View Full Version : 40 Meters gone downhill?
k4avl
11-03-2007, 03:29 AM
I've had a real busy 2 work weeks, and haven't had time to get on the air much, but it seems the past 3-4 nights or so when I do check on 40 in the evening, it's almost wall-to-wall foreign broadcast stations and very few ham QSO's. (I'm in NC)
Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen it this bad up until now.
Does anyone else notice this, or is my antenna perhaps shorted out? Also hear next to nothing on 20 in the evenings, on a different antenna.
During contest weekend, several days ago, it was booming on both bands, wall-to-wall activity.
As a downside to the lesser QRN & storm activity static in the cold months, are we also subjected to more interference from these broadcasters all winter?
This will be the first winter I'm back in the hobby after a few decades, as I was hoping things will be better in the cold weather , despite the low period in the sunspot cycle.
WW3QB
11-03-2007, 03:35 AM
I just shut off my rig. I was listening to 40. I heard the usual number of broadcast stations, but there was plenty of room for hams between them. It was quiet tonight. I'm in Maryland, and I heard strong signals from hams in Florida and California just minutes ago. I was about to call CQ, but decided I need more sleep.
KC2PBJ
11-03-2007, 03:37 AM
As Popeye said so well, "It's disgustipating".
kn4ds
11-03-2007, 03:56 AM
I would call CQ on 40m, but SWMBO is more interested in some show on Speed Channel right now...
This has been a problem with 40 meters since 1927, but it will get better... in about a year and a half! At the World Radio Conference WRC-03 in 2003, it was agreed that the broadcast stations would move out of the section 7100-7200 KHz on March 29, 2009 and that portion would become a worldwide exclusive amateur allocation afterwards. The issue of broadcast stations in the 4-10 MHz range have not been settled and are being discussed at the WRC-07 which is going on as we speak.
Scott NĜIU
Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
ab9lz
11-03-2007, 02:53 PM
What broadcast stations? I haven't heard a single one on 40... they must be up there in the yakkerfone section of the band.
73 m/4
K9STH
11-03-2007, 03:55 PM
AVL:
There are probably only about 1/10th the broadcast stations on 40 meters than there were back in the 1950s through the 1970s. Radio Moscow used to be every 10 KHz (separate stations) from 7100 KHz to 7300 KHz running megawatt transmitters and some of these "Region I" stations were actually near Havana, Cuba (Region II). The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) had stations every 20 KHz and the VOA (Voice of America) had several stations operating in the 40 meter band (they still have at least one that operates on 7290 KHz - the AM "calling frequency").
Virtually every "podunk" country in the world had at least 1 station operating in the 40 meter band and to keep from having direct problems with Radio Moscow they would operate on the 5 KHz (sometimes even like 3 or 4 KHz) channels between Radio Moscow's transmitters.
The "olde tyme" Novice Class CW band was 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz and novices soon learned to either stay away from the band or else to "live" with Radio Moscow during the evening and night. Frankly, it was NOT a "pretty sight"!
After dark the only amateur phone stations that could reliably work the band were those who ran a full KW (and a "California kilowatt" was even better - a "California kilowatt" was someone who was definitely running more than the legal 1,000 watts maximum input). Those who had rigs like Heath DX-35, DX-40, Globe Scout, etc., and even those of us who had Heath DX-100 and Johnson Viking II equipment used to get on 7290 KHz after school and run until almost dark. Then we would have to QRT or go to CW because of Radio Moscow and other broadcast stations.
Even though the interference from broadcast stations seems bad today, it is definitely a WHOLE lot better than in yesteryear (and yes, I did have to walk to school in 3 feet of snow - at times - but it was on relatively flat ground, not "up hill" both ways).
Glen, K9STH
kn4ds
11-03-2007, 04:28 PM
I've no idea what the various schedules are for the broadcast stations, but it seems they're only on a specific frequency for an hour or two.
Every hour, the open spots seem to move around a bit, but there always do seem to be clear frequencies at night.
I would suggest moving down below 7.050 MHz, I rarely go above that frequency unless I'm operating PSK31
Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,09:28)]I've no idea what the various schedules are for the broadcast stations, but it seems they're only on a specific frequency for an hour or two. #
Every hour, the open spots seem to move around a bit, but there always do seem to be clear frequencies at night.
It depends. Some of the Radio China International setups have a five KHz channel tied up for 3 or 4 hours in one session.
Here (http://shortwave.hfradio.org/) is a linky to a website which lists BC station schedules for a given frequency. A lot of frequencies are occupied up to 18 hours a day.
G0GQK
11-03-2007, 08:41 PM
The number of broadcasting stations has reduced quite considerably in the last couple of years. European amateurs are now able to operate in the portion from 7.100 to 7.200 at different times depending on propagation conditions.
Perhaps one reason why many don't use the new allocated portion of the band is because tranceivers in Europe have to have the frequencies extended which can be costly and as the benefit is so small probably they just can't be bothered until the broadcasting company's vacate the band completely in about 18 months.
I wonder if the digital frequencies on 40 metres will be moved from 7.038 for PSK in Europe to 7.070 as in the US ?
G0GQK
Glen's post is right on the money! If you think 40 is bad now, you probably did not struggle with it back at the height of the "Cold War" when Radio Moscow was 40 over Nine on a rusty nail antenna, and every other country in the world was trying to wedge between their transmission frequencies!
I am actually amazed at how much room there is on the 40 meter band, vs. how it used to be back in the 60s and 70s. Of course, a lot of that precept depends on what modes you operate. SSB ops are going to suffer more QRM than the CW/digital crowd. Hmmm , does that say anything about why one should work something other than SSB ? Naaa, not for a moment ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
73, Jim
Something else to consider, as winter aproaches in the northern hemisphere, the band propigation is getting stretched out earlier, quite a few hours before sunset.
The DX signals are getting stronger earlier in the afternoon.
This afternoon, around 12:30 eastern time, I worked a station down in S. Louisiana, from the Detroit area with good signal levels on 40 CW.. We both were running 100 W. A few hours earlier I got a 599 report from another Louisiana station, gave him a 579 and then he tells me he has a HW 8 with 2 watts output !
Usually the daytime absorbtion of high angle signals does not allow this kind of contact on 40M
Too bad in a few years the sunspots will restart and spoil all the fun on 160 thru 40 M ! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
w5lda
11-04-2007, 12:22 AM
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! #The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,17:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
Looks like another goat is grazing in my barn...
AB6ND
11-04-2007, 12:56 AM
Who listens to them?
AB6ND
I had thought it was simply me getting a better antenna. Guess not!
Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
kn4ds
11-04-2007, 01:11 AM
Quote[/b] (AB6ND @ Nov. 03 2007,20:56)]Who listens to them?
AB6ND
This got me to wondering... who does listen?
So I went looking, and apparently, there's no way to know. I'd hoped there was some kind of Arbitron-like service for SW, but it looks like there's not.
But I did find this article an interesting read:
http://www.rwonline.com/referen....2.shtml (http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/special-report/05_rwf_shortwave_2.shtml)
w5lda
11-04-2007, 01:55 AM
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,12:46)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,17:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! #The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
Looks like another goat is grazing in my barn...
Yup! Right alongside a hard-headed mule http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
w5lda
11-04-2007, 02:00 AM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 03 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! #The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. #In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
Tell me again how long you have been an amateur!
Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 03 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
Tell me again how long you have been an amateur!
Apparantly Ryan's been around long enough to know the difference between "improperly adjusted" transmitters and "audio quality" which is more than you know apparantly. ROFLMAO!
ai4ep
11-04-2007, 02:30 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Go easy on them Charlie, they may be appearing to be wise here on the monitor, but not in real life situations.
Show some compassion for those that are not as wise as you are. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KA4DPO
11-04-2007, 02:33 AM
Adding to what STH already said, in the 60's the novice band was loaded with BCI at night. #Back then not many novices had receivers with notch filters. # I learned to work through the heterodynes. #It could be pretty rough copy back then. #There are far fewer broadcast stations on 40 these days.
w5lda
11-04-2007, 03:15 AM
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,14:14)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 03 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! #The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. #In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
Tell me again how long you have been an amateur!
Apparantly Ryan's been around long enough to know the difference between "improperly adjusted" transmitters and "audio quality" which is more than you know apparantly. #ROFLMAO!
There you go,,,My rig is certainly not adjusted improperly as you may think just because i am an HF"newbie" as Charlie seems to enjoy catagorizing all the new guys..Audio quality and splattering can go hand in hand.
As Ryan says the Hi-Fi guys are some of the worse,but to me,that is not quality when they splatter up and down the band.
w5lda
11-04-2007, 03:18 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Nov. 03 2007,14:30)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Go easy on them Charlie, they may be appearing to be wise here on the monitor, but not in real life situations.
Show some compassion for those that are not as wise as you are. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Robert,,speaking of wise.When are you ever going to say something wise instead of just adding to your post count? We're all still waiting!
WW3QB
11-04-2007, 05:38 AM
40m sounded dead tonight. I was just about to give up, but then heard South Africa calling CQ (split) and worked him. It is a band of surprises.
A71AN
11-04-2007, 10:04 AM
It is also here, the 40M is well equpied by broadcasting stations, hardly find any place for ham, some countries do not work within their permitted frequencies and their stations shift a lot and cover high range on the requency.
do the international rules, have anything to do with these broadcasting services ?
KB7GL
11-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 03 2007,08:55)]AVL:
The "olde tyme" Novice Class CW band was 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz and novices soon learned to either stay away from the band or else to "live" with Radio Moscow during the evening and night. Frankly, it was NOT a "pretty sight"!
Glen, K9STH
Maybe my memory is leaking, but I seem to recall that the "real" 'olde tyme' Novice band was 7100-7150. I'm pretty sure the one "rock" for my Viking Adventurer was ground to 7125. This was in 1958, so I might be suffering from OF syndrome!
N8GAV
11-04-2007, 07:05 PM
Quote[/b] (KB7GL @ Nov. 04 2007,10:51)]Maybe my memory is leaking, but I seem to recall that the "real" 'olde tyme' Novice band was 7100-7150. I'm pretty sure the one "rock" for my Viking Adventurer was ground to 7125. This was in 1958, so I might be suffering from OF syndrome!
I was thinking the same thing 7.100 to 7.150. A lot of the old Iron Curtin counties were on the 41 meter short wave band,but it is a lot better today then 20 years ago. I have worked some gray line DX on 40 the past few weeks mostly Central Europe,and some splits with France and Belgin stations. I find 40 meters ether long or short one minute your talking to someone in New England States then the next thing you know they are gone and Texas is calling. A great band to work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KA4DPO
11-04-2007, 07:39 PM
Quote[/b] (N8GAV @ Nov. 04 2007,14:05)]Quote[/b] (KB7GL @ Nov. 04 2007,10:51)]Maybe my memory is leaking, but I seem to recall that the "real" 'olde tyme' Novice band was 7100-7150. I'm pretty sure the one "rock" for my Viking Adventurer was ground to 7125. This was in 1958, so I might be suffering from OF syndrome!
I was thinking the same thing 7.100 to 7.150. A lot of the old Iron Curtin counties were on the 41 meter short wave band,but it is a lot better today then 20 years ago. I have worked some gray line DX on 40 the past few weeks mostly Central Europe,and some splits with France and Belgin stations. I find 40 meters ether long or short one minute your talking to someone in New England States then the next thing you know they are gone and Texas is calling. A great band to work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I know that when I was a novice in 1965 it was 7.100 to 7.150 MHZ. I still have a 7.125 Xtal, that was a popular spot. Since you were class of 58 I doubt if I worked you on the novice band but who knows? I also notice there's still foreign broadcast from eastern Europe on there at night. It was there back then so I guess things haven't changed much.
K9STH
11-04-2007, 09:03 PM
GL:
Methinks your memory is going. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
In 1955 the Novice Class band on 40 meters was 7175 KHz to 7200 KHz and by 1959 it had been expanded to 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz. When the phone band was expanded down to 7150 KHz then the Novice Class band was lowered to 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. However, that was not for quite a number of years.
I have attached a composite scan from the 1955 and the 1959 ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook showing the bands.
DPO:
According to the frequency charts in the 1972 ARRL Handbook the Novice Class band was still 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz. In the 1973 ARRL Handbook it shows 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. Therefore the change was made sometime in 1972. Also, I went to my older copies of Part 97. The 1972 version shows 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz and the 1973 version shows 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. This confirms that the frequency change was made sometime in 1972.
Glen, K9STH
WA2ZDY
11-04-2007, 09:33 PM
Glen is right; the 40m Novice band was moved in the early 70s. I have a 1969 Handbook showing 7150-7200. When I was a Novice in 1975, it was 7100-7150 and my single rock was on 7123.
In all I've read by Sumner of ARRL, he got one thing right a couple years ago: he described the 40m Novice band of old as a ghetto. As Glen said, Radio Moscow was on every 10KHz across the whole band, claiming to run 120kw from transmitters near Odessa on the Crimean penninsula. Hogwash! Megawatts in Havana is more like it.
To magnify the SWBC problems, we Novices were using junk for equipment. Crystal filter? What's that? My second receiver, a 1938 vintage Hammarlund HQ120 was a dramatic improvement for the 40m Novice ghetto.
Avoiding nearly all SWBC on 40m is easy; stay below 7100.
KB7GL
11-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Glen might be correct, but I can't read the attachment. Guess I need to go find a handbook from 1957-58. I think the novice portion was moved more than a couple of times.
ai4ep
11-04-2007, 11:56 PM
The FCC deserves some of the blame for allowing the tests to become so easy to pass....totally eliminating the cw test, and making the WRITTEN tests so easy , also.
KA4DPO
11-05-2007, 12:30 AM
Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 04 2007,16:03)]GL:
Methinks your memory is going. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
In 1955 the Novice Class band on 40 meters was 7175 KHz to 7200 KHz and by 1959 it had been expanded to 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz. #When the phone band was expanded down to 7150 KHz then the Novice Class band was lowered to 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. #However, that was not for quite a number of years.
I have attached a composite scan from the 1955 and the 1959 ARRL Radio Amateur's Handbook showing the bands.
DPO:
According to the frequency charts in the 1972 ARRL Handbook the Novice Class band was still 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz. #In the 1973 ARRL Handbook it shows 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. #Therefore the change was made sometime in 1972. #Also, I went to my older copies of Part 97. #The 1972 version shows 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz and the 1973 version shows 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. #This confirms that the frequency change was made sometime in 1972.
Glen, K9STH
OK, I still have a 7.125 crystal...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K9STH
11-05-2007, 12:37 AM
GL:
I believe that the original Novice Class frequencies were the same as the 1955 ones. However, I do not have any Handbooks between 1950 and 1955 to verify this. Sometime between 1955 and 1959 the 40 meter frequencies went to 7150 MHz to 7200 MHz. The next change was in 1972 when they were changed to 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. This I confirmed by both the ARRL Handbook and the FCC regulations. The last change was about a year ago when the Novice Class was given the same CW frequencies on 40 meters as the General Class.
Glen, K9STH
KA4DPO
11-05-2007, 12:47 AM
Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 04 2007,19:37)]GL:
I believe that the original Novice Class frequencies were the same as the 1955 ones. #However, I do not have any Handbooks between 1950 and 1955 to verify this. #Sometime between 1955 and 1959 the 40 meter frequencies went to 7150 MHz to 7200 MHz. #The next change was in 1972 when they were changed to 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz. #This I confirmed by both the ARRL Handbook and the FCC regulations. #The last change was about a year ago when the Novice Class was given the same CW frequencies on 40 meters as the General Class.
Glen, K9STH
Your right the 40 meter segment was 7.15 to 7.2 MHZ.
I think the 15 meter band was 21.1 to 21.145 in 1955 and was expanded an extra 50 KHZ to 21.250 in 1962 or 63 but I know it was before I came along. I also remember that novices lost 2 meter phone sometime in the late 60's.
KB7GL
11-05-2007, 01:02 AM
Glen, et al --
Yeah, The widening to 50 KHz must have occurred by the time I got my license in either late 57 or early 58. I remember that my xtal was centered 25 KHz from either end of the band. Must have been a 7175 rock. Guess I got confused, since the frequency band had changed to 7100-7150 when I got back into the hobby with a new Novice call in 1978.
73, Vic
ex-KN7DWN
KC9JIQ
11-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Nov. 03 2007,18:11)]Quote[/b] (AB6ND @ Nov. 03 2007,20:56)]Who listens to them?
AB6ND
This got me to wondering... who does listen?
So I went looking, and apparently, there's no way to know. #I'd hoped there was some kind of Arbitron-like service for SW, but it looks like there's not.
But I did find this article an interesting read:
http://www.rwonline.com/referen....2.shtml (http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/special-report/05_rwf_shortwave_2.shtml)
SWL reports! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K9STH
11-05-2007, 02:55 AM
DPO:
See the attachment that I put in the reply just before yours. The Novice Class 15 meter segment was 21.100 MHz to 21.250 MHz from 1951 until 22 November 1972 (I found when the 40 meter segment changed and it was 22 November 1972) when the band was reduced 50 KHz (21.100 MHz to 21.200 MHz). However, the Novice Class actually gained 50 KHz on HF since they also acquired 21.100 MHz to 21.200 MHz. But, they also lost their 2 meter band privileges which had been 145.0 MHz to 147.0 MHz (these were code only since Novices lost 2 meter phone privileges on 22 November 1968). With the changes on 22 November 1972 the power input was still 75 watts but the requirement for crystal control was eliminated thus allowing the Novice Class operator to use VFO control for the first time. The 200 watt power output restriction came later.
Of course Novice Class operators gained 28.1 MHz to 28.3 MHz for CW and 28.3 MHz to 28.5 MHz for CW and SSB phone at a later date. Then, about a year ago, Novice Class got 28.0 MHz to 28.3 MHz for CW and data as well as retaining 28.3 MHz to 28.5 MHz for CW and SSB phone (only).
Isn't history grand?!!
Glen, K9STH
Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 03 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
Tell me again how long you have been an amateur!
October 31 made it exactly 10 years.
History:
10/31/97 - 9Z4DS
12/11/97 - 9Y4RAJ (13WPM)
06/15/01 - AB2MH
05/30/07 - N2RJ
And I've had HF privileges during all of those 10 years. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Take a read, old man, and learn something.
Linque (http://www.w8ji.com/transmitter_splatter.htm)
KA4DPO
11-05-2007, 03:01 PM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 05 2007,09:55)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Nov. 03 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (w5lda @ Nov. 03 2007,19:22)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 03 2007,00:19)]Quote[/b] ]40 Meters gone downhill?, Too many broadcast stations
Naw! #The "broadcast" stations are really just RF image signals from splattering codeless upgrade transmitters that are improperly adjusted. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Another meaningless post from Mr. Ham himself. I'll put my audio quality up against yours any day OM!
"Audio quality" has little to do with it. #In fact some of the "hi-fi hams" are the worst offenders.
Tell me again how long you have been an amateur!
October 31 made it exactly 10 years. #
History:
10/31/97 - 9Z4DS
12/11/97 - 9Y4RAJ (13WPM)
06/15/01 - AB2MH
05/30/07 - N2RJ
And I've had HF privileges during all of those 10 years. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Take a read, old man, and learn something.
Linque (http://www.w8ji.com/transmitter_splatter.htm)
Excellent report. The facts speak for themselves.
WA3KYY
11-05-2007, 04:11 PM
Quote[/b] (k8jd @ Nov. 03 2007,19:49)]Something else to consider, as winter aproaches in the northern hemisphere, the band propigation is getting stretched out earlier, quite a few hours before sunset.
The DX signals are getting stronger earlier in the afternoon.
This afternoon, around 12:30 eastern time, I worked a station down in S. Louisiana, from the Detroit area with good signal levels on 40 CW.. We both were running 100 W. A few hours earlier I got a 599 report from another Louisiana station, gave him a 579 and then he tells me he has a HW 8 with 2 watts output !
Usually the daytime absorbtion of high angle signals does not #allow this kind of contact on 40M
Too bad in a few years the sunspots will restart and spoil all the fun on 160 thru 40 M ! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I'll second that. There were some great QRP signals on 40M this weekend during CW SS and even on 80M. The bands were very quiet and signals were generally strong here in MDfrom quite early in the day. QRP stations were successfully holding their run frequency and making tons of contacts. I worked one QRP op whose serial number was in the 800s late Sunday on 80M. He was a solid 579. He must have a killer antenna for 80M!
73,
Mike WA3KYY
WA3KYY
11-05-2007, 04:14 PM
Quote[/b] (N8GAV @ Nov. 04 2007,15:05)]Quote[/b] (KB7GL @ Nov. 04 2007,10:51)]Maybe my memory is leaking, but I seem to recall that the "real" 'olde tyme' Novice band was 7100-7150. I'm pretty sure the one "rock" for my Viking Adventurer was ground to 7125. This was in 1958, so I might be suffering from OF syndrome!
I was thinking the same thing 7.100 to 7.150. A lot of the old Iron Curtin counties were on the 41 meter short wave band,but it is a lot better today then 20 years ago. I have worked some gray line DX on 40 the past few weeks mostly Central Europe,and some splits with France and Belgin stations. I find 40 meters ether long or short one minute your talking to someone in New England States then the next thing you know they are gone and Texas is calling. A great band to work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I got my Novice in 1965 and had rocks for 7.158, 7.174 and 7.193. #My favorite was 7.158, just far enough away from most broadcasters to be usable most of the time in the evening.
So if the Novice band was at one time 7.10 - 7.15, that was before my Novice days. That was the Novice band later though as we all know.
73,
Mike WA3KYY
I was a novice in 1986 and the band was 7.100 to 7.150. The band always had activity on it.
KD6NIG
11-05-2007, 04:50 PM
So let me see if I have this right. Seeing as I have a non-coded license, I'm not as smart as many of you according to some.
But....
These broadcasts you're complaining about are there legally, right?
WA2ZDY
11-05-2007, 05:02 PM
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Nov. 05 2007,12:50)]These broadcasts you're complaining about are there legally, right?
Well, sort of. The world is divided into three ITU regions - I, II and III. North and South America are in II, I is Europe and Africa, and III is the rest of the world. (Roughly, you can find details all over the web.)
Broadcast is legal above 7100 in R-I and R-III. There is, or at least used to be a provision that such transmissions not interfere with other stuff, like hams, in R-II. But we all know that radio waves don't respect geopolitical boundaries. So we put up with it; we don't have much choice.
Last night I heard the VOA on 7200. Talk about your tax dollars at work! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
KD6NIG
11-05-2007, 05:12 PM
Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Nov. 05 2007,10:02)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Nov. 05 2007,12:50)]These broadcasts you're complaining about are there legally, right?
Well, sort of. The world is divided into three ITU regions - I, II and III. North and South America are in II, I is Europe and Africa, and III is the rest of the world. (Roughly, you can find details all over the web.)
Broadcast is legal above 7100 in R-I and R-III. There is, or at least used to be a provision that such transmissions not interfere with other stuff, like hams, in R-II. But we all know that radio waves don't respect geopolitical boundaries. So we put up with it; we don't have much choice.
Thats what I thought. So we're ranting here, but right now we can rant all we want because they are legal.
I thought perhaps we had pirates (ARRRR!) or Moscow was doing it purposely. I didn't think so but wanted to be sure. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K9STH
11-05-2007, 10:42 PM
KYY:
The Novice Class 40 meter section of 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz was AFTER your stint as a Novice Class. As I posted above, the segment changed from 7150 KHz to 7200 KHz and became 7100 KHz to 7150 KHz on 22 November 1972.
Glen, K9STH
In my humble opinion, propagation on 40 meters right now is the best I've ever experienced. I don't recall such long-haul daytime propagation in previous cycles as we're experiencing right now. During this weekend's Sweepstakes event, I was routinely working stations east of the Mississippi River from Virginia during the middle of the day, running only 100 watts and a dipole. Maybe it's just my imagination, but I don't remember that happening during past cycles. The fact that the broadcast stations are so loud is just more evidence that the band is very good; Perhaps it's not good for ragchewing with your buddies in a neighboring state, but if you're trying to work St. Brandon, it's a plus. In fact, the only band that I worked 3B7C on was 40 Meters. Considering that my antenna farm consist of a bunch of dipoles hanging in a pine tree, I'm happy with that.
As for who's listening to the broadcast stations? I got my start in radio listening to the broadcast stations. The very first entry in my shortwave log is Radio Moscow, on August 1, 1975, when I was 15. What a crock of BS it was. But it all led to becoming a ham four years later.
You think that was good? I was working W0s in Colorado at noon. Thats 1800 miles in broad daylight!?!
I didn't say it was good. I'm using mediocre antennas. I'm was stating that it's not ordinary. In four years, I'd bet that you won't be able to work Colorado in broad daylight.
The band seemed fine to me. Working EU on 40 was business as usual. I2VRN was 20 over night before last. He gave me a report of 10 over. Not bad considering I was using 100w!
KD4IFB
11-06-2007, 11:30 PM
Just worked AA4SS, Maritime mobile in the S.Atlantic aboard the USS Carney.. On his way to he couldnt say, but put his markings on the gps of the contacts that QSLed. 40 meters has its times, but when its good.. Its Good! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
In my first post, I made a mistake. I said I was routinely working stations east of the Mississippi from Virginia during Sweepstakes. What I meant to say was that I was routinely working stations west of the Mississippi from Virginia, during broad daylight. I should know by now to proofread before posting.
I missed four sections: West Texas, Quebec, Manitoba.....and of course, the Northwest Territories/Yukon. When 20 closed, and I knew I wasn't going to get NT, so I gave up chasing the other three and just tried to run as many stations as possible.
WA2ZDY
11-08-2007, 06:08 PM
Quote[/b] (WK5X @ Nov. 05 2007,21:03)]In my humble opinion, propagation on 40 meters right now is the best I've ever experienced. I don't recall such long-haul daytime propagation in previous cycles as we're experiencing right now. During this weekend's Sweepstakes event, I was routinely working stations east of the Mississippi River from Virginia during the middle of the day, running only 100 watts and a dipole. Maybe it's just my imagination, but I don't remember that happening during past cycles.
I was just thinking about this the other day and I'm glad you brought it up.
I was a Novice from January to December 1975. Except for the first month, I used a Globe Scout putting out maybe 30w on a good day to a dipole of sorts in the attic of our house. This was in central New Jersey.
I worked CO2BB and CM2PB regularly during the day on the 40m Novice band. My log also shows a preponderance of contacts during the day in the summer of 1975 with stations in the midwest. Florissant, Missouri and Sheboygan, Wisconsin must have been breeding Novices because those two places appear frequently in my logbook.
Thinking back over the past few years, that propagation has not been particulary noted. But in 1975 it was the norm.
I think your experience in 1975 correlates perfectly to the current conditions on 40 Meters. That was the end of Cycle 20, and the beginning of Cycle 21. We are at the exact same point, but three solar cycles later. There's obviously a lot less D-layer absorption than normal.
wa9cwx
11-09-2007, 01:11 AM
Is it just me... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ....or are virtually ALL of the SW stations broadcasting religious stuff these days ?
I seem to remember more international 'bragging' by SW stations in the 60s, and of course, 'Wheat Production' etc., figures endlessly coming from Radio Moscow in the 70s.
But these days, it seems they are ALL talking some form of 'salvation' and hell, or whatever flavor they are into of religion.
Frank
Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Nov. 08 2007,20:11)]Is it just me... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ....or are virtually ALL of the SW stations broadcasting religious stuff these days ?
No, only the American ones (excluding VOA.)
And the Red Chinese seem to be up and coming in the propaganda broadcast arena.
N8GAV
11-09-2007, 01:45 AM
Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Nov. 08 2007,18:11)]Is it just me... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ....or are virtually ALL of the SW stations broadcasting religious stuff these days ?
I seem to remember more international 'bragging' by SW stations in the 60s, and of course, 'Wheat Production' etc., figures endlessly coming from Radio Moscow in the 70s.
But these days, it seems they are ALL talking some form of 'salvation' and hell, or whatever flavor they are into of religion.
Frank
I would say 90% are Bible Thumpers. Of that 40% sell time to the Anti-Goverment nut jobs..... The BBC, Radio France International, Radio DW (Germany) no longer beam programs to North America http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Which is a shame . Of course Raido Havana,still can be heard as well as Raido Netherland,Japan,Viet Nam, China,and Tiwan on the 49 meter band.Radio Moscow is now The Voice Of Russia and is no fun without all the propaganda they use to spew.
wa9cwx
11-09-2007, 02:07 AM
Actually, even though over the years I have spent probably several thousand hours on non-ham HF frequencies, I have probably only actually listened to SW stations less than a few hours, total.
Almost all my listening used to be for UTE station IDs in CW. Sometimes with two or three receivers monitoring dead frequencies for hours, just to catch a distant ID.
A lot of ship to shore CW, then RTTY news services during the 70s and then ship TOR stations and a few Mil station IDers through the early 90s.
Never could get into listening to foreign Broadcast though.
Quote[/b] (N8GAV @ Nov. 08 2007,20:45)]Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Nov. 08 2007,18:11)]Is it just me... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ....or are virtually ALL of the SW stations broadcasting religious stuff these days ?
I seem to remember more international 'bragging' by SW stations in the 60s, and of course, 'Wheat Production' etc., figures endlessly coming from Radio Moscow in the 70s.
But these days, it seems they are ALL talking some form of 'salvation' and hell, or whatever flavor they are into of religion.
Frank
I would say 90% are Bible Thumpers. Of that 40% sell time to the Anti-Goverment nut jobs..... The BBC, Radio France International, Radio DW (Germany) no longer beam programs to North America http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Which is a shame . Of course Raido Havana,still can be heard as well as Raido Netherland,Japan,Viet Nam, China,and Tiwan on the 49 meter band.Radio Moscow is now The Voice Of Russia and is no fun without all the propaganda they use to spew.
North Americans don't care about shortwave anyway.
We get our propaganda from satellite and cable and also the internet now.
Also, I get the BBC on XM satellite radio.
N8GAV
11-09-2007, 02:26 AM
I still have the SWL bug. My first brand new car was a 1971 VW Super Bettle that had a AM SW radio in it. Ever since I have had a SW conveter in my car to play around with when I am driving at night.
W0BKR
11-09-2007, 11:35 AM
Quote[/b] (k4avl @ Nov. 02 2007,20:29)]I've had a real busy 2 work weeks, and haven't had time to get on the air much, but it seems the past 3-4 nights or so when I do check on 40 in the evening, it's almost wall-to-wall foreign broadcast stations and very few ham QSO's. (I'm in NC)
Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen it this bad up until now.
Does anyone else notice this, or is my antenna perhaps shorted out? Also hear next to nothing on 20 in the evenings, on a different antenna.
During contest weekend, several days ago, it was booming on both bands, wall-to-wall activity.
As a downside to the lesser QRN & storm activity static in the cold months, are we also subjected to more interference #from these broadcasters all winter?
This will be the first winter I'm back in the hobby after a few decades, as I was hoping things will be better in the cold weather , despite the low period in the sunspot cycle.
Must be new to 40 meters.