Six Flags not Ham Friendly

[K2ID]

A few days ago my wife and I decided to visit the Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in NJ. As usual, I took along a small HT to keep in touch with friends. To my surpirse I was told that I could not bring it into the park, even after showing the security guards that it could not transmit on their frequencies and that their frequencies were not programmed into memory. I told them that I was a licensed amateur operator and offered to show them my license but they were not interested. I was told that "kids" bring in altered radios and mess with their frequencies. I told them as a licensed amateur that would not only cost me my license but result in a large fine. They said that they could not make any exceptions and that they even take radios away from off duty police. I could not understand their logic as I told them that anyone can simply step off of their property and jam their frequencies. They could not understand that interferring with their radios was not an activity that needed to be done on premises and in fact, was best done at a distance to avoid detection. Of course, no one there had a clue of what an amateur radio operator was and after being subject to further searches of my bag I was told to turn over my radio. Since there were now about 3 guards around me and I was being looked at as if I was a criminal by the people in the area plus my wife was getting scared, I relented and handed over my radio. All was done very politely. I was not mistreated nor did I get beligerant. It was just that I realized that logic had no affect. #Well my wife was upset. We did not go on any rides. We ate a light meal, walked around and then got the heck out of there and will never return.

I do not recall anything about prohibiting radios on their tickets or web site. If it were there it must be buried in the fine print. Every logical argument I used was met with something about it being private property so they could do as they want. I guess following their logic I can prevent anyone entering my property from listening to the free airwaves. What is strange is that I saw a few families with family radios. I guess if you are unlicensed you can have a radio but licensed hams are untrustworthy.

Anyway, I will not go there again and urge all hams to avoid Six Flaggs properties. If just a few hundred of us boycott them it will cost them some money. I will not patronize anyplace that is ham unfriendly and I hope that you feel the same way.

[VO1GXG]

I would call there head office and tell them, maybe you can get the buggers fired or a free pass . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif i had the same problem at one of the grocery stores. they said i could not go in there with the radio . I told em to ***** off and i walk in anyways.

[AB6ND]

No doubt the security people have excellent reasons for the rules.
Millions of people have no idea about Amateur Radio, are not impressed by a license, and are not in the least bit interested in frequencies you have in your equipment.
It would be a good idea if you could try and understand and see the logic for the rules.
73
AB6ND

[WD8OQX]

FRS? they were breaking there own rules by allowing that, weren't they. That is enough for a "B****" in my book. - as for handing over the HT, (or a search) NO WAY - one option would have been to "about face" & leave but what about the tickets if already purchased. Another would be to lock your stuff securely in the vehicle (trunk if car). If the tickets weren't purchased yet I'd told them to stick it & left!

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.

[KA7RRA]

Might also have to do with drugs and gangs the one in California is gang loaded from my understanding of it they dont allow you to ware certain colors

[ka5piu]

Hello.

This is the first I have heard of this, and I bounce around six flags theme parks all the time.
As far as license goes, have at it.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp....0074069 (http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/results.jsp;JSESSIONID_ULSSEARCH=RZ0jGWBNnvkqvSrWS 9R3HCQKbtvl6P3nHtdXrFly2JS3gJNWYfr3!-1109667147!-1310074069)
I am in shock to find that they have a policy on off duty police officers.
In San Antonio, a theme park said no to off duty police officers and firearms, that policy was changed.
Now, a state law says that police officers who have a legal right to be there can carry a firearm, this is not at the discretion of the propery owner.
It is not legal to ask an officer if he is off duty, so that fixed that issue.
This does in no way apply to a CCW permit nor an out of state police officer.
But, again, I find the whole thing odd, what are the rules, and, the security ask you what type of radio it is?
There are places that ban "Ham Radios", including a lot of refineries.
This is mostly in big trucks but the ban is across the board, even talkies are banned, and there is nothing to be done about it, it is private property.
So, what I would like to know is, exactly, what did you call the radio?
I have carried things like the TH-F6a into places, tuned to a GMRS freq and an FM BC freq, and say nothing.
No one has ever batted an eye.
But, again, I say nothing, just answer the questions.
No talk about a license, no 'I am a ham', nothing.

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Aug. 29 2007,20:20)]What is strange is that I saw a few families with family radios.
As a security officer I understand the need to uphold the rules of the client. If there is a policy against bringing radios into the park and if it's enforced fairly to the point of even barring off duty police from entering with radios then there shouldn't be a problem. Yet, if after being told you could not enter with your radios and then witnessing others using radios a complaint to management is appropriate.
As far the interferiance problem, I'm curious what radios and frequencies the staff were using and if they are properly licensed and maintained.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Aug. 29 2007,20:56)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.
I doubt 6 Flags or any amusement park is that dumb. All they really need is one business band license that will cover all employees and the park itself, so it's hardly a big deal.

As far as allowing ANY radio, since it is private property, they are allowed to set the security protocol as they see fit, and that may even be different in different areas of the country; what is allowed or legal in one statemay not, and probably does not, apply to other jurisdictions. Here in California, (unless things have changed recently) off-duty law enforcement personnel are NOT allowed to carry weapons in amusement parks; the reasoning being that there are enough on-duty personnel to provide proper order, and an unidentified off-duty LEO could easily be mistaken for a perpetrator should a confrontation or situation occur; such a scenario could/would endanger both the on-duty personnel as well as the off-duty persons.
But the laws in other states can, and probably do, differ.

If the security personnel at an amusement park or any public venue feel your radio can be a source of confusion or a security risk, they have every right to ask (actually, demand) you to refrain from bringing it onto the premises. Whether they allow other items, such as FRS radios, is really immaterial. It IS their property, and they can make any rules or decisions they deem prudent to ensure peace.

[KL7FZ]

Six Flags in NJ shows 9 FCC business licenses.And the contact info concerning them.

Six Flags (http://dettifoss.fcc.gov/acweb/viewer/viewframeset.jsp?__executableid=240&id=419498&connectionhandle=q7whmBpUho%2btg5MUYUgZxq1%2brbtKH LkAq7RmnwSbegyRYEMWxKR8m0pEgUAaXCZHB8MSDImIexxWt7f oY7wBuIMEv18lQxjMCQCTjGYfVbM%3d&closex=false&outputname=%2fgenmen%5fa%2fdb%5f19%2fs%5flicn%5fst %5fsv.roi&saveoutput=false&outputType=ROI&serverurl=http%3a%2f%2fdettifoss%3a8088&volume=dettifoss8)

KL7FZ

[ko0m]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Aug. 29 2007,23:20)]A few days ago my wife and I decided to visit the Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in NJ. As usual, I took along a small HT to keep in touch with friends. To my surpirse I was told that I could not bring it into the park, even after showing the security guards that it could not transmit on their frequencies and that their frequencies were not programmed into memory. I told them that I was a licensed amateur operator and offered to show them my license but they were not interested. I was told that "kids" bring in altered radios and mess with their frequencies. I told them as a licensed amateur that would not only cost me my license but result in a large fine. They said that they could not make any exceptions and that they even take radios away from off duty police. I could not understand their logic as I told them that anyone can simply step off of their property and jam their frequencies. They could not understand that interferring with their radios was not an activity that needed to be done on premises and in fact, was best done at a distance to avoid detection. Of course, no one there had a clue of what an amateur radio operator was and after being subject to further searches of my bag I was told to turn over my radio. Since there were now about 3 guards around me and I was being looked at as if I was a criminal by the people in the area plus my wife was getting scared, I relented and handed over my radio. All was done very politely. I was not mistreated nor did I get beligerant. It was just that I realized that logic had no affect. #Well my wife was upset. We did not go on any rides. We ate a light meal, walked around and then got the heck out of there and will never return.

I do not recall anything about prohibiting radios on their tickets or web site. If it were there it must be buried in the fine print. Every logical argument I used was met with something about it being private property so they could do as they want. I guess following their logic I can prevent anyone entering my property from listening to the free airwaves. What is strange is that I saw a few families with family radios. I guess if you are unlicensed you can have a radio but licensed hams are untrustworthy.

Anyway, I will not go there again and urge all hams to avoid Six Flaggs properties. If just a few hundred of us boycott them it will cost them some money. I will not patronize anyplace that is ham unfriendly and I hope that you feel the same way.
Maybe you should look at it as a reality check, there has to be boundries established somewhere; If you were a brain surgeon, would you take your HT into the operating room with you or to your religious services on the Sabbath? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

You go to an "Amusement" Park to be amused, you immerse yourself in the experience and ride the rides (which you cannot do holding a HT, it becomes a bomb when you lose grip); there is no place for Ham Radio, your attention belongs totally to the "Amusement" Park.

After all the hub-bub was over, I bet the XYL was secretly saying to herself, "Good, now maybe you will leave that thing alone and pay some attention to me".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k4kyv]

Or else, unless there is a specific warning that radios are not allowed, simply turn it off and conceal it in an inconspicuous place like an inside jacket pocket.

If I went to an amusement park or other public place not directly connected with ham radio, to be seen walking around with a HT (or several HT's) on my belt is about the last thing I would want.

At one time I would have felt downright silly yacking on an HT in a place like that, but nowadays most observers would undoubtedly think it was a cell phone and not give it a second thought. I would probably leave my cell phone in the car, too.

[k5okc]

Enjoy time with your family. Leave the radio and cell phone in your car.

[KB9VXK]

why don't you tell the rest of the story when you got back to the car your wife said i told you to leave the d_m radio home you don't need a radio you got me .

[KE5FRF]

I have to say OM that you really have nothing to complain about.

Businesses are private enterprises and they have rules. While you are visiting their property you have to abide by and respect those rules. Our amateur license, as significant to US as it is, does not make you some sort of "official" and doesn't give you carte blanche to go anywhere with your radios. If you were visiting the Pentagon and they said "No radios", you'd certainly abide by that rule if you wanted in for the tour. All our license represents is permission to participate in a hobby for which the government is obligated to regulate...Similar to a pilots license. If you were a pilot, you wouldn't expect Six Flags to let you fly your plane onto the property now would you? Same concept. They have rules, live with them. And as others said, this isn't the end of the world. Just have fun and ride the rides and enjoy the time with the family.

[kc7mrq]

My luck, I would sneak a ht into the park thinking I'm so cool, but end up killing a bystander when my radio come unhooked from my belt while doing one of those loopy rides.

It's just not worth the possibility of injuring someone to take a ht on those rides.


Corey

[ai3v]

So they treated you like dirt, And you spent money there anyway? HAHAHA

P.T.Barnum was right.

Rege

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I would bet that if you went back there today, that there would be different security guards there who would just wave you through and nothing would be said.

ego trip and you were a victim ?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WS2L]

I have gone to Great Adventure in NJ at least 100 times over the years. To be honest with the kinds of rides I go on I wouldn't want to be carrying any kind of radio. Everyone is different but speaking for myself I was always more interested in having fun there and have always left the ham equipment at home or in the truck. There are no repeaters in that area that hold any interest to me anyway.

[N2RJ]

With all of the crap happening at Six Flags lately, they are only protecting themselves from lawsuits.

Leave the radios at home.

[ky5u]

Focus your outrage on the subject of WHY nobody knows what Amateur Radio is or often thinks it is the same as CB Radio rather than the results of that fact as experienced by you and others. Focus your disdain on the image of AR to many of whackerism.

AR is a hobby. It is fun, it provides help to people at times, and it provides a baseline to the probable failure of digitally (IP network) based systems. An ad once a quarter in the Wall Street Journal or USA Today about what AR accomplished for the quarter and distancing itself from CB would be a noble goal for the ARRL and one I WOULD contribute to.

[AG3Y]

There ARE other things in life, besides Ham Radio ! ! ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[W5HTW]

Want to keep in touch with friends while you are in the park? Take the FRIENDS with you, not the radio.

Ed

[K0HWY]

Rules are rules. If you don't like them, a)leave your radio at home, b)lock it in your vehicle or c) boycott the park. They have established a legitimate rule to prevent a potentially serious compromise with their security infrastructure. And, legitimate or not, they are in control; not you. They make the rules, you follow.

And can you really blame them for being unimpressed with an amateur radio license today? There's an ever decreasing thin line that separates amateur radio and its associated operators from CB and FRS.

And last but not least, it's a family fun park. Does a rule making it impossible to bring a radio inside the gate spoil the park? If so, you're probably going to the wrong place for fun in the first place. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n4bfd]

It kind of blows that they would not let you bring the rig in, but it is private property. You can't expect every person on the planet to know about any given hobby and the technical aspects behind it just because you have a high interest in it.

Now I hate to bring this up... but why bring a ham radio to a amusement park with the family? I can see taking a rig on vacation and using it on down times... but sometimes there is a limit. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif However, I guess if the wife/and or kids are taking rides that you don't care for it would give you something to do while standing about alone.

I am taking a rig to Russia in a few months if I can get permission to operate. However, I'll be using it at night or early in the mornings during the usual insomniac times I experience when traveling to Europe. Don't expect me to be walking about Red Square or around the Kremlin with a HT or Softrock rxtx and a laptop. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2RJ]

Remember that they have a lot of equipment in there, I believe some that control the rides and monitor safety and security.

The last thing they need is some hammie going in there and messing up their systems.

Six flags has had a couple of recent incidents where their rides have killed or injured people. I don't think they want to take any more risk than they are taking already.

[wa9cwx]

I tend to suspect you may have been looking for a bit of a confrontation.

That may not be the case, but after the begining encounter, you would have a pretty good idea where it was all headed.

Yet you persisted in trying to use your version of logic, which was clearly susperscede by THEIR logic.
It is private property.
Period.

Urging other hams to boycot Six Flags sounds equally futile.

Perhapse a well thought out letter, maybe from the ARRL legal dept., supported with backup info as needed, to the corporate headquartrs of Six Flags MAY get a policy change. At least it might have a chance of doing SOMETHING.

But a bunch of self-righteous walkie talkie carrying overweight nerds not showing up at the gates, might be a reason to celelbrate, not start worrying about their profits.

I think I would have let the issue go after a few minutes, I too would have tried a BRIEF explanation, and I too carry my license with me.
But it certainly would not have kept me from what I wanted to do, it would not keep me from returning, and #I sure wouldn't ask other hams to boycot based on something so unrelated to actual Ham Radio operations.

Their concern was safety, in VARIOUS forms, and they have to deal with HOARDS of people, be thankfull they are there doing a thankless job for $10.00 an hour, that FEW of us would care to do.

You sound like you have a very nice wife, take her out, enjoy an amusement park, leave the HT, guns, piano wire, timers, box cutters, blasting caps, whatever, in the car.

That stuff probably has thousands of legit uses, but to a security guard, making quick black and white decisions, based on safety for the masses, it is just likely to cause trouble.

Like I said, I too would have likely tried 'radio logic' briefly, but never extended it, it just won't go anywhwere in that situation.

Frank

[WB2WIK]

I've brought my HT into Six Flags Magic Mountain in L.A. many times. However, I must admit I didn't show it (it was clipped to my belt under my shirt), so probably they didn't notice.

Since anything like that (even a cell phone) can become a missile on the high speed rides I'd never wear or carry it onto any of the rides. They do have lockers at numerous locations throughout the park (pretty much near the entrance for every ride) exactly for that purpose: To stow your stuff. It's also a good place to stow some dry clothes because some of the rides can get you pretty wet!

I've used the HT to keep in touch with other hams I know who are also at the park the same day; makes it easy to meet up without resorting to cell phones. And they absolutely *do* allow cell phones!

WB2WIK/6

[kj3n]

Translation of original post:

"They did not respect my Ham Radio Authori-tah! Now I'm going to throw an internet tantrum like a 4-year-old!"

Get a life...... better yet, get some therapy.

No wonder the rest of the planet looks at us like the bunch of radio freaks we are....

[ko0m]

Our local Thrill-Park, Paramounts Kings Island doesn't even allow you to bring Pic-nic baskets or bottled water, you have to buy food and drink inside the venue however, you can go back to your car and eat there and re-enter later.

During my best/worst days in CB Radio I would have never considered carrying a portable into any venue or event. I do not own a HT and, from what I hear on my fixed 2 meter station, there is nothing that I want to communicate about from PKI to the amateur community.

[KD6NIG]

Its pretty easy. Its private property and they have the right to set the rules on said property.

If you came on my property with an HT and I chose to tell you to leave, you'd have to leave, or I could call the cops and tell them I'd like you to leave, I suppose.

There are bigger issues than this. If you need your HT that bad, then you should have just left. I'm sure if you took it and locked it up, you didn't miss it much.

I've heard of addiction, but HT addiction isn't a good thing. Seek help http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kl7aj]

There's a sign in a diner in Southeast Alaska.

"We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone."

They actually have very good food. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K9STH]

Back when SAROC (in Las Vegas) was the second largest "hamfest" in the country (only Dayton was larger) all of the casino operations had very strict rules against carrying radios in the gambling areas. The casino security officers "said" that this was a state law but no one ever confirmed this.

In reality, if you just kept your portable on your belt or in your coat pocket security did not "hastle" you in any way. If someone pulled out his/her portable and started talking then a security officer would usually ask you to stop. Only if you put up a real "fuss" would they escort you from the gambling area.

Now SAROC was in the days before the Japanese portables were readily available and the vast majority of amateur radio operators were using primarily Motorola or General Electric portable equipment. The "head honcho" of SAROC was the ARRL SCM for Nevada and his "regular" job was as the public relations manager at the old Flamingo Hotel. I met him when I was the FM Editor of CQ Magazine and was one of the "featured" speakers at SAROC that year. He told me that the "real" problem with the radios in the gambling area was not the possibility of a person "scamming" the casino by communicating with someone on the "outside" but was due to the fact that the equipment used by most amateur radio operators was generally better than what the casino had supplied to their security officers. It was more jealousy on the part of the officers than anything else.

Since SAROC was held in January of each year most customers in the casino were wearing some sort of jacket. Myself, I generally was wearing a "sports jacket" and I kept my new Motorola HT-220 in the inside pocket of the coat. Even though one could "detect" that there was "something" in my coat I was never even asked by a security officer as to what was in there. Today I probably would be thrown to the ground, placed in handcuffs, and my radio confiscated. Back then it was not unusual for someone to even be carrying a handgun in a shoulder holster while in a casino. Therefore, having a "bulge" under one's coat was not something requiring attention of security.

As for having a portable radio inside an amusement park such is generally not acceptable. Now if the park was participating in some amateur radio convention then having a lot of radios would be more appropriate. But, for "everyday" operations I agree that it is best not to even think of carrying a portable radio within the amusement area. Not only is there the possibility of injuring someone if the unit was dropped there are usually a "few" pickpockets and other "unsavory" individuals hanging around the large amusement parks that would be very happy relieving you of your portable radio.

Glen, K9STH

[W7WV]

Just my opinion, but I would not not to listen to the chatter of either your radio or cell phone while I am attending such a place.
Not the place for it.
Here in AZ we are open carry for handguns and I carry, but they do have a right to ask me to leave or put it in my car. Just a note, I have never been asked to leave a store, bank or other establishment.
Sound like nothing to worry about to me anyway.

[wa9cwx]

Ok, This issue has been dealt with, and QRZd hams are KNOWN for never beating an issue to death.

NOW on to a much more serious question.

Although we CAN carry handguns with special permits, I usually leave mine at home.

However, I often carry my Vibroplex single lever paddles, back strapped to my Vibroplex Delux bug, and my old W9TO keyer, wherever I go.

Obviously at formal functions, I leave it at the front reception area, but in restaurants, theaters, and concerts, I usually place it either on my lap, or if available, on a seat next to me.

Does anyone think Six Flags would object to THIS?

I can't imagine.....
Frank

[w7lpn]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Aug. 29 2007,20:56)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.
They are probably illegaly using FRS/GMRS radios, and were afraid you'd figure it out.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ Aug. 30 2007,14:47)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Aug. 29 2007,20:56)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.
They are probably illegaly using FRS/GMRS radios, and were afraid you'd figure it out.
They actually have licensed radios, as KL7FZ stated earlier.

[wu3u]

This thread demonstrates how anal American society has become...guy has an HT and its a big friggin deal.

Honest to God, everything is a federal case these days....

Such crap.

Tim
WU3U

[K4GUN]

Who cares why he wanted to bring an HT into the park? Why do some people here act so superior because they wouldn't do that? There are plenty of reasons a person might want to bring an HT into the park. "Because I felt like it" is even a good reason. Its his business and his decision. Even if that is not the same decision I would make, it doesn't mean he's paranoid, egotistical, self-important, nerdy, strange or careless. It just means he made a different decision.

Now, as to posting about it here, why not? Yes, they are a private business and have the right to tell us "no". We also have the right to tell others about that so they can make their own decisions about where to spend entertainment dollars.

Yeesh... some people are just grouchy.

[K0RGR]

It's always distressing when someone tells you that you can't do something that you consider to be a normal, legal, and proper thing.

It becomes even more distressing when they hit you with the old 'private proppity' argument - it's like your mother saying "you do it because I told you so".

But sadly, that's life. If you want to do something on their private proppity, you must bend over and gently kiss the ring they got when they became a big property owner. You would expect nothing less if you were in their place. Humans are, indeed, related to apes. And like apes, they have a pecking order. The ape that controls a particular area is much higher on the pecking order than the other apes. If the head ape says no radios, then it's no radios.

It's unfortunate that you were open about bringing in the radio, and paid the penalty. I avoid tourist traps like that whenever I can.

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

I wonder if the policy originated when there was one and only one, Six Flags Over Georgia in Atlanta. In any case what can you expect from seasonal employees hired at federal minimum wage? This is not conjecture, I've seen all the job listings in the computer at the state Employment Service.

"If just a few hundred of us boycott them it will cost them some money. I will not patronize anyplace that is ham unfriendly and I hope that you feel the same way."

They'll never miss you nor the few hundred with thousands coming through the gates every day. What boycott of anything EVER had any effect?

For what it's worth there was a thread about this at Cape Canaveral a few years back. A little discussion with the higher-ups got the ban lifted, maybe pointing out they have a ham station had some impact. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K4GUN]

Who said anything about a boycott? I know my dollars don't make a difference to a large company, but I will make decisions about where to spend my money based on corporate policies. I don't buy CITGO gas because of Hugo Chavez. I don't partonize Wachovia Bank because of their anti-gun policy. They don't know this and if they did, they would not care.

Personally, the anti-ham policy doesn't really concern me, but I can appreciate the attitude.

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Aug. 30 2007,16:26)]Who said anything about a boycott?
The original whiney poster. Go back and read it. It's in the last paragraph.

[wa6itf]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Aug. 30 2007,09:34)]Back when SAROC (in Las Vegas) was the second largest "hamfest" in the country (only Dayton was larger) all of the casino operations had very strict rules against carrying radios in the gambling areas. The casino security officers "said" that this was a state law but no one ever confirmed this.


---snip --
Now I know where I first met you Glen. I was the FM column writer for Wayne Green / 73 in that same time frame.

SAROC -- Leonard Norman's show. What a great event for those of us out here on "da left coast" where we had little else.

Yes, Leonard knew how to put on a ham radio show that made folks happy. He used Las Vegas as an "attraction" and mixed in enough ham radio to make folks with radios come back year, after year after year.

B-T-W: There were hams with import HT's there the last few years. You might recall that the late Fred Deeg, N6FD (then K6AEH) was the rep for Standard and introduced their first 10 channel HT at Daroc '73. The previous model was twice the size and only 4 channel.

Then there was the 5 channel, 3 watt Ken Products 2 meter - 2 channel HT -- powered by 12 AA batteries. That had to be longest -- in physical jength -- 2 meter HT ever built! Cant recall who was the rep for that one. It might have been Art householder / Spectronics from Chicago. It was later sold as a 6 channel version by Wilson.

Also in 1973 the first short llived Icom 2 meter crystal controlled HT's were shown -- tho they were still called Inoue Communications and then best known for their IC-2F 6 channel mobile that when tied to a Varitronics amp gave onre a 50 watt out 6 channel radio for only about $700 -- plus cables and connectors.

But my favorite HT at SAROC was the one that was carred by "Squeak" -- the famed HT-100 "Drinkie - Talkie." Just unscrew the "rubber duckie" and pour yourself a drink. Replace the anytenna and go back on the air. What a radio! (The secret -- the radio used an HT-100 board and battery leaving lots of room for the balloon that house refreshments.)

I really miss SAROC. We had lots of fun there. And for the FM crowd - it was paradise!

de
WA6ITF

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (wa6itf @ Aug. 30 2007,14:12)]I really miss SAROC. #We had lots of fun there. #And for the FM crowd - it was paradise!
Remember the early "FM BASH!"es at Dayton?

Did that tradition actually start with SAROC in Vegas?

Haven't been to a Dayton FM BASH in many years...but they were fun.

WB2WIK/6

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Aug. 30 2007,13:07)]Who cares why he wanted to bring an HT into the park? Why do some people here act so superior because they wouldn't do that? There are plenty of reasons a person might want to bring an HT into the park. "Because I felt like it" is even a good reason. Its his business and his decision. Even if that is not the same decision I would make, it doesn't mean he's paranoid, egotistical, self-important, nerdy, strange or careless. It just means he made a different decision.

Now, as to posting about it here, why not? Yes, they are a private business and have the right to tell us "no". We also have the right to tell others about that so they can make their own decisions about where to spend entertainment dollars.

Yeesh... some people are just grouchy.
By the same token, however, since an amusement is on private property, the personnel can say "you can't bring that radio into the park" for any reason whatsoever, even if that reason is merely "because we say so."
TOUCHE, perhaps, but it IS their property, it is private property, and they are permitted to make ANY rules (within Fedrral guidelines) they wish, as long as they are applied equally. (That's another issue.)

It's difficult to imagine HOW carrying an Amateur Radio H-T can be SO important as to rule over a person's life and take such priority over a person's activities.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Aug. 30 2007,16:16)]Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Aug. 30 2007,13:07)]Who cares why he wanted to bring an HT into the park? #Why do some people here act so superior because they wouldn't do that? #There are plenty of reasons a person might want to bring an HT into the park. #"Because I felt like it" is even a good reason. #Its his business and his decision. #Even if that is not the same decision I would make, it doesn't mean he's paranoid, egotistical, self-important, nerdy, strange or careless. #It just means he made a different decision.

Now, as to posting about it here, why not? #Yes, they are a private business and have the right to tell us "no". #We also have the right to tell others about that so they can make their own decisions about where to spend entertainment dollars. #

Yeesh... some people are just grouchy.
By the same token, however, since an amusement is on private property, the personnel can say "you can't bring that radio into the park" for any reason whatsoever, even if that reason is merely "because we say so."
# #TOUCHE, #perhaps, but it IS their property, it is private property, and they are permitted to make ANY rules (within Fedrral guidelines) they wish, as long as they are applied equally. #(That's another issue.)

#It's difficult to imagine HOW carrying an Amateur Radio H-T can be SO important as to rule over a person's life and take such priority over a person's activities.
I agree that a property owner can do what he wants. I said as much in a previous post. There's absolutely nothing wrong however, with pointing out a dumb policy that affects ham operators on a ham web site.

[N0KLT]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Aug. 30 2007,14:26)]Who said anything about a boycott? I know my dollars don't make a difference to a large company, but I will make decisions about where to spend my money based on corporate policies. I don't buy CITGO gas because of Hugo Chavez. I don't partonize Wachovia Bank because of their anti-gun policy. They don't know this and if they did, they would not care.

Personally, the anti-ham policy doesn't really concern me, but I can appreciate the attitude.
I understand and agree with your comments. I have not stepped foot inside a BaskinRobbins 31 Flavors ice cream place for a good many years because of their turning my wife and son away and refusing to let them use the private restroom. They did not have a public restroom and my son was just being potty trained and had just told my wife he had to go. She asked the girl behind the counter and was told there was no way she and my son could use the private restroom, after asking to talk to the manager, she was informed it was not their policy, etc etc etc. When my wife told me about it, I went up there since it was fairly close to our house and spoke to the manager and she got really snippy about the whole thing citing company policy blah blah. I informed her that it was not my policy to spend money with companies that had an attitude like B/R had. I realize my 'boycott' of them has not hurt them overall, but at least I know I have not supported a company whose policies I disagree with. There are just too many other places around to do business with.

[k9cn]

Well, first of all, as a dedicated libertarian, I firmly believe a man has the right to do what he will with his property and business, and if he says that he will only do business with red-haired left-handers having one blue eye and one green, well that's his right. (Yes, I'm aware of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but still think it's unconstitutional, the Supreme Court be damned.)

The real problem is the foolish sheep among us who put up with such nonsense and are so eager to hand over their cash that they will put up with any indignity, no matter how intrusive or degrading, to do so. #

Six Flags has the absolute right to tell you to keep your radio out. You have far greater power by telling them you don't need to spend your money there. #After all, separating people from their money is their sole reason for existence, and without customers they die.

I'm amazed at the number of people who take movies, professional sports, Disneyland and the like seriously. #Why people let themselves be searched before being given the "privilege" of dropping a hundred bucks at the ballpark is beyond me.

The key to your freedom is in your hands. It only takes the courage to use it.

[W6GQ]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Aug. 29 2007,20:20)]A few days ago my wife and I decided to visit the Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in NJ. As usual, I took along a small HT to keep in touch with friends. To my surpirse I was told that I could not bring it into the park, even after showing the security guards that it could not transmit on their frequencies and that their frequencies were not programmed into memory. I told them that I was a licensed amateur operator and offered to show them my license but they were not interested. I was told that "kids" bring in altered radios and mess with their frequencies. I told them as a licensed amateur that would not only cost me my license but result in a large fine. They said that they could not make any exceptions and that they even take radios away from off duty police. I could not understand their logic as I told them that anyone can simply step off of their property and jam their frequencies. They could not understand that interferring with their radios was not an activity that needed to be done on premises and in fact, was best done at a distance to avoid detection. Of course, no one there had a clue of what an amateur radio operator was and after being subject to further searches of my bag I was told to turn over my radio. Since there were now about 3 guards around me and I was being looked at as if I was a criminal by the people in the area plus my wife was getting scared, I relented and handed over my radio. All was done very politely. I was not mistreated nor did I get beligerant. It was just that I realized that logic had no affect. #Well my wife was upset. We did not go on any rides. We ate a light meal, walked around and then got the heck out of there and will never return.

I do not recall anything about prohibiting radios on their tickets or web site. If it were there it must be buried in the fine print. Every logical argument I used was met with something about it being private property so they could do as they want. I guess following their logic I can prevent anyone entering my property from listening to the free airwaves. What is strange is that I saw a few families with family radios. I guess if you are unlicensed you can have a radio but licensed hams are untrustworthy.

Anyway, I will not go there again and urge all hams to avoid Six Flaggs properties. If just a few hundred of us boycott them it will cost them some money. I will not patronize anyplace that is ham unfriendly and I hope that you feel the same way.
you are not special because you are an amateur radio operator, get over it.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7130/crybabyyg9.gif

[W6GQ]

Quote[/b] (N0KLT @ Aug. 30 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Aug. 30 2007,14:26)]Who said anything about a boycott? #I know my dollars don't make a difference to a large company, but I will make decisions about where to spend my money based on corporate policies. #I don't buy CITGO gas because of Hugo Chavez. #I don't partonize Wachovia Bank because of their anti-gun policy. #They don't know this and if they did, they would not care. #

Personally, the anti-ham policy doesn't really concern me, but I can appreciate the attitude.
I understand and agree with your comments. I have not stepped foot inside a BaskinRobbins 31 Flavors ice cream place for a good many years because of their turning my wife and son away and refusing to let them use the private restroom. They did not have a public restroom and my son was just being potty trained and had just told my wife he had to go. She asked the girl behind the counter and was told there was no way she and my son could use the private restroom, after asking to talk to the manager, she was informed it was not their policy, etc etc etc. When my wife told me about it, I went up there since it was fairly close to our house and spoke to the manager and she got really snippy about the whole thing citing company policy blah blah. I informed her that it was not my policy to spend money with companies that had an attitude like B/R had. I realize my 'boycott' of them has not hurt them overall, but at least I know I have not supported a company whose policies I disagree with. There are just too many other places around to do business with.
You boycott them because they follow the rules yet what would you do if there was a non ham on 10 meters!!!!!

OMG THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END LETS CALL THE FCC.

Then that CBer will boycott ham radio, would you care?

HAHAHAHAHA
"prima donnas"

[ky5u]

From the Wiki site about Six Flags in NJ in the "What's New" area:
Quote[/b] ]Also park rules prohibit no code Amateurs from carrying handheld radios in the park.
Linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Flags_Great_Adventure#What.27s_New) I kid you not.

[KC5SAS]

Someone edited that section. Doesn't say that now.

[N2RJ]

And that entry about ham radio was added by a bellsouth DSL subscriber...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ke5kzc]

At a locol Win Co store in Springfield oregon, i had my ht with me,a lady got upset about it and was saying,he might set off a bomb,with that thing,her husband said,naw its just a scanner' but she kept it up going down the isle,fearing the worst i just took it out to my car and did the rest of my shopping,tho Win Co never got involved i decided it best to forgo keeping it on my person, i supose when places have rules we should abide by them or not go there'i think ,scanners have been portrayed on tv and the movies as things that bad guys use to break the law' and joe public for most part ,just sees the negative side of it,so they just lump it all into one pile,problem is' its bound to get worse as time goes by' just my thoughts is all''

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Aug. 30 2007,20:28)]And that entry about ham radio was added by a bellsouth DSL subscriber...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yep. That's the problem with "WIKI."

The material (right or wrong) is submitted by users, and there's no moderators to check accuracy.
It can be very useful, but you must take any info from Wiki with several grains of salt and two aspirin...

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (ke5kzc @ Aug. 30 2007,21:18)]At a locol Win Co store in Springfield oregon, i had my ht with me,a lady got upset about it and was saying,he might set off a bomb,with that thing,her husband said,naw its just a scanner' but she kept it up going down the isle,fearing the worst i just took it out to my car and did the rest of my shopping,tho Win Co never got involved i decided it best to forgo keeping it on my person, i supose when places have rules we should abide by them or not go there'i think ,scanners have been portrayed on tv and the movies as things that bad guys use to break the law' and joe public for most part ,just sees the negative side of it,so they just lump it all into one pile,problem is' its bound to get worse as time goes by' just my thoughts is all''
Gotta love that public school education.

On a forum dedicated to a communications hobby it's sad the way some posts lack even the most elememtary punctuation and structure.

As for some bimbo getting all in a huff over an HT on your belt, I would have flipped the dimwit off and gone about my business.

[wv6z]

Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!

[W6GQ]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 30 2007,22:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Well put!

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Aug. 30 2007,23:40)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Aug. 30 2007,20:28)]And that entry about ham radio was added by a bellsouth DSL subscriber...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yep. That's the problem with "WIKI."

The material (right or wrong) is submitted by users, and there's no moderators to check accuracy.
It can be very useful, but you must take any info from Wiki with several grains of salt and two aspirin...
I don't see why you need a moderator to check accuracy.

Wikipedia is peer reviewed, moreso than respected academic journals.

The community generally does a good job.

Everything and anything can be challenged, especially if it doesn't cite a source. A lot of nonsense is removed because it has no source cited.

I wouldn't use it to write a paper, but it does have an interesting collection of topics.

Oh, btw, Wikipedia does have admins, and they do lock down some topics which have gotten out of hand, restricting editing only to certain people from time to time.

So don't think it is all chaos.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 31 2007,00:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Yep, that's true.

I only use my handheld radios in limited circumstances. I have ham radio in the car and at home, and that's enough.

However, I can see the usefulness of having radios available in a theme park or other public place.

Of course you can use cellphones to keep in touch, but that costs money.

You can use FRS/GMRS but everyone has those these days and the channels are usually occupied.

So maybe ham radio is useful for that...

[w3wn]

Quote[/b] (KC5SAS @ Aug. 30 2007,23:16)]Someone edited that section. #Doesn't say that now.
It did; saw it there last night. Some wisenheimer added it, another wisenheimer deleted it.

[ai4ep]

...no, we are not special.

stubborn / obnoxious / hardheaded YES, but not special.




http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Now YOU may think that YOU are special, but I do not think that I am special.

simple - accurate - to the point.

Every one have a great day !! AI4EP http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2RJ]

I think Charlie added it.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (W6GQ @ Aug. 31 2007,06:27)]Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 30 2007,22:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Well put!
Well put? Guys, this is a VERY dangerous attitude. To you, this guy may be strange, geeky and/or paranoid. You may view him as a guy with a shaky grip on reality. Fine, but what are the chances your neighbors think the same thing about you? From their point of view, you're the same as he is. You're just as odd and you're mocking and alienating him.

As long as a person is operating within the law, just let them be. You don't have to actively support the guy, but don't deride him either. Its divicive and weakens us.

[n9lya]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Aug. 29 2007,15:20)]A few days ago my wife and I decided to visit the Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in NJ. As usual, I took along a small HT to keep in touch with friends. To my surpirse I was told that I could not bring it into the park, even after showing the security guards that it could not transmit on their frequencies and that their frequencies were not programmed into memory. I told them that I was a licensed amateur operator and offered to show them my license but they were not interested. I was told that "kids" bring in altered radios and mess with their frequencies. I told them as a licensed amateur that would not only cost me my license but result in a large fine. They said that they could not make any exceptions and that they even take radios away from off duty police. I could not understand their logic as I told them that anyone can simply step off of their property and jam their frequencies. They could not understand that interferring with their radios was not an activity that needed to be done on premises and in fact, was best done at a distance to avoid detection. Of course, no one there had a clue of what an amateur radio operator was and after being subject to further searches of my bag I was told to turn over my radio. Since there were now about 3 guards around me and I was being looked at as if I was a criminal by the people in the area plus my wife was getting scared, I relented and handed over my radio. All was done very politely. I was not mistreated nor did I get beligerant. It was just that I realized that logic had no affect. #Well my wife was upset. We did not go on any rides. We ate a light meal, walked around and then got the heck out of there and will never return.

I do not recall anything about prohibiting radios on their tickets or web site. If it were there it must be buried in the fine print. Every logical argument I used was met with something about it being private property so they could do as they want. I guess following their logic I can prevent anyone entering my property from listening to the free airwaves. What is strange is that I saw a few families with family radios. I guess if you are unlicensed you can have a radio but licensed hams are untrustworthy.

Anyway, I will not go there again and urge all hams to avoid Six Flaggs properties. If just a few hundred of us boycott them it will cost them some money. I will not patronize anyplace that is ham unfriendly and I hope that you feel the same way.
I would have took the lose and NEVER HANDED over my Radio nor entered their screwed up Theme Park... And left... Paid or not...

I would send this write up you have to Six Fags and let them know what went on.. Inform them that you are unhappy and wil never return and have passed this experience on to Thousands of Amateur Radio Operators..


It may be their Policy and you have to respect it(even if its applied in a mornic method.... But you sure as hell do not have to patronize the establishment.. You do not have to HAND over Squat. You can turn around and leave..

There are other Theme Parks.. They are a Dime a Dozen..

73 jerry n9lya

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ....if all else fails, blame it on either

AI4EP

AG4YO

either one of them will be ok to blame it on....or some one else with those nasty " 4 " callsigns !!!

[n9lya]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 30 2007,17:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Hum... First the term hammie sounds GAY as hell..

Second.. My family and I go to HAM FESTS and other events that are NOT ham related and use our HTs to keep in contact so we know how to find each other.. YEs we could do it with out radios.. We could do it with Cellphones... We each have one of them too... But we chose to exercise our Ham radios.. Since that is what I have them for.. to Communicate with..
Its not just Handiness.. its convience..

If the Theme Park wants to be Paranoid so be it..

If they wish to be unfair by allowing FRS radios and not other types.. Thats theire business.. One does not have to patronize the establishment...

I am one who would tell them where to stick their Theme Park. In a nice mannor.. by handing only my ticket to someone behind me who either does not have one or has not bought one yet.. And I would leave the area.. Same for any establishment that gave me the Crap they tried to give this guy...


73 Jerry

[k0dxc]

Sad...

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif all you wise folks with all your vast intelligence and you folks aint solved this scenerio yet .....??!!

C'mon, holiday weekend coming up and this dude NEEDS answers.....like in the next post under this one !!

here it is ..........

[ka5piu]

Hello.

I asked about this policy.
Yes, it is true, Six Flags theme parks does have an issue with Modified ham rigs, people who play games with the systems.
But, it is also known that several of the bunch that does this are hams, myself included.
I have been known to get into everything at a theme park, so there is a precidence.
I run with the pack, a pack of people who think that getting into things is where it is at.
How do you think the ride attendents feel when the ride shuts down, and on the fault display it says "Sir, you are an idiot"?
I have my hands full just keeping the bunch in check.
I met a lot of them at DefCon.
http://www.defcon.org/
All are now well past the DefCon stage, now they really are a PITA.
And, to make this clear, I did not need to train anyone in Amateur Radio.
Code? no problem, the guy would just sit down and learn it.
But, yes, I will admit, I am part of the problem, a reason for six flags to have issues with foreign radios, if for no other reason than we carry them, not that it really matters, we all also have cellphones.
But, if one does research, on this very board, you will find references to pre-Con activities.
Note that nothing any of us did was in any way against the law.
The trouble is that almost all terminals at the parks are on one large network, and passwords are absent or the terminals are left logged on.
There is no excuse for this.
What would happen if somebody were to decide to attack the theme park?
But, security can only go after what they can see, and understand.
And, that is a bunch of people who can in a few hours do all kinds of things.
They carry radios and are hams.
They also carry computers and such devices.
Remember, I am the voice of reason, and I am noted for things like electric spurs, think about what the wild ones are like.
If this were a group out barhopping, I would be the designated driver.
So, I must say that I am sorry for some of the trouble.

[AB6ND]

Hi 5PIU. After reading your post several times I'm still not sure what you're trying to say.
73
ab6nd

[k0cmh]

Last year I took my HW-101, with two deep cycle batteries and the DC power supply, on a two wheeler, into the local Six Flags. #They would not let me take that in either. #I asked if it was the 31 foot Butternut strapped to the side of the two wheeler. #They said they had no problem with that, but if I wanted to take it into the park, I would have to detach it from the two wheeler. #When I asked further what was the problem, they said it was the microphone. #They thought my D104 looked to suspecious. #They said they had a problem in Michigan with a customer and a microphone. #So I went out to the car and switched the D104 for an old CB mic I had wired up to work on the HW-101. #Not a problem then #-- #got right into the park. #The only thing I didn't like was that they made me have another ticket when I took the rig on a ride. #They said it took up another whole seat. #Next time I will take my IC730. #It doesn't need so much room. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[wa9cwx]

Now THAT is a post I can relate to ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wa9cwx]

Quote[/b] (N0KLT @ Aug. 29 2007,19:50)]Personally, the anti-ham policy doesn't really concern me, but I can appreciate the attitude.
I understand and agree with your comments. I have not stepped foot inside a BaskinRobbins 31 Flavors ice cream place for a good many years because of their turning my wife and son away and refusing to let them use the private restroom. They did not have a public restroom and my son was just being potty trained and had just told my wife he had to go. She asked the girl behind the counter and was told there was no way she and my son could use the private restroom, after asking to talk to the manager, she was informed it was not their policy, etc etc etc. When my wife told me about it, I went up there since it was fairly close to our house and spoke to the manager and she got really snippy about the whole thing citing company policy blah blah. I informed her that it was not my policy to spend money with companies that had an attitude like B/R had. I realize my 'boycott' of them has not hurt them overall, but at least I know I have not supported a company whose policies I disagree with. There are just too many other places around to do business with.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Well I can certainly sympathise with your experience.

However, the LAW concerning the private bathroom, in a food serving business, in your state, and the city, at the time of the incident, MAY be the issue here.

I think I would have checked THAT first, before denying myself of Baskin Robbins Ice Cream for several years.

Their policy may only have reflected legal requirements.

[N0KLT]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Sep. 01 2007,09:50)]Well I can certainly sympathise with your experience.

However, the LAW concerning the private bathroom, in a food serving business, in your state, and the city, at the time of the incident, MAY be the issue here.

I think I would have checked THAT first, before denying myself of Baskin Robbins Ice Cream for several years.

Their policy may only have reflected legal requirements.
The city or state law was not the issue here. We and other friends with young kids had used other supposedly employee only restrooms before that and after that with no problems. It was just a matter of somebody not willing or able to make a decision on their own so fell back onto 'regulations'. As far as denying myself anything, at that time we had a far better ice cream place or string of places here in town to get goodies at, it was just not as handy as the B/R place. Right now, I am not even sure there is a B/R shop in town anymore. Too much competition from other places I guess. These days it seems like every place you go into has some sort of either coffee shop or ice cream shop or both inside their business. Plus there are all sorts of gourmet ice cream and/or frozen yogurt shops in town. I may be wrong and there might be some B/R places but I can't remember seeing one for ages. These days places like that are out of bounds for me anyway, or so says my Dr. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kc9kow]

I've read this entire post. Without making this into a big political deal, and without making this bigger than itis, let's look at these points:

Yes, amateur radio is an avocation that should not interfere with other more important things.

Yes, amateur radio is something that you can take to enjoy anywhere except when the LAW says otherwise.

The argument about what property owners may decide what people can take onto their property has been going on for ages before I was even born, and goes on today.

When it comes to people with items that are government regulated and that the person has a valid license for, this is touchy. Another poster here mentioned that he has a carry license in his state for his firearm. His license, like all gun owners is regulated and issued by state authorities who said he's safe with it. The feds also agree because he had to be federally checked.

Though there is no background check for amateur radio licensing, our licenses come straight from the feds and our ability to operate and carry our equipment is only restricted to situations involving water vessels / aircraft / and certain tightly secure facilities where we may pose a hazard / interfere with communications.

We aren't anymore special than anyone else, but I do agree that the park people were very rude and over vigilant. They could have been more professional so as to explain what their objection was.

If you plan on going on any ride...leave the radio in the car or lock it up. Everyone is correct here...these things become missiles when launched at high speeds.

So there was a contradiction by FRS radios being allowed. It was wrong, but there is also the old buisness practice that the customer is always right.

I'll relate a true event that has happened many times to me: before being licensed, I used to carry my HT receiver with me. Just for fun, nothing else.

People would just assume that I was listening in to their cell conversations, or that I could hear everything they said without the phone - period.

One person called the cops and said that they swore I was a criminal because I had a receiver and that receivers were illegal anyway.

Cops talked to me, inspected my radio, and left me alone when they decided I was ok.

Same thing has happened three times with my 2 meter HT. One copper stopped me onm the street because he just KNEW that I was conducting criminal activvity because I had a two way radio. I showed him my license, talked to hm like a person. He ran my license and my state I.D. I came back OK, but he insisted that ham radio was illegal in Chicago city limits. He lost that one.

One paranoid job swore I was spying on them, and one other swore I was going to cause everyone cancer.

The point here is that we are strange to people, and they jump to conclusions. Being friendly is the best medicine. Just a small bit of education and awareness in those moments goes a long way.

I would have just left the radio in the car or something because I do enjoy being away from the radio like we all do, as much as I love radio.

Really, it isn't a big deal. Wtite the management and tell them, and yes...send them a copy of the postings here. I really doubt you'll do anything more than give 'em all a good laugh for the moment.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Aug. 30 2007,08:32)]Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 30 2007,17:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Hum... First the term hammie sounds GAY as hell..

Second.. My family and I go to HAM FESTS and other events that are NOT ham related and use our HTs to keep in contact so we know how to find each other.. YEs we could do it with out radios.. We could do it with Cellphones... We each have one of them too... But we chose to exercise our Ham radios.. Since that is what I have them for.. to Communicate with..
Its not just Handiness.. its convience..

If the Theme Park wants to be Paranoid so be it..

If they wish to be unfair by allowing FRS radios and not other types.. Thats theire business.. One does not have to patronize the establishment...

I am one who would tell them where to stick their Theme Park. In a nice mannor.. by handing only my ticket to someone behind me who either does not have one or has not bought one yet.. And I would leave the area.. Same for any establishment that gave me the Crap they tried to give this guy...


73 Jerry
I think you missed my point. I understand that the word hammie may have offended you and for that I am sorry. Anyway, your point is well taken and I understand what you are saying and do NOT disagree with you.

My point however, seems to have fell short and it was, you are there to enjoy the sights, rides or water. Theme parks and water parks and amusement parks in general are supposed to be fun. I am not saying amateur radio and parks cannot be fun, I am saying portable rig repairs and replacement could become extreme. Unfortunately as our hobby is a niche hobby, our equipment tends to be a bit more comprehensive let's say than the 4 pack of Uniden FRS HT's that you can pick up at Wal*Mart or Circuit City.

I for one, am not independently wealthy and have no desire to replace or repair equipment every week or two at the potential cost of hundreds of dollars because we felt it was wise to be radio active at a water park, not that water proof equipment is not available, but sometimes water is not the issue, when dropping ones VX3R off of a roller coaster or into the polar bear exhibit. I did mention and thought all would understand that I said where intra-family communications is desired or needed, FRS equipment might be handy, but even at $29 per four pack, I for one would run out of disposable money that could be used for other more imaginative activities or supplies in a hurry.

I see nothing wrong with equipping everyone with an HT when needed or desired, hiking, camping, shopping and heck, why stop there, equip everyone with an FT-817 or an IC-703 in a back pack and keep in touch via CW on 40m if you so desire, but, my point is and was, there is more to life than amateur radio, radio is just a part of it for us. If you are fit and able to enjoy a bit of fun with the family, turn off the radio toys and enjoy the park for what it was intended. Radio can be a fun family pass time, but sometimes actual family fun and interaction together that does not require the use of radio to keep in touch is fun too. How do you splash your kids via radio? Hey, I don't know about you guys and gals, but I love my family and actually like seeing them and being able to physically interact with them too!

Geez you guys are WAY too defensive.

Again I say, turn of the radios once in a while....... enjoy your family...... what is more important to you?

[K2ID]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Aug. 29 2007,20:56)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.
The best part is that I listen to their frequencies from home and most of what goes on sounds like teens playing around and very little professionalism. Most things that I hear are personal in nature on their frequencies.

As to the other poster, I choose not to be understanding of other people's ignorance becasue if we all accept ignorance as an excuse, we are truly doomed. The justice system does not accept it so why should I. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K2ID]

Quote[/b] (kc9kow @ Sep. 01 2007,20:19)]I've read this entire post. Without making this into a big political deal, and without making this bigger than itis, let's look at these points:

Yes, amateur radio is an avocation that should not interfere with other more important things.

Yes, amateur radio is something that you can take to enjoy anywhere except when the LAW says otherwise.

The argument about what property owners may decide what people can take onto their property has been going on for ages before I was even born, and goes on today.

When it comes to people with items that are government regulated and that the person has a valid license for, this is touchy. Another poster here mentioned that he has a carry license in his state for his firearm. His license, like all gun owners is regulated and issued by state authorities who said he's safe with it. The feds also agree because he had to be federally checked.

Though there is no background check for amateur radio licensing, our licenses come straight from the feds and our ability to operate and carry our equipment is only restricted to situations involving water vessels / aircraft / and certain tightly secure facilities where we may pose a hazard / interfere with communications.

We aren't anymore special than anyone else, but I do agree that the park people were very rude and over vigilant. They could have been more professional so as to explain what their objection was.

If you plan on going on any ride...leave the radio in the car or lock it up. Everyone is correct here...these things become missiles when launched at high speeds.

So there was a contradiction by FRS radios being allowed. It was wrong, but there is also the old buisness practice that the customer is always right.

I'll relate a true event that has happened many times to me: before being licensed, I used to carry my HT receiver with me. Just for fun, nothing else.

People would just assume that I was listening in to their cell conversations, or that I could hear everything they said without the phone - period.

One person called the cops and said that they swore I was a criminal because I had a receiver and that receivers were illegal anyway.

Cops talked to me, inspected my radio, and left me alone when they decided I was ok.

Same thing has happened three times with my 2 meter HT. One copper stopped me onm the street because he just KNEW that I was conducting criminal activvity because I had a two way radio. I showed him my license, talked to hm like a person. He ran my license and my state I.D. I came back OK, but he insisted that ham radio was illegal in Chicago city limits. He lost that one.

One paranoid job swore I was spying on them, and one other swore I was going to cause everyone cancer.

The point here is that we are strange to people, and they jump to conclusions. Being friendly is the best medicine. Just a small bit of education and awareness in those moments goes a long way.

I would have just left the radio in the car or something because I do enjoy being away from the radio like we all do, as much as I love radio.

Really, it isn't a big deal. Wtite the management and tell them, and yes...send them a copy of the postings here. I really doubt you'll do anything more than give 'em all a good laugh for the moment.
Well, a lot of what you say is true but it is a big deal. We recently had a ham who owns a repeater in NYC hauled off to jail because a beat cop spotted him using his HT and asked him if it received police frequencies. He said yes it did and that he was allowed to have it as a licensed ham. Apparantly the cop was unaware of the expception to the NYC scanner laws for ham radio operators so he arrested him. The poor ham had to wait hours until he could contact a local politician he knew who made a phone call and then he was released without so much as an apology.

You see, if you keep accepting ignorance you too can end up in jail and you may not be lucky enough to know someone who could release you with a phone call.

[K2ID]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Sep. 02 2007,05:33)]Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Aug. 30 2007,08:32)]Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Aug. 30 2007,17:45)]Okay, so, if you were going to a theme park or an amusement park, I can see the handiness of the entire family having a FRS HT, or if you are a radio active hammie family, a hammie HT, but, if you are going to a theme park or an amusement park, aren’t you going for the rides and stuff? Or, to play in water if you are going to a water park? I understand some of us have to live the dream 24/7 and have to go for the full effect of geekiness to maintain the freak show façade, but, seriously, what would you want to carry your HT into one of these places for anyway? To alert ARES, RACES or Skywarn locals of impending doom? C’mon gang, give it a rest once in a while and have some social fun with the rest of the human race…… just give it a rest…. Sheesh!
Hum... First the term hammie sounds GAY as hell..

Second.. My family and I go to HAM FESTS and other events that are NOT ham related and use our HTs to keep in contact so we know how to find each other.. YEs we could do it with out radios.. We could do it with Cellphones... We each have one of them too... But we chose to exercise our Ham radios.. Since that is what I have them for.. to Communicate with..
Its not just Handiness.. its convience..

If the Theme Park wants to be Paranoid so be it..

If they wish to be unfair by allowing FRS radios and not other types.. Thats theire business.. One does not have to patronize the establishment...

I am one who would tell them where to stick their Theme Park. In a nice mannor.. by handing only my ticket to someone behind me who either does not have one or has not bought one yet.. And I would leave the area.. Same for any establishment that gave me the Crap they tried to give this guy...


73 Jerry
I think you missed my point. I understand that the word hammie may have offended you and for that I am sorry. Anyway, your point is well taken and I understand what you are saying and do NOT disagree with you.

My point however, seems to have fell short and it was, you are there to enjoy the sights, rides or water. Theme parks and water parks and amusement parks in general are supposed to be fun. I am not saying amateur radio and parks cannot be fun, I am saying portable rig repairs and replacement could become extreme. Unfortunately as our hobby is a niche hobby, our equipment tends to be a bit more comprehensive let's say than the 4 pack of Uniden FRS HT's that you can pick up at Wal*Mart or Circuit City.

I for one, am not independently wealthy and have no desire to replace or repair equipment every week or two at the potential cost of hundreds of dollars because we felt it was wise to be radio active at a water park, not that water proof equipment is not available, but sometimes water is not the issue, when dropping ones VX3R off of a roller coaster or into the polar bear exhibit. I did mention and thought all would understand that I said where intra-family communications is desired or needed, FRS equipment might be handy, but even at $29 per four pack, I for one would run out of disposable money that could be used for other more imaginative activities or supplies in a hurry.

I see nothing wrong with equipping everyone with an HT when needed or desired, hiking, camping, shopping and heck, why stop there, equip everyone with an FT-817 or an IC-703 in a back pack and keep in touch via CW on 40m if you so desire, but, my point is and was, there is more to life than amateur radio, radio is just a part of it for us. If you are fit and able to enjoy a bit of fun with the family, turn off the radio toys and enjoy the park for what it was intended. Radio can be a fun family pass time, but sometimes actual family fun and interaction together that does not require the use of radio to keep in touch is fun too. How do you splash your kids via radio? Hey, I don't know about you guys and gals, but I love my family and actually like seeing them and being able to physically interact with them too!

Geez you guys are WAY too defensive.

Again I say, turn of the radios once in a while....... enjoy your family...... what is more important to you?
It seems that many posters here are assuming that my HT was carelessly carried about. In fact, it was in my backpack, in a waterproof compartment, tightly secured. I am no novice when it comes to theme parks and know the dangers and risks. My camera was also in a waterproof compartment. My glasses were secured to my had with a strap for that purpose. There were no safety issues involved.

As to why I took it? I took it for the same reasons I took a cell phone, flashlight, a camera, bandaids, and other items I might need. I lived through 9/11 where I could not get home or contact my family by phone and walked down stairs in pitch black because I had no flashlight. It was then that I learned that you never know when disaster can strike but it is usually the day that you did not bring those items that would come in handy. Since then I carry a little kit of essentials which include an HT, cell phone, three days worth of my medications, etc. In my car I have enough food and water for three days. Overkill you may say, but I learned first hand of the value of having these items handy at all times because even though you are on a vacation, it does not mean you are exempt from the deeds of others.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Sep. 03 2007,10:48)]As to why I took it? I took it for the same reasons I took a cell phone, flashlight, a camera, bandaids, and other items I might need. I lived through 9/11 where I could not get home or contact my family by phone and walked down stairs in pitch black because I had no flashlight. It was then that I learned that you never know when disaster can strike but it is usually the day that you did not bring those items that would come in handy. Since then I carry a little kit of essentials which include an HT, cell phone, three days worth of my medications, etc. In my car I have enough food and water for three days. Overkill you may say, but I learned first hand of the value of having these items handy at all times because even though you are on a vacation, it does not mean you are exempt from the deeds of others.
I was really hoping you'd post something to this effect. This is exactly why I got into ham radio in the first place. Its a basic tool of preparedness.

A lot of people looked at the events of 9/11 and made some fundamental changes in their lives. Some avoid flying. Others let bigotry take over. Some took it as a wake up call. You can't control everything. Some things are just beyond prediction. The prepared American doesn't plan for a specific emergency. He/she plans to survive whatever gets thrown at them. That includes being able to communicate and move when others can't.

I applaud your mindset. Its not strange nor crazy to carry an HT wherever you do. The same applies to a first aid kit, Leatherman tool and a bottle of water. Too bad some places make it difficult to do this.

[ka5piu]

Quote[/b] (n2vin @ Sep. 03 2007,10:32)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Aug. 29 2007,20:56)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I wonder if Six Flags employees & security / etc has a FCC license to use what ever frequencies they may be talking on ?

A bit of research might be in order.
The best part is that I listen to their frequencies from home and most of what goes on sounds like teens playing around and very little professionalism. Most things that I hear are personal in nature on their frequencies.

As to the other poster, I choose not to be understanding of other people's ignorance becasue if we all accept ignorance as an excuse, we are truly doomed. The justice system does not accept it so why should I. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Hello.

True.
Most emplyees of theme parks are teenagers.
So, having a bunch of teenage, and older who still think they are, kids who have decided that a day at the theme park is where it is at can be a real handful if this is also a bunch of hackers.
Respect for the security department? who are we kidding?
So, the security department, having been mentally battered, sees this guy with a backpack and a full, in case all else fails kit.
No, that is not the normal park customer.
3 day supply of medicine, a radio, all the other stuff?
At the superbowl, unless you have made prior arrangements, you can carry No bag, leave alone a backpack.
So, the talkies are in pockets, along with everything else.
I can carry a lot of stuff if need be.
My computer of choice in such a case is the Toshiba Libretto, a full computer that will sit in the palm of the hand.
ANY sort of weapon is banned, but a multitool and mini-maglite in a pouch is fine.
The VX3R was bought primarily as it looks like a small AM/FM radio, and with stereo earbuds, the effect is complete.
The HTC wizard is a smartphone, as well as both a WiFi and bluetooth device.
The VX-7R is programmed in channel display mode with GMRS, and fits in perfect.
Bottom line, I walk in looking like anyone else.
If I want to do a business establisment, I walk in with a suit and tie, and everything neatly placed inside a halliburton or samsonite briefcase.
I go that extra mile to look the part.
Even as a kid, Amateur Radio was not something I would make stand out.
My first portable rig, the AN/GRC-9.
I repainted that thing blue, the original paint was a lost cause anyway.
I used a 500 type PTT handset and a bit of fishing line wrapped around the antenna and had it sit in a repainted toy wagon with wooden slats.
Most though it looked funny, me playing with a telephone in a wagon rolling around.
Very few did know, that this was in fact a working radio.
I could bring that thing to school and people would just grin.
I later had somebody in shop produce a plywood "bottom" and bench seat for me, the disguise was complete.
The radio would sit inside the wagon, hidden from view.
I did this, as I really hated the adopted parents, knowing that if they found this radio, it would be smashed, just like the ones before.
So, yes, I understand the desire to have a radio.
I also know that most people have no idea of what they are looking at.
My gain dipole for VHF and UHF is the umbrellatenna, a very popular disguise antenna in Japan that looks just like an unbrella, and works for that also!
There is even a place to hide the cable inside the handle.
And, I got this in blue even.

[AA0CX]

Oh my gosh, get real: It's a private enterprise, and like it or not, they make the rules as to what may be brought in and what may not. As someone else suggesed on here, suck it up, put the rig in the glove compartment go into the park and enjoy the day. I don't know of one case where being without an HT for a day at an amusement park was so overwhelmingly bad it caused withdrawal to the point of being unable to enjoy the day. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n9yb]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Aug. 30 2007,12:07)]There ARE other things in life, besides Ham Radio ! ! ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
yea...like the Internet!

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 03 2007,15:12)]Oh my gosh, get real: #It's a private enterprise, and like it or not, they make the rules as to what may be brought in and what may not. #As someone else suggesed on here, suck it up, put the rig in the glove compartment go into the park and enjoy the day. #I don't know of one case where being without an HT for a day at an amusement park was so overwhelmingly bad it caused withdrawal to the point of being unable to enjoy the day. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
And I'll bet you also never heard of a person innocently driving across a bridge on the way home from work when it dropped out from underneath them either.

Mocking those who choose to be prepared for what is not obvious is easy isn't it? Every single day, there are people like the originator of this thread who choose to be just a bit more prepared than the rest of the population. He obviously put some thought into it and made sure his preperations are not onerous nor obvious. They are just intelligent choices to make sure he isn't caught with his pants down.

Plenty of people show up to public places with small packs. Parents do it all the time. People will bring food, camera equipment and all sorts of extraneous stuff. At least the contents of this pack are useful items.

Yes, an amusment park is private property and they have to right to set the rules. We also have the right to point it out to others so they can make deicions with more information. Nothing wrong with that.

[W8NSI]

ko0m said: " -. --- -.-. --- -.. . .... .- -- ... .- .-. . .-.. .- --.. -.-- "

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif heh heh heh

As for rules being logical... I worked at a place where they use propane and other flammable gasses as pressurizing propellants to package materials. We were told to leave cell phones, IPODS, and even wireless key remotes for the car in a locker in the entry lounge.

Then after entering I see them running forklifts and using UHF or VHF fm radios (some kenwoods and Motorolas) all over the plant. They claim those radios and power equipment are safe.

Go Figure!

Rules are rules no matter how screwed up they are.

[AA0CX]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 03 2007,19:47)]Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 03 2007,15:12)]Oh my gosh, get real: #It's a private enterprise, and like it or not, they make the rules as to what may be brought in and what may not. #As someone else suggesed on here, suck it up, put the rig in the glove compartment go into the park and enjoy the day. #I don't know of one case where being without an HT for a day at an amusement park was so overwhelmingly bad it caused withdrawal to the point of being unable to enjoy the day. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
And I'll bet you also never heard of a person innocently driving across a bridge on the way home from work when it dropped out from underneath them either.

Mocking those who choose to be prepared for what is not obvious is easy isn't it? #Every single day, there are people like the originator of this thread who choose to be just a bit more prepared than the rest of the population. #He obviously put some thought into it and made sure his preperations are not onerous nor obvious. #They are just intelligent choices to make sure he isn't caught with his pants down. #

Plenty of people show up to public places with small packs. #Parents do it all the time. #People will bring food, camera equipment and all sorts of extraneous stuff. #At least the contents of this pack are useful items.

Yes, an amusment park is private property and they have to right to set the rules. #We also have the right to point it out to others so they can make deicions with more information. #Nothing wrong with that.
I don't believe that my having an HT on my person in an amusement park will make one iota's bit of difference to humanity in the event of a problem or a disaster at the park. There's a not-so-subtle difference between being prepared and a whacker mentality where you're "unprepared" if you don't have an HT on your hip.

What are you going to do? Step in? Take charge? Save the day? Hardly http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 04 2007,05:46)]I don't believe that my having an HT on my person in an amusement park will make one iota's bit of difference to humanity in the event of a problem or a disaster at the park. #There's a not-so-subtle difference between being prepared and a whacker mentality where you're "unprepared" if you don't have an HT on your hip. #

What are you going to do? #Step in? #Take charge? #Save the day? #Hardly #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Are you serious? You don't live near Washington DC or New York City do you? Do you know what happened to communications on 9/11? Everybody got on their cell phones. It jammed the system. It wasn't until that night that you could actually get a call out.

Now, picture that you're not at your home or office with easy access to news and TV. Say you're at a mall, park, race track, football stadium or amusement park when there is a natural disaster, terrorist attack or just an accident that causes massive destruction near by. How are you going to communicate? How are you going to find out where and what the danger really is? Are you going to rely on the minimum wage security staff at the event to lead you to safety? Do you think the first aid station will be able to help you? Do you want to be part of the hoards that are running around like chickens with their heads cut off or would you rather take care of yourself?

You say that's far fetched? Perhaps it is. I've gone to plenty of sporting events, amusement parks and other public events without a single event such as this happening. Taking just a few easy precautions doesn't make one a "wacker".

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,09:16)]Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 04 2007,05:46)]I don't believe that my having an HT on my person in an amusement park will make one iota's bit of difference to humanity in the event of a problem or a disaster at the park. There's a not-so-subtle difference between being prepared and a whacker mentality where you're "unprepared" if you don't have an HT on your hip.

What are you going to do? Step in? Take charge? Save the day? Hardly http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Are you serious? You don't live near Washington DC or New York City do you? Do you know what happened to communications on 9/11? Everybody got on their cell phones. It jammed the system. It wasn't until that night that you could actually get a call out.

Now, picture that you're not at your home or office with easy access to news and TV. Say you're at a mall, park, race track, football stadium or amusement park when there is a natural disaster, terrorist attack or just an accident that causes massive destruction near by. How are you going to communicate? How are you going to find out where and what the danger really is? Are you going to rely on the minimum wage security staff at the event to lead you to safety? Do you think the first aid station will be able to help you? Do you want to be part of the hoards that are running around like chickens with their heads cut off or would you rather take care of yourself?

You say that's far fetched? Perhaps it is. I've gone to plenty of sporting events, amusement parks and other public events without a single event such as this happening. Taking just a few easy precautions doesn't make one a "wacker".
I lived in NYC for 9/11 (I was actually an AEC for Manhattan ARES) and while the networks were jammed, I don't think that ham radio "saved the day" it just helped in clean up operations. The NYC news media pretty much carried all the info that the average citizen needed. Listening to the NYPD and FDNY on the scanner, it was a complete mess.

I've also been to Six Flags and I think that the park employees have a better handle on the situation than the average hammie does.

If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.

[AA0CX]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,07:16)]Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 04 2007,05:46)]I don't believe that my having an HT on my person in an amusement park will make one iota's bit of difference to humanity in the event of a problem or a disaster at the park. #There's a not-so-subtle difference between being prepared and a whacker mentality where you're "unprepared" if you don't have an HT on your hip. #

What are you going to do? #Step in? #Take charge? #Save the day? #Hardly #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Are you serious? #You don't live near Washington DC or New York City do you? #Do you know what happened to communications on 9/11? #Everybody got on their cell phones. #It jammed the system. #It wasn't until that night that you could actually get a call out. #

Now, picture that you're not at your home or office with easy access to news and TV. #Say you're at a mall, park, race track, football stadium or amusement park when there is a natural disaster, terrorist attack or just an accident that causes massive destruction near by. #How are you going to communicate? #How are you going to find out where and what the danger really is? #Are you going to rely on the minimum wage security staff at the event to lead you to safety? #Do you think the first aid station will be able to help you? #Do you want to be part of the hoards that are running around like chickens with their heads cut off or would you rather take care of yourself?

You say that's far fetched? #Perhaps it is. #I've gone to plenty of sporting events, amusement parks and other public events without a single event such as this happening. #Taking just a few easy precautions doesn't make one a "wacker".
If I were the owner of any major amusement park in the country, I would take extreme offense at your statement: The security staff at such parks are well versed in proper procedure to evacuate an amusement park in the event of anything untoward occurring: loose animals, bomb threat or [insert your worst imagination here]. The security staff knows the "lay of the land" at the park -- and chances are, you don't.

I'll trust any security person to direct me to safety, any day...rather than fire up my HT and ask "what's going on, how do I get out of here, etc." Yes, there will be hoardes of people wanting to leave. Are you going to get on your HT, HOPE you get an answer, and trust somebody to know what you're talking about and lead you over the radio out of any given situation? Think about how foolish that would be.

In addition, the news media provides most accurate information to those in the immediate vicinity of an incident. How do I know? I'm a newsman -- and have been for almost 40 years, and I've covered everything imaginable during my years on the street. I also know from first hand experience that emergency personnel DON'T want "do-gooders" and would-be volunteers showing up on scene and hanging around.

If you happen upon an accident, fire, etc., do your best, help out, but when the professionals get there -- brief the officer in charge and LEAVE!

[K9STH]

NSI:

I don't know about the particular situation that you described. However, Motorola (and other manufacturers as well) make various equipment that is defined by OSHA as "intrinsinctly safe". This equipment is made with specific circuitry that will not "spark" under any conditions including PTT.

Such equipment is approved for use in mines, grain elevators, petroleum storage, and any other place that explosions can happen if there is any spark (including those caused by static electricity). Using any equipment that is not approved by OSHA (and other agencies that may be involved) is a serious safety violation and can result in very heavy fines if used. Other equipment also has to meet these very stringent safety requirements.

Years ago, beginning when I established the first Motorola portable and paging repair facility outside of the Chicago area plant and then owned the Motorola reconditioned equipment center for the south-central United States, I became very familar with equipment that had to meet the safety requirements for hazzardous atmospheres. Certain precautions have to be made when working on this equipment to insure that the integrity was maintained.

Again, I do not know the particulars of the situation that you described. However, prohibiting any items (i.e. cellular telephones) that are not certified for use in such atmospheres is definitely required by OSHA and other agencies.

Glen, K9STH

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. #As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero?

And to CX, I don't care if amusement park owners are offended by my viewpoint. In my experience, the "security" at parks like this are well versed in directing people to the nearest restroom and taking acre of line breakers on the rollercoaster. Any real trouble requires a call to real law enforcement. Trust them is you want. I don't care. I just think its terribly arrogant to criticize others if they don't have the faith in the system that you do... as a newsman. LOL.

Guys... the point of this thread was to point out that Six Flags has a policy against hams and are not very charming about enforcing this. It got derailed into a discussion of what is a "wacker" or nut case or wannabe superhero. I don't know why there is such a need on some people's part to put down those who defy the herd mentality, but its really pathetic. The herd mentality prevented three plane loads of people from stopping 9/11 before it happened. The herd mentality left hundreds of people in the towers. The herd mentality puts its security into the hands of strangers. Those strangers do NOT have your individual best interests at heart.

An HT is not going to save your life. It can be part of an overall mindset of preparedness. If you choose not to have that mindset, I don't criticize you. You're free to follow the instructions of whomever has been left in charge. Personally, I'm going to make extra efforts to get better information if possible.

Oh and the point about private property was not missed. They can do what they want and I can make my decisions based upon their choices.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,11:59)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero?
It is quite clear you want to be a hero. You scoff at the idea of the trained park staff helping you, and show a willingness to disregard their instructions.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,10:17)]Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,11:59)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. #As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero?
It is quite clear you want to be a hero. #You scoff at the idea of the trained park staff helping you, and show a willingness to disregard their instructions.
That's a hero? Well, if that's the definition, the English language has evolved more than I thought. I guess we'll agree to disagree and will do so respectfully.

[AA0CX]

Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. #As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero? #

And to CX, #I just think its terribly arrogant to criticize others if they don't have the faith in the system that you do... as a newsman. #LOL.

#The herd mentality left hundreds of people in the towers. #The herd mentality puts its security into the hands of strangers. #Those strangers do NOT have your individual best interests at heart. #
I didn't say I have faith in the system: I have faith in common sense, e.g., letting experts handle situations regarding evacuation or on-scene incidents instead of another ham, maybe in another area, telling me where to go and how to get out of an amusement park. I'm certainly not going to STAY, if there's something untoward happening.

-o-

And as far as the herd mentality goes, we can't say that was a factor or not, since all the people aboard all three planes...are dead.

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,10:17)]Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,11:59)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero?
It is quite clear you want to be a hero. You scoff at the idea of the trained park staff helping you, and show a willingness to disregard their instructions.
And, the question I have to the original poster also is:

If you do not trust the staff, then why would you take your family to a place where the staff, by your commentary, is not trustworthy?

Or are you just going on the law of averages and hope, ie, on average an emergency doesn't happen much, and you hope that today isn't the day that Murphy's law doesn't suddenly rear up and something happens?

If I didn't trust the staff at such a place I wouldn't go there, I wouldn't let my kids ride on rides INSPECTED AND OPERATED by said staff, etc, etc.

[K4GUN]

Quote[/b] (AA0CX @ Sep. 04 2007,10:35)]Quote[/b] (k4gun @ Sep. 04 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ Sep. 04 2007,07:39)]If you try to be a hero, you will only get in the way.

Besides, you miss the important point - Six Flags is private property. #As long as they don't discriminate based on race, sex, religion or national origin, they can set whatever rules they want.
Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous statement, who said anything about being a hero? #

And to CX, #I just think its terribly arrogant to criticize others if they don't have the faith in the system that you do... as a newsman. #LOL.

#The herd mentality left hundreds of people in the towers. #The herd mentality puts its security into the hands of strangers. #Those strangers do NOT have your individual best interests at heart. #
I didn't say I have faith in the system: #I have faith in common sense, e.g., letting experts handle situations regarding evacuation or on-scene incidents instead of another ham, maybe in another area, telling me where to go and how to get out of an amusement park. #I'm certainly not going to STAY, if there's something untoward happening.

-o-

And as far as the herd mentality goes, we can't say that was a factor or not, since all the people aboard all three planes...are dead.
Really? Here's what you said: "I'll trust any security person to direct me to safety, any day"

That is what I misunderstood as your expressing faith in the the system.

I would also point out that you're making some assumptions that are erronious. You're assuming that the "hero types" are running in after emergency crews on on site. That's 180 degrees out of phase. The "hero types" (AKA sheepdogs), are already on scene and make every effort to stabilize things until professional help arrives. A good example of this is the guy on the bridge in MN who helpsed those kids off the school bus. Nobody looks at him and says, "He just should have stayed out of the way. He just made things harder for the professionals."

That bridge collapse is even a good example of how an HT could have been useful. "This is K4XXX, I ha