Windoze Shutdown

[WA9SVD]

I'm putting together a machine (sort of a Frankenstein, with parts recovered from several cast-offs) for dedicated shack use only.

K6-2/450 MHz, 256 MB, Win98SE; FIC VA-503+ mobo, AT supply.

Right now, the machine starts up and operates fine, but on shutdown, it hangs at the "Windoze is shutting down" screen, and it never displays the "It's safe to turn off" screen.
Apparently, the actual shutdown IS occurring; waiting a few seconds, and then powering down does not indicate any problems or create any corrupted files.
I've tried all the troubleshooting hints from the Microshaft archival site, to no avail; the only solution left seems to be a patch to Win98SE. But when I go to the "DOWNLOAD" page, and try to download the patch from Microshaft, there is no active link, and nothing happens. (The other link there just loops back to the start of the troubleshooting FAQ's.)
Does anyone have, or know where to actually download the patch? (MS simply says they no longer support Win9x and the archives are for the convenience of neanderthalic users who are too cheap to upgrade OS and hardware to Vista.)

[kl7aj]

The power cord is your friend.

[K1CJS]

I have the same problem with one of my older machines--the motherboard doesn't recognize the shutdown command. Simply press and hold the power button for about 4 seconds and the computer will power down.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K1CJS @ Jan. 03 2008,10:39)]I have the same problem with one of my older machines--the motherboard doesn't recognize the shutdown command. Simply press and hold the power button for about 4 seconds and the computer will power down.
With the install of Windoze 98SE, the shutdown progressed properly. But in the process of adding software, and merely rebooting, and not powering down, one of the installs (quite possibly Office 97) mucked up the final step in the shutdown. S'norton WinDoctor doesn't find any problems with the registry, and I've tried MS's fixes other than the patch that no longer exists. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

BTW, it's an AT power supply, not an "ATX" supply, so there's no "hold it for 4 second" option. (I may switch to an ATX supply anyway in the near future.)

It's just annoying that they have the documented problem and a fix on their web site, but no way to actually download the patch. (Somebody fell asleep at the switch, so to speak.) And if you e-mail MS about the missing link, you just get back a canned response about Win98 no longer being supported... switch to Vista.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Jan. 03 2008,09:43)]The power cord is your friend.
So's a sledge hammer when it comes to Windoze... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WD8OQX]

As far as the 98se patches are concerned, save your time,they were a hit or miss affair anyway. I have them & I as of yet have NOT found one computer they helped. - BTW: the original 98 didn't have this problem. That is the copy I use. (lots of luck in finding it, though)

[ad4mg]

You might try updating the video driver. The Office Suite you installed leaves an app running all the time ... "OSA", Office Start Assistant. I remember it used to give old video drivers a fit. Check your Task Manager for "OSA.exe".

And ... the updates for Windows 98SE and ME are on the Microsoft site ... somewhere. They just aren't going to provide anything new after the cutoff date for these OS's.

I'll see if I can remember how to navigate to the upgrades, and if successful, I'll post the link(s).

73,
Luke

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (ad4mg @ Jan. 04 2008,15:23)]You might try updating the video driver. The Office Suite you installed leaves an app running all the time ... "OSA", Office Start Assistant. I remember it used to give old video drivers a fit. Check your Task Manager for "OSA.exe".

And ... the updates for Windows 98SE and ME are on the Microsoft site ... somewhere. They just aren't going to provide anything new after the cutoff date for these OS's.

I'll see if I can remember how to navigate to the upgrades, and if successful, I'll post the link(s).

73,
Luke
Thanks, Luke. I'll try reinstalling the video drivers. That could be the problem, although I believe I have "OSA" turned off (through "msconfig." )

But if it corrupted the video driver during the install, removing OSA from startup might not solve the problem.

I understand that MS no longer supports Win98, but they claim they DO have everything still available. I found the Win98 update pages easily enough, and tried their troubleshooting tips for shutdown problems. The last effort is to install the patch, but when I get to that page, and click on the "download button," nothing happens. There's no link behind the "download now" button!

If worst comes to worst, I can just nuke everything and start over; this is to be a dedicated shack machine, not mission critical for other uses.

[k7mh]

Get Win 98 in any form out of your computer. It is a pain.
I had the same problem at one time with 98. Do a search for Windows 98 shutdown problem. I was able to resolve it.
Get Win 2000 if not XP. You will be far better off.

[W0UZR]

My old computer did just that. It was a windows 98. I finally got tired of it and ran windows 98 right over the top of everything and it was working fine ever since.

And I could have sworn that in the run and msconfig section there was a box to click in there that said something about whether you want a quick shutdown or a slower normal one. I looked and didn't find it in mine, so that could have been in the advanced in the internet options or similar.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (k7mh @ Jan. 04 2008,22:56)]Get Win 98 in any form out of your computer. It is a pain.
I had the same problem at one time with 98. Do a search for Windows 98 shutdown problem. I was able to resolve it.
Get Win 2000 if not XP. You will be far better off.
I already own the extra licensed copy of Win98, not Win2K. (If I had Win2K, I WOULD probably use that.) The computer wouldn't run XP worth a lick, as it's maxed out at 256 MB memory. As I said, it's for dedicated shack applications. (And yes, it's dual boot with DOS 6.22 because some applications either won't run, or run poorly in a Windows DOS session.)

I've ALREADY tried every trick in the book, er, web pages, that Microshaft suggests on their "shutdown problems" troubleshooting page, EXCEPT the patch, but the "Download Now" link is dead, and any question to MS gets a canned response of "No longer supported. Upgrade to current OS: VISTA."

Shutdown is appatently occurring correctly; the only trouble (mostly just an annoyance_ is that the system stops at the "Windoze is shutting down" scteen and the "It's safe to turn off your computer" screen never is displayed. (Usually there's a brief spurt of activity from the hard drive when that screen loads, but that is what doesn't happen.) Since there are no apparent corrupted files due to an improper shutdown, it may just be an annoyance. (And switching to an ATX supply with automatic power down MAY make the point moot.)

[KD0BRD]

Quote[/b] (WA9SVD @ Jan. 04 2008,09:38)]Quote[/b] (k7mh @ Jan. 04 2008,22:56)]Get Win 98 in any form out of your computer. It is a pain.
I had the same problem at one time with 98. Do a search for Windows 98 shutdown problem. I was able to resolve it.
Get Win 2000 if not XP. You will be far better off.
I already own the extra licensed copy of Win98, not Win2K. (If I had Win2K, I WOULD probably use that.) The computer wouldn't run XP worth a lick, as it's maxed out at 256 MB memory. As I said, it's for dedicated shack applications. (And yes, it's dual boot with DOS 6.22 because some applications either won't run, or run poorly in a Windows DOS session.)

I've ALREADY tried every trick in the book, er, web pages, that Microshaft suggests on their "shutdown problems" troubleshooting page, EXCEPT the patch, but the "Download Now" link is dead, and any question to MS gets a canned response of "No longer supported. Upgrade to current OS: VISTA."

Shutdown is appatently occurring correctly; the only trouble (mostly just an annoyance_ is that the system stops at the "Windoze is shutting down" scteen and the "It's safe to turn off your computer" screen never is displayed. (Usually there's a brief spurt of activity from the hard drive when that screen loads, but that is what doesn't happen.) Since there are no apparent corrupted files due to an improper shutdown, it may just be an annoyance. (And switching to an ATX supply with automatic power down MAY make the point moot.)
Have to disagree with you there! XP on 256mb RAM runs quite nicely. I ran XP for 6 months on a 233mhz Pentium and 128 MB ram, and the improvement over Win 98 was impressive. Give it a try, see how it works.
As to the shutdown, I've had the same problem on several computers. The only way I found that works is to wait for about 30sec-1min, then "pull the plug" (maybe a power strip just for the computer?)

Good luck
Isaac KD0BRD

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KD0BRD @ Jan. 19 2008,19:04)]Have to disagree with you there! XP on 256mb RAM runs quite nicely. I ran XP for 6 months on a 233mhz Pentium and 128 MB ram, and the improvement over Win 98 was impressive. Give it a try, see how it works.
As to the shutdown, I've had the same problem on several computers. The only way I found that works is to wait for about 30sec-1min, then "pull the plug" (maybe a power strip just for the computer?)

Good luck
Isaac KD0BRD
No offense, but compared to WHAT?

Yes, XP will run on 256 MB. It will even run on 128 MB (BARELY.) Home Edition that is.

But the improvement between 128 or 256 MB up to 1 GB is tremendous! (Then again, on a 233 Puntium, the difference may not be so dramatic.)
The 233 Pentium/128 MB memory are the minimum requirements specified by Microsoft for XP. It will run, but not well.

I've decided to put an inherited P4-1.6 GHz with 512 MB running XP in the beast's place, and probably nuke the HD and maybe keep it around for LINUX. It turns out the shutdown is NOT complete (but all files apparently get closed, as there's never any data loss) but selecting "restart with Command Prompt only" hangs the machine, but "restart back to Win 98" works OK. Go figure.
The machine isn't really worth much troubleshooting time any more. It's just annoying that Microsoft posts a page with a solution and offers only dead or misdirected links.

[WB5KHC]

I'm putting together a machine (sort of a Frankenstein, with parts recovered from several cast-offs) for dedicated shack use only.

K6-2/450 MHz, 256 MB, Win98SE; FIC VA-503+ mobo, AT supply.

I've tried all the troubleshooting hints from the Microshaft archival site, to no avail; the only solution left seems to be a patch to Win98SE. But when I go to the "DOWNLOAD" page, and try to download the patch from Microshaft, there is no active link, and nothing happens. (The other link there just loops back to the start of the troubleshooting FAQ's.)
Does anyone have, or know where to actually download the patch? (MS simply says they no longer support Win9x and the archives are for the convenience of neanderthalic users who are too cheap to upgrade OS and hardware to Vista.)

Why run a 10 year old piece of unsupported software when u can download & burn to cd PCLinuxOS ??? -- info here;

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pclinuxos

It has been the #1 favorite on DistroWatch for the past 8 months or so -- read the reviews.
Easy to install, looks much like Windows and detects & installs most hardware.

[WA9SVD]

Why run a 10 year old piece of unsupported software when u can download & burn to cd PCLinuxOS ??? -- info here;

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pclinuxos

It has been the #1 favorite on DistroWatch for the past 8 months or so -- read the reviews.
Easy to install, looks much like Windows and detects & installs most hardware.

OK,
No offense, but "detects most hardware" is a RED FLAG. I will set up a Linux box of some flavour, when I have time. And for that matter, there's no "guarantee" of support for any hardware or even software under any flavour of LINUX.

I DO have the license for Win98SE, not XP, and the box wouldn't run XP all that well anyway, although it's quite well equipped for '98SE. (Even at that, one piece of hardware, has to be accessed through MS-DOS 6.22; despite a dozen "solutions" from the Microshaft experts over the course of a month of trying. It isn't recognized in MS OS's after DOS 6.22; Win 95 or 98 just can't seem to recognize S-RAM PCMCIA cards, despite Microshaft's claims to the contrary. I doubt THAT support is in any LINUX build of recent vintage. And I have a few (GASP!!!) logging programs that ARE DOS based, won't run well (if at all) in an XP emulation mode, but still have a lot of information I do not care to have to re-enter into either an XP compatible program, or recreate for a LINUX based program, if such is even available.

Even my XP Pro machines (two at present) have dual-boot capability with either MS-DOS 6.22 or PC-DOS 7.0, and one even still has a 5.25" Floppy drive, JUST for compatibility. Ancient? SO WHAT. It meets my needs, and I don't have to say to myself (or a client) "sorry, your data is toast, because Microsoft and the computer manufacturers decided that format isn't used any more..."

If/when I set up LINUX, it will be on a dedicated machine, withouyt having to deal with the flakiness of having Microshaft software possibly screwing around with anything.

But suggesting "Do LINUX" is like suggesting "Buy American" to a person who already owns a Toyota, or "Buy A Toyota" to someone who owns a Chevy or Fraud Motors product. It's of no help with their current question or situation.

[KD8FFJ]

Win98SE you are already making your future a headache. And then it is down hill from there at 450mhz and 256ram. I have found comps in the trash and salvaged them that have better specs.

For under $100 on ebay you can get a 800mhz machine with WinXp and 256 to 512 ram.

Heck I've got one sitting on my floor, if you want it- pay shipping and it's yours.

And I have a few (GASP!!!) logging programs that ARE DOS based, won't run well (if at all) in an XP emulation mode, but still have a lot of information I do not care to have to re-enter into either an XP compatible program, **Didn't see before posting the offer for the XP machine
Cheers-
Keith KD8FFJ

[nz3m]

Freezing and locking up is a Windows 98 trademark :)

Look familiar?
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/9548/step2h6.gif

XP is 100,000,000,000,000 times better.
In fact XP has been perfect. Been on for 2 years and never froze

Dave

[W8EFA]

It's just annoying that Microsoft posts a page with a solution and offers only dead or misdirected links.

No what is annoying is someone constantly trashing Microsoft because he doesn't understand why taking obsolete computer hardware worth 50 bucks with a decade old operating system trying to run dissimilar applications doesn't work and it is evil Microsofts problem.

[KD8FFJ]

worth 50 bucks

You are being generous. hehehehe.......lol

Keith (KD8FFJ)

Sorry..........couldn't resist

[WA9SVD]

No what is annoying is someone constantly trashing Microsoft because he doesn't understand why taking obsolete computer hardware worth 50 bucks with a decade old operating system trying to run dissimilar applications doesn't work and it is evil Microsofts problem.


Any different than running what was once the "ne plus ultra for a Win98SE machine in terms of hardware when Win98SE was considered the "best and greatest" release from Redmond?
I'm not talking about running NEW software versions on "old" hardware or software. Just apps that were "current" when WinSE was current.

Unless there's some built-in mechanism in Win98 to know how to automatically self-destruct itself, and cause hardware to malfunction on some timetable or when Microshaft announces support is "deleted."

Prior to this, I experienced the "lockups" and crashes on a semi-regular basis when I was using Win98 for my "real" machine. That was usually once or twice a month, (at 14-18 hours/day) about the same as with XP SP2. If YOUR Win98 systems were less stable, and crashed more often, you have my sympathy. (Other than the "shutdown" problem the system has been working 10-12 hours a day for the past month without a single glitch or crash.)

Now, what you describe as a "decades old" system was "good enough" at one time, when used with contemporary hardware and software...... What's so hard to understand about that?

Sorry you're annoyed. Guess you don't have any constructive or helpful ideas to offer, so bashing is the order of the day.

But you know what's REALLY annoying?

The people that denigrate and people and "look down at others who (for whatever reason) do not or cannot have the "latest and greatest" computer systems and upgrade to a new computer every year or two.

[k3wrv]

Larry-

I've got a few "dumpster grade" machines around the shack, one of which has shutdown problems (K6-350). But "restart" seems to work most of the time, and ctrl-ald-del somewtimes works. If not, I just do what AJ suggested and pull the plug or hit the power strip key. Would a fresh install of SE help? I did find something in one of the Win98 settings that lets me boot without having ScanDisk run first.

But my intel boxes do just fine at shutting down (same vintage). I haven't looked for patches to Win98 because those machines never talk to the internet.

As far as Linux hardware issues go - my only problems have been with ISA P&P cards, WinModems, and wireless PCMCIA cards. There have been some issues reported on LapTops, but so far, I've been lucky. And I've found Dosemu runs most of my DOS software. But did have a problem with a couple of graphics programs that wanted greater color depth, and haven't hacked around enough to fix the problem.

[WA9SVD]

Larry-

I've got a few "dumpster grade" machines around the shack, one of which has shutdown problems (K6-350). But "restart" seems to work most of the time, and ctrl-ald-del somewtimes works. If not, I just do what AJ suggested and pull the plug or hit the power strip key. Would a fresh install of SE help? I did find something in one of the Win98 settings that lets me boot without having ScanDisk run first.

But my intel boxes do just fine at shutting down (same vintage). I haven't looked for patches to Win98 because those machines never talk to the internet.

As far as Linux hardware issues go - my only problems have been with ISA P&P cards, WinModems, and wireless PCMCIA cards. There have been some issues reported on LapTops, but so far, I've been lucky. And I've found Dosemu runs most of my DOS software. But did have a problem with a couple of graphics programs that wanted greater color depth, and haven't hacked around enough to fix the problem.

Thanks. I've seen the "shutdown" problem even on Intel P4 systems too, so I doubt it's specific to the AMD K6 series of processors, or actually hardware related. It's much more likely a software glitch, despite claims to the contrary, and in the past, when it came up, a clean re-install solves the problem.

But yes, the ol' "Three Finger Salute" works (CTRL-ALT-DEL) as does the RESET button. (Strange, a number of INTEL boards I've worked on don't even have a "RESET" capability. Pretty arrogant to think THEIR processor, board or both won't need a "reboot," but a real pain in the b*** when they do.)
I still need to keep at least ONE antique computer operational, for compatibility with some older hardware and software. I STILL need to access PCMCIA S-RAM cards, and support for that ended with DOS 6.22. My Win98 machine is the last that has ISA slots, and that's the only CP card adapter interface cardI've been able to find. (Of course, I've had it for 8 years now.) But it won't transfer to a PCI slot machine. And I have an VERY expensive 35mm photo slide scanner that uses the Parallel Port . Somewhat slow, but it works. New computers either don't have a Parallel Port (such as my laptop) or support isn't in the new OS, and the manufacturer doesn't have a driver for newer OS that Win9x.

I'll reformat the HD and ship the box off to the Salvation Army.

[VE7DQ]

I have in front of me a diskette with the patch for the w98 shutdown problem. I assume that if you send me your email address, I could send it to you as an attachment. It's a zip file of about 445 KB.

MOST of my computers have W98SE in dual boot. I do so enjoy the ability to fall back right to DOS from time to time!

My direct email address is <glovebox(at)shaw(dot)ca>

Cheers!

Tom

[WA9SVD]

I have in front of me a diskette with the patch for the w98 shutdown problem. I assume that if you send me your email address, I could send it to you as an attachment. It's a zip file of about 445 KB.

MOST of my computers have W98SE in dual boot. I do so enjoy the ability to fall back right to DOS from time to time!

My direct email address is <glovebox(at)shaw(dot)ca>

Cheers!

Tom

That would be especially generous of you. My e-mail is in my profile, but here it is anyway::


]mailto...wa9svd@earthlink.net


All my machines are (or were intended to be!) dual-boot with either MS-DOS 6.22 or PC-DOS 7.0 That includes various k6-2 Win98SE machines (all but one destined for Salvation Army soon) and two XP Pro and 2 XP Home machines. (One XP Pro machine even has a 5.25" floppy...) But I have to keep the Win98SE machine around for a slide scanner (VERY high quality and VERY $$$) and a couple of other ISA bus devices that are impossible to use on a newer machine. The "intended to be dual boot" part was a not well documented detail about Win 98 allowing dual boot with DOS, but Win 98 STILL had to be installed on Drive C: When I tried to install on another partition, all went well until I used DOSl then Win 98 boot got trashed. Repair
was easy, but only temporary and got trashed whenever I booted into DOS. Problem was resolved by using a floppy to boot into DOS when needed. Took MS sopport 2 weeks of daily troubleshooting to finally say "You can install dual-boot Win 98 and on any partition, as long as they are both on C:"
Win XP lets you put DOS on C: and XP on any partition.

But again, thanks for the offer.

[WA9SVD]

Well, GLORIOSKI!!!


After all this, our friend in Canada (Tom, VE7DQ) had the solution, rather than "suggestions [near demands] " to do things some other way.

Yep, after all the discussions about different OS, etc. etc. etc. and so on, in finitum, or at least ad nauseum, and disparaging remarks about using an "old" OS, Tom provided me with the Microsoft Patch that was once available and provides for proper shutdown.

Thank you again, Tom.

I KNOW I COULD have done another "re-re-re-install." I KNOW I could have "upgraded to XP." I KNOW I could have changed to LINUX. But THAT was NOT my original question. Tom provided me with the appropriate solution, without making moral, ethical, logical or any other demands that I switch to some other "religion," and not offering any real assistance.

Thanks again, to Tom, VE7DQ.

[k1rfd]

Glad you found the solution to the shutdown problem.

Win98 works just the same now as it did 10 years ago, but I strongly recommend to folks that they avoid connecting a Win98 machine to the Internet because of security risks. The reason is that Microsoft is no longer producing new security patches for it, so it may have serious security vulnerabilities (and it wasn't very secure to begin with).

[KD6NIG]

The patch isn't available anymore simply because Microsoft doesn't support it anymore.

As all of their resellers hum all the time.... HUMMM UPGRADE HUMMM UPGRADE.

Gotta keep those cash registers ringing!

[WA9SVD]

Glad you found the solution to the shutdown problem.

Win98 works just the same now as it did 10 years ago, but I strongly recommend to folks that they avoid connecting a Win98 machine to the Internet because of security risks. The reason is that Microsoft is no longer producing new security patches for it, so it may have serious security vulnerabilities (and it wasn't very secure to begin with).

Understood. The machine is for dedicated shack use and doesn't have an internal modem, so routiine Internet use isn't even a possibility. It's good enough (more than good enough) for THAT purpose, and easy enough to use an external modem in the rare event it's necessary to go "online" (with proper security measures.)

After all, packet, PSK31 or logging don't really require a 3+ GHz dual or quad core processor and 4 GB of DDR2 memory!

[WA9SVD]

The patch isn't available anymore simply because Microsoft doesn't support it anymore.

As all of their resellers hum all the time.... HUMMM UPGRADE HUMMM UPGRADE.

Gotta keep those cash registers ringing!

Microsoft doesn't actively support it ANYMORE, but they still have the original support on their site; many OTHER patches are still available. They still have about 5 or more pages concerning the "shutdown problem," and various solutions, INCLUDING the "patch." It's just that the link to the patch just loops back to the top page of the "shutdown issue." It's a dead link.
Microsoft hasn't removed Win98 material from their web site (YET,) they just leave it up for archival purposes, and don't add to it.