aeronautical HF

[kg4kww]

Earlier this evening I worked my first aeronautical mobile on 3800. Oh what a feeling. He was at 45k feet between the Cayman islands and New Orleans and he was running 200 watts. He had a heck of a pile up and I was lucky enough to be heard over the big guns.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 03 2007,22:46)]Earlier this evening I worked my first aeronautical mobile on 3800. Oh what a feeling. He was at 45k feet between the Cayman islands and New Orleans and he was running 200 watts. He had a heck of a pile up and I was lucky enough to be heard over the big guns.
A couple of weeks ago, I heard a 4 land call on 20m... crystal clear, beautiful signal, he was 60+ over... I looked up his call, and he's in Griffin, GA, just a bit up the road...

Now, there's lots of things I don't know, and this might be one of 'em, but I've heard stations working folks here in the same town I'm in on 20m, and I couldn't hear the local... so I' start thinking something is amiss...

But he was calling CQ... so what the hell... I answered.

Turns out he was aeronautical mobile... 41,000 feet over south Georgia in a Gulfstream V... I got to chat with him a bit... you're right, pretty cool...

I also worked his station (multi/multi I believe) on 10m in the CQ WW contest last weekend...

It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.

Good catch, Greg... that high radiation angle worked out for ya http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kg4kww]

BTW, this guy was from 4 land and was flying a Gulfstream.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 03 2007,23:23)]BTW, this guy was from 4 land and was flying a Gulfstream.
NQ4I?

[kg4kww]

Yep

[KC7UP]

I worked NQ4I aeronautical a few years ago on 15M over the Canary Isl. His card is neat.
Curt

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 03 2007,23:51)]Yep
Cool... you definitely want to QSL him... that card on his website (www.nq4i.com) looks super cool... I haven't yet, but I will... that's one of those I *want*

[n0iu]

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ Nov. 03 2007,16:28)]Cessna 172 is not aeronautical mobile. #You need to be outside the conus to aeronautical (aka over ocean).
Please quote your source.

I know that in order to "officially" use the /MM (maritime mobile) designator, you have to be outside outside of a country's territorial limits on the high seas, but I have never heard of anything similar in regards to being aeronautical mobile.

Since the FCC no longer requires any sort of designation that you are mobile, it would seem that it is pretty much a moot point.

Scott NØIU

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Nov. 04 2007,04:30)]Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ Nov. 03 2007,16:28)]Cessna 172 is not aeronautical mobile. You need to be outside the conus to aeronautical (aka over ocean).
Please quote your source.

I know that in order to "officially" use the /MM (maritime mobile) designator, you have to be outside outside of a country's territorial limits on the high seas, but I have never heard of anything similar in regards to being aeronautical mobile.

Since the FCC no longer requires any sort of designation that you are mobile, it would seem that it is pretty much a moot point.

Scott NØIU
NQ4I uses "airplane mobile" over the US... I heard him tell another station as he approached the coast that a few more minutes and he'd have to switch to "aeronautical mobile" when he got out past the 12 mile limit.

A quick look at Google doesn't turn up any specific reference to any rule, though.

[n4cd]

"When FCC rules apply, what provisions pertain specifically to maritime mobile operation?

When operating from the US, its territories or international waters, you must meet all three requirements in Section 97.11 of FCC rules: "(a) The installation and operation of the amateur station on a ship or aircraft must be approved by the master of the ship or pilot in command of the aircraft; (b) The station must be separate from and independent of all other radio apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft, except a common antenna may be shared with a voluntary ship radio installation. The station's transmissions must not cause interference to any other apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft; © The station must not constitute a hazard to the safety of life or property. For a station aboard an aircraft, the apparatus shall not be operated while the aircraft is operating under Instrument Flight Rules, as defined by the FAA, unless the station has been found to comply with all applicable FAA rules."


When you're in International waters, you operate under the auspices of your FCC license, but you must be mindful of the frequencies assigned to other ITU Regions. The world is divided into three "pieces of the pie." You are bound by the privileges assigned to the ITU Region from which you're operating and by the privileges as outlined by your FCC license. It's a good idea to follow your call sign with the words "maritime mobile" or "aeronautical mobile" followed by the proper ITU Region number."

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/io/maritime.html

You must sign 'aeronautical mobile' or equivalent when out of US territory. You must follow the International Frequency allocations as well for the Region of the world you are in. If you enter the territory of another country, you must have a license there (or operate under any reciprocal agreement, if any with that country - and sign the correct way).

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (n4cd @ Nov. 04 2007,11:07)]You must sign 'aeronautical mobile' or equivalent when out of US territory. You must follow the International Frequency allocations as well for the Region of the world you are in. If you enter the territory of another country, you must have a license there (or operate under any reciprocal agreement, if any with that country - and sign the correct way).
That page says nothing about "must" sign with /MM or /AM. It says it's a good idea, but doesn't say it's required.

It might be buried in the ITU rules someplace... I haven't looked.

None of which answers the original question - where is it written that operating from an aircraft within the United States is not "aeronautical mobile"?

[W2BBQ]

UWL, an aircraft over land is simply "aero" mobile. "AeroNAUTICAL" refers to over water.



I enjoyed a great QSO a couple of months back during the afternoon during a 10 meter opening. Guy was in the Air Force on a break inside a C17 on the ground at McQuire in New Jersey. So not technically even aero-mobile at the time, nonetheless was in an aircraft on the craft's radio system and was a ham of course. Asked the fellow what sort of HF antenna system was in use and he informed that the C17's tail fin was the antenna, utilizing a tuner of course and the fin being electrically isolated from the fuselage. Interesting stuff and fun QSO!

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (w2bbq @ Nov. 04 2007,11:40)]UWL, an aircraft over land is simply "aero" mobile. "AeroNAUTICAL" refers to over water.
Gotcha...

So aeronautical engineers only deal with aircraft over water.

[n4cd]

Over land, you are just mobile..same as if you were in a blimp, or operating your handheld from a kite...or parachute

Now this ham is certainly 'mobile'.

http://www.qsl.net/dl3ga/cur_qsl.htm

And when referring to 'maritime MOBILE' or aeronautical MOBILE....yes, the implication is that in both cases you are in international waters.

Otherwide, only FCC rules apply if you are within the 12 mile limit of the USA. And in that case, the rules do not even you to say 'mobile' any longer. Aeronautical mobile and maritime mobile imply operations in international waters and mean "MOBILE"...not sitting at the dock in port...or on the ground.

You can be 'airplane mobile' or 'boat mobile. Or marine mobile.

Maritime "Mobile" and "aeronautical MOBILE" imply just that. MObile operations outside the juridiction of the home country who issued you the license.

You must comply with the international rules then for priveleges, and the lesser of that or your ham license from country of origin.

SOme hams think that operating in a boat in a lake in MN is 'maritime mobile'. By international rules, it is not. Marine mobile, or boat mobile or sailboat mobile or just plain mobile.

But don't quibble over minor 'nits'....there are a lot more important things to worry about....

[kg4kww]

Do the trans atlantic or trans pacific flights with ham pilots ever put out a CQ from aero HF?

[K9STH]

KWW:

They have been known to do so. However, those are generally from military flights or from cargo flights. Those pilots on scheduled passenger flights normally do not operate on the amateur radio bands.

Glen, K9STH

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 03 2007,22:46)]Earlier this evening I worked my first aeronautical mobile on 3800. Oh what a feeling. He was at 45k feet between the Cayman islands and New Orleans and he was running 200 watts. He had a heck of a pile up and I was lucky enough to be heard over the big guns.
Wanna talk about a pileup, try being on the receiving end of one. I operated back in 2003 over Iraq at about 35k feet. I operated as YI/KC7GNM/AM and as soon as my callsign hit the DX cluster it was a madhouse for over almost 2 hours. I enjoyed it and had fun doing it. Nothing like having the ultimate antenna at 35,000 feet.

Go here (http://hamgallery.com/dx2003/) and scroll down to my call and you can hear a couple of calls I made. This was a recording done by K8CX so I don't take any credit in this.

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,22:57)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 03 2007,22:46)]Earlier this evening I worked my first aeronautical mobile on 3800. Oh what a feeling. He was at 45k feet between the Cayman islands and New Orleans and he was running 200 watts. He had a heck of a pile up and I was lucky enough to be heard over the big guns.
A couple of weeks ago, I heard a 4 land call on 20m... crystal clear, beautiful signal, he was 60+ over... I looked up his call, and he's in Griffin, GA, just a bit up the road...

Now, there's lots of things I don't know, and this might be one of 'em, but I've heard stations working folks here in the same town I'm in on 20m, and I couldn't hear the local... so I' start thinking something is amiss...

But he was calling CQ... so what the hell... I answered.

Turns out he was aeronautical mobile... 41,000 feet over south Georgia in a Gulfstream V... I got to chat with him a bit... you're right, pretty cool...

I also worked his station (multi/multi I believe) on 10m in the CQ WW contest last weekend...

It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.

Good catch, Greg... that high radiation angle worked out for ya http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Dave, you know John, KR4YH, operates a lot AM there in GA. You should hook up with him and go flying with him sometimes. I have and it was a blast.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:06)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,22:57)]It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.
Dave, you know John, KR4YH, operates a lot AM there in GA. You should hook up with him and go flying with him sometimes. I have and it was a blast.
Except it's Mark, and he changed his callsign a couple of weeks back... it's now AE1MS

That's who I referred to that flies the 172 locally...

I've not gone with him, but I have worked him AM several times... one day soon we'll go poke holes in the sky.

I see him at least twice a month... club meetings and VE sessions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 04 2007,23:12)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:06)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,22:57)]It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.
Dave, you know John, KR4YH, operates a lot AM there in GA. You should hook up with him and go flying with him sometimes. I have and it was a blast.
Except it's Mark, and he changed his callsign a couple of weeks back... it's now AE1MS

That's who I referred to that flies the 172 locally...

I've not gone with him, but I have worked him AM several times... one day soon we'll go poke holes in the sky.

I see him at least twice a month... club meetings and VE sessions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Why I called him John I don't know and I didn't know he changed calls. I haven't talked to him via echolink in a long time. I am on the MGRA repeater every now and then when I am mobile between home and work but haven't been on lately. I know Tim AF1G (Ex KC0PA) changed his call but had no idea that Mark did.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:15)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 04 2007,23:12)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:06)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,22:57)]It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.
Dave, you know John, KR4YH, operates a lot AM there in GA. You should hook up with him and go flying with him sometimes. I have and it was a blast.
Except it's Mark, and he changed his callsign a couple of weeks back... it's now AE1MS

That's who I referred to that flies the 172 locally...

I've not gone with him, but I have worked him AM several times... one day soon we'll go poke holes in the sky.

I see him at least twice a month... club meetings and VE sessions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Why I called him John I don't know and I didn't know he changed calls. I haven't talked to him via echolink in a long time. I am on the MGRA repeater every now and then when I am mobile between home and work but haven't been on lately. I know Tim AF1G (Ex KC0PA) changed his call but had no idea that Mark did.
's cool, I knew who ya meant...

Yup, Tim changed his call a while back, but Mark's change is only a couple of weeks old... he and Jean got "matching" callsigns... he's AE1MS, she's AE1JS... isn't that tender? heh

I didn't know you'd left here 'til I saw you here on the forums... mostly, after Clyde's fire, I didn't do much with radio, clubs or anything... I finally came out from under the rock in February...

Mark, Bill (KJ4O) and I did the Intergalactic Jamboree back on Monday... I think that'll do it for special events around here unless we decide to do Winter Field Day (still need to see about when that date gets set)

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 04 2007,23:23)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:15)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 04 2007,23:12)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Nov. 04 2007,23:06)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,22:57)]It wasn't my first aeronautical mobile... one of the guys here locally has a 2 meter rig mounted in his Cessna 172... he gets on the repeater pretty frequently when he's out poking holes in the sky.
Dave, you know John, KR4YH, operates a lot AM there in GA. You should hook up with him and go flying with him sometimes. I have and it was a blast.
Except it's Mark, and he changed his callsign a couple of weeks back... it's now AE1MS

That's who I referred to that flies the 172 locally...

I've not gone with him, but I have worked him AM several times... one day soon we'll go poke holes in the sky.

I see him at least twice a month... club meetings and VE sessions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Why I called him John I don't know and I didn't know he changed calls. I haven't talked to him via echolink in a long time. I am on the MGRA repeater every now and then when I am mobile between home and work but haven't been on lately. I know Tim AF1G (Ex KC0PA) changed his call but had no idea that Mark did.
's cool, I knew who ya meant...

Yup, Tim changed his call a while back, but Mark's change is only a couple of weeks old... he and Jean got "matching" callsigns... he's AE1MS, she's AE1JS... isn't that tender? heh

I didn't know you'd left here 'til I saw you here on the forums... mostly, after Clyde's fire, I didn't do much with radio, clubs or anything... I finally came out from under the rock in February...

Mark, Bill (KJ4O) and I did the Intergalactic Jamboree back on Monday... I think that'll do it for special events around here unless we decide to do Winter Field Day (still need to see about when that date gets set)
Don't think I will ever change mine. The FCC issued it to me sequentially and it has stuck ever since. Besides most of my software is registered under this callsign and trying to change it would be a pain.

[kg4kww]

I hope to work him again the next time he's on the air.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Nov. 07 2007,17:10)]I hope to work him again the next time he's on the air.
Or in it... as the case may be.

[kc2ten]

Quote[/b] (w2bbq @ Nov. 04 2007,11:40)]UWL, an aircraft over land is simply "aero" mobile. "AeroNAUTICAL" refers to over water.



I enjoyed a great QSO a couple of months back during the afternoon during a 10 meter opening. Guy was in the Air Force on a break inside a C17 on the ground at McQuire in New Jersey. So not technically even aero-mobile at the time, nonetheless was in an aircraft on the craft's radio system and was a ham of course. Asked the fellow what sort of HF antenna system was in use and he informed that the C17's tail fin was the antenna, utilizing a tuner of course and the fin being electrically isolated from the fuselage. Interesting stuff and fun QSO!
What was his call? I'm also stationed at McGuire and I get on HF mostly when I'm in my KC-10.

[W0LPQ]

BBQ the tail is isolated from the aircraft structure except at the top, where it is grounded to the airframe. Military and Corporates have been doing it that way for years.

Typical is the Collins ARC-190 or later versions with the tuner as part of the package. The tuner is mounted at the base of the antenna (vertical fin) with less than 2 feet of "usually" copper pipe (1/4" to 3/8") from the coupler to the base of the vertical tail.

[k6jpd]

as far as the "stroke xyz" is concerned, the last round of R&O hearings touched on this subject.
seems the QCWA wanted an R & O to use /A, /N,/M,/A as an ssid to designate past army, navy ect.
the FCC answered that they didn't NEED a R&O change as they already had to authority to do so.
The Commission said they were not persuaded that proposing the requested rule change is warranted. “Amateur radio operators who are current or honorably discharged members of the United States military already are permitted to identify their stations in the way QCWA suggests.

Section 97.119© provides that “One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.”

sooooo, it looks like you can sign: call/anythingyouwant (except as noted.)