California Wants to Control your Thermostat

[ac4r]

Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.

[WA6MHZ]

Oh the LUXURY of heating and air conditioning. My house has NO heating ducts, or air condx. It gets hot in the summer, cold in the winter, but it is Never really hot or cold because it is SAN DIEGO climate, perfect all year round. A little chilly at times, a bit too warm at times, but NEVER that uncomfortable. So who needs heating?

[KG6GMX]

Title 24 is a state response to UN Agenda 21. Don't know about Agenda 21? Google Agenda 21 to learn more!



A planned community by the UN just for you and your family!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (KG6GMX @ Jan. 09 2008,12:17)]Title 24 is a state response to UN Agenda 21. Don't know about Agenda 21? Google Agenda 21 to learn more!



A planned community by the UN just for you and your family!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
The UN's desire to be a world government. What a joke.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
What's your source? Linky, please...

I suspect I know the answer...

[KC4RAN]

Or maybe if we hadn't decided that we needed to make it nigh impossible to build those pesky little infrastructure pieces... you know, like nuclear power plants, coal-fired power plants, gas-fired power plants, gasoline refineries... we might have enough supply to meet the increasing demand that our society is placing on this infrastructure?

Nah... better to be 'green' - and apparently, 'in the dark' is the 'green' that Kalifornia has been inadvertently shooting for.

Back to candles and hand-fans for the whole state, I say.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,11:58)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
What's your source? Linky, please...

I suspect I know the answer...
Are you thinking of the Stinker? (http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/who_will_control_your_thermost.html) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 09 2008,15:36)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,11:58)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
What's your source? Linky, please...

I suspect I know the answer...
Are you thinking of the Stinker? (http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/who_will_control_your_thermost.html) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Better source (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22438)

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Is there a provision for people that have solar cells installed and provide the bulk of their electricity and even supply electricity to the grid when they're generating a surplus?

After all, after watching a ton of Discovery Channel, there are a lot of new homes out there retrofitted with their own power generation devices and some of them actually produce enough of a surplus to where the utility company pays them each month. It would suck if you invest in all of this and the utility you're helping out all of a sudden sets your thermostat to a temp you're not comfortable at.

I wonder how long it will be before they start selling jammers for these things as well. One could probably cover an entire neighborhood..........lol

Jerry

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 09 2008,12:46)]Better source (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22438)
That is still just a link to the Stinker.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 09 2008,16:06)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 09 2008,12:46)]Better source (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22438)
That is still just a link to the Stinker.
Yes it is.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:02)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.
Do you support Bush ? Do you support the PATRIOT act. Do you support what Bush did with regards to pbtaining peoples phone records without going through proper legal channels ? Do you support #the war in Iraq. if you answered yes to any of the above you probably are far more in love with Big Brother than I am or ever will be. Nuff said about that.

Measures like this (if it's even true and not a lot of right wing malarkey) wouldn;t be nessesary if we spent some money improving our electrical infrastructure and in addition moved towards renewable energy resources.i.e. solar cells, solar heating, wind, water, etc. There are many measures that can be taken without having to trash the environment in the process. Then you might be able to keep your home at 55 degrees on the hottest days without having to worry about blacking out half the country.

In many respects this would make a lot more sense than some of the things power companies presently do in emergencies such as load shedding and/or rolling blackouts.

[wd0ct]

It is about time we are forced to come to our senses. Now if the good folks in CA would mandate that all new cars and suvs be plug in hybrids. Also everyone under 45 years of age and living within ten miles from their place of employment shall be made to walk or ride bicycles to work.

While they are at it, they should ban all plug in resistance heaters, kerosene heaters, and window air conditioners

This is all for the common good and the citizens of the USA should stop being the world's prime energy pigs and let China have that title.

More good people in St Charles Missouri are going to ban public cussing. None too soon I say. When Huckabee becomes president we will have a national ban on cussing. This step will result in our becoming a nation of non cussing, god fearing, evangelical, bisexual republicans.

All will once again be right with our world.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ Jan. 09 2008,15:07)]
Quote[/b] ]
It is about time we are forced to come to our senses. Now if the good folks in CA would mandate that all new cars and suvs be plug in hybrids


That wouldn't be a bad idea. Since cars have become the only means of transportation for many people to get to work manufacturers should be obligated to reduce oversized gas guzzlers and start producing more energy efficient cars.

[KC9JIQ]

Trivia: how many power plants have been built in california since the rolling blackouts around January 18, 2001?

[G0GQK]

Good grief ! I would never have believed that CA could become the Peoples Democratic Republic of California. It was a bad move making the USSR drop communism because if the Russians did it, America wouldn't copy them commies. So Arnie thinks, I vill bring some gut Austrian order into dis place, you can only hev power ven I say so, Ya ! And, if you don't obey, I vill terminate yous

G0GQK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2RJ]

I dunno, I at least wish they would apply CAFE standards and fuel economy ratings to light trucks the way they do to passenger cars.

As it is, many light trucks get a big exemption

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,14:47)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:02)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.
Do you support Bush ? Do you support the PATRIOT act. Do you support what Bush did with regards to pbtaining peoples phone records without going through proper legal channels ? Do you support #the war in Iraq. if you answered yes to any of the above you probably are far more in love with Big Brother than I am or ever will be. Nuff said about that.

Measures like this (if it's even true and not a lot of right wing malarkey) wouldn;t be nessesary if we spent some money improving our electrical infrastructure and in addition moved towards renewable energy resources.i.e. solar cells, solar heating, wind, water, etc. #There are many measures that can be taken without having to trash the environment in the process. Then you might be able to keep your home at 55 degrees on the hottest days without having to worry about blacking out half the country.

In many respects this would make a lot more sense than some of the things power companies presently do in emergencies such as load shedding and/or rolling blackouts.
Rolling blackouts, oh ,that a north thing. Never happens here.

[W7WV]

Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:29)]Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.
It IS a good idea for the new bulbs.

If you'd unglue your brain from talk radio and garbage like American Stinker, you'd realize compact flourescents are a great idea.

I've used them for years, and I've only had one burn out in 7 years. They are far more efficient and put out the same amount of light.

You still haven't answered IZE's questions. You're babbling about "big brother", but do you support the Patriot Act? I'll be you do.

You need to stop letting your AM radio dictate your thought patterns and think for yourself for a change.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:21)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,14:47)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:02)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.
Do you support Bush ? Do you support the PATRIOT act. Do you support what Bush did with regards to pbtaining peoples phone records without going through proper legal channels ? Do you support #the war in Iraq. if you answered yes to any of the above you probably are far more in love with Big Brother than I am or ever will be. Nuff said about that.

Measures like this (if it's even true and not a lot of right wing malarkey) wouldn;t be nessesary if we spent some money improving our electrical infrastructure and in addition moved towards renewable energy resources.i.e. solar cells, solar heating, wind, water, etc. #There are many measures that can be taken without having to trash the environment in the process. Then you might be able to keep your home at 55 degrees on the hottest days without having to worry about blacking out half the country.

In many respects this would make a lot more sense than some of the things power companies presently do in emergencies such as load shedding and/or rolling blackouts.
Rolling blackouts, oh ,that a north thing. Never happens here.
Last time we had a rolling blackout, genius, was during the ENRON scam in the early part of the century.

Gee, guess who was good buddies with Kenny boy Lay of Enron. Your big brother George Bush.

Get REAL.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,17:24)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:29)]Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.
It IS a good idea for the new bulbs.

If you'd unglue your brain from talk radio and garbage like American Stinker, you'd realize compact flourescents are a great idea.

I've used them for years, and I've only had one burn out in 7 years. They are far more efficient and put out the same amount of light.

You still haven't answered IZE's questions. You're babbling about "big brother", but do you support the Patriot Act? I'll be you do.

You need to stop letting your AM radio dictate your thought patterns and think for yourself for a change.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Yes I support the Patroit Act, waterboarding, and wire taps on calls coming from outside the US . Any more questions ?

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Only from a Neocon.

Neocons love nothing better than to stick their noses in other people's business.

Obviously, you don't live in California, but this seems to be a major issue for you.

Scratch the question ... I see you answered it. Neocons normally don't answer questions. You're still in training, eh? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[AC0H]

We've has a voluntary program like this for 5 years now. The power company can raise the temp of the thermostat during the summer on peak use days. Same program for business and residential customers. They give you a pretty sizable incentive to do it too.

I have a problem with the government mandate angle. I also have a problem with the enviromentalist wacko's who've made it nearly impossible for California utilities to build new generating capacity, whatever sort.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,16:29)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,17:24)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:29)]Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.
It IS a good idea for the new bulbs.

If you'd unglue your brain from talk radio and garbage like American Stinker, you'd realize compact flourescents are a great idea.

I've used them for years, and I've only had one burn out in 7 years. They are far more efficient and put out the same amount of light.

You still haven't answered IZE's questions. You're babbling about "big brother", but do you support the Patriot Act? I'll be you do.

You need to stop letting your AM radio dictate your thought patterns and think for yourself for a change.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Yes I support the Patroit Act, waterboarding, and wire taps on calls coming from outside the US . Any more questions ?
Ok, then why the whining about "Big Brother", when the Patriot Act is precisely that?

Are you one of these guys who hides under his bed at night worrying about AyRabs, so you're willing to give away your civil liberties to a bunch of Bushspeak protofascists?

Get help, NOW!

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:29)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,17:24)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:29)]Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.
It IS a good idea for the new bulbs.

If you'd unglue your brain from talk radio and garbage like American Stinker, you'd realize compact flourescents are a great idea.

I've used them for years, and I've only had one burn out in 7 years. They are far more efficient and put out the same amount of light.

You still haven't answered IZE's questions. You're babbling about "big brother", but do you support the Patriot Act? I'll be you do.

You need to stop letting your AM radio dictate your thought patterns and think for yourself for a change.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Yes I support the Patroit Act, waterboarding, and wire taps on calls coming from outside the US . Any more questions ?
Well, at least we know you are an avid Big Brother supporter. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,17:27)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:21)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,14:47)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:02)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.
Do you support Bush ? Do you support the PATRIOT act. Do you support what Bush did with regards to pbtaining peoples phone records without going through proper legal channels ? Do you support #the war in Iraq. if you answered yes to any of the above you probably are far more in love with Big Brother than I am or ever will be. Nuff said about that.

Measures like this (if it's even true and not a lot of right wing malarkey) wouldn;t be nessesary if we spent some money improving our electrical infrastructure and in addition moved towards renewable energy resources.i.e. solar cells, solar heating, wind, water, etc. #There are many measures that can be taken without having to trash the environment in the process. Then you might be able to keep your home at 55 degrees on the hottest days without having to worry about blacking out half the country.

In many respects this would make a lot more sense than some of the things power companies presently do in emergencies such as load shedding and/or rolling blackouts.
Rolling blackouts, oh ,that a north thing. Never happens here.
Last time we had a rolling blackout, genius, was during the ENRON scam in the early part of the century.

Gee, guess who was good buddies with Kenny boy Lay of Enron. Your big brother George Bush.

Get REAL.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 09 2008,13:06)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 09 2008,12:46)]Better source (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22438)
That is still just a link to the Stinker.
However, the "Stinker" does have THIS link:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2007pub....DAY.PDF (http://www.energy.ca.gov/2007publications/CEC-400-2007-017/CEC-400-2007-017-45DAY.PDF)

Do a search for "non-removable" and you'll see the discussed provision.

Not like it wouldn't be hard to replace the thermostat from out of state.

[W1GUH]

How many commie pinko libs/knee-jerk-o-cons/born again cristians/FM's/rabid dogs does it take to change a CFL?

Your guess is as good as mine, but, happily, they don't have to do it very often.

I just don't believe the "resistance" to CFL's. #No wait! #I just got it. #They take less energy, ergo, they generate more "resistance."

Problem solved! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Uh, but nobody wants them. CF is the way to go.

[al2n]

Only and idiot would have something against the new energy saving light bulbs.

This neocon has been using them for years and is enjoying the savings they provide and the long life they have. Like Dave, I have probably changed out one bulb in the last 5 years.

Embrace new technology, do not shun it. That is part of what being a ham radio operator is all about.

As for thermostat control, they do that already. They are called rolling blackouts. If the last several Presidents would have actually put some funding into improving the power grid rather than lip service to the masses, it would not be an issue.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,16:37)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,17:27)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:21)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,14:47)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,13:02)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,12:57)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,11:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
Well, maybe if we spent less money on Bush's corrupt wars and more money on improving our nations electrical infrastructiure along with sensible research and development and adoption of alternative and renewable energy sources measures like this wouldn't be nessesary. As it stands right now I'd rather have the power company raise the setting of my air conditioner +/- 4 degrees as opposed to having a total blackout in the midst of a 100+ degree heatwave.
I am sure you would. You love that big brother control.
Do you support Bush ? Do you support the PATRIOT act. Do you support what Bush did with regards to pbtaining peoples phone records without going through proper legal channels ? Do you support #the war in Iraq. if you answered yes to any of the above you probably are far more in love with Big Brother than I am or ever will be. Nuff said about that.

Measures like this (if it's even true and not a lot of right wing malarkey) wouldn;t be nessesary if we spent some money improving our electrical infrastructure and in addition moved towards renewable energy resources.i.e. solar cells, solar heating, wind, water, etc. #There are many measures that can be taken without having to trash the environment in the process. Then you might be able to keep your home at 55 degrees on the hottest days without having to worry about blacking out half the country.

In many respects this would make a lot more sense than some of the things power companies presently do in emergencies such as load shedding and/or rolling blackouts.
Rolling blackouts, oh ,that a north thing. Never happens here.
Last time we had a rolling blackout, genius, was during the ENRON scam in the early part of the century.

Gee, guess who was good buddies with Kenny boy Lay of Enron. Your big brother George Bush.

Get REAL.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.
That's my point, we DON'T, either. Where did you get the idea that we do?

It's obvious you don't choose to see the truth, it's just more fun to believe dittohead nonsense.

What is with you guys anyway? ARe you just looking to bash a region of the country?

Don't go there, your region is too much of a ripe target...I choose not to say anything unless provoked. What's your excuse?

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:37)]Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.
They actually have electricity down there?

[W1GUH]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ Jan. 08 2008,18:50)]Only and idiot would have something against the new energy saving light bulbs.

This neocon has been using them for years and is enjoying the savings they provide and the long life they have. #Like Dave, I have probably changed out one bulb in the last 5 years. #

Embrace new technology, do not shun it. #That is part of what being a ham radio operator is all about.

As for thermostat control, they do that already. #They are called rolling blackouts. #If the last several Presidents would have actually put some funding into improving the power grid rather than lip service to the masses, it would not be an issue.
Quote[/b] ]As for thermostat control, they do that already. #They are called rolling blackouts. #If the last several Presidents would have actually put some funding into improving the power grid rather than lip service to the masses, it would not be an issue.

Especially the NE blackout in, what, 1993?

On but... (and you called yourself a neocon in that reply)...wouldn't that be the government meddling in the affairs of the power companies? #That are private corporations? #And aren't those coporations completely benevelont and capable of building a fine power grid all by themselves without the government's intervention? #And they would spend what it takes to provide us with a fine, reliable system for distributing electrical energy?

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Jan. 09 2008,17:54)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:37)]Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.
They actually have electricity down there?
Only on weekends

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:01)]Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Jan. 09 2008,17:54)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:37)]Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.
They actually have electricity down there?
Only on weekends
During NASCAR?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ Jan. 09 2008,18:48)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:01)]Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Jan. 09 2008,17:54)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,17:37)]Sorry ole pal we did not have blackouts in the south. You chose to live on the left coast deal with it.
They actually have electricity down there?
Only on weekends
During NASCAR?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You got it !

[ac4r]

Next you guys will start making fun of my girlfriends tooth . When she smiles it looks like the headlight on a motorcycle .

[kf6rdn]

Nah..
I like motorcycles..
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[N0WVA]

Welcome to your new one world government, which is shaping up right under your very noses. Its all about control, soon you will only be able to have so much food in your freezer and not be able to grow food or meat.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]
Quote[/b] ]
It is about time we are forced to come to our senses. Now if the good folks in CA would mandate that all new cars and suvs be plug in hybrids


That wouldn't be a bad idea. Since cars have become the only means of transportation for many people to get to work manufacturers should be obligated to reduce oversized gas guzzlers and start producing more energy efficient cars.
If I wanted to live in the nanny state of California, I would live there. You couldn't drag me back with a court order. If anyone else wants to live there, it's a personal decision. Certain liberal left coasters don't like the Gulf Coast. We don't like liberal left coasters so it works out.

Too bad our Florida governor is taking pages from Ahnolds playbook and trying to ram California solutions down the throat of the Florida electorate. His political stock has taken a beating over his increasing use of executive orders to push through an agenda he knows the state Legislature would never pass.

Adopting California emissions standards, energy policies, and other social engineering schemes is making Charlie Crist about as popular as a horse turd in a punch bowl.

You know all of the 'good ole boys' ride around in big pickup trucks and all of the soccer moms use those big SUVs for the sole reason that it drives the social nanny types to apoplexy, don't you?

Gas has gone up 20 cents a gallon here. Diesel remains steady at $3.39
Still too much money, but I'm not getting surprised every day at the pump. As for hybrid cars and trucks, where does the ELECTRICITY come from to refuel them? Coal fired power plants and nuclear reactors, that's where! The pollutants just come from somewhere else. So much for your statements about hybrids saving the planet.

At least I can run my truck on filtered fryer oil, drive by your house and give you the munchies from the french fry scented exhaust. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KD6NIG]

Must be something new then.

I know right now you can apply for such a program and by doing so you agree to one hour curtailments as needed. But I didn't know it was mandatory.

Course, if they can just adjust it back, I don't see how it will work too well.

Turning the power off for an hour is an adjustment that can't be tampered with http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Turning up the thermostat a few clicks would probably be a better idea than the rolling blackout plan. The only problem I see with it is people will just change it right back http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Jan. 09 2008,19:46)]How many commie pinko libs/knee-jerk-o-cons/born again cristians/FM's/rabid dogs does it take to change a CFL?

Your guess is as good as mine, but, happily, they don't have to do it very often.

I just don't believe the "resistance" to CFL's. #No wait! #I just got it. #They take less energy, ergo, they generate more "resistance."

Problem solved! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Simple. People don't yet believe that the difference in the cost of the bulb will be offset by the lowered usage cost and the longer life.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,13:33)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ Jan. 09 2008,15:07)]
Quote[/b] ]
It is about time we are forced to come to our senses. Now if the good folks in CA would mandate that all new cars and suvs be plug in hybrids


That wouldn't be a bad idea. Since cars have become the only means of transportation for many people to get to work manufacturers should be obligated to reduce oversized gas guzzlers and start producing more energy efficient cars.
If I wanted to live in the nanny state of California, I would live there. You couldn't drag me back with a court order. If anyone else wants to live there, it's a personal decision. Certain liberal left coasters don't like the Gulf Coast. We don't like liberal left coasters so it works out.

Too bad our Florida governor is taking pages from Ahnolds playbook and trying to ram California solutions down the throat of the Florida electorate. His political stock has taken a beating over his increasing use of executive orders to push through an agenda he knows the state Legislature would never pass.

Adopting California emissions standards, energy policies, and other social engineering schemes is making Charlie Crist about as popular as a horse turd in a punch bowl.

You know all of the 'good ole boys' ride around in big pickup trucks and all of the soccer moms use those big SUVs for the sole reason that it drives the social nanny types to apoplexy, don't you?

Gas has gone up 20 cents a gallon here. Diesel remains steady at $3.39
Still too much money, but I'm not getting surprised every day at the pump. As for hybrid cars and trucks, where does the ELECTRICITY come from to refuel them? Coal fired power plants and nuclear reactors, that's where! The pollutants just come from somewhere else. So much for your statements about hybrids saving the planet.

At least I can run my truck on filtered fryer oil, drive by your house and give you the munchies from the french fry scented exhaust. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess

[N0WVA]

I think automibile use should be rationed ,too. Your car will only start to get to work and get back home. It will also only start for a couple hours on Saturday so you can get your food at walmart.

If you need to pick up kids at school, or visit relatives, then you have to apply for a "permit" which will then be verified at checkpoints along the way. Of course, if you speed on the way there, the car will automatically revert to idle, where you will have 30 seconds to pull onto the shoulder. Then an officer (SS) will be dispatched to collect the fine on the spot. The money will instantly be transferred from your account. Then you can proceed to your destination.

Timers (controlled by your government via BPL) should also be installed on showers, where if you are caught in the shower for more than 5 minutes, the water is turned off, and officers ( SS) are immediately dispatched to collect the fine. Your stove will also have timers via BPL where cooking time is rationed.

Since its a wholesome part of all good Americans, a television MUST be on at all times. Any attempt to disrupt the flow of propaganda into the residence will be immediate cause for officers (SS) to be dispatched.

These laws should cut our energy consumption dramatically , and promote a non-hostile, government friendly citizen.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 09 2008,18:24)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,15:29)]Quote[/b] (W7WV @ Jan. 09 2008,16:21)]Yes I heard they are going to stop regular incandescent light bulbs too.
When they do I will sit just he other side of the border in my RV and sell them to CA residents.
Yep, they become banned in 2012. Stock up now. There will be a good demand for them in the future. This is a " feel good" move for the global warming crowd.
It IS a good idea for the new bulbs.

If you'd unglue your brain from talk radio and garbage like American Stinker, you'd realize compact flourescents are a great idea.

I've used them for years, and I've only had one burn out in 7 years. They are far more efficient and put out the same amount of light.

You still haven't answered IZE's questions. You're babbling about "big brother", but do you support the Patriot Act? I'll be you do.

You need to stop letting your AM radio dictate your thought patterns and think for yourself for a change.

Dave NX6D
Modoc County, CA
Our illustrious amateur brother from Modoc County hasn't lost his touch for the insults he hurls at people who disagree with him.

What in the hell does the Patriot Act have to do with controlling your thermostat, other than you and IZE using it as a club to beat your opinion over other people's heads?

Dave, I don't support the Patriot Act. Surprised? I also don't support feel good legislation that MANDATES I use a certain product, drive a certain vehicle, limit my activities to what, when, and where the nanny government decides, in other words, I believe in the freedom that you profess to champion. But your idea of 'freedom' only goes as far as it meets with your view of the world and how others should live. I can make my own decisions without the approval of an old hippie, thank you very much.

Dave, not all of us are California liberals who insist on wearing a hairshirt, scream and bitch about anyone who doesn't agree with them, and who has distain for anyone who doesn't share the view that the government knows what's best for all.

Why not park your behind in that big comfy chair of yours, and enjoy a big steaming cup of STFU! Just because we don't agree with you DOESN'T mean we genuflect at the altar of conservative AM radio.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:04)]
Quote[/b] ]
Dave, I don't support the Patriot Act. Surprised? I also don't support feel good legislation that MANDATES I use a certain product, drive a certain vehicle, limit my activities to what, when, and where the nanny government decides, in other words, I believe in the freedom that you profess to champion. But your idea of 'freedom' only goes as far as it meets with your view of the world and how others should live. I can make my own decisions without the approval of an old hippie, thank you very much.


No, but many things you do are subject to the approval of the society within which you live. If I want to start a rubber burning plant in my backyard guess what ? I am going to be stopped. Why ? because some old hippie doesn't like it ? No, because my neighbors don't like it and when the cops or the EPA force me to stop they are going to cite some environmental regulation and for good reason, so everyone else doesn't have to choke to death on my behalf.

Maybe you don't give a darned about the environment but a lot of people in our society do. They are not as convinced as you are that global warming is a farce. They are not as sure as you that environmental issues are merely the ravings of some wacko's. They want a sustainable environment so that their children, grandchildren, and future generations can have clean air, clean water, and not have to worry about dying from cancer at age 40. And since consumers are going to use whatever products are available it is not unreasonable to require that certain products manufactures meet certain criteria so as to minimize negative impact on the environment. If it means that more people will have to use bulbs that are more energy efficient then so be it. If it means certain vehicles must be manufactured to comply with certain environmental standards then so be it. if it means making hybrid cars available then so be it. A growing majority of people feel that we should be taking steps to reduce our impact on the environment. Since consumer products play a large role in such things that affect the environment a sensible start lies in assuring that the products sold are cleaner.

Like it or not, it's one of the consequences of living in a society. It may make sense to listen to that old hippie once in a while.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,16:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
The can mandate , a nice word for FORCE, changes in new vehicles but cant do a lot about the ones out on the road.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,17:15)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,16:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
The can mandate , a nice word for FORCE, changes in new vehicles but cant do a lot about the ones out on the road.
Living in a society can be a bummer.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,18:25)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,17:15)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,16:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
The can mandate , a nice word for FORCE, changes in new vehicles but cant do a lot about the ones out on the road.
Living in a society can be a bummer.
Especially when you nanny types don't get your way. People don't agree with your assertions, contentions, and theories, you just find an activist judge or buttonhole enough legislators to effect change by government fiat.

Freedom. A concept you wouldn't know even if it came behind you and put teeth marks in your gluteous maximus.

Your motto is "Don't agree with me? I'll MAKE you agree with me and PASS A LAW!"

So many liberal environmental whackos, is it something in the left coast water?

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,19:50)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,18:25)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,17:15)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,16:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
The can mandate , a nice word for FORCE, changes in new vehicles but cant do a lot about the ones out on the road.
Living in a society can be a bummer.
Especially when you nanny types don't get your way. People don't agree with your assertions, contentions, and theories, you just find an activist judge or buttonhole enough legislators to effect change by government fiat.

Freedom. A concept you wouldn't know even if it came behind you and put teeth marks in your gluteous maximus.

Your motto is "Don't agree with me? I'll MAKE you agree with me and PASS A LAW!"

So many liberal environmental whackos, is it something in the left coast water?
You have to remember the Libs actually think they are doing a service to the great unwashed by helping them to discover the proper way to live.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,17:44)]No, but many things you do are subject to the approval of the society within which you live. If I want to start a rubber burning plant in my backyard guess what ? I am going to be stopped. Why ? because some old hippie doesn't like it ? No, because my neighbors don't like it and when the cops or the EPA force me to stop they are going to cite some environmental regulation and for good reason, so everyone else doesn't have to choke to death on my behalf.

...

Like it or not, it's one of the consequences of living in a society. It may make sense to listen to that old hippie once in a while.
Well John, I take your extreme example and bring it down a notch.

Instead of a rubber burning plant, how about a ham radio or cellphone tower?

Not as big of a health concern as a rubber burning plant, but some people think that RF gives them cancer. Actually they don't, but it's the best excuse they can come up with other than "it's an eyesore."

I don't believe in compromising liberty. I like my tower, thankyou, and anyone who thinks I should take it down can go p*ss up a rope.

I do believe in market forces, however.

Therefore, instead of controlling my thermostat, higher energy bills will do just fine. Raise the price and some will be forced to conserve.

One of the reasons we as Americans waste so much is because what we waste costs so little.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,17:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
That's fine.

Hope you like $5/gallon gas, because with my small "clown car" (actually midsized sedan that gets 34 hwy, 24 city) I'm not paying $70-$90/fillup.

Drive what you want. I believe in freedom to drive what you want. Just don't bitch about how much it costs. You'll find no sympathy from me here.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:33)]As for hybrid cars and trucks, where does the ELECTRICITY come from to refuel them? Coal fired power plants and nuclear reactors, that's where! The pollutants just come from somewhere else. So much for your statements about hybrids saving the planet.
One step at a time.

I've seen solar panels popping up around town. A local church even had them donated. Electricity from a heavenly source.

Nuke plants aren't really that bad. They produce radioactive waste, but they are far cleaner than a coal fired power plant in terms of carbon emissions.

Natural gas is also used to make electricity. There is even a plant in New York that reprocesses solid waste (garbage) to use as fuel to generate electricity.

The real bonus with electricity is that you can change your fuel source at any time, easily and transparently. So today we're burning coal, tomorrow we'll be using wind and solar.

[W6PEA]

Quote[/b] (wa6mhz @ Jan. 09 2008,12:17)]Oh the LUXURY of heating and air conditioning. #My house has NO heating ducts, or air condx. #It gets hot in the summer, cold in the winter, but it is Never really hot or cold because it is SAN DIEGO climate, perfect all year round. #A little chilly at times, a bit too warm at times, but NEVER that uncomfortable. #So who needs heating?
Isn't Sempra Energy aka San Diego Greedy & Expensive behind this.

I think they want to do away with meter reader jobs. I have a piece of medical equipment I need to use at my qth and they will not put a computer read able and control able meter on my home.

[W6PEA]

Quote[/b] (wa6mhz @ Jan. 09 2008,12:17)]Oh the LUXURY of heating and air conditioning. #My house has NO heating ducts, or air condx. #It gets hot in the summer, cold in the winter, but it is Never really hot or cold because it is SAN DIEGO climate, perfect all year round. #A little chilly at times, a bit too warm at times, but NEVER that uncomfortable. #So who needs heating?
Isn't Sempra Energy aka San Diego Greedy & Expensive behind this.

I think they want to do away with meter reader jobs. I have a piece of medical equipment I need to use at my qth and they will not put a computer read able and control able meter on my home.

opps how did this happen

[WA8FOZ]

The world is changing. Mr. Jefferson died a long time ago, and a lot of his ideas were already obsolete by the time he did (vid. the industrial revolution). Professors Hayek and Friedman wrote elegant tomes about a world that was already passing away. New economy, complex society, interdependence and all that.

I love big fast cars. But it would be foolish to think that this can go on much longer.

The climate is changing too. Even Bush admits it. We can continue to argue about why or how fast. Or we can adapt our ways and make the best of it.

The way I see it, we can either recognize reality and make the world the best place we can, or bitch and moan and wreck things worse. We need to recognize that a lot of what we have identified as freedom is illusory or irrelevant or both. Or we can lock ourselves into a room with a case of bourbon and a pile of Louis Lamour novels, I suppose. That would be useless, but maybe less damaging to the rest of the world than pretending it can be 1800 or even 1960 again. Flame away.

[ac4r]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 10 2008,20:18)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,17:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
That's fine. #

Hope you like $5/gallon gas, because with my small "clown car" (actually midsized sedan that gets 34 hwy, 24 city) I'm not paying $70-$90/fillup. #

Drive what you want. #I believe in freedom to drive what you want. #Just don't bitch about how much it costs. You'll find no sympathy from me here.
At 9 mpg my Jeep gets about 1 mpg more than a Cessna 172. The bad thing is it wont cruise at 120 .

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
The new world order... The Lib-Socialists secretly wish to control every aspect of your lives... this is just another example. Global warming will be the lame excuse.

The batwing boys are developing a line of products to monitor and control you home. Wireless, tamper-proof, thermostatic controls are just one aspect of their efforts -- I was briefed by batwing corporate weenies on their efforts last summer. Soon, expect the big government, lib-socialists to fall all over themselves as they push to enact laws that further restrict basic liberties.

So much for your home being your castle. The moat could/can never be wide enough...


Toodles.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (NL7W @ Jan. 12 2008,08:38)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
The new world order... #The Lib-Socialists secretly wish to control every aspect of your lives... this is just another example. #Global warming will be the lame excuse.

The batwing boys are developing a line of products to monitor and control you home. #Wireless, tamper-proof, thermostatic controls are just one aspect of their efforts -- I was briefed by batwing corporate weenies on their efforts last summer. #Soon, expect the big government, lib-socialists to fall all over themselves as they push to enact laws that further restrict basic liberties.

So much for your home being your castle. #The moat could/can never be wide enough...


Toodles.
Wow, nice black helicopter rant.

You need to move to an area where there is more sun, Frozen Steve.

That rant was irrational, even for you...

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Jan. 12 2008,09:12)]Quote[/b] (NL7W @ Jan. 12 2008,08:38)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 09 2008,10:50)]Only from the Left coast


What should be controversial in the proposed revisions to Title 24 is the requirement for what is called a "programmable communicating thermostat" or PCT. Every new home and every change to existing homes' central heating and air conditioning systems will required to be fitted with a PCT beginning next year following the issuance of the revision. Each PCT will be fitted with a "non-removable" FM receiver that will allow the power authorities to increase your air conditioning temperature setpoint or decrease your heater temperature setpoint to any value they chose. During "price events" those changes are limited to +/- four degrees F and you would be able to manually override the changes. During "emergency events" the new setpoints can be whatever the power authority desires and you would not be able to alter them.

In other words, the temperature of your home will no longer be yours to control. Your desires and needs can and will be overridden by the state of California through its public and private utility organizations. All this is for the common good, of course.
The new world order... The Lib-Socialists secretly wish to control every aspect of your lives... this is just another example. Global warming will be the lame excuse.

The batwing boys are developing a line of products to monitor and control you home. Wireless, tamper-proof, thermostatic controls are just one aspect of their efforts -- I was briefed by batwing corporate weenies on their efforts last summer. Soon, expect the big government, lib-socialists to fall all over themselves as they push to enact laws that further restrict basic liberties.

So much for your home being your castle. The moat could/can never be wide enough...


Toodles.
Wow, nice black helicopter rant.

You need to move to an area where there is more sun, Frozen Steve.

That rant was irrational, even for you...
You forget... I work for the batwing boys. I know; you don't. I know what's going on behind the scenes in this regard; you don't.


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,19:50)]
Quote[/b] ]

Your motto is "Don't agree with me? I'll MAKE you agree with me and PASS A LAW!"

So many liberal environmental whackos, is it something in the left coast water?


Actually you can no longer dismiss environmental conservation as the work of a handful of enviro wacko's anymore. Especially since your beloved conservative republican president signed the bill requiring energy efficient light bulbs into law at the same day a Prius was delivered. Sorry, you cannot blame that one on communist Hillary, Jane Fonda, and a tribe of socialist hippie supporters. . This was YOUR conservative president who done it this time.

The reality is that more and more mainstream middle of the road and even conservative Americans feel global warming is indeed an issue that should be taken seriously and may have roots in man made activity. And vast numbers of everyday Americans feel that it's a good idea to conserve energy and act as good stewards of our planet and it's environment.

When it comes to the environment peoplelike yourself who dismiss environmental concerns as the work of a handful of ultra left wing wackos are growing smaller and smaller in number. The idea that environment = communism is passe'. It's an idea that died decades ago.

Then there are a few people left who still believe that chain smoking is harmless to ones health.

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 12 2008,10:06)]
Quote[/b] ]

Your motto is "Don't agree with me? I'll MAKE you agree with me and PASS A LAW!"

So many liberal environmental whackos, is it something in the left coast water?


Actually you can no longer dismiss environmental conservation as the work of a handful of enviro wacko's anymore. Especially since your beloved conservative republican president signed the bill requiring energy efficient light bulbs into law at the same day a Prius was delivered. Sorry, you cannot blame that one on communist Hillary, Jane Fonda, and a tribe of socialist hippie supporters. . This was YOUR conservative president who done it this time.

The reality is that more and more mainstream middle of the road and even conservative Americans feel global warming is indeed an issue that should be taken seriously and may have roots in man made activity. And vast numbers of everyday Americans feel that it's a good idea to conserve energy and act as good stewards of our planet and it's environment.

When it comes to the environment peoplelike yourself who dismiss environmental concerns as the work of a handful of ultra left wing wackos are growing smaller and smaller in number. The idea that environment = communism is passe'. It's an idea that died decades ago.

Then there are a few people left who still believe that chain smoking is harmless to ones health.
More "world order" beliefs from the NY socialist...

[kf6rdn]

Today, Your thermostats!

Tomorrow, the "Verld" bwuhuhahahaha!!!!


http://planetquo.net/Various/mad%20scientist.jpg

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (NL7W @ Jan. 12 2008,14:46)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 12 2008,10:06)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,19:50)]
Quote[/b] ]

Your motto is "Don't agree with me? I'll MAKE you agree with me and PASS A LAW!"

So many liberal environmental whackos, is it something in the left coast water?


Actually you can no longer dismiss environmental conservation as the work of a handful of enviro wacko's anymore. Especially since your beloved conservative republican president signed the bill requiring energy efficient light bulbs into law at the same day a Prius was delivered. Sorry, you cannot blame that one on communist Hillary, Jane Fonda, and a tribe of socialist hippie supporters. . This was YOUR conservative president who done it this time.

The reality is that more and more mainstream middle of the road and even conservative Americans feel global warming is indeed an issue that should be taken seriously and may have roots in man made activity. And vast numbers of everyday Americans feel that it's a good idea to conserve energy and act as good stewards of our planet and it's environment.

When it comes to the environment peoplelike yourself who dismiss environmental concerns as the work of a handful of ultra left wing wackos are growing smaller and smaller in number. The idea that environment = communism is passe'. It's an idea that died decades ago.

Then there are a few people left who still believe that chain smoking is harmless to ones health.
More "world order" beliefs from the NY socialist...
I believe your beloved Bush Sr. sounded to trumpets of a New World Order.
That is what your beloved neocon/neochrist/control happy zealot friends have been after for years.
Funny how you like to turn everything around and blame all that you disdain on the "other side". Maybe you do not disdain it. Perhaps you just like to blame everything on everyone else.
Doesn't matter what I say here though, you'll turn it around so much that the spin will be enough to make an earthworm puke.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
Mandate - another word for when the liberal hippy environmental whackos, green with envy because they can't drive a large vehicle having spent their money on granola, tofu, and smokable herbs, make everyone else's life as miserable as their own by making the nanny government force their half baked beliefs about climate change and energy consumption on others who do not share their beliefs.

If my truck got 100 miles to the gallon, you would STILL bitch because it is big and not egalitarian and utilitarian for your way of thinking. If you can't convince me by persuasion, ram it down my throat by force of government fiat.

And you wonder why people don't like your views and your politics? Really, your rationalization for the feds to regulate our lives to the maximum shows more of a third grade school student's attitude.

"Teacher, I don't like what Johnny is doing! Make him stop!"

Some of us have actually grown up and grown a pair of nads. Does someone carry yours around in their purse? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 12 2008,17:32)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself #are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. #So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
Mandate - another word for when the liberal hippy environmental whackos, green with envy because they can't drive a large vehicle having spent their money on granola, tofu, and smokable herbs, make everyone else's life as miserable as their own by making the nanny government force their half baked beliefs about climate change and energy consumption on others who do not share their beliefs.

If my truck got 100 miles to the gallon, you would STILL bitch because it is big and not egalitarian and utilitarian for your way of thinking. If you can't convince me by persuasion, ram it down my throat by force of government fiat.

And you wonder why people don't like your views and your politics? Really, your rationalization for the feds to regulate our lives to the maximum shows more of a third grade school student's attitude.

"Teacher, I don't like what Johnny is doing! Make him stop!"

Some of us have actually grown up and grown a pair of nads. Does someone carry yours around in their purse? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] ]
Mandate - another word for when the liberal hippy environmental whackos, green with envy because they can't drive a large vehicle having spent their money on granola, tofu, and smokable herbs, make everyone else's life as miserable as their own by making the nanny government force their half baked beliefs about climate change and energy consumption on others who do not share their beliefs.


Then according to you George Bush must be a liberal hippie environmental wacko ? Right ? he just signed the energy bill that might do away with incandescent light bulbs. And what's worst, he signed it in a subversive Prius hybrid car. And he even acknowledged that global warming is real, although he doesn't plan to do much about it.

It must be ghastly for you. You're beloved leader is appeasing us genuine left wing liberal pot smoking, acid dropping, tree hugging, free love hippie enviro-wackos. After all, we're the ones who hate cars...especially big cars...almost as much as we dislike guns and people who wear short hair and suits. .



Quote[/b] ]
And you wonder why people don't like your views and your politics? Really, your rationalization for the feds to regulate our lives to the maximum shows more of a third grade school student's attitude.


On the contrary people must love our views because all these environmental measures,mandates, and regulations are being put into place and outside of a few guys like yourself the majority of the nation is not raising hell over it. matter of fact a lot of clean cut short haired Americans seem to thing reducing pollution and conserving is a good idea. So if environmental concerns are all about liberal hippies and environmental wackos (a term right from the mouth of the Drum) and the president is even signing energy regulation into law that may change what types of light bulbs you can buy then it seems like the nation and the executive branch has sides with the enviro wacko liberal hippies.

Quote[/b] ]
Some of us have actually grown up and grown a pair of nads. Does someone carry yours around in their purse? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


I have a good rebuttal to that but I won't go there right now.

Quote[/b] ]
If my truck got 100 miles to the gallon, you would STILL bitch because it is big and not egalitarian and utilitarian for your way of thinking. If you can't convince me by persuasion, ram it down my throat by force of government fiat.


Perhaps not everyone is as filled with envy, jealousy, and the desire to show themselves as all powerful as you imagine. many of us are quite satisfied with who we are and what we are. We don't need to be pretentious because we are confident in ourselves.

I am sorry that you cannot face the reality that you live in a society in which over the years concerns have grown among the masses over a wide variety of environmental issues such as air pollution, water pollution, chemical waste disposal, climate change, energy conservation, preservation of natural resources, forests wetlands, etc. Many people believe that it is worthwhile to preserve these things and keep them clean both for themselves and for the health and well being of future generations who are going to inherit this world from us long after we drop dead.. As a result governments (often by pressure from we the people) adopted measures to correct existing environmental problems and to try and prevent others from developing now and tomorrow. Not all the measures make sense but many of them do. Now, perhaps you don't care less about the environment. Perhaps you feel it's yours to trash and do what you want with and to heck with anybody else. that's fine. But don't expect society to by and large agree with you. Nor expect them to appease you. perhaps you don't like the idea that people want to do things in the name of the environment and conservation. So you minimize the problem by blaming it all on "hippies" and "environmental wackos". meanwhile you know as well as anyone else that the issue has nothing to do with hippies or a group of enviro wackos. it has to do with the American people as in "we the people", patriotic Americans of all types, of all political persuasions, genders, nationalities, etc. who believe in taking steps to maintain a healthy environment.

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 12 2008,16:32)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 10 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:59)]Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 10 2008,15:14)]Quote[/b] (ac4r @ Jan. 10 2008,15:40)]The hybrids dont stand a chance against a heavy vehicle in a wreck due to their light weight . Save gas and roll the dice i guess
My thoughts exactly. My motto is "Drive defensively. Drive a tank!"

A woman backed into my truck last year in one of those crackerbox economy cars. $3000 damage to her car. The rear bumper on my truck got a scratch and a minor dent. I covered it with a rubber bump strip and you would never know it was there.

Now if she had run into my truck when I was on the interstate hauling 15,000 pounds of travel trailer behind me, they would have needed a spatula to clean up the mess. I probably would be able to drive away.

Simple physics, a concept that our brain dead feel good congresscritters haven't a clue about. They probably think they can repeal the law of gravity if they get enough votes.
Yes, they can have their small "clown cars" i will stick to my 4300 pound Jeep .
Which is exactly why we end up with mandates. People like youself are not going to voluntarilly take measures to reduce fuel consumption, to reduce energy consumption. So on behalf of people like yourself mandates are introduced to force manufacturers to assure that light bulbs and automobiles meet certain efficiency requirements.
Mandate - another word for when the liberal hippy environmental whackos, green with envy because they can't drive a large vehicle having spent their money on granola, tofu, and smokable herbs, make everyone else's life as miserable as their own by making the nanny government force their half baked beliefs about climate change and energy consumption on others who do not share their beliefs.

If my truck got 100 miles to the gallon, you would STILL bitch because it is big and not egalitarian and utilitarian for your way of thinking. If you can't convince me by persuasion, ram it down my throat by force of government fiat.

And you wonder why people don't like your views and your politics? Really, your rationalization for the feds to regulate our lives to the maximum shows more of a third grade school student's attitude.

"Teacher, I don't like what Johnny is doing! Make him stop!"

Some of us have actually grown up and grown a pair of nads. Does someone carry yours around in their purse? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ah... the "new" NYC man-purse! My wife laughed hard when it was prominently displayed on the liberal "Today" show a few weeks back. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N8UZE]

Actually such a situation may lead to overall increased energy consumption. With the utility having the ability to bump the thermostat up or down 4 degrees, users could simply start out running it 4 degrees warmer in the winter and 4 degrees cooler in the summer so that when the utility adjusts it, the temperature would stay within what the user wants it to be. So the system is poorly designed as it has a potential to increase usage and NOT solve the overload problem.

If they want to do something effective, the system should be designed such that the utility selects specific temperature settings rather than deltas.

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 13 2008,07:32)]Actually such a situation may lead to overall increased energy consumption. #With the utility having the ability to bump the thermostat up or down 4 degrees, users could simply start out running it 4 degrees warmer in the winter and 4 degrees cooler in the summer so that when the utility adjusts it, the temperature would stay within what the user wants it to be. #So the system is poorly designed as it has a potential to increase usage and NOT solve the overload problem.

If they want to do something effective, the system should be designed such that the utility selects specific temperature settings rather than deltas.
OR........some ham could build a jammer for it and make a good bit of money selling it to the suckers in CA.......

OR, a really smart ham could actually decode the protocal the utility would use on the RF and take control of his neighbors thermostats. Have a problem with your neighbor? No problem, just freeze his butt out........

Just a thought though. I would never condone such behavior. Besides, just the possibility of this SHOULD persuade anyone not to adopt it.

Jerry

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 12 2008,19:32)]Mandate - another word for when the liberal hippy environmental whackos, green with envy because they can't drive a large vehicle having spent their money on granola, tofu, and smokable herbs,
More like we don't choose to waste our money on gas because we want to live in a real house (as opposed to a trailer) and want to have enough money to send our kids to college (versus having them work at Wal-mart.)

[KC5CSG]

I don't think we should regulate what type of vehicle we can buy. I do think we should ration gas. Issue each citizen a ration card with, lets say an allowance of 20 gallons a week. Now, if you want to travel a lot with that allowance buy a car with great gas milage. If you want to drive short distances and still use up your 20 gallons buy a big SUV. Either way, you'll have 20 gallons a week and no more. Use them wisely.

Jerry

Edited later: Correction needed here. Issue each VEHICLE a ration card. That way husband and wife will not combine ration cards on one vehicle..........

[N2RJ]

Gas rationing is a swell idea. It worked great way back when...NOT.

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 13 2008,08:28)]Gas rationing is a swell idea. #It worked great way back when...NOT.
Why not? I held a gas ration card when I was stationed in Germany. Worked great for us and believe it or not it was never a problem.

Even my coffee and alcohol was rationed unless I decided to go out on the economy to shop.

Of course it's not a great idea for people that like to buy 6000 lbs of vehicle to haul their 150 to 200 lb butts around town with dvd players installed to keep the family entertained for the 10 minutes it takes to get to the store......LOL

Jerry

[KC4RAN]

The CAFE game. Trading lives for MPG.

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Jan. 13 2008,11:32)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 13 2008,08:28)]Gas rationing is a swell idea. #It worked great way back when...NOT.
Why not? I held a gas ration card when I was stationed in Germany. Worked great for us and believe it or not it was never a problem.

Even my coffee and alcohol was rationed unless I decided to go out on the economy to shop.
That was a ration book, but it wasn't gas rationing; we could buy as much as we wanted at German prices, after all We got cut rate prices on the amount in the book.



Cortland
KA5S
FRG 1966-67, 1973-77, 1980-83

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (ka5s @ Jan. 20 2008,14:06)]Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Jan. 13 2008,11:32)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 13 2008,08:28)]Gas rationing is a swell idea. #It worked great way back when...NOT.
Why not? I held a gas ration card when I was stationed in Germany. Worked great for us and believe it or not it was never a problem.

Even my coffee and alcohol was rationed unless I decided to go out on the economy to shop.
That was a ration book, but it wasn't gas rationing; we could buy as much as we wanted at German prices, after all #We got cut rate prices on the amount in the book.



Cortland
KA5S
FRG 1966-67, 1973-77, 1980-83
I know but still, if you want to drive a gas hog then deal with a ration card and driving less than a person dealing with a ration card buying a car to drive more.

Jerry

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Jan. 20 2008,20:16)]Quote[/b] (ka5s @ Jan. 20 2008,14:06)]Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Jan. 13 2008,11:32)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 13 2008,08:28)]Gas rationing is a swell idea. It worked great way back when...NOT.
Why not? I held a gas ration card when I was stationed in Germany. Worked great for us and believe it or not it was never a problem.

Even my coffee and alcohol was rationed unless I decided to go out on the economy to shop.
That was a ration book, but it wasn't gas rationing; we could buy as much as we wanted at German prices, after all We got cut rate prices on the amount in the book.



Cortland
KA5S
FRG 1966-67, 1973-77, 1980-83
I know but still, if you want to drive a gas hog then deal with a ration card and driving less than a person dealing with a ration card buying a car to drive more.

Jerry
It's not the same thing.

You still had a choice to buy gas at a higher price.

With your proposed system of rationing, you'd have a hard limit, and couldn't get any more after that. It's an idea that would never fly.

Furthermore, you'd never see widespread support for this. Gas rations never worked in this country.

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Jan. 20 2008,12:22)]The CAFE game. Trading lives for MPG.
So right you are!

I am proud of my decision to buy a crew-cab Chevy pickup six months ago. When my wife and two of my kids were rear-ended by a drunk driver in an old Bronco-II before Christmas, the drunk and Bronco-II suffered; my family did not.

Thank God for real vehicles with mass. My truck suffered $1700 in damage, and is being fixed today. The drunk is paying my deductible to-boot, according to the DA's office. We'll see about that...


73.

[n0ov]

"They can't even control their own lifes,

I'll be damn'd if they'll control mine."

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (NL7W @ Jan. 21 2008,11:02)]Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Jan. 20 2008,12:22)]The CAFE game. Trading lives for MPG.
So right you are!

I am proud of my decision to buy a crew-cab Chevy pickup six months ago. When my wife and two of my kids were rear-ended by a drunk driver in an old Bronco-II before Christmas, the drunk and Bronco-II suffered; my family did not.

Thank God for real vehicles with mass. My truck suffered $1700 in damage, and is being fixed today. The drunk is paying my deductible to-boot, according to the DA's office. We'll see about that...


73.
I'm guessing the Bronco II had a stiff frame as well, but fewer of the safety features found in modern cars (crumple zones, airbags etc).

[K9STH]

According to an article in the Dallas Morning News a couple of days ago the State of California has abandoned their attempt to "take over" control of your thermostadts.

Glen, K9STH

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 21 2008,09:49)]Quote[/b] (NL7W @ Jan. 21 2008,11:02)]Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Jan. 20 2008,12:22)]The CAFE game. Trading lives for MPG.
So right you are!

I am proud of my decision to buy a crew-cab Chevy pickup six months ago. When my wife and two of my kids were rear-ended by a drunk driver in an old Bronco-II before Christmas, the drunk and Bronco-II suffered; my family did not.

Thank God for real vehicles with mass. My truck suffered $1700 in damage, and is being fixed today. The drunk is paying my deductible to-boot, according to the DA's office. We'll see about that...


73.
I'm guessing the Bronco II had a stiff frame as well, but fewer of the safety features found in modern cars (crumple zones, airbags etc).
The Bronco II the drunk was driving was a piece of junk before she hit our truck. It already had serious damage to the front end when it plowed into our truck's bumper.

My truck's bumper and integrated factory hitch were bent downwards. Thus the frame of my truck behind the drive-train and rear wheel wells was also bent downwards a bit. Thankfully, the "core" frame and drive-train were unaffected. No body damage -- just bumper, hitch, and rearward frame, which will be straightened.

The drunk driver served her time in jail -- second offense, and she'll be ordered by the court to pay my deductible. I think her vehicle is a total loss. I believe our bumper nailed her Bronco above the front bumper -- in the grill area. I could be wrong though.

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Jan. 21 2008,10:01)]According to an article in the Dallas Morning News a couple of days ago the State of California has abandoned their attempt to "take over" control of your thermostadts.

Glen, K9STH
Good. Citizens must have raised a stink. Good for them.

Now, this technology is being developed and promoted. The company I work for is doing so now. This issue is far from settled in America.

73.

[k4kyv]

Control of thermostats by the power co. was one of the "features" that was supposed to come with universal deployment of BPL, along with remote electric meter reading.

Here, we don't have internet BPL, but a few months ago the power co. did install new electric meters with digital display, and the installer told me that it would send a remote signal back to automatically monitor power usage, eliminating the need for a human to travel house to house and record readings. So far, I haven't traced any radio interference to it, but I do hear rubbish if I hold a portable AM radio right up against the meter housing.

The nearby city (I'm 3 miles outside the city limits) has a separate power company from those of us living the rural areas of the county, and they are installing fibre optic cable to every customer. The fibre is supposed to remotely read the meters there. Eventually, the customer will be able to opt for fibre-optic broadband internet at about half of what I am paying the cable company, plus TV service, which will cost about the same as cable.

Looks like residents inside the city limits are a