page?

I remember that there was a class of technician called tech plus for a while I was one. No code test was required for the new technician license, I had no problem with it nor did I have a problem talking to folks I knew had just earned a tech license.

I also know that a person can go to a test session now days and take tests for all three of the current licenses available go in with nothing come out an extra. No code test required. I had also noticed before the new “no code’’ tech license program started that the amount of CW I was hearing on the bands had already seemed to have increased.

Sure, somehow I managed to pass the 5WPM code test, got my novice license and even made a whole bunch of contacts on my 75 watts input rockbound novice special transmitter.

Big deal.

My call is the original. That would be the one I was issued when I became a novice. I could have changed it three times now. I didn’t because I already had the hat with my call on it and a nice desk thing made out of black walnut with my call carved in it and a pin for my shirt or jacket.

Pay no attention to the local inbreeding,or to someone who waited 13 years to upgrade from tech. All the sudden he is an authority,,,sheesh!

[KA4DPO]

Mercy sakes good buddies, has it already been a whole year since element one was SCed?

Well I can't hardly wait for them sun spots to happen so I can put some pounds on my peeps on 28.085. Boy will they be surprised when I tell them it's legal for me to be there.

After that I'm gonna start throwin some pounds down on that 20 meter band too.

[K1CJS]

Yes, Its been a year. To the horror of some, morse code didn't fade into oblivion, nor did it die quickly--in fact, there is a marked increase in code use. There was a small upswing in the number of hams in the US, and in the number of license upgrades. Great news, but not unexpected.

There was not, however, a mass exodus to the HF bands as some would have you think, neither did the amateur radio service turn into a glorified CB radio service--at least no more than what it was already.

The conclusion I've come to is that the dropping of code testing did little to nothing to stimulate the amateur radio service.

Comments?

[kl7aj]

NCT = No Clue Technician.

[N8UZE]

Yes, Its been a year. To the horror of some, morse code didn't fade into oblivion, nor did it die quickly--in fact, there is a marked increase in code use. There was a small upswing in the number of hams in the US, and in the number of license upgrades. Great news, but not unexpected.

There was not, however, a mass exodus to the HF bands as some would have you think, neither did the amateur radio service turn into a glorified CB radio service--at least no more than what it was already.

The conclusion I've come to is that the dropping of code testing did little to nothing to stimulate the amateur radio service.

Comments?


Those of us not embroiled in the emotional arguments believed that the results of the change would be insignificant. I've been saying for years that there would be little change as a result of dropping the testing.

Those against dropping the test said we would be inundated by CBers. But that was unlikely. CB has taken a major nosedive over the decades.

Those for dropping the code said we would see hordes of new technically inclined people who had only been kept out by the code. That too was unlikely. Ham radio is a niche hobby. There never have been hordes of people interested in ham radio and never will be.

Yet both "sides" said I was nuts. Well I and others like me get the last laugh. :D

I am glad to see people trying code though. This means they will learn its worth. It is likely that right now there are people starting by using code readers to operate but that's ok. Over time, it will sink into their brains. They will observe first hand the advantages and disadvantages of each mode. They will experience the failure of the otherwise quite robust PSK31 when there are ionic disturbances and so on. They will find that they can actually follow the code when it is no more than raw static bursts when those ionic disturbances make every other mode fail. Of course when it is this bad, they will also observe that they might want to learn to copy code by ear since computer copy will fail.

[K4GUN]

I think it will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. I'm sure a lot of those upgrades were people who might have upgraded anyway in 2006 but just put it off so they would not have to take element 1. The not only raised 2007 numbers but also lowered 2006.

I'll also be interested to see if there is an uptick in Tech licenses in 2008. Since getting my license, I've been talking to a lot of friends who might end up getting their tickets in 2008. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

[w8pm]

No one thinks 'more' of someone because they had an excuse.

No one can think more of THEMSEVES because they had an excuse.

Those that CHOSE to wait until even the childish '5 WPM' test was dropped, are likely to be those that cry the loudest and longest about all the 'OFs who are 'bitter', and how wonderful are the 'results' of the new lower standards.

As already stated, let's wait and see.

As for me, I find it absurd that ANYONE can actually believe that ANYTHING can be IMPROVED by dumbing things down.

But, what do I know, I was stupid enough to go get my ticket in spite of all the hassels and hurdles. Maybe I was just impatient, and too dumb to realize that all things comes to those that wait.....:confused:


The assertion that AR is dumbed down by the deletion of the code requirement simply flies in the face of all the other things that a new amateur has to learn or has the opportunity to learn if he/she so chooses. Today I'm learning about Near Vertical Incidence Skywave, Automated Link Establishement, D-Star, APRS, etc., but since I may not choose to practice CW, I'm an example of the dumbing down of the hobby!

Now I know that you'll look up my callsign and see that I'm a no-code Extra. I got into AR as an emergency manager who needed to better understand it and successfully use it in emergency communications. I originally intended to just get my tech license, but decided that AR was fun, so I continued on and got my General and Extra. The general was pretty easy, but I would dearly love to see many of the folks who deride us newer guys take the Extra test without studying. I'm confident that the outcome would quiet down some of those who think that the new test is easy. In my case, not having an engineering or electrical background, I spent 1.5 hours a night for two months studying for the test and have four legal pads full of math problems that I worked to prove it. I passed my extra test with a 96%.

While our local ARES organization has a very robust program, CW is essentially ignored because everyone understands that focusing on a mode that requires substantial ongoing user training while providing such miniscule throughput is simply a waste of valuable resources.

Doug

[w4brf]

well these code Die hards I see is still Beating the old code horse ,:)

[KI4RVH]

NCT = No Clue Technician.

Gee, aren't you creative!

Thats like the 10 millionth time I've heard that.

73

Chris

[KV6O]

NCT = No Clue Technician.

Nice. Any new ham, regardless of aptitude has "no clue" in your book.

Steve
KV6O

[N9MOQ]

I know my personal opinion is moot, but I do feel that they should have retained Morse as a requirement for Extra.

Although I agree with the world's decision to drop it as a requirement, I can understand why some might like a code test to still exist for those that feel they missed out on the opportunity to show they could do it.

Not to fear! There is still a test, and a certificate:

http://www.arrl.org/awards/


Evaluate your Morse code ability through the ARRL Code Proficiency program. Copy one of W1AW's qualifying runs (see W1AW schedule) and submit one minute of solid copy (legible), along with your $10 fee for a certificate, to HQ. Your submission will be checked directly against the official W1AW text, and if you pass, you'll get your initial Code Proficiency certificate. From then on, endorsement stickers, for a $7.50 charge, are issued for speeds up to 40 WPM. Non-hams and hams alike are eligible for the Code Proficiency program.


And you even get to pay a fee, just like with a real exam!


The one fault I find with this program, is that anyone could cheat, (use a code reader, etc) and then send in the results and get said certificate.

I came up with a way around this. One or more Hams that know code, should sit in with the potential applicant, and watch to see they actually are translating the code without cheating, and then sign a note, or the certificate when it arrives, that they are witnesses.

(Perhaps the ARRL could modify the rules so that one or more VEC examiners are needed to verify they witnessed the applicant for this certificate)

So no matter what class of license you have, you can choose what WPM speed you feel you need to prove to everyone else, then qualifiy for one of these certificates with witness signatures.


Another option, for those that don't like the ARRL, or paying $10, could just get a nearby Ham Radio Club to witness one translating code, and sign off on a piece of paper that they witnessed and verify that the person knows Morse Code at "X" WPM.

Better yet, is to not be concerned what other people think, or being able to prove that you know Morse Code, because we learn it for ourselves, not to prove anything to anyone else, right?

At least that's why I chose to learn it. It had nothing to do with using it on Ham Radio, I wanted to know it so that when I came across it in an old movie or old time radio program, that I could know what it said.

There used to be (don't know if it still exists) a telegraph display at the Fort Mackinac museum (which would repeat a programmed clickity clack on the actual telegraph) and the message included the Ham Radio callsign of a local Michigan ham! He must have helped make the telegraph part of the exhibit and included his callsign as an inside signature for those that could understand Morse Code.

THIS is why I learned the code! Not because of any code requirement.

But there are still ways to be certified, for those that find it important.

[K1CJS]

You may have to look a little, but there are still VE teams that will give the code test and give you a CSCE for passing it. Of course, you will have to pay the test fee. The only thing that CSCE is good for is proof you did pass the test--nothing else. The test hasn't been outlawed, just dropped for the general and extra license requirement.

[kc7gnm]

I noticed from the author of this thread's profile that he got interested in ham radio for a certain reason:

And then he became interested in Morse and studied and passed the test anyway!

Way to go, Moe!

Yeah and he went straight from nothing to extra. Goes to show you the instant gratification we are spawning today. Why can't people go from entry license and progress instead of going straight to extra? I think the FCC should have made it mandatory to start at Tech and you cannot upgrade for 6 months to General. Then after General you can't upgrade to extra for another 6 months. I bet folks would complain about the wait then too. :mad:

[KC9JIQ]

Yeah and he went straight from nothing to extra. Goes to show you the instant gratification we are spawning today. Why can't people go from entry license and progress instead of going straight to extra? I think the FCC should have made it mandatory to start at Tech and you cannot upgrade for 6 months to General. Then after General you can't upgrade to extra for another 6 months. I bet folks would complain about the wait then too. :mad:

well basically you get folks in for the No Code general and they say "what the hell" and take the Extra exam to see if they can pass.... somtimes they get lucky, so basically we got *barely* General Class ops, jumping right to extra!
hahaha, really incentive licensing needs to be done away with, what a joke.

That is the *reason* I'm not a extra, I feel I have not gotten my "feet wet" enough to even take those titles yet.

[wu8y]

And, on the flip side, someone with a Ph.D. EE, maybe specializing in RF, or signal processing, wouldn't be considered worthy because either a. he or she didn't sit the hallowed Morse test and/or b. hadn't been a ham long enough.

[kc7gnm]

well basically you get folks in for the No Code general and they say "what the hell" and take the Extra exam to see if they can pass.... somtimes they get lucky, so basically we got *barely* General Class ops, jumping right to extra!
hahaha, really incentive licensing needs to be done away with, what a joke.

That is the *reason* I'm not a extra, I feel I have not gotten my "feet wet" enough to even take those titles yet.

I started out as a No Code Tech back in 94 then after about a year I took the code test and became a tech+. After being in Germany for 3 years I upgraded to General in 2000. Then I finally upgraded in Jan 2007 to Extra right before they dropped the code. I took my time learning at each step and today you can go straight from Zero to Extra in one sitting. To me that is bad news for hams because now we have extras with no experience what so ever. These folks are also becoming VE's and giving tests that they really only know the answers to the questions and don't understand how to operate properly on the air.

I think the only reason the code test was dropped was because of big money in the sales of radios from the big manufacturers. They probably lobbied the FCC hard to drop it as I suspect they probably funded NCI.

I am not a believer in knowing code as I don't use it at all, but I do believe that we should have made a mandatory wait time between license classes to let folks get experience before becoming an extra class operator.

[kc7gnm]

And, on the flip side, someone with a Ph.D. EE, maybe specializing in RF, or signal processing, wouldn't be considered worthy because either a. he or she didn't sit the hallowed Morse test and/or b. hadn't been a ham long enough.

Never said that. Even someone with a PH.D. in RF or EE still probably will not know how to act properly on the air. Only experience and time can teach that. You cannot put that into a test.

[KA9VQF]

Pay no attention to the local inbreeding,or to someone who waited 13 years to upgrade from tech. All the sudden he is an authority,,,sheesh!


Now, just what makes you think I'm inbred?

[AB8XA]

Yeah and he went straight from nothing to extra...today you can go straight from Zero to Extra in one sitting.

From what I read, the waiting period for Extra was eliminated in 1977. Don't know what you were doing that year, but the OP was a Staff Sergeant working on, as well as teaching all vacuum-tube/klystron radio equipment, and digital systems with nixie tube readouts, made up of discrete solid-state components on circuit boards.

Even someone with a PH.D. in RF or EE still probably will not know how to act properly on the air.

So what? The class of license has nothing to do with learning and using accepted operating practices. That's published all over the 'net as well as on paper by those who wish to help newcomers, not cut them down to try to feed an ego tied way too tightly to a license class. Add to that a little common sense and listening, and this is nowhere near the problem you're trying to exaggerate it to be.

[kc7gnm]

So what? The class of license has nothing to do with learning and using accepted operating practices. That's published all over the 'net as well as on paper by those who wish to help newcomers, not cut them down to try to feed an ego tied way too tightly to a license class. Add to that a little common sense and listening, and this is nowhere near the problem you're trying to exaggerate it to be.

No it doesn't but you cannot tell me you can get on the air for the first time in the extra bands and expect to know what you are doing on the air. Nothing wrong with helping newcomers but your attitude of waiting until the code dropped to get your license shows that you wanted the easy way out and not actually work for your license.

[K7JEM]

No it doesn't but you cannot tell me you can get on the air for the first time in the extra bands and expect to know what you are doing on the air. Nothing wrong with helping newcomers but your attitude of waiting until the code dropped to get your license shows that you wanted the easy way out and not actually work for your license.

ALL of the bands are "extra" class available. 2M and 440 are used by lots of extras, but also by techs.

I don't understand why people automatically assume that others are "wanting an easy way out", by decisions that they make. HR is a hobby, and people are in it at different levels of knowledge, experience and ability.

The test is an extremely small part of being an HR op, sometimes we act as if it is the end-all of what we do, as opposed to being the gateway for entrance.

I don't expect or require that all hams should be on my level of knowledge or experience, if I did, it would be a very small hobby. I expect each ham to pass the requisite test that is available when they get their license, or upgrade.

What they do AFTER they get their license is much more important to me. Sometimes a half brain-dead oaf who could barely pass the test (but who can carry large batteries on FD) is more important that the intelligent ham who doesn't bother to come, or shows up and is unwilling, or unable to help where and when it is needed.

Joe

[KD8HMO]

ALL of the bands are "extra" class available. 2M and 440 are used by lots of extras, but also by techs.

I don't understand why people automatically assume that others are "wanting an easy way out", by decisions that they make. HR is a hobby, and people are in it at different levels of knowledge, experience and ability.

The test is an extremely small part of being an HR op, sometimes we act as if it is the end-all of what we do, as opposed to being the gateway for entrance.

I don't expect or require that all hams should be on my level of knowledge or experience, if I did, it would be a very small hobby. I expect each ham to pass the requisite test that is available when they get their license, or upgrade.

What they do AFTER they get their license is much more important to me. Sometimes a half brain-dead oaf who could barely pass the test (but who can carry large batteries on FD) is more important that the intelligent ham who doesn't bother to come, or shows up and is unwilling, or unable to help where and when it is needed.

Joe

But that "intelligent" ham thinks he is extra special because he can go "beep" "beep" "beep" on a radio...

[KA4DPO]

But that "intelligent" ham thinks he is extra special because he can go "beep" "beep" "beep" on a radio...

That's right. And the experienced ham understands what those beeps mean..:D

[N8UZE]

Originally Posted by K7JEM
ALL of the bands are "extra" class available. 2M and 440 are used by lots of extras, but also by techs.

I don't understand why people automatically assume that others are "wanting an easy way out", by decisions that they make. HR is a hobby, and people are in it at different levels of knowledge, experience and ability.

The test is an extremely small part of being an HR op, sometimes we act as if it is the end-all of what we do, as opposed to being the gateway for entrance.

I don't expect or require that all hams should be on my level of knowledge or experience, if I did, it would be a very small hobby. I expect each ham to pass the requisite test that is available when they get their license, or upgrade.

What they do AFTER they get their license is much more important to me. Sometimes a half brain-dead oaf who could barely pass the test (but who can carry large batteries on FD) is more important that the intelligent ham who doesn't bother to come, or shows up and is unwilling, or unable to help where and when it is needed.

Joe

But that "intelligent" ham thinks he is extra special because he can go "beep" "beep" "beep" on a radio...

www.NoCodeHams.Net
The Next Generation Of Ham Radio

RACES/ARES

NRA Member



Yet aren't you trying to show you are special and have a right to antagonize other hams by the subtitle of "No Code General" under your call sign and the the www.NoCodeHams.Net and the The Next Generation Of Ham Radio in your signature?

What does this prove? Why deliberately attempt to block yourself off from other hams this way? If you are polite to the "beepers", you may find that they have other information to share that you are interested in.

You can learn a lot by quietly and politely letting the old curmudgeons vent. Once they get past their venting, most are a goldmine of information and are often quite willing to help. Learning from them is a very effective way of getting them to mellow. Once they help you and learn that you are a pretty nice guy, they are often the first to defend you if someone else attacks you as a "rotten no code CBer" even though they may once have espoused the same belief.

[K7JEM]

Yet aren't you trying to show you are special and have a right to antagonize other hams by the subtitle of "No Code General" under your call sign and the the www.NoCodeHams.Net and the The Next Generation Of Ham Radio in your signature?

What does this prove? Why deliberately attempt to block yourself off from other hams this way? If you are polite to the "beepers", you may find that they have other information to share that you are interested in.

You can learn a lot by quietly and politely letting the old curmudgeons vent. Once they get past their venting, most are a goldmine of information and are often quite willing to help. Learning from them is a very effective way of getting them to mellow. Once they help you and learn that you are a pretty nice guy, they are often the first to defend you if someone else attacks you as a "rotten no code CBer" even though they may once have espoused the same belief.


Very good point. I've about had it with people on both sides of this thing who have to be "in your face". Just drop it and be a good ham, you will find the hobby more enjoyable.

Joe

[AB8XA]

...your attitude of waiting until the code dropped to get your license shows that you wanted the easy way out and not actually work for your license.

That's pretty funny coming from someone who waited until after the code test speeds were dropped to get his General and Extra. :rolleyes:

[KD8HMO]

Yet aren't you trying to show you are special and have a right to antagonize other hams by the subtitle of "No Code General" under your call sign and the the www.NoCodeHams.Net and the The Next Generation Of Ham Radio in your signature?

What does this prove? Why deliberately attempt to block yourself off from other hams this way? If you are polite to the "beepers", you may find that they have other information to share that you are interested in.

You can learn a lot by quietly and politely letting the old curmudgeons vent. Once they get past their venting, most are a goldmine of information and are often quite willing to help. Learning from them is a very effective way of getting them to mellow. Once they help you and learn that you are a pretty nice guy, they are often the first to defend you if someone else attacks you as a "rotten no code CBer" even though they may once have espoused the same belief.

Im sorry, I never said I was "special". But I am not going to take the insults and rudeness from some of these clowns because the FCC dropped the code requirement. I had no control over that. Im not going to be talked down too like i am 4 years old either. I earned my grey hair...

P.S. www.NoCodeHams.Net is in my sig line because it is a new website I have started. :)

[N8UZE]

Im sorry, I never said I was "special". But I am not going to take the insults and rudeness from some of these clowns because the FCC dropped the code requirement. I had no control over that. Im not going to be talked down too like i am 4 years old either. I earned my grey hair...

While you have earned our gray hair, a person needs to learn social interaction as part of that gray hair. Because your subtitle and signature appear to be an attempt to "get into people's faces", you are going to run into a lot of clowns simply because they are pushing back on the unsocial front you present.

The old adage of treating people like you would wish to be treated has a very high success rate. Note that this adage does not say "treat people like you would wish to be treated only if they are nice to you first".

Unless you are feeling insecure why get upset if they treat you like you are 4 years old. It's a reflection on them not you and your "pushing back" will only make it worse not better and will then antagonize those observing this who otherwise might not have had much of an opinion. It's much more productive to act in a curteous manner to the clowns. Those observing the interaction will then think you are an alright guy and that the other is indeed the clown you believe him to be.

You may think that your pushing back will only help or hurt you but it does not. It can hurt many others. People, being fallible, will take your actions to be typical of all people who did not code test. They will judge the next no code person they meet by your actions even though the person has an entirely different personality.

[WR8D]

This is really sad a *tradition* as Morse code kept the OM's picking on the no-coders, to the point that many QRZ threads were pages long about the pros and cons of mandatory 5 wpm testing.

Now the dust has settled, the last brawls are over, and those elite Generals and Extras are looking at their peers, the no code Generals and Extras, and crying that this hobby is turning into CB. But it falls on deaf ears, since many know-coders operate on the animal house nets on 75 meters.

The elite gets desperate, then they realized that no class they can get is safe from the inexperienced CB jargon newcomers, the Know Code Advanced operator down the road suddenly becomes a "ham radio god" and you are grouped in with those silly winlinkers and digital non CW freaks.


I go alone now, calling your name
After losing at the game
You took me by surprise
I didn't realize that you were laughing!

Not to be starting a pissing contest here om but it is attitudes like yours that will maintain this split in our ranks. I got licensed in 81 and never heard of elites..low codes this or that until you guys started coming along and doing what you do here with your comments. To me and most other amateurs, it matters not that you can work cw, work it fast or slow, or have no clue what those tones mean when you hear them. I run hot and then cold with it. I'll go through a spell of months that cw is all i work...then i'll not make a cw contact for months and work the digital modes and ssb. It's only a mode Clyde, one of which we all can enjoy

It's what comes out of your pie hole both here and on the air that will define what others think of you. This is what defines you as either a good or bad amateur operator. Now i suggest you drop this now i'm here and you're all going to pay attitude and get your self one of those fancy vanity calls to hide behind. The rest of us will never know the differance.

The mess on 75 has been there for some reason since we got the bandplan. You've heard nothing to date unless you were around in the 80's. There are those nowdays coming into the hobby using cb lango and seeming to be only glorified cbers. It's on 40 too and 10 meters is as we say eat up with them.

One comment for your digital none cw "freaks"comment.

I've worked the world here at the bottom of this solar cycle on psk31 and several of the other digital modes..while on differant bands. It's what ever floats ones boat but just because you can't hook up a sound card don't say bad things about others who enjoy it. It's amateur radio Clyde.

Nuff said you did your troll and got a dignified answer.

--... ...-- WR8D

[N8UZE]

P.S. www.NoCodeHams.Net is in my sig line because it is a new website I have started. :)

Can you not see that this is potentially antagonistic? It sounds as if anyone who has passed a code test might possibly be unwelcome. It sounds as if anyone who has pursued code proficiency under the new regulations might also be unwelcome. There are some of the new "no code" hams who chose to study code that can leave the long time "beepers" in the dust when it comes to proficiency.

[KD8HMO]

Can you not see that this is potentially antagonistic? It sounds as if anyone who has passed a code test might possibly be unwelcome. It sounds as if anyone who has pursued code proficiency under the new regulations might also be unwelcome. There are some of the new "no code" hams who chose to study code that can leave the long time "beepers" in the dust when it comes to proficiency.

Last time I checked, the 1st amendment was still sort of in place. Its no more antagonistic that sites like this one that allow the insults and personal attacks. I started that site so new "no-code" hams have a place to go where they will feel welcome and wont have to put up with being treated like 2nd rate doggy poo because they werent required to take a code test. The site is not anti-code, just anti bad - attitude...

[N8UZE]

Last time I checked, the 1st amendment was still sort of in place. Its no more antagonistic that sites like this one that allow the insults and personal attacks. I started that site so new "no-code" hams have a place to go where they will feel welcome and wont have to put up with being treated like 2nd rate doggy poo because they werent required to take a code test. The site is not anti-code, just anti bad - attitude...


Yes the 1st amendment is definitely in place and firmly protects people's rights to act like idiots. Just because one has a right to act like an idiot doesn't make it a particularly wise choice to do so.

There is a huge difference between the right to do something and the wisdom of doing something.

Why not name it something more appealing to all and make it plain that the board is strictly moderated (I have to assume at this point that is how you are keeping the bad attitudes out)

[KI6NNO]

I appreciate the work that people put into all of these great ham radio sites. However as a NCG myself, I've got to say that naming the URL www.NoCodeHams.net is a real putoff. To me, it comes across like "all you no code hams go here, so the code hams can have the rest of the ham sites." It might be worth at least considering what the other posters have been saying to you about your URL name choice.

73, Dave

[wa9cwx]

The assertion that AR is dumbed down by the deletion of the code requirement simply flies in the face of all the other things that a new amateur has to learn or has the opportunity to learn if he/she so chooses. Today I'm learning about Near Vertical Incidence Skywave, Automated Link Establishement, D-Star, APRS, etc., but since I may not choose to practice CW, I'm an example of the dumbing down of the hobby!

Now I know that you'll look up my callsign and see that I'm a no-code Extra. I got into AR as an emergency manager who needed to better understand it and successfully use it in emergency communications. I originally intended to just get my tech license, but decided that AR was fun, so I continued on and got my General and Extra. The general was pretty easy, but I would dearly love to see many of the folks who deride us newer guys take the Extra test without studying. I'm confident that the outcome would quiet down some of those who think that the new test is easy. In my case, not having an engineering or electrical background, I spent 1.5 hours a night for two months studying for the test and have four legal pads full of math problems that I worked to prove it. I passed my extra test with a 96%.

While our local ARES organization has a very robust program, CW is essentially ignored because everyone understands that focusing on a mode that requires substantial ongoing user training while providing such miniscule throughput is simply a waste of valuable resources.

Doug


Are you SERIOUS ?

Gee, about ten hours a week, for two months......:D

GIVE ME A BREAK.

Yes, that IS enough to pass the Extra today, without any previous knowlege of electronics........... THAT IS MY POINT.....

You clearly have no concept of the nature of the earlier test.

Frank

[KD8HMO]

I appreciate the work that people put into all of these great ham radio sites. However as a NCG myself, I've got to say that naming the URL www.NoCodeHams.net is a real putoff. To me, it comes across like "all you no code hams go here, so the code hams can have the rest of the ham sites." It might be worth at least considering what the other posters have been saying to you about your URL name choice.

73, Dave

Well, thats interesting. I have had several hams register already and a few of them even thanked me for starting that site... So far, no complaints about it. We are going to focus on positive aspects of ham radio there and rule no. 1 is to have FUN...

[N8ODF]

That's pretty funny coming from someone who waited until after the code test speeds were dropped to get his General and Extra. :rolleyes:


That is pretty funny....what a JackA$$...do as I say not as I do...a legend in his own mind....

[wa9cwx]

BTW,

What originaly opened my eyes to how sad things had become.....

I TOOK the sample tests here on QRZ for the Extra, AND EASILY PASSED, WITH NO STUDY TIME, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.

Now, I am not in any electronics field, have NOT studied anything IN electronics except for what few projects I engage in from time to time, or minor repairs I do. I read ER magazine, and page through QST each month, but my formal education, and continuing education, is NOT in electronics, nor has it ever been.

There is NO way I should be able to even come CLOSE to passing the highest class license exam.

My 'study time' for the 'Extra' ended about forty years ago.

Anyone who can pass a test for the highest level of achievment, that should reflect the toughest accepted standards for current knowlege, SHOULD be someone who is fresh and informed in that field. NOT someone who is experienced in the art, but someone who represents the current apex of knowlege. THAT is what the Extra represented 30 plus years ago....Not this drivel about a few hours spent reading a book, or playing with formulas on a notepad...

Sorry, but I miss the old days, when those who passed, where different than those who failed. Some where left behind, others were not.

Had nothing to do with elietism, just effort, determination, and self respect. Those qualities still exist in individuals, but the testing does nothing to reflect the difference anymore.

[KI6NNO]

Well, thats interesting. I have had several hams register already and a few of them even thanked me for starting that site... So far, no complaints about it. We are going to focus on positive aspects of ham radio there and rule no. 1 is to have FUN...

Right...

There are 4 posts in your general discussion forum, three of them in "The birth of a new site" http://www.nocodehams.net/index.php?topic=2.0, and two of the three bag on other HAM site(s):
I'm proud of the fact I live in a country where you can say what you want and not have to deal with any unfair harsh threatment in retrobution (Unlike a certain site we all know about but will remain unsaid for now).
"Good to see ya. I wondered where you went I hadn't seen you post lately in another unnamed group. I miss your humor over there. You used to crack me up! Good to see you in here.
Yep, sounds like FUN to me... not! That's just the reverse of what sometimes happens here. How is that any better? :confused:

73, Dave

[wm3o]

when my youngest son gets his ticket will he have to put up with the prejudices of the "old guard" who had to take element 1 - he was born AFTER the requirement was eliminated, but i'm sure some smart guys will talk smack about him waiting to get licensed so he wouldn't have to learn the code.

my oldest is now able to comprehend what he is reading and i'll be prepping him to get his ticket this fall - i'm sure he'll get called out on his age, never mind he assembled a beam (including the pop rivets on the elements) at age 3, help erect several antennas, and helped build a SteppIR with minimal supervision.

keep on judging and applying those prejudices. yeah, stay classy.

-Steve, WM3O

[KI4RVH]

BTW,

What originaly opened my eyes to how sad things had become.....

I TOOK the sample tests here on QRZ for the Extra, AND EASILY PASSED, WITH NO STUDY TIME, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.

Now, I am not in any electronics field, have NOT studied anything IN electronics except for what few projects I engage in from time to time, or minor repairs I do. I read ER magazine, and page through QST each month, but my formal education, and continuing education, is NOT in electronics, nor has it ever been.

There is NO way I should be able to even come CLOSE to passing the highest class license exam.

My 'study time' for the 'Extra' ended about forty years ago.



Why should you not be able to pass it? You've been a ham for 40 years and you are an Extra. You've got on the job training. If you think it should be so hard that a ham of 40 years that passed the extra can't pass it, who do you think would be able to pass it?

73

Chris

[KD8HMO]

Right...

There are 4 posts in your general discussion forum, three of them in "The birth of a new site" http://www.nocodehams.net/index.php?topic=2.0, and two of the three bag on other HAM site(s):


Yep, sounds like FUN to me... not! That's just the reverse of what sometimes happens here. How is that any better? :confused:

73, Dave

Well lets see, the site has only been operational for about 2 days so yes it takes time. If you arent interested in participating thats fine too. Dont really need you there with that attitude.

[K7JEM]

There is NO way I should be able to even come CLOSE to passing the highest class license exam.



But you hold the highest class of license, why wouldn't you be able to pass today's even easier test?

Did you suddenly get stupid over the years, or forget the things you learned to pass the extra years ago?

The goal is not to pass the test, then forget everything. It is to continue learning and advancing. If you have been a ham for 30 years, and an extra for most of those, people would expect you to be able to pass the test without studying.

HR has very little to do with the test. Those that think it does have a lot to learn.

Joe

[wa9cwx]

Steve,

I am very happy about your youngest son, and helping him to get his ticket is an excellent way to interact, and I am quite sure he will be welcomed into the hobby...By the way, are you a fan of e. e. cummings?

Frank

[KI6NNO]

Well lets see, the site has only been operational for about 2 days so yes it takes time. If you arent interested in participating thats fine too. Dont really need you there with that attitude.

What attitude? I'm only pointing out how your site is putting off at least one NCG (as others have pointed out that might be the case) because of your URL name choice, and that your site members are behaving not a bit better than the few no-code bashing elitists here. If I'm not welcome on your site because of my opinions on QRZ, then I certainly don't have the need to patronize your site. It's clear from what you're saying here that you're not open to diverse opinions of your future clientele anyway.

I hope that "The Next Generation of Ham Radio" isn't exclusionary of other Hams simply because their opinion differs from your own. That's absolutely not the definition of the hobby that I enjoy today.

73, Dave

[N8CPA]

I wonder how many people calling others-usually those who know and use Morse--elitsits pitch royal oozers about immigrants who refuse to learn English.

[kg4kww]

When will you people stop crying over CW.
We had the funeral, ok. :D

[KI4RVH]

I wonder how many people calling others-usually those who know and use Morse--elitsits pitch royal oozers about immigrants who refuse to learn English.

In my Opinion, I don't think thats a fair comparison. No one is going to the CW bands on USB and saying no abla CW, please switch to voice. I like CW and I'm trying to get more proficient at it, but you're comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

73

Chris

[wa9cwx]

When will you people stop crying over CW.
We had the funeral, ok. :D

No, we just had the DNR ruling......

YOU should know the difference...! :D

Frank :)

[ab9lz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KD8HMO
Well lets see, the site has only been operational for about 2 days so yes it takes time. If you arent interested in participating thats fine too. Dont really need you there with that attitude


What attitude? I'm only pointing out how your site is putting off at least one NCG (as others have pointed out that might be the case) because of your URL name choice, and that your site members are behaving not a bit better than the few no-code bashing elitists here. If I'm not welcome on your site because of my opinions on QRZ, then I certainly don't have the need to patronize your site. It's clear from what you're saying here that you're not open to diverse opinions of your future clientele anyway.

I hope that "The Next Generation of Ham Radio" isn't exclusionary of other Hams simply because their opinion differs from your own. That's absolutely not the definition of the hobby that I enjoy today.

73, Dave

Mr. MO's problem seems to lie with the fact that no matter how hard he whines, he just can't get the community to see things his way. I suspect he couldn't get the CB'rs to see things his way either, so we are stuck with him by virtue of a call sign.

73 m/4

73 m/4

[k4kyv]

The real test will be at renewal time of those licenses.


But I don't hear much of a difference from before when I tune across the bands. Like previous attempts to "inject new blood" into amateur radio, this didn't generate the hoped-for hoards of active newcomers to amateur ranks.

[WW3QB]

If you look at the VP6DX QSO statistics at http://ducie2008.dl1mgb.com/qsostatistics/index.php you'll see that the number of CW and SSB QSOs are nearly the same at 85,511 and 85,651. CW seems to be very popular still.

[K1MDC]

But I don't hear much of a difference from before when I tune across the bands. Like previous attempts to "inject new blood" into amateur radio, this didn't generate the hoped-for hoards of active newcomers to amateur ranks.

More importantly, it didn't turn amateur radio into CB, either. Now, to convince people that the world didn't actually end a year ago...

[K1CJS]

well basically you get folks in for the No Code general and they say "what the hell" and take the Extra exam to see if they can pass.... somtimes they get lucky, so basically we got *barely* General Class ops, jumping right to extra!
hahaha, really incentive licensing needs to be done away with, what a joke.

That is the *reason* I'm not a extra, I feel I have not gotten my "feet wet" enough to even take those titles yet.

Amen, brother. I feel the same way. Until I understand the materials and can 'do the math' I won't try the upgrade either.

[AB8XA]

Like previous attempts to "inject new blood" into amateur radio, this didn't generate the hoped-for hoards of active newcomers to amateur ranks.

The numbers don't support that position, but don't disprove it either.

In the year prior to this past year, over 7,000 licenses due for renewal didn't renew for one reason or another (went SK or left the hobby during their license period) and these were not offset by new licenses.

You certainly can hypothesize that this past year, everyone due for renewal renewed (no one went SK or left the hobby during their license period) and so there was no hoard of newcomers, only a few hundred.

Or you can hypothesize that this past year, approximately the same number as the previous year didn't renew, but this year there were 8,000 more new licenses than the previous year.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

HamData.com puts "New Hams" at about 27,000 this past year. Their web page I saved on 23 Feb 2007 put "New Hams" at about 23,000 for the year prior to the past year. So if the HamData.com numbers have merit, there were

1) about 4,000 more new hams this past year than in the year prior, and

2) about 4,000 fewer hams not renewing this past year than in the year prior.

Whether that meets any definition of "hoard" I don't know, but 4,000 more new hams and 4,000 more old hams staying around to mentor them sounds like a pretty good thing to me.

[k9xr]

I don't remember where it was, but I saw a list that the FCC put out on expired amateur licenses. One thing that I noticed was that a big line of KB9 technician class licenses had expired. There were so many in close order that I don't believe they were all Silent Keys.

I have to believe that most of them had to be from folks that just lost interest in the hobby. I was really surprised at the numbers. If anyone knows where this site is I would appreciate if you would let me know. I usually bookmark the interesting ones, but missed this time.

[kc7gnm]

Yet aren't you trying to show you are special and have a right to antagonize other hams by the subtitle of "No Code General" under your call sign and the the www.NoCodeHams.Net (http://www.NoCodeHams.Net) and the The Next Generation Of Ham Radio in your signature?

What does this prove? Why deliberately attempt to block yourself off from other hams this way? If you are polite to the "beepers", you may find that they have other information to share that you are interested in.

You can learn a lot by quietly and politely letting the old curmudgeons vent. Once they get past their venting, most are a goldmine of information and are often quite willing to help. Learning from them is a very effective way of getting them to mellow. Once they help you and learn that you are a pretty nice guy, they are often the first to defend you if someone else attacks you as a "rotten no code CBer" even though they may once have espoused the same belief.

Nah those folks don't need any help. They were fine memorizing the test questions to pass the test but too lazy to study the code. I myself don't use code and probably could not pass the code test to save my life but I did take it and did pass it years ago only because I wasn't a lazy bum and wanted to upgrade and gain more experience. I had elmers that helped me along the way but the problem is folks like that guy don't want or need our help. They think they can pass a test and key up a mike on HF without actually working their way up the ladder. Now do I want the code test back? No but hams that put the "no code general" under their calls are just asking for it.

[kc7gnm]

That's pretty funny coming from someone who waited until after the code test speeds were dropped to get his General and Extra. :rolleyes:

You have no clue. I was studying and got up to 10 wpm when they decided to drop the code. If you check I upgraded to General right after the code drop in 2000 but didn't upgrade to extra until 2007. I could have done that immediately but I waited. I was working on my code speed but only to pass the test and if the 13 and 20 had still been around I probably would have taken the test and passed it. I have never complained about the code speed one time. I just don't like code and only passed it to advance. Next time get your facts straight before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

[kc7gnm]

I appreciate the work that people put into all of these great ham radio sites. However as a NCG myself, I've got to say that naming the URL www.NoCodeHams.net (http://www.NoCodeHams.net) is a real putoff. To me, it comes across like "all you no code hams go here, so the code hams can have the rest of the ham sites." It might be worth at least considering what the other posters have been saying to you about your URL name choice.

73, Dave

You are not a NCG. You are a general class operator. Does it say No Code on your license? Your attitude is what some of these guys need to follow. You have the right attitude and are not flaunting it like some do. I would be honored to have a QSO with you anytime.

[kc7gnm]

But you hold the highest class of license, why wouldn't you be able to pass today's even easier test?

Did you suddenly get stupid over the years, or forget the things you learned to pass the extra years ago?

The goal is not to pass the test, then forget everything. It is to continue learning and advancing. If you have been a ham for 30 years, and an extra for most of those, people would expect you to be able to pass the test without studying.

HR has very little to do with the test. Those that think it does have a lot to learn.

Joe


Joe you beat me to this one. I was going to say the same thing. If he failed the test then he should turn in his license because he apparently hasn't learned anything in the last 30 years.

[AB8XA]

You have no clue. I was studying and got up to 10 wpm when they decided to drop the code. If you check I upgraded to General right after the code drop in 2000 but didn't upgrade to extra until 2007. I could have done that immediately but I waited. I was working on my code speed but only to pass the test and if the 13 and 20 had still been around I probably would have taken the test and passed it. I have never complained about the code speed one time. I just don't like code and only passed it to advance. Next time get your facts straight before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. My facts ARE straight... you waited until the code speed dropped before taking the General. That IS a fact. As you point out, you seemingly weren't working too hard towards Extra either, dragging it out for seven years. Looks like you didn't want it badly enough even without the 20 wpm.

Maybe you'd be better off leaving your foot in your mouth next time you think about accusing a new ham of not wanting to work for what he achieved.

[kc7gnm]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. My facts ARE straight... you waited until the code speed dropped before taking the General. That IS a fact. As you point out, you seemingly weren't working too hard towards Extra either, dragging it out for seven years. Looks like you didn't want it badly enough even without the 20 wpm.

Maybe you'd be better off leaving your foot in your mouth next time you think about accusing a new ham of not wanting to work for what he achieved.

No sense in talking to you because you are being plain stupid.

At least I decided to become a ham before the code went away unlike what you state on your profile page.

I got interested in ham radio when I read in the Dec 15th news the FCC was dropping the code test. Originally, the plan was to become a no-code Extra since I was a radio technician some 30 years ago. On New Years Eve, Barb let me order a little Icom IC-718 to listen to and keep me motivated while studying. And a funny thing happened.

[K7JEM]

Why don't both of you guys give it a rest?

Neither one of you are 20wpm extras who took their test in front of the mean FCC person, so you both fall short.

It's silly to argue that one took a 5wpm test, and the other took none, not much real difference.

You're either both real hams, or both pathetic losers. Take your pick.

Joe

[ke4myw]

Well here we are again on another stupid code-nocode post. Like my 9 year old son says to me sometimes BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Where did this crap of no-code general and no-code extra come from. Seems like to me when you get your license the FCC calls it general or extra and there is nothing about code or no-code on it. Our problem is not the code, its needing operators that will actually get on the air and operate. Our county has nearly three hundred licensed operators and only about 25 or 30 regularly get on the air. Some of you have so many posts how do you have time to operate. I had rather be on the air than whining and moaning on the stupid computer. If you love code so much then use it and have fun. I swear you sound like a bunch of old women. Grow up, get over it, get on the air. If you don't want to talk to me fine stay on cw bands but they want be safe for long because very shortly I will be joining them. If you want to bitch to someone then bitch to the slackers that are not operating and not the new generals, at least they are on the air and participating. :rolleyes:

[wa9cwx]

Joe you beat me to this one. I was going to say the same thing. If he failed the test then he should turn in his license because he apparently hasn't learned anything in the last 30 years.

:)

Perhaps re-reading my comments would help .

It is MY opinion, that a test for the highest class of license should represent the apex of current knowlege. Passable by someone who is UP TO DATE in that, PLUS the BASICS.
Almost NO ONE, in any field, can pass that type of test after 40 years, even if they ARE active in it ( I am NOT an electronics tech, let alone any type of engineer)

Ask your family doctor, if HE can pass his basic med boards after 40 years, he will just laugh. He has knowlege, understanding, maybe even wisdom, but his ability to be up on all of the basics, PLUS the latest in the textbooks, is something that no longer is needed at the same level of reproducability as it was when he TOOK those boards.
He needed that as a foundation, he does NOT need that to do his job.

Same with a ham ticket, at least in that sense.

I passed the silly current tests. PERIOD.

That was the test for the highest class of license.
I am no way as sharp in anything in ham radio as I was 40 years ago. YES, I AM more experienced. I may know more practical things, but no way should that general type of familiarity be ENOUGH to PASS the Extra TEST.
That knowlege, at the depth required for the test, was needed to have a foundation for the understanding that gradually came LATER.

When I passed the FIRST time, in 1968, there were sure a lot of guys who WANTED to pass, but at the time, there were about one thousand people in the country who actualy DID have the Extra. There where a WHOLE bunch who were flunking it.

To put it in perspective.

I don't think anyone who was serious flunked the Novice.
LOTS of guys did not make Technician, and with the Novice unrenewable after one year, THEY were unhappy.

Lots of people never made it passed novice.

Then there were the Techs.
MOST of my buddies were Techs.
A FEW of them were sharp as can be in electronics, but never cared for code.
The General was the same test as Tech, it was fairly technical, and was considered the 'standard' license.

When the FCC introduced the incentive program (ARRL's), the Advanced was re-introduced. A LOT of guys did NOT pass from general to Advanced right away.
The technical types DID. One of my friends became an Advanced right away.

The Extra presented the final hurdle.

It had been dumbed down for incentive licensing.

It WAS essay at first.

When I took it, it was no longer an essay test, but there were MANY trick type questions. The answers were VERY close, sometimes only a decimal place of difference, sometimes a value nomanclature, sometimes a close series of values. There were virtually NO obvious 'wrong' answers, no amount of 'just not being stupid', could get you through.

Having JUST experience wouldn't do it, having JUST a good memory wouldn't do it, you had to have at least a working understanding of what was going on to pass. There was no such thing as memorizing the 'test'.

In the tests I took on QRZ, having a general knowlege of radio, some common sense, and the ability to not be stupid for awhile, or any combination of two out of those three, could get you through the questions.

Not so 30 years ago.

I won't even GO to the issue of the code requirement and ham tickets.

Suffice it to say I NEVER worked CW as a novice, strictly AM voice.
I had a LONG road to travel, but I did get my commercial CW license as a teenager.... While doing a LOT of other activities, like working part time AND being a full time college student.

The actual time between WANTING my Extra, and finally GETTING it, was about 2 years, (from 1966 to late '68) the study time was interspersed with all other activity, but it SURE took a LOT of effort over those two years. ( I passed my General in '65 and got the Advanced in early '68)
In addition, to get my handwritten code speed up, I spent a LOT of practice time on 20 meters, Plus my own self made code tapes. The commercial test was coded groups, NOT words, plus plain text at a higher speed. (either 20 or 25 WPM hand copy)

Frank

[kf4vgx]

K7JEM, Why don't both of you guys give it a rest?

Neither one of you are 20wpm extras who took their test in front of the mean FCC person, so you both fall short.

It's silly to argue that one took a 5wpm test, and the other took none, not much real difference.

You're either both real hams, or both pathetic losers. Take your pick.

Joe
...


Is easily noticed.

[K7JEM]

:)

Perhaps re-reading my comments would help .

It is MY opinion, that a test for the highest class of license should represent the apex of current knowlege. Passable by someone who is UP TO DATE in that, PLUS the BASICS.
Almost NO ONE, in any field, can pass that type of test after 40 years, even if they ARE active in it ( I am NOT an electronics tech, let alone any type of engineer)

Ask your family doctor, if HE can pass his basic med boards after 40 years, he will just laugh. He has knowlege, understanding, maybe even wisdom, but his ability to be up on all of the basics, PLUS the latest in the textbooks, is something that no longer is needed at the same level of reproducability as it was when he TOOK those boards.
He needed that as a foundation, he does NOT need that to do his job.

Same with a ham ticket, at least in that sense.

I passed the silly current tests. PERIOD.

That was the test for the highest class of license.
I am no way as sharp in anything in ham radio as I was 40 years ago. YES, I AM more experienced. I may know more practical things, but no way should that general type of familiarity be ENOUGH to PASS the Extra TEST.
That knowlege, at the depth required for the test, was needed to have a foundation for the understanding that gradually came LATER.

When I passed the FIRST time, in 1968, there were sure a lot of guys who WANTED to pass, but at the time, there were about one thousand people in the country who actualy DID have the Extra. There where a WHOLE bunch who were flunking it.

To put it in perspective.

I don't think anyone who was serious flunked the Novice.
LOTS of guys did not make Technician, and with the Novice unrenewable after one year, THEY were unhappy.

Lots of people never made it passed novice.

Then there were the Techs.
MOST of my buddies were Techs.
A FEW of them were sharp as can be in electronics, but never cared for code.
The General was the same test as Tech, it was fairly technical, and was considered the 'standard' license.

When the FCC introduced the incentive program (ARRL's), the Advanced was re-introduced. A LOT of guys did NOT pass from general to Advanced right away.
The technical types DID. One of my friends became an Advanced right away.

The Extra presented the final hurdle.

It had been dumbed down for incentive licensing.

It WAS essay at first.

When I took it, it was no longer an essay test, but there were MANY trick type questions. The answers were VERY close, sometimes only a decimal place of difference, sometimes a value nomanclature, sometimes a close series of values. There were virtually NO obvious 'wrong' answers, no amount of 'just not being stupid', could get you through.

Having JUST experience wouldn't do it, having JUST a good memory wouldn't do it, you had to have at least a working understanding of what was going on to pass. There was no such thing as memorizing the 'test'.

In the tests I took on QRZ, having a general knowlege of radio, some common sense, and the ability to not be stupid for awhile, or any combination of two out of those three, could get you through the questions.

Not so 30 years ago.

I won't even GO to the issue of the code requirement and ham tickets.

Suffice it to say I NEVER worked CW as a novice, strictly AM voice.
I had a LONG road to travel, but I did get my commercial CW license as a teenager.... While doing a LOT of other activities, like working part time AND being a full time college student.

The actual time between WANTING my Extra, and finally GETTING it, was about 2 years, the study time was interspersed with all other activity, but it SURE took a LOT of effort over those two years.
In addition, to get my handwritten code speed up, I spent a LOT of practice time on 20 meters, Plus my own self made code tapes. The commercial test was coded groups, NOT words, plus plain text at a higher speed. (either 20 or 25 WPM hand copy)

Frank

Frank, you have a very bizarre perception of reality. HR is a hobby, it can't be compared to engineering, or the family doctor.

IF you wouldn't be able to pass today's extra test, I would suggest that you should turn in your license, because that would be saying that you want the privs because you passed the test some 40 years ago, but haven't got a clue today.

The fact that you can pass today's extra test puts you right on the level with the new extras, who had to pass that test. That's as it should be.

If this were anything serious we were doing, the gov't would require us to retest on certain intervals to prove that we are still "worthy". The fact is, a person that took the extra test 40 years ago (or yesterday) never has to prove again that he has that knowledge. He could be a mental vegetable, or overcome with dementia, yet the FCC would not remove his license.

Or he could learn and grow, and develop his abilities and talents. It really doesn't matter as far as your license class goes. There are brilliant extras, and demented extras. But they both have the license.

Joe

[KI4PEQ]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.

No, you are being the north end of a southbound horse. So anyone who didn't learn Morse and pass the test in say, seven months, to doesn't have "guts"? You just won't give it up, will you? Just look up and the information is staring at you. That sounds a lot like that dubious database that states that anyone who made General or Extra after February 2007 has no code speed. KY5U/AG4YO liked to bring up that BS "authority" a lot too. The premise is logically flawed.

I didn't change the rules. I took the test that I was offered. I was as amazed and shocked that the FCC dropped the requirement, especially after hearing only two months before advice from an FCC official that those who wanted to upgrade better study the code.

But I should have learned code sooner. I should have DEMANDED an Element 1 test, whether it was mandatory or not. All to prove my manhood and intestinal fortitude to the likes of you.

Give it a freaking rest already. I'll send and receive Morse at a speed you consider 'worthy' when I am darned good and ready. I don't have to prove anything to YOU or your self-anointed superior keepers of the amateur flame. I do have other interests and pursuits that take up my time. In short, I do have a life.

This code-no code garbage is a lot like a schoolyard peeing match. I personally have no interest in the size of your willie. Quit whipping it out before some little bird comes along and pecks it off.

[wa9cwx]

Joe, not sure what your talking about, neither am I......:D :p

Your doctor is NOT retested, neither is an engineer, nor is ham radio just a hobby.

Nowhere is it referred to in any government document as a hobby.

Dumbing down , however, has not only MADE it a hobby, but virtually insured its' hobby status.

It used to be called a service, and BESIDES being a hobby to us, it did serve another purpose.

In any case, Joe, have a nice day.
Your reality NEEDS it, I suspect.

:)

[kg4kww]

More phone spectrum needs to be given on 40m, 17m and 12m

[KI4PEQ]

Nah those folks don't need any help. They were fine memorizing the test questions to pass the test but too lazy to study the code. I myself don't use code and probably could not pass the code test to save my life but I did take it and did pass it years ago only because I wasn't a lazy bum and wanted to upgrade and gain more experience. I had elmers that helped me along the way but the problem is folks like that guy don't want or need our help. They think they can pass a test and key up a mike on HF without actually working their way up the ladder. Now do I want the code test back? No but hams that put the "no code general" under their calls are just asking for it.

I invite you to take a length of rope, tie it to the nearest tree branch, and then relieve your bladder on said rope.

Make sure it is of sufficient length to hang yourself afterward. The better to end your existence, made miserable by those who "didn't have it as rough as I did" Wahhhhh! Cry me a river.

There is a word for persons who chastise others for not performing certain tasks when they themselves no longer practice. It's called "hypocrite".

If the shoe fits, station...wear it.

[ai4ep]

PEQ --- anything else ?

You seem to be upset about something, telling me off and now telling another licensed amateur off, all within the past 24 hours.

Maybe you should be studying to become an EXTRA class operator...since your own profile says you are a GENERAL, and been that way for several months.

Perhaps some one should P M , and give him some pointers on other things he can fuss about.

Have a good day.
AI4EP (Robert)

[K7JEM]

Joe, not sure what your talking about, neither am I......:D :p

Your doctor is NOT retested, neither is an engineer, nor is ham radio just a hobby.

Nowhere is it referred to in any government document as a hobby.

Dumbing down , however, has not only MADE it a hobby, but virtually insured its' hobby status.

It used to be called a service, and BESIDES being a hobby to us, it did serve another purpose.

In any case, Joe, have a nice day.
Your reality NEEDS it, I suspect.

:)

In any case, HR IS a hobby. To deny that is to deny reality. Only a whacker thinks it is a "service" in the sense of the word that we are to give service.

The only "dumbing down" is being done by some old fools (and new ones) who want to differentiate licensees based on when they took the test, or what test they took. You seem to be one of these people.

The doctor and engineer reference was brought up by you, I was only repeating it. They are not comparable things. The amount of study and testing EVER required for ANY HR license cannot be compared to years of full time study.

A HR license test might be able to be compared to a junior high mid-term exam. But you don't hear adults going around bragging about that, or the fact that they graduated eighth grade, which is by far a more challenging thing.

No, in order for some hams to feel good, they have to feel that they are somehow superior to other hams. Part of that is in "putting down" those hams who didn't do things exactly as you did. Again you and others qualify under that also.

That is the main reason we have so many "CB" threads on this board. By bringing these things up, hams seem to think they are superior.

Old generals rag on new generals, old extras complain about newer extras.

Now we have extras for less than 7 years complaining about the newest extras, where does it all end?

Joe

[KD4LEI]

Anyone? Anyone?

http://othersideoftheplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/jedi_squirrel.jpg

[KI4RVH]

PEQ --- anything else ?

You seem to be upset about something, telling me off and now telling another licensed amateur off, all within the past 24 hours.

AI4EP (Robert)

Well you do have a target on you!:D

73

Chris

[KA9VQF]

I’m still wondering where he finds the license upgrade information.

And just how he knows I’m inbred or not.

[KD4LEI]

No matter how we try to keep threads like this away from the forums, they will always be there, lurking in the shadows.

They're waiting, waiting to pounce and (with an evil, sinister laugh) go Mwwaaaahahahaha!!!! I'm back!!!!

http://othersideoftheplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/squirrel_sith_lightning.jpg

[KI4RVH]

And just how he knows I’m inbred or not.

I had a dog that was inbred. His daddy was his mommas son. He had one ear really bigger than the other. Maybe he checked your ears? You got a pic on your website?

73

Chris

[ne8q]

Y'know, for the longest time, I would see these threads, and sigh and ignore them. I've realized, though, that maybe they do have a purpose. It's like turning on the porch light to attract those I'd most likely want on my ignore list.

[kc7gnm]

I’m still wondering where he finds the license upgrade information.

And just how he knows I’m inbred or not.\

Very easy. N4MC's vanity callsign database is very comprehensive. Here is your info from that database.

You were a Novice from 1986-1992. On 5/18/93 you became a Tech and in 95 it changed to Tech+. On 7/16/03 you became a General which is what you are today. Not very hard to look up info and that database is pretty good up til about 1980. Before that it is hard to get data.

[ke4myw]

KD4LEI - Yours are the two best posts on this whole thread.

Funny as %#!*

[N8CPA]

In my Opinion, I don't think thats a fair comparison. No one is going to the CW bands on USB and saying no abla CW, please switch to voice. I like CW and I'm trying to get more proficient at it, but you're comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

73

Chris

In my opinion, it depends when you were licensed. For many of us, licensed before '91, Morse is the native language of our Amateur Radio experience, part of what distinguishes us from merely utilitarian radio services. The long term effects of dropping it are yet to be seen. But if listening to Amateur repeaters and CB is any indication, it doesn't look good--except in the CW subbands, where Amateur Radio is still speaking its native language.

[w4brf]

No, you are being the north end of a southbound horse. So anyone who didn't learn Morse and pass the test in say, seven months, to doesn't have "guts"? You just won't give it up, will you? Just look up and the information is staring at you. That sounds a lot like that dubious database that states that anyone who made General or Extra after February 2007 has no code speed. KY5U/AG4YO liked to bring up that BS "authority" a lot too. The premise is logically flawed.

I didn't change the rules. I took the test that I was offered. I was as amazed and shocked that the FCC dropped the requirement, especially after hearing only two months before advice from an FCC official that those who wanted to upgrade better study the code.

But I should have learned code sooner. I should have DEMANDED an Element 1 test, whether it was mandatory or not. All to prove my manhood and intestinal fortitude to the likes of you.

Give it a freaking rest already. I'll send and receive Morse at a speed you consider 'worthy' when I am darned good and ready. I don't have to prove anything to YOU or your self-anointed superior keepers of the amateur flame. I do have other interests and pursuits that take up my time. In short, I do have a life.

This code-no code garbage is a lot like a schoolyard peeing match. I personally have no interest in the size of your willie. Quit whipping it out before some little bird comes along and pecks it off.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------( Richard tell them about it you got that Right on good luck to you, Bill w4brf :)

[KA9VQF]

\

Very easy. N4MC's vanity callsign database is very comprehensive. Here is your info from that database.

You were a Novice from 1986-1992. On 5/18/93 you became a Tech and in 95 it changed to Tech+. On 7/16/03 you became a General which is what you are today. Not very hard to look up info and that database is pretty good up til about 1980. Before that it is hard to get data.

AH HA !

I vaguely remember using that site myself now. I needed to know the date of my original license for a contest exchange.

Now,… how does he know my linage?

As I happens I and several many other family members have done some genealogy over the last fillintheblank years and none of my own family’s married couple’s have been closer than second cousin.

We really don’t know before about 400 years ago. Even then the old records are somewhat questionable from around 200 years ago, but one of my cousins found a really old bible in Denmark with a hand written linage in the back of it. It says my dad’s side goes back to Sorin the red.

One of my mom’s sisters ended up being married to her first cousin shortly after world war II ended, but they didn’t find out they were related at all until long after they had already had a family.

[KI4ODO]

.......congradulation to those who have upgraded without learning cw first....too bad you didnt have the guts to learn it back when it was a requirement.

every one knows who you are....just a simple callsign look up and there the information is...looking straight at you.


see...I was nice. :) sarcastic, but nice about it.

Utter ignorance lol. It's like saying that a hunter has no guts because they don't want to learn archery. Or a fisherman has no guts because they don't want to learn fly fishing.

I happen to use CW almost exclusively on HF. Look at my call sign. Under this "logic" you would never know that. Out of every page in my HF log book, there may be one or two entries that are not CW. Plus there are several new upgrades in my club who want to learn and use CW because it's fun. Not just to get a ticket and then forget it forever like many have in the past. So who has guts? The guy who learns it when he doesn't have to, and uses it in a proficient way, or the guy who does the minimum to get a ticket, then never uses it again??? When it was required this happened a lot. Guys would learn their 5wpm, struggle through, and never think about CW again.
This argument is so very old and proven to be more hype and boo hooing than anything else.

I will add this. I would have prefurred that they keep the code requirement. CW is part of ham radio. It should be learned at least to a point just like setting up a station or operating an HF rig properly. But what's done is done. I WILL NOT be-little or disrespect my fellow hams because of the FCC's decision.

[KD8HMO]

I never did see the point of forcing people to learn morse code. I like it just the way it is now. Its a legal mode. If you want to learn it and use it, knock yourself out. Whats the point of struggling through 5 wpm and then never using it again? Personally, I dont see what the fuss is about. Morse code is not a "lid" filter. I was listening on 14.275 - 14.285 the other evening and some "professional" hams were keying up over some canadian ham (i admit that the canadian was not the sharpest knife in the drawer) playing the american national anthem. Before hams knock other services, they need to sweep their own doorstep first...

[KI4ODO]

Here is the deal in my opinion. If we want to encourage the use of CW why not approach it this way?

CW IS FUN!!!!!! Try it. On this mode everyone around the globe speaks the same language. It's rich in history. It's a skill that keeps your interest because you strive to always improve. You can use very, very low power from a rig that will fit into an Altoids box. Or use a key that's older than your grandparents lol. There is so much nostalgia to it. It's a great way to unwind after a stressful day. It's just a great mode. Tell you what, I'll help you get started and help you practice.

Would this not be a good way to approach the CW issue?

[KD8HMO]

Here is the deal in my opinion. If we want to encourage the use of CW why not approach it this way?

CW IS FUN!!!!!! Try it. On this mode everyone around the globe speaks the same language. It's rich in history. It's a skill that keeps your interest because you strive to always improve. You can use very, very low power from a rig that will fit into an Altoids box. It's just a great mode. Tell you what, I'll help you get started and help you practice.

Would this not be a good way to approach the CW issue?

This is exactly the way it should be done. Not by being a dufus and insulting people on a message board...

[W7BDN]

The one thing I can say for certain after mucking through 11 pages of this thread is that I'm glad behaviour on the radio in no way resembles behaviour on the internet. I was only introduced to AR at the beginning of last year. I studied hard and was able to pass both technician and general in one sitting, and no one I've ever met on the air or in person has said anything about it. The only time code has even come up as a subject is when I've asked questions about it, and the responses were always civil and sincere. I am a little interested, so I may in fact learn it someday. It's not a priority, though, nor is it likely to be. The QRM on the internet is by far the most negative thing I've experienced about this hobby so far - If the activity on the bands resembled this mess in any way I'd sell my radios tomorrow. Fortunately I'm having loads of fun. You'll probably have to put up with me for quite awhile. I'm studying for Extra and building some new HF antennas, so you'll soon have to suffer my presence on 75 as well. Since I've had nothing but excellent treatment on the HF bands (except for my 'introduction' to VE7KFM yesterday evening, but that's a different story) I can only assume that the most negative aspects spend far more time posting here than they do on the radio. Maybe that's a good thing. Sorry I didn't get involved in AR sooner, but that regret has nothing whatsoever to do with not having had to take a code test.

Just a small observation from a dumbed-down, lazy, no-code, johnny-come-lately, CBer (I had one back in the 80's), ruining the hobby for everyone, ... Oh yeah - and HAPPY TO BE IN AR General Operator.

73s

Bruce
W7BDN

[N2RJ]

It's silly to argue that one took a 5wpm test, and the other took none, not much real difference.

How can you say that, when so many whined and complained that 5WPM was "too hard", that there is "not much real difference" between 5WPM and 0WPM?

Really now, Joe, COME ON.

[N8UZE]

The one thing I can say for certain after mucking through 11 pages of this thread is that I'm glad behaviour on the radio in no way resembles behaviour on the internet. I was only introduced to AR at the beginning of last year. I studied hard and was able to pass both technician and general in one sitting, and no one I've ever met on the air or in person has said anything about it. The only time code has even come up as a subject is when I've asked questions about it, and the responses were always civil and sincere. I am a little interested, so I may in fact learn it someday. It's not a priority, though, nor is it likely to be. The QRM on the internet is by far the most negative thing I've experienced about this hobby so far - If the activity on the bands resembled this mess in any way I'd sell my radios tomorrow. Fortunately I'm having loads of fun. You'll probably have to put up with me for quite awhile. I'm studying for Extra and building some new HF antennas, so you'll soon have to suffer my presence on 75 as well. Since I've had nothing but excellent treatment on the HF bands (except for my 'introduction' to VE7KFM yesterday evening, but that's a different story) I can only assume that the most negative aspects spend far more time posting here than they do on the radio. Maybe that's a good thing. Sorry I didn't get involved in AR sooner, but that regret has nothing whatsoever to do with not having had to take a code test.

Just a small observation from a dumbed-down, lazy, no-code, johnny-come-lately, CBer (I had one back in the 80's), ruining the hobby for everyone, ... Oh yeah - and HAPPY TO BE IN AR General Operator.

73s

Bruce
W7BDN


Most of the on air behaviour is fine but when you get on 75m, watch out. There are some cesspools on that one. Don't let them get to you. Spin the big dial.

[W7BDN]

Most of the on air behaviour is fine but when you get on 75m, watch out. There are some cesspools on that one. Don't let them get to you. Spin the big dial.

Thanks - I'll try not to step in them. :D

[KA4DPO]

The statement about 75 is absolutely true. Most of the recent crossover CBers have latched on to 75 meters as the new CB. The other night I was listening to some guys having a QSO on the AM calling frequency, 3.885 MHZ. Now we all know that you shouldn't sit on the calling frequency but these guys were hemmed in by sideband signals below the frequency.

A group of SSB operators all running a bucket and all pushing the grid current to the max moved as close to the AM calling frequency (3.886) as they could get and started making comments and laughing about messing up them AM boys and so forth. If this is not CB behavior I don't know what is. These guys sounded and acted like 11 meter refugees. There is no doubt in my mind they are recent licensees or recent upgrades under the new easy pizza testing rules.

Please don't try to tell me that these people are not CBers who became hams when the FCC made it a slam dunk for any idiot to get a ham license because they sound like inbread morons on the air. No one that stupid could have obtained a license under the old system.

[N8UZE]

The statement about 75 is absolutely true. Most of the recent crossover CBers have latched on to 75 meters as the new CB. The other night I was listening to some guys having a QSO on the AM calling frequency, 3.885 MHZ. Now we all know that you shouldn't sit on the calling frequency but these guys were hemmed in by sideband signals below the frequency.

A group of SSB operators all running a bucket and all pushing the grid current to the max moved as close to the AM calling frequency (3.886) as they could get and started making comments and laughing about messing up them AM boys and so forth. If this is not CB behavior I don't know what is. These guys sounded and acted like 11 meter refugees. There is no doubt in my mind they are recent licensees or recent upgrades under the new easy pizza testing rules.

Please don't try to tell me that these people are not CBers who became hams when the FCC made it a slam dunk for any idiot to get a ham license because they sound like inbread morons on the air. No one that stupid could have obtained a license under the old system.


Really? So why have I heard that garbage starting the day I got licensed in 1992. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same group I heard back then. I don't know how you missed hearing this crap as you were licensed even before that. Quit trying to fool us.

[KD4LEI]

KD4LEI - Yours are the two best posts on this whole thread.

Funny as %#!*

I try to make threads like this as humorous as possible, in order to bring entertainment value to the disorder and slay this beast in its many forms.

I may have to call in some squirrels with some "heavy firepower" LOL!!!

http://animalhousemagazine.com/Arm