How Come I can't Find One Of These?

[w2vw]

After reading several well informed posts by several learned hams I've decided to look for a new ssb rig. The learned hams have convinced me that a narrow transmitter will help me achieve ssb nirvana. I'll finally be able to bust pileups barefoot. Everyone will want to hear my audio. Problem is I can't seem to find any rigs made in the last 35 years that transmit ssb through a filter that specs out less than 2.3 kilo-hurts. What is wrong with all the manufacturers? Is this some kind of conspiracy to crowd our bands and sell more receiver gizmos? Maybe I should forward all narrow band correspondence to the guys in Japan who design the rigs? I also want to put an active amplifier in my ALC line to make the rig even narrower and be a good ham. whatsa

[KI4PEQ]

kilo 'hurts'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

Please, David. Spare us the troll posts. No one is impressed with your vanity call sign. If you were an Extra that really qualified as an Extra, you could answer your own question. But since it appears you cannot, either you squeaked by the Extra exam, memorized the answers, or most likely, are trying to stir up some excrement.

By the way, listing Alfred E. Newman as a QSL manager only solidifies my contention that you are a troll of the highest order.

Why not go to the Island of Misfit Hams? I'm sure they would appreciate your brand of humor there.

[KA4DPO]

What's this? Words of ignorance from a zero WPM extra?

[W7KI]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Sep. 01 2007,12:56)]What's this? Words of ignorance from a zero WPM extra?
Its just some bait looking for a fish...

[w2vw]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Sep. 01 2007,12:56)]What's this? Words of ignorance from a zero WPM extra?
Your lack of research ability is really embarrassing.

Even if I was a zero WPM Extra that would only be a shot in the dark.

Please stick to the subject. Thanks.

[w2vw]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Sep. 01 2007,12:34)]kilo 'hurts'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

Please, David. Spare us the troll posts.
You guys cousins or do you owe them money?

[W4BD]

Well he's a 13 WPM Extra. So now so much for calling him a ZERO WPM EXTRA.

73's

[ne3r]

The Ten-Tec Jupiter can adjust the TX filter bandwidth, I think that other Ten-Tec rigs have this too. Also, I've been following the recent release of the Elecraft K3, I think its roofing filters cover the transmitter as well.

73 de Joe NE3R

[K9STH]

VW:

There are a number of manufacturers that do make a 1.8 KHz filter as an option for their equipment and some have a 2.1 KHz filter available. However, reducing the human audio range to 1800 Hz generally restricts the voice to where it has a very "harsh" sound. With the usual practice of placing the filter so that the lowest 300 Hz of the voice is basically eliminated, using a 1.8 KHz filter means that the voice frequencies are restricted to 300 Hz to 2100 Hz. Now there are some (especially with males) voices that naturally fit into this range. However, most voices do have more "highs" and thus using such a filter does cause some distortion.

Now both Heath and Collins used 2.1 KHz as their standard filters in their "top of the line" equipment (Collins starting with the S-Line and Heath with the SB-Line) and this produces some very good sounding SSB without being "overly" wide. Now Drake used 2.4 KHz filters in their 4-Line equipment which is definitely wider than Collins or Heath and is what most equipment use today. The Collins and Heath units had a voice frequency range of 300 Hz to 2400 Hz and Drake specifies 325 Hz to 2725 Hz.

Since most transceivers today use the same filter for receiving as well as transmitting using a 1.8 KHz filter generally produces a harsh sounding signal on receiving as well as transmitting. Now a few contest operators do use a 1.8 KHz filter during contests to reduce the interference from adjacent frequency operations. However, most amateur radio operators (including the majority of contest operators) do not like the harshness of the 1.8 KHz filter and stick to a wider filter. The 2.1 KHz filter is probably the best compromise between a wider filter (which gives a more "hi fi" sound) and absolute performance.

My primary and secondary stations are Collins S-Lines and my main "backup" station is a Heath SB-Line (SB-301 / SB-401) all with 2.1 KHz filters. Frankly, I often get comments on how good my audio sounds even when I haven't as yet told my equipment.

Glen, K9STH

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (w4bd @ Sep. 01 2007,13:24)]Well he's a 13 WPM Extra. So now so much for calling him a ZERO WPM EXTRA.

73's
How does that work? A 13 wpm General who, after the code requirement was lowered to 5 wpm, became an Extra?

I do NOT mean to suggest I have a problem with that. I do not. But I don't recall there ever being a 13 wpm requirement for Extra class license. I think it went from 20 to 5 to zero. Did I miss a step?

Ed

[W4BD]

HTW

Well I guess he was a 13 WPM general and then when they dropped to 5 WPM he took the EXTRA and passed. I am a 5 WPM Extra and I went from a NCT to a 5 WPM Extra. I passed the Elem Elem 2 and 3 in Oct 04 and passed Elem 4 in Jan 05 and the Elem 1 in Aug 05.

73's

[k3wrv]

I gotta agree with STH on Collins audio. If you've ever heard a Collins rig and another rig (TenTec, Yaecomwood, Drake - whatever) in QSO with an S-line or KWM-2, you can tell the difference. And the audio will bust pilups like a knife thru butter. Everybody else is a step down. And while STH may know what the secret was, the other manufacturers haven't figured it out. The TenTecs, at least since the Corsair have had 1.8 kilocycle filters as an option, but don't have the clean punch of the Collins rigs. And the Collins rigs are relativel inexpensive, even today = about what they cost new ~$1500 for a 73S1/32S-1 combo or a straight KWM-2. Until you hear one, you won't believe the audio quality, and IMHO, they're the only rigs that don't splatter!.
Don't believe me? Listen in on the CCA net Sunday afternoons. When I'm on the S-Line, folk notice and comment. And I've busted a lot of pileups at 100 W abds beat up my neighbor's contest station at 2KW. Unfortunately, the dials are calibrated in kilocycles or megacycles, not Kilo-Hurts, but as long as you have a scientific calculator or computer in the shack..., even an NCE can make the conversion, with appropriate software.
de Bob

[n4bfd]

Here ya go...

http://www.flex-radio.com/Products.aspx?topic=F5Ka_details

Has lots of dem dar extree mega hurtz as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WA9SVD]

Methinks some people can't detect a TIC post by a medium Code Extra when they see it? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Of course I COULD be wrong. (Then again, if I'm wrong about being wrong, would I be right?)

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (n4bfd @ Sep. 01 2007,17:21)]Here ya go...

http://www.flex-radio.com/Products.aspx?topic=F5Ka_details

Has lots of dem dar extree mega hurtz as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
For those that have difficulty converting kilo-cycles to kilo-hurts, here's a handy chart.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

I agree, Collins radios have both that audio "punch" and can be understood.
I speak Arabic, a language that has several sounds that do not exist in the Latin alphabit, so audio quality is critical to communications.
First is the microphone, a broadcast quality mic and wind screen is the norm.
Next, the audio section, a lot of work in getting dynamic range up and distortion down, replacing the unbalanced input with balanced audio, XLR connectors and the like, as noise can easily follow.
Finally, the modulator.
It is not so important that it is a broad signal, but it needs to be a clean signal.
And the Collins gear has it while having a fairly narrow signal.
The heil contesters mic element? flat out will not work with Arabic, too much is lost.
One change that made the telephone more accepted in the Arab world was when LM Ericsson produced a set with a dynamic mic element.
Motorola went to the dynamic mic element in part to cater to the Arab market.
The people worldwide liked the new motorola mic so much that it was offered across the board.
The very early Arab T-Power rigs and prior have a metal mic that looks just like any Motorola mic, but have an odd mic connector.
Inside the mic is a dynamic element and a submini tube that was made by raytheon.
The tube runs on 1.4 volts for filament and 22.5 volts for plate, provided by something called a photo battery.
So, audio quality in Arabic has been an issue for a long time.
One of the reasons that CW was common for so long in the Arab world.
Yet we can make our signals just as narrow as anyone else.
It is not so much frequency range as it is dynamic range and distortion.
Putting tight filters in the audio chain introduces ringing and distortion.
Putting in tight filters in the RF section has no such effect.

[k4kyv]

From years of experience, I have found that the bandwidth of the transmitter is directly proportional to the mindwidth of the operator.

Those extremely narrow filters are hard to find because there is no demand for them. The amateur community finally got fed up with listening to signals that sound like Donald Duck talking through a tin-can telephone.

[K9STH]

Actually, you can get a 75S-1, 32S-1, and 516F-2 (the power supply for the transmitter) for around $1000 or slightly under in many cases. The 75S-3 series, 32S-3 series, and 516F-2 start around $1200 and go up depending on the model and the emblem type. Now this is for equipment in at least very good condition. For something less "pristine" you will pay less.

The 32S-1, 32S-2, KWM-2, and KWM-2A really should not be used on CW because they use side-tone CW generation which usually produces at least 3 signals and sometimes even more. When those units came out the FCC issued all sorts of citations for multiple signals on CW. Now on SSB they work fine.

The CW problem was corrected in the 32S-3 and 32S-3A. Those transmitters use true CW generation and work fine on both CW and SSB.

The Collins S-Line will work fine on the WARC bands and on 60 meters without any modifications. You just have to have the correct heterodyne oscillator crystals.

The analog dials are accurate to within at least 1 KHz. However, AADE makes a no holes / no modification digital readout kit that sells for right at $60 which gets the accuracy down to 10 Hz which is as close as any "modern" equipment.

Attached is a photo of my AADE unit connected to my Collins 75S-3A.

Glen, K9STH

[ka5piu]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Sep. 01 2007,20:14)]The 32S-1, 32S-2, KWM-2, and KWM-2A really should not be used on CW because they use side-tone CW generation which usually produces at least 3 signals and sometimes even more. #When those units came out the FCC issued all sorts of citations for multiple signals on CW. #Now on SSB they work fine.

The CW problem was corrected in the 32S-3 and 32S-3A. #Those transmitters use true CW generation and work fine on both CW and SSB.
Hello.

Correct, the KWM-2(a) is a very poor CW transmitter out the box.
The military model, on the other hand, does do true CW, with some able to do AM.
I saw this on a few rigs and decided I wanted, no, needed, to have this.
The mod is not for the faint of heart, there is quite a bit that gets changed, and on the units that do AM there is also an extra modulator box to deal with, normally powered by a special power supply that also supplies the radio.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Sep. 01 2007,14:34)]Why not go to the Island of Misfit Hams? I'm sure they would appreciate your brand of humor there.
Ha ha you're obsessed about us.

I'm so happy it chaps your hide that IOMH exists.

Maybe you ought to post using your real callsign there one day. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[G8ADD]

It is worth noting that a narrower signal doesn't need an expensive narrow filter, many modern rigs allow you to tailor the frequency response on transmit as well as receive using DSP.

73

Brian G8ADD

[w2vw]

Thanks to those who posted sincere responses.
The Flex link looks very interesting I didn't see where it can be narrowed to similar bandwidth to the old standard which would be a Collins with a mechanical 2.1 filter though. There are a lot of people with the Flex on the air so I'll simply ask one for a demonstration. The Flex specs open up another whole set of questions. Lookie at the IMD and audio bandwidth. So much for the concept of low voice frequencys automatically producing undesireable intermodulation distortion.
I will see If I can track down a friend who has a Jupiter also.
I'm well aware of old S-line stuff having owned several stacks of it. I think the transmitters sound awful with the 2.1 filter. I will pick up one later today from a friend who wants his filter replaced with a 3.1 . Same guy got rid of his S-line in the 70s for a TenTec because he couldn't get along with the sound. When he found out that the filter can be replaced, he went out and bought this one from the widow of a longtime friend. I should be able to put this on the air also for a demonstration.
I suspect the Griefkit rigs have a very gentle shape factor with their crystal filter.
Maybe a few tests and some audio clips posted can help this merry go round.
I'll try to post a sked for anyone here with a radio who might want to hear these.

[KG4RUL]

The filter on a TS2000 will tighten down to 1000Hz - 1400Hz.

[K6UEY]

73's= 21
73= Best Regards

I don't understand what the problem is,if you use a 2.8 KHz filter and roll off the bottom end at 400 HZ the top end is 2.8 that gives you a 2.4KHz bandpass,if any one can tell the difference on the air from a 2.3 band pass I would be amazed.
You want to roll the low end off as high as practical,all the power is used to pump out the low frequencies,so don't waste precious power going to 300 Hz when no one can tell the difference,but then again I should not have to tell an extra such things they already know !! It might be a good investment to have a 1.8 filter so when these ESSB guys move in next to you with their 7 to 10 KHz band pass that 1.8 might make the difference.Incidently I always get the 1.8 optional filter when I buy a new rig,it has saved the day more than once.
Remember there is NO rule in §Part 97 that states other Hams have to be considerate.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KG4RUL @ Sep. 02 2007,06:12)]The filter on a TS2000 will tighten down to 1000Hz - 1400Hz.
Ya beat me to it. TX will adjust down to 2.0 mega hurts.

[K0CRX]

Ten Tec Pegasus also offers many TX bandwidth options.

[KC9JIQ]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Sep. 01 2007,19:52)]From years of experience, I have found that the bandwidth of the transmitter is directly proportional to the mindwidth of the operator.

Those extremely narrow filters are hard to find because there is no demand for them. #The amateur community finally got fed up with listening to signals that sound like Donald Duck talking through a tin-can telephone.
..and yet we have some hams complaining about ESSB and AM 12kHz wide signals. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[NI3B]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Sep. 01 2007,17:09)]Quote[/b] (w4bd @ Sep. 01 2007,13:24)]Well he's a 13 WPM Extra. So now so much for calling him a ZERO WPM EXTRA.

73's
How does that work? A 13 wpm General who, after the code requirement was lowered to 5 wpm, became an Extra?

I do NOT mean to suggest I have a problem with that. I do not. But I don't recall there ever being a 13 wpm requirement for Extra class license. I think it went from 20 to 5 to zero. Did I miss a step?

Ed
I'm a 13 WPM Extra. I got my General in 1993 and passed the 13WPM at that time. The 13 WPM rating just means that person successfully passed that element. Also, the General test back then was a lot harder than today's Extra test.

Best,
Brian

[K9STH]

PIA, whoops, PIU:

There you go again! You are not speaking the truth!

The "military" model of the KWM-2 is the KWM-2A, NOTHING more! The KWM-2A differs from the KWM-2 in only 1 thing. The KWM-2A has an additional crystal socket "deck" which holds 14 more heterodyne oscillator crystals. This deck is mounted below the chassis and the crystals from the top board (usually amateur radio frequencies) are moved to this board. There is a switch on the front panel to allow switching between the 2 crystal decks. Also, there is a physical arrangement on this which moves a card that gives the frequency range.

There is a Collins Service Bulletin which covers the procedure to field convert the KWM-2 into a KWM-2A. This is SB-9 Rev 2.

All KWM-2A units came down the same production line at the Collins Radio Cedar Rapids plant and were availabe for civilian purchase as well as military purchase. There were NO differences in the units. If the order was from the military the next unit in line was shipped to the military. If the order was civilian (usually from an amateur radio operator but not always) the next unit in line unit was shipped.

ALL KWM-2 and KWM-2A units use side tone CW generation. Also, they do NOT have the ability to run AM unless the carrier balance potentiometer is misaligned which will insert the carrier which will allow a semblence of AM to be transmitted. This will be carrier plus one sideband and not both sidebands as in true AM. However, such is not routinely done in the field. There were some articles in amateur radio publications on adding AM capability to the KWM-2, KWM-2A, 32S-1, 32S-2, 32S-3, and 32S-3A with a modification which allows a switch to be added and a second carrier balance potentiometer to be added to allow the carrier to be inserted. But, this modification was not done by the U.S. military on units used in the field. Now individuals at some isolated MARS station may have done the modification to use on the amateur bands. However, such was not an "approved" modification by the military.

Now don't give me your "that was what I was told, or my experience tells me, etc.", for you are just "spouting off" giving information that is blatantly WRONG! The military used thousands of KWM-2A units and those were exactly the same as those sold to amateur radio operators. Much of the communications in Viet Nam was done using KWM-2A units.

As I have posted before, during the first Gulf War (Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm) the radio of "choice" was provided by Harris and was completely solid-state. Unfortunately, within days of deployment in Saudi Arabia the "front ends" of the receivers were destroyed by the voltage generated by blowing sand on the wire antennas used in the field. This caused some definite concern by the military officials. However, someone "remembered" a "stash" of Collins KWM-2A transceivers that was in the United States. Some of those units were immediately shipped to Saudi Arabia while the others were refurbished (at a very accelerated pace) in the United States. Then those units which had not been refurbished were checked in the field by retired Collins Radio employees who had been employed for this purpose.

Again, you are posting information that is just plain WRONG! You are inventing things just to make it appear that you are an "expert" in a field in which your knowledge is VERY limited.

Now the military often purchased the KWM-2A as part of an assembly which consisted of an aluminum carrying case, the KWM-2A transceiver, and PM-2 power supply, and an antenna that was able to be tuned for the frequency range of the KWM-2A (3.2 MHz to 30 MHz). However, the transceiver was IDENTICAL to that used by amateur radio operators.

Glen, K9STH

[VE7DCW]

Glen,you have a great skill of clarifying the subject at hand.It's much appreciated http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I just hope it left PIU speechless as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

73

[WS2L]

Quote[/b] (KG4RUL @ Sep. 02 2007,02:12)]The filter on a TS2000 will tighten down to 1000Hz - 1400Hz.
Yes it does and it is a nice feature that I sometimes use on my TS2000. For the most part I do not use this feature with the exception of Field Day http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K9STH]

DCW:

KA5PIU, a.k.a. "Cowthief" (a "handle" that he uses on various other forums), has been a "pain in the posterior" here on QRZ.com for many months. He really doesn't violate any of the "rules of the road" of this site and therefore there is no justification for banning him. Once-in-a-while he actually posts some good information. Unfortunately, this is such a rare occasion that it almost demands throwing a party.

Now I have been encouraging him to change his call to KA5PIA (which is available) because the suffix PIA much more describes what he is. I know that there are several people who post on QRZ.com that would definitely contribute to pay the expense for such a vanity call.

Myself, along with a few others, make it a point to correct PIU's outlandish claims whenever he make them because there may be "newcomers" to QRZ.com that might actually take the information that he provides as being correct and get into "trouble" as the result. Whenever he is "corrected" he either remains silent or else goes into some "excuse" mode to justify his statements. Unfortunately, he lives in the same state as I, Texas! Now Texans are known for "tall tales". However, those Texans who tell "tall tales" know that they are actually "tall tales". As for PIU sometimes I am not sure. There are times that I am led to believe that he really believes what he is writing is correct. But, most of the time, I am pretty sure that his eyes are blue because he definitely is at least a "quart low" (from being full of you know what).

Glen, K9STH

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KC9JIQ @ Sep. 02 2007,08:50)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Sep. 01 2007,19:52)]From years of experience, I have found that the bandwidth of the transmitter is directly proportional to the mindwidth of the operator.

Those extremely narrow filters are hard to find because there is no demand for them. The amateur community finally got fed up with listening to signals that sound like Donald Duck talking through a tin-can telephone.
..and yet we have some hams complaining about ESSB and AM 12kHz wide signals. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I think sometimes we miss the point of it all. Yes, great audio is something I enjoy listening to, but almost any idiot can get great fidelity in 12kHz on AM or 6kHz on SSB. The key is getting the best audio you can in =< 8kHz on AM and =< 3kHz on SSB. There are people out there doing it and they're not plastering the band around them for everyone else.

[al2n]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Sep. 02 2007,11:10)]DCW:

KA5PIU, a.k.a. "Cowthief" (a "handle" that he uses on various other forums), has been a "pain in the posterior" here on QRZ.com for many months. He really doesn't violate any of the "rules of the road" of this site and therefore there is no justification for banning him.

Glen, K9STH
K7FE would disagree with you.

Quote[/b] ]Some people have been banned for just being a PIA, disagreeable or being disrespectful of the Moderators.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

I may be a PITA, but I am correct more than most would admit.
And, give a listen some time.
When I am on HF, I have outstanding audio, crystal clear but not wide.
I run AM or USB as the norm, with a bit of FM in the mix, on 10 meters.
If I am on 160 it is always AM.
For VHF and above, 220 or 440 is the place for me.
I have been in the San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston area, all within the past 24 hours.
Right now, this very moment, I am in San Antonio.
Name the machine, I can work from 100 KHz to 999 MHz, and not only can one meet with me, I can give you a tour of the bell model 47 training aircraft.
Cameras will not be allowed, including cellphones, but talkies are fine, not my rules.
I will be here at least until 9, 5 hours.
As the saying goes, money talks,,,,,.

[K9STH]

PIU:

Your statement

"I may be a PITA, but I am correct more than most would admit" is correct in the first half and incorrect in the second half.

Your statements of fact are correct in only a very small percentage of cases. Now opinion statements are just that, opinion and therefore are more open for discussion. However, what you present as "facts" are usually so far out in left field as to be not only out of the ballpark but out of the county as well.

Glen, K9STH

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Sep. 01 2007,12:44)]Quote[/b] (n4bfd @ Sep. 01 2007,17:21)]Here ya go...

http://www.flex-radio.com/Products.aspx?topic=F5Ka_details

Has lots of dem dar extree mega hurtz as well http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
For those that have difficulty converting kilo-cycles to kilo-hurts, here's a handy chart.
Thank you for brightening my day.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I have looked everywhere for one of these.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

OK, I did 2 flights of around 30 minutes each, and have had 2 talkies on monitoring most ham repeaters in the San Antonio area while in ground school.
Nothing.
I am still on, and can work 10 or 160 meters as well.
Around 10:30 pm I will see what the night owl net is doing.
After that, sleep, morning prayers, and R&R.
Nothing on Monday, as this is a US holiday.
As the saying goes, and I held up my end of the deal.
So, for the estimated 2200 hams in the San Antonio area, and the people on this board being hams with operational stations, I would hope, nobody has been able to contact one of the local hams?
This is a hoilday weekend, the bands have been buzzing since Friday night, so I am not buying that there was no one on the air.
So, what is it?
Amateur Radio is all about communications, and I am very active, one of the reasons I hang on the board.
I really do like to get new hams up and running as well as the OF now and then.
Perhaps others may want to try this?

[ka5piu]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Sep. 02 2007,09:29)]PIA, whoops, PIU:

There you go again! #You are not speaking the truth!

The "military" model of the KWM-2 is the KWM-2A, NOTHING more! #The KWM-2A differs from the KWM-2 in only 1 thing. #The KWM-2A has an additional crystal socket "deck" which holds 14 more heterodyne oscillator crystals. #This deck is mounted below the chassis and the crystals from the top board (usually amateur radio frequencies) are moved to this board. #There is a switch on the front panel to allow switching between the 2 crystal decks. #Also, there is a physical arrangement on this which moves a card that gives the frequency range.

There is a Collins Service Bulletin which covers the procedure to field convert the KWM-2 into a KWM-2A. #This is SB-9 Rev 2.

All KWM-2A units came down the same production line at the Collins Radio Cedar Rapids plant and were availabe for civilian purchase as well as military purchase. #There were NO differences in the units. #If the order was from the military the next unit in line was shipped to the military. #If the order was civilian (usually from an amateur radio operator but not always) the next unit in line unit was shipped.

ALL KWM-2 and KWM-2A units use side tone CW generation. #Also, they do NOT have the ability to run AM unless the carrier balance potentiometer is misaligned which will insert the carrier which will allow a semblence of AM to be transmitted. #This will be carrier plus one sideband and not both sidebands as in true AM. #However, such is not routinely done in the field. #There were some articles in amateur radio publications on adding AM capability to the KWM-2, KWM-2A, 32S-1, 32S-2, 32S-3, and 32S-3A with a modification which allows a switch to be added and a second carrier balance potentiometer to be added to allow the carrier to be inserted. #But, this modification was not done by the U.S. military on units used in the field. #Now individuals at some isolated MARS station may have done the modification to use on the amateur bands. #However, such was not an "approved" modification by the military.

Now don't give me your "that was what I was told, or my experience tells me, etc.", for you are just "spouting off" giving information that is blatantly WRONG! #The military used thousands of KWM-2A units and those were exactly the same as those sold to amateur radio operators. #Much of the communications in Viet Nam was done using KWM-2A units.

As I have posted before, during the first Gulf War (Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm) the radio of "choice" was provided by Harris and was completely solid-state. #Unfortunately, within days of deployment in Saudi Arabia the "front ends" of the receivers were destroyed by the voltage generated by blowing sand on the wire antennas used in the field. #This caused some definite concern by the military officials. #However, someone "remembered" a "stash" of Collins KWM-2A transceivers that was in the United States. #Some of those units were immediately shipped to Saudi Arabia while the others were refurbished (at a very accelerated pace) in the United States. #Then those units which had not been refurbished were checked in the field by retired Collins Radio employees who had been employed for this purpose.

Again, you are posting information that is just plain WRONG! #You are inventing things just to make it appear that you are an "expert" in a field in which your knowledge is VERY limited. #

Now the military often purchased the KWM-2A as part of an assembly which consisted of an aluminum carrying case, the KWM-2A transceiver, and PM-2 power supply, and an antenna that was able to be tuned for the frequency range of the KWM-2A (3.2 MHz to 30 MHz). #However, the transceiver was IDENTICAL to that used by amateur radio operators.

Glen, K9STH
Hello.

I can call at least one member of this board misinformed.
http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....collins (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=158257;hl=collins)
The fact it, Collins radio had a special products section that produced, guess what? special products.
As you can see from the prior post, the military model was correctly IDed, and does in fact come with AM as an option, plug in the modulator, along with "Pure CW".
Read the prior post, do a websearch for the TM, you will see that this is in fact the case.
Correct, the Collins radio does very well in Saudi Arabia whereas the Pacer-Bounce thing has had nothing but trouble, I was there and know this first hand.
The major change from the US model and the built for the Arab military market model is, besides AM?
The front panel is in both English and Arabic.
The US market models that were converted have a tag that has all the modes, as the originals do not have an AM position.
The KWM-2 is an Amateur band only radio.
The KWM-2A radio has an extra set of bands.
What I call the military model of the KWM-2A is just that, the basic design of the KWM-2A, but with features added.
Except for real CW, AM, crypto connections, and a means of dumping the 800 volts into the lower HV section and AC into the filament supply, it is the same radio.
Anyone who has seen one knows.
Where the mic connector on a stock KWM-2(a) is sits a toggle switch under a red guard.
The fact that I pointed out the absence of this tells me that you have never seen one.
Very few radios have a red switch guard that says distruct.

[K9STH]

Yes, the military model of the KWM-2A did have a military part number. For all practical purposes everything sold to the military has a definite military part number. However, they were identical to the civilian KWM-2A right down to the model number on the front panel. They did NOT have AM capability nor did they use true CW.

The main military part number included the Samsonite designed metal suitcase, the transceiver itself, the PM-2 power supply (the one that is fully solid-state and mounts on the back of the transceiver), and the metal tape type antenna and feedline. Basically, the military version included everything except the AC power source necessary to set up a station.

There also was a military nomenclature which included the MP-1 mobile power supply as part of the "package". However, the basic transceiver was indeed a "standard" KWM-2A.

Now some radios may have been modified either at Cedar Rapids or in the field for specific encryption capabilities. But this does not involve any AM capabilities or modification to the CW generation. If I remember correctly, all that the encryption modification involved was to use one of the "spare" RCA phone jacks on the rear of the unit to "tie into" one of the i.f. stages. This was done to a relatively few units for very specialized applications. However, this does not change the design of the radio.

There were a very few prototype KWM-5000 radios made. This design had 2 PTOs, AM, CW, and SSB capabilities. It was based on the KWM-2 series but used circuitry closer to the 75S-3 and 32S-3 plus a whole lot more. The KWM-2 series was basically the 75S-1 / 32S-1 combined into the same package and definitely had all of the faults of the S-1 line.

See

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1055/1226548122_3a39a84ac6_o.jpg

for a photo of the KWM-5000.

There are numerous military KWM-2A units which have been retired and sold on the civilian market. They are identical to those sold originally to amateur radio operators.

Now there have been all sorts of modifications made to Collins equipment. However, such modifications do not make radios so modified "typical" of the product line. A few of these modifications may have been made by Collins Radio. But, the majority were made by 3rd party companies. This was true for all sorts of communications products starting before World War II. Many National receivers received modifications for use by the CAA (forerunner of the FAA) including adding a rudementary squelch. But, those units are not typical of the National product.

Glen, K9STH

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Sep. 02 2007,15:30)]Hello.

I may be a PITA, but I am correct more than most would admit.
And, give a listen some time.
When I am on HF, I have outstanding audio, crystal clear but not wide.
I run AM or USB as the norm, with a bit of FM in the mix, on 10 meters.
If I am on 160 it is always AM.
For VHF and above, 220 or 440 is the place for me.
I have been in the San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston area, all within the past 24 hours.
Right now, this very moment, I am in San Antonio.
Name the machine, I can work from 100 KHz to 999 MHz, and not only can one meet with me, I can give you a tour of the bell model 47 training aircraft.
Cameras will not be allowed, including cellphones, but talkies are fine, not my rules.
I will be here at least until 9, 5 hours.
As the saying goes, money talks,,,,,.
When are you on HF?

Don't tell me you speak Arabic... mine is rusty but we should arrange a sked.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Correct, and as some people who worked at the Collins factory pointed out, this is not the normal radio.
The reason for AM is quite clear, in more ways than one.
The encrypted signal was very much subject to errors from distortion, as it was nothing more than a super fancy form of voice inversion.
But it simply would not work with SSB and the drift-prone VFO of the era.
The other problem, Arabs use a lot more sounds than the English speaker, and the pitch has a lot to do with it.
So, Collins marketed this to several avenues.
The Arabs had the largest number of them, so the US military kept some in inventory.
In most Arab countries, SSB is now the norm, but AM is still used a lot.
And, to answer the question, yes, I speak Arabic, unless I am at the Islamic Center of San Antonio, but that is another story altogether. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My sked is almost random, I am on right now on 28.385 MHz, the band is dead.
I also like 160 meter AM, I listen far more than transmit.

[VE7DCW]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Sep. 02 2007,21:33)]Hello.

Correct, and as some people who worked at the Collins factory pointed out, this is not the normal radio.
The reason for AM is quite clear, in more ways than one.
The encrypted signal was very much subject to errors from distortion, as it was nothing more than a super fancy form of voice inversion.
But it simply would not work with SSB and the drift-prone VFO of the era.
The other problem, Arabs use a lot more sounds than the English speaker, and the pitch has a lot to do with it.
So, Collins marketed this to several avenues.
The Arabs had the largest number of them, so the US military kept some in inventory.
In most Arab countries, SSB is now the norm, but AM is still used a lot.
And, to answer the question, yes, I speak Arabic, unless I am at the Islamic Center of San Antonio, but that is another story altogether. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My sked is almost random, I am on right now on 28.385 MHz, the band is dead.
I also like 160 meter AM, I listen far more than transmit.
Like it's been said before...you could'nt pay for better entertainment http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif PIU thank you for making baseball's left field the place to be on QRZ. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

73

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The Collins designed R-390 radio does up to 32 MHz, and AM.
The reason for that is most Arab country, as well as all Warsaw pact, radios, have an overlap.
FM is used right down to around 25 MHz, and AM tops out at around 35 MHz.
The UN version of the AN/PRC-146, the UN/PRC-146, does 25 MHz to 550 MHz, for just such a reason.
The NATO forces stopped FM below 30 MHz after the AN/PRC-8.
The reason I bring up military radios and Amateur Radio is that almost all ham radio is bootleg in most Arab countries, it is the person playing with the military radio.
There is some legit Amateur Radio, of course, but not in all countries.
That is my primary interest, what the people are thinking, not what the government position is.

[K9STH]

PIU:

What does the fact that Collins designed R-390A can do AM and goes up to 32 MHz have to do with the subject? So do the Collins designed R-392 and a lot of other receivers.

Any receiver with a BFO (and these particular Collins designed receivers do have BFOs) can do CW and SSB. It is just that it takes a different procedure for those receivers that do not have product detectors to operate properly when receiving SSB. Also, there were external SSB adapter units made specifically for the R-390 series (as well as other receivers) which allowed SSB operation without any problems. The CV-591 series comes immediately to mind.

Remember that many Collins designed military receivers were built under license by a number of companies including Motorola, Stromberg-Carlson, etc. Those definitely include the R-390 series and the R-392.

As for "drifty" VFOs not allowing various types of encryption this may be true of many amateur radio manufacturers until at least the late 1960s and for a few (like Swan) they never did get the VFOs stable. However, those radios made by (or designed by) companies like Collins, Technical Material Corporation, etc., have been "rock solid" in frequency stability since at least the 1940s.

Glen, K9STH

[ka5piu]

Hello.

By drifty, I mean this in todays terms.
I have radios that will hold a frequency to 3 Hz from cold start to 24 hours.
The voice encryption used in that era used 16 oscillators that split the voice spectrum up.
This had to be reversed at the other end.
Unlike simple single frequency inversion, if the spectrum is a bit skewed and do not line up, and you get gibberish.
I had a real hard time finding out what type of encryption was used, even to this day there are concerns.
Anybody who knows me knows that I like to paint the larger equipment to match my "uniform" blue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I have an old Civil Defense radio that was repainted several times.
I have repainted it Orange, I did not like the original CD yellow.
And, the reason I bring up 32 MHz is that there are crystals for this series of radios that can bring the top end to 32 MHz.
As W0LPE pointed out, most of the radios for the special markets were built by Collins at another facility, but this was in fact Collins.
I just happen to have the radios, and they just happen to be Collins.
Each and every radio I have gotten was in what you would call fair to poor, but complete.
A bit of rust is normal, as well as worn lettering and dents.
Knobs may not be original or missing.
And, in every case, without exception, the meter glass was broken or there was no meter.
But, the filters have always been in place.
So, this never was prize Collins collector material.
But, with a bit of work, I get everything working.
I make no effort to replace the Collins logo, if it is there I clean it up and sell it.
I now have, in excellent restored condition, the desk microphone and speaker.
All with the correct logos.
Once this is sold, I will make an effort to replace them with operational equals.
And, the cycle will repeat.
Anything that is not colletor grade is fair game for a full rebuild.
Anything that is collector grade, or can be made that way, I will sell to my Japanese friends at unreal prices.
This is a win-win for everyone involved.