View Full Version : Netroots Ignorance Openly Demonstrated
kg6amw
08-26-2007, 01:45 PM
The Huffington Post published a plea to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs today to arrest President Bush for "conduct unbecoming" -- essentially, a military coup against the elected government of the United States. Martin Lewis claims that the military can arrest a President while not conducting a coup d'etat by focusing only on his role as Commander in Chief of the military:
General Pace - you have the power to fulfill your responsibility to protect the troops under your command. Indeed you have an obligation to do so. #You can relieve the President of his command. #Not of his Presidency. But of his military role as Commander-In-Chief. #In addition to relieving him of his command as Commander-In-Chief, you also have authority to place the President under MILITARY arrest.
Lewis quotes extensively from the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but clearly his scholarship does not extend to the Constitution. The command of the armed forces follows from the president's election to office, and cannot be separated from the office itself. Bush isn't Commander-In-Chief because he got appointed to that position, but because the American electorate voted him into that role. In other words, the military cannot arrest the Commander-In-Chief but leave the President in power, and to argue otherwise is to demonstrate complete ignorance.
Huffington is bordering on seditious behavior. #She needs to be taken down a peg or two, namely arrest her for sedition.
Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.
Because sedition is typically considered a subversive act, the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where those legal codes have a traceable history, there is also a record of the change of definition for what constituted sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within study of persecution.
The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).
Put simply, sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state and has to do with giving aid to enemies or levying war. Sedition is more about encouraging the people to rebel, when treason is actually betraying the country.
K2WH
kc0ukk
08-26-2007, 03:35 PM
A muddied thinker with an Internet connection is tough to prosecute. Freedom of speech would probably cover this idiocy; Huffington added 2 + 2, arrived at 5 and excitedly informed the world of her discovery. Nothing covert, no violence, just following the dictates of her byzantine mind.
k4kyv
08-26-2007, 05:33 PM
Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Aug. 26 2007,15:20)]Sedition is a term of law which refers to covert conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.
Because sedition is typically considered a subversive act, the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where those legal codes have a traceable history, there is also a record of the change of definition for what constituted sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within study of persecution.
The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).
Put simply, sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state and has to do with giving aid to enemies or levying war. Sedition is more about encouraging the people to rebel, when treason is actually betraying the country.
Washington, Jefferson, Madison and Franklin would have hanged under similar charges if France had not helped us defeat the British.
Now I am just absolutely positive that Huffington is going to "stir up" the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to arrest Bush, so therefore she should be executed at dawn.
KA8DKT
08-26-2007, 05:37 PM
Quote[/b] ]Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution...
So arrest bush and Cheney for sedition.
-gary
This section of QRZ is so infested with libs it is making it hard to continue. Huffington is the one who should be arrested but the libs here want to arrest Bush and Cheney.
I give up, you people are useless.
K2WH
Link guys. I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. Inquiring minds want to know.
w2amr
08-26-2007, 07:24 PM
Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Aug. 26 2007,12:06)]This section of QRZ is so infested with libs it is making it hard to continue. #Huffington is the one who should be arrested but the libs here want to arrest Bush and Cheney.
I give up, you people are useless.
K2WH
Go sit on top of your tower, let the birds poop on you. You'll feel better. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kg6amw
08-26-2007, 07:27 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:20)]Link guys. #I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. #You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. #Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-....85.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/general-pace-you-can-sa_b_61785.html)
n2ize
08-26-2007, 07:30 PM
Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Aug. 26 2007,12:06)]This section of QRZ is so infested with libs it is making it hard to continue. #Huffington is the one who should be arrested but the libs here want to arrest Bush and Cheney.
I give up, you people are useless.
K2WH
Huffington should be arrested for what ? Is that the kind of country you want to live in ? Do you want to live in a country where you can be carted away for publically saying that you disagree with the policies of the government Is that what you really want ? Do you really want to live in a country where sedition laws are enfoirced to the point where someone can be arrested for making a statement that the government at that time decides is subversive ?
Perhaps you do and the most likely reason is because you feel that the only people who would be arrested would be libs and hippie anti war demonstrators of which you likely feel the world would be a better place whthout anyway. After all, how dare anyone dare to disagree with official warmaking policy. But what about if let's say somebody like Hillary gets elected and the ball is in her court. Next time some conservative refers to her as a socilist or a commie left wing lib she may apply the same sedition laws to work in her favor and silence her opponents.
Remember, the bed you make today is the bed you'll have to sleep in tomorrow. Or, better said, the future is purchased by the present. Today it may be the dissenting voices of what you may look upon as undersireable left wing libs that gets silenced. However, the voice that hgets silenced tomorrow could be your own.
Do we really want to build a country that responds to voices of dissent as they do in China, Cuba, Burma, or Saudi Arabia ? Is that really where you'd like to see this country go ?
kg4rqa
08-26-2007, 07:31 PM
Right around dinnertime it won't seem so important, anyhoo. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Quote[/b] (kg6amw @ Aug. 26 2007,15:27)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:20)]Link guys. I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-....85.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/general-pace-you-can-sa_b_61785.html)
Um, I know you guys don't normally read, so this is rather new to you, but "Huffington" didn't post that. Martin Lewis did and it's in his opinion piece. Where were all you guys when Rush was calling for President Clinton to be shot?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
w2amr
08-26-2007, 07:49 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:39)]Quote[/b] (kg6amw @ Aug. 26 2007,15:27)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:20)]Link guys. #I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. #You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. #Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-....85.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/general-pace-you-can-sa_b_61785.html)
Um, I know you guys don't normally read, so this is rather new to you, but "Huffington" didn't post that. #Martin Lewis did and it's in his opinion piece. #Where were all you guys when Rush was calling for President Clinton to be shot?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah but, yeah but, Rush is just an entertainer . He was just joking. He was taken out of context. Etc, etc.
While I think that Bush is a complete idiot and the worst president in all history, Martin Lewis who wrote this piece has less intelligence than a rock. Bush is not subject to the UCMJ as he is not in the military. The Constitution makes him the CinC but his military service, if you can call it that, is limited to his time in the ANG dodging going to Viet Nam. The only legal means of removing Bush as CinC is to impeach and remove him from office. That would make Cheney both president and CinC and would be worse than suffering another year plus under Bush.
Quote[/b] ] MILITARY DECORATIONS & HONORS AWARDED TO GENERAL PETER PACE
Defense Distinguished Service Medal with two bronze oak leaf clusters (3 awards), Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of MeritBronze Star Medal with Valor device, Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal with gold award star (2 awards), Navy Commendation Medal with Valor device, Navy Achievement Medal with gold award star (2 awards), Combat Action Ribbon, Navy Presidential Unit Citation with bronze service star (2 awards), Joint Meritorious Unit Commendation with three bronze oak leaf clusters (4 awards), Navy Unit Commendation with bronze service star (2 awards), Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation with three bronze service stars (4 awards), National Defense Service Medal with two bronze service stars (3 awards), Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal with two bronze service stars (3 awards), Vietnam Service Medal with silver and bronze service stars, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Korea Defense Service Medal, Sea Service Deployment Ribbon with two bronze service stars (3 awards), Overseas Service Ribbon with three bronze service stars (4 awards), Recruiting Service Ribbon, United Nations Medal with bronze service star and the Congressional Medal of Honor Society Patriot Award.
MILITARY DECORATIONS & HONORS AWARDED TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
errrr... there aren't any.
Quote[/b] (w2amr @ Aug. 26 2007,12:49)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:39)]Quote[/b] (kg6amw @ Aug. 26 2007,15:27)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:20)]Link guys. I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-....85.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/general-pace-you-can-sa_b_61785.html)
Um, I know you guys don't normally read, so this is rather new to you, but "Huffington" didn't post that. Martin Lewis did and it's in his opinion piece. Where were all you guys when Rush was calling for President Clinton to be shot?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah but, yeah but, Rush is just an entertainer . He was just joking. He was taken out of context. Etc, etc.
You got it all wrong.
Rush was just high at the time. Yeah, that's it, he was high.
Wonder how many people actually stop and realize that they are getting their opinions from a drug addict?
w2amr
08-26-2007, 10:05 PM
Quote[/b] (al2n @ Aug. 26 2007,14:16)]Quote[/b] (w2amr @ Aug. 26 2007,12:49)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:39)]Quote[/b] (kg6amw @ Aug. 26 2007,15:27)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Aug. 26 2007,12:20)]Link guys. #I've seen these kind of accusations bandied about before by neocons. #You may be right, but every time I've seen a neocon mention the words sedition and treason, they've been either distortions or gross lies.
If she said it, post it. #Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-....85.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/general-pace-you-can-sa_b_61785.html)
Um, I know you guys don't normally read, so this is rather new to you, but "Huffington" didn't post that. #Martin Lewis did and it's in his opinion piece. #Where were all you guys when Rush was calling for President Clinton to be shot?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah but, yeah but, Rush is just an entertainer . He was just joking. He was taken out of context. Etc, etc.
You got it all wrong.
Rush was just high at the time. #Yeah, that's it, he was high.
Wonder how many people actually stop and realize that they are getting their opinions from a drug addict?
http://www.newsweekeducation.com/tg/images/cartoon_2003_10_27.gif
Quote[/b] (W0MT @ Aug. 26 2007,12:59)]The only legal means of removing Bush as CinC is to impeach and remove him from office.
As Martin Lewis would know if he bothered to read the United States Constitution.
Like it or not, or whether he's right or wrong in his decisions, the President is Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces as long as he holds the office of President of the United States.