The purpose of the net is to make contacts [Archive]

k9xr

12-30-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Ryan, this is really nothing new. At one time a net or "list operation" may have been the only way to work a certain country. It happened for many different reasons.Some times it was because an inexperienced operator on the DX end couldn't keep control of a pileup and it would jost get crazy. #If the DX station was weak and not operating split, the louder stations would just keep calling and no or very few stations would work a new one.

Sometimes a DX station's QSL manager would try to serve a the "Master of Ceremonies" to both keep control and also the keep track of what was going on for QSL purposes. We didn;t have email back then and it #would speed op the QSL process a bunch.

I don't think there is as much of this for dx as there used to be. It could sure be frustating if you didn't get on the list because you didn't have propagation to the MC. It made some wonder if it made any sense to build a decent station to work DX if you didn't get a chance anyway.

Happy New Year and keep up your posting. I enjoy reading them and just about always agree with you. You are wise beyond your years.

Al K9XR

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 12:00 AM

KB3LIX

12-31-2007, 12:08 AM

The DX nets, as far as I am concerned, and a joke and a waste of spectrum.

I have listened to them on many occasions, and believe they are a way to hold a frequency for long periods and accomplish nothing.

The practice of getting on the list using just the "Last two" of callsigns, is at minimum foolish, and maximum, downright illegal.
See 47 CFR Vol 5, Section 97.119 (a)

It regularly takes in excess of 10 minutes to become the "Next Up" on the list, and a full call isn't transmitted until the contact is attempted.

They can rationalize it as much as "they" want, the practice is still a blatent violation.

I for one, will continue to search for DX the old fashioned way, by spinning the VFO and LISTENING !!!

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
No one said you had to be a part of it. #Don't like it? #Spin the VFO....for those that enjoy this what harm is it doing to you?
Here's the genuine harm:

The nets take up space, and take up a lot more space than a regular QSO would occupy because the net squatters are some of the most vociferous compainers in the world.

There's some sort of net on 7.178 MHz (40m) every afternoon, it goes on for hours. It seems to serve no purpose other than guys working each other, who for some reason can't seem to work each other without the net. (Which of course makes no sense whatever.)

Anyway, this is right at the lower edge of the General phone band and operating below 7.178 MHz, for a General ticketholder, is likely unlawful because his sidebands would fall below 7.175. I'm sure that's why the net's right where it is.

So, I'll go operate on 7.181 or so, 3 kHz above the net, and if I call one CQ there for eight seconds, four people from the net will come up to yell at me that I'm interfering with the net. They won't stop doing that until I go up to above 7.184.

So, let's see...on a band where almost every 5 kHz there's a million-Watt broadcast station occuping a few kHz, we have this net (and others, of course) which is now occupying 7175 to 7184, about 9 kHz...simply because if you operate closer to them than that, they'll be all over you complaining.

That's very poor use of valuable spectrum, especially since the net's handling no emergencies, and no traffic, and really serving no purpose whatever except for a net control to help people contact each other who really should be able to do that on their own.

It's stupid.

<End of rant.>

WB2WIK/6

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 30 2007,18:42)]If you don't like it. don't join. There is something for everybody in ham radio. You don't have to like it all. Move along.
Hey, no problemo bud.

If you like being spoon fed DX, more power to you.

N0NB

12-31-2007, 12:12 AM

I don't chase DX. I've qorked quite a lot of it over the years. A few I spent time getting the QSO, but mostly my DXing is a case of happenstance.

Some years back I got to know a DXer on the honor roll. I asked about lists and such. He replied, "You do what you gotta do." I guess it all depends on a person's goals.

If a list was the only way to work P5, I guarantee a lot of DXers would do just that.

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote[/b] (N0NB @ Dec. 30 2007,17:12)]I don't chase DX. #I've qorked quite a lot of it over the years. #A few I spent time getting the QSO, but mostly my DXing is a case of happenstance.

Some years back I got to know a DXer on the honor roll. #I asked about lists and such. #He replied, "You do what you gotta do." #I guess it all depends on a person's goals.

If a list was the only way to work P5, I guarantee a lot of DXers would do just that.
Nah, the only way to work P5 was to use RTTY! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I almost never work RTTY, but did just to work 4L4FN.

Now, since he was only authorized for "phone" operation, contacts other than phone should not have counted. But he liked RTTY.

Ya can't win. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,17:10)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
No one said you had to be a part of it. #Don't like it? #Spin the VFO....for those that enjoy this what harm is it doing to you?
Here's the genuine harm:

The nets take up space, and take up a lot more space than a regular QSO would occupy because the net squatters are some of the most vociferous compainers in the world.

There's some sort of net on 7.178 MHz (40m) every afternoon, it goes on for hours. #It seems to serve no purpose other than guys working each other, who for some reason can't seem to work each other without the net. #(Which of course makes no sense whatever.)

Anyway, this is right at the lower edge of the General phone band and operating below 7.178 MHz, for a General ticketholder, is likely unlawful because his sidebands would fall below 7.175. #I'm sure that's why the net's right where it is.

So, I'll go operate on 7.181 or so, 3 kHz above the net, and if I call one CQ there for eight seconds, four people from the net will come up to yell at me that I'm interfering with the net. #They won't stop doing that until I go up to above 7.184. #

So, let's see...on a band where almost every 5 kHz there's a million-Watt broadcast station occuping a few kHz, we have this net (and others, of course) which is now occupying 7175 to 7184, about 9 kHz...simply because if you operate closer to them than that, they'll be all over you complaining.

That's very poor use of valuable spectrum, especially since the net's handling no emergencies, and no traffic, and really serving no purpose whatever except for a net control to help people contact each other who really should be able to do that on their own.

It's stupid.

<End of rant.>

WB2WIK/6
You jabbering endlessly to a friend is no more important. Face it, the people on the net have the same right to the spectrum as you. Once again no one said you have to join in. BTW there are "other" bands than 40 meters. All it comes down to is you do not think "others" have a right to have a net. Why is this? Are they not amateurs in your eyes?

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,19:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
No one said you had to be a part of it. Don't like it? Spin the VFO....for those that enjoy this what harm is it doing to you?
Having being told by more than one "net" that I have to (not optional) QSY because the net is starting up (even though I've been on the freq for more than 1 hour!), I can honestly testify to some of the harm that some of these "nets" do.

I once gave it to some guy who started up his net even though I was very loud and I had a huge pileup coming back to me, and told him to either QSY or QRT. He then told me he had this net and that I was on his Frequency and that I had to move.

HAVE TO move? HAVE TO? Seriously - it's first come first serve, unless it's the repeater sub-bands on VHF and above. Either ask politely, QSY or QRT.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:11)]Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 30 2007,18:42)]If you don't like it. don't join. #There is something for everybody in ham radio. #You don't have to like it all. #Move along.
Hey, no problemo bud.

If you like being spoon fed DX, more power to you.
Fair enough...

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,19:14)]Face it, the people on the net have the same right to the spectrum as you.
So that being the case, you agree that it's wrong for a "net" to drive me off a frequency if I was there before?

Are we in agreement?

I've also had this "net" complain to me when I was more than 3kC above them.

If you are more than 3kC away from me on SSB, and you come to complain to me about being too close, expect me to tell you to go pound sand.

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:14)]You jabbering endlessly to a friend is no more important. #Face it, the people on the net have the same right to the spectrum as you. #Once again no one said you have to join in. #BTW there are "other" bands than 40 meters. #All it comes down to is you do not think "others" have a right to have a net. #Why is this? #Are they not amateurs in your eyes?
No, they're amateurs in every sense of the word. Every sense.

Because semi-professionals don't need a net control to help Joe work Bob.

I don't jabber endlessly to any friends. I make contacts, and try to learn something. "Three by three in Alabama" isn't terribly educational.

Yes, there are lots of other bands and I use them all. But we cannot create propagation. When the m.u.f.'s at 8 MHz and sitting there for a few hours as it often does in late afternoon or early evening, 40m is the band that's open.

WB2WIK/6

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:16)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,19:14)]Face it, the people on the net have the same right to the spectrum as you.
So that being the case, you agree that it's wrong for a "net" #to drive me off a frequency if I was there before?

Are we in agreement?

I've also had this "net" complain to me when I was more than 3kC above them.

If you are more than 3kC away from me, and you come to complain to me, expect me to tell you to go pound sand.
I'd agree it's absolutely wrong.

I'm not who you asked, however. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Same thing has happened to me numerous times.

PLEASE QSY, THIS IS A NET FREQUENCY.

"Okay, but I don't hear any net."

IT DIDN'T START YET, IT WILL START IN FOUR MINUTES.

"Well, if I'm still here when it starts, I guess you better find another frequency."

And stick to it.

WB2WIK/6

KB3LIX

12-31-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,20:14)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,19:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
No one said you had to be a part of it. #Don't like it? #Spin the VFO....for those that enjoy this what harm is it doing to you?
Having being told by more than one "net" that I have to (not optional) QSY because the net is starting up (even though I've been on the freq for more than 1 hour!), I can honestly testify to some of the harm that some of these "nets" do. #

I once gave it to some guy who started up his net even though I was very loud and I had a huge pileup coming back to me, and told him to either QSY or QRT. #He then told me he had this net and that I was on his Frequency and that I had to move.

HAVE TO move? #HAVE TO? #Seriously - it's first come first serve, unless it's the repeater sub-bands on VHF and above. #Either ask politely, QSY or QRT.
I have had nets walk all over me too on several occasions where I had been on a given frequency for long periods BEFORE the net.

I don't have a "Big Signal" but they were hearing me, and started up all the same. I know they heard me, because they were bellyaching about someone being on THEIR FREQUENCY

This attitude, that "I operate a net on such and such a frequency at such and such a time each day/week/month and this frequency is MINE is.................for lack of a better word......

BAT GUANO

WA9SVD

12-31-2007, 12:22 AM

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:23 AM

The best was this:

(not directed at me): "This guy has been on the frequency for quite a while now.."

Directed at me: "We have the diamond state net here on this frequency. You have to QSY."

Me: "Excuse me? I've been here for more than an hour. Why do I have to move?"

Net station: "It's a net frequency"

Me: "No one owns any frequency in Amateur Radio. You have to find another frequency for your "net" "

Net station: "Well if it's like that then, so much for your Christmas spirit."

Me: "Excuse me? You come here to tell me to give up my frequency and you're telling ME about Christmas spirit?"

k9xr

12-31-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote[/b] (N0NB @ Dec. 30 2007,17:12)]I don't chase DX. #I've qorked quite a lot of it over the years. #A few I spent time getting the QSO, but mostly my DXing is a case of happenstance.

. #ISome years back I got to know a DXer on the honor roll asked about lists and such. #He replied, "You do what you gotta do." #I guess it all depends on a person's goals.

If a list was the only way to work P5, I guarantee a lot of DXers would do just that.
[QUOTE]

I knew a famous dxer that was asked about using list operations and "please listen for my friend" to work DX.
His answer: It's not how, it's how many.

wz9o

12-31-2007, 12:35 AM

They should move all nets to 27 MHz!!!

From the sounds of most nets I’ve heard…the IQ level seems to be the same so they should fit in nicely.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ Dec. 30 2007,17:35)]They should move all nets to 27 MHz!!!

From the sounds of most nets I’ve heard…the IQ level seems to be the same so they should fit in nicely.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I agree for the most part.

There are some old-fashioned traffic nets, complete with QN signals and such, on CW. They only occupy about 150 Hz bandwidth and operate very politely.

Although I really think traffic handling went out with Pong and disco, it doesn't seem to be harming anyone and they occupy very little spectrum, so let them have at it.

The "phone" nets, for the most part, are hard to listen to because I have to crank down my IQ a lot to get to that level. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.

I haven't worked the DX nets, but I have been involved in two of the older Worked-All-States Nets, to the extent of having been a netop for both.

While it is true that there are nets that mistakenly think they own the frequency, just as there are individuals with skeds who feel the same way, both of these nets, the Century Club and the Triple H net are careful to listen first, and start up away from their default frequency if the frequency is in use.

In addition, I've also participated in OMISS nets and the local 10-10 net and found those to be the same way.

And I've listened to any number of trading nets that are well behaved.

I don't chase DX. It's the bottom of the sunspot cycle, I live in an area with an S7 noise floor, and I'm not willing to put up more antenna than the Butternut multi-bander that's on my roof, nor am I interested in using more than 100 watts of power.

Instead, I operate mobile from a Honda with a ham stick and an ICOM 706. I find trying to make any contact on 75m SSB to be a fun challenge and the nets to be relaxing.

And no, chasing awards via nets isn't defeating the point of the award. Both the Triple H and Century Clubs have fun awards that have their own difficulty to attain.

As far as useful purpose: It's a hobby, it's not supposed to be useful, it's supposed to be fun, and it's pretty clear that the people on these nets are having fun.

k2gsp

12-31-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Dec. 29 2007,18:22)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Some people claim they don't have enough operating time to be able to adjust a manual tuner, so how can you expect them to have the time to find DX on their own? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

<SARCASM OFF?>

# #What's even worse is when those "nets" have stations relying on relays to complete a "hello, goodbye" type QSO, yet some operators claim it's a valid contact.

# #Sort of "KG#ABC, did you get N#XYZ's signal report ? #He said you were 5x7."

# #"NO, I didn't hear him. #Tell him He's 5x9 and thank him for the QSO, and I really need his QSL card..."
# #Guess it's the "NEW, improved Amateur Radio."

# #Little wonder some guys are bailing out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Yea, I wondered about that. It didn't seem to me to be a real contact.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,17:17)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:14)]You jabbering endlessly to a friend is no more important. #Face it, the people on the net have the same right to the spectrum as you. #Once again no one said you have to join in. #BTW there are "other" bands than 40 meters. #All it comes down to is you do not think "others" have a right to have a net. #Why is this? #Are they not amateurs in your eyes?
No, they're amateurs in every sense of the word. #Every sense.

Because semi-professionals don't need a net control to help Joe work Bob.

I don't jabber endlessly to any friends. #I make contacts, and try to learn something. #"Three by three in Alabama" isn't terribly educational.

Yes, there are lots of other bands and I use them all. #But we cannot create propagation. #When the m.u.f.'s at 8 MHz and sitting there for a few hours as it often does in late afternoon or early evening, 40m is the band that's open.

WB2WIK/6
Ok now tell me. I hear a clear freq....call if it is in use. Hearing nothing and then I call CQ. I have a couple of OMs come on a and say the freq is in use. Is this the same?
All it comes down to is you think there are no use for nets....that is fine. Others say there is no use for contests. Some say there is no use to do what you do. It is all how you look at the hobby (yes it is just that).
What ever what ever. You have no use for nets, others do. Live with it.
You are no more professional than the next guy.

ab8yy

12-31-2007, 01:41 AM

Just a quick comment on the award chasers who use relay stations to make the contacts. That is a bit off the edge isn't it? Almost every award clearly states you can't use a repeater. Isn't this what the relay station is being used for? I mean, a contact is a QSO one on one with another amateur station. You really didn't make that contact, the relay person did. He is entitled to the QSL card, not the person being relayed to. How hard is this to understand?

Maybe that's one more reason not to chase the paper. I would do it with morals, and everyone else is doing it cheating. How can you compete with this?

On the subject of the DX nets. I would tend to agree with the ones here who made the statement they are not needed if all you are trying to do is work DX. If you eliminate the "illegal" relay stations, then you have two stations who can talk to each other. How is it more difficult without having a net to meet on? If I can talk to Europe on the net, then I can talk to Europe without a net. Doesn't that make sense? The only advantage I can see for the net is that everyone is on the same frequency listening at the same time. I'm not against the DX nets, I'm against cheating to gain awards and net operators who are rude and dont' follow proper practices by trying to force ongoing QSOs to move.

Steve

w3dub

12-31-2007, 01:54 AM

I guess you stumbled upon the 3905cc nets. I have a great time on those nets.. and they've been established on 7178 for close to 3 decades. We've moved our nets plenty of times, and the rule is to not run somebody off the frequency and its always been +2/3khz as long as I've participated and MUCH before that.

If he did I'm sorry, he wasn't supposed to do that. But these nets are a good time for a lot of people. No reason to come on here and start bashing it.

That said, we'd love to have you.. pre-checkins start at 2330 and the net starts at 0000z. 7.178 is the frequency.

w3dub

12-31-2007, 02:01 AM

Furthering my last...

RE: our relay stations... the instructions are to only assist with the "OVER." There has never, ever been an occasion where a contact was deemed valid based on a one way signal report. both sides have to hear it.

That is a STRICT RULE of 3905cc. Stations also have the option of "NO RELAY" where its either you hear them clearly or you don't.

Remember folks. ARRL deems a contact of 22 or better as valid for awards.. our awards and rules are the same.

NN3W

12-31-2007, 02:03 AM

http://www.mikezulu.com/lizard.jpg

The DX list lizard.

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote[/b] (ab8yy @ Dec. 30 2007,18:41)]Just a quick comment on the award chasers who use relay stations to make the contacts. That is a bit off the edge isn't it? Almost every award clearly states you can't use a repeater. Isn't this what the relay station is being used for? I mean, a contact is a QSO one on one with another amateur station. You really didn't make that contact, the relay person did. He is entitled to the QSL card, not the person being relayed to. How hard is this to understand?
It depends on what you mean by "relay".

The WAS nets I've worked only use relays to confirm that the exchange was good, and only at the discretion of the net control.

The two stations have to correctly complete the contact. The relay merely confirms that they did so.

Also, most of the regular QSL nets have their own awards, and their awards programs are structured knowing the net's rules.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 02:17 AM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,18:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.

I haven't worked the DX nets, but I have been involved in two of the older Worked-All-States Nets, to the extent of having been a netop for both.

While it is true that there are nets that mistakenly think they own the frequency, just as there are individuals with skeds who feel the same way, both of these nets, the Century Club and the Triple H net are careful to listen first, and start up away from their default frequency if the frequency is in use.

In addition, I've also participated in OMISS nets and the local 10-10 net and found those to be the same way.

And I've listened to any number of trading nets that are well behaved.

I don't chase DX. It's the bottom of the sunspot cycle, I live in an area with an S7 noise floor, and I'm not willing to put up more antenna than the Butternut multi-bander that's on my roof, nor am I interested in using more than 100 watts of power.

Instead, I operate mobile from a Honda with a ham stick and an ICOM 706. #I find trying to make any contact on 75m SSB to be a fun challenge and the nets to be relaxing.

And no, chasing awards via nets isn't defeating the point of the award. Both the Triple H and Century Clubs have fun awards that have their own difficulty to attain.

As far as useful purpose: It's a hobby, it's not supposed to be useful, it's supposed to be fun, and it's pretty clear that the people on these nets are having fun.
Well put Marty
Every net I have ever heard in this area is very certain to ask if the freq is in use. If it is, the NCS will ask the other parties if they would mind moving as there is the such and such net about to start. If not that is fine, the parties are invited to join in and the NCS will simply move the net up or down 3 kc. I have never heard anyone get up set over this kind of exchange and it has served this area well. Your experience will vary, but tell me. What is wrong with conducting a net in this fashion? Is this also "illegal" as some are illuding to?
All it comes down to is different strokes for different folks. I used to get bothered by some of the contests. I realized it was pointless, they are having fun (so it seems) so more power to them. I may participate a little and then simply find something else or another frequency to move on to. Live and let live.

kc7gnm

12-31-2007, 02:33 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,19:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Well apparently you have never worked the HHH net (Hank's Helping Hand). It is a WAS net that meets 364 days a year at 0700Z on 7.235mhz. On Jan 1st only members with numbers can participate. The net has been around for about 27 years now and there are only 873 numbers issued. In order to get your number you must work all 50 states on the net only. It took me almost 2 years to get my number and I am proud of that accomplishment. I could have worked all states faster by calling CQ every weekend but this was more of a challenge than that. I am an OMISS member too but you only need to work 2 members to get a number there. Not much of a challenge and I haven't been on an OMISS net for years. I work the HHH net every once in a while and enjoy talking to the folks on there.

Point is if you don't like nets then don't do them.

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 03:56 AM

Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,20:54)]I guess you stumbled upon the 3905cc nets. I have a great time on those nets.. and they've been established on 7178 for close to 3 decades. We've moved our nets plenty of times, and the rule is to not run somebody off the frequency and its always been +2/3khz as long as I've participated and MUCH before that.

If he did I'm sorry, he wasn't supposed to do that. But these nets are a good time for a lot of people. No reason to come on here and start bashing it.

That said, we'd love to have you.. pre-checkins start at 2330 and the net starts at 0000z. 7.178 is the frequency.
I had one 3905CC person (can't tell if it's the net control or not) run me away even though I was a whole 3kc away!

I've checked in a few times, in fact before you got your General and got on HF.

However, this was about nets in general, not just 3905cc.

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!)

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.

KD6NIG

12-31-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Dec. 30 2007,17:22)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Some people claim they don't have enough operating time to be able to adjust a manual tuner, so how can you expect them to have the time to find DX on their own? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

<SARCASM OFF?>

What's even worse is when those "nets" have stations relying on relays to complete a "hello, goodbye" type QSO, yet some operators claim it's a valid contact.

Sort of "KG#ABC, did you get N#XYZ's signal report ? He said you were 5x7."

"NO, I didn't hear him. Tell him He's 5x9 and thank him for the QSO, and I really need his QSL card..."
Guess it's the "NEW, improved Amateur Radio."

Little wonder some guys are bailing out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
It could be worse. People could be emailing each other and agreeing to send each other QSL cards.

At least the method you describe uses RF. Honestly, the only level of honesty needed in a contact is between the 2 operators.

I wouldn't be awfully shocked if many contacts....aren't. But as long as someone sends you the QSL, how can you really tell?

Sure, its less honest than a real contact, but the level of honesty can drop even further.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!) #

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way. #

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. #I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
So that being said, what is your answer? Would you support their banning since you have no use for them? You want something out of this, so what is it? Is it the banning of all nets on the air? It is obvious you and a few other would love to see all nets to be "illegal" since you have no use for them. I guess we need to tell all nets they are illegal and have NO right to any HF spectrum.

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!)

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
You really need to get over yourself.

The hobby's not all about you and what you think is fun.

"Many" nets may not play nice. Not playing nice is certainly something you're expert on and I can easily see how your attitude would encourage others not to play nice with you on air.

Most nets play very nice, and frankly I doubt very much that anyone involved in a Century Club net tried to run you off a frequency. Certainly none of the regulars would have.

By the way, bragging about being licensed longer than someone is even lamer than whining about part of the hobby you don't like, although not as lame as telling someone to STFU just because they're experience with nets is different than yours.

Oh, and for the record: putting a stepir on a tower and running a lot of power through it is not chasing DX the old fashioned way.

10 watts and a wire is.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 04:30 AM

I guess I am waiting for a list of what I can do on the air.
It is obvious nets are not allowed, someone else will say contesting is not allowed. I love these lists of what I can not do but am told to have fun anyway...

w3dub

12-31-2007, 05:22 AM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,22:56)]I had one 3905CC person (can't tell if it's the net control or not) run me away even though I was a whole 3kc away!

I've checked in a few times, in fact before you got your General and got on HF. #

However, this was about nets in general, not just 3905cc.
PM me his call if you could. That is another strict no-no. Nobody is to chase anybody off. Again, my apologies.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,22:22)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,22:56)]I had one 3905CC person (can't tell if it's the net control or not) run me away even though I was a whole 3kc away!

I've checked in a few times, in fact before you got your General and got on HF. #

However, this was about nets in general, not just 3905cc.
PM me his call if you could. That is another strict no-no. Nobody is to chase anybody off. Again, my apologies.
From what I read in the by-laws or rules if you will of the 3905 CC nets this is strictly forbidden by anyone. I am sorry that someone did this. It is a blatent violation of the club and its net rules.

w3dub

12-31-2007, 06:39 AM

Yes, that's why I would like the call of the person. Not to rat him out, but more to leave him know that this isn't cool... it reflects badly on the organization.

I'm also going to post something to the reflector about it...

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,23:39)]Yes, that's why I would like the call of the person. Not to rat him out, but more to leave him know that this isn't cool... it reflects badly on the organization.

I'm also going to post something to the reflector about it...
When you do, word it carefully. Ryan is a touch hot-tempered, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was asked politely to move rather than told off.

It is, by the way, also strictly forbidden for anyone but net control to deal with interference on Century Club nets, and Century Club officers are often on the nets and will quietly have a word with people who are overly helpful.

wg7x

12-31-2007, 07:31 AM

Although I agree that for the most part, nets are for those who like nets, I find them to be mostly a waste of time.

Whatever floats your boat I guess... But my favorite silly netism was the concept of the "double relay" I heard this bit of stoopidity one fine day way up high on 20 meters.

It seems that there is a net up there that really believes that a good "contact" is when one mobile station cannot hear another mobile station without the assistance of at least two others in between.

The first time I heard this, I was totally flabbergasted. I just had to listen to confirm, that yes, I had heard two stations, who obviously could not hear one another, make a "roger contact" via not one but two relay stations!

The height of stoopididty to be sure, but it goes on, day after day, on the same 20 meter frequency. Don't believe me?

Go listen for that mobile net waay up on twenty. You OT's know the one...

Got a column in a prominent magazine and everything to legitimize their award, relay or no relay.

73 All!

Gary WG7X

KI4NGN

12-31-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,17:10)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,17:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
No one said you had to be a part of it. #Don't like it? #Spin the VFO....for those that enjoy this what harm is it doing to you?
Here's the genuine harm:

The nets take up space, and take up a lot more space than a regular QSO would occupy because the net squatters are some of the most vociferous compainers in the world.

There's some sort of net on 7.178 MHz (40m) every afternoon, it goes on for hours. #It seems to serve no purpose other than guys working each other, who for some reason can't seem to work each other without the net. #(Which of course makes no sense whatever.)

Anyway, this is right at the lower edge of the General phone band and operating below 7.178 MHz, for a General ticketholder, is likely unlawful because his sidebands would fall below 7.175. #I'm sure that's why the net's right where it is.

So, I'll go operate on 7.181 or so, 3 kHz above the net, and if I call one CQ there for eight seconds, four people from the net will come up to yell at me that I'm interfering with the net. #They won't stop doing that until I go up to above 7.184. #

So, let's see...on a band where almost every 5 kHz there's a million-Watt broadcast station occuping a few kHz, we have this net (and others, of course) which is now occupying 7175 to 7184, about 9 kHz...simply because if you operate closer to them than that, they'll be all over you complaining.

That's very poor use of valuable spectrum, especially since the net's handling no emergencies, and no traffic, and really serving no purpose whatever except for a net control to help people contact each other who really should be able to do that on their own.

It's stupid.

<End of rant.>

WB2WIK/6
Chuckling....very poor use of valuable spectrum?

How many were in the net? At least 4 I'd guess. 6, 8, 10?

They could have all been involved in individual QSO's which would certainly consume more of the valuable spectrum. Ten ops in five QSO's would have been consuming 15 khz. Ten ops in ten separate QSO's, 30khz.

I agree that it's excessive to try to chase people off who should be outside of their passband. However, whether or not you "approve" of the purpose of the net, it's anything but a waste of valuable spectrum when you consider the number of ops involved.

Mike

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 30 2007,23:24)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!)

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
So that being said, what is your answer? Would you support their banning since you have no use for them? You want something out of this, so what is it? Is it the banning of all nets on the air? It is obvious you and a few other would love to see all nets to be "illegal" since you have no use for them. I guess we need to tell all nets they are illegal and have NO right to any HF spectrum.
I would never support the banning of any amateur radio mode or activity as long as it plays nice.

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 31 2007,01:57)]Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,23:39)]Yes, that's why I would like the call of the person. Not to rat him out, but more to leave him know that this isn't cool... it reflects badly on the organization.

I'm also going to post something to the reflector about it...
When you do, word it carefully. Ryan is a touch hot-tempered, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was asked politely to move rather than told off.

It is, by the way, also strictly forbidden for anyone but net control to deal with interference on Century Club nets, and Century Club officers are often on the nets and will quietly have a word with people who are overly helpful.
Ha ha. Marty, I am not hot tempered. I am probably one of the most relaxed people on planet Earth.

I do like to call nonsense from you when I see it though, and also deflate your over-inflated ego a bit.

kr2c

12-31-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 29 2007,18:11)]Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 30 2007,18:42)]If you don't like it. don't join. There is something for everybody in ham radio. You don't have to like it all. Move along.
Hey, no problemo bud.

If you like being spoon fed DX, more power to you.
FYI - I'm not a DX'er. I just do what you should do and move along. There is plenty of spectrum and other activities to hook up with and be bothered by a net I'm not interested in.

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 31 2007,07:48)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 29 2007,18:11)]Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 30 2007,18:42)]If you don't like it. don't join. There is something for everybody in ham radio. You don't have to like it all. Move along.
Hey, no problemo bud.

If you like being spoon fed DX, more power to you.
FYI - I'm not a DX'er. I just do what you should do and move along. There is plenty of spectrum and other activities to hook up with and be bothered by a net I'm not interested in.
And that I do.

Doesn't mean I can't call something dumb if I think it is.

kr2c

12-31-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 29 2007,22:00)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!)

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
That's a nice resume out laid out there. I guess that really gives you the right to tell another to STFU. Nice.

N2RJ

12-31-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ Dec. 31 2007,07:58)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 29 2007,22:00)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 30 2007,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Not nearly as lame as whining about part of the hobby you don't participate in.
Marty, with all due respect please STFU.

I have been participating in nets long before you were even licensed.

I've worked some of the DX nets, as far back as 1997 and 1998 (it's not that far back, but it was before you were even licensed!)

I've been having a lot more fun chasing DX the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
That's a nice resume out laid out there. I guess that really gives you the right to tell another to STFU. Nice.
I am always glad to tell Marty to shut up because he's usually FOS.

n0iu

12-31-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:00)]Anyway, I find them pointless, and I've been run off a frequency by a net more than once. #I've fought and stayed a few times, only to be QRMed by them.

I've therefore come to the conclusion that many nets simply don't play nice, and encourage frequency "ownership" and other LIDdish behavior.
Instead of making a class action suit against all nets, why don't you just be honest with us (and yourself) and say that you are more PO'd by a few people who engage in nets rather than by net activity itself because of the way you have been treated.

Scott NØIU

kr2c

12-31-2007, 03:54 PM

I'm confused by this also. What is your point?

A. I don't like nets because it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

B. I don't like nets because I've had bad experiences with them QRMing me.

Hell I don't know. Maybe it's both.

Either way, Stay away from them if you don't like them. There are plenty of other facets of the hobby to keep your interest.

WW3QB

12-31-2007, 04:02 PM

To summarize the various opinions expressed on QRZ:

1. Nets are a waste of time and spectrum.
2. Ragchewing is a waste of time and spectrum.
3. Chasing DX is a waste of time and spectrum.

Let's be honest. If you had something important to say to someone, you would be using the telephone.

n0iu

12-31-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote[/b] (ww3qb @ Dec. 31 2007,04:02)]To summarize the various opinions expressed on QRZ:

1. Nets are a waste of time and spectrum.
2. Ragchewing is a waste of time and spectrum.
3. Chasing DX is a waste of time and spectrum.

Let's be honest. If you had something important to say to someone, you would be using the telephone.
And don't forget...

4. Contests are a waste of time and spectrum.
5. CW is a waste of time and spectrum.
6. WinLink is a waste of time and spectrum.
7. Engaging in a QSO without having something interesting to talk about is a waste of time and spectrum. (That one is for WB2WIK/6)
8. The ARRL is just a waste... period.

Scott NØIU

wf5tx

12-31-2007, 04:55 PM

Back in 1991 I stumbled across a DX net on 20 meters. I was not a really a DXer but I checked in anyway. It was a first for me. I might add that I had a 2x1 call at the time. No sooner than I was recognized by the Net Control Station an unidentified station chimed in with "An extra class working a list... shame on you!" Well, that did it for me. With head hung low, I worked the DX station, but I never tried DX nets again. If the truth be known, the unidentified station was probably on the list somewhere himself.

WF5TX

w3dub

12-31-2007, 05:33 PM

That's just retarded and just rude. Many extras work our nets and the 247 net on 20 i sometimes check in to. The point is not more to get something new or "work a list".. just some people like to participate for the fun of it.

That's why i enjoy the 3905cc nets. Yeah, its for the awards.. but its a great bunch of people.

n0iu

12-31-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,11:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,12:10)]It's stupid.
So in other words, if you don't do amateur radio the way Ryan and Steve do amateur radio, it is lame and stupid!

How on earth have I managed to enjoy amateur radio all these years without their sage words of wisdom?

Happy New Year!
Scott NØIU

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 31 2007,05:11)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 31 2007,01:57)]Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,23:39)]Yes, that's why I would like the call of the person. Not to rat him out, but more to leave him know that this isn't cool... it reflects badly on the organization.

I'm also going to post something to the reflector about it...
When you do, word it carefully. Ryan is a touch hot-tempered, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was asked politely to move rather than told off.

It is, by the way, also strictly forbidden for anyone but net control to deal with interference on Century Club nets, and Century Club officers are often on the nets and will quietly have a word with people who are overly helpful.
Ha ha. Marty, I am not hot tempered. I am probably one of the most relaxed people on planet Earth.

I do like to call nonsense from you when I see it though, and also deflate your over-inflated ego a bit.
Alas, Ryan, your behavior does not match your self image.

You behave like someone who's wound very tight.

Relaxed people don't find other people's ways of having fun "lame", and if they do, they don't announce that to the world, and if they should announce it to the world, they don't tell people who offer insight into why the activity is fun for them to STFU, and if they did all of that, they most certainly wouldn't brag in bold face about how long they've had an unimportant credential as an excuse for telling people to STFU.

You may have fooled yourself into believing you're laid back, but I doubt anyone who has interacted with you for any time would come to that belief.

As far as "nonsense", there was none in what I posted, but you go ahead and fool yourself into believing whatever excuse you want to justify your uptight behavior.

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote[/b] (KB3JGU @ Dec. 30 2007,18:54)]I guess you stumbled upon the 3905cc nets. I have a great time on those nets.. and they've been established on 7178 for close to 3 decades. We've moved our nets plenty of times, and the rule is to not run somebody off the frequency and its always been +2/3khz as long as I've participated and MUCH before that.

If he did I'm sorry, he wasn't supposed to do that. But these nets are a good time for a lot of people. No reason to come on here and start bashing it.

That said, we'd love to have you.. pre-checkins start at 2330 and the net starts at 0000z. 7.178 is the frequency.
Just for giggles I listened to the 7178 net yesterday late afternoon/early evening here in CA, for about 15 mins.

On multiple occasions (at least 3-4 times, maybe more), the stations "making a contact" didn't even come close to making a contact.

One asked net control, "Um, I got him just fine but missed his callsign. What was his call?"

And the net control gladly complied by calling the other station, using his callsign!

That ain't a contact.

I hear more "two by two, two by two" reports there than anywhere else on the band. This means whoever's giving that report isn't hearing squat from the other station. It's all smoke and mirrors.

More power to them if they're "having fun" doing this, but they'd have more fun if they erect real antennas and make their own contacts. 99% of the time, I hear everybody on the "net," no matter where they are, and I fall over laughing about the "reports."

Okay, so much for my fun. I won't listen anymore, I've heard enough.

BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Dec. 31 2007,11:08)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,11:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,12:10)]It's stupid.
So in other words, if you don't do amateur radio the way Ryan and Steve do amateur radio, it is lame and stupid!

How on earth have I managed to enjoy amateur radio all these years without their sage words of wisdom?

Happy New Year!
Scott NØIU
спасибо за заботу

<best I could do>

WB2WIK/6

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:22)]BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. #It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6
No dice. #The net wastes no more time or spectrum than you do. #As far as others are concerned you talk about nothing important on the air. #You do nothing but waste spectrum in their eyes babbeling on with no goal or point.
Why the failure to grasp this? Your QSO is no more important than the next net and of corse visa versa. The exception of course if it delt with a true emergency.

WB2WIK

12-31-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 31 2007,15:52)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:22)]BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. #It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6
No dice. #The net wastes no more time or spectrum than you do. #As far as others are concerned you talk about nothing important on the air. #You do nothing but waste spectrum in their eyes babbeling on with no goal or point. #
Why the failure to grasp this? #Your QSO is no more important than the next net and of corse visa versa. #The exception of course if it delt with a true emergency.
You're wrong, though.

I make contacts to learn about other people.

I make almost no contacts that are "59, weather here is sunny."

I ask about other people: Why they live where they live; about their families; their jobs; their culture; their background; where they're originally from (if anywhere else)...it's all a sociology lesson, for me.

I don't hear anybody on the nets doing this. What are they learning? "Two by two in Texas?" Good grief. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

If that is what ham radio is all about, the entire hobby's a waste of time.

But, I know it's not, because I don't do that. Ever.

WB2WIK/6

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:56)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 31 2007,15:52)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:22)]BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. #It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6
No dice. #The net wastes no more time or spectrum than you do. #As far as others are concerned you talk about nothing important on the air. #You do nothing but waste spectrum in their eyes babbeling on with no goal or point. #
Why the failure to grasp this? #Your QSO is no more important than the next net and of corse visa versa. #The exception of course if it delt with a true emergency.
You're wrong, though.

I make contacts to learn about other people.

I make almost no contacts that are "59, weather here is sunny."

I ask about other people: Why they live where they live; about their families; their jobs; their culture; their background; where they're originally from (if anywhere else)...it's all a sociology lesson, for me.

I don't hear anybody on the nets doing this. # What are they learning? #"Two by two in Texas?" #Good grief. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

If that is what ham radio is all about, the entire hobby's a waste of time.

But, I know it's not, because I don't do that. #Ever.

WB2WIK/6
Nope, only in your eyes is it important. Why is this concept so hard for you to get a handle on? If what you talk about is important to you that's fine it should be. I respect that and your right to what you feel is important. What occurs on the net is important to those that participate. Why can you not simply admit that the persons on the net have the right to do what they feel is important with that net? Is that net "illegal" in you eyes?
Why is it so hard for some to just simply live and let live. If what the person does on the radio is important that is fine.
Once again I could say you waste valuable spectrum. You would do far better with a telephone or internet chat room. Do you like being told what you do is a waste? I am sure not. This is why I find it better to just respect what you do and say as long as you are having fun and it is legal, go for it. How about trying to give others the same respect.
I have and it is not that hard

AE6IP

12-31-2007, 11:22 PM

You know, it doesn't really matter if someone not involved thinks what you're doing is a waste of time or not. It's your time to waste as you see fit and there's nothing in the regs that says that the content of a transmission must be "important."

As far as learning goes, there's nothing like the large number of geographically dispersed exchanges over a few hours -- especially on a net that runs multiple rounds -- to quickly teach about propagation changes over the course of the day.

KC0OFZ

12-31-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 31 2007,16:22)]You know, it doesn't really matter if someone not involved thinks what you're doing is a waste of time or not. It's your time to waste as you see fit and there's nothing in the regs that says that the content of a transmission must be "important."

As far as learning goes, there's nothing like the large number of geographically dispersed exchanges over a few hours -- especially on a net that runs multiple rounds -- to quickly teach about propagation changes over the course of the day.
Exactly! Important is a very relative term that varies person to person.

KD4LEI

12-31-2007, 11:51 PM

I have done a quick parouse of the thread and maybe I didn't see it. #What net are you talking about? #Or is it just a general post covering all of the respective nets that do this (ie 3905 CC Net, HHH net, etc...) ?

I don't have a problem with it and like em. Each operator has their own preferences for what they choose to do on HF.

However, the award I get for HHH or 3905 is exclusive and I believe you cannot get credit for one by operating via the other net. More or less you have to start over from my understanding.

n5ack

12-31-2007, 11:54 PM

k4avl

01-01-2008, 12:14 AM

I had probably worked about 40 states the hard way before I ever started getting into these nets. I found that it's a good bunch of folks, and that a lot of them were interested in working me for their benefit as well. It's also enjoyable to see how the propagation is doing on any given night, as to how stations sound from different states, for example on 20 meters most of the time, stations farther away seem to do a better job. As mentioned, they are legit, you do need to have a good 2 way contact to have it called a good QSO.
More fun than ones that just mention the weather, talk about their guns, or revolve around a few personalities that never seem to shut up.
As a result of these good folks, I've decided to get on one of these nets at least once a week, and hopefully try to build up my collection so as to have 4 cards from each state, as I have a loose leaf book with plastic QSL pages and one page per state, each of which can hold 4 cards. This will hold me for a while until the sunspots rev up and can work a lot more DX.

N4AUD

01-01-2008, 12:15 AM

One of the most important lessons my father ever taught me was to try to see things from the other guy's side. If more people learned to do this, this thread wouldn't be so long.

KC2PBJ

01-01-2008, 12:32 AM

I prefer the pride of accomplishment in finding and contacting a DX station myself and getting to make a new friend that I can have many QSO's with afterwards. #Those groups that prefer the collective approach and quicky contacts is fine for them and it bothers me not. #There is room for every approach to the hobby. #I don't own any frequency and use the vfo knob for its intended purpose (whether cw of ssb) and rarely have to make the dreaded CQ call. #If i'm asked nicely to QSY for a net or even be invited to participate, I'll gladly cooperate once my QSO is done. #Haughty, curmudgeon-like demands for same, based on turf defensiveness, is a different story and I'll wait until the Linears start seriously firing up against my barefoot contessa operation and driving me out by brute force. There is usually someone out there who wants a real QSO (even a fair amount of DX) beyond exchanging inflated signal reports. #I find that the QSL's are often coming in rather nicely and I have no need to earn a DXCC in any set time. The cards are reminders of good contacts and friends made and not an end unto themselves. #While this may be a minority approach, this retread doesn't care who vehemently disagrees with my on-the-air style. #Primum Nonocerce (First - do no harm).

kb2ixt

01-01-2008, 02:03 AM

WICK...You have a myopic view of the definition and purpose(s) of various nets. #Your bias is clouding your ability to view the issue objectively.

Since you asked for some things that nets are useful for, and since you asked for a list,

1) Effective frequency management; 15-25 people conducting a group activity on one frequency frees up the rest of the band for one on one contacts. #If I'm talking on the Spirit Net on 75 meters, or the Marconi net, or MIDCARS, etc., I'm in contact with others jointly pursuing our common interests. In fact, participating in a net may FOSTER the one on one contacts you talk about.

2) Ragchew nets, like the Marconi net, assist in decliquifying a band, by giving people access to people that they wouldn't normally meet. They serve as ice breakers and greatly increase the abiltity to NET work and make friends and to learn about the various topics being discussed. In other words, a social lubricant.

3) You can over the course of an evening, very effectively determine how well your station is working on a given band and then make changes and check in again and see the results faster.

4) Nets serve as a clearinghouse for NEWS, INFORMATION and ENTERTAINMENT. Ham radio operators are social creatures by nature, and gravitate to groups that have value.

5) Nets give us a window on people's opinions of topics of interest to Amateur radio operators. When breaking events occur, you can check out any number of nets and find out what people are really thinking.

6) Nets and groups are limited only by own's imagination, there is a purpose and reason for their structure; for example, the Rotten Apples net on 40 meters is a far flung group of ex New Yorkers, while there are nets for Classic radio buffs, Current events and Hot Button Political topics; the Liberty Net, and so on. If you took the time to examine them in depth, you'd see their various purposes.
They aren't and weren't arbitrarily set up to limit your enjoyment of the radio.

7) Nets foster goodwill amoung Amateurs. Some people are more comfortable chatting with supportive friends than approaching people who display an attitude. One on one contacts can be a spin of the roulette wheel in terms of what kind of a reception a person will get.

Happy New Year to all

I'll see you on the Marconi Net
Plus or Minus 3.872 most nights at 9pm

The art of the contact and the joy of communication

n0iu

01-01-2008, 04:23 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,10:28)]Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Dec. 31 2007,11:08)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,11:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,12:10)]It's stupid.
So in other words, if you don't do amateur radio the way Ryan and Steve do amateur radio, it is lame and stupid!

How on earth have I managed to enjoy amateur radio all these years without their sage words of wisdom?

Happy New Year!
Scott NØIU
спасибо за заботу

<best I could do>

WB2WIK/6
Steve,

Это не проблема! Это - мое удовольствие.

Спасибо.

С новым годом!

Scott NØIU

P.S. The "best I could do" line probably doesn't show up in the post because it is between "<" and ">" and the system probably thinks it is some sort of HTML code.

w2vw

01-01-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote[/b] (kb2ixt @ Dec. 31 2007,19:03)]7) Nets foster goodwill amoung Amateurs. Some people are more comfortable chatting with supportive friends than approaching people who display an attitude. One on one contacts can be a spin of the roulette wheel in terms of what kind of a reception a person will get.

Happy New Year to all

I'll see you on the Marconi Net
Plus or Minus 3.872 most nights at 9pm

The art of the contact and the joy of communication
Here is just one of many recent examples of KB2IXT fostering goodwill from the super duper secret site:

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Marconi-Net group:

What is your worst pet peeve about Amateur radio ?

Problem frequencies where the FCC fails to reign in the bad actors causing
chaos and hate and discontent.

Certain people with a false sense of entitlement, telling others where to
operate, e.g. the AM mafia.

People who make excuses for jammers, and who try to minimize the harm the jammers cause by not taking the issue seriously.

Contest maniacs who rove the band and make most weekends a mess.

Endless on air testing hear for long periods of time, when most if not all testing could be done into a dummy load.

People who check into a ragchew and act like killjoys, with
comments like "Well, I have nothing to add, so I'll Standby"

Why would they check into the net in the first place, if they didn't want to honestly participate in what was going on ?

People who stir up controversy by going to nearby frequencies and riling up one group of Amateurs against another group.

Antisocial , loser jammers, who don't get the hint that they'll never be accepted by anyone with their actions.

People who are "radio brokers" , in business selling amateur radio gear on a regular basis, pretending to be something they are not, individuals selling their own stuff.

People who do deliberate things to pre empt the Marconi Net, or any other net or group, for that matter.

END super secret goodwill poll. This is only the tip of the iceberg. Hare Goebbels would be proud.

Please seek professional help Fred.

P.S. Sorry Fred but you couldn't carry WIK's jock strap.

KD6NIG

01-01-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:22)]Just for giggles I listened to the 7178 net yesterday late afternoon/early evening here in CA, for about 15 mins.

On multiple occasions (at least 3-4 times, maybe more), the stations "making a contact" didn't even come close to making a contact.

One asked net control, "Um, I got him just fine but missed his callsign. What was his call?"

And the net control gladly complied by calling the other station, using his callsign!

That ain't a contact.

I hear more "two by two, two by two" reports there than anywhere else on the band. This means whoever's giving that report isn't hearing squat from the other station. It's all smoke and mirrors.

More power to them if they're "having fun" doing this, but they'd have more fun if they erect real antennas and make their own contacts. 99% of the time, I hear everybody on the "net," no matter where they are, and I fall over laughing about the "reports."

Okay, so much for my fun. I won't listen anymore, I've heard enough.

BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6
I guess at least that by giving out "22" (rifle shot! BANG!) they are more honest than contesters dropping the old "599, 599, could you repeat your callsign?"

But not by much http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I remember the last time I listened on a contest weekend there would be people asking for a callsign 10 times, then giving the 599. Hilarity ensues!

WA9SVD

01-01-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote[/b] (n5ack @ Dec. 31 2007,16:54)]Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Dec. 30 2007,17:22)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 30 2007,16:32)]Seriously, how lame is that?

Isn't it more fun to search and find DX?

Heck, even using the cluster is more exciting than waiting in line for a net!

Nets are useful for a lot of things, but to chase awards, isn't that kinda defeating the point of the award?
Some people claim they don't have enough operating time to be able to adjust a manual tuner, so how can you expect them to have the time to find DX on their own? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

<SARCASM OFF?>

What's even worse is when those "nets" have stations relying on relays to complete a "hello, goodbye" type QSO, yet some operators claim it's a valid contact.

Sort of "KG#ABC, did you get N#XYZ's signal report ? He said you were 5x7."

"NO, I didn't hear him. Tell him He's 5x9 and thank him for the QSO, and I really need his QSL card..."
Guess it's the "NEW, improved Amateur Radio."

Little wonder some guys are bailing out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Now that is funny !!!
It might be funny if it weren't happening, frequently. And I doubt any of the "award" sponsors would accept contacts made through a relay station if they knew about it.

Personally, I would refuse to QSL a "pseudo-contact" if I didn't hear the other station well enough to get their call and signal report, or if they had to use a relay to hear and verify my call and signal report. Or I'd specify on a QSL card a "relayed" contact via whatever station acted as relay.
But then again, I don't participate in such nets, preferring in working what little DX I can the "old fashioned" way.

WB2WIK

01-01-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Dec. 31 2007,21:23)]Это не проблема! Это - мое удовольствие.

Спасибо.

С новым годом!

Scott NØIU

P.S. The "best I could do" line probably doesn't show up in the post because it is between "<" and ">" and the system probably thinks it is some sort of HTML code.
You're right, I forgot you can't use those marks here.

С новым годом Вас и вашу семью.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

WB2WIK

01-01-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Jan. 01 2008,10:15)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 31 2007,15:22)]Just for giggles I listened to the 7178 net yesterday late afternoon/early evening here in CA, for about 15 mins.

On multiple occasions (at least 3-4 times, maybe more), the stations "making a contact" didn't even come close to making a contact.

One asked net control, "Um, I got him just fine but missed his callsign. #What was his call?"

And the net control gladly complied by calling the other station, using his callsign!

That ain't a contact.

I hear more "two by two, two by two" reports there than anywhere else on the band. #This means whoever's giving that report isn't hearing squat from the other station. #It's all smoke and mirrors.

More power to them if they're "having fun" doing this, but they'd have more fun if they erect real antennas and make their own contacts. #99% of the time, I hear everybody on the "net," no matter where they are, and I fall over laughing about the "reports."

Okay, so much for my fun. #I won't listen anymore, I've heard enough.

BTW the comment about wasting spectrum was perfectly valid. #It doesn't matter how many people are in the net; they could all be on the same frequency having a round-table QSO instead, which is a better use of spectrum because there wouldn't be any net control (one less station) or multiple complainants to gripe about other stations being 5 kHz away from the net and QRMing them.

WB2WIK/6
I guess at least that by giving out "22" (rifle shot! BANG!) they are more honest than contesters dropping the old "599, 599, could you repeat your callsign?"

But not by much http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I remember the last time I listened on a contest weekend there would be people asking for a callsign 10 times, then giving the 599. #Hilarity ensues!
I see contests in a very different light, though.

Contests quickly and efficiently provide one with a great barometer of his station and operating effectiveness, and many thousands of operators have greatly improved their skills and their stations by trying contests and trying to do better in each successive event.

Yes, contesters can occupy the entire "CW" end or "phone" end of a band at times, and it's unfortunate that creates a lot of interference; but, there are many escapes from that for non-contesters, including the WARC bands. And the "big" contests only occupy six or eight weekends each year, leaving 350 days a year devoid of the heavy duty contest activity.

Nets, on the other hand, don't do much to improve anything I can think of, and many occupy substantial bandwidth every single night of the year (or sometimes, days).

I can see the argument that an established net is a "meeting place" for people with common interests to find eachother and that makes perfect sense. In fact, those type nets seem pretty effective in performing that task. But there are so many nets I have heard where people aren't meeting to discuss a subject in which they share a common interest, at all. They just meet to kill time, and the most ridiculous ones include a net control doing a "roll call" of every single station who ever previously participated in the net -- the roll call alone can take 10-15 minutes of what is essentially broadcasting for no apparent purpose.

And at the end of the roll call, net participants decide they really have nothing to say, but each take a turn to confirm that. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Can you imagine what it would be like if big-gun contesters, who have the strongest signals on the bands because they're best equipped to do so, each had a "roll call" of all previously worked contesters, to see who's around? Now, that would be exciting. Every die-hard net operator anywhere would think it's dispicable.

But, it would be perfectly legal.

WB2WIK/6

N8UZE

01-01-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote[/b] (wf5tx @ Dec. 31 2007,11:55)]Back in 1991 I stumbled across a DX net on 20 meters. I was not a really a DXer but I checked in anyway. It was a first for me. I might add that I had a 2x1 call at the time. No sooner than I was recognized by the Net Control Station an unidentified station chimed in with "An extra class working a list... shame on you!" Well, that did it for me. With head hung low, I worked the DX station, but I never tried DX nets again. If the truth be known, the unidentified station was probably on the list somewhere himself.

WF5TX
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
Get back to me when you have a valid point.

W5HTW

01-02-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote[/b] (N5KRC @ Dec. 30 2007,16:44)]You can either work hard and eat steak for dinner, or stand in line and eat government cheese. Either way your being fed, but which one would you prefer? :D
Can I get some whine with that?

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Jan. 01 2008,18:03)]Quote[/b] (N5KRC @ Dec. 30 2007,16:44)]You can either work hard and eat steak for dinner, or stand in line and eat government cheese. #Either way your being fed, but which one would you prefer? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Can I get some whine with that?
Gutteral or alternator?

w3dub

01-02-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,19:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
x2.

I can't believe some of the things being said in this thread. Some people really need to get themselves off the high horse they ride through QRZ and realize not everybody wants to either a)think or b)do what they do in ham radio.

I have not seen a valid point yet on how the 3905cc is a bad thing, or "cheats," as its being inferred here.

AGAIN, stations have the option to be no relay. Check your award policies.. there is NOTHING prohibiting the relaying of callsigns.

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:15 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,17:57)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
Get back to me when you have a valid point.
You have NO more right to tell anyone what they can enjoy one the air than the next person. Do you understand that? One word, yes or no.

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,17:57)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
Get back to me when you have a valid point.
BTW the statement is no less valid than you are...and we still wait for you answer. Who gives you the authority to tell others they are NOT to participate in a net? Do you have an answer?

W5HTW

01-02-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Dec. 30 2007,21:11)]It could be worse. People could be emailing each other and agreeing to send each other QSL cards.
Ah, you mean IRLP and Echolink?

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:22 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:18)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,17:57)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
Get back to me when you have a valid point.
BTW the statement is no less valid than you are...and we still wait for you answer. #Who gives you the authority to tell others they are NOT to participate in a net? #Do you have an answer?
I'm a big fan of C.S.I.

"Can't Stand Idiots."

So, it will be difficult for me to respond here without violating company policy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

You're out there, in a place I hope to never travel.

WB2WIK/6

n4cd

01-02-2008, 01:36 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 30 2007,17:10)]There's some sort of net on 7.178 MHz (40m) every afternoon, it goes on for hours. #It seems to serve no purpose other than guys working each other, who for some reason can't seem to work each other without the net. #(Which of course makes no sense whatever.)

Anyway, this is right at the lower edge of the General phone band and operating below 7.178 MHz, for a General ticketholder, is likely unlawful because his sidebands would fall below 7.175. #I'm sure that's why the net's right where it is.

So, I'll go operate on 7.181 or so, 3 kHz above the net, and if I call one CQ there for eight seconds, four people from the net will come up to yell at me that I'm interfering with the net. #They won't stop doing that until I go up to above 7.184. #
The County Hunters Net is on 7178 most days. It was on 7175 until the Shuttle launch went up..then that took 2 weeks and for some reason, the Goddard Space center tied up that frequency rebroadcasting all the shuttle transmissions. Talk about useless. Anyone with internet or some cable TV systems can listen to it...no need to tie up 7175 for half the country (well most of the country).

The general band, my friends is 7150 and up, not 7175.

And you are perfectly legal operating on 14.347 USB, and on 15.150.1 USB. YOu still have 'lower sidebands' down 40-50 db, but that is state of the art and you aren't out of the band.

Such silly logic. If we take that logic, your 5th order IM products are maybe down 30dB. So you better not operate within 8 Khz of the band. But now we take 7th order and 9th order iM products, and now you better be 20 KHz inside the band edge. Stupidity at work.

The FCC could care less if you are IN the band with your principle sideband, and carrier. Period.

And as for nets, think about it. Would you rather have 100-150 county huntes using one frequency, or 20 county hunter mobiles calling CQ on 20 separate frequencies up and down the band all day long as they go through various counties?

And yes, if you are 60 over on the freq 3 Khz down, and the rest of the band is devoid of activity, folks might ask you to move up. As you noted, you are ONLY doing it to annoy other stations. Think about it. everyone else thing about it. In a mostly empty band during the week, WB2WIK/6 thinks it is 'fun' to call CQ right next to the only occupied frequency in the band, 'because he can'. Amazing, isn't it!.......

WHere is the respect for other operators? Where is the ham radio tradition?

In an empty band, WB2WIK/6 gets annoyed that 100 county hunters are having fun on 7178, and to cause maximum disruption there, calls CQ very close by to cause problems listening to low power mobiles.

Maybe he should think LONG AND HARD about his actions. No?

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:36 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:22)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:18)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,17:57)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Jan. 01 2008,16:26)]
Never let someone shame you for legally enjoying the hobby in your own way.
WIK
Please note this comment. #
I wait for more of your comments on how "you" feel AR is not being conducted in the manner "you" see fit. #This of couse means the elimination of all things "you" deem not worthy of HF spectrum. #Tell us, who died and made "you" the almighty authority on what is a valuable use of spectrum? #Further more who gives "you" the authority to tell others they can not enjoy a net?
Get back to me when you have a valid point.
BTW the statement is no less valid than you are...and we still wait for you answer. #Who gives you the authority to tell others they are NOT to participate in a net? #Do you have an answer?
I'm a big fan of C.S.I.

"Can't Stand Idiots."

So, it will be difficult for me to respond here without violating company policy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

You're out there, in a place I hope to never travel.

WB2WIK/6
Still no answer...not a suprise. #Oh well, at least some can admit that a person can do whatever they enjoy (with in legal limits) on the air. #Whether that be a net, Dxing, or a contest just have fun. You can not admit it so what ever what ever that is your choice. # #
As for the name calling, all me an idiot all you want. #If that somehow makes you feel like a bigger person so be it. #It is strange that some have to stoop to personal insults to feel good about themselves. # You seem have this love for insulting anyone who see things a little different or are more accepting of different ideas and what is fun on the air. #Once again what ever, what ever.
Take care...

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:42 AM

OFZ, I have one hour before I have to leave to attend a dinner.

If you can get on the air, RIGHT NOW, pick a frequency on 40 meters and let's discuss this.

I'm hearing (on 40) the entire world right now, so this should be easy.

WB2WIK/6

n4cd

01-02-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote[/b] (wg7x @ Dec. 31 2007,00:31)]It seems that there is a net up there that really believes that a good "contact" is when one mobile station cannot hear another mobile station without the assistance of at least two others in between.

The first time I heard this, I was totally flabbergasted. I just had to listen to confirm, that yes, I had heard two stations, who obviously could not hear one another, make a "roger contact" via not one but two relay stations!

The height of stoopididty to be sure, but it goes on, day after day, on the same 20 meter frequency. Don't believe me?
gary WG7X apparently can't figure out how a double relay works.

Very simply.

Let us say we have a net control station in SC, and one in CA on the 20M county hunter net.

Let us say a mobile station is running a county in North Carolina. The net control station in SC cannot copy the mobile (too close for skip).

The net control station in CA is helping the mobile with relays from stations not copying the mobile station well, and needing assistance. That is a 'normal relay'.

However, let us say there is a station in OR that is has been trying to work the mobile, but due to noise, or due to 3 or four calling at the same time at weak signal levels, the mobile cannot get the callsigns.

Now, we get into the concept of double relays. Obviously, the station in CA is not hearing the station in OR. So he asks the net control station in SC to look for 'double relays'. He looks from his end for relays. He hears the station in OR requesting a relay.

He then tells the net control station in CA that "WG7X" is coming on a double. The net control station in CA tells the mobile that WG7X is coming on a double, and the net control in SC tells WG7X to go ahead.

Not very complicated when you think about it.

Many times when you are out mobile, and you have some noise (power lines) or band QRM from other stations like WB2WIK calling CQ at 40 over right next to the net frequency in a empty band just for the heck of it, beacuse he can, and he doesn't seem to like nets, you can't copy all of the weaker stations - or sometimes they just clobber each other.

SO the relays help, and in the case of other stations not located within 'hearing distance' of the main net control, another can help with 'double relays'. Easy once you think about it.

If you had 3 or 4 net control stations, like some nets, you wouldn't need to do that, but it takes just as long.

wz9o

01-02-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote[/b] (n4cd @ Jan. 01 2008,18:36)]The general band, my friends is 7150 and up, not 7175.
Better check those band plans again...acourding to the ARRL site it's 7.175 - 7.300 for the Generals.

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:48 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:42)]OFZ, I have one hour before I have to leave to attend a dinner.

If you can get on the air, RIGHT NOW, pick a frequency on 40 meters and let's discuss this.

I'm hearing (on 40) the entire world right now, so this should be easy.

WB2WIK/6
I have nothing further to discuss with this. It has gone far enough, my points have been stated. I see no need for personal insults nor threats here or anywhere else over what a person enjoys on the air. I feel that people have the right to enjoy a net on the air, you appear not to to feel that way. End of discussion.
Once again take care....

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:48)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:42)]OFZ, I have one hour before I have to leave to attend a dinner.

If you can get on the air, RIGHT NOW, pick a frequency on 40 meters and let's discuss this.

I'm hearing (on 40) the entire world right now, so this should be easy.

WB2WIK/6
I have nothing further to discuss with this. #It has gone far enough, my points have been stated. # I see no need for personal insults nor threats here or anywhere else over what #a person enjoys on the air. # I feel that people have the right to enjoy a net on the air, you appear not to to feel that way. #End of discussion.
Once again take care....
Chicken?

Don't want to get on the air, invite breakers, and see what others say?

Okay, I get it.

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote[/b] (n4cd @ Jan. 01 2008,18:45)]Quote[/b] (wg7x @ Dec. 31 2007,00:31)]It seems that there is a net up there that really believes that a good "contact" is when one mobile station cannot hear another mobile station without the assistance of at least two others in between.

The first time I heard this, I was totally flabbergasted. I just had to listen to confirm, that yes, I had heard two stations, who obviously could not hear one another, make a "roger contact" via not one but two relay stations!

The height of stoopididty to be sure, but it goes on, day after day, on the same 20 meter frequency. Don't believe me?
gary WG7X apparently can't figure out how a double relay works.

Very simply.

Let us say we have a net control station in SC, and one in CA on the 20M county hunter net.

Let us say a mobile station is running a county in North Carolina. #The net control station in SC cannot copy the mobile (too close for skip).

The net control station in CA is helping the mobile with relays from stations not copying the mobile station well, and needing assistance. #That is a 'normal relay'.

However, let us say there is a station in OR that is has been trying to work the mobile, but due to noise, or due to 3 or four calling at the same time at weak signal levels, the mobile cannot get the callsigns. #

Now, we get into the concept of double relays. #Obviously, the station in CA is not hearing the station in OR. #So he asks the net control station in SC to look for 'double relays'. #He looks from his end for relays. #He hears the station in OR requesting a relay. #

He then tells the net control station in CA that "WG7X" is coming on a double. #The net control station in CA tells the mobile that WG7X is coming on a double, and the net control in SC tells WG7X to go ahead. #

Not very complicated when you think about it.

Many times when you are out mobile, and you have some noise (power lines) or band QRM from other stations like WB2WIK calling CQ at 40 over right next to the net frequency in a empty band just for the heck of it, beacuse he can, and he doesn't seem to like nets, #you can't copy all of the weaker stations - or sometimes they just clobber each other. #

SO the relays help, and in the case of other stations not located within 'hearing distance' of the main net control, another can help with 'double relays'. #Easy once you think about it. #

If you had 3 or 4 net control stations, like some nets, you wouldn't need to do that, but it takes just as long.
Type that up in triplicate and file it for me would you please Radar?
What a mouthfull to say but a good description.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KC0OFZ

01-02-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:49)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:48)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:42)]OFZ, I have one hour before I have to leave to attend a dinner.

If you can get on the air, RIGHT NOW, pick a frequency on 40 meters and let's discuss this.

I'm hearing (on 40) the entire world right now, so this should be easy.

WB2WIK/6
I have nothing further to discuss with this. #It has gone far enough, my points have been stated. # I see no need for personal insults nor threats here or anywhere else over what #a person enjoys on the air. # I feel that people have the right to enjoy a net on the air, you appear not to to feel that way. #End of discussion.
Once again take care....
Chicken?

Don't want to get on the air, invite breakers, and see what others say?

Okay, I get it.
Still at it with the insults.....what ever.

N8UZE

01-02-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote[/b] (n4cd @ Jan. 01 2008,20:36)]The general band, my friends is 7150 and up, not 7175.
You are mistaken. The lower limit for Generals on 40m is 7.175 and to insure that their entire signal is above that point in LSB it is wise to go no lower than 7.178.

Band REGULATIONS (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/Hambands_color.pdf)

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ Jan. 01 2008,18:46)]Quote[/b] (n4cd @ Jan. 01 2008,18:36)]The general band, my friends is 7150 and up, not 7175.
Better check those band plans again...acourding to the ARRL site it's 7.175 - 7.300 for the Generals.
You're right, it's 7175.

I can go down to 7125 personally, but like to operate above 7175 when I can because that's where most of the "newbies" are, and it's a great chance for them to ask questions, make comments, and roar.

No sweat with that.

Can't wait 'til DX ops can come up to 7200...it's already happening a little bit, but will be much better starting April 2009 (I hope)!

WB2WIK/6

WB2WIK

01-02-2008, 01:54 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:52)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:49)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2008,18:48)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Jan. 01 2008,18:42)]OFZ, I have one hour before I have to leave to attend a dinner.

If you can get on the air, RIGHT NOW, pick a frequency on 40 meters and let's discuss this.

I'm hearing (on 40) the entire world right now, so this should be easy.

WB2WIK/6
I have nothing further to discuss with this. #It has gone far enough, my points have been stated. # I see no need for personal insults nor threats here or anywhere else over what #a person enjoys on the air. # I feel that people have the right to enjoy a net on the air, you appear not to to feel that way. #End of discussion.
Once again take care....
Chicken?

Don't want to get on the air, invite breakers, and see what others say?

Okay, I get it.
Still at it with the insults.....what ever.
I'm now convinced you're not only unworthy of further discussion, but can't even produce a signal on HF.

I have no idea why you were even involved in this discussion.

I'm through.

WB2WIK/6