View Full Version : Test Sessions.....
kb0mmb
02-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Why don't the FCC offer exams online so you do not have to wait for "testing sessions".
Just a thought....
Because then people would look at the question pool online while taking the test instead of simply memorizing it.
WA4TM
02-23-2008, 11:37 PM
Because then people would look at the question pool online while taking the test instead of simply memorizing it.
:D:D:D True!! :D:D:D
kb0mmb
02-23-2008, 11:59 PM
:D:D:D True!! :D:D:D
Well.. how do these online colleges give exams to get various degrees ?
KA8NCR
02-24-2008, 12:10 AM
Well.. how do these online colleges give exams to get various degrees ?
It depends upon the college. I'm sure some online colleges simply don't care. More reputable institutions might have online classes, but the course is conducive to that environment.
I took an online course and the tests were timed and a real pain. There's no way you could pass it unless you had been through the material. And the mid-term and final exams? You went to a testing session.
Well.. how do these online colleges give exams to get various degrees ?
Well, some exams in REAL colleges are open book.
Some online colleges make you go to local testing centers to do your exams.
Also, it's not like the questions and answers to the tests are posted online for everyone to see, just the material.
So in theory, if the FCC did away with publishing the pool, I'd probably be in favor of an online exam.
But then again, people will cheat, and the VE system works well, so why bother?
You already have a license anyway, why do you even care?
Oh, and by the way, some employers and other places don't recognize online degrees.
K5RCD
02-24-2008, 03:14 PM
So in theory, if the FCC did away with publishing the pool, I'd probably be in favor of an online exam.
It's not the FCC's call. The test questions and answers are available to the public under the Freedom of Information Act. Any one can access them and publish them publicly.
ad5mb
02-24-2008, 04:55 PM
I have a coworker who continuously asks me to take online tests for him. Hasn't happened yet, in the 13 years we have known each other, but he never learns.
That guy could make Extra in a day, if an Extra took the test for him.
Thank you, no.
It's not the FCC's call. The test questions and answers are available to the public under the Freedom of Information Act. Any one can access them and publish them publicly.
Baloney!
Using that logic I could demand that the Iowa state DOT publish the actual "question pool" for drivers license exams. Same thing with the state Bar exam or any other official examination or certification.
ai4ep
02-24-2008, 05:20 PM
IF the tests were via computer ( online ) some one could LIE and say they were you and cheat.
Hard to do that with an IN PERSON type of scenerio like we have now.....plus if you are too lazy to go to a testing session, we problably do not need you to become an amateur or upgrade your license either.
We really aint THAT desperate for another " codeless wonder " to upgrade, any way. ( sarcasm)
It's not the FCC's call. The test questions and answers are available to the public under the Freedom of Information Act. Any one can access them and publish them publicly. [/SIZE][/FONT]
Wrong RCD.
The only reason they have to publish the pool is because VEs are administering the exam.
If the FCC did away with the VE system and put the exams on a website it administered, the pools would not have to be published.
And please use a normal size font like everyone else, or you're going to end up on my ignore list.
N9MOQ
02-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Because then people would look at the question pool online while taking the test instead of simply memorizing it.
Not to find any fault in your correct statement, but you might find it interesting that when someone gets a traffic ticket now, they can opt to take a traffic safety test online from their own home, to keep the ticket off their record. You get to read and write down all the answers, then take the test while using your cheats on your own home computer.
Not suggesting Ham Radio Exams should be done the same way, just thought some might find this interesting.
If they gsave the test online then I would'nt have an excuse to get out of the house on Saturday to give tests.:D And I would miss a good laugh once in a while.
ai4ep
02-24-2008, 09:33 PM
oh and if you want to really hear some whining. give a listen to cb chanel 19 about an hour and a half AFTER a test session at all the truckers who flunked the technician test...saying that it is too hard for them to pass it.
kb3laz
02-25-2008, 04:43 AM
Why don't the FCC offer exams online so you do not have to wait for "testing sessions".
Just a thought....
Because people would be compelled to cheat!
af6bj
02-25-2008, 05:06 AM
find it interesting that when someone gets a traffic ticket now, they can opt to take a traffic safety test online from their own home, to keep the ticket off their record. You get to read and write down all the answers, then take the test while using your cheats on your own home computer.
The DMV traffic school and now the on-line version are nothing but a way to inconvenience you enought for you not to violate again. It has always been a joke to attend those classes. Look at some of the names these so called schools have: "Pizza time traffic school" "MovieFlix traffic school"... 2 years ago I got a speeding ticket with an option to attend traffic school. I took the on-line route. They told me to print out the completed on-line test and mail it in and they took $80 from my credit card. I did what they told me.....except a few months ago while watching TV I found an envelop stuck under the cussion. My traffic school test fell behind it and there is stayed all this time. The best part is I still have credit for passing the test and the violation point was never entered into the DMV and I never sent my test in.
What a fraud those companies are..... Sorry.... got off subject a bit there.
As for on-line Ham test, I just have 1 question.....How will they know if it is you who is taking the test?
:D
KI4RVH
02-25-2008, 05:07 AM
And please use a normal size font like everyone else, or you're going to end up on my ignore list.
Did this statement crack anybody else up besides me? I guess if everyone else was jumping off a bridge he should go do that too? And if he doesn't comply you will ignore him. He will be shunned by you for eternity. I'm still cracking up! This is priceless!
Thanks for the laugh
73
Chris
K7JEM
02-25-2008, 05:58 AM
Baloney!
Using that logic I could demand that the Iowa state DOT publish the actual "question pool" for drivers license exams. Same thing with the state Bar exam or any other official examination or certification.
State governments do not have to follow federal FOIA requirements, it is only for federal agencies, like the FCC.
Questions and answers, if used by the FCC, would fall under FOIA guidelines. So having the FCC administer the tests would not prevent having an open pool of questions. If they had actual printed tests, those would be available too.
This is one of the main reasons the questions and answers became public knowledge over 20 years ago. There are certain exceptions to the FOIA requirements, but HR test questions do not qualify.
Joe
K7JEM
02-25-2008, 06:06 AM
If the FCC did away with the VE system and put the exams on a website it administered, the pools would not have to be published.
True, but not exactly. The questions wouldn't have to be published, but anyone could file a FOIA request for whatever test questions were being used. The person obtaining this information could then publish it in any way he deemed fit, including published book form or internet access.
Since the FOIA request is basically free, and fairly easy to do, all it would take was one person that would dedicate an hour or so a month to getting this info released and published on the internet.
The FCC realized this, and changed the method of test administration years ago. The FCC did not maintain a large pool of questions, there may have only been a handful of distinct tests for any particular license class back in the 70's.
Joe
State governments do not have to follow federal FOIA requirements, it is only for federal agencies, like the FCC.
Questions and answers, if used by the FCC, would fall under FOIA guidelines. So having the FCC administer the tests would not prevent having an open pool of questions. If they had actual printed tests, those would be available too.
This is one of the main reasons the questions and answers became public knowledge over 20 years ago. There are certain exceptions to the FOIA requirements, but HR test questions do not qualify.
Joe
And how in hell would you know that? Proof please.
Name one state in the union which doesn't have a freedom of information act nearly word for word identical to the federal statute.
Why bother with testing? How about if we just mail in an app?
http://home.mchsi.com/~rkstover/graphics/LicBoxTop2.jpg
How are the gang over there at NTI (No Test International)?
k6jpd
02-25-2008, 02:10 PM
And how in hell would you know that? Proof please.
Name one state in the union which doesn't have a freedom of information act nearly word for word identical to the federal statute.
Why bother with testing? How about if we just mail in an app?
http://home.mchsi.com/~rkstover/graphics/LicBoxTop2.jpg
How are the gang over there at NTI (No Test International)?
actually, 38 out of 50 states still do not comply with the federal statutes. http://www.nfoic.org/resources/bga/
Not to find any fault in your correct statement, but you might find it interesting that when someone gets a traffic ticket now, they can opt to take a traffic safety test online from their own home, to keep the ticket off their record. You get to read and write down all the answers, then take the test while using your cheats on your own home computer.
Not suggesting Ham Radio Exams should be done the same way, just thought some might find this interesting.
You are right but I've taken 'traffic school' in person at the local AAA (for insurance discount) and I found that the course really didn't teach anything. The instructor was an ex cop and mostly engaged in idle chit chat. I think its silly that the states would let people get off from a traffic ticket by sitting through this excuse for a class. (One guy there was caught going 100 in a 45 in downtown Paterson, NJ and had multiple DUI on his record. Traffic school helped keep this scumbag on the road.)
And by the way, you can't get a driver license online. You have to show up at the dmv, take their written test and take a road test.
K7JEM
02-25-2008, 03:18 PM
And how in hell would you know that? Proof please.
Name one state in the union which doesn't have a freedom of information act nearly word for word identical to the federal statute.
Why bother with testing? How about if we just mail in an app?
http://home.mchsi.com/~rkstover/graphics/LicBoxTop2.jpg
How are the gang over there at NTI (No Test International)?
There is no requirement for states to have an FOIA like the federal government. They are two separate entities that have different laws and regulations. I do not know what the rules for any particular state are, I just know that the federal statute that we're talking about here has no force over what a state government chooses to do.
I can't find any gang at "NTI", not sure what organization you are referring to. Maybe another mis-information that has been passed along to you. Maybe you can post a link to their website, or other info. Some of us might be interested in joining.
Joe
K5RCD
02-25-2008, 04:09 PM
Wrong RCD.
The only reason they have to publish the pool is because VEs are administering the exam.
If the FCC did away with the VE system and put the exams on a website it administered, the pools would not have to be published.
And please use a normal size font like everyone else, or you're going to end up on my ignore list.
N2RJ:
A. You don't know what you are talking about. :confused: Anyone can obtain the test Q&As via the (federal) FOIA. Someone would publish them for a fat fee if they were not otherwise available. The VE program has nothing to do with that.
B. I will use any font size and type I choose. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list. (Of course I will be SO heart-broken).
C. I'm going fishing for a few days. Enjoy yourself. :cool:
< snip >
If the FCC did away with the VE system and put the exams on a website it administered, the pools would not have to be published.
< snip >
Ah... no.
You can trace the VE system back to two things: Budget cuts, and Dick Bash (where is he now?)
Once upon a time, the FCC gave the tests, only the FCC gave the tests, and the study material was about the substance of the tests. Had to be, the FCC didn't publish the question pool. (FOIA? What FOIA?)
Then a gentleman... excuse me, an individual named Dick Bash began publishing the questions -- and answers. (How did he get them? He and his staff started questioning hams who had just taken the test to see what questions they remembered). "Bash Books" became very popular, as you can imagine. (Novice & Tech were still mail-order licenses at the time, so convincing someone to make a copy of a test wasn't that tough either, but let's not digress). Eventually, as I recall, the FCC gave in and began permitting the test pools to go public... and in short order, Mr. Bash's empire got competition and withered away.
Meanwhile, the FCC was undergoing buget cuts and other cost savings. It began to be more and more difficult to take the tests... instead of just walking in to an FCC office, you had to schedule an appointment in advance; and test sessions held in other cities became less frequent (monthly became quarterly became semi-annually became annually became non-existant).
To make a long story short, after some experimenting (at Hamvention and other places) to see if it could/would work, and some legislation to permit the FCC to do it, and some other details, the current VE system was born. And with the VE system, the FCC withdrew from testing.
And... with multiple VE Coordinators, it was inevitable that standardized testing would result, and that the shared test question pools would become public. At one point, I was left with the impression that the pools would be so big, for each element, that simply memorizing all the questions & answers would be difficult if not impossible. I'm not so sure if that's still the case today.
I don't believe that the FCC wants to return to administering the tests today. Not even to the point of putting them on their web site. They can wash their hands of the whole testing situation this way.
73
N2RJ:
I'm such a lid and a pig head, I decided to annoy N2RJ, and I don't care if I end up on his ignore list.
Good.
Onto ignore you go.
Buh-bye!
N8UZE
02-25-2008, 07:11 PM
N2RJ:
A. You don't know what you are talking about. :confused: Anyone can obtain the test Q&As via the (federal) FOIA. Someone would publish them for a fat fee if they were not otherwise available. The VE program has nothing to do with that.
B. I will use any font size and type I choose. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list. (Of course I will be SO heart-broken).
C. I'm going fishing for a few days. Enjoy yourself. :cool:
As any knowledgeable speaker or writer can tell you, communications are most effective when delivered in the manner most acceptable to the target audience if you wish to get your message across.
This principle was the driving force behind standardization of grammar and spelling. You standardize the medium so that the audience is not distracted from your message. I.e. The medium should never get in the way of or call attention away from the message.
N9MOQ
02-25-2008, 07:12 PM
http://home.mchsi.com/~rkstover/graphics/LicBoxTop2.jpg
Having to buy and eat 10 boxes of cereal seems like a lot of work to get the Extra Ham license. (Plus this would cost something around $30!)
On another note, if getting the Extra is so easy, that they are now practically given them away, how come all Hams are not able to pass the simple test and get one? It doesn't cost any more when taking the Technician or General to quickly do the simple Extra, so why do so many stop at Technician or General if this is so easy?
What is easy for some of us, is very difficult for most of the rest.
If this was not true, everyone would have an Extra license.
KI4RVH
02-25-2008, 07:34 PM
Because people would be compelled to cheat!
Just curious. What is that emblem on your avatar?
K1CJS
02-25-2008, 08:13 PM
As someone already said, so they know you are YOU and not someone else.
Also, for the same reason the Ve team cannot allow any sort of materials with possible answers on them into the test area. The only thing you're allowed is a calculator--and you're not even allowed that if the VE team can't insure the memory is cleared.
Even though a trained monkey could almost pass the tech test, the VE team has to demand you play by the rules, and the rules say you must know (or have memorized) the answers to the questions!