Elecraft K3 Verses The Rest?

[N3TU]

How is the K3 stand up to the Icom 756 Pro3, Tentec Omni 7, Kenwood TS2000 and Yaesu radios? My Yaesu FT 840 went up on me and I am looking a good one with good receive filters and excellent audio adjustments to stick out ahead of the pack. Any experiences with the K3, technical support, customer service?

[N4MGA]

Here is a good site to start the comparisons between HF receivers.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html


73's N4MGA

[NZ3M]

Here is a good site to start the comparisons between HF receivers.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html


73's N4MGA

That's if you think the ability to work on a crowded band is the only important thing with a radio.

Dave

[WR8D]

How is the K3 stand up to the Icom 756 Pro3, Tentec Omni 7, Kenwood TS2000 and Yaesu radios? My Yaesu FT 840 went up on me and I am looking a good one with good receive filters and excellent audio adjustments to stick out ahead of the pack. Any experiences with the K3, technical support, customer service?

One would honestly have to have a K3 beside each rig you mention to do a "hands on" test between them. You can't buy one then swear the receiver is the greatest you've ever sat infront of...but that's exactly what most of these guys will do...without the honest A/B test on the same antenna at the same time. Some guys like fords...some like me like the bowties. We all swear ours is better than the other brand.

If someone does not have them all side beside though none of us can give you an honest answer.

I'll put a plug in though for the receiver in the proIII. It's top of the line. Right there with their older flag ship the 775dsp. The 756proI and the proII could'nt touch it but now the proIII is right there with it. Some that have the 775dsp and the proIII and the 7800 say all three are to close to call on receivers. So why spend 12k when you get the receiver for 3k in the proIII??? beats me!!

Go to one of the big dealers where you can get a close up look at some of these rigs. Most places have them hooked up too so you can play them a while.

73 John WR8Dud;)

[KA5S]

How is the K3 stand up to the Icom 756 Pro3, Tentec Omni 7, Kenwood TS2000 and Yaesu radios? My Yaesu FT 840 went up on me and I am looking a good one with good receive filters and excellent audio adjustments to stick out ahead of the pack. Any experiences with the K3, technical support, customer service?

Wandering around the Sherwood site I find a maxim to take to heart: Don't be concerned with variations of a few dB. Elsewhere, is another comment that it is better to have an IMD-limited dynamic range than one limited by phase noise, with which statement I very much agree; when I "upgraded" from an Icom 730 to a 735 some decades ago I was dsimayed with how much noisier the 735 receiver was, and only the fact that I needed far-out-of-band coverage for MARS led me to stick with the 735.

A more significant point, however, is how much of any given parameter you need. I live in a quiet area of Michigan (when my employer lets me) and even some really poor "contest performers" on the Sherwood chart are fine there.

FWIW, if you need a tough receiver with good ultimate selectivity, get an NTIA compliant rig like a Harris 3200 etc.


Cortland
KA5S

[KD8K]

Don't be concerned with variations of a few dB. Elsewhere, is another comment that it is better to have an IMD-limited dynamic range than one limited by phase noise,

Cortland
KA5S

I believe the quote from Rob's site regarding phase limited results is "I feel that all things being equal, we would rather have a radio IMD limited than phase noise limited." If I understand that statement correctly, then if the IMD numbers are equal, he would in that case prefer the radio that is not noise limited. A noise limited number that is greater then another radio that is not noise limited to me is not necessarily a bad thing.The K3's 2Khz number is at a best ever measured 101 db. The next radio on the chart is at 96db. How do you know that the 96 db dynamic range radio would not also have been phase noise limited if it was capable of achieving a 101 db dynamic range? Both radios were not phase limited at the 96db point, but because the K3 had a slightly better dynamic range, the testing continued until the 101db mark where it had a phase limited result. We don't know what the phase noise result would have been for the other radio at the 101db point because the test never made it that far. I don't believe a conclusion can be made one way or the other as to if one is more or less phase noisy from that result. I am not an expert at this, so someone can correct me if I am wrong, but that is the way I understand it. Also, the K3's LO noise numbers actually look quite good to me when compared to the other radio's on that chart. I could locate only one radio on the chart that was better. In my personal opinion, after using the K3 for a month or so, the K3 is a very quiet radio, much quieter then my TS-2000 (which to me has a very noisy, harsh sounding receiver). I have A/B tested the K3 and the TS-2000, and in my view the receiver is MUCH better. Quieter, better filtering, better DSP, lower IMD, with a very clean sounding receiver.

Also, In comparing the K3's 2 Khz IMD numbers to the radio's listed at the beginning of this thread, it beats most, if not all of them by more then 20db. I think it beats the TS-2000 by better then 40db, which really shows up when you compare them side by side. That's a pretty significant difference to me. Whether or not you actually need that much dynamic range may be a different matter, and depends on the way you operate. To me, it was a noticeable improvement.

As far as Elecraft technical support, it has been outstanding. I have had to contact them several times about a few minor issues, and they have responded very quickly, (usually within an hour or two) and have been very helpful, and have resolved every issue that I have had. The reflector is also a good source of help. There are very few companies where you can get help directly from the owners of the company if the need arises.

73,

John, KD8K

[K3WRV]

Both TenTec and Elecraft have excellent customer service, and will talk you through most problems over the phone. TenTec (in my EXPERIENCE) can provide parts for almost every rig they ever sold. Fropm what I hear, Yaecomwood can't do that. From EXPERIENCE, both TT and elecraft make very FB receivers. As far as the transmitters go, 100 W is 100 W.

I don't have either a K-3 or an Omni-7 to play with here, but have played with K-2 and Omni V side by side, and both had very nice receivers and excellent breakin cw. I don't know about the Japanese rigs. But I'd make up my mind based on ease of operation (ergonomics).

I realize you're fixin' to spend (or have spent!) a lot of money on a rig. There is no "BEST" any more. Go find someone who has what you're looking at and spend an afternoon playing with it and see if you like it.

Full disclosure: I'm a Collins and TenTec fanboy.

de Bob

[WA3KYY]

Both TenTec and Elecraft have excellent customer service, and will talk you through most problems over the phone. TenTec (in my EXPERIENCE) can provide parts for almost every rig they ever sold. Fropm what I hear, Yaecomwood can't do that. From EXPERIENCE, both TT and elecraft make very FB receivers. As far as the transmitters go, 100 W is 100 W.




While 100W is 100W, there is more to transmitter comparisons than just power. Transmitted IMD products, keying characteristics, etc are also important. You may be aware of the horrid key click problems on a particular otherwise impressive Yaecommwood radio. All you need do is listen on any given contest weekend to hear some of the transmitter problems on the average rig in use. Most are inherent to the radio itself and not a result of the "all the way to the right" syndrom.

If you were able to copy VP6DX, you could hear how nice the K3 sounded in all modes. They used them to drive ACOM 1KW amps and had no artifacts detectable. They were also able to operate two rigs at 1Kw on the same band without interstation interference. Almost no rigs in the K3 price class can claim that. However, they did use all the tricks a top of the line multi-multi station would use to achieve that but the rig itself was a large part of the success.

It would be nice to see Rob do a transmitter evaluation of the various rigs he has done receive comparisons on to see if the order changes any on his list.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[K0DXC]

I say the K3 wins, hands down.



You know it, don't deny it.

[N4BFD]

Flex 5000 :)

[K7UA]

This is a little off topic, but I got sucked into the Sherwood Engineering statistics and bought a Ten Tec Orion II based on their figures. It was a fine rig, but in the end my old Icom 775DSP could hear things that the Orion II could not. On a crowded band the Orion II may have been better with IMD, but for my use as a Dxer it lost out to the 775. I will never base my choices again solely on Sherwood's statistics.

[WX7Y]

I have had the Ten-Tec Orion II, the Yaesu FT-1000MP MKV and the Flex 5000A

My opinion in side by side SSB test in the real world my results are

1: FLEX5000A is BY FAR the best using the latest firmware / PowerSDR (NO extra filters needed) You need to play with it to belive it.

2: Yaesu FT1000MP MKV second (Rig has INRAD 2.1KHz Filters, roofing filter and all mods AGC, Keyclick etc.)

3: Ten-Tec Orion (latest firmware) is my third choice with all available SSB filters installed, never impressed me with all the hype.

Side by Side tests by importance (my opinion)

Selectivity, Intermod, Readability, Sensitivity, and Ease of use.

I would not put to much credit into some of the reviews and spec WEB sites and reviews they can be VERY biased.

My next purchase in about a week will be the K3, I hope it will live up to all the Hype it has had.

73's

Bret
WX7Y

[VE3PTC]

yes, maybe under horrendous conditions, there may be a perceptable difference, but for the majority of contacts between s5 and s9+, most radio's are in the same ball park. for instance, my ft 101zd has a lower noise floor on the lower frequency's, than my ft 1000mp. does that make it a better all round radio? buy/install a better/bigger/efficient antenna system, because thats where you really notice how well your station works.
fwiw, i would consider looking at a k3, but until they upgrade the shoddy looking case and controls, not to mention the $5 s-meter, that would be rejected from any radio shack model, then i would look at the k3 . its just too cheap looking.
bob. ve3ptc

[W9GB]

How is the K3 stand up to the Icom 756 Pro3, Tentec Omni 7, Kenwood TS2000 and Yaesu radios? My Yaesu FT 840 went up on me and I am looking a good one with good receive filters and excellent audio adjustments to stick out ahead of the pack. Any experiences with the K3, technical support, customer service?
My Elmer would agree with your comments about the FT-840 .. a true value entry level transceiver that I don't think was fully respected in 1980s and early 1990s.
I had the Kenwood TS-440SAT, Icom IC-756Pro and Elecraft K3 in side by side (still own) -- I have previously owned the TS-570G, TenTec Paragon II, TS-530S, SB-301.

My bias opinion -- bias being my personal weighting of various features and criteria

1. Kenwood TS-440SAT.
Gets high marks for user interface (ease of usage); small size/portability; and raised the bar for solid-state transceivers in early 1980s.
BEST FEATURE: Usage of main tuning knob to dial through the 100 memories -- you can not do that on the 756Pro and easier to use than Elecraft K3.

2. Icom IC-756Pro.
This radio raised the bar 15 years later in 2000.
Color LCD display and ability to see the spectrum -- especially during contests -- can not be understated.
BEST FEATURES: Ease of changing features around the LCD display; IF DSP; Spectral display.

3. Elecraft K3.
This radio takes lightweight and capabilities (DSP) to the next level with a 2 line display (no large LCD screen). Ultimate in flexible and small -- perfect for QRP users and well as DXepiditon/Contest users.
BEST FEATURE: The quiet receiver. I can sit this receiver on 7,047.50 kHz and hear nothing in speaker -- dead quiet -- then W1AW booms from the silence like the Morse code is being sent to me in the same room.
Has to be heard to be appreciated

The IC-756Pro III is an incremental improvement over the II and III (IMHO).
I am very interested in the IC-7600 with its wide screen LCD, to see if it can raise the base (again) over the past 10 years.

w9gb

[K8YZK]

My suggestion as others have said is to sit down with ones you are looking at and play with them for awhile if possible. People opinions are just that opinions, and each of us are different.

Not sure how much you want to spend but cost does not mean if you get the most expensive radio that it is the best radio for you, and your type of operation. i am happy with my FT450 and FT950. I also had a FT840 and it was a nice basic radio. I enjoyed my TS-570S(G) and TT Jupiter but did not care for the Argonaut V.

Good luck in your choice

73
Kurt

[K7MH]

but until they upgrade the shoddy looking case and controls, not to mention the $5 s-meter, that would be rejected from any radio shack model, then i would look at the k3 . its just too cheap looking.
bob. ve3ptc
Bob;
Have seen one other than a picture in a magazine? I imagine you have but when I saw one in real life, I was more impressed than I was from the poor quality pictures they use in the ads. I even told them that the pictures in their ads were terrible compared to the real radio. I am still not interested though.

[K2QI]

I had an FT-840. I had the 2.6 filter, TXCO-4 oscillator and FM board installed.

However, I had to run off-board DSP 99% of the time, and the radio has poor IMD numbers. The receiver would intermod/desense around strong signals.

I replaced it with a fully loaded K3. I will never look back.

[VE3PTC]

hi k7mh, yes, i have seen one up close, and even listened to it on 40, and 80m.
i dont think the performance aspect of the radio is in question, i just dont find the layout of the controls, or the general appearance to be attractive to me. its a medium expenseive radio, and i cannot fathom out why they decided on a poor/cheap looking
s-meter for it. if i was paying upwards of $3k for the radio with options, i would expect it to look the part too! for one example. we all make choices, and whether its ham radio, or a car etc, you have to like what you are buying. i assume you dont drive a yugo motor car.
i stick by my initial comments. most of the contacts on hf will be in the range s5 to well over s9. apart from better filtering, almost any radio will perform in a similiar way. maybe if you are talking about eme, or very weak signal work, then yes, but at the end of the day, it comes down to your choice. after all, its going to be staring you in the face everytime you are in the shack, n'est-pas?
like the majority,i have a few radio's in the shack, and i accept they are not perfect, but they do the job for me, and some people only like one particular brand . thats why we are all different, so, i'm not knocking the k3, just saying its not for me!
vy 73 de bob. ve3ptc/gm0ley

[N0CE]

For me, the most important thing in a radio is the receiver. I understand why some people want all the whiz-bang and features. That's okay for them. There is a place for that in Ham Radio.

I don't want a radio that is mostly computer. I don't want to pay for an excess of features I won't use, or can't remember how to use. Radios shouldn't have to cost a fortune. I want dependable communication basics. I want a radio I can repair and align. If I can't fix it, I want to be able to get it fixed.

Many years ago, I bought a new Kenwood TS820 and I thought it was working fine. After exchanging reports with a lot of people, I discovered the Rcvr was cold. I bought the mtc manual and aligned the Receiver section and it became excellent. I could work DX in the narrow cracks between strong signals. I'd still be using it today if it wasn't for the tube finals. (I am interested in the reports about TenTec and Elcraft.)
N0CE

[K0RGR]

If at all possible, make a personal comparison. You may be very surprised at what you choose.

I had the pleasure of operating some of these rigs on Field Day last year.

On CW, we had a K3 and a Kenwood TS-850. I was surprised at how well the old 850 did - it was actually very pleasant to operate in the contest. But, the K3 flatly blew it away. I didn't do that much with the K3, though - I basically just ran long strings of contacts on one frequency. Otheres, who used itmore extensively, complained about the ergonomics.

I also used my IC-7000 and a friends IC-756 Pro III. The PRoIII was the clear winner, but the 7000 wasn't that far behind on SSB. Indeed, the 7000 was the only rig that didn't get blasted with frontend overload. Even the K3 couldn't stand up to a KW on the same band. I think, however, that we may have had issues with RF on the power lines.

I've use many criteria to evaluate radios. I was lucky to live near a Ham Radio Outlet where they always had the most popular rigs available for evaluation. That no longer seems to be the case, anywhere. So, Field Day and other contests really become your best opportunity to try out the latest and greatest.

Years ago, I bought an FT-902DM because the audio was the best I've ever heard. Now, I think I'd lean toward Ten Tec for several reason, great audio being one of them, and the fact that I operate CW and digital 90% of the time. I've mainly been an Icom fan in between, and I don't regret owning two of them.

[WR8D]

How is the K3 stand up to the Icom 756 Pro3, Tentec Omni 7, Kenwood TS2000 and Yaesu radios? My Yaesu FT 840 went up on me and I am looking a good one with good receive filters and excellent audio adjustments to stick out ahead of the pack. Any experiences with the K3, technical support, customer service?

Go find yourself an Icom 775dsp. Icoms one time flagship before the price went to 12k is "still" holding it's own with them all.

--... ...-- WR8D

[PA5MW]

It's not about static benchmark numbers....
It's about fun, so go get a box that does just that for you.

If I were you, I would compare rigs by their user interface, ergonomics etc..

Try the TenTec Omni VII