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KG4JYD
11-30-2007, 02:47 AM
Ron Paul Is Wrong, Proves Washington Post

Appearing a few weeks ago on the Tonight Show, libertarian Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul told host Jay Leno that his plan to abolish the hated federal income tax would still leave government funding at year 2000 levels.

Wrong! False! cried the ever-vigilant Washington Post.

After careful study, the Post declared that, in reality, if Ron Paul ended the personal income tax and replaced it with nothing, federal revenues would fall to... 1995 levels.

Oh, no! Not that! How could America get by with only the tiny, minuscule federal government of the Clinton years? Please don't throw us in that briar patch!

Actually, we don't recall many people in 1995 saying the federal government wasn't big enough. In fact, we remember those radical anti-government activists Bill Clinton and Al Gore attacking the federal government as being bloated, and declaring "the era of Big Government is over." (Alas, it turns out they were a tad over-optimistic.)

So, yeah, we could live with abolishing the income tax even if Dr. Paul's estimates are off by a few years. The Republic would survive.

But are Paul's figures really off, even by the Post's absurdly nit-picking standard? The Cato Institute's Daniel J. Mitchell checked it out:

"The Post's criticism is akin to condemning a book because the typesetting as not centered on a few pages. The real issue is whether America would be a stronger and more prosperous nation if government was reduced to the levels envisioned by the Founding Fathers. ... The Post also fixates on whether the Paul campaign has identified $1.1 trillion of savings to match the forgone revenue from eliminating the income tax.

"In attempting to figure out where the $1.1 trillion in *annual* savings is going to come from in a Paul administration, I talked yesterday afternoon to the candidate's policy director, Joseph Becker. He pointed out that Paul has promised to bring troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, eliminate foreign aid, eliminate agriculture subsidies, and get rid of the U.S. Education Department...

"The candidate almost certainly would favor the elimination (or transfer to the states) of the Departments of Agriculture, Energy, Education, Housing and Urban Development, Transportation, Labor, Commerce, and Health and Human Services...


"Indeed, because he also would gradually turn entitlement programs into systems based on personal accounts (and shift welfare components back to the state and local levels), the long-term savings would significantly exceed the amount of money collected by the personal income tax."

(Source: Cato Institute blog:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007....ax-plan (http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/11/09/defending-ron-pauls-tax-plan/) )

N3ATS
12-01-2007, 08:55 PM
Control of these departments by the States is the best idea, IMO.

1. They would more easily accessible, and it would be much easier to hold accountable.

2. The could be overseen by the State legislature or governor which would improve the electorate's chances of effecting change in those departments.

3. Hopefully waste would be reduced because of 1 & 2.

4. Local control means a better view of what's actually going on locally. You would have a department in Wyoming for example, overseeing things in Wyoming rather than someone in D.C. doing it.

5. State DOE for example, would no longer be duplicated by a federal DOE. There's the savings to the taxpayer.

kc2orw
12-01-2007, 09:30 PM
Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Dec. 01 2007,16:55)]Control of these departments by the States is the best idea, IMO.

1. They would more easily accessible, and it would be much easier to hold accountable.

2. The could be overseen by the State legislature or governor which would improve the electorate's chances of effecting change in those departments.

3. Hopefully waste would be reduced because of 1 & 2.

4. Local control means a better view of what's actually going on locally. You would have a department in Wyoming for example, overseeing things in Wyoming rather than someone in D.C. doing it.

5. State DOE for example, would no longer be duplicated by a federal DOE. There's the savings to the taxpayer.
That is so true it's scary...

Say no to more Fed control!, bloat...

KC4RAN
12-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Nov. 30 2007,14:55)]Control of these departments by the States is the best idea, IMO.

1. #They would more easily accessible, and it would be much easier to hold accountable. #

2. #The could be overseen by the State legislature or governor which would improve the electorate's chances of effecting change in those departments.

3. #Hopefully waste would be reduced because of 1 & 2.

4. #Local control means a better view of what's actually going on locally. #You would have a department in Wyoming for example, overseeing things in Wyoming rather than someone in D.C. doing it.

5. #State DOE for example, would no longer be duplicated by a federal DOE. #There's the savings to the taxpayer.
And most importantly, number 6:

It would attempt to return the Federal government more to it's role as set out explicitly in both the Constitution and Amendment 10.

KG4JYD
12-03-2007, 03:23 AM
Exactly - the Constitution says the federal government can only do what is in the Constitution. Nothing more.

al2i
12-03-2007, 03:26 AM
Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Dec. 02 2007,19:23)]Exactly - the Constitution says the federal government can only do what is in the Constitution. Nothing more.
Well, that has been interpreted to mean nearly anything in the fullness of time.

KG4JYD
12-14-2007, 09:29 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ Dec. 02 2007,20:26)]Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Dec. 02 2007,19:23)]Exactly - the Constitution says the federal government can only do what is in the Constitution. Nothing more.
Well, that has been interpreted to mean nearly anything in the fullness of time.
That's because our courts, like our legislatures, have no integrity.

kg6amw
12-14-2007, 09:32 PM
You mean Ron Paul, the mysterious ruler of planet Beta III, the party of Landru.

N2RJ
12-14-2007, 09:37 PM
Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Dec. 01 2007,15:55)]Control of these departments by the States is the best idea, IMO.

1. They would more easily accessible, and it would be much easier to hold accountable.

2. The could be overseen by the State legislature or governor which would improve the electorate's chances of effecting change in those departments.

3. Hopefully waste would be reduced because of 1 & 2.

4. Local control means a better view of what's actually going on locally. You would have a department in Wyoming for example, overseeing things in Wyoming rather than someone in D.C. doing it.

5. State DOE for example, would no longer be duplicated by a federal DOE. There's the savings to the taxpayer.
Dude, the last thing I want is NJ deciding how much more tax I should pay.

w3dub
12-14-2007, 10:07 PM
I agree Ryan. Abolishing the federal tax structure is not the answer. A I am open to a simpler tax structure however.

w5klb
12-14-2007, 10:16 PM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 14 2007,14:37)]Dude, the last thing I want is NJ deciding how much more tax I should pay.
Heh...

Looks as if your Governor has already decided for you. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

WB2WIK
12-14-2007, 10:29 PM
Could save the $1.1 Trillion by just eliminating the superfluous jobs in the Federal Civilian Workforce...

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/factbook/index.asp

Then we'd have some unemployed people, but they could all get jobs in the private sector doing whatever they were doing before, but under pressure of competition they might do it more cost-effectively. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Now, if we eliminated Social Security benefits for those who are currently collecting but have never contributed even a single penny into the system, SSA would have such a surplus they wouldn't know what to do with it.

A lot of those recipients are non-Americans, and if they stopped collecting, they might have to return home to wherever they're from, relieving some congestion.

I have a lot of good ideas.

Vote for me, I'll set you free.

WB2WIK/6

N3ATS
12-15-2007, 02:30 AM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Dec. 14 2007,16:37)]Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Dec. 01 2007,15:55)]Control of these departments by the States is the best idea, IMO.

1. They would more easily accessible, and it would be much easier to hold accountable.

2. The could be overseen by the State legislature or governor which would improve the electorate's chances of effecting change in those departments.

3. Hopefully waste would be reduced because of 1 & 2.

4. Local control means a better view of what's actually going on locally. You would have a department in Wyoming for example, overseeing things in Wyoming rather than someone in D.C. doing it.

5. State DOE for example, would no longer be duplicated by a federal DOE. There's the savings to the taxpayer.
Dude, the last thing I want is NJ deciding how much more tax I should pay.
Why would you pay more, Ryan? You are ALREADY paying for all of these things at the State level. Why duplicate services at the Federal level and pay even more?

KG4JYD
12-15-2007, 05:40 AM
Quote[/b] (kg6amw @ Dec. 14 2007,14:32)]You mean Ron Paul, the mysterious ruler of planet Beta III, the party of Landru.
Why do you keep saying that?

What does it mean?

N3RQ
12-15-2007, 06:28 AM
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 13 2007,16:29)]Now, if we eliminated Social Security benefits for those who are currently collecting but have never contributed even a single penny into the system, SSA would have such a surplus they wouldn't know what to do with it.
You need to do your homework. These people are not drawing Title II OASDI benefits (i.e., FICA-funded benefits). They are drawing Title XVI SSI benefits. SSI is funded from general revenues (i.e., SSI is a federal-level welfare program). One must meet the forty-quarter requirement to draw Title II benefits.

KG4JYD
12-16-2007, 07:33 PM
Quote[/b] (N3RQ @ Dec. 14 2007,23:28)]One must meet the forty-quarter requirement to draw Title II benefits.
What is forty-quarter?

W3MIV
12-16-2007, 07:35 PM
Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Dec. 16 2007,15:33)]Quote[/b] (N3RQ @ Dec. 14 2007,23:28)]One must meet the forty-quarter requirement to draw Title II benefits.
What is forty-quarter?
Ten bucks.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KG4JYD
12-17-2007, 02:44 AM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Dec. 16 2007,12:35)]Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Dec. 16 2007,15:33)]Quote[/b] (N3RQ @ Dec. 14 2007,23:28)]One must meet the forty-quarter requirement to draw Title II benefits.
What is forty-quarter?
Ten bucks.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Be more descriptive. I'm 25 and will hopefully never have to recieve SS.