The Return of the BARF

[w4nti]

I was let to believe the alleged neo-nazi BARF organization (according to Karel) was coming on
today at Noon EDT. #I tuned in 14.313 and all I
heard was a discussion about Butterflys. #Did I
miss it? #Did anybody check in? #

I came back a bit later and I heard the squeaky
audio of WA1BHV telling me (W4NTI) to quit
"making like a Chicken". #Uh.....what does that
mean? #Did anyone hear a chicken? #And why would
David say it was me? #

I will admit to being on the air around that time, #but
I was in QSO with Gerry N1GJT on 14275.

Help me out...I really wanted to join the BARF today,
I'm sure that would have made Karel's page, #eh PH?

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI

[KI4ITV]

I don't know about 14.313, but somebody was broadcasting a ARRL program on 14.272 around the same time.
I laughed to myself thinking the ARRL was going proactive by occupying a known subversive frequency.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (KI4ITV @ Sep. 01 2007,16:14)]I don't know about 14.313, but somebody was broadcasting a ARRL program on 14.272 around the same time.
I laughed to myself thinking the ARRL was going proactive by occupying a known subversive frequency.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Oh....that was K1MAN the boy broadcaster up in Maine. He tapes the rain report and the ARRL news and Newsline and replays them on 20 meters. He claims this is a public service. I call it QRM.

If you want the skinny on him do a google on his callsign.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n9ph]

NTI,

That's an interesting story, Dan. I was recording 14275 before KFM and AET started. I had just made a phasing adjustment to one of the antennas and wanted to "calibrate". They came on a completely clear frequency...you could hear a pin drop. After they conversed for awhile, two stations started a QSO right on top on them.

Now I know they heard KFM because he shifted to 2KW because AET was having trouble hearing him with his rotatable dipole. KFM was 10 dB over S9 here.

After the QRMing QSO ended on 275, I went up to 313 to listen to the BARF, and starting recording there. And again I hit pay dirt. But even I couldn't believe my good luck. it was one of the same stations QRMing on 275 minutes earlier...same beam headings, signal strengths, etc, all captured with 2Gbit/sec sampling receivers.

Needless to say, it was a very productive afternoon hunting QRMers. I have a completely documented case of someone doing it sequentially...first on 275...then on 313.

Beyond excellent. Serial QRMers need serial timeouts.

Toejoe

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (n9ph @ Sep. 01 2007,17:43)]NTI,

That's an interesting story, Dan. #I was recording 14275 before KFM and AET started. #I had just made a phasing adjustment to one of the antennas and wanted to "calibrate". #They came on a completely clear frequency...you could hear a pin drop. After they conversed for awhile, two stations started a QSO right on top on them.

Now I know they heard KFM because he shifted to 2KW because AET was having trouble hearing him with his rotatable dipole. #KFM was 10 dB over S9 here.

After the QRMing QSO ended on 275, I went up to 313 to listen to the BARF, and starting recording there. #And again I hit pay dirt. #But even I couldn't believe my good luck. #it was one of the same stations QRMing on 275 minutes earlier...same beam headings, signal strengths, etc, all captured with 2Gbit/sec sampling receivers.

Needless to say, it was a very productive afternoon hunting QRMers. #I have a completely documented case of someone doing it sequentially...first on 275...then on 313. #

Beyond excellent. #Serial QRMers need serial timeouts. #

Toejoe
What are you trying to say PH? #I never heard KFM on 275 at all. #I had a nice QSO with Gerry N1GJT. #Gerry did say he heard KFM, #but with all the jamming going on it was likely a tape. #Since I didn't hear him at all I can't confirm yea or nay. #I have a severe line noise problem that masks all but the loudest of signals.

Perhaps I should tell you now. #I have a homebrew device here that allows me to sample a interfering signal and adjust the phase of it vs the desired signal. #And the product is a clean signal. #It is manually adjustable or automatic.

I ALWAYS leave it in the NULL position toward VE7KFM, #since I can't stand hearing him. #So why should I listen, right? #I am thinking of patenting it one day so I'm sure you won't mind if I don't give out any more details.

That device you use up there is somewhat antiquated and is subject to error. #Although for a neophyte like you I am sure you can ignore that.

You really should be careful in wild unfounded accusations however, #it can get you in trouble, sir.

Ta Da.

Dan/W4NTI

[n9ph]

Woops....You better go back and read that and make the appropriate corrections. You seem to be forgetting something, like what was said during the QRMing QSO on 275.

I never accused anyone of anything. I'm very careful about that. I believe in collecting evidence. Read my post. It never mentions any offending station by name or call. I merely said there were two stations QRMing on 275, and then one of them moved to 313 and QRMed there.

Are you saying it was you, and that you didn't hear the other stations at all, in both cases? Because that's hard to believe. You didn't hear KFM, the strongest signal on the band on 275, AET from south FL on 275, David from VT on 313, Doug from Texas on 313, and the AZ station on 313?

You must have the strangest antenna pattern ever documented in the history of mankind. Damn the luck.


Toejoe

[w4nti]

PH,

I don't need to correct a thing.

Answer this know it all....how can a station be a "qrming station" when:

A. he does not hear anyone on frequency?
B. the station in question is a known bootlegger by your
own statement it was that EA guy, that is really a
girl in SPAIN.
C. Under US law, an illegal station is NOT protected from
QRM. Thus no law is broken.

Do you not understand basic HF propagation? Gads I better not even try to discuss beam patterns or Null antenna's. How about saving me a lot of trouble PH?
Go get a ARRL Antenna book and calculate the F/S of
a three element parasitic antenna, pointing ENDS on VE land and the bootlegger in Florida from my QTH.

My grid is aproximately 85Long 33 Lat.

If you need any more data such a heigth above average terrain, do a google. I am getting tired of teaching you the basics.

And don't forget to add at least 40db attenuation in the null pattern of my receive antenna. You do understand the concept of using a seperate receive antenna to cut interference, or to quiet Power Line Noise, do you not?

Me thinks you need some education in antenna theory. And don't ask me, I told you I may patent this device.

Maybe you need to drop back ten and punt. Your out of your league here new guy.

Dan/W4NTI

[n9ph]

I'm confused, Dan. First you said that GJT heard KFM, and now you're saying you heard AET, but he is a bootlegger so it doesn't count?

So let me get this straight, just for future reference. These are the rules according to NTI.

1. If I think a station is a bootlegger, I can QRM them. I don't need any evidence that he is indeed a bootlegger, but I only have to "think" it.

2. If I hear another station in QSO, but I "think" it is a recording, I can start a QSO.

3. If 1 and 2 above don't apply, and I'm about to get myself in trouble, I just say I didn't hear them, even though I was surrounded by three large signals.

Can you tell me where in Part 97 it indicates number 1 above applies. I've read it maybe 20 times and I don't see any exceptions to the "willful interference" rules. Obviously such an interpretation is incorrect. I could get on the air tomorrow and say that I though NTI and GJT are bootleggers and talk all over you. Someone is very confused.

And my reading of part 97 indicates that it is your duty to be sure you are not interfering with another station. I think the "reasonable man" standard would apply. That means listening for 3 seconds doesn't count.

Toejoe

[w4nti]

PH,

Are you really so ignorant or is this just a game for you.

Again, let me try an help you out.

No, I said GJT thought he heard KFM, but with all the
tapes flying around I said it was probably a tape.

But you have all of this tape, right? So why are you asking PH? Right.

Next;

AET....that's right. A bootlegger has NO RIGHTS AT ALL.

End of discussion. Don't believe me? Ask FCC.

2. If YOU hear a station, you make the choice of firing up or not.

3. You may have heard the signals, but the station you are hearing may not have. Like I said...you obviously have no concept at all of HF propagation. Are you a V/Uhf operator ONLY? Sure sounds like it to me.

Listening for 3 seconds? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?

Look PH. The only reason I am yapping with you is that I have absolutely nothing better to do. It is obvious you have no technical knowledge at all. What is it you do at BOEING By the Way? Sweep the floor or clean the Latrines.

I think I will go visit with my wife. Have fun with your witch hunt and be sure and tell Karel the next time I hear him calling CQ I will answer him. Course I'll have to turn off my soon to be patented idiot filter.

Hey, is that why I never hear you on the radio PH?

Don't bother to reply, I won't see it. You are obviously
in serious denial.

Tell KFM hey for me will ya?

Dan/W4NTI

[n9ph]

Dan,

I assume you asked the FCC for clarification on "QRMing a suspected bootlegger".

Do you have that on paper or in an email? I'd love to see it. If not, who told you this was true? Maybe he or she has it on paper, or in an email.

This is very important and I'm sure everyone reading this thread would like to see the evidence of this interpretation of the rules.

Thanks
Toejoe

[w4nti]

Part 97 : Sec. 97.119 Station identification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.


For further clarification contact

RileyHollingsworth@fcc.gov

Good night

[n9ph]

Dan,

That doesn't answer the question. AET does identify properly.... amd he says he has a valid amateur license.

Did Riley tell you it was acceptable (and legal) to QRM a suspected bootlegger?

I don't believe Riley would say something so incorrect. Someone has misinterpreted him in some way, and it's a big deal.

You can't QRM stations you "believe" are bootleggers. End of story. Anyone that says otherwise is just wrong.

Toejoe

[n9ph]

Dan,

This is what I believe happened. I believe Riley told someone that if indeed someone was found to be a bootlegger, then violations (like QRMing) by other amateurs related to that person (the bootlegger) would not be valid.

NO DUH!

But that doesn't mean you can "think" someone is a bootlegger and QRM him.

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Get it now?

Toejoe

[n9ph]

Dan,

Where'd you go? Just when we were getting to the heart of the matter.

Since you posted that you willfully QRMed AET, because you believe he is a bootlegger, you admitted to a violation of Part 97.

If it turns out AET IS a bootlegger, you'll get a pass. But if he isn't a bootlegger, well.....I guess you'll get a little timeout. No big deal.

Now if you have an email from the FCC that indicates you're OK no matter what the status of AET, then posting it here would be a great idea.

Otherwise, people reading this thread might think worse of you, and I don't want that to happen...since I'm always fair when it comes to our hobby.

Toejoe

[w4nti]

The MAN that is using the call EA1AET is obviously NOT
the WOMAN the call is assigned to.

Additionally if a person qualifies under the reciprocal licensing statutes to operate in the US he can NOT BE A US CITIZEN, nor can he use his FOREIGN CALL in the manner this bootlegger is. In times past I have heard him claim to be a U.S. Citizen.

Example; I used to hold KX6AA (Marshall Islands) and DA2LJ (West Germany) at the same time I held W4NTI.

I could not sign KX6AA/W4 nor could I sign DA2LJ/W4

Which is how the bootlegger signs the call he is using.

Thus he is illegal in that respect also.

I never heard the ea7 or VE7, I really wish you would take a remedial reading course.

I do not need to check with Riley, but it sounds like you do.

Now for my cup of Joe.


Dan/W4NTI




OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS MINISTRY OF PUBLIC WORKS AND THE ECONOMY Resolution of the General Secretariat of Communications on notification to the holders of the administrative authorizations that are related, of the liquidation of office of the canon of reserve of the radioelectric public dominion.



Having tried unfruitfully in the last address known, in the province of Salamanca, the personal notification of the liquidation of office of the canon by reserve of the public dominion radioelectric, corresponding to period 1 of January from 1998 the 31 of December of 2002, in agreement with the had thing in the Order of 10 October of 1994, to the holders of the administrative authorizations that are related in the annexed associate and ignoring their present address, is made the present to them, in agreement it prevents article 59,4 with the Law of Legal Regime of the Public Administrations and the Common Administrative Procedure. The official forms for the entrance of the owed amounts will be able to take shelter in the Provincial Headquarters of Inspection of corresponding Telecommunications. This entrance will have to take place in the following terms: If the notification has been published from the 1 to the 15 of the month, until the 5 of later the following or immediate month capable; if it has been published of the 16 to the last day of the month, until the 20 of later the following or immediate month capable. Against the mentioned liquidation it can interpose, in the term of fifteen working days counted from the following one to the publication of this notification, resource of replacement before the Secretary General of Communications or economic-administrative claim before the Economic Court Administrative Power station, without both can be synchronized. Madrid, 3 of April of 2000. The Head of the Area of Economic Management, Enrique G. Martinez Pinto. Relation that are mentioned with reference expression, to title, national document number of identity/fiscal number of identification,

last address well-known and amount to enter pesetas. EA1AET. Sagrado Garci'a, Maria Teresa. 7.802.792-L. Bermejos street, 9, 3.o B, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780.



EA1AFL. Gay Cord, Jose Luis. 7.808.486-D, Spain street, 6, 2.o D, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780. EA1AFS. González Cobos D Avila, Luis. 7.774.634-J. Avenue of the Comuneros, 3, 2.o D, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780. EA1AHH. Caspuero Leon, Miguel Angel. 7.754.956-T. Seat of the Angel, 2-1, 3.o To, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780. EA1AHK. Dark Moscoso, Right Miguel. 7.795.302-G. Villaviciosa street, 40-42, 1.o C, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780. EA1AIA. White Hernandez, Gregorio. 7.831.137-M. Street Roller, 59, 1.o B, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780. EA1AKF. Gallego Martin, Manuel. 7.764.626-X. Street Manuel de Falla, 27, 1.o, Salamanca (Salamanca). 20.780.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[N8GAV]

From what I read I am glad I went to Ohio State Youngstown State game.Good luck with ToeJam er ToeJoe Dan, he is a better flip-floper then John Kerry and like you it's time for my cup of joe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w4nti]

GAV,

Hi Hi.....man you got that right. He is just a troll, but sometimes it can be fun to feed them.. hi.

I'm from NE Ohio, we buckeys can handle it.

Dan/W4NTI

[K3VR]

What are the benefits of BARF? Funny (http://www.barfproducts.com/benefitsofbarf.htm) you should ask!

[N1GJT]

Nice job putting N9PH in his place Dan! He will now have to contact Karol via e-mail to find out what to say next. As we all know Barf disintegrated a long time ago but we are still here. To try and start it up again on 14.313 is total proof in the wise statement that "you just can't fix stupid".

[n9ph]

No Dan, I'm not a troll. I'm trying to get you to understand even the most basic of good amateur practice.

Here's a list of my concerns....

1. QRMing a station you "think" is a bootlegger is a violation of the rules. If you assume they are illegal but they are not, you have broken the rules. It's bad practice to make this assumption. It is far more sensible to assume they are legitimate and let them have the frequency.

2. Assuming someone is "playing a tape" as an excuse to start a QSO potentially on top of someone is again extremely bad practice. Since you have heard someone on frequency, it is your duty to listen long enough to determine if it is a tape. Again, the sensible assumption is to assume there is a "live" QSO in progress, and let them have the frequency.

3. Saying that you can't hear stations therefore you didn't knowingly QRM someone is only good up to a point. This excuse really falls down when you have stations all around the compass in QSO. Again, apply the "reasonable man" standard. Is it reasonable to assume you couldn't hear anyone? No, it isn't reasonable.

All of the above reek of extremely poor amateur practice.

What ever happened to the polite amateur? That was rhetorical so you don't have to struggle for an answer.

Toejoe

[w4nti]

I really feel sorry for you PH. Until I read and re-read your posts I could not understand why you can't stay on subject. And apparantly don't have the ability to comprehend what you do read.

Example;

1. QRMing a station you "think" is a bootlegger is a violation of the rules. If you assume they are illegal but they are not, you have broken the rules. It's bad practice to make this assumption. It is far more sensible to assume they are legitimate and let them have the frequency.

I never said, or implied I thought EA1AET was a bootlegger. I know he is a bootlegger, and provided proof of such in a previous post from the licensing
authority of SPAIN.

Why should I assume a obviously improper callsign to be legitimate? You sir, are bass ackwards. Perhaps you need some remidial training in FCC rules and regulations?


It is not my problem that you can't comprehend simple
English.

And again;

2. Assuming someone is "playing a tape" as an excuse to start a QSO potentially on top of someone is again extremely bad practice. Since you have heard someone on frequency, it is your duty to listen long enough to determine if it is a tape. Again, the sensible assumption is to assume there is a "live" QSO in progress, and let them have the frequency.

Of course playing a tape is bad. What has that to do with what we are discussing? Nothing. You still can't
get it through you head that I never said I could hear anything on the frequency. I said N1GJT said he heard something, I commented it could be a tape and he agreed. Are we clear now? This is the last time I am going to drag you to the watering hole and you won't drink.

Assuming there is a "Live" QSO on 275 is ridicolous, you sir don't have even a vague idea what your talking about.


And again;

3. Saying that you can't hear stations therefore you didn't knowingly QRM someone is only good up to a point. This excuse really falls down when you have stations all around the compass in QSO. Again, apply the "reasonable man" standard. Is it reasonable to assume you couldn't hear anyone? No, it isn't reasonable.

Here we are back to your reading comprehension problem,
Do you not remember me saying I have a high noise level problem here? I also have a directional beam antenna which would have been ENDS on Florida and BC ?
And do you not remember me telling you about my Homebrew null device?

You conveniently chose not to pay attention.

You keep refering to a "reasonable standard" Please send me a link to that standard, or publish it here for all
of us to read.

In the meantime, this conversation is over. You can go play Hearts with you dog for all I care.

Dan/W4NTI

[n9ph]

Dan,

You don't know that AET is a bootlegger.

You're back to being FCC cop, and you're not very good at it.

When the FCC proclaims AET a bootlegger, and puts it in writing, then your assumption is good. Until then, give up that excuse.

I would continue to debate you but can now see I am wasting my time. You are too far gone. You don't have any idea of what is good or poor amateur practice.

Continue with your operating methods and see how that works out for you.

Good luck in the contest.

Toejoe

[N8GAV]

Quote[/b] (n9ph @ Sep. 02 2007,11:15)]#

Good luck in the contest.

Toejoe
Where oh Where have I seen that quote before???

[n9ph]

All amateurs use that phrase. I was at a hamfest last month and I believe I heard that phrase maybe 10 times per hour.

You should get more involved in the hobby so you wouldn't be so far behind the power curve.

Good luck in the contest.....indeed.

Toejoe

[N8GAV]

Quote[/b] (n9ph @ Sep. 02 2007,11:28)]All amateurs use that phrase. #I was at a hamfest last month and I believe I heard that phrase maybe 10 times per hour.

You should get more involved in the hobby so you wouldn't be so far behind the power curve.

Good luck in the contest.....indeed.

Toejoe
Once agian Joe you assume more then we both know http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif I was talking about a little web site oh what's it called?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?? Oh yea Radio Blab Alot and Say Nothing New.You know, I think its from Canada. Then you may not have read that far or seen the site.

[G0GQK]

This is all very depressing. In a few years time when conditions improve the whole of the world will have to listen to this crap.

G0GQK

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ Sep. 02 2007,14:24)]This is all very depressing. In a few years time when conditions improve the whole of the world will have to listen to this crap.

G0GQK
Exactly what I have been trying to tell these blockheads that want to put their head in the sand and make believe it is not real.

What can I say Mate?


Dan/W4NTI

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Nah, it aint THAT depressing. There ARE other things to do in life besides -- a) listen to 14.275 , or b) sit and tap a keyboard at this or any other site .

Sure I make a lot of useless posts ( like this one ), but there ARE other things to do besides the two forementioned ideas.

wash the vehicle / vacuum the floor / pet the dog~~cat / communicate with others in the house / endless options.

Aint none of you folks going to FORCE me to listen to 14.275, nor will you FORCE me to make another useless post.

What is really nice to notice is --- fewer threads about the same topic than there used to be. THAT is truly great of the moderators to do. I endorse such an idea..knock it down to NONE if they want to and all of your begging / smart remarks wont make any difference.

It proves whose keyboard is mightier.

I am tired of all the FREE ADVERTISING for 14.275 and its cronies .

Keep up the good work moderators.

GOD be with you in your efforts !!

AI4EP with another of his useless posts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 02 2007,18:29)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Nah, it aint THAT depressing. #There ARE other things to do in life besides #-- a) listen to 14.275 #, or #b) sit and tap a keyboard at this or any other site .

Sure I make a lot of useless posts ( like this one ), but there ARE other things to do besides the two forementioned ideas.

wash the vehicle / vacuum the floor / pet the dog~~cat / communicate with others in the house / #endless options.

Aint none of you folks going to FORCE me to listen to 14.275, nor will you FORCE me to make another useless post.

What is really nice to notice is --- fewer threads about the same topic than there used to be. #THAT is truly great of the moderators to do. #I endorse such an idea..knock it down to NONE if they want to and all of your begging / smart remarks wont make any difference. #

It proves whose keyboard is mightier.

I am tired of all the FREE ADVERTISING for 14.275 and its cronies .

Keep up the good work moderators.

GOD be with you in your efforts !!

AI4EP with another of his useless posts. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Naw....all it says about you is that you support censorship.

And this comment will probably get me banned.

Have a good evening.

Dan/W4NTI

[ai4ep]

nti --- dont be so rough on yourself.

censor ship is not a nice word to use in a situation like this.

Surely with your vast intelligence you can come up with a " nicer / more polite " phrase to use.

I shall return later to see the improvement you have made / can make.



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 02 2007,18:58)]nti --- dont be so rough on yourself.

censor ship is not a nice word to use in a situation like this.

Surely with your vast intelligence you can come up with a " nicer / more polite " phrase to use.

I shall return later to see the improvement you have made #/ can make.



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Bring you lunch, it's gonna be a long wait.

Dan/W4NTI

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ai4ep]

nice lunch... !!

nice dinner, too !!

[ka5piu]

Hello.

I can understand where you are coming from, but, looking for something called the barf net?
I stay away from 80 meters unless it is field day.
When the solar cycle kicks in I will have fun, as 10 meters, and perhaps even 6 meters, will be hopping.
That means there will be more QRM, true.
But, it also means that more bands will be open.
And more places to take that contact to.
I like ALE, set up a sked with another station, sync the frequency list, and go.
Try to jam me and the radios simply change frequency.
And, with enough effort, just about any radio can be adapted to ALE.