Is operating parked mobile loitering?

[W1GUH]

I was over in NJ today playing with my mobile rig in a park having a lot of fun, and, just as I was packing up a park security officer asked me if I had missed the "No Loitering" sign at the entrance to the lot. I had, and she was cool about it, and told me that "you can't hang out in the parking lot."

This is not a really big thing outside of it always gives me a creepy feeling to have something like that happen. But do any legal eagles out there know how "loitering" is usually defined?

A web search turned up the definition:

1. To stand idly about; linger aimlessly.

Is playing with radio "standing idly about" or "lingering aimlessly" or "hanging out?"

Guess I'm still feeling a little creepy about it if I'm compelled to raise this issue here. Truth is, there's plenty of other places to do that so there's no real practical issue here.

OTOH, I had a really good day and had two lengthy rag chews with the kind of hams I love to meet. They were both down in Fla and we had good discussions about antennas. One of 'em was running a rhombic and wow, was it effective. He was running 25 watts and was a solid 10-20 over S9 up here. Lucky guy!

Or does this belong in "Talk and Opinions?"

[AE6IP]

depends on the municipality. In general, being some place other than for the purpose of that place is 'loitering', even if you have your own harmless purpose.

[G8ADD]

After looking up "loitering" you should have looked up "park".

"A park is a bounded area of land, usually in its natural or semi-natural (landscaped) state and set aside for some purpose, usually to do with recreation."

I would suggest that a bit of outdoors HR is definately "recreation".

Check with the park authority, whatever it is called over there.

73

Brian G8ADD

[n2ize]

I was over in NJ today playing with my mobile rig in a park having a lot of fun, and, just as I was packing up a park security officer asked me if I had missed the "No Loitering" sign at the entrance to the lot. I had, and she was cool about it, and told me that "you can't hang out in the parking lot."

This is not a really big thing outside of it always gives me a creepy feeling to have something like that happen. But do any legal eagles out there know how "loitering" is usually defined?

A web search turned up the definition:



Is playing with radio "standing idly about" or "lingering aimlessly" or "hanging out?"

Guess I'm still feeling a little creepy about it if I'm compelled to raise this issue here. Truth is, there's plenty of other places to do that so there's no real practical issue here.

OTOH, I had a really good day and had two lengthy rag chews with the kind of hams I love to meet. They were both down in Fla and we had good discussions about antennas. One of 'em was running a rhombic and wow, was it effective. He was running 25 watts and was a solid 10-20 over S9 up here. Lucky guy!

Or does this belong in "Talk and Opinions?"

This is typical of all the fascism that it around these days. In the old days we used to hang out in parks, corners and parking lots all the time. It wasn't uncommong to hang out in a park and chill out till the early hours of the morning. The only hassles that we'd sometimes have is that the cops would try to declare a specific closing time and kick everyone out. Usually it was ridiculously early. But most of the time if you managed to duck the origional closing you could hang out and chill all night.

What your seeing it the fear and repression that ronnie brought out and guys like rudy and mike amplified. Two or more people hanging out in a park... arrest them, they must be part of a wicked gang. Someone sitting in one place for too long...get rid of them...must be some kind of a bum.

[KB5FSV]

read this http://www.njslom.org/legal_Q-A-0307.html

[kb2vxa]

Welcome to New Jersey, the home of selective law enforcement. Basically it amounts to whether the cop likes you or not, you take pot luck or at least that's my experience and observation. One interesting note, the first time a cop noticed me at my favorite hill top location on the apron in front of a fire station he just told me when the siren sounds get the heck out of there, I was never disturbed again.

[N8UZE]

Personally I do NOT agree with what the park security did. However, if W1GUH had been set up in the park such as at a picnic table that would not have been loitering as the park is for recreational purposes. However, the parking lot is NOT intended for recreational purposes. It is intended simply as a place to park your car so that you can then enjoy the park (not the parking lot).

Fortunately here the parking lots for our parks do not have such silly rules/signs.

[W1GUH]

Personally I do NOT agree with what the park security did. However, if W1GUH had been set up in the park such as at a picnic table that would not have been loitering as the park is for recreational purposes.

Had the same thought. Well I'll know next time.


What your seeing it the fear and repression that ronnie brought out and guys like rudy and mike amplified. Two or more people hanging out in a park... arrest them, they must be part of a wicked gang. Someone sitting in one place for too long...get rid of them...must be some kind of a bum.

Of course it is. And I do remember the days when "hanging out" was commonplace everywhere. Those were the days.

The guy running a rhombic down in Ocala, Fla, mentioned kind of the same thing. He was on some sort of public land (wonder if he needed permission for the rhombic or if he was being stealthy; I'll have to ask him), and said that it was getting close to sunset and he didn't like being there because of "nefarious characters" - hinting at drug deals/running, etc.

The lot I was in was a back lot that I had specifically picked for privacy, and it's the only one that had the "No Loitering" sign, which I was sure to look for on my way out. (BTW...this was Van Saun Park in Paramus) None of the other lots had that sign. It's possible that that rule is there just to keep drug dealers out. It may have been at one time a hotbed of illegal drug sales. What this adds up to is both of us in the QSO had hassles because drugs are illegal. :confused:

The other point, one I didn't push yesterday, is how law-enforcement sometimes happens. I wasn't about to ask her, she spoke with an attitute that seemed to discourage questions (but could have been anything), but, as someone mentioned, if she had know what I was actually doing it would probably have been OK. Dunno about that, I didn't ask and I was packing up anyway. Also, earlier a security SUV had patrolled the lot and actually parked for a little while where I was in full view. I was expecting to get questioned, but I wasn't. Whoever it was drove past me on the way out without even looking at me. Could be that the incident happed just at dusk and that raised suspicions. I do wish she would have asked me what I was doing. I hate it when the just "assume" something's not right and act on that before checking things out.

Oh, well...it was a good ham day regardless!

[N2RJ]

No cop has ever harrassed me for parking up somewhere and operating.

I used to park right by the Wanaque pumping station in Wayne and operate almost every weekend.

I've also gone to NJ transit stations (Morristown, Morris Plains, Chatham, Wayne-Mountain VIew) and remained parked, and operated while waiting for my wife who was taking the train from NYC. Ditto from the Mother's Park and Ride on Route 23 in Wayne.

If you're not causing any trouble they won't bother you, but in your case you probably met an overzealous cop who wants to exert his authority.

BTW, you should come up my way and drive up to high point (in my town, a few miles from my house). At 1800ft ASL, I was making QSOs with WA on 20 easily, sounding like a local to them as well as hitting repeaters in NYC and south Jersey.

[k4kyv]

I can remember complaints in the early 70's that "hippie" looking types were being arrested for loitering while hanging out in Centennial Park in Nashville, during park hours.

Now doesn't the definition of loitering describe exactly what a public park is for?

[W1GUH]

BTW, you should come up my way and drive up to high point (in my town, a few miles from my house). At 1800ft ASL, I was making QSOs with WA on 20 easily, sounding like a local to them as well as hitting repeaters in NYC and south Jersey.


I used to live in Ringwood, and then Hewitt. I've got Skylands, Ringwood State Park, and High Point on my list.

Now doesn't the definition of loitering describe exactly what a public park is for?

The very first thought I had when I got hassled.

I was expecting to hear "Park closes at dusk."

[w3bny]

I'd just leave it alone man....There parking lot there rules there cops. Or you coulda just said

oh...sorry about that, Im waiting for my wife to get done with the doctor...female stuff ya know.

That may have shut him/her up....or then again...it may not have :(

[G0GQK]

The person who approached you while you were in the park is what we call a "jobsworth". They are always looking for something where that they can exert the power invested in them by the park authority. Raise objections and you are challenging their position of authority to which they will respond by calling the police. Britain has thousands of the pests. The latest bunch are community police, but they are not really police. They usually walk around in pairs and when they stumble on a situation which requires their assistance they see there's going to be a few problems and turn in the opposite direction. One example, a person fell through ice trying to rescue a dog. The community police knowing that Health and Safety laws forbid them to put themselves in jeopardy by rescueing someone who might drown, stood by watching the person floundering until a real cop turned up. He is not permitted to put his life in danger either rules of the H & S but he found a long pole and the person grabbed it and was pulled to safety.

We have rubbish inspectors who fine people for putting the wrong rubbish in the wrong bin, that's how Britain works these days, and put your rubbish bin out too early and that's a fine as well.

G0GQK