Congress: our kids don't go to a government school

[KG4JYD]

Congress: School Choice for Me, But Not For Thee

More than a third of members of Congress think their children's education is too important to risk to government schools.

However, many of these same Congress critters strongly oppose school choice legislation that would give the same opportunity to other families.

In other words, while America's disastrous government schools aren't good enough for *their* children, they're just fine for yours.

Although they didn't put it quite that way, that's the implication of a new report by the conservative Heritage Foundation, which has found that 37 percent of Representatives and 45 percent of Senators in the 110th Congress have sent their children to private schools -- almost four times the rate of the general population (11.5 percent).

Notes Heritage: "Based on the survey results, if all of the Members who exercised school choice for their own children had supported school choice in policy, every major legislative effort in recent years to give parents school choice would have passed."

Highlights of the study's findings include:

* Over 37 percent of Representatives and 45 percent of Senators responded that they had sent their children to private school;

* Over 23 percent of House Education and Labor Committee members and 33 percent of Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee members exercised private school choice;

* 52 percent of Congressional Black Caucus members and 38 percent of Congressional Hispanic Caucus -- who represent populations that have fared poorly academically in public schools and that stand to benefit the most from educational options -- sent at least one child to private school.

(The study categorized Members of Congress who have sent at least one child to private school at any time as having exercised school choice.)

A growing body of studies indicates that private schools perform better and are safer. So tell your congressional representatives... oh, that's right, they already know. Look where they send their own kids.
(Source: Heritage Foundation http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/bg2066.cfm )

[KC4RAN]

Don't forget that Congress members are also not part of the Social Security program (they have their own separate retirement program), and I thought that they had their own separate health insurance.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Oct. 17 2007,23:56)]
Quote[/b] ]
Although they didn't put it quite that way, that's the implication of a new report by the conservative Heritage Foundation, which has found that 37 percent of Representatives and 45 percent of Senators in the 110th Congress have sent their children to private schools -- almost four times the rate of the general population (11.5 percent).


"Children" of up to what age ? Up to what level ? Who collected this data ? Is it publically available for a comparison analysis ? I generally like to see the data before I accept a think tank's analysis.

Assuming the analysis is accurate it is not nessesarilly surprising. Many senators fall into an economic bracket in which private school is affordable. Although I haven't looked at the figures I would wager that those in the higher income brackets tend to have a greater percentage of their kids in private school than the general populous.

That said I don't think the public schools are as horrible as they are made out to be. And instead of providing vouchers so that everyone can send their kids to private schools, which will eventually suffer the same problems, ot would be more feasable to improve the existing public schools and make them into better places to learn.

[KC4RAN]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 17 2007,01:44)]That said I don't think the public schools are as horrible as they are made out to be. #And instead of providing vouchers so that everyone can send their kids to private schools, which will eventually suffer the same problems, #ot would be more feasable to improve the existing public schools and make them into better places to learn.
If parents are given a choice, then schools whose administrators and instructors provide a superior education will draw more students, and those that continually mismanage their infrastructure and fail to educate will see their enrollment drop. Those schools that don't do something to handle the behavioral problems will see parents pulling their 'good' kids out left and right.

Competition is what is needed here. Give parents the ability to decide which school is best for their kid instead of letting the government force them into whichever school fits the agenda of the board.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Oct. 18 2007,01:07)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 17 2007,01:44)]That said I don't think the public schools are as horrible as they are made out to be. #And instead of providing vouchers so that everyone can send their kids to private schools, which will eventually suffer the same problems, #ot would be more feasable to improve the existing public schools and make them into better places to learn.
If parents are given a choice, then schools whose administrators and instructors provide a superior education will draw more students, and those that continually mismanage their infrastructure and fail to educate will see their enrollment drop. Those schools that don't do something to handle the behavioral problems will see parents pulling their 'good' kids out left and right.

Competition is what is needed here. Give parents the ability to decide which school is best for their kid instead of letting the government force them into whichever school fits the agenda of the board.
And how do you accomplish this. They aready have a choice but in most cases can't afford private schools unless the government engages in redistribution. So even if it works you divert some people into private school paid for by government dollars. You still have whatever problems you had with public school, eventually the private schools will be saddled up with the same problems. Private secotor competition is not the answer to all problems. We see it's shortcomings in health care. I still say, if the public schools are broke then fix em.

[KB1KIX]

Ahhh, the same argument as for social medicine.

The government gives you A, but if your wealthy enough - you can have plan B.

One of my IT jobs for a year was teaching in a school. Of course, they blasted the "no child left behind" concept - but for one reason: protecting their own backside.

We should be able to choose. No reason why failing schools should still get students based on demographics.

Then again, this is what you get with socialism - plan A, or plan A, or plan A.

Jonathan

[N5NPO]

Hmmm, Government Dollars.... Either they print them from scratch or they tax the fruit of the labor of it's citizens. If we are a governement by, for and of the people, then there are no govenement dollars. It is the peoples dollars. Why do politicians interested moslty in obtaining and staying in power get to direct our dollars? You work. You labor. You produce a product or service. Governement takes some of your life/time in the form of dollars and re-distributes them to others and they are called by some "government dollars".
When it comes to educating OUR children, we the people, should be allowed to send OUR children and OUR dollars where WE THE PEOPLE choose.

[w3scm]

IZE, in part, I agree. Competition between schools is not an answer and SOME of the problems do migrate into private schools.

However, when you say the answer is to fix the public schools, you assume that they CAN be fixed. #One would take issue with that.

The very nice thing about private schools is that they can kick out disruptive students. #That goes a LONG way to making things work right.

In public schools, you can't kick the little monster out. #They have to send 'em to an "alternative school" (have #to have the euphimism rather than say "program for the disruptive") or pay for home tutoring - both of which cost MORE than keeping them where they are.

Then, the public schools have all sort of absurd mandates like NCLB, which is predicated on the clearly absurd notion that there are no bad people (or students) only failures of authority (the school) to properly motivate them and compensate for their unfortunate environmental and familial deficiencies.

And, in line with that, public schools, like the rest of the liberal world, think that the answer to any systemic problem #is to throw more and more money at it. And to sidetrack scrutiny with such subterfuges as "class size" along with studies that eternally "prove" whatever class size currently exists isn't enough. #Then there is "mainstreaming" and endless jargon and endless "innovation" that in really comports with endless failure. #And of course, there's "student rights". #As though students in elementary and secondary schools are there to exercise rights as citizens instead of learning how to BE citizens.

My daughter did not spend one day in public school and I've never regretted it or the financial sacrifices necessary to accomplish it.

[KG4JYD]

The government should not be in the business of education. Also the federal government is not allowed to be involved in the business of education.

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 18 2007,00:44)]"Children" of up to what age ? Up to what level ? Who collected this data ? Is it publically available for a comparison analysis ? I generally like to see the data before I accept a think tank's analysis.
I think answers to your questions can be found in the citations on this page:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/bg2066.cfm

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Oct. 19 2007,01:45)]The government should not be in the business of education. Also the federal government is not allowed to be involved in the business of education.
I'd much rather have smaller taxes and pay for my sons education.

Can't afford it with my taxes now......

But the government shouldn't be in many businesses.

Education, medicine, trash removal, loans, etc.

We've allowed far too much government intrusion. Unfortunately.... many think it's the governments job to perform these services for us.

Jonathan

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ Oct. 18 2007,23:05)]Quote[/b] (KG4JYD @ Oct. 19 2007,01:45)]The government should not be in the business of education. Also the federal government is not allowed to be involved in the business of education.
I'd much rather have smaller taxes and pay for my sons education.

Can't afford it with my taxes now......

But the government shouldn't be in many businesses.

Education, medicine, trash removal, loans, etc.

We've allowed far too much government intrusion. #Unfortunately.... many think it's the governments job to perform these services for us.

Jonathan
Yeah, we should shut down all government run schools. Then we can proudly say we are the dumbest nation on earth... unless we have accomplished that title already.

Quote[/b] ]
Education, medicine, trash removal, loans, etc.

We've allowed far too much government intrusion. #Unfortunately.... many think it's the governments job to perform these services for us.


Garbage collection is a government intrusion ? I don;t know about you, maybe you enjoy garbage but I kinda like trash removal. Garbage tends to stink and it looks ugly. I like the idea that trash is picked up and wastebaskets are emptied, streets are cleaned, etc. I think it's a good idea. It's a lot nicer now that we have a department of sanitation than back in the days when there was no dept. of sanitation I also like the idea of public education. It's a pretty good deal. Making education available to everyone rich or poor. No longer a need to hire a private governess or a private teacher or set up a 1 room schoolhouse. Public education is what jumps started the middle class and got lots of people throiugh school into college and into good professions. Education is yet another example of good government services. Medicine ? Glad you asked. A public health care program might be a good idea. Fire and police protection is also not so bad.

There is more to government than simply giving tax breaks to the richest persons, running up a huge deficit and starting corrupt war after corrupt war.

[KC4RAN]

Healthcare, who can live without healthcare? And food, we need food too. Shelter, absolutely have to have shelter. Jobs too... need jobs. And childcare. Can't have a society without childcare. And education... gotta educate the kids. And transportation, can't just walk everywhere. And sanitation, yes that too.

Is there anything that the government *doesn't* provide these days?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Oct. 18 2007,23:51)]Healthcare, who can live without healthcare? And food, we need food too. Shelter, absolutely have to have shelter. Jobs too... need jobs. And childcare. Can't have a society without childcare. And education... gotta educate the kids. And transportation, can't just walk everywhere. And sanitation, yes that too.

Is there anything that the government *doesn't* provide these days?
Well don't you think education is important ? Don;t you want Americans to be able to compete in the world and to be able to discover new and interesting things ? Don't you think many Americans have benefitted from public education over the many decades ? I am noticing more and more that the proportion of foriegn students to American students seems to be growing at many schools that I visit, particularly in Mathematics and Science curriculums.

Quote[/b] ]
Is there anything that the government *doesn't* provide these days?


And well they should. The importance of education is unquestionable. And public libraries, what a fantastic resource. A place where anyone,regardless of race , color, creed, nationality, economic status can access research materials, books, multimedia, The Internet, etc. Transportation ? Think about how many people depend on publcic busses, trains, subways, etc to get to work everyday. of course they also collect a fare in most instances.

I certainly see thse provisions as good things. Some of them could stand some improvement but all in all they are quite beneficial and a good return.

[KC4RAN]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 18 2007,01:06)]Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Oct. 18 2007,23:51)]Healthcare, who can live without healthcare? And food, we need food too. Shelter, absolutely have to have shelter. Jobs too... need jobs. And childcare. Can't have a society without childcare. And education... gotta educate the kids. And transportation, can't just walk everywhere. And sanitation, yes that too.

Is there anything that the government *doesn't* provide these days?
Well don't you think education is important ? Don;t you want Americans to be able to compete in the world and to be able to discover new and interesting things ? #Don't you think many Americans have benefitted from public education over the many decades ? #I am noticing more and more that the proportion of foriegn students to American students seems to be growing at many schools that I visit, particularly in Mathematics and Science curriculums.

Quote[/b] ]
Is there anything that the government *doesn't* provide these days?


And well they should. The importance of education is unquestionable. And public libraries, what a fantastic resource. A place where anyone,regardless of race , color, creed, nationality, economic status can access research materials, books, multimedia, The Internet, etc. Transportation ? Think about how many people depend on publcic busses, trains, subways, etc to get to work everyday. of course they also collect a fare in most instances.

I certainly see thse provisions as good things. Some of them could stand some improvement but all in all they are quite beneficial and a good return.
So anything that we "need", the government should provide? Anything we "depend on"?

I guess I depend on my job, and unemployment is bad, it harms people, it causes them to lose their wages and risk "the chil'ren", so now I need a guaranteed job provided by the government. Of course, the wage will be guaranteed by the government, so no reason to worry about trying to perform better. Equal pay for equal work, and we need to have everyone at an equal level.

Also, since everyone needs a job and it's so vital to my well-being, I need to make sure that it's a guaranteed job, so that I can't be fired from it for any reason... like discrimination, or if the business starts performing badly, or if *I* start performing badly, or if I fail a drug test. My kids still need clothes and stuff whether regardless of all that. So it needs to be guaranteed.

And that bus fare? That's just a tax on the poor, because the upper class can afford that bus fare more than I can, so the bus fare needs to be eliminated across the board. And buses don't run everywhere, so we need some government-provided taxicabs, free of course. Transportation is something I depend on daily.

So let's see, so far I have on my list that I need, so the government needs to provide me for free:

1) Healthcare
2) Housing
3) Transportation of all forms
4) Education
5) Libraries
6) Clothing (can't go around nekkid)
7) Employment and wages
8) Water/sewer/sanitation


What about power? That's critical to today's society, nearly everything in today's homes runs off of electricity, so gotta include that. Natural gas or heating oil for heating so we don't freeze in the winter.

How's that looking so far, tovarich?

[KG4JYD]

Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Oct. 19 2007,10:53)]So let's see, so far I have on my list that I need, so the government needs to provide me for free:

1) Healthcare
2) Housing
3) Transportation of all forms
4) Education
5) Libraries
6) Clothing (can't go around nekkid)
7) Employment and wages
8) Water/sewer/sanitation


What about power? That's critical to today's society, nearly everything in today's homes runs off of electricity, so gotta include that. Natural gas or heating oil for heating so we don't freeze in the winter.

How's that looking so far,?
Looks a lot like communism and socialism to me. Oh, and by the way, they don't provide it for free, they take your property and thus your liberty and rights in exchange.

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 19 2007,02:45)]Yeah, we should shut down all government run schools. Then we can proudly say we are the dumbest nation on earth... unless we have accomplished that title already.
Thank you, you prove my point with that statement alone.

You question if we're there already.

So, government run education is doing such a great job, isn't it?

Quote[/b] ]Garbage collection is a government intrusion ? I don;t know about you, maybe you enjoy garbage but I kinda like trash removal. Garbage tends to stink and it looks ugly.

Funny you say that......

Many of my friends where I plan to buy property in New Hampshire are in a town where there is no government trash pickup.

Yep.... the people pay for their own trash hauling. You know what? They are fine with that as long as the taxes are kept at a reasonable level.

You question the quality of healthcare, education, etc. In the current system as failing on so many levels.

Those industries are government regulated - and don't work.

So, yeah, I have no faith in the system.

While we're at it.

Why is it you can so easily support the education system in this country while home and private schooled children far outpace public school educated children in terms of academics?

Jonathan

[al2n]

Do the math.

Last time I looked, the local school district was spending about $4500 per student to attend school.

The average private school costs $3000 a year up here.

The private school kids also score better on the mandated tests.

Getting rid of public education will not cause our kids to be dumb. Private groups will step up to fill the gap at a lower cost with better results.

Some of you guys seem to think that the world will end if the government stops doing everything for us. Sad to see grown men worry about not getting a handout.

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ Oct. 19 2007,18:02)]Some of you guys seem to think that the world will end if the government stops doing everything for us. #Sad to see grown men worry about not getting a handout.
Man....

Seriously....

I wanted to cry when I read this.

It surprises me that a few people actually have common sense!!!

Thanx for restoring my faith in humanity!

Jonathan

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ Oct. 19 2007,15:02)]Do the math.

Last time I looked, the local school district was spending about $4500 per student to attend school.

The average private school costs $3000 a year up here.

The private school kids also score better on the mandated tests.

Getting rid of public education will not cause our kids to be dumb. Private groups will step up to fill the gap at a lower cost with better results.

Some of you guys seem to think that the world will end if the government stops doing everything for us. Sad to see grown men worry about not getting a handout.
Yes, and I pay less than $2,000 a year in property taxes up here in Taxasota. Most of what we buy is exempt from the local and state sales tax, and only a small fraction of what we pay in income tax goes to the schools.

That looks like a real bargain to me.

By cutting the private schools, the Libertarians would effectively raise the cost of sending our kids to school.

But they don't care - the ones who gripe the loudest don't have any kids. Oh, that's right - getting the whole community to pay for something that benefits the country is communism. I forgot.

The constitution makes provision for "the common good", and our founding fathers were also the founders of some of our "government" schools.

I agree that our schools are screwed up. My fellow Democrats will attack me for this, but the teacher's union is a BIG part of the problem. So are those that want to reform the system by killing it. We need to replace PC AND "get tough" with common sense and tolerance in our schools.

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 19 2007,18:58)]By cutting the private schools, the Libertarians would effectively raise the cost of sending our kids to school.
How so?

Private schools now are more effective and cheaper than government run schools.

More kids in private schools buys more staffing.

Your logic doesn't make sense here.

Jonathan