Ron Paul = Martin Luther King

[KG4JYD]

Unbelievable 2 minute video of Martin Luther King and Ron Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWClI8zsH4

[AE6IP]

You've misspelled "cynically manipulates his audience by quoting from Martin Luther King, whom he neither understood nor resembles"

but thanks for playing.

[KG4JYD]

Bump - this video is powerful

[KB1KIX]

Ron Paul is not a minister, black nor assassinated.

He doesn't "=" Martin Luther King at all.

Yet another reason why people just don't like Ronnettes.

Jonathan

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,18:14)]You've misspelled "cynically manipulates his audience by quoting from Martin Luther King, whom he neither understood nor resembles"

but thanks for playing.
Ahhh, Martin, give the boy a break. He DID note that the video is 'unbelievable,' and it is hard to quibble with that description.

[AE6IP]

I'm trying to figure out why Paul's style of libertarians would want a positive comparison with King, anyway?

Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,18:37)]I'm trying to figure out why Paul's style of libertarians would want a positive comparison with King, anyway?

Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.
The reason is quite simple. It is called 'desperation.' When one is in free fall in so far as the bulk of the responsible electorate of the nation is concerned, one needs to kick over every can in the alley.

I once saw an old film clip of a Navy dirigible on which a bunch of men clung to a mooring line in an attempt to moor the behemoth before it floated off in a gust. The gust lifted the ship quickly, and many of the men still clinging to the line suddenly found themselves wafted a few hundred feet in the air. The luckiest were them who let go early and merely broke legs or other bones.

It was the gripping sight of those who still clung, only to fall singly, arms and legs thrashing frantically as they plunged that still haunts me when I think of the film.

That's how I see the Paul Pack. Growing desperation as their bubble rises to the dizzying heights of a few decimals in a contest that will be determined without them. They will grasp and cling to anything, however odd -- even the few who really understand anything he is preaching. The very few.

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,18:37)]Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.
Or you could argue that it is a right that all people have period based on following our own personal liberties (of course, as long as they don't infringe on anyone elses).

You''re point is interesting to note as well.

Jonathan

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ Jan. 21 2008,14:47)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,18:37)]Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.
Or you could argue that it is a right that all people have period based on following our own personal liberties (of course, as long as they don't infringe on anyone elses).

You''re point is interesting to note as well.

Jonathan
You can argue that the right not to be considered based on stereotype is an inalienable right, and I would do so, but Dr King argued more than that. He argued that the solution to the problem of stereotypes was social action, something that purist libertarians argue does not exist.

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Jan. 21 2008,14:47)]I once saw an old film clip of a Navy dirigible on which a bunch of men clung to a mooring line in an attempt to moor the behemoth before it floated off in a gust. The gust lifted the ship quickly, and many of the men still clinging to the line suddenly found themselves wafted a few hundred feet in the air. The luckiest were them who let go early and merely broke legs or other bones.

It was the gripping sight of those who still clung, only to fall singly, arms and legs thrashing frantically as they plunged that still haunts me when I think of the film.
As un unrelated aside, if you're referring to the footage I think you are, the dirigible in question would be the ill fated Macon, and the event happened a few miles south of where I am no sitting, at then NAS Moffet, where the last remaining dirigible hanger still sits.

The Macon, alas, was an unlucky ship and went down off the coast with all hands aboard. However it was a lucky crew, as all but two survived.

I have dived the water where the Macon went down and am impressed that those men survived that weather.

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,16:02)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Jan. 21 2008,14:47)]I once saw an old film clip of a Navy dirigible on which a bunch of men clung to a mooring line in an attempt to moor the behemoth before it floated off in a gust. The gust lifted the ship quickly, and many of the men still clinging to the line suddenly found themselves wafted a few hundred feet in the air. The luckiest were them who let go early and merely broke legs or other bones.

It was the gripping sight of those who still clung, only to fall singly, arms and legs thrashing frantically as they plunged that still haunts me when I think of the film.
As un unrelated aside, if you're referring to the footage I think you are, the dirigible in question would be the ill fated Macon, and the event happened a few miles south of where I am no sitting, at then NAS Moffet, where the last remaining dirigible hanger still sits.

The Macon, alas, was an unlucky ship and went down off the coast with all hands aboard. However it was a lucky crew, as all but two survived.

I have dived the water where the Macon went down and am impressed that those men survived that weather.


Tillamook (OR) has an air museum that was once a dirigible hangar. It's similar in size to the two smaller hangars (2 and 3) they had at NAS Moffett. I noticed the resemblance the first time I drove through Tillamook. Of course, I think Hangar 1 is unique.

I used to work right across the freeway from the end of the runway at Moffett during the latter part of the Vietnam war, when they at least briefly flew C5-A's in and out of there. I fully appreciate the term "aluminum overcast" as it would get pretty dark for quite a while when one of those flew over.

Comparing Paul to King? I didn't watch the video. Does Paul have a dream, too? Is it really a dream, or a nightmare? "I dream that someday, rich white people will be able to do whatever they want, without fear of government regulation."

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 21 2008,15:19)]Tillamook (OR) has an air museum that was once a dirigible hangar. It's similar in size to the two smaller hangars (2 and 3) they had at NAS Moffett. I noticed the resemblance the first time I drove through Tillamook. Of course, I think Hangar 1 is unique.

I believe it had such a museum. Alas, it burned down, IIRC.

I remember the first time I drove up that way. After days of coastal lumber camps I was a bit surprised to find the hanger sitting there in the middle of the field.

Quote[/b] ]I used to work right across the freeway from the end of the runway at Moffett during the latter part of the Vietnam war, when they at least briefly flew C5-A's in and out of there. I fully appreciate the term "aluminum overcast" as it would get pretty dark for quite a while when one of those flew over.

No kidding. They sometimes fly C5s into Moffett still, to move satellites for Lockheed. They even sound dark.

You work for Fairchild or one of the spinoffs?

I was sad when they finally tore the rust bucket down.

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 21 2008,19:19)]Comparing Paul to King? I didn't watch the video. Does Paul have a dream, too? Is it really a dream, or a nightmare? "I dream that someday, rich white people will be able to do whatever they want, without fear of government regulation."
Thats basically what it is all about not matter what the phonies try to tell you, no thanks...

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,15:37)]I'm trying to figure out why Paul's style of libertarians would want a positive comparison with King, anyway?

Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.
Because it's all about equality under the law.

And rights don't belong to groups. They belong to individuals.

Did you watch the video?

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 21 2008,19:19)]Comparing Paul to King? I didn't watch the video. Does Paul have a dream, too? Is it really a dream, or a nightmare? "I dream that someday, rich white people will be able to do whatever they want, without fear of government regulation."
PS: They haven't got the average white individuals best interest at heart either. I am pretty sure they do to them just as much evil as they would to any minority. Sometime I make my remarks as jokes but I am serious.

[kc4ylv]

Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ Jan. 21 2008,13:36)]PS: They haven't got the average white individuals best interest at heart either. I am pretty sure they do to them just as much evil as they would to any minority. Sometime I make my remarks as jokes but I am serious.
the average ron paul supporter is 40-60, male, with health insurance, a retirement fund, and crippling fear of money leaving their hands and going somewhere else, especially if it would improve a less fortunate person's quality of life

[KG4JYD]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/21/PH2008012101811.jpghttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn....811.jpg (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/21/PH2008012101811.jpg)

[kc4ylv]

now post a picture of a cute baby dying because ron paul got elected and her parent got outbid on the only available CAT scan auction ;)

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kc4ylv @ Jan. 21 2008,18:44)]Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ Jan. 21 2008,13:36)]PS: They haven't got the average white individuals best interest at heart either. I am pretty sure they do to them just as much evil as they would to any minority. Sometime I make my remarks as jokes but I am serious.
the average ron paul supporter is 40-60, male, with health insurance, a retirement fund, and crippling fear of money leaving their hands and going somewhere else, especially if it would improve a less fortunate person's quality of life
Demographic data for Paul:

Youthful group. (http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/articles/ron-paul-internet-supporters-demographic-data.html)

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kc4ylv @ Jan. 21 2008,18:54)]now post a picture of a cute baby dying because ron paul got elected and her parent got outbid on the only available CAT scan auction ;)
In the picture, the baby is attempting to claw out Dr. Paul's eye, so it looks like we've lost that demographic to Huckleberry...

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Jan. 21 2008,18:32)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,15:37)]I'm trying to figure out why Paul's style of libertarians would want a positive comparison with King, anyway?

Apparently they don't realize that the civil in 'civil rights' refers to the sort of social group rights that they claim don't exist.
Because it's all about equality under the law.

And rights don't belong to groups. They belong to individuals.
Um, Matt?

A word of advice: Don't go jumping up and proving my point for me. It does your cause no good and takes all the fun out of the intarwebs.

Have you ever listened to all of Dr King's often repeated speech?

We cannot walk alone.

is contrary to your libertarian credo.

Dr King was a socialist, Matt. He believed in, among other things "racial justice".

As I said, there is no resemblance between King and Paul. There is merely Paul's cynical quoting of King in an attempt to distance himself from his past racist connections.

Oh, and my condolences on the moneybomb. looks like you're going to miss the target by a factor of five this time.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Dr King was a socialist, Matt. He believed in, among other things "racial justice".

True.

Quote[/b] ]As I said, there is no resemblance between King and Paul. There is merely Paul's cynical quoting of King in an attempt to distance himself from his past racist connections.


BS. Ron Paul want's to bring about change, freedom that MLK might have embraced.

His "racist past" is a red herring, not supported by fact, parroted by those who want to divert from issues.

[kc4ylv]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 21 2008,14:00)]Demographic data for Paul:

Youthful group. (http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/articles/ron-paul-internet-supporters-demographic-data.html)
18-24 year olds also think _Atlas Shrugged_ is an inspiring and logical book with valid points. That doesn't mean that they understand the implications of the society postulated there, and generally as soon as they do, they see the book for the thinly veiled robber-baron rape fantasy it is.

If you noticed, lots of Ronpaul fans are also Rand fans.

Common thread? "Screw you, I got mine."

Riddle me this, why does Ronpaul have the lowest support from the demographic group most exposed to the current economy, the 25-44 group? Looks to me like the main groups of people who support him are either those who aren't old enough to have significant experience _actually living_ in today's world, or those who have 'gotten theirs' and don't feel that they should pay back into the society that carried them for half a century.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]
Common thread? "Screw you, I got mine."


Beats, screw you, gimme yours.

[kc4ylv]

Quote[/b] (KC9IUX @ Jan. 21 2008,15:19)]Quote[/b] ]
Common thread? "Screw you, I got mine."


Beats, screw you, gimme yours.
It's a good thing we don't have to choose from one or the other, then!


nasty false dilemma, that

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]It's a good thing we don't have to choose from one or the other, then!


nasty false dilemma, that

Hardly.

Explain food stamps, welfare, corporate welfare, EIC and others, another way.

[kc4ylv]

Quote[/b] (KC9IUX @ Jan. 21 2008,15:27)]Quote[/b] ]It's a good thing we don't have to choose from one or the other, then!


nasty false dilemma, that

Hardly.

Explain food stamps, welfare, corporate welfare, EIC and others, another way.
Oh, those are actually just crutches for those lesser Americans who haven't bootstrapped themselves up into the upper class, of course. Nothing at all to do with empathy, or compassion, or understanding that even a good life has bad streaks, or even the teachings of a certain long-haired bearded man who just happened to improve the world a little bit (and whom Paulsies so often and so confusingly claim to follow).

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (KC9IUX @ Jan. 21 2008,20:16)]Quote[/b] ]As I said, there is no resemblance between King and Paul. There is merely Paul's cynical quoting of King in an attempt to distance himself from his past racist connections.


BS. Ron Paul want's to bring about change, freedom that MLK might have embraced.
Alas, no. Ron Paul's "freedom" would be a step back for the civil rights movement, and Dr King would see that in an instant.

Men whose ancestors were sold as commodities are not such big fans of "free markets" as all that.

While Paul's nutty reading of the Constitution would lead to nothing so draconian as a return to slave markets, it would lead to dismantling many of the federal activities which have worked to ensure equality -- and I do not mean quotas, I mean "separate is never truly equal" and its consequences.

Do not mistake me for those who think Paul was or is a racist. That misses the point of his duplicity. Paul was and is an opportunist, once allowing racist writing to be published under his name, for over a decade, and now glibly quoting Martin Luther King, not because he believes in King's social agenda, but because it serves him to appear to.

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 22 2008,00:50)]Alas, no. Ron Paul's "freedom" would be a step back for the civil rights movement, and Dr King would see that in an instant.

Men whose ancestors were sold as commodities are not such big fans of "free markets" as all that.

While Paul's nutty reading of the Constitution would lead to nothing so draconian as a return to slave markets, it would lead to dismantling many of the federal activities which have worked to ensure equality -- and I do not mean quotas, I mean "separate is never truly equal" and its consequences.

Do not mistake me for those who think Paul was or is a racist. That misses the point of his duplicity. Paul was and is an opportunist, once allowing racist writing to be published under his name, for over a decade, and now glibly quoting Martin Luther King, not because he believes in King's social agenda, but because it serves him to appear to.
Dr Evil has a very strong stand on property rights I suppose that could be the basis of a return to slavery under the constitootional government of St Pauly Boy.
The people who love Pauly are naught more then Hoarding Sycophants, Bigots, Militiamen, and mental deficients.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Oh, those are actually just crutches for those lesser Americans who haven't bootstrapped themselves up into the upper class, of course. Nothing at all to do with empathy, or compassion, or understanding that even a good life has bad streaks, or even the teachings of a certain long-haired bearded man who just happened to improve the world a little bit (and whom Paulsies so often and so confusingly claim to follow).


You didn't explain how that isn't "screw you, gimme yours".

You have no idea.

I have inhabited many social strata.

I have been offered food stamps for cash( 60 cents on the dollar is typical).

The medicaid scams for pain pills are rampant.

Cash payments for not working don't fit in "screw you, gimme mine"?

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Alas, no. Ron Paul's "freedom" would be a step back for the civil rights movement, and Dr King would see that in an instant.

How?

Quote[/b] ]Men whose ancestors were sold as commodities are not such big fans of "free markets" as all that.


Really?

Supported by our central government at that time? Hardly a free market.



Quote[/b] ]The people who love Pauly are naught more then Hoarding Sycophants, Bigots, Militiamen, and mental deficients.

More ad homenem attacks, spread the hate. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,20:56)]is contrary to your libertarian credo.

Dr King was a socialist, Matt. He believed in, among other things "racial justice".

As I said, there is no resemblance between King and Paul. There is merely Paul's cynical quoting of King in an attempt to distance himself from his past racist connections.
King brought about change of social injustice using nonviolent means. And he fought for people's rights. Those two things are very similar to Ron Paul.


But yes he was also a socialist.


Apparently you didn't watch the video so you didn't "get it"

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (KC9IUX @ Jan. 21 2008,21:19)]screw you, gimme yours.
You just summed up socialism / communism / welfare

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Jan. 21 2008,23:32)]Quote[/b] (KC9IUX @ Jan. 21 2008,21:19)]screw you, gimme yours.
You just summed up socialism / communism / welfare
No,you did. You've summed it up with the "Ive got mine so too bad for you" ideology. Unfortunately under the RP/constitutionalist mentality you will have nothing in short order. Unfortunately you can't understand that. But someday you very likely will.

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 21 2008,23:36)]You've summed it up with the "Ive got mine so too bad for you" ideology. Unfortunately under the RP/constitutionalist mentality you will have nothing in short order. Unfortunately you can't understand that. But someday you very likely will.
I never said any such thing.

And you are incorrect. But I'd like to hear your laughable arguments for it anyway. It'll be amusing I'm sure.

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Jan. 21 2008,22:31)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 21 2008,20:56)]is contrary to your libertarian credo.

Dr King was a socialist, Matt. He believed in, among other things "racial justice".

As I said, there is no resemblance between King and Paul. There is merely Paul's cynical quoting of King in an attempt to distance himself from his past racist connections.
King brought about change of social injustice using nonviolent means. And he fought for people's rights. Those two things are very similar to Ron Paul.


Um, Paul's never brought about change of social injustice and he's never done anything like the 'nonviolent means' of King.

I realize you're too young to understand what Martin Luther King accomplished, but your comparison is like suggesting that NASCAR racing is like going to the moon because "they both involve going real fast".

Quote[/b] ]
But yes he was also a socialist.

Apparently you didn't watch the video so you didn't "get it"

I did watch the video. I saw it before you brought it up. It clearly shows a cynical attempt to capitalize on Martin Luther King by mindlessly quoting from King's speeches without understanding them.

The New Republic reports that a mere fifteen years ago, Dr Paul had this published under his name, in his now infamous newsletter:

Quote[/b] ]Martin Luther King Jr. earned special ire from Paul's newsletters, which attacked the civil rights leader frequently, often to justify opposition to the federal holiday named after him. ("What an infamy Ronald Reagan approved it!" one newsletter complained in 1990. "We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day.") In the early 1990s, newsletters attacked the "X-Rated Martin Luther King" as a "world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours," "seduced underage girls and boys," and "made a pass at" fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy. One newsletter ridiculed black activists who wanted to rename New York City after King, suggesting that "Welfaria," "Zooville," "Rapetown," "Dirtburg," and "Lazyopolis" were better alternatives. The same year, King was described as "a comsymp, if not an actual party member, and the man who replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration."

Now suddenly, King is a 'hero' to Paul?

Only someone young, dumb and naive would believe that Paul would allow such things to be written about a "hero."

No, Matt, Paul is not at all like King. He's just another congress critter whose duplicity is finally coming home to roost.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Jan. 21 2008,22:42)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 21 2008,23:36)]You've summed it up with the "Ive got mine so too bad for you" ideology. Unfortunately under the RP/constitutionalist mentality you will have nothing in short order. Unfortunately you can't understand that. But someday you very likely will.
I never said any such thing.

And you are incorrect. But I'd like to hear your laughable arguments for it anyway. It'll be amusing I'm sure.
n2ize thinks the American dream is stalled because we do not have enough government yet. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 21 2008,23:56)]n2ize thinks the American dream is stalled because we do not have enough government yet. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Ahhh - what a good socialist he is