Someone needs to defend the men of Amateur Radio!!

[KD5TXD]

Someone needs to defend the men of Amateur Radio!! #

In the September 2007 issue of CQ Magazine on page 60 there is another book review of a truly anti Amateur Radio book. #The reviewer, William M. Klykylo, M.D., WA8FOZ, treated this feminist screed with kit gloves. #I guess Dr. Klykylo is afraid to make any waves. #

The book is titled “Ham Radio’s Technical Culture” by Kristen Haring, also some kind of elite doctor of something. #When I made the terrible error of actually purchasing her book thinking that I would finally be treated to an objective look at Amateur Radio I was grossly offended and disappointed. #This is a one-sided, take no prisoners, feminist attack on a most honorable hobby. #Dr. Klykylo equates the book to an “anthropological study”. #Anthropology, my plump posterior! #Dr. Haring treated Amateur Radio as if it were archeology drawing her Ham Radio Culture from hieroglyphics and broken pottery. #Amateur Radio and the people of the hobby are not the mummified dead. #Dr. Harring never talked to a single Amateur Radio operator of the time period her study is said to cover, 1930-1980. #Many, many of those Amateurs are still alive and could have set her straight. #But I don’t believe it was her intention to present an honest look at Amateur Radio’s Technical Culture. #She wanted to vent her own, personal, misanthropic view of the age in general. #It looks like she picked on Amateur Radio thinking it was a soft target and no one would be offended. #I am offended royally! #You should be, too.

So, instead of telling it like it is, with examples from her book, the reviewer, Dr. Klykylo gives her close to a total pass. #I am enraged that CQ Magazine and other Amateur Radio magazines continue to pump up Dr. Haring’s bigoted presentation. #Let me tell you why…

The first and most serious error Dr. Haring made was the decision not to interview any living breathing hams of that time period. There are many still alive and active in Amateur Radio. Many who did it all, WW2 vets, technicians and engineers of the 50's, pioneers of the space race, and first to peek into the new world of computers. But, no, Dr. Haring decided to simply read piles of old magazines, club news letters and manufacturer advertisements. Such reading material is a poor reflection of any technical culture. As an amateur astronomer I certainly wouldn't train my telescope on the surface of a lake to study the reflections of the stars and claim that I had a true and fair view of the heavens. Her technique is kin to just that, a study of a distorted reflection, which she took as gospel fact without any consideration for the vast humor and personalities of the writers. #Her book treats the distorted reflection as reality. #That is a profound error to say the least.

Dr. Haring fills much of the first part of her book with references to what she wants to be the masculine image of ham radio. She doesn't define what she means by "masculine" other than a series of recitations from club news letter and magazine articles describing questionable behavior of men at club outings, page 41. This kind of activity simply applies to all corners of the culture of the age and continues today for both men’s and women's groups. #And, HELLO!!!! Much of the writing is humor, satire, and exaggeration. #It tells about as much about a ham radio technical culture as saying the grass is green or ducks quack. She also does not objectively balance her bad boy observations with any references to the majority of hams who were and are honorable gentlemen and ladies. She could have INTERVIEWED some of the founders of the 7290 Traffic Net who hold an annual family oriented picnic where the most risqué event of the day is which flavor of homemade ice cream to serve, vanilla or strawberry. The 7290 Traffic Net was founded in 1953, well within the stated study period of 1930-1980. Plus, some of the founders are still alive, active and available for interviews.

Several pages are used to describe how women hams were marginalized and kept out of the hobby associations. The information I have from my life experiences are just the opposite. However, I have actually talked to ham radio operators of that age. Women were and are welcomed. The restrictions Dr. Haring refers to in her reading of the literature of the time reflects the culture as a whole. Toastmasters International of that age was even more restrictive of women participating as members.

Ham radio has been promoted to various groups over the years to encourage new members for the hobby. Dr. Haring discusses the Boy Scouts as being one of those groups, page 43, that ham radio welcomed new members from. She uses that as part of her theory that ham radio was exclusive of women. Yet in the late 50's my own Bluebird troop, one of the girls' versions of Cub Scouts, was invited to a neighbor's ham shack where he kindly showed all of his ham gear to the girls. He then made the same invitation to the Bluebirds as to the Cub Scouts. If any one of us would like to become a ham radio operator he would, with our parent's approval, teach us. Dr. Haring didn't bother to mention events such as that because she refused to actually talk to any hams in her research. And such a simple statement would throw cold water on her bigoted conclusions that the ham community discouraged women from participation and membership.

Dr. Haring worries excessively on page 47 about women hams being marginalized in the ham community and confined to bringing the refreshments to club meetings. Dr. Haring may not realize that there weren't any Krispy Cream franchises in the 40's and 50's. Few fast food outlets of any kind existed. Women of the age actually cooked and baked for their families, their other club interests, and so it is reasonable and part of the culture as a whole of the age for the ladies to bring the refreshments. What nonsense! With the advent of fast food, men in modern ham clubs tend to bring the refreshments.

Also on page 47, Dr. Haring describes something she read about the Northern California DX Club when they first accepted a woman member in 1963 some of the men of the club stood up and walked out, never to return to the club. Funny, the premier Toastmaster club in Houston, Texas, finally allowed female membership some time in the early 1990's and that day some of the men in the club stood up and walked out, never to return. This kind of event and relationship has little to do with ham radio's technical culture and everything to do with the standard, overall culture of the times. #So what is the point of trashing the men of Amateur Radio?

By using gender as the definition of "masculine" in her presentation, Dr. Haring has failed to differentiate ham radio's culture as any different from the general culture of the age. She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio. Of all of the clubs, organizations, professional societies, and groups of the middle of the twentieth century, ham radio has been the most inclusive. In ham radio there are no boundaries. The air waves belong to all of the human race and are owned by none. There are no national boundaries, no cultural boundaries, no racial boundaries, no ethnic boundaries, no religious boundaries, no age boundaries, no physical health boundaries, no class boundaries, and no gender boundaries. Her presentation is bogus and flawed!

Now if Dr. Haring had used a philosophical definition of “masculine” she would have achieved a much better view of the Technical Culture of Ham Radio. #What is a philosophical definition of “masculine”? #Masculine: aggressive as in working at a problem until is gets solved, creative as in looking outside the box to find the answer to the problem, and independent as in not needing group-think to achieve goals. #She chose gender only as the definition to make an automatic and expected exclusion of women and to prop up her preconceived sexist view. #Please don’t tell me you never met a woman with those qualities.

Dr. Haring goes on to discuss for pages and pages how successful hams were in engineering and technical jobs. Their tinkering with radio gave them a valuable understanding of how electronics worked and a leg up into numerous industries. But when it comes to the space race, Dr. Haring decides it is time to belittle the contribution of hams to the space race, page 87. She says that the ham publications’ promotion of pride in the efforts of hams in the space race is overrated. Funny again, I happen to personally know the ham who programmed the first shuttle arm simulator. I am sure if Dr. Haring had actually talked to any hams at all she would have found many participating in important rolls. But she chose to belittle the contributions hams made. #She actively chose not to balance her negatives with anything positive about the age. #Also, not a peep about amateur satellite communications, another dash forward into the technology of the infant space age.

On page 64-66 Dr. Haring describes how hams had to be begged and coaxed to accept transistors, preferring to live their lives by the warm glow of vacuum tubes. She just spent pages describing how successful and cutting edge hams were in their professions and turns on a dime to present them as backward looking technology cowards, rejecting transistors. She bases this conclusion on CARTOON CHARACTERS in manufactures' advertisements. What a profound insult to hams! Now if Dr. Haring had bothered to actually talk to even a few hams of that age she would have discovered different.

Our local ham club has a Sunday morning breakfast which has been going on for 40 years. Yes, women hams have always been welcome and fully accepted. Gosh, even non ham wives were welcome and after their ham husbands passed away the hams worked hard to maintain the welcome for the widows. In that group, on a recent Sunday morning, were two old timers who passed from the vacuum tube age into the computer age. I asked them specifically how they felt when that change happened. One gentleman's eyes lit up and he said WE, meaning the group of hams he associated with at that time, “were thrilled and excited and couldn't wait to get our hands on transistors for experimentation”. He turned to the other ham of that vintage and asked his reaction. He also beamed, remembering his own excitement at the technology change. They then devolved into reminiscences of the particular transistors they had used, naming them by manufacturer part numbers as if they were naming old friends. But Dr. Haring never bothered to talk to any hams of the age. Her conclusions were magically conjured from manufactures' advertisements.

Pages and pages are spent on the topic of how ham radio limited romance and damaged marriages. Again, Dr. Haring never talked to any hams or their families. She couldn't hear about the 14 year old girl ham radio operator who struck up a friendship with a young man on CW novice bands and would years later marry him. They are both still active in the hobby that played matchmaker. Nor did Dr. Haring bother to talk to the wife who worked diligently with her husband so he could master CW and pass his licensing test. They are still teamed up on CW teaching other hams to master the language of CW decades later. There is the ham wife, XYL, whose ham husband would scour the local dump for discarded electronic equipment. He would collect parts and build radios for free in his shack. Soon as the radio worked he put it up on the shelf and returned to the dump to scrounge more parts for another radio. The wife couldn't understand why he wouldn't talk on those radios he made. She studied for her ham license, passed, and has been talking on the radio ever since. There is the ham couple who had to be apart from each other for work and family duties for a number of months. They set up radios at each of their locations so they could keep a daily schedule on the radio back in the days before inexpensive long distance phone service and free cell phone minutes. Dr. Haring didn't bother to talk to the many, many hams who taught their sons and daughters about ham radio. It is very common for ham families to include three generations and the ladies are an active part of the action. You can't get that kind of cultural information from reading manufacturer advertisements and QST.

Someone needs to do some serious scolding of Dr. Haring for neglecting 90% of the technical culture of ham radio. I ask a simple question: would I be a credible author of a book on the Scandinavian culture of Minnesota if I had never bothered to talk to any Scandinavians in Minnesota? Would I be a credible author of a book on Hispanic culture if I had read everything about Hispanic culture but never talked to a Hispanic? Well, this is what Dr. Haring did: she read a lot about hams but didn't actually interview any. I am left with the impression that she is either lazy or cowardly or both; too lazy to do the research into the actual culture of ham radio by talking to hams, and too cowardly to risk the possibility of having her bigoted, biased, preconceived and narrow minded ideas shown to be in error. It looks to me like Dr. Haring's rehash of tired old feminist complaints of the mid twentieth century is just an effort to earn her feminist credentials at the expense of a beautiful, inclusive, and challenging technical culture. I regret spending the money on this book. To the hams out there, don't bother buying her screed, spend your money on connectors and coax instead.

Patricia Allison, KD5TXD, Amateur Extra, ORS, VE, BPL…(oh, yes, and woman ham)

[n8yx]

...write the nice lady a letter and therein, request that she bake a cake for you...

That ought to do it.

[kl7aj]

I think said biased author would be more inclined to listen to you than to any of us of the brutish male persuasion. I think you could give her a most eloquent tongue-lashing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

eric

[WB2WIK]

Patricia, I have to take some time to read your entire post: I suspect it may be about as long as the subject book. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I wonder why anyone would write a book about this? Seems to me its sales would be somewhere between very small and nonexistent. Is it self-published?

Anyway, I'll be happy to write nasty stuff about this book if I ever find a copy of it to browse. It doesn't seem to be on the shelf at my local newsstand. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2WIK/6

[KA4DPO]

First of all TXD let me say that you are quite a good writer yourself. #It took me a while to read your synopsys of the book but it is very well done.

As for the author of the book in question, I suspect your assessment about amateur radio being an easy target is spot on. #She's obviously looking for credibility with other like minded feminists who can't get dates either and thought those nerdy hams won't fight back.

I seem to recall the society was very different then. #There were few if any women in the auto industry, in steel mills, or just about everything else you can think of. #That didn't begin to change until the 60s and seems archaic now days. #Perhaps I should ask Dr. Haring to iron my shirts for me. #That should be enough to spark a dialogue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Aug. 30 2007,11:14)]I seem to recall the society was very different then. #There were few if any women in the auto industry, in steel mills, or just about everything else you can think of.
What about between 1941 and 1945 when women pretty much ran every factory in America?

Didn't the same thing happen during WW1 also?

Seems to me the "housewife" didn't really come into existence until maybe 1946 or so, and lasted until maybe the 80s when people realized 2-income households were more likely to survive...?

[N4AUD]

Here it is at MIT Press... (http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=10967)

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 30 2007,12:49)]Someone needs to defend the men of Amateur Radio!!

In the September 2007 issue of CQ Magazine on page 60 there is another book review of a truly anti Amateur Radio book. The reviewer, William M. Klykylo, M.D., WA8FOZ, treated this feminist screed with kit gloves. I guess Dr. Klykylo is afraid to make any waves.
Worked All Eight French Owned Zoos is a poster on this forum...

[kc9jqm]

And here it is at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Radios-Technical-Culture-Inside-Technology/dp/0262083558)

Along with the original post in this thread
as a review.

[KD5TXD]

N8YX and KL7AJ, wish I could write Dr. Haring a letter. #I read this book a few months back when I saw it reviewed in QST. #Made me mad then, too. #I hunted the internet to try to find her listed in the think tank thingie that she was supposed to be part of and at MIT but could not find any way to contact her. #

WB2WIK, in my opinion, the reason people write these kinds of books is to preserve historical perspectives of different groups of people and to learn from how they fit into history. #I really expected a much more objective presentation. #All of my experience with Amateur Radio is subjective. #I know the difference between objective and subjective. #Dr. Haring abandoned the objective aspect of research when she chose not to talk to Amateur Radio Operators. #Her presentation is just as subjective as my little stories of my ham pals. #Someone doing professional research is traditionally supposed to aim at objectivity even when that objectivity leads the researcher away from their pet preconceived notions.

KA4DPO and WB2WIK(again), Yes, it was a very different world. #You can also take a historical look at women in the telegraph office. #There is a great book “My Sisters Telegraphic” by Thomas C. Jespen which looked at women working as telegraphers from 1846 to the 1950’s. #Now he had the valid problem of very few telegraphers still being alive, unlike Dr. Haring who simply ignored the living Amateur Radio Operators. #Yet Mr. Jespen seemed to make a very well rounded presentation of that Victorian work world. #That is a book I highly recommend for good history and good reading. #He presents the success and the problems they faced. #He lucked into an actual autobiography of a woman telegrapher of the early 1900’s which really rounded his book well.

73!!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[W7WV]

Get 'em Pat! Irish by chance? I'm Irish and German with the temper of both I am told.
As Hams we may be considered leftovers of a time gone by for some.
I don't really care what people think about me or what I do.
I have worked long and hard at it.

[ab1ga]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Aug. 30 2007,13:08)]I wonder why anyone would write a book about this? #Seems to me its sales would be somewhere between very small and nonexistent. #Is it self-published?
Nope, published by MIT Press, and available from Amazon.com for less than $20, now. Author has a PhD from Harvard in History of Science, I gather was visiting at Columbia.

I haven't read the book, but judging from the content of the reviews and the description above, I doubt the volume will find an enduring place on the sales lists. It seems unusual that a trained historian would not make use of available primary sources and limit herself to artifacts; I suspect that she took this course due to lack of time, money, or energy. It's sad, in a way; ham radio is a fascinating activity shared by people from many different cultures, yet for generally similar reasons, and a good history of the hobby would be a fine thing to write.

But there's the rub, our options are limited. We can:

a. Vent our spleen here. Necessary, and refreshing, but not likely to change the perception of hams or their hobby outside the group.

b. Rebuttal reviews. Amazon mentions that the book was reviewed in Wilson Quarterly, Bookforum, and QST. A "second opinion" review, sent to Wilson and Bookforum, would offset the misconceptions somewhat, maybe.

c. A new, rigorous history of amateur radio and its role in society. A thesis topic. Any history majors out there? The only option for lasting change of perception.

'TXD, you need to pare down your post here, formalize the language a bit, and send it to Wilson Quarterly and Bookforum. And although I don't think that the men of amateur radio need defending, I do think that all of us would be grateful to you for your spirited and competent support of our shared, sex-neutral avocation.

73,

[kc9jqm]

Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?

[ab1ga]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,14:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
Because this site has the ability to attract the meanest, grumpiest, surliest, pompous old bulls of ham radio, and then exposes them to the most argumentative, sensitive, masochistic, whiny red-cape-waving element of amateur radio, and then provides them both with an arena and a bloodthirsty audience to whom neither side can resist playing.

Everyone else is having fun playing radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K0RGR]

Nice article, Pat.

It sounds like the book's author is severely misguided.

If you want a great ham radio book, go get 'Hello World - A Life in Ham Radio' by Danny Gregory and Paul Sahre.

This book uses the QSL cards of an long time ham to explore his lifetime. The authors tell stories about each of the cards they use in the book, about what was happening at the time the contact was made. In some cases, the people on the other end had very interesting lives, which are related in the book.

It's also a very beautiful book. I'd never considered QSL cards as art objects before. This book was a best-seller for a while as an attractive 'coffee-table' book.

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,12:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
KC9JQM, simple, the anonymous quality of the internet. #

Also, it is like the male club members who walked out of the ham club when a woman was given membership as noted by Dr. Haring in her book. #They are thankfully rare.

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Aug. 30 2007,12:08)]'TXD, you need to pare down your post here, formalize the language a bit, and send it to Wilson Quarterly and Bookforum. And although I don't think that the men of amateur radio need defending, I do think that all of us would be grateful to you for your spirited and competent support of our shared, sex-neutral avocation.

73,
AB1GA, thanks for the idea. #I might just be mad enough to do that. #

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,12:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
This has to do everything to do with their behavior/attitude, nothing to do with the legal requirement.

[wa1bhv]

They need a jolt from a 220 ps to bring them to reality

[ky5u]

Everyone please read the book reviews (http://astore.amazon.com/hamcram-20/detail/0262083558) and see Patricia's comments.

One of the reviews actually calls the book a "Valentine" for Amateur radio. The general feeling from the professional reviewers is that this is a very pro-Amater Radio book. Then we have Patricia's comments on the bottom. Were they reading the same book? I have not read it and guess now I will if for no other reason than to see why this difference of opinion.

Let's reserve our irate reactions until more of you read the book. In other words, let's hear both sides of the story.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Aug. 30 2007,11:08)]Patricia, I have to take some time to read your entire post: I suspect it may be about as long as the subject book. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I wonder why anyone would write a book about this? Seems to me its sales would be somewhere between very small and nonexistent. Is it self-published?

Anyway, I'll be happy to write nasty stuff about this book if I ever find a copy of it to browse. It doesn't seem to be on the shelf at my local newsstand. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2WIK/6
The "self-published" aspect may be true. It really sounds like someone took their Master's thesis (or Doctoral dissertation) and decided to stroke their ego; perhaps after a degree in Multimedia or even simply in the history of the published media itself, as represented by/related to Amateur Radio. (You can find ALL KINDS of weird subjects for the study leading to higher academic degrees... )

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 30 2007,14:17)]Everyone please read the book reviews (http://astore.amazon.com/hamcram-20/detail/0262083558) and see Patricia's comments.

One of the reviews actually calls the book a "Valentine" for Amateur radio. The general feeling from the professional reviewers is that this is a very pro-Amater Radio book. #Then we have Patricia's comments on the bottom. #Were they reading the same book? #I have not read it and guess now I will if for no other reason than to see why this difference of opinion.

Let's reserve our irate reactions until more of you read the book. In other words, let's hear both sides of the story.
AG4YO, Yes, that was a professional reviewer. #Funny how positive the professional reviewers are. #

By all means, read the book. #Check out the section on page 36 that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to make their hobby "masculine"...why?? #because of the GE ad duplicated on page 38 which Dr. Haring, from her modern perspective, interpreted as less than "masculine" or a bit gay. #

Dr. Haring found something threatening about men talking to men. #She identified it from magazine articles, club newsletters, and manufacturer ads. #She didn't talk to any Amateurs and ask the simple question, "Why do you like talking on the radio so much?" #It is spun throughout the book. #All the professional reviewers presented the good parts and good reviews. #None of them questioned her failure to talk to living breathing Amateur Radio Operators. #No one questioned the lack of balance in her presentation of the bad boy image that she harps on for pages. #Someone had to do a bit of scolding. #

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[ky5u]

Pat,

If you don't mind me asking, what age group do you fall into? I have had a theory concerning the thinking processes in the 40s/50s and the 60s/70s being philosophically different and what that is based on. You can PM me if you rather not say in public and I promise to honor your wish.

[kc9jqm]

Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg

[AE6IP]

Well, any thesis that can win the author an IEEE Life Member's Prize then turned into a book that MIT press is willing to publish which receives glowing praise and angry diatribes must be worth reading.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Aug. 30 2007,12:19)]Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,14:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
Because this site has the ability to attract the meanest, grumpiest, surliest, pompous old bulls of ham radio, and then exposes them to the most argumentative, sensitive, masochistic, whiny red-cape-waving element of amateur radio, and then provides them both with an arena and a bloodthirsty audience to whom neither side can resist playing.

Everyone else is having fun playing radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
But you neglected to mention that it also includes some of the BEST and most knowledgeable in Amateur Radio at this time: Persons such as Glen K9STH, Steve WB2WIK/6, Alan K0BG, and many others, too numerous to mention (or remember at this time.)

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,17:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
Schlitz = Beer?

RECANT THIS BLASPHEMY LEST YE BE SMITTEN WITH THE WOUFF-HONG AND RETTYSNITCH!

[ab1ga]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Aug. 30 2007,18:01)]Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Aug. 30 2007,12:19)]Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,14:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
Because this site has the ability to attract the meanest, grumpiest, surliest, pompous old bulls of ham radio, and then exposes them to the most argumentative, sensitive, masochistic, whiny red-cape-waving element of amateur radio, and then provides them both with an arena and a bloodthirsty audience to whom neither side can resist playing.

#Everyone else is having fun playing radio. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
But you neglected to mention that it also includes some of the BEST and most knowledgeable in Amateur Radio at this time: #Persons such as #Glen K9STH, #Steve WB2WIK/6, Alan #K0BG, and many others, too numerous to mention (or remember at this time.)
Granted, but I don't consider them responsible for the unfriendly threads referred to earlier, and so beyond the scope of my reply.

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 30 2007,15:02)]Pat,

If you don't mind me asking, what age group do you fall into? #I have had a theory concerning the thinking processes in the 40s/50s and the 60s/70s being philosophically different and what that is based on. #You can PM me if you rather not say in public and I promise to honor your wish.
AG4YO, CW is a real blast. #I get a kick out of rag chewing with the oldtimers on CW. #After we have exchanged RST, rig info, and weather conditions the oldtimer proudly announces his age (say 75, 82), tells what he did as a career and asks me how hold I am and what I do/did for a living. #

The thinking processes are significantly philosophically different between your two stated time periods. #No theory needed there. #It's fact. #And that is why you see Dr. Haring having such a hard time with women bringing the refreshments to club meetings. #She writes outside of direct understanding of the 40's and 50's, in my opinion. #For Dr. Haring's modern point of view, it is considered being "marginalized" to bring refreshments. #In reality it was nothing more than being civilized and friendly. #She wrote outside of her direct knowledge and didn't verify her theories by talking to any real people, especially Amateur Radio Operators of the age. #That is my main bone of contention. #Her presentation is distorted and unbalanced making it bad research. #I don't give a hoot if she has been blessed by IEEE, etc. #Their "bridges" fall down, too.

You can see the same kind of philosophical thinking difference in the 1850's when women, who needed and wanted to make an honest and independent living, entered the career of telegraphy. #Need forces such events. #Unfortunately the needs of the early 60's were hijacked and still have not been recovered. #

I am 56, retired, which puts me alive and understanding in the age of the stay-at-home mom as the standard. #It also puts me coming of age when the highschool counsilor still offered only four options for employment to female students: mommy, secretary, elementary school teacher and nurse. #A personal situation put me in serious need of producing an livable income. #Being a very selfish individual I landed myself a job as a computer operator with CDC when I was 18 years old. #While my female peers were whining and protesting about liberation I was living liberation. #

Ok, your theory?

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[KE5FRF]

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/6828/piesmyp3.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist poluting this intelligent thread with a little crude humor. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WD8OQX]

http://www.nodnc.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/thumb_feminazi.JPG

[ky5u]

Thanks Pat. Let me read the book before I try to reach any conclusions...LOL! FYI we're the same age.

[n6hcm]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 30 2007,11:54)]N8YX and KL7AJ, wish I could write Dr. Haring a letter. I read this book a few months back when I saw it reviewed in QST. Made me mad then, too. I hunted the internet to try to find her listed in the think tank thingie that she was supposed to be part of and at MIT but could not find any way to contact her.
summary biography at MIT press doesn't suggest a MIT affiliation. (http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/author/default.asp?aid=33123)

that's probably why you couldn't find dr haring there.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 29 2007,17:29)]While my female peers were whining and protesting about liberation I was living liberation. #

Ok, your theory?

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD
Pat! You're my hero! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Oh and BTW, I am a lot younger and cuter than Charlie.... thought you might need to know that. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AE6IP]

If you wish to contact Doctor Haring, you have several options.

You may write her care of her publisher, the MIT press.

You may write her care of the Keith Haring Foundation, of which she is a director.

You may write her care of the The Bard Graduate Center, where she is visiting faculty.

I am now very much looking forward to reading my copy of the book, which I have ordered through Amazon this afternoon.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Gone with the wind had an intermission, so people could go and do what they had to do.
Perhaps the readers digest and cliffs notes treatment is in order.
And, yes, woman! bake me a cake!
Perhaps we can just go out as a group of "men" and just beat the hell out of her, that should do it.
Hell, I feel more like a man just thinking about it.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Aug. 30 2007,23:30)]I am now very much looking forward to reading my copy of the book, which I have ordered through Amazon this afternoon.
I ordered yesterday too. I would suggest people READ the book before getting their knickers in a knot.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Aug. 30 2007,16:30)]http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/6828/piesmyp3.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist poluting this intelligent thread with a little crude humor. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My pot pie, Kitty!

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Aug. 30 2007,07:21)]Nice article, Pat.

It sounds like the book's author is severely misguided.

If you want a great ham radio book, go get 'Hello World - A Life in Ham Radio' by Danny Gregory and Paul Sahre.

This book uses the QSL cards of an long time ham to explore his lifetime. The authors tell stories about each of the cards they use in the book, about what was happening at the time the contact was made. In some cases, the people on the other end had very interesting lives, which are related in the book.

It's also a very beautiful book. I'd never considered QSL cards as art objects before. This book was a best-seller for a while as an attractive 'coffee-table' book.
sounds like, "The Red Violin".

[NN3W]

I'm mostly done reading the book, and will give my opinions on it later. Nonethless, the book has several valid points from the sections I have read earlier. The mere fact that 95% of all hams are males kinda proves the point...

BTW, she will be in Washington DC in October speaking to a couple radio clubs.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Aug. 30 2007,16:30)]http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/6828/piesmyp3.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist poluting this intelligent thread with a little crude humor. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ROFL!

I -really- need to save this for later use... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Aug. 31 2007,00:46)]I'm mostly done reading the book, and will give my opinions on it later. #Nonethless, the book has several valid points from the sections I have read earlier. #The mere fact that 95% of all hams are males kinda proves the point...

BTW, she will be in Washington DC in October speaking to a couple radio clubs.
that will probably go over well.

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Aug. 30 2007,11:19)]Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,17:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
Schlitz = Beer?

RECANT THIS BLASPHEMY LEST YE BE SMITTEN WITH THE WOUFF-HONG AND RETTYSNITCH!
what kind of dork wears dress clothes like that at his own station, this ad so SO fake. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

on a side note: did anyone look up the calls on the wall?

[NN3W]

Same kind of dork that drinks Schlitz....

[KB3NDN]

do you think his wife spun up that seat cover fashioned with his call sign?

[ab1ga]

Quote[/b] (KB3NDN @ Aug. 31 2007,08:12)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Aug. 30 2007,11:19)]Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,17:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
Schlitz = Beer?

RECANT THIS BLASPHEMY LEST YE BE SMITTEN WITH THE WOUFF-HONG AND RETTYSNITCH!
what kind of dork wears dress clothes like that at his own station, this ad so SO fake. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

on a side note: did anyone look up the calls on the wall?
Jumping to a few conclusions, aren't you?

Fact is, men before the second world war often wore a shirt and tie, even at home. You can easily find photos of crowds at baseball games and yes, the men are wearing ties on the hottest August afternoons. Men also always wore hats when outdoors. In the days before television, people did a lot more in-home entertaining, especially on warm summer evenings.

And yes, women did bring their husbands drinks after they got home from work. Sometimes it was beer, in other households a pitcher or martinis was mixed up. Then you had dinner with your family, went out or had friends over, listened to radio shows, etc. And yes, needlepoint was in fact one of the things women did when listening to the radio shows, along with knitting, crochet, tatting, and other lost arts. So the seat cover is also in keeping with the times, although it's just as likely a teenage daughter mad that particular item, based on the simplicity of the stitching displayed.

And now to the beer. Whatever pretensions today's self-proclaimed connoisseurs may think of it, Schlitz was a nationwide, popular brand, like Bud might be today; it's not surprising that Schlitz could afford or would place an ad in a magazine. And there were a number of magazines dedicated to radio at that time, so the size of the potential market could have been enough to justify running the ad.

Now the call signs could be troublesome, and may indicate fakery, but I don't have enough information to be sure. I know that before WWII the Japanese hams had "J" calls, the single letter prefix, so that's consistent. But I'm not sure about the "L" call and the "X" call (Mexico even then?), so we need an OT here to shed some light on the situation.

This ad could certainly be a fake, and to try and judge it without a reference to its source would be foolish. But if it is a fake then someone went to a whole lot of trouble with a whole lot of skill to produce it.

[n2cfj]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,15:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
Any activity, especially during that time period, that is technically oirentated will be mostly "masculine". In 1966, the engineering college I spent my freshman year at had a male female ratio of 500:1. Most women of that period who had some technical skills, developed them because thay needed those particular skills to do what they had to do and not, as was the case with males, because society said they should be facinated by them.

This also has to do with the differences in thought processes between men and women. (Before you pull out the flame throwers, there are differences in process and problem solving but I never said or will say, except in jest, that one is better than the other).

[KB3NDN]

when i said fake i was being sarcasatic. ;)

[KA4DPO]

That's actually a very authentic advertisement from the early 1950s. Note the National NC-183, it looks like someone drew a picture of an actual station. As for the XYL, I've been trying to train mine to do that but she just won't learn. I don't get it...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KE5FRF]

This topic makes me long for days before I was even born.


Dale ab1ga eloquantly writes about an era that I consider the "Golden Age" of America. As with everything, an entire era can't be acuratley summed up with generalizations but it does open a window into the lives of people in the past.

I think we make some false assumptions today about women in those years. The assumption is that homemakers were prisoners, slaves, secretly and begrudgingly plotting their "liberation". I think it is also false to assume that all women of the time were forceably held back from participating in the world of technology at the suppressive hands of their male captors.

I think this is the case in some instances, and I'm glad that women have been accepted in the workforce.

But the truth of the matter is that back in those days most women WERE HAPPY staying at home, taking care of their families, pampering their spouses in appreciation for his dedication to providing for the family's well-being. Most women had no interest in technology. And even today with all the equal opportunity that women have to participate in technology (such as amateur radio), how many women do? less than 10% of the amateur population? Less than 5%? Even with the opportunity granted them, ladies like Pat, Dee, Barb, and some of the other female hams who post on this forum are of unique quality. This does not mean they are masculine...not at all. It just means that some influence or event in their life gave them an interest. And that's great! Personally, I'm intrigued and fascinated with female hams. I enjoy every rare QSO that I have with one!

I believe that women like the author of this book make a false assumption. The assumption is that the general female population back in the 30,s, 40's, 50's, and even 60's were just busting to run out and get ham licenses. And that the assumption is that men were telling them they couldn't. Did it ever occur that most women didn't even CARE to get involved? Can we not look around us today and see that this is still by and large true?

It is true that in general the female mind is different from the male mind. But how can we qualify that this indicates superiority or inferiority? It is, IMHO, a false premise to think that being technically inclined means "superior". It just doesn't. many women throughout history have proven superior artists, poets, songwriters, musicians. Arenas of creative genius. While many men have succeeded in those areas too, it is all about being in touch with that part of the brain.

I believe in years gone by, women saw value in being the glue that held families together. They saw value in being mothers...which is in my opinion the greatest "job" ever bestowed upon anyone.

I believe divorce rates are at an all time high largely because somewhere along the way, women were told by feminists that the were being held back by men...they were convinced that if they didn't act like men, they'd be percieved as inferior to men. Funny...do you not see the irony in that? Women don't want to be seen as inferior, so to become equal they must act like men, live in the male world. That is illogical because it is as good as admitting that women are by nature inferior and that they must step outside some natural boundary in order to be equal! Hogwash!

[KB1NIV]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 29 2007,18:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
The Schlitz ad with the ham radio operator appeared in the January 7, 1952 issue of Life magazine - A copy of the magazine can be purchased here: http://www.2neatmagazines.com/life/1952.html http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KI4ITV]

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Aug. 30 2007,07:19)]Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,14:08)]Quote[/b] ]She has painted ham radio as exclusive when it has never been. If you pass the test you are in, you are part of the society of amateur radio.

Then how do you explain all the threads here in which
newbies/no-coders/ex-CBers/digital elite/whatever____
(fill in the blanks) are blamed for destroying amateur radio
and/or are not real hams?
Because this site has the ability to attract the meanest, grumpiest, surliest, pompous old bulls of ham radio, and then exposes them to the most argumentative, sensitive, masochistic, whiny red-cape-waving element of amateur radio, and then provides them both with an arena and a bloodthirsty audience to whom neither side can resist playing.

#Everyone else is having fun playing radio. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
HAHAHahahaha!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
That should be posted on the front page of QRZ, under the heading "WARNING-PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING"

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (kc9jqm @ Aug. 30 2007,15:02)]Quote[/b] ]...that discusses how Amateurs felt compelled to
make their hobby "masculine"...why??

Manly men on the radio and their wives serve beer...
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/radioschlitz.jpg
I notice that artwork was done by John FalterJohn Falter (http://www.tfaoi.com/aa/2aa/2aa64.htm)

We need another guy like him in the hobby.

[kl7aj]

Check out what this lady is doing. I wonder if Falter was a ham?Another Falter illustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg )

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 31 2007,04:05)]Check out what this lady is doing. #I wonder if Falter was a ham?Another Falter illustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg )
that is a pretty cool illustration.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9d/It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 31 2007,11:05)]Check out what this lady is doing. #I wonder if Falter was a ham?Another Falter illustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg )
Of course I have no idea.

But I too did some googling, and he seems to be an illustrator in the vien of Norman Rockwell. Saturday Evening Post, Life, magizines like that wanted artists depicting mainstream Americana in their ads and articles and it is no surprise that short wave radio would be part of that.


<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Norman-Rockwell-1991-Radio-Operator-Collector-Plate_W0QQitemZ260154643052QQihZ016QQcategor
yZ11639QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Norman Rockwell "Radio Operator" plate</a>

Was Rockwell a ham?

[kl7aj]

Here

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (KB3NDN @ Aug. 31 2007,06:12)]what kind of dork wears dress clothes like that at his own station, this ad so SO fake. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Bob Hisamoto, KL7AM, did.

[ky5u]

Today's Amateur Version...

[n2cfj]

Quote[/b] (KB3NDN @ Aug. 31 2007,09:10)]Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 31 2007,04:05)]Check out what this lady is doing. #I wonder if Falter was a ham?Another Falter illustration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg )
that is a pretty cool illustration.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9d/It%27s_a_Woman%27s_War_Too%21_%281942%29.jpg
Is that a bug she is working?

[wz0o]

Give them hell Patricia. Its like the statement if ya gotta ask, you won't understand the answer.

73

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 31 2007,04:24)]Quote[/b] (KB3NDN @ Aug. 31 2007,06:12)]what kind of dork wears dress clothes like that at his own station, this ad so SO fake. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Bob Hisamoto, KL7AM, did.
no attempt at making fun of anyone was intended - i was commenting on the fictional character in the ad.

its great how you even have to disclaimer your posts. everyone has to be PC.

doesnt this somehow seem to be related to the topic of this thread? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Aug. 31 2007,13:10)]Is that a bug she is working?
Yup sure is. I also notice she is wearing bright red nail polish. This strikes me as humorous for some reason.

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Aug. 30 2007,23:30)]If you wish to contact Doctor Haring, you have several options.

You may write her care of her publisher, the MIT press.

You may write her care of the Keith Haring Foundation, of which she is a director.

You may write her care of the The Bard Graduate Center, where she is visiting faculty.

I am now very much looking forward to reading my copy of the book, which I have ordered through Amazon this afternoon.
AE6IP, thanks. #I didn't find any contact information or even a name listing for her on the the Keith Haring Foundation web page. #I will have to look again. #I thought that was odd that she wouldn't be listed with the other researchers. #

I don't recall now if I looked at The Bard Graduate Center or had the same result as with the foundation. #Writing to MIT press is probably the answer. #Maybe I am mad enough now to do that. #

She seems to be getting more exposure with some speaking engagements so I might have better luck now than a few months back. #Looking forward to your take on the book.

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Aug. 31 2007,13:43)]Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Aug. 31 2007,13:10)]Is that a bug she is working?
Yup sure is. #I also notice she is wearing bright red nail polish. #This strikes me as humorous for some reason.
To match the color of the paddles on the bug!

{duck and run}

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Aug. 31 2007,11:38)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Aug. 31 2007,13:43)]Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Aug. 31 2007,13:10)]Is that a bug she is working?
Yup sure is. #I also notice she is wearing bright red nail polish. #This strikes me as humorous for some reason.
To match the color of the paddles on the bug!

{duck and run}
Actually, the red paddles came out well after WWII. The only plastic they had at the time was Bakelite.

eric

[ky5u]

Looks like a good review of this book in CQ Magazine.

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Aug. 31 2007,11:38)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Aug. 31 2007,13:43)]Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Aug. 31 2007,13:10)]Is that a bug she is working?
Yup sure is. #I also notice she is wearing bright red nail polish. #This strikes me as humorous for some reason.
To match the color of the paddles on the bug!

{duck and run}
WA3KYY, yes, one must have matching nail polish to go with the paddles on one's key.

The first key I purchased for myself was a MFJ-564 with pink, yes, pink plastic paddles. #I bought it for the paddles. #I hooked that up to my K2 and when it wasn't in use I placed it on the shelf over the rig...still connected. #One tragic day it slipped out of my hands as I moved it and crashed onto my desk, breaking the beloved pink plastic paddles and pretty much springing all the springs and gidgets off. #I sat there and cried. #My beautiful pink paddles were broken in multiple pieces.

Now that is not the time for a fellow, my OM of 30+ years, to offer to glue them back together for me. #He called to order new paddles from MFJ. #He also suggested that, as I enjoy wood working, I should make wooden paddles for it. #I cried some more. #

When the paddles arrived from MFJ they were for the wrong model and could not be attached. #I cried some more. #

After I finished that last cry, I went out to the barn and cut up some mesquite wood from the Wild Horse Desert to shape into a pair of paddles for my key. #I finished them with several coats of tung oil and reassembled my broken iambic. #Man, mesquite paddles are gobs better than pink plastic. #I mounted the MFJ-564 onto an oak base so it could sit safely on my desk instead of on the shelf.

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD #(not wearing nail polish any more)

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 31 2007,12:58)]Looks like a good review of this book in CQ Magazine.
AG4YO, Yes, and way to easy going, IMHO. #Even after I pointed out to the reviewer my complaints he does not agree with me or seem to think there is a problem in the way the men are always presented as social and domestic failures. #He also does not consider it a problem that the author did not use any living hams as resources for the study.

He does save himself in a couple places such as the last line of the second paragraph. Also at the end he recommends combining Dr. Haring's book with "Hello World" which someone else on the thread has suggested.

Were you going to present your philosophical theory for me or not?

73!! #Pat #KD5TDX

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (KB3NDN @ Aug. 31 2007,06:12)]what kind of dork wears dress clothes like that at his own station, this ad so SO fake. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Y'all are a real hoot. Yes, the ladies wore dresses and the men shirt and tie, suit jacket when going out or to work. My father was a roofer. He wore flannel shirts and coveralls to work. When he came home and cleaned up for dinner he wore the white shirt. When he took us out he always wore suit and tie. My mother did her housework in a dress, cooked meals in a dress, hung the wash in a dress, did her gardening in a dress.

Now stop a moment and think what these people would say if they looked at us now through the eyes of their time... "Look at all those bums. A bunch of hobos just fell off the train!! They should be ashamed of how they look!"

73!! Pat KD5TXD

[k4kyv]

I find it amusing that nearly all the depictions of hams operating their stations in old magazines, particularly before WW2, show them wearing a shirt and tie, even when building something or doing "dirty" activities like erecting antennas or working on their rigs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUE04hpwQ1Q


I didn't take time to read the entire initial post. Does the good Dr. say anything about ham radio being "faintly embarrassing"?

[KB3NDN]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 31 2007,07:32)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Aug. 31 2007,11:38)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ Aug. 31 2007,13:43)]Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Aug. 31 2007,13:10)]Is that a bug she is working?
Yup sure is. #I also notice she is wearing bright red nail polish. #This strikes me as humorous for some reason.
To match the color of the paddles on the bug!

{duck and run}
Actually, the red paddles came out well after WWII. #The only plastic they had at the time was Bakelite.

eric
didnt they make red bakelite? i was pretty sure they did...

[n2cfj]

Google bakelite jewelery. Some of the sites show pieces made in the 30's & 40's of red bakelite

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Aug. 31 2007,08:20)]This topic makes me long for days before I was even born.


Dale ab1ga eloquantly writes about an era that I consider the "Golden Age" of America. As with everything, an entire era can't be acuratley summed up with generalizations but it does open a window into the lives of people in the past.

I think we make some false assumptions today about women in those years. The assumption is that homemakers were prisoners, slaves, secretly and begrudgingly plotting their "liberation". I think it is also false to assume that all women of the time were forceably held back from participating in the world of technology at the suppressive hands of their male captors.

(snipped)

I believe divorce rates are at an all time high largely because somewhere along the way, women were told by feminists that the were being held back by men...they were convinced that if they didn't act like men, they'd be percieved as inferior to men. Funny...do you not see the irony in that? Women don't want to be seen as inferior, so to become equal they must act like men, live in the male world. That is illogical because it is as good as admitting that women are by nature inferior and that they must step outside some natural boundary in order to be equal! Hogwash!
KE5FRF, not sure what time period is covered by the “Golden Age” you are referring to. #It is really hard for people from one time period to fairly address people from the past. #Most of us, at least subconsciously, believe history begins at our own birth.

If life didn’t throw you any curve balls it was a happier age, the 50’s etc. #It is a lot more fun to grow up in a secure feeling world with a mom and dad in a neighborhood where the nuclear family is the standard. #There is a very interesting parallel between the 1950’s and the 1850’s. #Life is all find and good if you have the nuclear family to support you. #The 1950’s weren’t a good time for a woman to end up a widow with kids and no near by family. #Necessity put her into the work force and she had very little choice and most always low pay. #In the 1850’s women faced the same issue. #If they didn’t have the support of husband or father they had to make their way in the work force. #Their choices were generally factory work in the textile mills, seamstress, cleaning woman, or if educated work as a governess. #The pay was low. #The telegraph offered an additional, generally well paying, option. #The telegraph industry was quickly growing along side the railroads and there was a demand for telegraphers. #Women were allowed to enter that field. #They were well educated but still had to master the technology. #They were at a disadvantage when it came to business as shown in the errors made by the new women telegraphers, such as copying “feels” for FOB or “seed” for C.O.D. #They were unfamiliar with the business terms because they had no education in business. #They were sternly scolded and quickly mastered the vocabulary. # Women in the 1970’s were blessed with the option of entering the new computer industry where there was a strong demand for workers to learn the new art of computer programming and good pay.

My point regarding the book is that in the 1950’s through 1980’s, an age I lived through, Amateur Radio Operators were not all opposed to women entering the hobby. #Dr. Haring’s book paints Amateur Radio as being all unwelcoming and rejecting. # It wasn’t. #I was constantly invited to learn and enter the hobby from the mid 50’s well into my marriage. #I finally got my license in 2002. #Man, do I regret now not getting my ticket as a kid in the 50’s. #Dr. Haring 100% rejected what I experienced. #I fail to grasp why. #I can’t believe that my experiences are totally unique. #I have encountered parallels to my experiences among other women hams.

Also, many of the women who entered telegraphy in the 1800’s did so because of divorce. #We don’t know as much as we think we know about the Victorian age. #We are viewing it through modern eyes with limited resources to draw conclusions from. #Dr. Haring is doing to Amateur Radio what was done to the women of telegraphy in the 1800’s. #She is leaving out part of the group, the honorable family men who didn’t play around, didn’t reject women in their hobby, cared for their families, and passed their ham radio knowledge to their children. #The telegraph industry of the 1800’s did not consider women to be serious employees and destroyed much of their employment histories. #They nearly erased their existence by that simple housecleaning exercise. #The women of telegraphy survived in editorials and articles they wrote for telegraph and railroad publications of the age where they argued their right to a place in that profession. #If they had not been published it is possible they would have been totally lost in history.

Well, I am looking forward to the folks who are reading her book to see if they can understand what I have seen in the book. #

Thanks and 73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[K0RGR]

I don't recall my dad ever wearing a tie to dinner, but he did dress a great deal more formally at home than I do.

Dad would come home each evening punctually at 4:30, and sit down in the easy chair with his newspaper and his pipe. At exactly 5:00, Mom would have dinner on the table. When Dad was finished, he'd disappear into the radio room for the rest of the night. In later years, this routine changed to include a short nap before dinner and a long walk afterwards. We all took care not to disturb Dad too much, though we were always welcome to watch him operate on the air. He would usually have the receiver going on the desk, while he sat at the workbench building or fixing something.

That ad isn't too far from reality. Men of my age were born to be kings. Somehow, we dethroned ourselves.

[KE5FRF]

Pat,

# Certainly, I can agree with you and fully understand that if you didn't live in a time, it is hard to really understand it. a lot of my impression of the 50's comes from stories of relatives, popular culture, reading, etc. So of course, I can never have a full understanding of the era, only superficial. However, I am sort of a 50's buff...I've read a lot, listen to a lot of music, and do feel a connection to those years.

#Absolutely, as you say ANY era can be difficult depending on your circumstances. A pampered princess is going to have fonder memories of the 50's than an abandoned mother or a spinster or widow. A disabled African-American WWII vet is going to have a different view than a white college graduate. All we can do, when looking through the window of time, is make generalizations. And it is my viewpoint, however detatched from firsthand experience, that the 50's was the most prosperous and also the most secure era in American history. Secure in that our nation had an identity and a strong sense of family. Yes, people got divorces. People had unwanted pregnancies, all the same ills of today. But there was still a respect for the woman who took care of her family. There was less "keeping up with the Jones" mentallity where a household couldn't make it without two incomes. People made due with what they had. Women clipped coupons and mended clothes that were worn to save money...etc, etc.

I'm very sad that today a young woman graduating from college is often ridiculed by her peers if she says she wants to start a family and stay home with the children. I fully believe that women should have every opportunity to be career oriented, to particpate in industry, technology, science. I believe the opportunity should be there for every woman. But I also believe that women shouldn't be looked down upon if they decide to satisfy their natural instincts to be good mothers. In other words...the only one that should be satisfied by a woman's decisions is herself. There is nobody to please but oneself. Society shouldn't put pressures upon us to be something other than what we desire to be. I believe many women repress their desire to be good mothers in order to meet some superficial standard that society has put upon them. And hey, if a woman can manage to be both, juggle career and family, mo par to 'em! I just believe that if one has to be chosen over the other, and if children are involved, there should be no social stigma placed on a woman who chooses to "just be mom".

[KD5TXD]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Aug. 31 2007,14:51)]I'm very sad that today a young woman graduating from college is often ridiculed by her peers if she says she wants to start a family and stay home with the children. I fully believe that women should have every opportunity to be career oriented, to particpate in industry, technology, science. I believe the opportunity should be there for every woman. But I also believe that women shouldn't be looked down upon if they decide to satisfy their natural instincts to be good mothers. In other words...the only one that should be satisfied by a woman's decisions is herself. There is nobody to please but oneself. Society shouldn't put pressures upon us to be something other than what we desire to be. I believe many women repress their desire to be good mothers in order to meet some superficial standard that society has put upon them. And hey, if a woman can manage to be both, juggle career and family, mo par to 'em! I just believe that if one has to be chosen over the other, and if children are involved, there should be no social stigma placed on a woman who chooses to "just be mom".
KE5FRF, roger on that for sure. #Feminism short circuited liberation. #In the late 60's and early 70's it was group-think to the nth degree in my world. #If you weren't in lockstep there was something wrong with you. #How could you betray the sisterhood?

True liberation is to be what your heart tells you to be, mom or nuclear scientist, if that is where your hear is that is where you need to be. #

Feminism promised to honor motherhood and that was the first thing it betrayed.

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 31 2007,18:34)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Aug. 31 2007,14:51)]I'm very sad that today a young woman graduating from college is often ridiculed by her peers if she says she wants to start a family and stay home with the children. I fully believe that women should have every opportunity to be career oriented, to particpate in industry, technology, science. I believe the opportunity should be there for every woman. But I also believe that women shouldn't be looked down upon if they decide to satisfy their natural instincts to be good mothers. In other words...the only one that should be satisfied by a woman's decisions is herself. There is nobody to please but oneself. Society shouldn't put pressures upon us to be something other than what we desire to be. I believe many women repress their desire to be good mothers in order to meet some superficial standard that society has put upon them. And hey, if a woman can manage to be both, juggle career and family, mo par to 'em! I just believe that if one has to be chosen over the other, and if children are involved, there should be no social stigma placed on a woman who chooses to "just be mom".
KE5FRF, roger on that for sure. #Feminism short circuited liberation. #In the late 60's and early 70's it was group-think to the nth degree in my world. #If you weren't in lockstep there was something wrong with you. #How could you betray the sisterhood?

True liberation is to be what your heart tells you to be, mom or nuclear scientist, if that is where your hear is that is where you need to be. #

Feminism promised to honor motherhood and that was the first thing it betrayed.

73!! #Pat #KD5TXD
I agree with you there.

In addition, the "feminists" wanted jobs and promotions that they were not qualified for and had not earned. That really irritated me.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 31 2007,13:11)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 31 2007,12:58)]Looks like a good review of this book in CQ Magazine.
AG4YO, Yes, and way to easy going, IMHO. Even after I pointed out to the reviewer my complaints he does not agree with me or seem to think there is a problem in the way the men are always presented as social and domestic failures. He also does not consider it a problem that the author did not use any living hams as resources for the study.

He does save himself in a couple places such as the last line of the second paragraph. Also at the end he recommends combining Dr. Haring's book with "Hello World" which someone else on the thread has suggested.

Were you going to present your philosophical theory for me or not?

73!! Pat KD5TDX
I wanted to read the book before I commented. I promise to share with you after that.

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Aug. 31 2007,10:14)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Aug. 30 2007,23:30)]If you wish to contact Doctor Haring, you have several options.

You may write her care of her publisher, the MIT press.

You may write her care of the Keith Haring Foundation, of which she is a director.

You may write her care of the The Bard Graduate Center, where she is visiting faculty.

I am now very much looking forward to reading my copy of the book, which I have ordered through Amazon this afternoon.
AE6IP, thanks. I didn't find any contact information or even a name listing for her on the the Keith Haring Foundation web page. I will have to look again. I thought that was odd that she wouldn't be listed with the other researchers.

I don't recall now if I looked at The Bard Graduate Center or had the same result as with the foundation. Writing to MIT press is probably the answer. Maybe I am mad enough now to do that.

She seems to be getting more exposure with some speaking engagements so I might have better luck now than a few months back. Looking forward to your take on the book.

73!! Pat KD5TXD
There isn't any specific contact information for Doctor Haring on the Haring Foundation web site, but she is still a director. The best way to write to her about the book would be care of the MIT Press, which will forward the mail to her. Writing to her at the Haring Foundation's address will also get to her, but is more indirect and might well take longer.

[nq3x]

Well. What an interesting topic. I'm going to add my comments in "stream of consciousness" style, because I can't be troubled to organize my thoughts this early on a Saturday morning. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I'm not going to buy this book. In the first place, I really couldn't care much less about the subject matter. In the second, if it's as bad as the reviewer says, it'll just piss me off. Third, if it's as bad as the reviewer says, I'll be even more pissed off that the author got my money. Most non-fiction authors see checks as support for their work - "30,000 readers agree with me!" Horsepucky, but it happens.

My education was in the field of history. It is obvious from the reviewer's (granted, slanted) synopsis that the author either made no effort to contact living representatives of that time or did contact them and chose to discard that evidence.

My favorite area of historical study is the life of common people during the first half of the seventeenth century. I'd frankly do just about anything to have a first-person account that pertains to my area of interest! It appears the author of this book either chose not to pursue first-person accounts or discarded them when they failed to support her preconceptions. This violates one of the fundamental rules of historiography - to get as close to the source as is humanly possible. In other words, if there are still people toddling about who lived through the historical event you're studying, go to them. Only if they don't exist does the responsible historian seek other sources, like the written word or pictorial evidence. Eyewitness accounts trump all.

Should this book be as described - and I have no intention of implying that the reviewer has told untruths or half-truths; as I said, I haven't read the book myself - this is historiography so abysmal that the resultant book should be carefully preserved for collegiate historiography classes as a shining example of what not to do. I sincerely hope that it wasn't really a master's thesis or doctoral dissertation; if so, it makes a person with the future of the American secondary education system at heart despair.

[ab1ga]

Quote[/b] (nq3x @ Sep. 01 2007,07:54)]My education was in the field of history. #It is obvious from the reviewer's (granted, slanted) synopsis that the author either made no effort to contact living representatives of that time or did contact them and chose to discard that evidence. #
I'd guess that Dr. Haring chose to limit herself to artifact and exclude live interviews due to time and const constraints.

From the biographical notes I've seen, she was a visiting scholar, which implies a finite amount of time and a limited budget.

I didn't realize this until my wife (Ed. D.) told me that interviewees are considered human subjects of experiments, and that before interviews can be conducted the research methodology has to be reviewed and approved by the appropriate committee. If Dr. Haring's appointment was only for a year or possibly two, it may not have been feasible to get the approvals and perform the research in time. By limiting herself to artifactual evidence, Dr. Haring could begin work immediately.

Note that I do not necessarily believe that this is a good or even acceptable approach to doing research, but I am loath to condemn Dr. Haring for doing the best she could with limited resources. But those using this approach must concede that by leaving out some sources they risk missing important facts and concepts, and that any conclusions they reach are more likely to be erroneous or incomplete.

I haven't read Dr. Haring's book, so I cannot make any blanket comments about its completeness or accuracy. But her claims about exclusion based on sex just don't ring true with my own beliefs, the expressed beliefs and behavior of those around me, and the tenor of the material I've read in QST and elsewhere, so I'm inclined to believe that the depth of her research wasn't sufficient to paint an accurate picture of amateur radio, then or now. When the antenna goes up and the headphones go on, it doesn't matter whether you're wearing a shirt or a skirt, you're a ham like any other.













(Only if you're using CW, of course.) HAH! Gotcha!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD5TXD]

NQ3X and AB1GA, From “Ham Radio’s Technical Culture” by Dr. Haring, page xvi, “This is a text-based history. #I did not have access to old audio tapes of on-air conversations, though over the years I have spent many hours casually observing in a ham shack. #Given the huge number of longtime radio hobbyists, I contemplated conducting interviews as part of my research. #But the rich documents hams produced allowed me to avoid the challenges of oral history, such as selecting representative informants and interpreting their comments in light of the fact that decades had passed since the events described.”

I interpret this to mean that she took every word printed in the magazines, club news letters, manufacturer’s publications as pure truth with no allowance for the nuances of humor as related to the time period. #This automatically produces a very negative sexist interpretation which emphasizes male bad behavior and makes male good behavior invisible. #It, in my opinion is a flawed interpretation needing challenge. #Love the word “historiography”. #

Such approaches also lead to the conclusion that Amateur Radio Operators were fearful of the arrival of transistors based on CARTOON CHARACTERS in manufacturer advertisements. #I don’t remember a word said about Amateurs who were trilled at the new technology and couldn’t wait to get their hands on it. #Perhaps I am in error? #

Look at the folks and topics on this board. #You have folks like me who refuse to allow an evil computer to touch the rig and consider any internet access to radio to be a sin. #You have the folks who have leaped forward to embrace the computer/internet and its benefits to communications. #If you look only at me you are seeing Luddites. #If you look only at the computer lovers you see striving for technology advances. #You can’t accurately praise either approach as being a “valentine” or some great look at the hobby that is better than any of the other “bits and pieces” looks previously written. #That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

73!!! #Pat #KD5TXD

[N8UZE]

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Sep. 01 2007,10:37)]Quote[/b] (nq3x @ Sep. 01 2007,07:54)]My education was in the field of history. #It is obvious from the reviewer's (granted, slanted) synopsis that the author either made no effort to contact living representatives of that time or did contact them and chose to discard that evidence. #
I'd guess that Dr. Haring chose to limit herself to artifact and exclude live interviews due to time and const constraints.

#From the biographical notes I've seen, she was a visiting scholar, which implies a finite amount of time and a limited budget.

#I didn't realize this until my wife (Ed. D.) told me that interviewees are considered human subjects of experiments, and that before interviews can be conducted the research methodology has to be reviewed and approved by the appropriate committee. If Dr. Haring's appointment was only for a year or possibly two, it may not have been feasible to get the approvals and perform the research in time. By limiting herself to artifactual evidence, Dr. Haring could begin work immediately.
However, a responsible scholar would then not proceed with this study as it would be impossible to arrive at conclusions that represented reality. You shouldn't do a "half-baked" study. Instead you select a study that you can do with the time and resources available.

In cases where scholars are researching the past and no one is left from that time, they don't just depend on magazines and newspapers of the time. They use items like personal diaries to try to get a handle on how the people and participants viewed the world around them. While not as good as interviewing, it is the "next best" thing.

[ky5u]

Well Pat as I said I have not read the book yet. But if I were to write one, it would have to discuss the self centered nature of people today and how it relates to a shared service. The easiest manifestation of that to see is that you can't get amateurs to agree on almost anything.

[AE6IP]

Well, Amazon has shipped my copy, but, alas, it is due to arrive when I am in London, so I won't be seeing it for nearly a month.

I'll try to remember to report my impressions in this thread, stale as it will be at that time, once I've read it.

[kc9kow]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ Aug. 29 2007,11:58)]I think said biased author would be more inclined to listen to you than to any of us of the brutish male persuasion. #I think you could give her a most eloquent tongue-lashing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

eric
Tongue lashing sounds pornographic to me http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
However, if the author is cute enough and not an OF, i'd be happy to do it myself!

[G0GQK]

I have always believed after walking round and visiting bookshops in the worlds largest book centre at Hay on Wye that half of the books produced in a year should never have been printed. Sounds like this one falls into that category.

G0GQK

[G8ADD]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ Sep. 02 2007,14:48)]I have always believed after walking round and visiting bookshops in the worlds largest book centre at Hay on Wye that half of the books produced in a year should never have been printed. Sounds like this one falls into that category.

G0GQK
Only half? Man, you're far too tolerant!

73

Brian G8ADD

[VK2AKG]

Quote[/b] (KD5TXD @ Sep. 01 2007,21:18)]NQ3X and AB1GA, From “Ham Radio’s Technical Culture” by Dr. Haring, page xvi, “This is a text-based history. I did not have access to old audio tapes of on-air conversations, ..."
wonder what she would have made of these tapes from the 1970s?

VK3AML et al - crossband capers (http://bluehaze.com.au/mmedia/missions/branch_replays.html)