Illegal Alien Killed 4 Children in School Bus Accident

[KG4JYD]

Illegal Alien Charged With Homicide in Deadly Minnesota School Bus Crash

Friday , February 22, 2008


MINNEAPOLIS —
A woman who authorities say is in the country illegally and using an alias was charged Friday with four counts of criminal vehicular homicide and two lesser charges in a school bus crash that killed four children.

A woman who identified herself as Alianiss Nunez Morales, 23, of Minneota, was driving a van that failed to stop at a stop sign Tuesday before hitting a bus carrying 28 students from Lakeview School, Lyon County Attorney Richard Maes said. The accident happened near the small town of Cottonwood, in southwestern Minnesota.

Morales was also charged with a stop sign violation and for driving without a valid license, Maes said.

Ommigration and cu$toms Enforcement agents are trying to figure out the woman's true identity. Claude Arnold, ICE special agent in charge of investigations, said his agency believes Morales is an illegal immigrant. ICE has filed paperwork to detain her for deportation proceedings after the criminal case is resolved.

"The only name we have for her is the name she gave us when she was booked," Arnold said, adding that the woman told authorities she was from Mexico.

Morales does not have a Minnesota driver's license, and "she doesn't have a (driver's license) anywhere that we're aware of," said Lt. Mark Peterson of the Minnesota State Patrol.

Morales also told police she was driving to Norcraft Cabinetry, where she had been working for a month, and that it was her first time on County Road 24.

The bus driver and at least one motorist said Morales did not stop at the stop sign, court documents said. The bus driver, Dennis Devereaux, told police it appeared the van wasn't going to stop, and "he did not have time to hit the brakes or accelerate."

Two brothers, the daughter of a teacher at Lakeview school and the son of a former Lakeview teacher were killed in the crash.

Six people, five of them students, remain hospitalized at Avera McKennan Hospital & University Health Center in Sioux Falls, S.D. One student was due to go home later Friday, spokesman Kenyon Gleason said. Two other students were in fair condition and two were serious; the adult at the hospital was in fair condition.

Another student remains hospitalized at Mayo Clinic in fair condition.


Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,331989,00.html

[N3ATS]

But we wouldn't want to tell this woman's son that's serving in Iraq that she is being deported, now would we? :rolleyes:

Thank you Juan McCain.

[N2RJ]

But we wouldn't want to tell this woman's son that's serving in Iraq that she is being deported, now would we? :rolleyes:

Thank you Juan McCain.

That's the whole problem with birthright citizenship - the anchor babies, who grow up to be anchor men and women, and even anchor soldiers.

I'd actually be willing to give amnesty to any illegal alien that serves though, but the thought of people who don't respect our laws having access to sophisticated deadly weapons scares me.

[K8YZK]

"I'd actually be willing to give amnesty to any illegal alien that serves."


I would to, give them a M16A2, send them to Iraq or Afganstian, for 4yrs and if they make it thru, then the are citizens.

I have to agree with Ron Paul, no more birthright for children born to illegals in the US. If either of the parent is illegal, so is the baby, send them all back.

No more welfare, health care etc.

Kurt

[KU0DM]

So, what if the government traces a family, and found that the current generations great great grandparents moved here illegally, should they round up the family and deport them to where they came from?

[n7rjd]

.....but the thought of people who don't respect our laws having access to sophisticated deadly weapons scares me.

That pretty much describes drunk drivers and most of them are citizens.

[KU0DM]

now depends on foreigners and felons to fill the ranks of the military.
--KE7RFL

Apparently someone on this board already thinks people who don't respect our laws have advanced weaponry.

I wonder how the Iraqis feel, I mean we've gone into THEIR country, foreigners, not followed THEIR laws, and killed THEIR children and many more for a "common goal".

Personally I don't think we should be complaining about others doing this to us till we stop doing it to them.

[N2RJ]

So, what if the government traces a family, and found that the current generations great great grandparents moved here illegally, should they round up the family and deport them to where they came from?

No.

There's something called "statute of limitations."

If I were writing the law, I'd limit it to the prior generation only.

Also, I'd exempt any child over 18. If the Government takes 18 years to find out they made a mistake, they f'ed up. No sense ruining peoples' lives because of a Government mistake.

[KU0DM]

The Government's already ruining peoples life because their little picket fence never did, and still isn't working.

Families are separated daily, and children become orphans and homeless because the government sees them as illegal immigrants and nothing more. That has been made more and more obvious with the advent of the Bush administration.

The Bush administration has done a find job of neglecting to care for those American citizens that are less fortunate than themselves, and treats illegals like dirt.
I don't care if they are an illegal immigrant, or Chinese spy, everyone is a human and deserves to be treated like one.

[KG4JYD]

Who's to blame?

-Bush
-Clinton
-Reagan
and the majority of Congress for the last couple of decades (including McCain)

[KU0DM]

When did illegal immigration become a problem?

Now, when did it become a problem that escalated to the level of building a big fence and deporting people left and right with no consideration of what family is left behind?

There is your answer.

[N3RQ]

Who's to blame?

-Bush
-Clinton
-Reagan
and the majority of Congress for the last couple of decades (including McCain)

Employers! These people would not be here if employers did not use them to undercut their competition.

[N3RQ]

When did illegal immigration become a problem?

Now, when did it become a problem that escalated to the level of building a big fence and deporting people left and right with no consideration of what family is left behind?

There is your answer.

Illegal immigration has been a problem for the border states for decades. However, illegal immigration did not come to the forefront until it started to cause problems in non-border states. Illegal aliens do put a significant strain on social services and community hospitals.

In my humble opinion, the people who should be rounded up and deported are the employers of illegal aliens. These people are gaining a competitive advantage by shifting a significant portion of the cost of their labor forces onto the backs of taxpayers. Illegal immigration is for all intents and purposes a labor subsidy.

[KG4JYD]

Employers! These people would not be here if employers did not use them to undercut their competition.Not true. A poor person in the US is better off than a poor person in Mexico.

While yes many employers exploit illegal alien labor, if they were not in the country to begin with, it would not be possible for US business to exploit them.

[N3RQ]

Not true. A poor person in the US is better off than a poor person in Mexico.

While yes many employers exploit illegal alien labor, if they were not in the country to begin with, it would not be possible for US business to exploit them.

You have it backwards Matt. The illegal alien problem is one of demand. If illegal aliens cannot find work, they will not come to the U.S. If we clamp down on employers and cut off social services to non-legal residents, most of the illegal aliens that are here will go home.

[KG4JYD]

If we clamp down on employers and cut off social services to non-legal residents, most of the illegal aliens that are here will go home.If we seal the border employers won't have a chance to hire them.

I understand supply and demand (it's why drugs are rampant despite our government's "efforts" to the contrary) but there is no way to stop employers from hiring illegals without turning the US into a racist/police state. Unless you have another way?

[N3RQ]

If we seal the border employers won't have a chance to hire them.

I understand supply and demand (it's why drugs are rampant despite our government's "efforts" to the contrary) but there is no way to stop employers from hiring illegals without turning the US into a racist/police state. Unless you have another way?

All we have to do is to enforce the laws that are currently on the books. Knowingly hiring an illegal alien is a felony.

[KG4JYD]

Knowingly hiring an illegal alien is a felony.And how do you prove that someone knowingly hired an illegal alien?

[N2RJ]

The Government's already ruining peoples life because their little picket fence never did, and still isn't working.

Families are separated daily, and children become orphans and homeless because the government sees them as illegal immigrants and nothing more. That has been made more and more obvious with the advent of the Bush administration.

The Bush administration has done a find job of neglecting to care for those American citizens that are less fortunate than themselves, and treats illegals like dirt.
I don't care if they are an illegal immigrant, or Chinese spy, everyone is a human and deserves to be treated like one.

Family separation is not the Government's fault.

Those who choose to come here know the risk of being separated from their families.

If people truly cared about family unity, they'd stay in their home countries. That is the honest truth.

Everyone who is here legally has some provision to bring their families over here eventually, legally, and their immediate family members can be brought here, legally. Even non-immediate family such as siblings can be brought over here.

The whole "family separation" thing is a ploy for a backdoor amnesty - claim family separation in the hopes that the Government will have sympathy and enact a law to grant status to you or your family and/or friends.

The kids who are born here are used as an anchor to prevent deportation of the parents - how can you deport an American citizen? You can't. Someone has to stay here and take care of the child, and in some cases the child won't have citizenship in his/her parents' home country.

[N2RJ]

When did illegal immigration become a problem?

Now, when did it become a problem that escalated to the level of building a big fence and deporting people left and right with no consideration of what family is left behind?

There is your answer.

Maybe in Kansas it's not a problem, but here in New Jersey and New York we are facing a population bomb, especially school overcrowding - Many schools in Queens, NYC and other overpopulated areas now have to conduct some classes in trailers in the school yard because there are too many students, both immigrants and their children.

And you are right it wasn't really a big problem years ago. Back in the 80s, the wait time for an immigrant visa wasn't that long. Along comes amnesty for about 2-3 million illegals, that wait time jumps to 10-14 years. Now we have 12-20 million, maybe as much as 30 million illegal aliens here if we include their children - almost one tenth of the US population. I'd say it's a problem now.

[K0RGR]

If we seal the border employers won't have a chance to hire them.

I understand supply and demand (it's why drugs are rampant despite our government's "efforts" to the contrary) but there is no way to stop employers from hiring illegals without turning the US into a racist/police state. Unless you have another way?

I greatly agree that we need to improve border security. There have been widespread reports of the Mexican Army making incursions into the U.S. to assist drug smugglers! And, when these incidents come up, our government turns a blind eye and a deaf ear.

The fence is not a totally bad idea - it might actually help.

But how are you going to 'seal' the border without shooting the illegals? It's not a felony to cross the border, and it's not legal to shoot somebody for a misdemeanor. So, what's the solution, genocide?

No, we need a foolproof means of identifying citizens. Then, any employer hiring an illegal gets 20 years in Leavenworth. Arizona is already making tougher enforcement a reality, and the illegals are leaving by droves. This is hurting the economy of the state, but it's helping the illegal problem.

[W3MIV]

How long before we hear the cry, "Mister Obama, tear down this wall!"?

[K0RGR]

How long before we hear the cry, "Mister Obama, tear down this wall!"?

If it's effective, about 5 minutes after the Republican ranchers in California discover that they have to pay minimum wage to somebody to pick their lettuce. Or,10 minutes after lettuce hits $3 a head at the Piggly Wiggly.

[kg4heb]

"I'd actually be willing to give amnesty to any illegal alien that serves."


I would to, give them a M16A2, send them to Iraq or Afganstian, for 4yrs and if they make it thru, then the are citizens. I served in the Navy and during this time I served with a dozen different shipmates who where serving 4 years to get there citizenship. They came from all over the globe. Had it been War time, would they have stayed or went AWOL? I think at least half of them would have went AWOL. One that was from the philipines ask me once (During peace time), "Do you think they Navy would come after me if I just left to go back to my country and didn't comeback?". I told him I didn't think they would spend the time and money to come looking when they could just deny your citizenship and give you a Dishonorable Discharge. Why should he care about a Dishonorable Discharge if he's not a citizen though?

[N5NPO]

Illegal Alien Charged With Homicide in Deadly Minnesota School Bus Crash

Friday , February 22, 2008


MINNEAPOLIS —
A woman who authorities say is in the country illegally and using an alias was charged Friday with four counts of criminal vehicular homicide and two lesser charges in a school bus crash that killed four children.

A woman who identified herself as Alianiss Nunez Morales, 23, of Minneota, was driving a van that failed to stop at a stop sign Tuesday before hitting a bus carrying 28 students from Lakeview School, Lyon County Attorney Richard Maes said. The accident happened near the small town of Cottonwood, in southwestern Minnesota.

Morales was also charged with a stop sign violation and for driving without a valid license, Maes said.

Ommigration and cu$toms Enforcement agents are trying to figure out the woman's true identity. Claude Arnold, ICE special agent in charge of investigations, said his agency believes Morales is an illegal immigrant. ICE has filed paperwork to detain her for deportation proceedings after the criminal case is resolved.

"The only name we have for her is the name she gave us when she was booked," Arnold said, adding that the woman told authorities she was from Mexico.

Morales does not have a Minnesota driver's license, and "she doesn't have a (driver's license) anywhere that we're aware of," said Lt. Mark Peterson of the Minnesota State Patrol.

Morales also told police she was driving to Norcraft Cabinetry, where she had been working for a month, and that it was her first time on County Road 24.

The bus driver and at least one motorist said Morales did not stop at the stop sign, court documents said. The bus driver, Dennis Devereaux, told police it appeared the van wasn't going to stop, and "he did not have time to hit the brakes or accelerate."

Two brothers, the daughter of a teacher at Lakeview school and the son of a former Lakeview teacher were killed in the crash.

Six people, five of them students, remain hospitalized at Avera McKennan Hospital & University Health Center in Sioux Falls, S.D. One student was due to go home later Friday, spokesman Kenyon Gleason said. Two other students were in fair condition and two were serious; the adult at the hospital was in fair condition.

Another student remains hospitalized at Mayo Clinic in fair condition.


Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,331989,00.html

Shouldn't she be classified as an undocumented driver?

[n2ize]

Illegal immigration has been a problem for the border states for decades. However, illegal immigration did not come to the forefront until it started to cause problems in non-border states. Illegal aliens do put a significant strain on social services and community hospitals.

In my humble opinion, the people who should be rounded up and deported are the employers of illegal aliens. These people are gaining a competitive advantage by shifting a significant portion of the cost of their labor forces onto the backs of taxpayers. Illegal immigration is for all intents and purposes a labor subsidy.

Yeah right... I can just see it happening. Money Talks...BS Walks.

[KD6NIG]

Now you know why "uninsured" motorist insurance has climbed rapidly the past few years.

If you drive on the road, best make sure your insurance is sufficent enough to cover you and your family if something happens-because its likely the other party isn't going to have any.

Its reached the point that the police can stop and seize vehicles at an astonishing rate every day and for every vehicle they seize, 2 more get onto the road with an unlicensed or illegal driver at the helm.

Its not just the illegals though. Many people who are suspended or revoked don't care either and get on the road too.

If you think interlopers on 10m or guys going pirate on our airwaves are a problem, the illegal/unlicensed/revoked crowds driving 1 ton weapons on our roadways probably number much higher, per capita....

Its a slap in the face too when you get behind someone and the tags are over 5 years old, and they could care less....

[KG4JYD]

The fence is not a totally bad idea - it might actually help. I used to think so. But then I realized all of the eminent domain abuses that would be caused by it for people who live on or near the border.

The reality of the situation is that with UAV and other surveillance systems on the border we could catch anyone coming across. We have similar technology in Iraq and implementing it here at home would work just as well if not better.

I don't think we need a wall, just a good surveillance system with the patrols to enforce it.


But how are you going to 'seal' the border without shooting the illegals? That would be a great deterrent after about a week. I don't think shooting people for trespassing is bad so long as proper notice is given (big signs, leaflet drops, it's on the news in advance etc).



No, we need a foolproof means of identifying citizens. You want a national ID card? :confused:

[KG4JYD]

Maybe in Kansas it's not a problem, but here in New Jersey and New York we are facing a population bomb,Same for the South. They are everywhere :mad:

[nx6d]

Same old nonsense resurfacing.

Lots of anecdotes about costs and over crowded schools coming from the usual suspects.

"They are all over the south". Does that threaten you, JYD?

At least the immigrants are willing to work. Not at some fancy job, that was set up by a silver spoon education overseas, but at real down to earth grunt work, that, yes, most Americans won't do.

In both areas of California that I have lived, it's the same old story, especially here in Modoc. I've tried to hire the local citizens to do lots of work on my properties and it all comes back to same thing. The locals talk a good line, are great at taking money, but are slow and NEVER finish on time.

I hired a local guy to change a mainseal on my Caprice diesel. Long story short, he knocked one of the teeth off the cam shaft, couldn't fix it and dumped the car at one of my rentals. Then, he had the audacity to blame the car for his screwup.

I had a rental that was in pretty bad shape. I tried to hire some local Tulelakeans to work on the house. These are guys that are unemployed, yet they think they deserve pay of journeymen carpenters. They simply refuse to work. The guy I did hire, has taken 2 months longer than he should have and always has some dumb excuse why things aren't done.

Contrast to the Mexicanos that rebuilt the house I'm living in now. They took it down to the studs, a complete roof job and fixed some of the stuff they broke. No complaints, no whining and the job was done very quickly. Yes, they're legal, I checked, but they probably weren't when they first got here. They work their butts off and are doing quite well. I don't give a damn if they don't speak English well and listen to "banda". Guys like those are like the immigrants from other generations that fought hard to achieve the American dream. They contribute more than they take away. I'd rather have them then some of the indigenous slugs that are always looking for some kind of angle.

Are all the immigrants angels and good hearted? Of course not. I think the percentages of sloths, criminals and people sucking off of the system are exaggerated by Xenophobes that are threatened by Mexicanos.

I'll use an example: "Everyone from the South is stupid and a hick". Of course, it's not true. If I said that seriously, there'd be a firestorm of righteous indignation from you guys attacking me for saying that.

The same logic applies to immigrants. They aren't as they are portrayed here and from some of the anti-immigration outlets. They are not all criminals and sucking off of the system. Anyone who takes off their xenophobe glasses can see that.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[ac4r]

Yeah right... I can just see it happening. Money Talks...BS Walks.



Guess AZ. and OK. didn't see it that way.

[ac4r]

The Hispanic Chamber of Commerce tried to challenge the AZ. law and lost.



A suit was filed by plaintiffs that includes the list of the usual suspects, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and an extensive list of non-profit employer associations that thrive on cheap labor.

They argued that the law was unconstitutional and that only the federal government can regulate and enforce immigration law. In a 37-page opinion, Wake rejected the argument that the statute is unconstitutional.

Arizona did not stumble its way toward a solution. A lot of work and thought went into crafting a piece of legislation that would pass the constitutional test. The citizens of Arizona demanded an end to the practice of employers hiring illegal aliens and the Legislature responded.

Three other states, Georgia, Oklahoma and Missouri, have adopted similar laws and Indiana is currently considering one. Numerous other states and communities across the country have adopted other forms of legislation to deal with the impact of costs for social services, health care, education, jobs, etc.

You will not read or hear about this from the mainstream media.

[nx6d]

What's your source? Link, please.

Didn't anyone tell you not to post copyrighted material without attribution? I KNOW you didn't write this yourself...


The Hispanic Chamber of Commerce tried to challenge the AZ. law and lost.



A suit was filed by plaintiffs that includes the list of the usual suspects, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and an extensive list of non-profit employer associations that thrive on cheap labor.

They argued that the law was unconstitutional and that only the federal government can regulate and enforce immigration law. In a 37-page opinion, Wake rejected the argument that the statute is unconstitutional.

Arizona did not stumble its way toward a solution. A lot of work and thought went into crafting a piece of legislation that would pass the constitutional test. The citizens of Arizona demanded an end to the practice of employers hiring illegal aliens and the Legislature responded.

Three other states, Georgia, Oklahoma and Missouri, have adopted similar laws and Indiana is currently considering one. Numerous other states and communities across the country have adopted other forms of legislation to deal with the impact of costs for social services, health care, education, jobs, etc.

You will not read or hear about this from the mainstream media.

[KG4JYD]

"They are all over the south". Does that threaten you, JYD? Yes. They are illegal and should not be here. They are consuming resources, causing the labor market weird anomalies, violating our sovereignty, and costing me money.




real down to earth grunt work, that, yes, most Americans won't do. Oh Americans will do it, IF the pay is right. I'd clear toilets for $100k a year worth of buying power.

It's like Ford noted, you've got to make the products inexpensive enough and pay your workers high enough so that they can afford to buy what they make.

Another example of this is Dell outsourcing their call centers overseas. I guarantee you the Indians are not getting the same amount of money that the Americans would be for the same job. Pretty soon Dell may not have enough people to actually purchase their products. Same goes for MANY other companies.

In both areas of California that I have lived, it's the same old story, especially here in Modoc. I've tried to hire the local citizens to do lots of work on my properties and it all comes back to same thing. The locals talk a good line, are great at taking money, but are slow and NEVER finish on time. I hired a local guy to change a mainseal on my Caprice diesel. Long story short, he knocked one of the teeth off the cam shaft, couldn't fix it and dumped the car at one of my rentals. Then, he had the audacity to blame the car for his screwup.

Speaking of anecdotal evidence... :rolleyes:


Are all the immigrants angels and good hearted? Of course not. I think the percentages of sloths, criminals and people sucking off of the system are exaggerated by Xenophobes that are threatened by Mexicanos.Who said anything about xenophobia? Legal immigrants are GREAT. This country was founded on immigration; LEGAL immigration.

They are not all criminals If they are here illlegally then they are indeed criminals. Did you fail logic class too?


and sucking off of the system. By simply being here illegally they are 'sucking off the system'. I would venture to say most of them don't have insurance. When they go to the hospital, WE pay for it. Most of them send their kids to school which causes overcrowding. Infrastructure in many places is beyond peak tolerances because of the extra 10-30 MILLION illegals in the country. And that's not a drain?

Who do you think is footing the bill?

[W7WV]

This type of accident happens all to often here in AZ also.
Most of the time if they can they drive away so they won't get caught.
No insurance of course and most don't have a license or it's a phony anyway so they can get a job.
Still think illegals don't cost you anything where you live?
Keeps in mind that all the candidates for President are currently members of the US Senate.
Ask why they have done nothing about his mess.:mad:

[K8YZK]

Illegals are a problem everywhere now days, even up here in the Detroit area.

As far as driving without a license or revoke/denied, I work for a Police Department, and I can tell you that not having a license doesn't stop someone from driving, if they want/need to drive they will.

Part of the problem is the drain on the services that we pay for, that they don't. Yes those that hire them (walmart for one) should be fined and maybe jail time, but make it mean something not just a slap on the hand and don't do it again.

[KI4VEO]

To successfully stop illegals coming across our southern border!

#1 Set up a trust fund of $10 million each for a handful of Mexican Generals.

#2 Tell them that for each illegal that crosses, we take back $100K.

#3 Problem solved !

My 2 pesos:cool:

[n0ov]

Illegals are a problem everywhere now days, even up here in the Detroit area.

As far as driving without a license or revoke/denied, I work for a Police Department, and I can tell you that not having a license doesn't stop someone from driving, if they want/need to drive they will.

Part of the problem is the drain on the services that we pay for, that they don't. Yes those that hire them (walmart for one) should be fined and maybe jail time, but make it mean something not just a slap on the hand and don't do it again.

I like the General idea (posted earlier)

Concerning drain on services, could not agree more. How about this for a solution --- employers who hire illegals should be held liable for all services processing fees and deportation costs if any of them are caught or (worse yet) do something illegal or cause damage.

On the flip side, the state department needs to get their act together. There must be a low cost option that would allow folks who want to enter this country legally to do so.

It's going to stake strong enforcement along with changes to the current laws (that give honest folks a break and a way in) for this problem to work.

[N2RJ]

Guess AZ. and OK. didn't see it that way.

I think IZE is being wishful.

[AE6IP]

This country was founded on immigration; LEGAL immigration.

You know, as often as I've looked, I've never been able to find anyone among the first peoples who remembers any of their ancestors asking the Europeans to come steal their land, commit genocide against them, and herd the remainder onto reservations.

On the other hand, many of these "illegal" immigrants are people who were illegally displaced from land their families had lived on for centuries. Some were displaced as recently as sixty years ago.

Shouldn't a libertarian such as yourself be all up in arms about the Europeans coming along and stealing all that native property? Shouldn't you be against the government trying to keep the people down? Shouldn't you be for the natives getting theirs back?

[KG4JYD]

To successfully stop illegals coming across our southern border!

#1 Set up a trust fund of $10 million each for a handful of Mexican Generals.


Why should I be forced to pay for the government's mistake of letting them here in the first place?!?! :confused:

[KG4JYD]

You know, as often as I've looked, I've never been able to find anyone among the first peoples who remembers any of their ancestors asking the Europeans to come steal their land, commit genocide against them, and herd the remainder onto reservations.Well, from my understanding the indigenous population in North American didn't think of land ownership the same way that the civilized world did.

And I agree that that genocide and reservation herding was wrong and a regrettable action.


Shouldn't a libertarian such as yourself be all up in arms about the Europeans coming along and stealing all that native property? Shouldn't you be against the government trying to keep the people down? There were defiantly regrettable atrocities on both sides of that battle.

Shouldn't you be for the natives getting theirs back?Show me on native alive today that was displaced by the US government...

[AE6IP]

Show me on native alive today that was displaced by the US government...

Shall we meet at Rocky Boy reservation? I know some people there who would love to teach you about the US government and native peoples.

How about any of the Hispanic enclaves in California? Come here and I'll show you hundreds of people, still alive, who were displaced by the 'round up' in the 50s, many of whom are now considered "illegal" aliens.

Besides, receiving stolen property is still theft. All those people force across the US/Mexican border in the 20s and 30s have family who should be recognized as US citizens.

You can go back further and look up the land grant swindles.

[AE6IP]

Well, from my understanding the indigenous population in North American didn't think of land ownership the same way that the civilized world did.

The "civilized" world committed genocide against people who had a different view of land stewardship than they did. They violated the principles of ownership already present so as to steal the land. You can label the theft with whatever positive spin you want, it was theft.

The word 'civilized' hardly applies more to the settlers than it does to, say, the Cherokee, who had quiet an advanced civilization of their own, and attempted to adapt to the Europeans who basically screwed them over.

It cracks me up no end to see the self-serving indignation of people whose own ancestors stole the land decrying the "illegal" behavior of people whose ancestors had been on the land for hundreds, if not thousands of years because they wish to regain free passage on that land.

[KG4JYD]

The "civilized" world committed genocide against people who had a different view of land stewardship than they did. They violated the principles of ownership already present so as to steal the land. You can label the theft with whatever positive spin you want, it was theft.

Some of it was, some of it wasn't. Of course there were atrocities that took place, but it happened on both sides.

[KG4JYD]

How about any of the Hispanic enclaves in California? Come here and I'll show you hundreds of people, still alive, who were displaced by the 'round up' in the 50s, many of whom are now considered "illegal" aliens.Details?

Besides, receiving stolen property is still theft. No it's not. Receiving stolen property may be a crime in and of itself but it does not = theft.

[AE6IP]

Details?

are widely available. Start with The Zoot Suit Riots and work your way either backward to the 30s and the forced emigration of then, or forward to Eisenhower's mistaken 'roundup' of hispanics and forced emigration in the 50s.

No it's not. Receiving stolen property may be a crime in and of itself but it does not = theft.

It's still a crime. The United States is founded on the theft of land and natural resources from the native peoples. It is hilarious as hell to hear the descendants of those thieves rant on about "illegal" aliens.

Or it would be if that ranting didn't get so much in the way of a realistic solution to the problem.

[KG4JYD]

The United States is founded on the theft of land and natural resources from the native peoples.No, not all of it. But even the parts that were are irrelevant now.


It is hilarious as hell to hear the descendants of those thieves rant on about "illegal" aliens.I'm a descendent of immigrants and I am "ranting" about it. Oh wait - that's because the immigrants that I am referring to are ILLEGAL immigrants. :rolleyes:

[W8EFA]

What's your source? Link, please.

Didn't anyone tell you not to post copyrighted material without attribution? I KNOW you didn't write this yourself...

From AC4R -

The Hispanic Chamber of Commerce tried to challenge the AZ. law and lost.



A suit was filed by plaintiffs that includes the list of the usual suspects, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and an extensive list of non-profit employer associations that thrive on cheap labor.

They argued that the law was unconstitutional and that only the federal government can regulate and enforce immigration law. In a 37-page opinion, Wake rejected the argument that the statute is unconstitutional.

Arizona did not stumble its way toward a solution. A lot of work and thought went into crafting a piece of legislation that would pass the constitutional test. The citizens of Arizona demanded an end to the practice of employers hiring illegal aliens and the Legislature responded.

Three other states, Georgia, Oklahoma and Missouri, have adopted similar laws and Indiana is currently considering one. Numerous other states and communities across the country have adopted other forms of legislation to deal with the impact of costs for social services, health care, education, jobs, etc.

You will not read or hear about this from the mainstream media.



Word for word from here. Someone else's editorial comments no less.

http://www.timesreporter.com/index.php?ID=80070&r=5&Category=6

[AE6IP]

I'm a descendent of immigrants and I am "ranting" about it. Oh wait - that's because the immigrants that I am referring to are ILLEGAL immigrants.

Just like you.

[ac4r]

Word for word from here. Someone else's editorial comments no less.

http://www.timesreporter.com/index.php?ID=80070&r=5&Category=6


Big deal EFA

[W3MIV]

Big deal EFA

Good come-back. Very effective. A classic, no doubt.

[KG4JYD]

Just like you.What in the hell are you talking about? :confused:

[AE6IP]

What in the hell are you talking about? :confused:

A post you replied to yesterday.

I could slow it down some more for you, if you're having trouble with the big words.

[KB9BVN]

But we wouldn't want to tell this woman's son that's serving in Iraq that she is being deported, now would we? :rolleyes:

Thank you Juan McCain.

Uh...she's 23...she has no son serving in Iraq. She needs to spend about 15 years in prison.

[KG4JYD]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-bs.gif

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a745/a745_bm.gif

[nx6d]

Big deal EFA

You plagarized the comments, just as I thought, station.

You have zip in the credibility department.

Go back and crawl under your southern fried rock. You have no integrity at all.

[nx6d]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-bs.gif


That's cute, junior.

Just about sums up your meager opinions on this subject.

[n2ize]

A post you replied to yesterday.

I could slow it down some more for you, if you're having trouble with the big words.

You'd have better luck debating a brick wall.

[ac4r]

You plagarized the comments, just as I thought, station.

You have zip in the credibility department.

Go back and crawl under your southern fried rock. You have no integrity at

all.

Dave how many times do you need to prove you are a far left liberal. I think most have figured this out by now.

[w8gtf]

Who's to blame?

-Bush
-Clinton
-Reagan
and the majority of Congress for the last couple of decades (including McCain)

Obama...Hillary...Dr Paul...ect...