Use it or lose it

[kl7aj]

In addition to H.F. privileges, I wonder how many techs realize they have FULL privileges on all these bands...All licensees except Novices are
authorized all modes on the
following frequencies:
2300-2310 MHz
2390-2450 MHz
3300-3500 MHz
5650-5925 MHz
10.0-10.5 GHz
24.0-24.25 GHz
47.0-47.2 GHz
76.0-81.0 GHz
122.25-123.0 GHz
134-141 GHz
241-250 GHz
All above 275 GHz


Plus the almoust unused 220 band. This is ALL prime R.F. real estate. We NEED to get techs up here in these regions...

As far as the FCC is concerned.....it's Use it or Lose it. We lost 11 meters because of disuse, and a good part of 220 because of that. We need to OCCUPY all the spectrum allocated to us.

Eric

[KC5CSG]

I agree but lets not put that burden soley on the noobies. I admit, since I have been on HF my poor HT is collecting dust. A mistake I'll start to remedy. ALL of us should get on there and talk to them noobies.

There is no excuse to ignore a call on the repeater even if you're working for DX...........learn to multitask people.

Jerry

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Oct. 02 2007,16:55)]I agree but lets not put that burden soley on the noobies. I admit, since I have been on HF my poor HT is collecting dust. A mistake I'll start to remedy. ALL of us should get on there and talk to them noobies.

There is no excuse to ignore a call on the repeater even if you're working for DX...........learn to multitask people.

Jerry
It's not the repeater activity that's lacking....it's all the wonderful experimental stuff in the microwaves. Almost NOBODY is up there. We need to show the techs that there is life above two meters...as well as below.

eric

[n4bfd]

I've been calling CQ on 251ghz,USB the calling frequency for that band and no one has answered in years. I don't know what the problem is, I have my dipole up at 60 feet hanging from a tree using only 150 feet of quality RG8X coax.

60 feet up.... thats like 3million or so wavelengths high! You would think someone would be out there!

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 02 2007,20:00)]Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Oct. 02 2007,16:55)]I agree but lets not put that burden soley on the noobies. I admit, since I have been on HF my poor HT is collecting dust. A mistake I'll start to remedy. ALL of us should get on there and talk to them noobies.

There is no excuse to ignore a call on the repeater even if you're working for DX...........learn to multitask people.

Jerry
It's not the repeater activity that's lacking....it's all the wonderful experimental stuff in the microwaves. Almost NOBODY is up there. We need to show the techs that there is life above two meters...as well as below.

eric
Trouble is getting folks to do something besides trying for that rare DX on HF...

It's kind of a chicken/egg proposition... if there's nobody to talk to on those bands, nobody's going to want to invest in gear, homebuilt or otherwise, to collect dust while waiting for others to get on the air.

I also wonder if microwave frequencies don't scare some folks - all those dire warnings about making sure you're never too near the antenna, etc.

I'm all for working folks on whatever band there's activity. I'd love to see some ATV get going, but that's hard outside metro areas (and from what I see, there's not a whole heck of a lot of activity even in most metro areas).

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (n4bfd @ Oct. 02 2007,20:05)]I've been calling CQ on 251ghz,USB the calling frequency for that band and no one has answered in years. I don't know what the problem is, I have my dipole up at 60 feet hanging from a tree using only 150 feet of quality RG8X coax.

60 feet up.... thats like 3million or so wavelengths high! You would think someone would be out there!
Free space for all intents and purposes...

Don't you need a microscope to see that dipole? Something on the order of .002 feet for half wave, isn't it? .02 inches?

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Oct. 02 2007,17:08)]Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Oct. 02 2007,20:00)]Quote[/b] (KC5CSG @ Oct. 02 2007,16:55)]I agree but lets not put that burden soley on the noobies. I admit, since I have been on HF my poor HT is collecting dust. A mistake I'll start to remedy. ALL of us should get on there and talk to them noobies.

There is no excuse to ignore a call on the repeater even if you're working for DX...........learn to multitask people.

Jerry
It's not the repeater activity that's lacking....it's all the wonderful experimental stuff in the microwaves. Almost NOBODY is up there. We need to show the techs that there is life above two meters...as well as below.

eric
Trouble is getting folks to do something besides trying for that rare DX on HF...

It's kind of a chicken/egg proposition... if there's nobody to talk to on those bands, nobody's going to want to invest in gear, homebuilt or otherwise, to collect dust while waiting for others to get on the air.

I also wonder if microwave frequencies don't scare some folks - all those dire warnings about making sure you're never too near the antenna, etc.

I'm all for working folks on whatever band there's activity. I'd love to see some ATV get going, but that's hard outside metro areas (and from what I see, there's not a whole heck of a lot of activity even in most metro areas).
Well, the chicken and egg thing certainly butchered 220. I think this is a good place for cottage industry...some ham could EASILY build some inexpensive 220 transceivers with modern technology.

220 is actually a great band....lots of odd propagation events.

eric

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Oct. 02 2007,17:10)]Quote[/b] (n4bfd @ Oct. 02 2007,20:05)]I've been calling CQ on 251ghz,USB the calling frequency for that band and no one has answered in years. #I don't know what the problem is, I have my dipole up at 60 feet hanging from a tree using only 150 feet of quality RG8X coax.

60 feet up.... #thats like 3million or so wavelengths high! You would think someone would be out there!
Free space for all intents and purposes...

Don't you need a microscope to see that dipole? #Something on the order of .002 feet for half wave, isn't it? #.02 inches?
LOL I was thinking the same thing!!! Isn't a waveguide more effective at that frequency than coax? Man, what is the calculated loss at that frequency???

Jerry

[KC5CSG]

More seriously, I once thought about the prospect of getting into EHF and did a little research into project that have already been done. It was expensive and extremely complicated. Being a soldier I would have never had the time to complete the project nor have the money to invest in it without my wife leaving me. What was of more concern was doing that only to find there was no one up there to actually work on those bands. A lot of "ifs" in there.

Maybe when I retire and wouldn't mind my wife ignoring me for some time I will consider EHF again but hey, if the bands start booming up there I'll bust ass to get up there............

Jerry

[KC5CSG]

Well it all starts with talking. Where do most techs go with their new HT's??? The repeaters. I hear techs calling on the repeaters all the time and hardly anyone gets on there to discuss anything with them. It's all about club meetings it seems.

I'm no radio guru in any way so, even though I try my best to be conversational, I really can't do a lot to steer interest. After all, I own an HT like them and a very unimpessive SG 2020. Who am I to inspire? There are hams out there with thousands invested in their gear, extremely knowledgeable, great conversationalists but you can't get them on the places the techs go to inspire the techs.

Like I said, next to that 10,000 dollar rig should be a 2 meter rig up and running. Inspiring the local techs should be priority over your WAS or your DXCC. After all, it's for our hobby not YOUR certificate.

THAT IS WHAT DEFINES HAM RADIO AS BEING BETTER THAN CB. NOT THAT OTHER NONSENSE WE'VE BEEN HEARING IN THE OTHER THREADS.

Jerry

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It just goes to show that ---- there IS more to amateur radio than just 75 meters , 2 meters ...and ( of course ) the internet

But I see I just made you waste another precious minute of YOUR life by making this post for YOU to read....no I did not force you to read it, but you did any way.

Get back to the radio. That is where I am.

I dont give a hoot how long ( or short amount of time ) you have been licensed, if you are legal I will talk to you ON THE AIR.

Now...back to the rig. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2RJ]

I've always said - ham radio is not only HF.

Nor is it only 2m repeaters.

Two of the three antennas going up on my tower are NOT HF antennas.

More stuff will be going up and it is also not for HF!

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Oct. 02 2007,17:49)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # It just goes to show that ---- there IS more to amateur radio than just 75 meters , 2 meters ...and ( of course ) the internet

But I see I just made you waste another precious minute of YOUR life by making this post for YOU to read....no I did not force you to read it, but you did any way.

Get back to the radio. #That is where I am.

I dont give a hoot how long ( or short amount of time ) you have been licensed, if you are legal I will talk to you ON THE AIR.

Now...back to the rig. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Since most of us "youngsters" can multitask I'm on the air as I type this.

Yuk yuk............

Jerry

[kd5kfl]

What are you going to DO at these frequencies?

Pretty much has to be a point to point link. Highly directional antennas with the aim honed to a gnats whisker.

So you set up a point to point link. Linking what to what?

You have a high bandwidth data stream you need shipped from here to there? Who needs it at the other end?

Application first. Then use RF to solve the problem. No problem to solve with this spectrum, no need to develop gear and procedures to use it.

Maybe a downstream weather spotter. 3 video cameras with 150 degree coverage each and the usual complement of weather station equipment. See what the weather looks like in the direction weather comes from where you are.

And the funding comes from...

[K8YZK]

If the equipment was readily avaiable(ie cheap), then I would try it, but everything I see is out of my price range right now. Maybe that is why there is so much unused freq's in the microwave bands. Lack of funds and lack of readily available equipment.

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (kd5kfl @ Oct. 02 2007,17:57)]What are you going to DO at these frequencies?

Pretty much has to be a point to point link. Highly directional antennas with the aim honed to a gnats whisker.

So you set up a point to point link. Linking what to what?

You have a high bandwidth data stream you need shipped from here to there? Who needs it at the other end?

Application first. Then use RF to solve the problem. No problem to solve with this spectrum, no need to develop gear and procedures to use it.

Maybe a downstream weather spotter. 3 video cameras with 150 degree coverage each and the usual complement of weather station equipment. See what the weather looks like in the direction weather comes from where you are.

And the funding comes from...
True. I know from reading that the applications at those frequencies are very limited when it comes to range and directivity.

Wasting money to build a rig on the EHF frequencies may end up with a very expensive clunker on your tower seeing no use. Maybe you could experiment in "troposcatter" communications and that WOULD be interesting but then again who else is doing it? I'm not seeing a lot of threads in here booming with great adventures via troposcatter.

Well I think I would be better saying SHF and EHF frequencies.

Jerry

[AG3Y]

Quote[/b] (K8YZK @ Oct. 02 2007,21:58)]If the equipment was readily avaiable(ie cheap), then I would try it, but everything I see is out of my price range right now. Maybe that is why there is so much unused freq's in the microwave bands. Lack of funds and lack of readily available equipment.
BINGO ! ! !

When I worked on KA band satellite equipment ( 25-30 ghz, approx. ) the CONNECTORS for the equipment might have cost $1000 apiece !

You don't even want to know the cost of cables and connectors such as these:

http://www.radiall.com/vdocpor....00c-02j (http://www.radiall.com/vdocportal/portal/action/WebdriveActionEvent/oid/01g-00000c-02j)

Oh, and BTW, how are you going to TEST the stuff you put together ?

No, it isn't the lack of bandwidth and available frequencies that is keeping hams away from those frequencies in droves! It is the COST of the equipment.

73, Jim

[kn4ds]

At the really, really, shorts-are-way-too-tight frequencies, the signal has a tendency to fall to the ground once it leaves the antenna.

You think your neighbors don't like your tri-band beam? Think what fun you'll have with them when you mount a 10 foot parabola on that 50 foot non-guyed tower...

[KC5CSG]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Oct. 02 2007,19:34)]Quote[/b] (K8YZK @ Oct. 02 2007,21:58)]If the equipment was readily avaiable(ie cheap), then I would try it, but everything I see is out of my price range right now. Maybe that is why there is so much unused freq's in the microwave bands. Lack of funds and lack of readily available equipment.
BINGO ! ! ! #

When I worked on KA band satellite equipment ( 25-30 ghz, approx. ) the CONNECTORS for the equipment might have cost $1000 apiece ! #

You don't even want to know the cost of cables and connectors such as these:

http://www.radiall.com/vdocpor....00c-02j (http://www.radiall.com/vdocportal/portal/action/WebdriveActionEvent/oid/01g-00000c-02j)

Oh, and BTW, how are you going to TEST the stuff you put together ?

No, it isn't the lack of bandwidth and available frequencies that is keeping hams away from those frequencies in droves! # It is the COST of the equipment. #

73, Jim
I agree but didn't want to make it appear that was the only limiting factor in my mind. It's unbelievably expensive. To the point to where when I was researching the possibility of doing a project there I just said $%^# it!! I'd rather buy a motorcycle.

Jerry

[AG3Y]

$100,000 won't even buy you a half-way decent Spectrum Analyser for those frequencies. #Then there's signal generators, Bit-Error Rate Analysers, etc. etc. etc. # I tell you, even a multi-million dollar manufacturer has trouble gathering together enough of the test gear to keep all the technicians and engineers happy ! #It's not in the BUDGET ! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Frankly, I think the F.C.C. "gave" us those frequencies, with their tongue firmly planted in their collective cheek! "Give 'em to the hams. No one else will ever be stupid enough to use them ! " Of course, now we are seeing more and more demand for higher and higher frequecies. Pretty soon, we WILL be facing the "if we don't use it, we'll lose it" dilemma !

73, Jim

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Oct. 02 2007,22:42)]Frankly, I think the F.C.C. "gave" us those frequencies, with their tongue firmly planted in their collective cheek! "Give 'em to the hams. No one else will ever be stupid enough to use them ! " Of course, now we are seeing more and more demand for higher and higher frequecies. Pretty soon, we WILL be facing the "if we don't use it, we'll lose it" dilemma !
Considering the level of activity "up there," it's hard to imagine too much heartburn if they did take 'em away from us...

Frankly, I'm not interested in a cell phone that would cook what's left of my little brain in 2.7 seconds...

Cost aside, who's going to do a whole heck of a lot of "communicating" at frequencies that're reflected by a raindrop? Though it might be fun to work some thunderstorm scatter.

[KC9JUM]

2390-2450 MHz

Of these listed..... this is the most used.

2400-2450 is shared with a junk Part 15 ISM band.

I seem to think Kenwood made an FM transceiver in the Japanese market for 2.4ghz. And I know of one FM repeater on this band. In the quiet lower 10 mhz of course. ATV repeaters are prevalent as a lot of cameras and such use 2.4ghz ISM part 15.

http://www.rigpix.com/kenwood/tm2400.htm

Of course speaking of WIFI, drop you WiFi below channel 6 and that Router becomes a "Ham Radio", with all the usual benefits.

2.4ghz is about the -last- band you can even consider using coax, (and even then it better be -GREAT- coax, LMR400 or better) anything else is certainly mast mounted transverter country

Wifi is the reason we will never loose 2.4, lots of noise with all those routers Joe Bob and Mary with the kids are using.

Some of those higher bands are also ISM bands we were given to play around with, ISM bands are hard to refarm.

[KC5CSG]

Yeah, to be honest I don't think I'll lose any sleep at night if the FCC took away the bands above 23 cm. Well, maybe anything above 24 Ghz. I've always wanted to give that a try. One day I'll be rich enough to "go for it".

23 cm is a band I've always wanted to play with but I've never been to a place that has a lot of people playing around on that band.

Jerry

[K0RGR]

I think you might be amazed at what can be done on our microwave bands.

One of our local hams is very active on 10 Ghz.. There's a fairly large group of such folks in our region. They get together for contests and other activities, like trying to get a signal across the Great Lakes. Using flea power and small dish antennas, from south-central Minnesota, they are usually able to work stations in the Dakotas and Iowa.

There are some incredible DX records for amateur-802.11 gear on 2300 Mhz.. Contacts over 100 miles are common on 1296 Mhz..

Here's a couple YouTube videos on our local guy:
KC0P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY_4pAG1R1s)

KC0P Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9BHpm1eYvE)

[n4bfd]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Oct. 01 2007,18:10)]Quote[/b] (n4bfd @ Oct. 02 2007,20:05)]I've been calling CQ on 251ghz,USB the calling frequency for that band and no one has answered in years. I don't know what the problem is, I have my dipole up at 60 feet hanging from a tree using only 150 feet of quality RG8X coax.

60 feet up.... thats like 3million or so wavelengths high! You would think someone would be out there!
Free space for all intents and purposes...

Don't you need a microscope to see that dipole? Something on the order of .002 feet for half wave, isn't it? .02 inches?
Well, after doing some thinking I decided to just scrap the dipole and go with a long wire of .5 inches fed with a remote tuner.

Hmmm still no one is answering my call.

I was thinking of building a 50 element yagi, but I am not sure if I have the space to swing a 5 inch boom on the roof. I don't have a tower you know.

[kf4vgx]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 01 2007,21:46)]I think you might be amazed at what can be done on our microwave bands.

One of our local hams is very active on 10 Ghz.. There's a fairly large group of such folks in our region. They get together for contests and other activities, like trying to get a signal across the Great Lakes. Using flea power and small dish antennas, from south-central Minnesota, they are usually able to work stations in the Dakotas and Iowa.

There are some incredible DX records for amateur-802.11 gear on 2300 Mhz.. Contacts over 100 miles are common on 1296 Mhz..

Here's a couple YouTube videos on our local guy:
KC0P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY_4pAG1R1s)

KC0P Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9BHpm1eYvE)
Excellent correspondence http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[AG3Y]

At the KA band frequencies, the "dipole" element to feed the parabolic reflector was about an eighth of an inch long. We used to trim pieces of copper plating off the ends to raise the resonance frequency, and near the center to lower it using a very sharp Exacto™ knife under a microscope ! Of course this was in a development lab. The idea was to get the opimum dimensions and then use those dimensions in production. Very hairy work!

Far better to put a dipole radiator at the focal point of a dish, than try to make a yagi at that frequency ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

73, Jim