WOMAN LOSES MUSIC DOWNLOAD CASE

[K3XR]

For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. #Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)

[W4DFW]

I'll stick to making MP3's of all my CDs, then burning them to CDs to give to my friends. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Tongue in cheek, of course.

The reality is that the record industry, which treats artists with true respect and integrity (gag me with a spoon) simply can never prevent file sharing anymore than they can prevent me from giving a copy of a tape to my friend. I'm not saying it's right, it just is.

The sooner the record industry learns to exploit this, the better for them. Till then, and until we no longer have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a CD with ONE song worth listening to, I expect this file sharing to go on for quite awhile.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (W4DFW @ Oct. 04 2007,18:54)]I'll stick to making MP3's of all my CDs, then burning them to CDs to give to my friends. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Tongue in cheek, of course.

The reality is that the record industry, which treats artists with true respect and integrity (gag me with a spoon) simply can never prevent file sharing anymore than they can prevent me from giving a copy of a tape to my friend. I'm not saying it's right, it just is. #

The sooner the record industry learns to exploit this, the better for them. #Till then, and until we no longer have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a CD with ONE song worth listening to, I expect this file sharing to go on for quite awhile.
Uh oh !! XR beleives in holding to the exact letter of the law. He's not gonna go for that. You want a copy of that song you already bought on CD you don't go copy it. You BUY a second copy.

[W4DFW]

Uh oh!! I'm screwed!!

[kc0ukk]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...

[KC4RAN]

The only problem I have with this case is the amount. $220,000 for stealing songs that have a retail value of how much? I think it said it was 1700 songs or so.

15 songs per CD average, let's say 115 CDs. At even $18 each, that's only $2070.

100 times markup, that's a little steep for me. And of course, how much of that $2070 would the artist see?

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The funny thing is that most of the music I like was recorded in analog.
One can find better quality than the record labels can provide on the web.
That must sound odd, but the master is never used to cut a record.
The master is used to create a mix.
From the mix a stamper is made.
The stamper itself gets copied.
From there, records are pressed.
The stamper wears, so depending on where in the cycle you are, your brand new record may already be worn.
Now, 2007, a new era.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide
I am something of an exception, I really do not like most singers, so I can do most stuff with MIDI.
We are not talking MIDI as in something run on your $1.98 sound card, no, I mean Musical Instrument Digital Interface, like in a real piano and organ type of MIDI.
The music, live, not a recording.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 04 2007,21:00)]Quote[/b] (W4DFW @ Oct. 04 2007,18:54)]I'll stick to making MP3's of all my CDs, then burning them to CDs to give to my friends. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Tongue in cheek, of course.

The reality is that the record industry, which treats artists with true respect and integrity (gag me with a spoon) simply can never prevent file sharing anymore than they can prevent me from giving a copy of a tape to my friend. I'm not saying it's right, it just is.

The sooner the record industry learns to exploit this, the better for them. Till then, and until we no longer have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for a CD with ONE song worth listening to, I expect this file sharing to go on for quite awhile.
Uh oh !! XR beleives in holding to the exact letter of the law. He's not gonna go for that. You want a copy of that song you already bought on CD you don't go copy it. You BUY a second copy.
The exact letter of the law is that you are allowed to make a backup copy for your own personal use (fair use was decided 25 years ago when Sony lost). You aren't allowed to rip the music from CD's and "share" them on the net.

If the woman could have proven she paid for each and every song, either through producing an original CD or receipts for legal downloads it wouldn't have been a problem.

[W1GUH]

'XR's an obselete robot. Nothing new here. Move along.

[n2ize]

Actually the whole process used to catch people sharing these files straddles a grey area of the law. It also does not guarantee accuracy. Numerous people have been "caught" by the RIAA who didn't even own a computer, had never been on the Internet, were dead, etc.

Furthermore, if you run any kind of a network, wireless or wired, make sure your network is tightly secured and make sure you know what kind of traffic is passing through it at all times. An improperly secured or cracked wireless network, or an unguarded ethernet jack in a remote area, etc. as someone could use such a connection to share music and the RIAA will take you to court over itand sue that daylights out of you despite the fact that you didn't even know anyone was using your network. Turn off all unused wireless devices, disable all unused hard wired ethernet connections (physically if need be) and make sure you know exactly who is using your network and exactly what they are doing 24/7/365. One innocent mistake could put these corporate extortionists on your back pronto.

That said the odds that they are going to catch any given file sharer is quite small. But why take chances ? If you need to download music why not download stuff by independent musicians who support file sharing, are not chained to the recording extortionists, and look to file sharing as a model for distribution and popularity. yeah I know because indy artists suck. Well, some do but there are lots of good ones out there waiting to be heard. Until the RIAA catches up with reality why not give them a listen ?

[KG6QHK]

What gets me in this whole thing is that thing about the music getting onto the HDD in a short period of time, and the RIAA citing that as proof that the songs were downloaded. That, my friends, is a big load of POPPYCOCK!

I have on my machine, a nice proggy called Easy CD/DA Extractor, which allows me to rip entire CDs, or even select tracks from the CD. If I pull an all-nighter, and my CD-R drive lets me get away with it, I can rip in excess of 600 songs in eight hours...

The MISTAKE is not in the downloading, it's in the UPLOADING / SHARING. Illegal distribution of copyrighted material implies that one is "distributing" said material. If I simply download a song from a network such as kazaa or limewire, I haven't "distributed" squat.

I'm not advocating breaking the law here, I'm just stating what SHOULD be the obvious.

[n7zsd]

QHK, you beat me to it! That's ok, you said it better than I could anyway!

[al2i]

The multinational media companies are supposed to steal from both artists and their fans. That is what makes really big companies so important.

[K2WH]

I have never ever copied a CD of any sort for any purpose. Then again, I don't need to.

K2WH (Neocon)

[W0UZR]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Oct. 04 2007,19:48)]For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. #Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)
A friend of mine said that if he was on the jury, he would have said not guilty.

I asked him why, and he said that these outfits have plenty enough money. And if the record outfits didn't want anyone to download their music, then they shouldn't put them on the internet.

[KG6QHK]

Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Oct. 05 2007,06:42)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Oct. 04 2007,19:48)]For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. #Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)
A friend of mine said that if he was on the jury, he would have said not guilty.

I asked him why, and he said that these outfits have plenty enough money. #And if the record outfits didn't want anyone to download their music, then they shouldn't # put # them on the internet.
Um, maybe you missed the point here, or don't understand how this music even GETS onto the Internet. It's NOT the record companies that are putting the tracks (mp3, m4a, acc, etc) on the net, it's normal, everyday people like you and me. Here's how it works:

SOMEONE on the net has music that they have already either downloaded from the web, or ripped from a source and turned into a file format such as those named above. This same person also has a file-sharing program, such as Kazaa, Limewire, or Bearshare. In this program, there is a specified location for the library of shared files. Whenever this person fires up the program, it automatically makes their files (the ones specified as shared in the program settings!) available for referencing and downloading by other users on the same network.

So in effect, if you have these things in place, and someone searches for a song file that you incidentally have in that shared library, they could concievably download the file from you, and you in effect, become the "uploader", sometimes without even knowing that this is going on, because uploading / sharing happens in the background of the program.

[KD7ZRT]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 04 2007,22:50)]Actually the whole process used to catch people sharing these files straddles a grey area of the law. It also does not guarantee accuracy. Numerous people have been "caught" by the RIAA who didn't even own a computer, had never been on the Internet, were dead, etc.
Andersen v. Atlantic (http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDFfull.asp?filename=andersen_riaa_070622co mplaint)

The entire document is worth reading, but if you just want the really juicy bits scroll down and read 5.31-5.35.

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, if you run any kind of a network, wireless or wired, make sure your network is tightly secured and make sure you know what kind of traffic is passing through it at all times. An improperly secured or cracked wireless network, or an unguarded ethernet jack in a remote area, etc. as someone could use such a connection to share music and the RIAA will take you to court over itand sue that daylights out of you despite the fact that you didn't even know anyone was using your network. Turn off all unused wireless devices, disable all unused hard wired ethernet connections (physically if need be) and make sure you know exactly who is using your network and exactly what they are doing 24/7/365. One innocent mistake could put these corporate extortionists on your back pronto.

This is what really scares me about these lawsuits... An IP address identifies, at best, a node and not an individual. From my 12th floor window with a cheap 10dBi antenna I can see over 120 access points. Many are completely open, and those that aren't are secured with WEP, which is only good enough to keep your friends out.

Quote[/b] ]That said the odds that they are going to catch any given file sharer is quite small. But why take chances ? If you need to download music why not download stuff by independent musicians who support file sharing, are not chained to the recording extortionists, and look to file sharing as a model for distribution and popularity. yeah I know because indy artists suck. Well, some do but there are lots of good ones out there waiting to be heard. Until the RIAA catches up with reality why not give them a listen ?

Agreed. There are some great independent bands out there--Jim's Big Ego, Pink Martini, and Ozomatli to name a few--that aren't on RIAA labels. And then of course there's the huge library of independent music from CD Baby (http://www.cdbaby.com).

An interesting side effect of the RIAA's extortion tactics has been that now I'm forced to consider whether I'm acting unethically any time I purchase an album from an RIAA label. I don't see any way around the fact that by purchasing their product I am supporting these lawsuits, and so the number of CDs I've purchased in recent years has been distinctly trivial compared to times past.

Its also worth noting that many local libraries have excellent selections of music CDs available for checkout. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kq9j]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Oct. 04 2007,18:48)]For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)
And you are so happy about it you just HAD to post it. You are a strange duck, XR.

Once the music industry comes up with a viable, useful alternative to the free filesharing systems that offers the variety and depth of the libraries available out there, and charges a reasonable fee for access, I would say to them go for it and nab all the people who refuse to pay.

As it is, you can hardly blame people. And just making a blanket statement that it is "illegal" does not justify this large of a monetary penalty.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Oct. 05 2007,06:42)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Oct. 04 2007,19:48)]For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)
A friend of mine said that if he was on the jury, he would have said not guilty.

I asked him why, and he said that these outfits have plenty enough money. And if the record outfits didn't want anyone to download their music, then they shouldn't put them on the internet.
How does an individual decide that a company has enough money and shouldn't make any more? How does this individual decide to close down a company that isn't his, that he doesn't work for, and put many people out of work, simply because he thinks "ah, they have enough money?"

Odd is hardly the word for that kind of thinking.

Ed

[W5HTW]

The solution to free music stealing is to start at the source. Have the musicians refuse to make any money. The songwriters should do it for free. They can work washing dishes in a cafe while writing their songs. The musicians that record can work in McDonald's for enough money to go pay for the recording session, their travel, their instruments, the record pressings, the distribution, and all other expenses. They have enough money. They don't need to earn any money. Make it all free. Make a law that says artists of any kind are prohibited from earning a living at it. Of course, this might close down a few thousand galleries. It would certainly shut down that evil RIAA.

Musicians could simply record in their basements, if they could steal instruments from pawn shops, and then upload the music to the internet.

Writers could write just one book, and post it on the web, and then everyone could just download the book for free. No more publishing houses. No more printing companies.

Pretty simple. Take away the profit in creative arts, and all those artists will pay their own costs and just give away their works.

Let 'er rip
Ed

[KA5LQJ]

Gentlemen,

Allow me to introduce something into this mix. #The Recording Industry is run by the Mafia, as well as the Entertainment Industry, Movies, etc. #Back in the 50's, when Rock-n-Roll was at the height of it's heyady, lots of artist recorded 45's and 33LP's that were sold, but the artist rarely received the royalties they were promised. #This was due to fees the Recording Industry charged the artist. #

How many artist since have died broke & penniless, still sueing the RIAA for royalties owed them? #It's no different today. #The big name recording artist, take what they are given and if they are smart enough, invest it in other things to create other income, by licensing products.

IF the money I paid for a cd went TO the artist, to pay for their services, expenses, etc., I'd gladly pony up. #However, I won't pay nearly twenty dollars for just one song on a cd, period.

I'm hoping that one day, some website, will make the regular and old-time artist...Country & Western, Classical, Bluegrass, Opera, Native American, Jazz, etc. available, legally free and unlimited downloads for a monthly fee. #(How can the RIAA go after someone for downloading Bach or other dead Classical artist? #They don't HAVE a contract with them, OR their family members, they are dead as well!) I would have an extensive music library for my personal listening pleasure and be on a computer NOT hooked to the I-Net in any way, essentially a juke-box. #Now, with this computer, I would have pictures that are freely downloadable from the I-net...mountains, valley's, canyons, cloud formations, sunrises, sunsets, moon phases, animals, birds, pictures from the Hubble and space, etc. that would be set to this music in a sort of changing screensaver. #Make sense? #This would run while I was in the radio room for my pleasure. #Oh, I'm gonna have a soft, comfy chair to sleep in too, LOL! #Until then, the Mafia won't get one penny of my money and I will buy directly from the artist.

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking too it.

Respectfully,
73,

Don/KA5-LQJ
Downtown Cedar Grove, LA.

[k9kxq]

I never copy songs from the internet, I have a membership with BMG and the specials are sometimes 3 for free when you buy one.

I love music and have a respect for copyrights,also play the guitar and have three in my home two 12 string acoustics, one an Ovation Celebrity, the other a Gibson, my six string is an Ovation Celebrity from the 80's...

I feel the fine is way to harsh for this woman and that's my take...

kxq

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (KA5LQJ @ Oct. 07 2007,11:03)]#(How can the RIAA go after someone for downloading Bach or other dead Classical artist? #They don't HAVE a contract with them, OR their family members, they are dead as well!)
The are going after the downloading of specific recordings by specific performers. A recording of a piece of music carries several copyrights. The copyright to the composer (Bach) is separate from the copyright of the performer and performance (say New York Philharmonic Christmas album).

Bach's music is in the public domain. The New York Philharmonic's performance of that music is not.

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (KA5LQJ @ Oct. 07 2007,11:03)]IF the money I paid for a cd went TO the artist, to pay for their services, expenses, etc., I'd gladly pony up. #However, I won't pay nearly twenty dollars for just one song on a cd, period.
Then by law you must do without. You have no right to download or copy that song no matter what the situation is between the artists, producers, and record companies.

[al2i]

Since I have known several active-duty guys returning from Iraq I find it interesting that they have many bootleg copies of American movies and music that they have bought in local shops.

[al2n]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Oct. 05 2007,06:04)]I have never ever copied a CD of any sort for any purpose. Then again, I don't need to.

K2WH (Neocon)
It is a good idea to make copies of your operating systems.

I always make a back up copy of the latest version of Windows and use the copy rather than risk scratching up the original. It would suck to scratch a CD worth $120.

As for music downloading, there are lots of places to legally download singles these days. Most cost a dollar a song or less.

Of course the easy way to get cheap music is to go to a pawn shop. Most have a huge selection of CD's covering most any style of music. For a buck or two a CD, it is a great deal.

[W4DFW]

It strikes me as odd that the music industry doesn't seem to mind that I can "download" music from a source that has been around for nearly a century, BROADCAST RADIO!!

It ain't hard to record the music, then burn it to a CD. I still get the song I want, only I don't have to "download" it from the internet. I can get it over the air!!

Of course, you better not try to sell those CDs or you will get wacked!

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (kq9j @ Oct. 07 2007,08:42)]Once the music industry comes up with a viable, useful alternative to the free filesharing systems that offers the variety and depth of the libraries available out there, and charges a reasonable fee for access, I would say to them go for it and nab all the people who refuse to pay.

As it is, you can hardly blame people. And just making a blanket statement that it is "illegal" does not justify this large of a monetary penalty.
Of course you can!

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>IT'S THEFT!!</span></span>

But since you aren't being ripped off it's no big deal right?
I assume you feel the same about corporations getting nailed for ridiculous amounts of money in punitive damages, hot coffee ring a bell?

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Oct. 07 2007,18:04)]Quote[/b] (kq9j @ Oct. 07 2007,08:42)]Once the music industry comes up with a viable, useful alternative to the free filesharing systems that offers the variety and depth of the libraries available out there, and charges a reasonable fee for access, I would say to them go for it and nab all the people who refuse to pay.

As it is, you can hardly blame people. And just making a blanket statement that it is &quot;illegal&quot; does not justify this large of a monetary penalty.
Of course you can!

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>IT'S THEFT!!</span></span>

But since you aren't being ripped off it's no big deal right?
I assume you feel the same about corporations getting nailed for ridiculous amounts of money in punitive damages, hot coffee ring a bell?
The real story about the &quot;hot coffee&quot; incident long ago. There is a reason why the lawsuit was so high. I saw this on 60 minutes many years ago:

Woman ordered coffee at McDonalds at the drive through. I forget where. As the coffee was being handed to her the coffee slipped out of the workers hand and landed in the lady's lap. She suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns on her legs. After getting medical treatment she brought the bill to the McDonalds manager and the manager had her thrown out of the McDonalds. After going to a lawyer they figured they'd hit McDonalds for PUNITIVE damages. That is why they got sued millions over hot coffee. One for dropping it on her. Two for causing harm to her to the point she needed medical treatment. Three for being complete jerks when asked to take responsibility.

McDonalds got what they deserved.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Oct. 07 2007,20:19)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Oct. 07 2007,18:04)]Quote[/b] (kq9j @ Oct. 07 2007,08:42)]Once the music industry comes up with a viable, useful alternative to the free filesharing systems that offers the variety and depth of the libraries available out there, and charges a reasonable fee for access, I would say to them go for it and nab all the people who refuse to pay.

As it is, you can hardly blame people. And just making a blanket statement that it is &quot;illegal&quot; does not justify this large of a monetary penalty.
Of course you can!

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>IT'S THEFT!!</span></span>

But since you aren't being ripped off it's no big deal right?
I assume you feel the same about corporations getting nailed for ridiculous amounts of money in punitive damages, hot coffee ring a bell?
The real story about the &quot;hot coffee&quot; incident long ago. There is a reason why the lawsuit was so high. I saw this on 60 minutes many years ago:

Woman ordered coffee at McDonalds at the drive through. I forget where. As the coffee was being handed to her the coffee slipped out of the workers hand and landed in the lady's lap. She suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns on her legs. After getting medical treatment she brought the bill to the McDonalds manager and the manager had her thrown out of the McDonalds. After going to a lawyer they figured they'd hit McDonalds for PUNITIVE damages. That is why they got sued millions over hot coffee. One for dropping it on her. Two for causing harm to her to the point she needed medical treatment. Three for being complete jerks when asked to take responsibility.

McDonalds got what they deserved.
Ahhh, but a couple hundred grand in punitive damages for a music thief is unreasonable?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (W4DFW @ Oct. 07 2007,17:10)]It strikes me as odd that the music industry doesn't seem to mind that I can &quot;download&quot; music from a source that has been around for nearly a century, BROADCAST RADIO!!

It ain't hard to record the music, then burn it to a CD. #I still get the song I want, only I don't have to &quot;download&quot; it from the internet. #I can get it over the air!!

Of course, you better not try to sell those CDs or you will get wacked!
If there was such a thing as an IP address for a broadcast radio the RIAA would love to extort money from people &quot;downloading illegal music&quot; from their FM/AM radios.

[n2ize]

Since music is so precious and sharing it is such a terrible crime I think the recording companies should take no chances. They should take all that precious music, lock it up in a tightly sealed and heavily guarded vault within an impenatrable fortress, and they should keep it in their forever and release it to nobody for any reason. The movie industry should do likewise.
The end result. No more bad movies and no more lousy music. And just imagine, instead of listening to some Rap &quot;artist&quot; blathering away at how &quot;bad&quot; he is people might start doing other things, like reading and thinking. Might even end up with a better idea of what is going on in this world today.

Or even better, why don't people simply leave the music on the record store shelves and the movies at the box office. Do that for a week and the recording companies will come begging on their hands and knees begging people to start downloading music again... Anything to get interested and get them buying.

Either scenario would be great opportunity for independent musicians and film producers (who produce some of the best stuff IMHO). It also may jumpstart people into using their brains for a change.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KD7ZRT @ Oct. 06 2007,23:51)]
Quote[/b] ]
Andersen v. Atlantic (http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDFfull.asp?filename=andersen_riaa_070622co mplaint)

The entire document is worth reading, but if you just want the really juicy bits scroll down and read 5.31-5.35.


Very interesting reading. Thanks. I would advise everone who has any interest in this topic to dowload and read this case.

Quote[/b] ]
Its also worth noting that many local libraries have excellent selections of music CDs available for checkout. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Not only music CD's but commercial movie DVD's as well. You can borrow them, watch them. Of course you cannot copy them because that would be a violation of the DMCA. Fair use dictates that it is legal to copy a DVD for archival purposes. Yet to copy a commercial DVD you would need to circumvent the copy protection and thus be in violation of the DMCA.
Wonder which law &quot;fair use&quot; or the &quot;DMCA&quot; trumps the other ? Well just imagine which one would favor the corporations stance on the issue. That's the one that will win in a USA court.

Quote[/b] ]
This is what really scares me about these lawsuits... An IP address identifies, at best, a node and not an individual. From my 12th floor window with a cheap 10dBi antenna I can see over 120 access points. Many are completely open, and those that aren't are secured with WEP, which is only good enough to keep your friends out.


Now just imagine someone connecting to and piggybacking one of those networks and running Kazaa or some other filesharing tool. The person runs it for a week, a month, etc. Unless the owner of the wireless network notices a performance degradation or the heavy traffic he/she would have no idea that there is an intruder on her network running Kazaa. Most consumer users are not very saavy and probably won't notice. Nor would they be adept in blocking Kazaa from their network. The filesharing goes on for months. Mediasentry captures the ip address. The owner of the network ends up in court and winds up owing the extortionists a few hundred thousand dollars. Meanwhile piggybacker who was doing the actual file sharing is laughing his butt off, enjoying his music as he finds himself another sucker network to use.

The moral ? If you run any type of network be saavy. learn how to block Kazaa, Gnutella, etc. into oblivion.Lock down your network tight as a drum. Religiously monitor it's traffic. You simply cannot afford to be a clueless consumer. Running even a simple home network is a serious major
responsibility. Become an expert or don't do it at all.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 08 2007,11:38)]If there was such a thing as an IP address for a broadcast radio the RIAA would love to extort money from people &quot;downloading illegal music&quot; from their FM/AM radios.
Don't worry. They are trying that, too.

With the advent of IBOC digital broadcasting there has been serious discussion within the broadcast industry of the pros and cons of mandating copy protection to the digital audio stream. This is something RIAA is lobbying hard for.

I don't understand why there is such a big deal about copying &quot;digital&quot; music, while it's OK to copy analogue audio off the radio, LP's or cassettes. Most of the digital streams I have heard off the internet are lucky to be cassette tape quality. MP3's are NOT CD quality.

The popular computer programs that allow you to save streaming audio from internet radio stations do not actually download and save the digital stream. They convert the analogue audio from your sound card back to digital and save that to the HDD.

Last time I was in Circuit City they had what looked like an ordinary record turntable, except that it had a USB plug at the end of the cable. It sold for about $100, including a software CD. It was designed to allow you to convert your vinyl discs to CD's. This software could take any analogue audio content, convert it to digital, and burn it onto a CD.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 08 2007,14:04)]
Quote[/b] ]
Don't worry. #They are trying that, too.

With the advent of IBOC digital broadcasting there has been serious discussion within the broadcast industry of the pros and cons of mandating copy protection to the digital audio stream. #This is something RIAA is lobbying #hard for.


Hollywood and the record companies have been coming up with schemes to &quot;plug the analog hole&quot; for a while. One idea was watermarking techniques. Unfoortunately for them it is extremely hard to plug any &quot;analog leaks&quot; because in order to see / hear the content it must revert back to an analog signal somewhere. There is always some place you can tap into the analog signal, even right at the speaker terminals if need be. One guy even said that given a good sound system and a good hi fi microphonium and proper surrounding acoustics you can put the mikes in front of the speakers and make a pretty darned good sounding recording that can then be digitized. Of course once it's digitized there is no longer and degradation of quality per copy. Until hollywood figures a way to makeour eyes and ears digital there will always be a way to record.

Quote[/b] ]
I don't understand why there is such a big deal about copying &quot;digital&quot; music, while it's OK to copy analogue audio off the radio, LP's #or cassettes. #Most of the digital streams I have heard off the internet are lucky to be cassette tape quality. #MP3's are NOT CD quality.


largely because they're dumb. I guess because there is no degradation per copy so they figure once digitally distributed in pristine or near pristine form then always.

Quote[/b] ]
The popular computer programs that allow you to save streaming audio from internet radio stations do not actually download and save the digital stream. #They convert the analogue audio from your sound card back to digital and save that to the HDD.


There are some that will save the stream directly.

Quote[/b] ]
Last time I was in Circuit City they had what looked like an ordinary record turntable, except that it had a USB plug at the end of the cable. #It sold for about $100, including a software CD. #It was designed to allow you to convert your vinyl discs to CD's. #This software could take any analogue audio content, convert it to digital, and burn it onto a CD.


I set up the equivalent of that for my Father.He has a large collection of classical music on LP's and would like to digitize it. So I just took the stereo line output from his sound system and ran it into the line input of the sound card. Then set him up with a little &quot;recording studio&quot; program. He can record, label, edit, and do virtually whatever he likes. It works great.

[K0RGR]

I doubt that I would ever vote to convict someone of stealing music over the Internet, unless it was shown that they were downloading the songs and burning copies for their buddies.
It is simply too easy to get yourself hooked onto one of the big file sharing networks, unless you've done your homework and installed anti-virus and anti-spyware tools. We'll see how Windows Defender does - I'm using it on one of my computers that has been infected with Jukebox , Kazaa, and other such garbage many times. My kids are more mature, and stopped downloading any music they haven't paid for years ago. But every so often, I find one of those things has crept back in, despite anti-spyware code. The only music service we use is iTunes.

[al2i]

Any new technology must be crippled or controlled to insure continued profitability of international media distribution corporations who provide nothing of human value in the modern environment but continue to steal from artists and fans while acting as gate-keepers to legitimacy.

[KC9JIQ]

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Oct. 07 2007,09:30)]Quote[/b] (KA5LQJ @ Oct. 07 2007,11:03)]IF the money I paid for a cd went TO the artist, to pay for their services, expenses, etc., I'd gladly pony up. #However, I won't pay nearly twenty dollars for just one song on a cd, period.
Then by law you must do without. #You have no right to download or copy that song no matter what the situation is between the artists, producers, and record companies.
See the thing is what do you get when you buy a product?

You USED to get this really cool album, stickers and all sorts of &quot;kiss army&quot; stuff http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif That is impossible to reproduce, but the music today is just somthing on a CD, on a little 5x5 plastic case!

...your just buying the thing for the music, and to boot CD's are crappy at reproducing music, all my 78's sound better than ANY music CD, Audio DVD's I have not, but they are suposed to get the highest quality &quot;vynl&quot; sound without the pops and hisses. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

and are you not &quot;reproducing&quot; the music every time you play it?

So what is the solution? Give the public MORE than just the music, just like the 78's albums did!

But I fear the music industry will go thru what the software makers are going thru right now, activation,registration, keys, codes and all sorts of hoops just to USE what you BOUGHT. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Oct. 05 2007,09:42)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Oct. 04 2007,19:48)]For those that think there is nothing wrong with the theft of property in the form of illegally copying music. #Try coming up with $222,000.00.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories....6.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/04/national/printable3330186.shtml)
A friend of mine said that if he was on the jury, he would have said not guilty.

...And if the record outfits didn't want anyone to download their music, then they shouldn't # put # them on the internet.
Well, duh!

(And, something we can agree on!)

-gary

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (W4DFW @ Oct. 07 2007,20:10)]It strikes me as odd that the music industry doesn't seem to mind that I can &quot;download&quot; music from a source that has been around for nearly a century, BROADCAST RADIO!!

It ain't hard to record the music, then burn it to a CD. #I still get the song I want, only I don't have to &quot;download&quot; it from the internet. #I can get it over the air!!

Of course, you better not try to sell those CDs or you will get wacked!
Try a comparison sometime. #Get two CD players and put your recording of the radio station in one and an original CD of the same songs in the other and A-B compare them. #The audio processing that radio stations add to their audio makes some CDs almost unrecognizable.

An alternative method would be to make really good audio tape recordings of the CDs you want, and burn CDs from that tape. #This will offer you a much more accurate rendition of the original CD. #Of course, this method is only practical if the source CDs are DRMed or copy protected making direct digital of the CDs difficult or impossible.

The issue that the music industry has is this: #Let us say you make a cassette tape of a song or an album and give it to a friend. #A friend of his likes the music and makes a dub from your friend's cassette. #Maybe this person thus shares the music with yet someone else. #By this time the audio is getting a little funky sounding. #And, each dub requires that the previous generation tape be physically right there to be copied.

With digitized music these problems are overcome. #A copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy can sound identical to the original, with no audio degradation. #In addition, the copies can be shared among friends essentially instantly, endlessly, and across vast distances. #

-gary

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 08 2007,21:28)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 08 2007,14:04)]The popular computer programs that allow you to save streaming audio from internet radio stations do not actually download and save the digital stream. They convert the analogue audio from your sound card back to digital and save that to the HDD.

There are some that will save the stream directly.

Do you know the names of the programs and where can you find them to download? If they aren't freeware, how expensive are they?

I was under the impression that WMP and RealPlayer had some kind of proprietary encryption scheme embedded in their software that no-one has been able to hack yet.

[VE3HBD]

Quote[/b] (KG6QHK @ Oct. 04 2007,22:57)]What gets me in this whole thing is that thing about the music getting onto the HDD in a short period of time, and the RIAA citing that as proof that the songs were downloaded. That, my friends, is a big load of POPPYCOCK!

I have on my machine, a nice proggy called Easy CD/DA Extractor, which allows me to rip entire CDs, or even select tracks from the CD. If I pull an all-nighter, and my CD-R drive lets me get away with it, I can rip in excess of 600 songs in eight hours...

The MISTAKE is not in the downloading, it's in the UPLOADING / SHARING. Illegal distribution of copyrighted material implies that one is &quot;distributing&quot; said material. If I simply download a song from a network such as kazaa or limewire, I haven't &quot;distributed&quot; squat.

I'm not advocating breaking the law here, I'm just stating what SHOULD be the obvious.
Nicely put - especially in a thread started by someone who doesn't really understand the topic.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 08 2007,18:25)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Oct. 08 2007,21:28)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 08 2007,14:04)]The popular computer programs that allow you to save streaming audio from internet radio stations do not actually download and save the digital stream. #They convert the analogue audio from your sound card back to digital and save that to the HDD.

There are some that will save the stream directly.

Do you know the names of the programs and where can you find them to download? #If they aren't freeware, how expensive are they?

I was under the impression that WMP and RealPlayer had some kind of proprietary encryption scheme embedded in their software that no-one has been able to hack yet.
Have a look at some of these

Link (http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/all-streaming-video-recording-software.htm#recmp)

Some of them may be able to do a direct capture. Capturing streams can be tricky as some are protected/drm'ed, etc.

Often it is more convenient to covert and save the stream rather than save the raw stream.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (VE3HBD @ Oct. 09 2007,01:36)]Quote[/b] (KG6QHK @ Oct. 04 2007,22:57)]What gets me in this whole thing is that thing about the music getting onto the HDD in a short period of time, and the RIAA citing that as proof that the songs were downloaded. That, my friends, is a big load of POPPYCOCK!

The MISTAKE is not in the downloading, it's in the UPLOADING / SHARING. Illegal distribution of copyrighted material implies that one is &quot;distributing&quot; said material. If I simply download a song from a network such as kazaa or limewire, I haven't &quot;distributed&quot; squat.

I'm not advocating breaking the law here, I'm just stating what SHOULD be the obvious.
Nicely put - especially in a thread started by someone who doesn't really understand the topic.
Perhaps if you wish to (legally or illegally) copy or download a bunch of songs, or any other type of computer file that someone might call into question, the safest way would be to save them on one of those little key-chain sized usb flash drives. I just purchased a 1 gig unit the other day for $16.00. If you ever felt seriously threatened by the mere possession of those files, it would be an easy matter, as a last resort, to smash the flashdrive to smithereens with a hammer, flush it down the toilet, or drop it off a bridge over the deepest part of the river, or just hide it some place where no-one could ever find it.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 09 2007,13:03)]it would be an easy matter, as a last resort, to smash the flashdrive to smithereens with a hammer, flush it down the toilet, or drop it off a bridge over the deepest part of the river, or just hide it some place where no-one could ever find it.
This lends itself to visual images best not addressed here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K0RGR]

I do feel sorry for the music industry. They are getting hosed.
My son really wants to get into music production or marketing, and I keep telling him not to quit his day job - the odds of his making a living in the industry are pretty tiny. It's too bad - he's got a lot of talent.

I do consider sharing albums over the net to be stealing. My point is that I still believe it can happen without your knowledge, and it would take a great deal of evidence to convince me that someone had done it deliberately.

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 09 2007,13:19)]I do feel sorry for the music industry. They are getting hosed.
My son really wants to get into music production or marketing, and I keep telling him not to quit his day job - the odds of his making a living in the industry are pretty tiny. It's too bad - he's got a lot of talent.
The odds of &quot;making it&quot; in the music industry have always been poor.

[KC9JIQ]

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Oct. 09 2007,12:19)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 09 2007,13:19)]I do feel sorry for the music industry. They are getting hosed.
My son really wants to get into music production or marketing, and I keep telling him not to quit his day job - the odds of his making a living in the industry are pretty tiny. It's too bad - he's got a lot of talent.
The odds of &quot;making it&quot; in the music industry have always been poor.
Anyone heard the news about the LED Zeppelin concert?

You better not put thoes tickets on ePay, and better use YOUR credit card to purchase them. #Slick and I really like it, eBay is just legalized ticket scalping, and I am glad Goldsmith is doing somthing about it.

“I wish eBay would drop dead and die... I have begged them to take (the tickets) off and they have basically told us to….. So I will do everything I possibly can to ruin their lives&quot;

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KC9JIQ @ Oct. 09 2007,15:25)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Oct. 09 2007,12:19)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 09 2007,13:19)]I do feel sorry for the music industry. They are getting hosed.
My son really wants to get into music production or marketing, and I keep telling him not to quit his day job - the odds of his making a living in the industry are pretty tiny. It's too bad - he's got a lot of talent.
The odds of &quot;making it&quot; in the music industry have always been poor.
Anyone heard the news about the LED Zeppelin concert?

You better not put thoes tickets on ePay, and better use YOUR credit card to purchase them. #Slick and I really like it, eBay is just legalized ticket scalping, and I am glad Goldsmith is doing somthing about it.

&amp;#8220;I wish eBay would drop dead and die... I have begged them to take (the tickets) off and they have basically told us to&amp;#8230;.. So I will do everything I possibly can to ruin their lives&quot;
Okay. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif