Melting Pot Malfunction?

[wv6z]

As an agnostic, and an immigrant, although admittedly white, middle classed and a speaker of the English language, I am having a hard time understanding the apparent cessation of the 'Melting Pot'.

Is it because those who immigrate here now don't see the desire to be a part of the American culture that those of us who have come here in the past saw or what? Is there that much inherent evil in Santa Claus, Jack-O-Lanterns and the Easter Bunny or are new immigrants planning to swap the ol' Melting Pot phenomenon with their own prejudiced religiously motivated agenda? If so, what was it in 'our' obviously unattractive blended culture that motivated them to come here in the first place? It seems to me that if on the list of places to move to were places that my family had not found 'similar and or socially acceptable or tolerable', they would have been stricken from the list long before we had moved here.

I guess I am just too thick to understand why people would ever move to a place that is deemed intolerable or unacceptable to begin with.

Is the Melting Pot gone forever, or does it need to be put on the front burner?

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Oct. 04 2007,09:33)]Is the Melting Pot gone forever, or does it need to be put on the front burner?
Gone forever and there seem to be plenty of people happy to see it gone, so be it *shrug*

[W5HTW]

It is now the "Get your own chunk of America" pot. Do NOT assimilate. Turn this into where you left, along with the reasons you left there.

America has been conquered.

Ed

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Oct. 04 2007,10:04)]America has been conquered.
It would seem so...
Coarse those that favor this change will just say you are paranoid, all is well... Sure take some more Soma...

[ac4ut]

It is the same agenda now as before. My way is better!
It happened to the natives Americans and will evolve again to who knows what.
However it is no sin to resist change and I will fight to the end.
Early settler killed thousands so we could have European culture in the US.
I want to keep my manifest destiny and my Easter Bunny.

[WA6MHZ]

Since those 3 holidays are oriented to Christian holydays (Halloween is the day before ALL SAINTS day) and the Liberals are very anti-Christian and Pro Muslim, and the Liberals all run the schools, we can celebrate all Muslim holy days but forget about Christmas and Easter anymore. They have been deleted! Oh, can't forget about Kawanza. Still OK to celebrate that, and Winter Solstice for the Witches and Warlocks.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Oct. 04 2007,07:04)]It is now the "Get your own chunk of America" pot. #Do NOT assimilate. # Turn this into where you left, along with the reasons you left there.

America has been conquered.

Ed
It depends what you mean by "assimilate". #Why should immigrants" assimilate' and to what should they "assimilate" to ? What culture is the proper culture of assimilation thatr defines an immigrant as assimilated ?
Perhaps they should assimilate to Native American culture ? English culture ? Italian ? Chinese ? #Dutch ? German ? Seems to me all these are viable American cultures. In essence America has no national culture so what is there to assimilate to ? Also, what degree of assimilation is nessesary ?

Immigrants often tended to bond together in groups and into neighborhoods where they held fast to many of their customs, langauge, etc. #Come to New York and you'll find neighborhoods that are predominantly Irish, Italian, Hispanic, Russian, Carribean, etc. and in these neighborhoods you will find tremendous level of adherance to their native country #cultures including manner of dress, predominant langauge, etc. Not to mention neighborhoods like "Chinatown", "Little italy", etc. named distinctly for the culture which predominates. #Talk about lack of assimilation. Yet at the same time I see nothing wrong with this.Must a person assimilate to the point of diluting their original culture to a point in which it is either forgotten or unrecognizable ? Why can't America exist as a multicultural nation, which is what it always is/was ?
I see no more lack of assimilation today than there seemed to be in years gone by. America is only "conquered" is we sudenly feel a need to define it as a #monolithic monoculture which it never was.

[K4GUN]

I don't know what happened to the melting pot idea. People like to point to New York City as a melting pot, but that is a complete fabrication. NYC seems to this outsider, to be more racially segregated, divided and tense as any place I've ever seen. I've never heard so many people talk about "them". Even in rural areas of the South, I haven't heard so many racial, religious and ethnic divisions discussed. Just because they are living side by side, doesn't mean they've melted.

The melting pot concept means each individual who comes into the country adds his/her own part to the mix, but still becomes American. American means English speaking. It means following laws and customs that have a Christian heritage. It means that all new customs, religions and holidays can be noticed and recognized, but doesn't mean they get to displace the American traditions.

Oh yeah... before you get all worked up about this, know that I am an atheist. I am an atheist who recognizes and appreciates the Christian traditions that have made this country great. I'm not threatened by Christianity because Christianity doesn't threaten me. Islam often does. This new wave of immigration that refuses to become part of America does as well.

[W1GUH]

This was covered explicitly in a corporate diversity training course I was forced to sit through.

One of the very first topics said that no, we're no a melting pot anymore. We're a "salad" with a lot of diverse stuff.

We also learned that it's not a good idea to shake the left hand of an Arab.

[K0RGR]

I think you guys are just in the wrong places.

I thought this place where I live was pretty diverse, and most, but not all, of the ethnic groups have assimilated to some degree. I'm sorry to say that some of our Muslim groups have assimilated less, but they will, in time.

But, I was out in San Jose last year, and I went downtown to visit the Tech Museum there. I took the nifty light-rail line the whole way there and back.

While I was waiting for the train, I could not help but be impressed by what I saw. I was one of only a few white faces there. There were people of every race and description. And, amazingly, they were all neatly dressed, speaking English to each other, and getting along just fine.

Just as high tech has brought these people here to Minnesota, it has done more in Silicon Valley. I know when I lived there, some ethnic groups were not assimilated at all. Now, the second and third generations of those groups are as American as anybody.

Here in Hooterville, there is a special school now for our 2,000 some Somali refugees - something I think is a bad idea. But, the Somalis are very much joining our society. Hundreds of them work at IBM or the Mayo Clinic. I had a young Somali woman as a nurse recently. The Somali kids who were born here are Americans, and though they retain a lot of their original culture, they mix in much more than their parents did.

So, I think assimilation will just take time in most cases.

There are exceptions - large parts of Texas have been reclaimed by Mexico - you just don't know it yet.

[kc2orw]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 04 2007,16:17)]I think you guys are just in the wrong places.
NY too close to NYC

[al2i]

The races are interbreeding like crazy in Alaska. It is a decided disadvantage if you cannot show some mixed blood as you will be discriminated against in the work place, for government loans, for school admissions, etc., and you run the risk of greater penalties for the same crime if you are pure Caucasian.

A Polish co-worker and his Cambodian spouse put "Pacific Islander" on their two Son's birth registries. It could mean many benefits in the distant future, and they love their children.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Oct. 03 2007,17:56)]The races are interbreeding like crazy in Alaska.
Gotta keep warm some how.

[al2i]

I welcome new immigrants seeking Liberty, despite the crowding, but I have no use for immigrants who come for money and are hostile to liberty. Owing to the state of the USA, there are more and more of the later type of immigrant these days.

[wv6z]

Why yes, yes I am.

[KA8NCR]

I wouldn't worry too much about the whole meltingpot concept. Another 8 years of crackpot leadership and representation like we've just had and the immigrants will start leaving.

This isn't targeted at just Bush, Republicans; it's a general statement that our government is beholden only to its corporate masters.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Oct. 04 2007,11:30)]
Quote[/b] ]
I don't know what happened to the melting pot idea. #People like to point to New York City as a melting pot, but that is a complete fabrication. #NYC seems to this outsider, to be more racially segregated, divided and tense as any place I've ever seen. #I've never heard so many people talk about "them". #Even in rural areas of the South, I haven't heard so many racial, religious and ethnic divisions discussed. #Just because they are living side by side, doesn't mean they've melted.


NYC is a huge place with a massive number of people. Immigrant groups tend to settle in neighborhoods. Sometinmes it's forced due to economic feasibility. Other times it's just the reality that different immigrant groups tend to congregate together.

During the 1960's and 70's there were a lot of white Europeans leaving NYC complaining that it's problems at the time were due to rising black and hispanic populations. But it was largely racial talk with no action or basis in reality. Today most of that kind of talk is gone. If anything NYC is a very racially tolerant place considering the massive numbers of different races, religions and nationalities found throughout the city. I know East Indians, Russians, Mexicans, Dominicans, italians, Irish, Chinese, etc. Not one has been attacked, assaulted, or demeaned because of his race religion or nationality. The few profile cases of racial bias we do have are usually nonviolent and are usually the work of some misguided kids, a disgruntled employee, and/or the occaisional fool.

Quote[/b] ]
American means English speaking.


No it does not. The USA has no official langauge. There are benefits to learning English but there is no official langauge.

Quote[/b] ]
It means following laws and customs that have a Christian heritage.


Which laws in particular have a "Christian heritage". ? Does this mean an new immigrant only has to obey the ones that have a Christian heritage and can ignore the ones that don't ? What about laws with a jewish heritage ? A Buddhist heritage ? I didn;t know we lived in a country where religion was a basis for law ? So then we truly do live in a theocracy.

Quote[/b] ]
#It means that all new customs, religions and holidays can be noticed and recognized, but doesn't mean they get to displace the American traditions. #


Which American traditions ? There are none. America was built on the idea of displacing traditions. Matter of fact that was the goal in the early days. To displace the customs and traditions of Native Americans and replace them with British and European customs. The majority of the customs and traditions we now have were imported from Europe and England. And depending on where you gfo in this country you'll find different imported customs depending on the predominant nationality that settled in a given locale.

Quote[/b] ]
This new wave of immigration that refuses to become part of America does as well.


The same thing was said of other immigrant groups throughout the ages.
Irish and Italian immigrants suffered this kind of reasoning. In the early days Italians were considered too far out to ever be able to assimilate into "American culture". As a result they were often outcase and as a result of that they often congregated in groups and neighborhoods where they could be close to their own kind for acceptance and protection and that was further taken as "proof" of lack of any desire to assimilate. It took many years for them to gain acceptance in America. The idea that "new waves" of immigrants refuse to become a part of America is an old idea.

[kd5kfl]

Quote[/b] ] If so, what was it in 'our' obviously unattractive blended culture that motivated them to come here in the first place?

$,

$$$,

and

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[KD6NIG]

Honestly I don't think its assimilation. Its the fact that, basically since inception, the USA has felt this need to always be the most proper nation or something like that. We can't offend anyone. Other nations in the world will offend people and commit atrocities of the highest accord. If we go into that nation and fart the wrong way we are chastised and called on the carpet for it.

Its happening in our own borders now. People are so afraid of offending and getting sued, they just give in and allow things to happen, or in the fear of offense, just don't do things anymore.

Thats why you're seeing this. The fear of celebrating any holiday might offend x or y minority group has gone full circle. The only way to prevent harm is to simply not do it, or do it in a way that all groups can participate. But when it comes to holidays, especially those that revolve around the church or religious teachings, its usually just easier not to do it-because to change or modify the holiday to make it encompass all groups and all teachings....basically eliminates the purpose of the holiday in the first place anyway.

I've noticed one pretty common theme though, even with the elimination of the holidays to stop offending, all groups who work in this land who get holidays off don't seem to complain about it much. They take the day off (with pay if you're lucky!) with a smile still. Thats about all we have left in common.

I'm not saying we should start committing atrocities, I'm not saying we should treat our fellow man like scum, but what happened to "you treat me like you want to be treated." I have no problem with you decorating your house however you want in December for whatever holiday you celebrate (or for that matter, whatever month since not all religious holidays are then). And, if some outside country does something to us that is horrific, I think the proper response is not to say "how dare you" but to respond in kind. I think you'd see a lot less terrorism and conflict in the world if the rules were even across the board.

And I think thats the bottom line. Humans cannot be equal. They have to have this ability to be better than anyone else. And its not just on a religious, cultural, or color of skin level. They have to have a bigger car, bigger house, bigger TV, louder stereo, and, with some of the ads you see on TV, the ability to 'function' longer than anyone else.

And that is why we are doomed. Not just as a country, but as a world population.

Our leadership in its current iteration (actually, the last few) proves this point. Because we cannot get along.... we have to be the worlds police. Now we're spread thin and going down fast, because, guess what-the world doesn't pay us for this service. Not only do they expect us to do this, they expect aid from us every year. If we don't provide it and decide to take care of ourselves, they will be up in arms again.

But we have nobody to blame but ourselves. When you want to save the world, you have to pay the price. The paychecks we're getting for what we're doing aren't nearly covering the debt. So, you and I will have to pay, which adds to the frustration and angst.

We have no way of getting along when we're constantly pissed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Not a chance. Human nature and bills for trying to save the world will be with us forever. Its not going to get better either.

So, happy whatever you celebrate throughout the year. Please don't attack me when I put up my Holiday lights up next month http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Thank you.

[W2BBQ]

I am not opposed to any or all "holiday" hoopla being eliminated from our public schools.

Education, particularly public ed., should be sticking to the 3 R's and even further readjusting its direction toward the teaching of the establishment of creating a noble personal character. School activities should seek to eliminate all distractions which take away from learning. Let folks do partying, religion and all "holiday" stuff at home.


Hey WV6Z.....are you the infamous Lobster Man I've been hearing about? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Dude...you need a new picture.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (wv6z @ Oct. 04 2007,13:33)]As an agnostic, and an immigrant, although admittedly white, middle classed and a speaker of the English language, I am having a hard time understanding the apparent cessation of the 'Melting Pot'.
You just answered your own question. In the days of the "melting pot" the immigrants were mostly white Europeans who came here with similar cultures and whose languages were in the same linguistic family. Even "less than fully white" central and southern Europeans were sometimes discouraged to come here, and those who did arrive suffered prejudice and discrimination . The melting pot worked well when the vast majority were British, Irish, German and Scandinavian, whom we welcomed with open arms.

Now, most immigrants are Hispanic and Asian, and they are made to feel about as welcome as lepers or HIV-positives. Many come here because they feel it is their only opportunity for survival, not because they have a high regard for the culture of their newly-adopted homeland.

And it's not only a US phenomenon; there is open hostility between natives and non-whites from former colonies arriving in UK, Algerians in France and Turks in Germany.

How many French, British, Irish, German, Dutch and Scandinavians do you see who have any interest in immigrating here these days? For most of these nationalities, the per capita income and social services are far better back home.