Remember me mentioning...

[KD4LEI]

It's not sitting with me well putting it up there. #To much concern for safety and arcing. #Close quarters, RF effects on potential appliances/electrical wiring inside, my XYL going bonkers after her TV programs get interfered with.

Taking the chance putting this antenna where it belongs... #Outside!

Now some of you have asked/stated why I should settle with such a compromise antenna. #All I can do for now. #I am taking notice of the restrictions and it seems nobody really takes notice.

Time to get very creative...

[wa9cwx]

Put it up between two 75' towers.
The HOA won't even NOTICE the wire.

Actually, getting it up and out and away from the house sounds like a very good idea.

Use stealth and ingenuity, it will pay off.

Good luck and have fun.

Frank

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Dec. 31 2007,13:01)]Put it up between two 75' towers.
The HOA won't even NOTICE the wire.

Actually, getting it up and out and away from the house sounds like a very good idea.

Use stealth and ingenuity, it will pay off.

Good luck and have fun.

Frank
Well I don't have the towers to do that, but getting it away from the house for the first time (sat on the roof at the last QTH). I will hopefully get it up where I will fare better on the air.

[ai4ep]

...a g5rv in the attic ?

Man, no one has a house trailer THAT long !!

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[W4HAY]

A house trailer with an attic! Hoo-wee, Billy-Bob! Who'd a-thunk it?

[N7RJD]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 31 2007,12:20)]...a g5rv in the attic ?

Man, no one has a house trailer THAT long !!

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You gotta be creative and put two (or three) of them together until you achieve the proper length. Also makes room for a much bigger dining room table so you can pile the mail on one end and never have to move it to eat. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 31 2007,13:20)]...a g5rv in the attic ?

Man, no one has a house trailer THAT long !! #

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # # # # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
It was the Van Gorden Jr model. 52 feet and had to be shaped like a U. I didn't like the way it it looked up there. I saw the words FIRE HAZARD! GET IT OUTSIDE NOW!

I would have had to put electrical tape on the areas where it was too close to the wooden support beams. I have a wife and three young children. I cannot in good conscience put it up there knowing that risk stands out like ugly Betty.

[G0GQK]

It was a half size G5RV and I did suggest that your wife might be a teensy weensy bit upset if her daily"soap" was interfered with by ham radio. the arcing bit was nothing to be concerned about, there shouldn't be any, but RF through the house wiring can be a big problem.

Could you try a 10 metre long fibreglass portable vertical with wire taped to the top, four raised counterpoise radials, and a good ATU.? This could be raised and lowered in minutes so if someone is looking for an antenna, "what antenna " ? This is a fishing rod !

G0GQK

[w7act]

My, My, My, It's so nice to have two 200' Doug Firs in my back yard 297' apart........

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[KL7FZ]

A lot of concern over nothing here.
Fire hazard? Arcing? From a G5RV? Not unless you are running several thousand watts.
Good grief.

Starting off the new year with silliness already are we?

KL7FZ

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Jan. 01 2008,09:42)]A lot of concern over nothing here.
Fire hazard? Arcing? From a G5RV? Not unless you are running several thousand watts.
Good grief.

Starting off the new year with silliness already are we?

KL7FZ
No, ain't running full limit but better off being cautious.

Ounce of precaution is worth a pound of cure...
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[ai4ep]

...it is better than setting your attic on fire...!!!

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Jan. 01 2008,13:01)]...it is better than setting your attic on fire...!!!
yup

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[k8jd]

Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ Jan. 01 2008,04:42)]It was the Van Gorden Jr model. #52 feet and had to be shaped like a U. #I didn't like the way it it looked up there. #I saw the words FIRE HAZARD! #GET IT OUTSIDE NOW!

I would have had to put electrical tape on the areas where it was too close to the wooden support beams.
Fire hazzard? the wire in a dipole does not get hot unless .....well not at power levels of ham radio equipment.
You should have more concern with not getting a signal
out. The U shape is cancelling the radiationl from the two halves of the dipole. The wires, pipes and other metal found in an attic are absorbing your signal before it can get anywhere.
Outside is better and by hook, crook and steallth there must be a way !
Good luck....

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (k8jd @ Jan. 01 2008,14:27)]Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ Jan. 01 2008,04:42)]It was the Van Gorden Jr model. #52 feet and had to be shaped like a U. #I didn't like the way it it looked up there. #I saw the words FIRE HAZARD! #GET IT OUTSIDE NOW!

I would have had to put electrical tape on the areas where it was too close to the wooden support beams.
Fire hazzard? the wire in a dipole does not get hot unless .....well not at power levels of ham radio equipment.
You should have more concern with not getting a signal
out. The U shape is cancelling the radiationl from the two halves of the dipole. The wires, pipes and other metal found in an attic are absorbing your signal before it can get anywhere.
Outside is better and by hook, crook and steallth there must be a way !
Good luck....
Point well taken! Thanks for the advice...

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Jan. 01 2008,15:42)]A lot of concern over nothing here.
Fire hazard? Arcing? From a G5RV? Not unless you are running several thousand watts.
Good grief.

Starting off the new year with silliness already are we?

KL7FZ
I think I agree, but high voltage points on an open-wire feeder could be a problem under some circumstances.

My father had a doublet in the back yard fed with 600-ohm feeders and a homebrew tuner. The tuner was built on a bakelite board, with all the components on tall standoffs.
The 3/8 inch thick bakelite board sat on top of a 3/4 " piece of marine plywood. That sat on top of an enameled freezer.

One evening, Dad was tuning up on a MARS frequency just above 75 meters. At about 500 watts, the tuner arc'ed over from the point where one side of the feeders attached to an inductor, jumping over the long ceramic standoff, through the bakelite, through the plywood, through the enamel to the metal top of the freezer!

So, I've always been a little hinky about running tuned feeders near flammables, ever since!

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:42)]A lot of concern over nothing here.
Fire hazard? Arcing? From a G5RV? Not unless you are running several thousand watts.
Good grief.

Starting off the new year with silliness already are we?

KL7FZ
Easy there...

There was a guy here who posted a picture of a tree he burnt up after not properly insulating the ends of his wire antenna attached to it.


He wasn't using "thousands of watts" only the legal limit.

Also, I know of at least one ham in Trinidad who has set fire to some dry grass in his back yard with a wire antenna arcing, using a little less than a kW. So yes, it does happen.

[WA3KYY]

Remember, the reason we use center fed dipoles that are odd multiples of 1/2 wavelength is that the feed point is high current, zero voltage. The opposite is true 1/4 wavelength away and every 1/2 wavelength thereafter. You can achieve several thousand RF volts at the hight voltage points on an antenna even at low powers.

[N8MME]

The October 2007 issue of QST has an article on building an all band attic antenna, if your stealth attempts should fail.

[K4GUN]

I played around with a number of attic mounted antennas with very little success. I finally figured out a way to get a multi-band antenna outside, but its still a big compromise. I have Carolina Windom which is stapled to my roof. Its FAR too long to lay out in anything resembling an inverted V so I laid it out in a rough loop configuration. There are several elevation changes, bends and turns. The balun in hanging in the rafters of the attic and the wires feed out through a vent.

Its not idea, but it works. I've worked Europe to Hawaii on 20 meters from the East coast.

In theory, the Windom doesn't need a tuner for the bands it covers. That may be true if mounted correctly, but mine does require a tuner. The internal one on my 746 Pro does the trick on 10, 20, 40 and 80 meters and I haven't tried it elsewhere.

The antenna is visible, but just barely. The wires are black and match the roof. Performance degrades with rain, but not horribly so. Just staple the thing in as big a loop as you can and you'll be surprised at how well it can work.

[N2RJ]

GUN- why do you go to such extreme lengths?

Just get a thin piece of wire, and some green rope and put your antenna up in the trees. Paint your coax the color of the tree bark and staple it to the tree, run it on the ground in the BACK of your house.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns a house, even one with a HOA, would forego a wire antenna when it can be made hardly noticeable without compromising performance.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Jan. 03 2008,08:55)]GUN- why do you go to such extreme lengths?

Just get a thin piece of wire, and some green rope and put your antenna up in the trees. #Paint your coax the color of the tree bark and staple it to the tree, run it on the ground in the BACK of your house. #

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns a house, even one with a HOA, would forego a wire antenna when it can be made hardly noticeable without compromising performance.
Why would you assume that there is a tree nearby? Why would you assume that I didn't look at every other option before resorting to this? Extreme lengths? Perhaps, but if you'd like to come by my house and show me another way to get on HF, I'd be quite happy.

I did attempt to put different antennas in the attic. The inside of my siding has an aluminum sheeting and that seemed to really degrade performance of anything I put up. I have contemplated putting up a vertical behind the peak of the roof, but that presents its own problems. Assuming that the neighbors wouldn't notice, I still would have to problem of getting s feed line to it, making a solid mount and laying down radials, many of which would end up on my neighbor's roof.

The gentleman who started this thread is looking for ways to get multiband use in a difficult situation. I have gone through similar problems and shared my solution. If you've been through the same situation, please share your wisdom. If you want to pretend there are trees, poles, masts and all other manner of helpful terrain features, you're kidding yourself and not helping.