View Full Version : NEW NETGEAR WIRELESS ROUTER
w4bgn
11-06-2007, 07:05 PM
I just bought a Netgear wireless router. Never thought anymore about it, but when I went in the shack, oh man, was it tearing up my 2 meter radios...Not to mention HF.
So, now when I want to talk on the radios, I have to unplug the router from the wall, a little bit of trouble, but it works.
By the way, the router is in a different room of the house.
Anyone else experienced this???
KC5CSG
11-06-2007, 07:07 PM
I have only used Linksys routers but I have seen other people discussing interference problems with Netgear. Wonder what they're doing because they're all on the same frequencies.
Jerry
It's typically the power supply radiating. Some of those use very dirty switchers.
I had a LinkSys hub that used a 3.3V switcher. It caused all sorts of issues on 80m and 40m. Changed it to a Netgear hub that used a standard 12vdc transformer; no issues.
Thats OK I wouldn't mind shutting down a wireless router. My problem is that my shack pc has taken to putting out a carrier various spots all over 20 meters. Haven't made any changes to it and haven't had too much time to check it out. It seems to be happening after a certain point during boot-up, guess I will have to see what is starting when the QRM begins.
w4bgn
11-06-2007, 07:20 PM
After just doing some tests, when I unplug the network cable from the router OR cable modem, the noise stops.
I have went into the setting menu on the router and turned off the "radio"(wireless transmit), but the noise is still there unless I...
Unplug the power from the router
unplug the network cable from either the router OR the modem
Seems as though when the router is getting a connection to the cable modem, it starts again.
I think it's time to pay a visit back to Best Buy and return the router. If I want to use the computer in the shack, I guess I will buy a ethernet switch and some cat 5 and just plug it in.
After finding this out, glad my neighbors(I'm in a duplex) don't have wireless.
Quote[/b] (w4bgn @ Nov. 06 2007,15:20)]After finding this out, glad my neighbors(I'm in a duplex) don't have wireless.
Wireless isn't the issue. I've got a wireless router and I don't have any problems.
N4AUD
11-06-2007, 07:32 PM
I've got a Netgear wireless router stored away because it was so noisy. I only needed network capability for my son's computer so I went to a cable network and don't have the interference problem anymore. Netgear routers seem to cause more interference problems overall than others for some reason.
Just a suggestion and no I do not design routers for a living. When a device is tested for FCC Part 15 RFI compliance they are tested with the cable supplied with the unit or a 1 meter long cable if no cable is supplied. It is to the manufactures advantage to provide a short cable (ie... CAT5) because the shorter the hookup cable the more likely the device passing the RFI test. Some of these short cables may also be shielded to insure they are a lousy antenna.
Hooking up a different cable other than the one supplied by the manufacture may cause your FCC Part 15 computer device to no longer meet FCC emissions standards.
I wonder if something like this is causing a problem I started to have a couple weeks ago (Oct 24th to be exact)...
Something "came on" abruptly that is putting out an extremely high "white noise" that covers all my
HF receivers with s8-s9 noise level....Raised the ambient noise floor at HF probably 12-15 dB. Came on abruptly
and stayed on...it's there unbated 24/7.
At this point, I've been trying to find the source, as yet
to no avail...Pulled the main service AC Mains to the whole house (radios run on DC all the time) and the noise stays there unaffected. Pull the antenna connections off the radios (three different receivers, three different HF antennas) and the noise ceases, so it is being "received" via the antenna systems.
I'm effectively forced off the air on 3.5, 7, 14, and 21 MHz due to this high noise level....I'm about to go nuts trying to figure it out.
Local power company hasn't come up with any solutions either as yet, although they say they "might be able to do some more investigation in a couple weeks".....
(obviously a VERY low priority for them if "shortwave radio" is unuseable for any of their customers for extended periods)
Phooey.....I'm plumb disgusted right now with the whole mess.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I had the same problem here. I solved it by purchasing "Shielded CAT 6 " Cable from the internet. It was not that expensive and all noise and interference between radio and Network were solved.
I purchased from here. Shipping was very fast.
http://www.vpi.us/cat6-shielded.html
Well, whatever this is ain't MY router, as I don't have one...But I gotta find out where all this noise is coming from before I go knocking on doors in the neighborhood...thats the immediate problem here.
KC5CSG
11-07-2007, 12:13 AM
LOL!!! Excuse me sir but can you turn off your wireless router? I can't talk on my radio because of you.
I would just slam the door shut.
n4bfd
11-07-2007, 12:43 AM
I had a netgear... I think it was, that I took on a target shooting outing after It was found that interference from it could not be choked down.
Me and my shooting buddy, who is also a ham and understands, dumped about 60 rounds of 7.62 into it's general direction one day at the range. Needless to say, the router no longer exists in this dimension.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
My Motorola cable modem emits two narrow carriers on 14273.77 and 14274 at an average signal strength of -105 dBm. The thing is, I hear the same thing when I'm in the mobile, all over town, so I wonder if it's actually cable leakage? It goes away (in my shack) if I unplug the cord from the cable modem.
KC7YPJ
11-07-2007, 01:09 AM
my favorite means of disposing of "uncooperative" equipment is miniaturization via a 6000 lb truck, preferably with a front tire so you can turn the wheel and really get it flat :-)
KC5CSG....
If I find out someone nearby has equipment doing this and they DO slam the door shut, they'd better get their checkbook out and be ready to pay the fines the FCC levies on them
for harmful interference and violation of part 15....
My station is properly licensed...and is being interfered with to the point of unuseability, so.....
'course there are "other ways" of dealing with an uncooperative neighbor that is causing problems and won't fix their stuff......
But I gotta find out WHERE this is coming from before we can get to the other fun parts of getting something done about it.....:(
n4bfd
11-07-2007, 01:48 AM
Quote[/b] (KC7YPJ @ Nov. 05 2007,19:09)]my favorite means of disposing of "uncooperative" equipment is miniaturization via a 6000 lb truck, preferably with a front tire so you can turn the wheel and really get it flat :-)
And once you get it flat as possible, you can fold it up and flatten it again ... and again... and again... and...
KC5CSG
11-07-2007, 01:59 AM
Quote[/b] (al7n @ Nov. 06 2007,18:23)]KC5CSG....
If I find out someone nearby has equipment doing this and they DO slam the door shut, they'd better get their checkbook out and be ready to pay the fines the FCC levies on them
for harmful interference and violation of part 15....
My station is properly licensed...and is being interfered with to the point of unuseability, so.....
'course there are "other ways" of dealing with an uncooperative neighbor that is causing problems and won't fix their stuff......
But I gotta find out WHERE this is coming from before we can get to the other fun parts of getting something done about it.....:(
LOL, I knew that passage would cause someone to pull out the radio badge.
There are other ways as well? I was thinking the same thing. I'll bet there are more people in your neighborhood sharing wireless routers than you think. You may be kicking off the crap with more than just one family if you go that route. A ham antenna is easier to get to than a person's router.
So if you want to threaten FCC action that is your right. Then you'll have to go through the process of proving it. It can be done but by the time it got a response the person can just spend 30 or 40 bucks and buy the same model of router and tell the FCC he replaced the router to correct the problem. Then you'll have to start all over again in proving it's still causing problems.
Private citizens are not bound by Part 97 as we are. They do not have to make their router available for inspection by the FCC. Meaning, the FCC has to have cause and a warrant to actually go into the house and inspect. You honestly think the FCC is going to send a van with flashing lights to your neighbors house because he's running a router you "think" may be causing a problem? You know how much of a jerk you'd look like to every neighbor in your area if you went on a mission to hold routers to YOUR standard? LOL, I would love to see that action buddy.
Besides, you better reign it in before going on your mission. I know in my state (TEXAS) some people have NO TRESSPASSING signs in their yard. Meaning, just knocking on a door would make your presence there illegal. Going to send them a letter? LOL........Sorry Mr. FCC, I never got a letter from that guy but hey, I'll replace the router.........Yeah, right.
Now, if you want to go that other route you just suggested I would suggest you put a camera on your tower at all times. People don't take crap from criminals that "have other ways of correcting things". Just by making that statement you just demonstrated your deplomacy skills.
Wow, I've never seen anyone talk about how he'll report someone to the FCC then hint he'd do something illegal all in the same message.
k3wrv
11-07-2007, 02:10 AM
I've got the same problem hr with an "Actiontek" Router. Using Verizon FIOS. In order to shut the darned thing up, I have to unplug BOTH the Router and the ONT (Optical modem) Don't have wireless turned on.
The hash seems to be getting from the computer stuff into the house wiring somehow, and maybe then re-radiating to the antenna.
Moving the FIOS boxes to the middle of the house helped a bit, *brought down the noise level on the beam, increased it on the dipole. Sure hope somebody figures out what the problem might be! Have tried ferrite beads all over the place with no real luck.
de Bob
The problem with my FIOS service turned out to the be lead from their power supply unit in the house to the outside optical network interface.
There is an 8 inch long cable. It generated S7 to S9 hash on 30 and 40M to dipoles 30 feet away.
I put ferrites on every lead in and out of the box on the outside. No help.
Then Verizon showed up. Yes, they have an RFI expert. You have to yell and scream. We tried doing more things.
The only thing that knocked down the noise was putting two ferrite snap on chokes on the lead from the inside PS to the outside one. If you just uplug the a/c power supply, nothing happened (it goes to battery standby.)..you have to disable the battery too..if that makes your noise go away, you got the same problem.
You go inside the outside unit. You go down to the next level - takes a screwdriver...there you see the wire from inside to the outside unit. Mine had a DC to DC converter to generate the ring voltage and on-hook/off-hook voltage for the phone line. It put out the hash. There is a small loop of wire. YOu can get two chokes in the space. That knocked my noise down to under S1.
They have had multiple cases of r.f. interference to hams. The older version equipment that had a 48v supply is even worse.
K0RGR
11-07-2007, 04:06 AM
Sounds like someone needs to perform the 45 degree angle test. When you find the noise maker, put it up against the bottom of a wall at 45 degrees, and step on it real hard. If it makes a crunching sound, it failed the test, and that was the source of the noise.
Seriously, see if you can borrow somebody's FT-817 - that's what I use mine for a lot. Make up a little 'snoop loop' - a length of small coax with a small loop of wire on it, and then go hunting your noise.
I just found a real bad noise source in my house the other day - a monitor on an E-Machines PC. Horrendous noise, and I'd never identified it before, because the PC was rarely on when I was on the air. The worst one ever was a pair of amplified speakers that Wal Mart used to sell by the boat load. I'm keeping the noise-making wall wart just in case they ever install BPL in my neighborhood and I want to wipe it out by injecting high level noise into the power lines!
kn4ds
11-07-2007, 04:54 AM
Quote[/b] (N6WK @ Nov. 06 2007,16:26)]I had the same problem here. I solved it by purchasing "Shielded CAT 6 " Cable from the internet. It was not that expensive and all noise and interference between radio and Network were solved.
I purchased from here. Shipping was very fast.
http://www.vpi.us/cat6-shielded.html
Cat 6 cable is the same as Cat 5 cable... mostly. Its pairs are twisted a bit more, and to a tighter spec, than Cat 5, but I would be mildly surprised (very little shocks me anymore) to find much hash coming from ethernet cables... unless one of the devices on the end of the cable was putting something on the wire that shouldn't be there in the first place.
k5jyd
11-07-2007, 02:42 PM
I have had netgear for over a year, never had any problems of any kind and I have 2m and hf in the same room with the netgear wireless router. Lucky i guess.
k5jyd
Quote[/b] (k3wrv @ Nov. 06 2007,22:10)]I've got the same problem hr with an "Actiontek" Router. #Using Verizon FIOS. #In order to shut the darned thing up, I have to unplug BOTH the Router and the ONT (Optical modem) #Don't have wireless turned on.
FiOS
Actiontek
Wireless on
No problems.
Hope you find it.
W3MIV
11-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Quote[/b] (kj3n @ Nov. 07 2007,13:15)]Quote[/b] (k3wrv @ Nov. 06 2007,22:10)]I've got the same problem hr with an "Actiontek" Router. #Using Verizon FIOS. #In order to shut the darned thing up, I have to unplug BOTH the Router and the ONT (Optical modem) #Don't have wireless turned on.
FiOS
Actiontek
Wireless on
No problems.
Hope you find it.
I, too, am using an Actiontek router with Verizon FiOS. I am having no noise problems.
KC5CSG....
Your ox ain't gored here. You can stow the attitude.
I appreciate the lecture on what I should or shouldn't do, but I think you are laying it on a little heavy......
I don't think you read or understand fully what I was
saying.....
I'll say it again....
I gotta find out WHERE this problem originates FIRST...
That obviously comes before anything can be done about it or for it. Hell, If it turns out to be somebody's router that is causing it, I'll gladly buy them a new one of a type that doesn't have the problem.....
Ain't nobody gonna go jumping of the deep end here.
I suggest you not worry yourself about it.
KC5CSG
11-07-2007, 08:44 PM
Quote[/b] (al7n @ Nov. 07 2007,12:42)]KC5CSG....
Your ox ain't gored here. #You can stow the attitude.
I appreciate the lecture on what I should or shouldn't do, but I think you are laying it on a little heavy...... #
I don't think you read or understand fully what I was
saying.....
I'll say it again....
I gotta find out WHERE this problem originates FIRST...
That obviously comes before anything can be done about it or for it. #Hell, If it turns out to be somebody's router that is causing it, I'll gladly buy them a new one of a type that doesn't have the problem.....
Ain't nobody gonna go jumping of the deep end here.
I suggest you not worry yourself about it.
Stow it. Any moron can see what you were hinting at in your post.
KA4DPO
11-07-2007, 09:03 PM
Quote[/b] (al7n @ Nov. 06 2007,17:06)]Well, whatever this is ain't MY router, as I don't have one...But I gotta find out where all this noise is coming from before I go knocking on doors in the neighborhood...thats the immediate problem here.
I feel your pain. When I lived in Florida I suddenly found the I had an S9 +40 signal from 7 to 29 MHZ. The first thing I did was get a portable SW receiver and turn off all the power in my house to see if it was internal, it wasn't.
Then I started walking around with it and found the source. My next door neighbor had just installed a new swimming pool pump timer and that was it. Fortunately he was a good guy and when I showed him he called the company that installed it. They replaced it and the problem was solved.
Your situation may not be as friendly but heres some info that might be helpful if you haven't already seen it. Good luck finding the source of the noise.
Link to Part 15 Rules (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/part15.html)
KC5CSG....
Jerry, I appreciate your service to our country in the military.
Thank You.
We'll just leave it at that, Eh?
KA4DPO....
Thanks for the link.....I'd already read up there, but it is a handy way to get to it quickly.
There may be some light at the end of the tunnel...
Today, the local power utility went over into the neighborhood to investigate a possible source of this interference that we had identified coming from a local medical imaging center. #The noise was terrible in the local area of that building, and was plenty obvious when driving under the power lines serving the site with AM BCvehicle radio tuned "off channel".
The power utility cut the power to the site and the noise ceased immediately. #Turns out the Imaging Center had already contacted some technical help to find and correct a faulty "conditioner" or some kind of noise filter equipment they have there. (Probably because the power utility as well as myself and a couple other amateurs had been over in the area snooping around for this noise
in the last couple of weeks....On initial contact, they denied having any problem, but now it seems that they actually DID have a problem with their equipment...)
The problem is not gone yet, and I wasn't home to listen to my receivers when they did the power-off test, but it may be the source. #It will be a short time until the Imageing Center gets their equipment repaired, and the power company will be following up on that....I'm willing to wait until all that happens (assuming it don't take forever!) and see if it helps my problem any...That noise was the only abnormal thing we were able to find anywhere around my neighborhood with respect to the power utility. #The Imaging center is located approximately 1/4 mile from my residence.
The level of interference that overhead power line was radiating was certainly strong enough to have been the culprit.
We'll see what happens next, I reckon...:)
KA4DPO
11-07-2007, 09:46 PM
I sure hope you found it. Running down noise sources can be pretty difficult and even harder to get them fixed,
.
Good luck with it..
ke5qjx
11-07-2007, 09:50 PM
Quote[/b] (al7n @ Nov. 06 2007,13:14)]I wonder if something like this is causing a problem I started to have a couple weeks ago (Oct 24th to be exact)...
Something "came on" abruptly that is putting out an extremely high "white noise" #that covers all my
HF receivers with s8-s9 noise level....Raised the ambient noise floor at HF probably 12-15 dB. #Came on abruptly
and stayed on...it's there unbated 24/7.
At this point, I've been trying to find the source, as yet
to no avail...Pulled the main service AC Mains to the whole house (radios run on DC all the time) and the noise stays there unaffected. #Pull the antenna connections off the radios (three different receivers, three different HF antennas) and the noise ceases, so it is being "received" via the antenna systems.
I'm effectively forced off the air on 3.5, 7, 14, and 21 MHz due to this high noise level....I'm about to go nuts trying to figure it out.
Local power company hasn't come up with any solutions either as yet, although they say they "might be able to do some more investigation in a couple weeks".....
(obviously a VERY low priority for them if "shortwave radio" is unuseable for any of their customers for extended periods)
Phooey.....I'm plumb disgusted right now with the whole mess.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
If you are thinking its a wifi signal you might use something like this to find out where the noise if from
2.4 GHz spectrum analyzer
http://www.metageek.net/Products/Wi-Spy
I used them many of times.
I have access to spectrum analyzing equipment where I work...If the "brute force" method of shutting power off to things doesn't sufficiently locate it, that is the next step...
May have to utilize that method anyway, if the power utility ends up with no way to finally determine a location.
We'll see where they get with the recent development mentioned above, when that customer of theirs gets his
own electrical equipment fixed to kill one of the bad sources we've already detected.
Thank you for the suggestion.....and the link.
Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 07 2007,05:54)]Quote[/b] (N6WK @ Nov. 06 2007,16:26)]I had the same problem here. I solved it by purchasing "Shielded CAT 6 " Cable from the internet. It was not that expensive and all noise and interference between radio and Network were solved.
I purchased from here. Shipping was very fast.
http://www.vpi.us/cat6-shielded.html
Cat 6 cable is the same as Cat 5 cable... mostly. Its pairs are twisted a bit more, and to a tighter spec, than Cat 5, but I would be mildly surprised (very little shocks me anymore) to find much hash coming from ethernet cables... unless one of the devices on the end of the cable was putting something on the wire that shouldn't be there in the first place.
Dave, The Cure was the fact that it is SHIELDED cable. Trust me. It really did make all the difference in the world at getting rid of the noise coming from my Local Area Network.
I am sure the noise was being generated in the Router, but the Shielded cable definitely cured it from getting to my radio!!
Gordon
N6WK
KC5CSG
11-07-2007, 11:50 PM
Quote[/b] (al7n @ Nov. 07 2007,14:03)]KC5CSG....
Jerry, I appreciate your service to our country in the military.
Thank You.
We'll just leave it at that, Eh?
Darn it, I hate it when someone I'm picking an argument with says something nice. Now I have to wait for another subject to pick on him about.
Jerry
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I too have had the Netgear Wireless Router Model WGR614. #It tore HF up with hash everywhere in the bands. #I went back to using a wired network, much better and can actually work DX now with the internet up and going. Hope you get it taken care of, best of luck.
# # # # # # # # # # 73
kn4ds
11-08-2007, 04:23 AM
Quote[/b] (N6WK @ Nov. 07 2007,19:28)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 07 2007,05:54)]Quote[/b] (N6WK @ Nov. 06 2007,16:26)]I had the same problem here. I solved it by purchasing "Shielded CAT 6 " Cable from the internet. It was not that expensive and all noise and interference between radio and Network were solved.
I purchased from here. Shipping was very fast.
http://www.vpi.us/cat6-shielded.html
Cat 6 cable is the same as Cat 5 cable... mostly. Its pairs are twisted a bit more, and to a tighter spec, than Cat 5, but I would be mildly surprised (very little shocks me anymore) to find much hash coming from ethernet cables... unless one of the devices on the end of the cable was putting something on the wire that shouldn't be there in the first place.
Dave, The Cure was the fact that it is SHIELDED cable. Trust me. It really did make all the difference in the world at getting rid of the noise coming from my Local Area Network.
I am sure the noise was being generated in the Router, but the Shielded cable definitely cured it from getting to my radio!!
Gordon
N6WK
I don't argue that it solved your problem... I'll have to look into shielded ethernet cables... I'm not certain where the shield would connect... I terminate a lot of my own network cables, granted, Cat 5.