Song and Dance [Archive]

al2i

09-25-2007, 05:14 AM

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 24 2007,20:19)]We witnessed a man/child whose mother shouldn't have let him out of the house alone. If he's going to make a fool of himself, I'm going to enjoy the spectacle.
It does sound like some rip-roaring fun.

I know some kids who are Downs Syndrome -- they get together at the bowling alley -- and we could meet up with a taser and have a real hoot 'n Hollar time watching them squirm and yell "Ow OW OWW!"

A more humorous time is difficult to imagine, especially if we made a video of the fun and put it on youtube. We could really brag it up too!

Plus, since we have so little genuine self-esteem, we would actually feel better about ourselves via the humiliation of the confused kids!

Just think, the dummies would be yelling "WHAT DID I DO???" "PLEASE DON'T TASE ME!!" "WHY AM I IN TROUBLE??" OMG it would be the most fun we ever had!

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,01:14)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 24 2007,20:19)]We witnessed a man/child whose mother shouldn't have let him out of the house alone. #If he's going to make a fool of himself, I'm going to enjoy the spectacle.
It does sound like some rip-roaring fun. #

I know some kids who are Downs Syndrome -- they get together at the bowling alley -- #and we could meet up with a taser and have a real hoot 'n Hollar time watching them squirm and yell "Ow OW OWW!" #

A more humorous time is difficult to imagine, especially if we made a video of the fun and put it on youtube. #We could really brag it up too! #

Plus, since we have so little genuine self-esteem, we would actually feel better about ourselves via the humiliation of the confused kids!

Just think, the dummies would be yelling "WHAT DID I DO???" #"PLEASE DON'T TASE ME!!" #"WHY AM I IN TROUBLE??" #OMG it would be the most fun we ever had!
Tarradiddle.

(This post deserves the extra "r.")

As I and others have pointed out elsewhere, this incident probably would never have happened had the boy simply asked a question, however pointed or potential embarrassing to Kerry, that was shorn of the attitude and the epithets. The mic was not shut off because of the question, but because of the manner in which it was put. This is not "authoritarian muzzling;" it is merely a physical manifestation of an enforcement of ordinary courtesy and decorum. That the boy reacted as he did reinforces clearly the intention he brought to the auditorium.

Though I believe that the responding officers/guards/whatever over-reacted by using the stunner -- it is clear that they had enough manpower to manhandle the boy by cuffing both wrists and ankles, especially with sharp-edged plastic ties -- it was the boy's violent resistance, which itself is a telling response, that resulted in the loss of patience on the part of the respondents. I also imagine they were concerned about flying arms and feet, as well. It is easy to sit in judgment on this side of a monitor and decry as inappropriate conduct that seeks to protect themselves from injury as the result of such an essentially purposeless incident.

This incident does not measure up to some "police state" action. It is not a parallel with Bull Connor and his dogs and high-pressure hoses in support of the forces of darkest authoritarianist suppression. This incident shows nothing more than a group of security guards making an effort to restore the order that the boy stole from a school event. How that restoration was conducted was in the boy's hands the whole time; that it went badly and, in the end, he was "tazed" was his own fault. If you cannot see that it is your own vision that is clouded.

al2i

09-25-2007, 02:51 PM

You asked me elsewhere why I considered you an enemy of freedom Albert. It is because you support the violent arrest someone's kid for a procedural error. It is because you think that people of lower intellect should be objects of ridicule and subject to violent attack by uniformed thugs. It is because your barrage of prevarications are always designed to weaken criticism of authority, and it is because you "innocently" and repeatedly claim that you are against excessive government in general, while of course always licking and polishing those jackboots in specific.

Whatever you may imagine yourself to be, you are by your own actions an erudite enabler of fascist fantasy, an actor who plays a role of wordy opposition to government excess while hiding behind your mask of concern for Constitutional Liberty when the stage lights are on you.

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/drama_masks.jpg

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,10:51)]You asked me elsewhere why I considered you an enemy of freedom Albert. #It is because you support the violent arrest someone's kid for a procedural error. #It is because you think that people of lower intellect should be objects of ridicule and subject to violent attack by uniformed thugs. #It is because your barrage of prevarications are always designed to weaken criticism of authority, and it is because you "innocently" and repeatedly claim that you are against excessive government in general, while of course always licking and polishing those jackboots in specific.

Whatever you may imagine yourself to be, you are by your own actions an erudite enabler of fascist fantasy, an actor who plays a role of wordy opposition to government excess while hiding behind your mask of concern for Constitutional Liberty when the stage lights are on you. #

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/drama_masks.jpg
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Taradiddle</span>

If you believe this spoiled, over-sized child's preconceived political display of utter contempt for the rights of all others in this assembly resulted in an arrest "for a procedural error" you surely will believe ANYTHING at all.

The entire incident was the result of choices the child himself had made, and all of them were selected to disrupt the proceeding and highlight himself as a "hero" of sorts. I would not doubt that his histrionics, which were the root cause of the "tazing," justifiable or not, were as preplanned as the incident itself. If you do not see those things as clearly as do others, it is your own rational sight that may need checking. Do not brand others as fascists because you view them through a skewed political perspective.

You reveal a serious flaw in your presumption that you may arrive at any analysis, let alone an accurate one, by reading posts on QRZ. I suspect a serious case of cabin fever, and winter has yet to arrive.

The monsters do not live under my bed, Dave.

N9XR

09-25-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,03:36)]The monsters do not live under my bed, Dave.
They sleep quite snug on the topside.

al2i

09-25-2007, 03:51 PM

It would have been overkill for the university to have docked the student by a credit or a grade.

WA6MHZ

09-25-2007, 03:52 PM

Before we hear all the crys of how this was terrible police brutality, less we forget 2 other incidents in American History that were much much more. The first was the Student Protest at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago where Mayor Daley's GOONS wasted countless students trying to have a peaceful protest. This was no little tasers or stun guns. These Police were whacking away with batons and more breaking heads and arms and anything else they could on the students. The actual damage was well covered up but news videos caught some of it. For a good idea what happened, see the movie "STEAL THIS MOVIE" now being shown occasionally on the movie channels. It is the story of Abbie Hoffman. It also shows what dirty tricks the FBI did to get him and his friends at all costs!
The 2nd incident of ultra police brutality is what happened at Kent State shortly afterward. I think something like 6 students were SHOT DEAD by Police fueled National Guard during another protest. If I could only have been at both places, I would have been there, battling away and possibly being an additional casualty in the war against THE SYSTEM. But I was 16 at the time and my parents wouldn't let me out of the house. Yes it was that bad!
Nowadays, I am a good conservative Republican, but still don't condone any of this force used by the Government to stifle protest or disent. Nothing fires me up like re-living those days at CHicago or Kent state!

al2i

09-25-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote[/b] ]"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion." -- Edmund Burke

Despite a Universe of possibilities, You chose this as your signature line. A call to bend thy knee.

KE5FRF

09-25-2007, 04:13 PM

Guys, guys. "Chill".

Why can't you both be correct and see the point of the other?

Albert, Dave makes a valid case that the security gaurds had a "happy trigger finger".
Dave, Albert makes a valid case that the kid was play-acting for the camera...taunting the cops in hopes of making the evening news.

Dave is indeed right in being concerned that a person's liberties were violated. My only comment would be that this kind of thing is pretty damn rare, and that the cops were doing what they were trained to do to keep the peace.

Al is indeed correct that the kid had no right to behave that way and that some method of restraint was in order. I'd also like to add that 20 years ago the restraint methods would have resulted in bruises and possible broken bones.

This is a very gray subject where nobody is clearly right or wrong. An individual's liberty was trampled here, but what of the liberties of the other hundreds of participants in the forum? Why should they be subjected to the foul language of this individual? Why should their opportunity to ask questions be infringed by this young man's desire to take center stage?

I clearly tend to side with Albert on this issue, but I can't dismiss Dave's comments either. However, I also know that Dave is very intelligent and understands that idealism, as noble as it is, will rarely work in real world situations.

What was the alternative for the cops? Let the idiot continue to shout, continue to disrupt? Do we believe that he had intentions to stop? When would he have stopped? Would he have continued his rants until the forum had to be cancelled? Should we change the rules of public forums to allow people to speak out of turn, hog the microphone, and make spectacles of themselves? Just when was "force" OK? Would it have been OK after another 5 minutes of dancing around the hall? Would the tazer have been less painful if the cops had been more patient?

Cops have to make split second decisions. While I think these guys may have had a few more seconds of patience, and I suspect the kid might have succombed (big maybe here)...I think the cops had no choice but to restrain him and remove him. They could have been more violent and used bare-hand force. But this would have created a wild scuffle and possibly innocent bystanders would have been injured. The injuries to the cops and the kid might have also been more severe.

I also suspect that if the kid had not yelled "Don't taze me bro", the "effect" of this little clip would not have been so dramatic. If they had simply tazed him, cuffed him, and removed him, I doubt it would have made page 3 of the papers. It was the kid that used theatrics and jerked at the heartstrings of people who view the video.

I also suspect that a lot of folks who hold certain political points of view...people who may be apt to protest or demonstrate themselves, may be offended by this. The incorrect notion is that you have the right to protest and demonstrate any way you see fit. As this video shows, there are rules even a demonstrator must follow. I'd certainly hate to see my own child treated this way...but to be honest, if I saw my own son behaving like this young man, in private he's get a "counseling' he's never forget. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,11:57)]Quote[/b] ]"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion." -- Edmund Burke

Despite a Universe of possibilities, You chose this as your signature line. #A call to bend thy knee.
Not at all. It is a reminder of the values of honesty, judgment and the courage to apply them in the face of bigotry and the ill-considered apprehensions that bloom of the instant.

You are a cynic, and I am not. Your pessimism manifests itself, not as a true weariness of evil, but as a tiredness of good. You have invented an ideal and used it to blur reality. This was not Selma. This was not Ruby Ridge. This was an ill-mannered brat who grew larger in body as he shrank smaller in intellect. You have grown so accustomed to seeking the illicit in authority that you now choose to see it everywhere.

Even in your politics, you opt for a hopeless talisman, knowing that it will provide a balm to salve your avoidance of the real test of deciding which of the candidates, all of whom are amalgams of good and bad, of honesty and guile, of capacity and fecklessness, will provide the best chance of effectively leading the nation to a higher ground. You would rather stand and cluck Mittyesque maxims than step into the mud and work to move the cart forward in a real and effective way.

It is not my knee that bends, Dave. Just as they are not my monsters under the bed. I operate openly and honestly in the world of the real, and I am quite capable of shining a harsh light into the shadows of adolescent banality parading as free speech.

al2i

09-25-2007, 04:30 PM

I couldn't disagree more completely Heath. There is no reasonable middle ground here, and it is not a gray area. You do not see both sides of the argument as you apparently imagine. A clear line of proper behavior by the State towards a subject was crossed, violently, humiliatingly, and to my intense disgust. It is not negotiable, modifiable, or subject to moderated opinion.

The response here of further victimizing the young man with further ridicule seems pathological.

He wanted to know what he did. Begged to know what he did. No answer was forthcoming, because until some silly, trumped up charges could be invented, his real crime was that he believed too strongly in participatory democracy.

KE5FRF

09-25-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote[/b] ] You do not see both sides of the argument as you apparently imagine

Actually, I do SEE both sides. However, my own personal philosophy prevents me from agreeing with you, that's all.

Simply put, there can be no liberty without order. Anarchy is not liberty. Allowing people to behave like this would be one step from anarchy.

al2i

09-25-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,08:37)]Quote[/b] ] You do not see both sides of the argument as you apparently imagine

Actually, I do SEE both sides. However, my own personal philosophy prevents me from agreeing with you, that's all.

Simply put, there can be no liberty without order. Anarchy is not liberty. Allowing people to behave like this would be one step from anarchy.
I agree. Those cops and whomever told them they could interrupt civil democracy should be punished, and swiftly.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:30)]He wanted to know what he did. #Begged to know what he did. #No answer was forthcoming, because until some silly, trumped up charges could be invented, his real crime was that he believed too strongly in participatory democracy.
In a forum that ordinarily fills to overflowing with vapidity, this paragraph establishes a mark that will be very difficult to master. You are hereby awarded the mantle that accompanies the big, floppy shoes, orange nose and baggy pants.

al2i

09-25-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,08:40)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:30)]He wanted to know what he did. Begged to know what he did. No answer was forthcoming, because until some silly, trumped up charges could be invented, his real crime was that he believed too strongly in participatory democracy.
In a forum that ordinarily fills to overflowing with vapidity, this paragraph establishes a mark that will be very difficult to master. You are hereby awarded the mantle that accompanies the big, floppy shoes, orange nose and baggy pants.
It is difficult to proceed further with these floppy shoes, but why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:46)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,08:40)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:30)]He wanted to know what he did. #Begged to know what he did. #No answer was forthcoming, because until some silly, trumped up charges could be invented, his real crime was that he believed too strongly in participatory democracy.
In a forum that ordinarily fills to overflowing with vapidity, this paragraph establishes a mark that will be very difficult to master. You are hereby awarded the mantle that accompanies the big, floppy shoes, orange nose and baggy pants.
It is difficult to proceed further with these floppy shoes, but why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?
I have no answer. I do not know that they did or did not attempt to answer that question, and given the agitation and noise of the altercation, I don't know that such a fact can be gleaned from the tape.

I very strongly suspect that there is a story within this story that has yet to emerge. What is clear is that nothing we have seen is the totality of this incident, and I am beset by a nagging hunch that all of it was too pat by half and that the script will yet be revealed.

You might try a different eye shadow with the orange nose.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

al2i

09-25-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,09:46)]why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?
I guess someone will get right back to me on that.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:56)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,09:46)]why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?
I guess someone will get right back to me on that.
Somebody did. But you insist on an assumption rather than sure knowledge.

al2i

09-25-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,09:55)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:46)]why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?
I have no answer. I do not know that they did or did not attempt to answer that question,
The diminutive Reich-woman* did in fact answer Meyer's question long after he was attacked, electrocuted, hand-cuffed and in the lobby. She told him he was under arrest for "Inciting a riot". Of course, that was not a valid charge, and he was later charged with "disturbing the peace", a charge to cover anything, and "resisting arrest", despite the fact that he never seemed to know he was under arrest, because he had not been told he did anything wrong.

*Probably a nice enough gal without the uniform, but clearly an over-compensating monster with.

KE5FRF

09-25-2007, 06:14 PM

Dave.

Please be aware that I think that the guy had a right to be heard. But sometimes it's the WAY you voice yourself that matters. In this discussion, the police are being accused of behaving like fascists. I can't quote the guy, but my impression of the video is that he was being biligerant. His general tone, the vulgarity that he used.

OK, lets imagine the same guy had stood upon his soapbox and politely asked THE VERY SAME QUESTIONS without an accusatory tone and without the adolescent attitude. Lets pretend he had asked a pointed question, Kerry had skirted it, and he had a follow-up. Let's pretend that he "politely" asked Mr. Kerry if he could indulge him in a follow-up question. Or lets pretend he asked his first question in a way that covered all the bases.

In a truly fascist society, it isn't the method in which a protest or demonstration is carried out that results in abuse. It is the very nature of the question. In a truly fascist society, the police would have instruction to subvert such voices that stir up trouble, and the police would be "in on it", meaning they uphold the same values as the government.

In this case, it is obvious to me that the kid was not being subdued BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF HIS QUESTION but rather because of THE WAY HE BILIGERANTLY ACTED.

Do you see the difference? In the first case, truly his civil liberties would be trampled. In the second case, it is ALL ABOUT LAW AND ORDER and keeping the peace.

And to answer your question. Meyers already KNEW why he was being "arrested". Truth of the matter, he wasn't being arrested. He was being removed. If he had went of his own free will, he would not have been arrested, nor tazed. It was his resistance that brought the heavy hands and the tazer. I really wish you could see this truth.

al2i

09-25-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,10:14)]I really wish you could see this truth.
It is sad that cops are in your view able to arrest on a whim of perceived "belligerency" without actually having witnessed a crime, or detected any physical threat to anyone. You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms, I'll give you that.

As n2ize noted, the cops manhandled Meyer without charges because Meyer wasn't special.

al2i

09-25-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:56)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,09:46)]why couldn't the officers have simply told Meyer why he was being arrested?
I guess someone will get right back to me on that.

Quote[/b] ]I have no answer. I do not know that they did or did not attempt to answer that question,

Somebody did. But you insist on an assumption rather than sure knowledge.
Apparently no one can answer, so I will have to answer this myself. The young man was not charged with a crime because he hadn't committed a crime. That is why his request to know what was happening went unanswered, and he was simply clawed at, pushed around, tackled, wrestled, and tasered. He had every right to resist torture without being charged with a crime.

After being assaulted and electrocuted, he was told in the lobby* that he was under arrest, for "Inciting** a riot" and -- here is the ironic fascism of it all -- "Resisting arrest"! It is like a Bizzarro version of America. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Edit:
* After asking for something like the dozenth time.

** I forgot that he was originally told he was "Inciting a riot", but later that was changed to "Disturbing the peace", so I retroactively corrected my comment. If the police can do it I should too.

KE5FRF

09-25-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:20)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,10:14)]I really wish you could see this truth.
It is sad that cops are in your view able to arrest on a whim of perceived "belligerency" without actually having witnessed a crime, or detected any physical threat to anyone. #You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms, I'll give you that.

As n2ize noted, the cops manhandled Meyer without charges because Meyer wasn't special.
Dave.

Why must you make this about ME? I've noticed that in your replies on this topic (in several threads), you divert from the subject and attack the messenger ("You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms" )Seriously old man. We can have a discussion without resorting to trivializing each other's philosophies. I understand your passion. But just because someone doesn't fully agree with your passion does not make them an antagonist.

And you know that I highly respect your opinions anyway.

al2i

09-25-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:00)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:20)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,10:14)]I really wish you could see this truth.
It is sad that cops are in your view able to arrest on a whim of perceived "belligerency" without actually having witnessed a crime, or detected any physical threat to anyone. You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms, I'll give you that.

As n2ize noted, the cops manhandled Meyer without charges because Meyer wasn't special.
Dave.

Why must you make this about ME? I've noticed that in your replies on this topic (in several threads), you divert from the subject and attack the messenger ("You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms" )Seriously old man. We can have a discussion without resorting to trivializing each other's philosophies. I understand your passion. But just because someone doesn't fully agree with your passion does not make them an antagonist.

And you know that I highly respect your opinions anyway.
I meant that you are consistent Heath. You really are. If it has a uniform, you support it. Now after doing so, you act like it is a pejorative attack for me to point it out. I am noting what I have observed, and I really think that your "philosophy" is whatever will support the government-issued uniform.

My clown uniform does not apparently qualify.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,15:09)]My clown uniform does not apparently qualify.
But you do look so cute in it!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

al2i

09-25-2007, 07:13 PM

I guess I should expand my comments this time to note that you consider Mr. Meyer to be "belligerent". I noted "belligerence" on the part of the cops, not Meyer. Unable to see past the uniform, you automatically see the cops as noble.

KE5FRF

09-25-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,14:09)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:00)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,13:20)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,10:14)]I really wish you could see this truth.
It is sad that cops are in your view able to arrest on a whim of perceived "belligerency" without actually having witnessed a crime, or detected any physical threat to anyone. #You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms, I'll give you that.

As n2ize noted, the cops manhandled Meyer without charges because Meyer wasn't special.
Dave.

#Why must you make this about ME? I've noticed that in your replies on this topic (in several threads), you divert from the subject and attack the messenger ("You are consistent in your gnathonic thrall of banners and uniforms" )Seriously old man. We can have a discussion without resorting to trivializing each other's philosophies. I understand your passion. But just because someone doesn't fully agree with your passion does not make them an antagonist.

And you know that I highly respect your opinions anyway.
I meant that you are consistent Heath. #You really are. #If it has a uniform, you support it. #Now after doing so, you act like it is a pejorative attack for me to point it out. #I am noting what I have observed, and I really think that your "philosophy" is whatever will support the government-issued uniform. #

My clown uniform does not apparently qualify.
Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome. I guess thats what happens when you take up a cause and devote yourself to it. (I understand the events that have led to this)...All I ask is that the old Dave McGraw show himself now and then with some good old fashioned sarcastic humor.

You know how we discussed how fascism and socialism can wind up being the same thing? Well, chew on this. I'm sure you've met some tired old humorless liberals in your day, and a few tired old humorless conservatives. I'll focus on the tired old humorless liberal. You know the type. University professor, ex-war protestor (vietnam). Sees a travesty under every rock. No time for social life. "Must right the world's wrongs" no matter the cost. Hey, you can exchange some words and describe the tired old conservative.

I'd hate to see Dave McGraw lose his sense of humor. That's all OM.

al2i

09-25-2007, 07:31 PM

Am I being accused of NX6Dness?

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,15:31)]Am I being accused of NX6Dness?
I would not stoop so low. That would draw the gaunlet swiftly across any conscious cheek, upper or lower.

You may be pig-headed at times, and easily misled by overly idealistic notions of liberty and justice, and you have fallen into the pit of political impotence with your choice of candidates, but even at your worst you maintain a tenuous grip on reality.

Tenuous. But still somewhat visible.

Most times...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

al2i

09-25-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,11:37)]by overly idealistic notions of liberty and justice,
Of course. Other ideals must be attended to.

al2i

09-25-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:24)]Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome.
You are right Heath, and I have thought about it for a few minutes.

My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.

kc9kow

09-25-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 24 2007,04:50)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,01:14)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 24 2007,20:19)]We witnessed a man/child whose mother shouldn't have let him out of the house alone. #If he's going to make a fool of himself, I'm going to enjoy the spectacle.
It does sound like some rip-roaring fun. #

I know some kids who are Downs Syndrome -- they get together at the bowling alley -- #and we could meet up with a taser and have a real hoot 'n Hollar time watching them squirm and yell "Ow OW OWW!" #

A more humorous time is difficult to imagine, especially if we made a video of the fun and put it on youtube. #We could really brag it up too! #

Plus, since we have so little genuine self-esteem, we would actually feel better about ourselves via the humiliation of the confused kids!

Just think, the dummies would be yelling "WHAT DID I DO???" #"PLEASE DON'T TASE ME!!" #"WHY AM I IN TROUBLE??" #OMG it would be the most fun we ever had!
Tarradiddle.

(This post deserves the extra "r.")

As I and others have pointed out elsewhere, this incident probably would never have happened had the boy simply asked a question, however pointed or potential embarrassing to Kerry, that was shorn of the attitude and the epithets. The mic was not shut off because of the question, but because of the manner in which it was put. This is not "authoritarian muzzling;" it is merely a physical manifestation of an enforcement of ordinary courtesy and decorum. That the boy reacted as he did reinforces clearly the intention he brought to the auditorium.

Though I believe that the responding officers/guards/whatever over-reacted by using the stunner -- it is clear that they had enough manpower to manhandle the boy by cuffing both wrists and ankles, especially with sharp-edged plastic ties -- it was the boy's violent resistance, which itself is a telling response, that resulted in the loss of patience on the part of the respondents. I also imagine they were concerned about flying arms and feet, as well. It is easy to sit in judgment on this side of a monitor and decry as inappropriate conduct that seeks to protect themselves from injury as the result of such an essentially purposeless incident.

This incident does not measure up to some "police state" action. It is not a parallel with Bull Connor and his dogs and high-pressure hoses in support of the forces of darkest authoritarianist suppression. This incident shows nothing more than a group of security guards making an effort to restore the order that the boy stole from a school event. How that restoration was conducted was in the boy's hands the whole time; that it went badly and, in the end, he was "tazed" was his own fault. If you cannot see that it is your own vision that is clouded.
with an opinion like that, i'm going to openly tell you to go back to the iron curtain from which you came. Commie!

And the remark about the donws syndrome kids was not called for either! Do you have an inkling of a clue what these individuals live with?

I know, let's find one of YOUR relatives with a disability and publicly degrade THEM! You both are sick people who need to watch your foul mouths!

al2i

09-25-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,12:28)]And the remark about the donws syndrome kids was not called for either! Do you have an inkling of a clue what these individuals live with?

I know, let's find one of YOUR relatives with a disability and publicly degrade THEM! You both are sick people who need to watch your foul mouths!
I was illustrating the attitude of the posters who said that it was OK to taser Meyer because he was stupid and/or immature. I do not enjoy torturing the disabled, but a great deal of mirth was apparently experienced here because a naive kid was electrocuted. I am sorry if my approach was insensitive.

kc0ukk

09-25-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:55)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:24)]Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome.
You are right Heath, and I have thought about it for a few minutes. #

My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.
Dave, 'electrocutions' (you've used the word in its several forms in your post) is not the correct word. To electrocute is to put to death by electricity. The kid was shocked with electricity, but he was not 'electrocuted'.

The child was charged with 'inciting a riot' because that is what he did when he yelled for help. You see that as a minor offense just as you see all of his other offenses as minor offenses.

Furthermore, you assume it was the police who decided that the child was out of line. The police did not have control of the mic, the event organizer had the control. We can also assume one of two other choices; 1. the police acted spontaneoulsy when the mic was cut off, or 2. the police were directed to act by the sponser of the event. Either case would be legitimate.

The police may or may not have acted to arrest the child immediately. They may have been simply wresting control of the mic from the child and then escorting the child out of the arena.

Once the child resisted the police commands, then he was guilty of resisting or attacking an officer. Police are allowed to detain and question without making an arrest. You assume that the police knew, a priori, that the child was going to resist their commands and had a charge in mind.

The police, had the child not acted as he did, most likely would not have arrested him at all, but simply escorted him from the hall. That was the very reason they were in the hall in the first place.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,16:28)]You both are sick people who need to watch your foul mouths!
You, sir, cannot read or think clearly. In your case, it would seem as though mere stupidity would be an improvement. If you bother to read the post you quote, I have made no comments whatever about anyone with any disability, Downs or others.

More to the point, there was nothing whatever foul in either of the posts. If you cannot read at least at the sixth-grade-level, you have no business making any posts, let alone calling anyone "sick" or "commies."

al2i

09-25-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 25 2007,12:54)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:55)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:24)]Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome.
You are right Heath, and I have thought about it for a few minutes.

My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.
Dave, 'electrocutions' (you've used the word in its several forms in your post) is not the correct word. To electrocute is to put to death by electricity. The kid was shocked with electricity, but he was not 'electrocuted'.

The child was charged with 'inciting a riot' because that is what he did when he yelled for help. You see that as a minor offense just as you see all of his other offenses as minor offenses.

Furthermore, you assume it was the police who decided that the child was out of line. The police did not have control of the mic, the event organizer had the control. We can also assume one of two other choices; 1. the police acted spontaneoulsy when the mic was cut off, or 2. the police were directed to act by the sponser of the event. Either case would be legitimate.

The police may or may not have acted to arrest the child immediately. They may have been simply wresting control of the mic from the child and then escorting the child out of the arena.

Once the child resisted the police commands, then he was guilty of resisting or attacking an officer. Police are allowed to detain and question without making an arrest. You assume that the police knew, a priori, that the child was going to resist their commands and had a charge in mind.

The police, had the child not acted as he did, most likely would not have arrested him at all, but simply escorted him from the hall. That was the very reason they were in the hall in the first place.
kkk:

Look OM, you started this thread on the premise of enjoying what happened, and making fun of the tortured kid. Then you said this:

Quote[/b] ]Just keeping it front page news. If you are offended, then change your ways.

I was offended, and I then changed my ways. No more "Mr. nice guy".

My friend Heath noticed right off.

Seriously, if you think it is hilarious to use animal prods on naive college kids, think again.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 25 2007,16:54)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:55)]My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.
Dave, #'electrocutions' (you've used the word in its several forms in your post) is not the correct word. #To electrocute is to put to death by electricity. #The kid was shocked with electricity, but he was not 'electrocuted'.
Dave is given to the use of hyperbole. It worsens when he becomes excited, and unmanageable when he is caught trying to argue from an untenable position.

He will come aright after a while.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

al2i

09-25-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,13:06)]It worsens when he becomes excited, and unmanageable when he is caught trying to argue from an untenable position.

He will come aright after a while.
Especially if I am electrocuted to calm me down.

W3MIV

09-25-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,17:20)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,13:06)]It worsens when he becomes excited, and unmanageable when he is caught trying to argue from an untenable position.

He will come aright after a while.
Especially if I am electrocuted to calm me down.
You must admit that it would be an effective treatment. It worked on Tom Eagleton, as I recall.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I pronounce this thread dead. It needs not a casket and has earned no catafalque; a plain garbage can will do.

KC4RAN

09-25-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 24 2007,15:20)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,13:06)]It worsens when he becomes excited, and unmanageable when he is caught trying to argue from an untenable position.

He will come aright after a while.
Especially if I am electrocuted to calm me down.
If you are actually "electrocuted", you will indeed be calm. Very calm.

You didn't answer someone's earlier question. At what point, after how many minutes, would it have been OK for the police to remove this person from the microphone?

And as for another part of the discussion, I don't believe an officer has to tell you what you're being arrested for if you got right down to it. The fact that you're being arrested doesn't change if you have or do not have that knowledge. When they book you in, you are told what you are being charged with. IIRC, that's the point at which they're requried to inform you of the charges you are facing. Until that point, the only thing that is required is Miranda, and that's only if they want to be able to use anything you say before they Mirandize you. If they're willing to not be able to use anything you say post-arrest, they don't have to say a word.

When the people with the guns ask you to step away from the microphone, you have two options. You can take your chances and attempt to 'stand your ground' like this person did - with the knowledge of what exactly it is that you are risking. You may later be proven "right" in a court of law, after going through the ordeal... or you may not. Or you can simply obey the instructions of the officers, then later perhaps be proven "right" in a court of law when you sue them on civil rights grounds for preventing you from speaking.

Assuming you are "right", the end outcome is the same but the path is completely different. In the first one, you are arrested and charged with a crime. If you resist arrest (as this person did), you will be charged with further crimes as a result. You may be proven right in a court regarding your right to speak at the microphone, but you will have spent time in jail and will have to answer to the resisting charges. After you get out and settle all of the criminal charges, then you will have time to speak to your attorney about going forward with a case against the city or officer or officials who prevented you from speaking.

In the second case, you may simply walk away without being arrested, then you'll have lots of time to speak with your attorneys regarding your case.

Resisting arrest doesn't make any 'wrong' less 'wrong' or any 'right' more 'right'. It simply adds another charge to the docket. At that point, you're not going to convince the officers that you are right and they are wrong, so what good does it do anyone to resist at that precise moment -- unless you are attempting to incite some sort of uprising right then and there?

kc9kow

09-26-2007, 01:36 AM

I'll answer this question.

The police would not have been authorized to remove anyonoe after any amount of time, it is NOT their job. They are there to preserve peace, keep order, and act in their state defined capacity...not to decide when someone's time is up at a mic.

That time issue is for the organizer to decide, and as Mr. Kerry stated before...he instructed the coppers to leave him alone, and he was happy to answer the question...the police acted too quickly.

They were out of their official capacity, and NO...the student did not incite a riot. He was being attacked and called out for help while being unlawfully brutalized. Resisting arrest is always unlawful, but arrest crosses the line when officers act in the way these officers acted. It becomes brutality, battery, a crime and police are also expected to obey the very same laws they are paid to enforce, or in this case...twist to their advantage.
They are now criminals.

And also a response for the smart alecky W3MIV: My reading level and comprehension abilities are above most others'.

If you wish to engage in public words, i'm game. I'll win and win fast. Go back to your farm chores milk maid!

al2i

09-26-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Sep. 25 2007,13:48)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 24 2007,15:20)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 25 2007,13:06)]It worsens when he becomes excited, and unmanageable when he is caught trying to argue from an untenable position.

He will come aright after a while.
Especially if I am electrocuted to calm me down.
If you are actually "electrocuted", you will indeed be calm. Very calm.

You didn't answer someone's earlier question. At what point, after how many minutes, would it have been OK for the police to remove this person from the microphone?
I think one minute from the time of being asked -- not seconds. After the one minute, he should have been summarily executed by electric shock at the discretion of the Peace Officers.

al2i

09-26-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,17:36)]And also a response for the smart alecky W3MIV:
Look buddy, if you are going to get personal and lose your sense of humor about all of this I am going to turn you over to my friend Heath for a good tongue-lashing (and not in a nice way I might add). You'll beg for the taser by the time Heath is done with you!

kc9kow

09-26-2007, 02:07 AM

For AL2I since he decided to get involved:

I work week-on/week-off in the Kuparuk oil field on the North coast of Alaska as a network systems specialist for ConocoPhillips Inc. (In alaska this is the guy who makes the coffee)

Kuparuk is the second largest oil field in the United States, and provides infrastructure for the Alpine oil field and a number of other energy developments in the Kuparuk River area. (He followed in the family tradition of being uneducated which is why he ended up here in this dead end job)

The Kuparuk development is home to a rich and growing wildlife population, because the millions of waterfowl and thousands of caribou seem to appreciate the lower predator count near our facilities.(since humans are the only breed that preys on each other, that would mean YOU are the wildlife since there are no grocery stores where you are) The caribou in particular like to calve right next to our buildings because the wolves and bears are less comfortable getting too close to people, (I wouldn't want to get too close either, if I knew i'd be seen as the new romantic exploit by some frustrated frozen fritter) and the mosquito count tends to be slightly reduced when you get a few feet off of the tundra. (the alcohol in your blood may be killing them off) Although wildlife counts are low near Arctic native villages due to intense human predation, counts are very high in the oil field. The animals quickly learn the difference! It is rough to be a caribou in the Arctic when there is no oilfield!(Looks like you have something in common with our enemies in the middle east)

Why don't you introduce me to Heath now, so I can berate him too. #

We have an active and growing group of hams in the Kuparuk club and we are in the process of building an all-HF band capability -- but for now we are mostly active on 20 meters. Propagation up here is excellent for over-the-pole communications into Europe, the Mid-East, Asia, and Africa. The hardest continent to hit from up here seems to be South America. (You actually know what ham radio is there? I didn't think you knew how to even read in the frozen parts.)

We have had no success keeping an HF Yagi in operation, as the Arctic ice loads and hurricane force winds that can blow unceasingly for days have shredded anything we put up. (proves your stupidity for staying there) Because of this we are building a modest antenna farm out of wire antennas, and have tentative plans to build a ruggedized, 20 meter, rotatable dipole. (Is this at your mental capabilities?)

Kuparuk is home to IRLP node 3027, the furthest North node in the world at Latitude 70N, and although it is usually parked on a reflector, we would be happy to hear you call "CQ Kuparuk". Just be aware that we are working most of the day, and that the best time to call is from 6pm to 11pm Alaska time (7 to 12 Pacific). (like anyone would call you anyway. Are you sure you know how to key the mic?)

My home QTH is in Wasilla, Alaska where I am active on HF and VHF. My daughter Kayla, KL1TX earned her license a few days after she turned 13, and is mostly interested in hamming because she thinks Morse code is retro-cool. She likes to teach code to her friends and there are several of them that now know how to sign their name if nothing else. (He admits his kid is smarter than him. Which has been the norm for him. He still likely thinks he resembles being cared for)

I also own a small business in downtown Wasilla called "The Digital Cup", and enjoy writing in my spare time. My current project is a series of short stories about a gang of young teens: "The Geek Commando Clan." (Good one! Do you write your ABC's too? I reccomend you learn that first!)

73, and I'll talk to you on the air! - No, you won't because you can't even figure out how to keep an antenna up!)

al2i

09-26-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,18:07)]For AL2I since he decided to get involved:
I warned you.. Heath is going to lick, I mean kick, your behind!

kc0ukk

09-26-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,14:04)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 25 2007,12:54)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:55)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:24)]Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome.
You are right Heath, and I have thought about it for a few minutes. #

My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.
Dave, #'electrocutions' (you've used the word in its several forms in your post) is not the correct word. #To electrocute is to put to death by electricity. #The kid was shocked with electricity, but he was not 'electrocuted'.

The child was charged with 'inciting a riot' because that is what he did when he yelled for help. #You see that as a minor offense just as you see all of his other offenses as minor offenses.

Furthermore, you assume it was the police who decided that the child was out of line. #The police did not have control of the mic, the event organizer had the control. #We can also assume one of two other choices; 1. the police acted spontaneoulsy when the mic was cut off, or 2. the police were directed to act by the sponser of the event. #Either case would be legitimate.

The police may or may not have acted to arrest the child immediately. #They may have been simply wresting control of the mic from the child and then escorting the child out of the arena.

Once the child resisted the police commands, then he was guilty of resisting or attacking an officer. #Police are allowed to detain and question without making an arrest. #You assume that the police knew, a priori, that the child was going to resist their commands and had a charge in mind.

The police, had the child not acted as he did, most likely would not have arrested him at all, but simply escorted him from the hall. #That was the very reason they were in the hall in the first place.
kkk:

Look OM, you started this thread on the premise of enjoying what happened, and making fun of the tortured kid. #Then you said this:

Quote[/b] ]Just keeping it front page news. #If you are offended, then change your ways.

I was offended, and I then changed my ways. #No more "Mr. nice guy". #

My friend Heath noticed right off.

Seriously, if you think it is hilarious to use animal prods on naive college kids, think again.
The humor is found in the attempt by some to lionize this man as a couragous defender of free speech rather than the inconsiderate, self-absorbed and immature fool he portrayed.

KE5FRF

09-26-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,21:14)]Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,18:07)]For AL2I since he decided to get involved:
I warned you.. #Heath is going to lick, I mean kick, your behind!
Hey easy now Dave.

I am curious. What in God's name was the purpose in quoting your bio and turning it into an ad hominem against you? What did it have to do with this thread and tasers?

Curious minds want to know.

KE5FRF

09-26-2007, 02:43 AM

Quote[/b] ]Why don't you introduce me to Heath now, so I can berate him too.

And for what reason would you choose to berate me might I ask?

al2i

09-26-2007, 03:16 AM

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 25 2007,18:34)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,14:04)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ Sep. 25 2007,12:54)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,12:55)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,11:24)]Nah. I just sense "aggression" in this exchange. Aggression toward Al, me, etc. Of course, I know your style and I know you don't mean anything personal so none taken.

Really, I've just noticed a change in you OM. I used to count on you for 100% humor, even when you were being serious. Please understand that you are starting to sound different and that is troublesome.
You are right Heath, and I have thought about it for a few minutes.

My "problem" is that I am extremely unwilling to be part of a society that gleefully engages in summary public electrocutions of students.
Dave, 'electrocutions' (you've used the word in its several forms in your post) is not the correct word. To electrocute is to put to death by electricity. The kid was shocked with electricity, but he was not 'electrocuted'.

The child was charged with 'inciting a riot' because that is what he did when he yelled for help. You see that as a minor offense just as you see all of his other offenses as minor offenses.

Furthermore, you assume it was the police who decided that the child was out of line. The police did not have control of the mic, the event organizer had the control. We can also assume one of two other choices; 1. the police acted spontaneoulsy when the mic was cut off, or 2. the police were directed to act by the sponser of the event. Either case would be legitimate.

The police may or may not have acted to arrest the child immediately. They may have been simply wresting control of the mic from the child and then escorting the child out of the arena.

Once the child resisted the police commands, then he was guilty of resisting or attacking an officer. Police are allowed to detain and question without making an arrest. You assume that the police knew, a priori, that the child was going to resist their commands and had a charge in mind.

The police, had the child not acted as he did, most likely would not have arrested him at all, but simply escorted him from the hall. That was the very reason they were in the hall in the first place.
kkk:

Look OM, you started this thread on the premise of enjoying what happened, and making fun of the tortured kid. Then you said this:

Quote[/b] ]Just keeping it front page news. If you are offended, then change your ways.

I was offended, and I then changed my ways. No more "Mr. nice guy".

My friend Heath noticed right off.

Seriously, if you think it is hilarious to use animal prods on naive college kids, think again.
The humor is found in the attempt by some to lionize this man as a couragous defender of free speech rather than the inconsiderate, self-absorbed and immature fool he portrayed.
I am trying to remember "Lionizing" anyone other than Heath.

al2i

09-26-2007, 03:20 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Sep. 25 2007,18:41)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 25 2007,21:14)]Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,18:07)]For AL2I since he decided to get involved:
I warned you.. Heath is going to lick, I mean kick, your behind!
Hey easy now Dave.

I am curious. What in God's name was the purpose in quoting your bio and turning it into an ad hominem against you? What did it have to do with this thread and tasers?

Curious minds want to know.
I think I was supposed to be embarrassed because I haven't updated that bio in a hen's age. It is pretty boring, and sounds like a shrill commercial for oil drilling. Sigh.

Anyhow, I am better now because I believe in better living through electricity.

ka5piu

09-26-2007, 06:07 AM

Hello.

OK, CAIR now has a Tazer to play,er, test with.
We need subjects for this little experiment.
First, the people who have no Tazer resistant clothing.

al2i

09-26-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Sep. 25 2007,22:07)]Hello.

OK, CAIR now has a Tazer to play,er, test with.
We need subjects for this little experiment.
First, the people who have no Tazer resistant clothing.
I think kc0ukk is available. I am too busy typing to be electrocuted right now.

kc9kow

09-26-2007, 06:19 PM

Hey, why don't we turn the tazer on Cowtheif until he stops breathing? It seems the only way to get rid of him once and for all.

al2i

09-26-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 26 2007,10:19)]Hey, why don't we turn the tazer on Cowtheif until he stops breathing? It seems the only way to get rid of him once and for all.
Won't work. KA5PIU has metal underwear.

W3MIV

09-26-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,21:36)]And also a response for the smart alecky W3MIV: My reading level and comprehension abilities are above most others'.

If you wish to engage in public words, i'm game. I'll win and win fast. Go back to your farm chores milk maid!
Go back and read what I posted and then read what you posted and then come back an apologize for your crass accusation. If you cannot or will not do that, I can only assume that you are just another example of the usual equus asinus braying mindlessly among the membership of the QRZ zoo.

al2i

09-26-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 26 2007,10:31)]Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,21:36)]Go back to your farm chores milk maid!
Go back and read what I posted and then read what you posted and then come back an apologize for your crass accusation. If you cannot or will not do that, I can only assume that you are just another example of the usual equus asinus braying mindlessly among the membership of the QRZ zoo.
Alberta you know that you are really a female farm hand deep underneath. Admit it.

W3MIV

09-26-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 26 2007,14:36)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Sep. 26 2007,10:31)]Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 25 2007,21:36)]Go back to your farm chores milk maid!
Go back and read what I posted and then read what you posted and then come back an apologize for your crass accusation. If you cannot or will not do that, I can only assume that you are just another example of the usual equus asinus braying mindlessly among the membership of the QRZ zoo.
Alberta you know that you are really a female farm hand deep underneath. #Admit it.
I'll scratch your eyes out, you hussy!

kc9kow

09-27-2007, 04:43 AM

KOW sees PIU watching everything boil and decides to get a plan together with MIV and 2I.

We walkover to PIU and rob him of all his silly anti-stun gear. MIV stuns him several times, enjoying the funny dance PIU does.

wv6z

09-27-2007, 05:37 AM

Ah, still winning friends and influencing people I see. To the untrained eye, one might foolishly think you are actually ‘fitting in’, wouldn’t they?

ka5piu

09-27-2007, 06:28 AM

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Sep. 26 2007,11:25)]Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 26 2007,10:19)]Hey, why don't we turn the tazer on Cowtheif until he stops breathing? It seems the only way to get rid of him once and for all.
Won't work. #KA5PIU has metal underwear.
Hello.

I will let you taze me, no problem, as long as I get to use my spurs on you.
This is a very simple device.
First, a simple inverter, modified sine wave.
On discharge, around 5 kV happens, the baseline voltage drops to around 300 volts at 55 Hz at 22 mA at maximum output.
I can decide to provide only baseline voltage, and limit this to 8, 13, or 22 mA, or HV, or both.
You do the math.
It is the fact that I have, and am known for, electric spurs, that people have come to me about the Tazer.
Prior to about a year ago, a stun gun related incident, I did not think of carbon fiber cloth in the context of an electric shield.
Now, I am playing with Tesla coils and using carbon fiber cloth to produce a faraday shield.
I think that being able to draw an arc from 5 feet away to the tip of the finger is cool.
But, whatever the case, the offer stands.