View Full Version : WA5KUB's live video from the Huntsville Hamfest
g4tut
08-18-2007, 05:03 PM
WA5KUB's live video stream from the Huntsville Hamfest
The Huntsville Hamfest, the big event for hams in the Southeastern United States, got underway today.
Held at Huntsville's Von Braun Center, the hamfest is a two-day event run over the third full weekend in August
Tom Medlin, WA5KUB will, once again, be streaming live audio and video of this year's event via the internet.
At times the camera may be in a fixed location showing the entire fleamarket, but at other times they will be wearing the now-famous 'Helmet Cam'. With the Helmet cam, you will actually be walking around with them and visiting all the exhibitors.
Tom's website also features a live chat board where hams from all over the world can log-on and chat to Tom and others, while watching the live video stream. This is a great way to take part in a great ham radio experience even if you are unable attend. Their last broadcast was viewed by hams in over 152 countries
They are expected to broadcast from the Hamfest all day on Saturday Aug 18th and again on Sunday Aug 19th.
Tom's website is at http://www.wa5kub.com
For more information on the Huntsville Hamfest go to http://hamfest.org
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kc5wxc
08-19-2007, 01:44 AM
SURE WISH I WAS THERE ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
73's
kc5wxc
n5rfx
08-19-2007, 02:46 AM
Great Hamfest! I am really enjoying myself.
73,
Mark N5RFX
KQ6XA
08-19-2007, 08:08 AM
More photos of the Huntsville Hamfest and GAREC-2007 (http://hflink.com/garec/).
Mobat exhibit photos click here (http://hflink.com/mobat/)
Great hamfest!! #Lots of good stuff. #CQ VHF editor Joe Lynch and I had a good time talking about history. #Their table sure had better deals than ARRL's.
The Ham Radio magazine anthologies are great. #Bought the whole set. #A great collection and a great hamfest price.
I talked with Ed Hare and Dave Sumner of ARRL and Martin Jue, owner of MFJ for a few minutes as well. #I wanted to meet and talk with Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, but missed running into him.
Lots of parts and pieces dealers. #Kinda like a subset of what Halted, Haltek, Weirdstuff, and RA Enterprises used to be like in Silicon Valley. #That stuff I miss having around whenever I needed a part.
Of course, only one is still in business in Silicon Valley. #I guess they have stores like those in Silicon China or Silicon India.
I left the 'fest somewhat encouraged to see maybe 25 or so young folks there. #Under 20 or so. #That was great to see as at least there still are young people getting ham tickets. Had one come up to me and write my call and name. As Dave Sumner said, ARRL had a youth contest, not unlike their passport one, to get all call districts at the hamfest. A cool idea....
Only 'needs improvement' was the parking. #I had to pay $5 to park in the basement of the center. #There used to be a bridge across the dry creek behind the center where many could park for free. #With a 7 foot 6 #inch limit, many with even 5/8 roof mounts had to take them off, let alone HF whips. But, I probably could have found something down the block a ways.....
73,
n1jbs
08-19-2007, 01:03 PM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,08:36)]Great hamfest!! #Lots of good stuff. #CQ VHF editor Joe Lynch and I had a good time talking about history. #Their table sure had better deals than ARRL's.
The Ham Radio magazine anthologies are great. #Bought the whole set. #A great collection and a great hamfest price.
I talked with Ed Hare and Dave Sumner of ARRL and Martin Jue, owner of MFJ for a few minutes as well. #I wanted to meet and talk with Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, but missed running into him.
Lots of parts and pieces dealers. #Kinda like a subset of what Halted, Haltek, Weirdstuff, and RA Enterprises used to be like in Silicon Valley. #That stuff I miss having around whenever I needed a part.
Of course, only one is still in business in Silicon Valley. #I guess they have stores like those in Silicon China or Silicon India.
I left the 'fest somewhat encouraged to see maybe 25 or so young folks there. #Under 20 or so. #That was great to see as at least there still are young people getting ham tickets. #Had one come up to me and write my call and name. #As Dave Sumner said, ARRL had a youth contest, not unlike their passport one, to get all call districts at the hamfest. #A cool idea....
Only 'needs improvement' was the parking. #I had to pay $5 to park in the basement of the center. #There used to be a bridge across the dry creek behind the center where many could park for free. #With a 7 foot 6 #inch limit, many with even 5/8 roof mounts had to take them off, let alone HF whips. #But, I probably could have found something down the block a ways.....
73,
You mean you talked to "if Ed says its ok, then its ok "
Hare from the ARRL? I guess he actually made it in his "new " truck (at least new to him).
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 18 2007,02:08)]More photos of the Huntsville Hamfest and GAREC-2007 (http://hflink.com/garec/).
Mobat exhibit photos click here (http://hflink.com/mobat/)
Nice photos, Bonnie. #Isn't ALE, as your site explains it, a form of automatically-controlled digital exhange between two stations to attempt to make the links?
Use of same outside of the digital subbands is not in conformance with Part 97. #Sorry about that.
If Regulation by Bandwidth had been successful, it would have been. #Better luck next time.
In the interim, you could always use four-tone SelCall ™ in HF SSB segments, Bonnie. #Just like the FAA does to wake up sleeping pilots...... #Every time I hear one of those, I think of the old Motorola Quick Call ™ gear. #Same magilla.
Mobat makes nice stuff. #I see they still use Motorola hand mikes from the old Motorola-Mobat Micom days. #Of course, it was lying face down on their table so as not to show the big batwing /\/\.
Bet they don't sell many of those rigs at the 'fests. #If the average ham could afford one of those Maserati rigs, well, sure would be cool. #That is, if there was a convenient way to recharge the battery out in the sticks.
What's the price tab on the "Trooper" as I didn't stop to ask? #Probably a lot more than an Izusu Trooper.
Quote[/b] (n1jbs @ Aug. 18 2007,07:03)]You mean you talked to "if Ed says its ok, then its ok "
Hare from the ARRL? I guess he actually made it in his #"new " truck (at least new to him).
Yep. #I've met Ed before. #Several years ago at a Florida hamfest. #As to Ed's transportation, I didn't inquire.
Whether a person drives a 1979 Toyota or a 2007 Ford GT makes not an iota of difference to me. #Apparently, it does to you.
KQ6XA
08-19-2007, 04:32 PM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,06:06)]More photos of the Huntsville Hamfest and GAREC-2007 (http://hflink.com/garec/).
Mobat exhibit photos click here (http://hflink.com/mobat/)
Nice photos, Bonnie. Isn't ALE, as your site explains it, a form of automatically-controlled digital exchange between two stations to attempt to make the links?
Use of same outside of the digital subbands is not in conformance with Part 97. Sorry about that.
Bet they don't sell many of those rigs at the 'fests. If the average ham could afford one of those Maserati rigs,
What's the price tab on the "Trooper" as I didn't stop to ask? Probably a lot more than an Izusu Trooper.
Hi Lee,
Ham-friendly ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com), as it has been adapted to ham radio, conforms to the amateur radio rules in USA (http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/) (and other countries) for both phone band and data subband operation. ALE has been in active use by hams for many years. There was a presentation about ALE at the GAREC conference in Huntsville (http://hflink.com/garec/).
We had fun visiting with Paul and chatting about the ALE gear at the Mobat booth. Mobat's basic Micom3 transceiver is priced around $4.5k bucks. If you have a gov or MARS discount it is around $3.5k bucks. They are also still selling their lower priced model Micom 2ES. All the Mobat units are full ALE built-in.
Most hams, though, are using desktop or laptop computers attached to their ham rigs for ALE (http://hflink.com), and the ALE software (http://hflink.com/software/)is interoperable with the Mobat transceivers on the air.
.
n1jbs
08-19-2007, 11:29 PM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,09:08)]Quote[/b] (n1jbs @ Aug. 18 2007,07:03)]You mean you talked to "if Ed says its ok, then its ok "
Hare from the ARRL? I guess he actually made it in his #"new " truck (at least new to him).
Yep. #I've met Ed before. #Several years ago at a Florida hamfest. #As to Ed's transportation, I didn't inquire.
Whether a person drives a 1979 Toyota or a 2007 Ford GT makes not an iota of difference to me. #Apparently, it does to you.
Well the guys at the ARRL kind of gave him a hard time when he replaced his truck that was falling apart.
wa6itf
08-20-2007, 07:15 AM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,05:36)]I wanted to meet and talk with Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, but missed running into him.
I was there. In fact I was hard to miss as I spent part of yesterday (Saturday) on the stage making the YHOTY Presentation to Grant Morine, W4GHM. Then I was doing interviews on the convention floor to get exhibitor reaction to the greater than usual crowds. I only walked in the door about 5 minutes ago after 2 hrs on an MD-80 from HSV to Dallas and a 757 from Dallas to L.A. (And for one AA was right on time!!)
My take -- having been to all but one Huntsville Hamfest since 1993, this is the best turnout I have ever seen. And not one negative word from any of the dealers.
B-T-W: According to the sales people I spoke with -- the biggest selling item was anything D-Star related. Thats not at all surprising in that Alabama is literally the nations D-Star capital with more repeaters and individual stations having gone D-Star than the rest of the nation.
Sorry I cant give you more info now, but I need to review my audiotapes. I was planning to do that on the 3 hr. rode from DFW to LAX, but ran into a non ham friend who was on her way out to LA to appear in a stage show.
de
Bill P. / WA6ITF
k4rjj
08-20-2007, 08:00 AM
Quote[/b] (wa6itf @ Aug. 20 2007,00:15)]I was there. In fact I was hard to miss as I spent part of yesterday (Saturday) on the stage making the YHOTY Presentation to Grant Morine, W4GHM. Then I was doing interviews on the convention floor to get exhibitor reaction to the greater than usual crowds.
Bill, I was buying my LDG Z100 from Gigaparts while you were on stage. I got sidetracked again at the QRP booth.
I told Kristeen K1SFA this and I'll tell you... Thanks for helping me get through I-75 traffic with your great reports! If there is no one on the radio I have CDs I make every week.
ARN
ARRL Audio news
Soldersmoke (Cmon back soon M0HBR)
Best hamfest I have been to in YEARS! I'll be back next year and will have a room there this time. Driving back that night was like a Red eye flight!
W3MIV
08-20-2007, 12:53 PM
Quote[/b] (wa6itf @ Aug. 20 2007,03:15)]B-T-W: #According to the sales people I spoke with -- the biggest selling item was anything D-Star related. #Thats not at all surprising in that Alabama is literally the nations D-Star capital with more repeaters and individual stations having gone D-Star than the rest of the nation. #
Hopefully, the gear being bought was for destinations other than Alabama. The more installations there are, the more willing will others be in making the substantial investment to move to D-Star.
wa6itf
08-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 20 2007,05:53)]Quote[/b] (wa6itf @ Aug. 20 2007,03:15)]B-T-W: According to the sales people I spoke with -- the biggest selling item was anything D-Star related. Thats not at all surprising in that Alabama is literally the nations D-Star capital with more repeaters and individual stations having gone D-Star than the rest of the nation.
Hopefully, the gear being bought was for destinations other than Alabama. The more installations there are, the more willing will others be in making the substantial investment to move to D-Star.
The big problem is not getting gear to other places. Icom has loads of it. Rather, its where to use it.
To be effective, D-Star needs repeaters and in most urban areas, the repeater channels are filled with analog FM systems whose owners are not going to invest in conversion to D-Star until there is an established user base. But that user base cannot develop without the repeaters. Kind of a Catch 22 if you will.
The reason that D-Star is so successful in Alabama is that the state has a very cohesive Amateur Radio community with all facets getting together, deciding that emergency communications was the state priority and then deciding to make DC-Star the backbone of that capability.
I cannot imagine that happening here in California or most other highly urbanized regions. In fact, its just the opposite with the repeater owner-operators either ignoring digital repeaters entirely or treating them as a "fad" or "curiosity."
To understand this is easy. If you have $2,000 to say $10,000 invested in an FM repeater, how willing are you going to be to throw it away, invest another $8000+to put up a D-Star or APCO 25 machine in its place? Especially since you might not have many users?
As I said -- Catch 22.
de
WA6ITF
KC0ONR
08-20-2007, 08:03 PM
You can also find photographs of the Huntsville Hamfest at Huntsville Hamfest 2007 (http://mcars.us/HuntsvilleHamfest2007/index.htm)
Just passing along that the Huntsville hamfest is 1st quality!
We really enjoyed it.
Thanks,
David,WI4L http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KI4MXO
08-21-2007, 07:04 AM
great hamfest! i enjoyed it 100%. got my general class book, and a yaesu ft 301d with the original power supply. the radio works great, but the power supply is shot. hhhhmmmmm.... time to start building!
Quote[/b] (KI4MXO @ Aug. 20 2007,01:04)]great hamfest! i enjoyed it 100%. got my general class book, and a yaesu ft 301d with the original power supply. the radio works great, but the power supply is shot. hhhhmmmmm.... time to start building!
Wait. #Don't toss it yet. #Time to repair and rebuild!!!
You'll learn more from going through it and replacing failed components than trying to build something new from scratch.
Grab the schematic diagram and start troubleshooting from there. #Assuming it blows fuses when turned on, start by disconnecting the transformer secondary from the rectifier and if the transformer powers up successfully without blowing fuses, then the most expensive and difficult to replace component is OK. #Crowbar circuits, series pass transistors, capacitors and rectifiers don't have to be exact replacements anyway.
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 18 2007,10:32)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,06:06)]More photos of the Huntsville Hamfest and GAREC-2007 (http://hflink.com/garec/).
Mobat exhibit photos click here (http://hflink.com/mobat/)
Nice photos, Bonnie. #Isn't ALE, as your site explains it, a form of automatically-controlled digital exchange between two stations to attempt to make the links?
Use of same outside of the digital subbands is not in conformance with Part 97. #Sorry about that.
Bet they don't sell many of those rigs at the 'fests. #If the average ham could afford one of those Maserati rigs, #
What's the price tab on the "Trooper" as I didn't stop to ask? #Probably a lot more than an Izusu Trooper.
Hi Lee,
Ham-friendly ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com), as it has been adapted to ham radio, conforms to the amateur radio rules in USA (http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/) (and other countries) for both phone band and data subband operation. ALE has been in active use by hams for many years. There was a presentation about ALE at the GAREC conference in Huntsville (http://hflink.com/garec/).
We had fun visiting with Paul and chatting about the ALE gear at the Mobat booth. Mobat's basic Micom3 transceiver is priced around $4.5k bucks. If you have a gov or MARS discount it is around $3.5k bucks. They are also still selling their lower priced model Micom 2ES. All the Mobat units are full ALE built-in.
Most hams, though, are using desktop or laptop computers attached to their ham rigs for ALE (http://hflink.com), and the ALE software (http://hflink.com/software/)is interoperable with the Mobat transceivers on the air.
.
Bonnie: #Well, I'm quite surprised about the Mobat Trooper price. #Impressive and affordable for someone really looking for a rugged portable. #The real test of portability is how long it can operate and, of course, that depends upon the battery and efficient operation while receiving. #Radios that consume more than about 300mA while receiving aren't efficient.
As to the response about ALE, you're site mixes apples and oranges. #While SELCALL ™ might fit the 97.3 definition of incidental tones since it is clearly comprised of #two-tone groups to open squelch or trigger an alarm, the use of digital bursts, exchanges, and handshaking, etc., clearly do not.
How is such handshaking, connect, disconnect, etc., any different than a Pactor modem doing the same thing? #Oh, but what follows isn't more digital data, but voice. #Well, still, all of that does NOT fit FCC 97.3, only incidental tones like what SELCALL ™ produces would. #And, ALE using digital bursts is a form of automatic operation, whereas an operator sending a SELCALL™, well, hmmm.
You'd still have to identify your station, Bonnie, even after or before a SELCALL™ or the digital data handshaking. #That would have to be done in a FCC-defined specified mode decipherable by the multitudes. #My suspicion is that isn't being done, for obvious reasons.
Quote[/b] (wa6itf @ Aug. 19 2007,01:15)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,05:36)]I wanted to meet and talk with Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, but missed running into him.
I was there. #In fact I was hard to miss as I spent part of yesterday (Saturday) on the stage making the YHOTY Presentation to Grant Morine, W4GHM. #Then I was doing interviews on the convention floor to get exhibitor reaction to the greater than usual crowds. I only walked in the door about 5 minutes ago after 2 hrs on an MD-80 from HSV to Dallas and a 757 from Dallas to L.A. #(And for one AA was right on time!!)
My take -- having been to all but one Huntsville Hamfest since 1993, this is the best turnout I have ever seen. #And not one negative word from any of the dealers.
B-T-W: #According to the sales people I spoke with -- the biggest selling item was anything D-Star related. #Thats not at all surprising in that Alabama is literally the nations D-Star capital with more repeaters and individual stations having gone D-Star than the rest of the nation. #
Sorry I cant give you more info now, but I need to review my audiotapes. #I was planning to do that on the 3 hr. rode from DFW to LAX, but ran into a non ham friend who was on her way out to LA to appear in a stage show. #
de
Bill P. / WA6ITF
Bill: My fault, not yours!! I heard you being paged about 10:00 Saturday, and should have made my way back to the stage area. I wanted to talk more about honoring Don Herbert. Anyway, email will probably work.
I was lost in "the sea" of people and focused on filling my want-list of parts and pieces. Guess I'll make more of a point to locate you next year, if you plan on a repeat visit. Or, if I muster up the courage to attend Dayton. It's tough being 600 miles from Dayton and 600 miles from Orlando. Choosing between the Dayton Hamfest and the Hamcation Event is a tough one...... I know the road to the Orlando 'fest well and in February, I can use a little warm weather and a spot of Cuban cuisine.
See you next year.
73,
KQ6XA
08-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 21 2007,05:49)]You'd still have to identify your station, Bonnie, even after or before a SELCALL™ or the digital data handshaking. That would have to be done in a FCC-defined specified mode decipherable by the multitudes.
Lee,
Ham radio ALE uses plain language, ordinary ham callsigns for selective calling. For example, the typical ALE selcall transmission would transmit a signal saying "W6EM this is KQ6XA" if I were to call you.
Since it already uses callsigns for identifying the stations, there is zero need for separate ID by some other method. ALE (http://hflink.com) has been used in an organized way by hams on HF for at least 7 years. You can download ALE software free (http://hflink.com/software)to participate in it (or monitor) if you like.
Please read the ALE reference material about FCC rules (http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/). Just click on the blue text underlined. That takes you to a web site that provides answers to your questions and should clear up any misconceptions you may still have regarding rules and regulations.
73 Bonnie
W1RFI
08-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Quote[/b] (n1jbs @ Aug. 18 2007,07:03)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 19 2007,08:36)]Great hamfest!! #Lots of good stuff. #CQ VHF editor Joe Lynch and I had a good time talking about history. #Their table sure had better deals than ARRL's.
The Ham Radio magazine anthologies are great. #Bought the whole set. #A great collection and a great hamfest price.
I talked with Ed Hare and Dave Sumner of ARRL and Martin Jue, owner of MFJ for a few minutes as well. #I wanted to meet and talk with Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, but missed running into him.
Lots of parts and pieces dealers. #Kinda like a subset of what Halted, Haltek, Weirdstuff, and RA Enterprises used to be like in Silicon Valley. #That stuff I miss having around whenever I needed a part.
Of course, only one is still in business in Silicon Valley. #I guess they have stores like those in Silicon China or Silicon India.
I left the 'fest somewhat encouraged to see maybe 25 or so young folks there. #Under 20 or so. #That was great to see as at least there still are young people getting ham tickets. #Had one come up to me and write my call and name. #As Dave Sumner said, ARRL had a youth contest, not unlike their passport one, to get all call districts at the hamfest. #A cool idea....
Only 'needs improvement' was the parking. #I had to pay $5 to park in the basement of the center. #There used to be a bridge across the dry creek behind the center where many could park for free. #With a 7 foot 6 #inch limit, many with even 5/8 roof mounts had to take them off, let alone HF whips. #But, I probably could have found something down the block a ways.....
73,
You mean you talked to "if Ed says its ok, then its ok "
Hare from the ARRL? I guess he actually made it in his #"new " truck (at least new to him).
Quote[/b] ]You mean you talked to "if Ed says its ok, then its ok " Hare from the ARRL? I guess he actually made it in his #"new " truck (at least new to him).
Actually, I flew to Huntsville and took the hotel shuttle.
You may have been referring to the old truck I used to drive, lovingly deemed the "Deathmobile" by one of the QRP editors after he had to ride in it. #I had a lot of fun keeping the old thing running, but it was getting to be too much of a time sink, so I retired it. #It needed a new floor, new bed, new door rocker panels, a new motor, new transmission and new rear axle. #Other than that, it was okay. :-)
I am not sure what you are referring to with the "Ed says it's okay" observation. #Do we really want to know? :-)
73,
Ed, W1RFI
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 20 2007,09:42)]Please read the ALE reference material about FCC rules (http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/). Just click on the blue text underlined. That takes you to a web site that provides answers to your questions and should clear up any misconceptions you may still have regarding rules and regulations.
73 Bonnie
I did, Bonnie, before I wrote the previous note.
SelCall™ fits since it is akin to tone burst or CTCSS tones used to unsquelch receivers. Digital handshaking, "connects" and "disconnects" are digital communications between automated stations, Bonnie. Part 97 reference to "incidental tones" would fit SelCall™, but not the rest. Keep digital automatica where it belongs, please. In the automatic digital subbands.
Ah, but of course MARS, SHARES, etc., can use it outside the ham bands to their heart's delight. Don't forget to make sure your radios are NTIA compliant with ultraprecise/stable frequency control. Unless, of course, Congress passes your Bill to allow the drifters to join in......LOL
KQ6XA
08-24-2007, 06:00 AM
Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 23 2007,13:38)]SelCall™ fits since it is akin to tone burst or CTCSS tones used to unsquelch receivers. Digital handshaking, "connects" and "disconnects" are digital communications...
Sorry, Lee, but that kind of thinking is soooo mid-20th century. We've moved on, it's 2007 now http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Selective calling for SSB voice (including ALE (http://hflink.com/automaticlinkestablishment)) on HF ham radio is almost entirely FSK or 8FSK bursts. Any callsign or group of callsigns can be directly called up on HF at any time of the day or night.
It works great. Get used to it. It's not going away.
The ham radio ALE net operates 24/7/365. It currently covers all of North America, and it is actively expanding to the rest of the world. What other HF net can you point to with that kind of sked?
Hams developed "Ham-Friendly ALE" and have been using it in an organized way for about 6 years now, without any problems on the air. It does a lot of good things for HF communications that you won't find otherwise.
ALE is available built-in to transceivers by every major HF transceiver manufacturer: Icom, Kenwood, Vertex-Standard, Harris, Mobat(Micom), R&S, Codan, etc. etc.
Many hams are using PCALE (http://hflink.com/pcale)software or Multipsk (http://hflink.com/software) software for ALE with good success.
See: information about ham radio ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com) for more details.
73
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 23 2007,00:00)]Quote[/b] (w6em @ Aug. 23 2007,13:38)]SelCall™ fits since it is akin to tone burst or CTCSS tones used to unsquelch receivers. #Digital handshaking, "connects" and "disconnects" are digital communications...
Sorry, Lee, but that kind of thinking is soooo mid-20th century. We've moved on, it's 2007 now. Selective calling for SSB voice (including ALE) on HF ham radio is almost entirely FSK or 8FSK bursts. It works great. Get used to it. It's not going away.
Bonnie, if SelCall™ is so dated, then why is the FAA still insisting on its use with commercial and military air traffic in lieu of your method of digital bursts? Perhaps SelCall™ is less immune to multipath distortion and more dependable. Failing to wake up a sleeping airline crew could have disastrous consequences. Failing to wake up a ham is of little consequence. :-)
Be careful how you move on. Especially in skirting regulations.
Yes, but do move on. Either outside the ham bands or to the automatic sub bands where you belong.
WA5BEN
08-25-2007, 01:34 AM
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 19 2007,09:32)]Ham-friendly ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com), as it has been adapted to ham radio, conforms to the amateur radio rules in USA (http://hflink.com/alehamradiousa/) (and other countries) for both phone band and data subband operation. ALE has been in active use by hams for many years. There was a presentation about ALE at the GAREC conference in Huntsville (http://hflink.com/garec/).
We had fun visiting with Paul and chatting about the ALE gear at the Mobat booth. Mobat's basic Micom3 transceiver is priced around $4.5k bucks. If you have a gov or MARS discount it is around $3.5k bucks. They are also still selling their lower priced model Micom 2ES. All the Mobat units are full ALE built-in.
Most hams, though, are using desktop or laptop computers attached to their ham rigs for ALE (http://hflink.com), and the ALE software (http://hflink.com/software/)is interoperable with the Mobat transceivers on the air.
.
Bonnie, My issues with ALE are:
1. that it provides no communication advantage over plain voice for a voice QSO
2. that it provides no communication advantage for a data QSO
3. that it requires dedicated channels to function
4. that it affords absolutely no advantage for EMCOMM networks
5. that it requires added equipment for voice use
All in all, ALE is a "solution" looking for a problem. Even for the State of Texas system using FEMA frequencies, the limited number of channels and the channel restrictions made ALE nothing more than an expensive toy. We were able to operate quite successfully using NON-TECHNICAL OPERATORS without ALE.
In actual practice, we can establish communication, pass traffic, and be off the channel by the time the ALE sets up.
ALE was designed for military services with far-reaching networks of stations that will be available on vastly different frequencies. For a government maintaining communications with hundreds of sites / platforms and using several dozen sets of frequencies spaced out from 2 to 28 MHz, an ALE system has merit.
ALE in the amateur bands is unnecessary and unwarranted. Proper use of propagation tools easily reveals the band or two that CAN work. Even without the tools, a simple equation gives the MUF for a path with very good accuracy. The only really varying input is Critical Frequency. Beyond that, simple knowledge of time of day, desired distance, and approximate SSN tells you which band or two should work.
The logic is literally so simple that I trained non-technical police radio operators to do it -- without any software tools !
In EMCOMM, we have two "normal" bands (40 and 80), one "maybe" band (60), and one low SSN - short distance band (160). In extremely high SSN, we MAY have 30 meters on some paths. Why do I need ALE to tell me that 40 is or is not open?
If I need to send / receive an alert, all I need is something that broadcasts a tone and a simple tone decoder -- both of which can be built for under $10.00, or a simple FSK encoder/decoder with SELCALL. The problem is that I really can't find a good reason why I would need an alert on the ham bands.
KQ6XA
08-28-2007, 07:43 PM
Quote[/b] (WA5BEN @ Aug. 24 2007,18:34)]My issues with ALE are [etc.]
ALE in the amateur bands is unnecessary [etc.]
Proper use of propagation tools easily reveals the band [etc.]
Well, whether you have "personal issues" or not about ALE, it is here to stay. Your experience is obviously not with ham radio ALE. You would be well-advised to research the topic a little more.
The ham radio ALE net operates 24/7/365. It currently covers all of North America, and it is actively expanding to the rest of the world. What other HF net can you point to with that kind of sked?
Hams have developed "Ham-Friendly ALE", and have already been using it in an organized way for about 6 years now, without any problems. It does a lot of good things for HF communications that you won't find otherwise.
ALE is available built-in to transceivers by every major HF transceiver manufacturer: Icom, Kenwood, Vertex-Standard, Harris, Mobat(Micom), R&S, Codan, etc. etc.
Many hams are using PCALE (http://hflink.com/pcale)software or Multipsk (http://hflink.com/software) software for ALE with good success.
See: information about ham radio ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com) for more details.
73
WA5BEN
08-29-2007, 02:29 AM
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 28 2007,12:43)]Quote[/b] (WA5BEN @ Aug. 24 2007,18:34)]My issues with ALE are [etc.]
ALE in the amateur bands is unnecessary [etc.]
Proper use of propagation tools easily reveals the band [etc.]
Well, whether you have "personal issues" or not about ALE, it is here to stay. Your experience is obviously not with ham radio ALE. You would be well-advised to research the topic a little more.
The ham radio ALE net operates 24/7/365. It currently covers all of North America, and it is actively expanding to the rest of the world. What other HF net can you point to with that kind of sked?
Hams have developed "Ham-Friendly ALE", and have already been using it in an organized way for about 6 years now, without any problems. It does a lot of good things for HF communications that you won't find otherwise.
ALE is available built-in to transceivers by every major HF transceiver manufacturer: Icom, Kenwood, Vertex-Standard, Harris, Mobat(Micom), R&S, Codan, etc. etc.
Many hams are using PCALE (http://hflink.com/pcale)software or Multipsk (http://hflink.com/software) software for ALE with good success.
See: information about ham radio ALE Automatic Link Establishment (http://hflink.com) for more details.
73
I have seen all of the hype, Bonnie. What I have not seen is the problem in amateur radio that ALE is supposed to solve -- most especially for EMCOMM. I am an engineer, system designer, product specifier, and product developer with worldwide field experience. I have extensive HF experience with military and civilian operations in and for many nations on five continents.
I evaluate proposed systems, products, and/or features based upon cost versus benefit, positive mission impact, improved reliability, user friendliness, and other variables that are critical to a specific set of requirements. In military and government environments with large frequency "catalogs" and widely dispersed sites and/or platforms, ALE is absolutely the answer.
In the limited sets of amateur bands, ALE is simply NOT an answer to any identifiable problem. It is, like CW, simply another mode that -- despite obvious shortcomings -- some people choose to use.
I have no problem with the fact that some want to play with ALE. The issue arises when those people want to pretend a) that ALE actually solves a problem, or b) that ALE is somehow useful (as in brings an improvement) for EMCOMM in an environment with limited frequency choices. The plain, simple truth is that it does neither.
KQ6XA
08-29-2007, 10:34 PM
Quote[/b] (WA5BEN @ Aug. 28 2007,19:29)]"I have extensive HF experience with military and civilian operations in and for many nations on five continents."
Dear WA5BEN,
Your experience is wonderful. But, clearly, it seems like you are not familiar with the way ALE is being used in ham radio. Perhaps you have no desire to, but you may find a refreshing difference with ALE among hams. The thousands of enthusiastic hams who have ALE would certainly welcome linking up with you on the air. Perhaps you could bring the depth of your experiences with you, and apply it to ham radio ALE.
There is a big difference between ham radio ALE, and the mil or commercial ALE systems that deploy it mainly to reduce the need for operators. Hams instead, use ALE (http://hflink.com) as a force multiplier for skilled radio operators.
http://www.hflink.com/garec/ALE_the_operator_force_multiplier.jpg
A ham operator with one radio, can use ALE for 5 or 10 ham bands and nets simultaneously. No need for skeds. No need for the mass frenzy among voice nets when the 75 meter band suddenly dies due to a solar flare during a disaster, such as what happened during Katrina. But, those with ALE were able to maintain communication without a hiccup on HF during that flare.
The ham radio ALE HF Network (http://hflink.com/hfn/) is currently on the air 24/7 and available for HF soundcard SMS/email/phone texting and messaging. It also can be used for short internet texting with HF transceivers that have built-in ALE. Direct from the front panel display and keypad. There is nothing else out there that can do this.
Ham radio ALE provides a practical way for all the different emcomm communicators at every level to use HF for 24/7 interoperative voice or messaging communications. That is a valuable thing, and it is otherwise not available from other systems.
WA5BEN
09-01-2007, 02:59 AM
Quote[/b] (KQ6XA @ Aug. 29 2007,15:34)]Quote[/b] (WA5BEN @ Aug. 28 2007,19:29)]"I have extensive HF experience with military and civilian operations in and for many nations on five continents."
Dear WA5BEN,
Your experience is wonderful. But, clearly, it seems like you are not familiar with the way ALE is being used in ham radio. Perhaps you have no desire to, but you may find a refreshing difference with ALE among hams. The thousands of enthusiastic hams who have ALE would certainly welcome linking up with you on the air. Perhaps you could bring the depth of your experiences with you, and apply it to ham radio ALE.
There is a big difference between ham radio ALE, and the mil or commercial ALE systems that deploy it mainly to reduce the need for operators. Hams instead, use ALE (http://hflink.com) as a force multiplier for skilled radio operators.
http://www.hflink.com/garec/ALE_the_operator_force_multiplier.jpg
A ham operator with one radio, can use ALE for 5 or 10 ham bands and nets simultaneously. No need for skeds. No need for the mass frenzy among voice nets when the 75 meter band suddenly dies due to a solar flare during a disaster, such as what happened during Katrina. But, those with ALE were able to maintain communication without a hiccup on HF during that flare.
The ham radio ALE HF Network (http://hflink.com/hfn/) is currently on the air 24/7 and available for HF soundcard SMS/email/phone texting and messaging. It also can be used for short internet texting with HF transceivers that have built-in ALE. Direct from the front panel display and keypad. There is nothing else out there that can do this.
Ham radio ALE provides a practical way for all the different emcomm communicators at every level to use HF for 24/7 interoperative voice or messaging communications. That is a valuable thing, and it is otherwise not available from other systems.
Just to clarify, Bonnie, we were not on 75 meters when the flare hit. We were on 40. Following standard practice, we were able to go to higher HF bands and maintain communication, and of course we never lost our 146 MHz link to the LA EOC. (That's about 81 miles, as the crow flies.)
BTW: The outage lasted less than 2 hours on 40, and actually helped short-range HF.