View Full Version : CB and Echolink
This station showed up on our local node's connect list a few days ago. We looked into it a little further and found:
W2CBR-L 27.185 Am NYC AREA ON 13:02 330958
It now shows up as "private", but be careful who you connect to, because I'm sure this isn't legal.
KL7FZ
03-02-2007, 09:28 AM
We now lump all the internet linked stuff (irlp, echolink, winlink, etc) into one group known as Lid-Link or Lid-Net.
Local repeater node here is linked into that incredibly stupid trivia net in the evenings. Amazing that all the time, money, invention, technology invested for over more than 100 years was spent so these bozos can play trivia games.
What a waste! The absolute worst use of ham radio I have ever seen.
They have taken what could have been an incredible teaching and learning tool and wasted it.
Stupid people. Definately Lid-Net stuff!
KL7FZ
A dollar to a doughnut sez, if someone informed the Echolink folk of this W2CBR-L would vanish forever. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
ka5piu
03-02-2007, 11:15 AM
Hello.
Do not look now, but.
Not only CB, but GMRS is on Echolink.
IRLP, likewise, has a few of the same.
In the middle east, any form of VoIP is against the law.
The other thing I find odd is that Echolink says that a person is to use only one callsign, even if there is another callsign issued.
Now, in Saudi Arabia, use of anything but an approved callsign is a felony, even for things like VoIP.
This is also how they ban telephone VoIP, your Saudi Telephone Company issued phone number is your "callsign", the same as is done in the rest of the world for cellular radiotelephone.
So, never mind the fact that the Echolink policy is in direct conflict with ITU regulations that state a person who is licenced in a country must use that callsign.
The FCC rules, part 97.107 apply in the US, say the same thing.
N5PVL
03-02-2007, 11:40 AM
I can see where a marraige between CB and EchoLink would be a real natural.
It's quite legal to do so, by the way. - You can hook just about anything up to the internet.
Not long after Packet/internet gateways started appearing, I heard about the first CB Packet activity in Europe. - It got so popular there that F6FBB changed his BBS software around so that it would accept non-ham CB "callsigns".
There is really not that much difference between the "CB" mentality and the "Ham Radio over the internet" mentality, when you get right down to it. - They are made for each other.
In fact, all of the "radio over the Internet" activity really should be on citizen's band and the family radio service. - It has not worked out well for ham radio, but we can still feel good about developing the technology and the software for others.
n9lya
03-02-2007, 11:45 AM
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Mar. 01 2007,21:45)]A dollar to a doughnut sez, if someone informed the Echolink folk of this W2CBR-L would vanish forever. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I doubt they care... Or they would have stopped it already.
n9lya
03-02-2007, 11:47 AM
Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 01 2007,23:40)]I can see where a marraige between CB and EchoLink would be a real natural.
It's quite legal to do so, by the way. - You can hook just about anything up to the internet.
I've always said it was a joke that you need a licnese to use echolink. Now I have been proven right...
Quote[/b] ]Amazing that all the time, money, invention, technology over the last better than 100 years was spent so these bozos can play trivia games.
What a waste! The absolute worst use of ham radio I have ever seen.
Back before video games, hams used to play chess on the air.
ve2nsm
03-02-2007, 03:11 PM
You really think CBers and freebanders waited to have their ticket to use VOIP?
Try E-QSO (http://www.eqso27mhz.com/index3.htm). It's a server based in spain and there are links all over the world connected to the network. One thing they seem to do better than echolink is that they don't allow PC to PC connexion, the networks is only made of gateways, so you HAVE to have a radio http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
They have to work on their website though because it's a real PITA. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
K7JEM
03-02-2007, 03:31 PM
Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Mar. 02 2007,04:47)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 01 2007,23:40)]I can see where a marraige between CB and EchoLink would be a real natural.
It's quite legal to do so, by the way. - You can hook just about anything up to the internet.
I've always said it was a joke that you need a licnese to use echolink. Now I have been proven right...
Probably not legal, unless they have obtained FCC approval:
§ 95.419 (CB Rule 19) May I operate my
CB station transmitter by remote
control?
(a) You may not operate a CB station
transmitter by radio remote control.
(b) You may operate a CB transmitter
by wireline remote control if
you obtain specific approval in writing
from the FCC. To obtain FCC approval,
you must show why you need to operate
your station by wireline remote
control. If you receive FCC approval,
you must keep the approval as part of
your station records. See CB Rule 27,
§ 95.427.
© Remote control means operation
of a CB transmitter from any place
other than the location of the CB
transmitter. Direct mechanical control
or direct electrical control by wire
from some point on the same premises,
craft or vehicle as the CB transmitter
is not considered remote control.
N5PVL
03-02-2007, 04:14 PM
JEM:
The section of PART95 you quoted applies to remote rig control.
kc7mrq
03-02-2007, 05:12 PM
Just because the station listed that frequency doesn't mean he actually doing it. I'll get in on the donut bet and say that the station entered the information on echolink just so someone QRZ starts a thread to complain.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 02 2007,11:14)]JEM:
The section of PART95 you quoted applies to remote rig control.
Isn't that essentially what Echolink is?
WA2ZDY
03-02-2007, 05:23 PM
Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Mar. 02 2007,04:28)]Local repeater node here is linked into that incredibly stupid trivia net in the evenings. Amazing that all the time, money, invention, technology invested for over more than 100 years was spent so these bozos can play trivia games.
What a waste! The absolute worst use of ham radio I have ever seen.
What limits would you suggest on content? #Rig, weather and QSL info only? # How many are complaining about quickie meaningless contacts and you suggest that's how it should be? Your contacts must be dull indeed.
My wife's main objection to the radio is "you never talk about anything." # This trivia net you describe sounds like a fun bunch making the most of it. # That's better than unused bands being sold to the cell phone industry.
Quote[/b] ]JEM:
The section of PART95 you quoted applies to remote rig control. Isn't that what controlling the CB via the net be?
VE1IDX
03-02-2007, 05:29 PM
W2CBR? OK honestly now, how many of you would jump at the chance to get a vanity call like W2CBR (CB'er)? Honestly now,speak up. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
K7JEM
03-02-2007, 05:33 PM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Mar. 02 2007,10:15)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 02 2007,11:14)]JEM:
The section of PART95 you quoted applies to remote rig control.
Isn't that essentially what Echolink is?
Thats exactly what it is. When you control a transmitter remotely, it is "remote control", and it is prohibited by this CB rule, unless you get special FCC authorization.
I don't think the FCC would grant it in this case.
Remote control is authorized for HR.
Joe
N4AUD
03-02-2007, 05:43 PM
There has already been a CB radio that you could operate via the internet. There was a bid to-do about it here on QRZ a while back.
wd4jzo
03-02-2007, 06:10 PM
W2CBR appears to be a tech license in NY.
WA2ZDY
03-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Yello,radio? This is Whiskey two citizens' band radio, over?
Hell yes that's a great call!
I have to comment that 4 of the top 10 subjects on this forum are "CB" related. Wonder why all the interest by supposed Amateur Radio operators in CB? No code licensing?
LOLOL!
ve2nsm
03-02-2007, 09:10 PM
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Mar. 02 2007,16:55)]I have to comment that 4 of the top 10 subjects on this forum are "CB" related. Wonder why all the interest by supposed Amateur Radio operators in CB? No code licensing?
LOLOL!
Well, since I remember QRZ dot com (look at the date left of my post) it's ALWAYS been like that.
Quote[/b] ]I have to comment that 4 of the top 10 subjects on this forum are "CB" related. #Wonder why all the interest by supposed Amateur Radio operators in CB? #No code licensing?
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing.
Seems to be a lot of CB this, and CB that going on, on an Ham Radio message board. I don't ever remember seeing this much "CB chatter" here but haven't been here that long.
Personally, I'd dump 'em.
k7dlx
03-03-2007, 04:59 PM
Quite honestly, folks, I would have my doubts that the REAL W2CBR is behind this node. More likely, some yay-hoo simply registered under that call because it sounded good and then set the link up.
A lot of Tech licenses haven't touched a radio or had anything to do with ham radio for years.
Case in point, my old boss had a Tech license, didn't even own a radio. Got a letter from Riley saying he was heard on 20 meters talking - wanted explanation. He called Riley, told him he didn't even own any 20 meter equipment, case was closed, it was a bootlegger grabbing calls out of QRZ - bootlegger was DFed and found about 6 months later. QSL cards were found showing he had used over 80 callsigns in less than a year.
Don't be so hard on CBR yet - it's very possibly not him.
KL7FZ
03-06-2007, 12:34 PM
Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Mar. 02 2007,10:23)]What limits would you suggest on content? #Rig, weather and QSL info only? # How many are complaining about quickie meaningless contacts and you suggest that's how it should be? # Your contacts must be dull indeed.
OK. Where did I suggest talking about any of these subjects or making "Quickie" QSOs??? I am looking for substance in a QSO. I want to talk about RADIO. Geez! How novel is that?? Huh? I try all I can to inform and get others interested in the more esoteric and exotic modes of ham radio. ATV, microwave, some digital. (all of which I can operate and have capability but no one to work) If you were here locally you would often hear me admonish the locals for being dull and boring on the local bands/nets. I try conversation starters. I try to bring up subjects of antennas, amps, etc but more often or not, am met with dead air or even deader brains.
I get so tired of hearing what the darn weather is. All the locals know I will NOT discuss weather on the bands. As I have told them before, it will have to 100 degrees above in the winter or 40 below in the summer in Alaska (could happen!) before I will even acknowledge comments about the weather.
#Tell me about your plans for your station or equipment. Discuss what someone else is doing in ham radio that is interesting. BUT DON"T BORE ME TO DEATH WITH TRIVIA unrelated to electronics or the hobby.
I am in ham radio for an interest in radio and electronics. Plain and simple.
#But I just can't get the local interested in a 2.4 ghz repeater! No matter how hard I try.
KL7FZ
k5xit
03-08-2007, 04:35 PM
Quote[/b] (n2zn @ Mar. 01 2007,21:52)]This station showed up on our local node's connect list a few days ago. #We looked into it a little further and found:
W2CBR-L 27.185 Am NYC AREA ON 13:02 330958
It now shows up as "private", but be careful who you connect to, because I'm sure this isn't legal.
Why would anyone consider echo link a 2 way contact? Just try and get dxcc credit.
w3bny
03-08-2007, 11:33 PM
Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Mar. 02 2007,02:28)]We now lump all the internet linked stuff (irlp, echolink, winlink, etc) into one group known as Lid-Link or Lid-Net.
Local repeater node here is linked into that incredibly stupid trivia net in the evenings. Amazing that all the time, money, invention, technology invested for over more than 100 years was spent so these bozos can play trivia games.
What a waste! The absolute worst use of ham radio I have ever seen.
They have taken what could have been an incredible teaching and learning tool and wasted it.
Stupid people. Definately Lid-Net stuff!
KL7FZ
Ok so if the bozos didnt play trivia games what activity would you have... probably zilch! So your getting pissed off because they are using the system? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
First they complain that they put the stupid thing in and no one uses it then they complain because they use it. sheez.. just goes to show ya.... ya just cant please everyone.
AB8RU
03-09-2007, 12:12 AM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Mar. 02 2007,15:15)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 02 2007,11:14)]JEM:
The section of PART95 you quoted applies to remote rig control.
Isn't that essentially what Echolink is?
No different to look at your cell phone using VOIP technology to either wire line communications or that Push to Blab feature only difference the cell carrier has a FCC license . CB mainly you cannot use any type of VOIP IRLP device because the Original form of the service was Point A to Point B on the Air at 150 KM or Miles at 4 Watts AM, and the Operator has to be there technically to control the emissions of the Transmitter regardless and must be there to terminate trasmission if a malfunction occours , DTMF logically would have problems at mobile access and I have not heard of any AM DTMF expirments that efficently operates control or even bringing up a phone patch.
KB2SFH
03-11-2007, 04:08 PM
Quote[/b] (k7dlx @ Mar. 03 2007,12:59)]Case in point, my old boss had a Tech license, didn't even own a radio. Got a letter from Riley saying he was heard on 20 meters talking - wanted explanation.
If Riley had any common sense, he would have sent his hounds to pinpoint where the transmissions were coming from and found they didn't match the address of the call being used and he would have dealt with the bootlegger right from the start instead of harrassing an innocent ham. Seems someone let his authority go to his head at the FCC.
N2OBS
08-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Just courious what is going on in the world of voice over ip. Have read recently some articles about the use of echolink and most of them are positive. Having an echolink node since 2003 enjoyed the hobby since obtaining an amateur license. But i must say that thru my many reads of the groups dealing with ham radio. That there are some that are crossing the line of speaking their mind into a dangerous area. We now have hams that being disrespectful to each other and not talking about their problems in person or over the telephone but using the public airwaves to air dirty laundry. Amateur radio has over the years evolved, many modes of communications to pick & choose from but since the code requirements have dropped so has some of the qualities of the average ham operator. I have heard so many hams put down citizen band, bad radio operators, language, etc but i have said many times before what's wrong with cb isn't the band itself but the people behind the microphone and not the frequency currently being listened to when forming an option. I love and enjoy amateur radio since i was licensed in october 8, 1991 but i refuse to give up like hearing some people have because of certain requirements. First and foremost should be the respect of each person toward each other and it makes me sad to listen at one person putting down another person because he/she doesn't have an interest in perticular modes of operations in the communications given to us when we obtained our license. Hearing locals saying they don't want the ham bands turning into citizen band looking at the entire picture brings me to this viewpoint. It has already started turning, alot of ham radio operators who were once citzen band operators bring their attitudes, characters onto amateur radio spectrum and in some portions are accepted as the norm. We can all enjoy amateur radio, citizen band radio and entire radio spectrum without being disrespectful toward another licensed ham radio operator but have the enough respect for others out there who have distance themselves because of their witnessing it. Personally i feel that accountability is not as important as using the ham radio airwaves for complaining, airing dirty laundry, anything that doesn't promote amateur radio but lower its standards.
K4KWH
08-03-2007, 03:07 AM
Quote[/b] (VE1IDX @ Mar. 02 2007,10:29)]W2CBR? OK honestly now, how many of you would jump at the chance to get a vanity call like W2CBR (CB'er)? Honestly now,speak up. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Alge? #And "Stone Age Dr"? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # Something sounds fishy to me. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif #Is this guy for REAL? Sad. #You can take a chicken bander out of the chicken band, but you can't take the chicken band out of the chicken bander! #Cluck Cluck! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #Sorry if I don't believe this is a real person.
(but I've been wrong before)
73
KG6YTZ
08-03-2007, 09:32 AM
Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Aug. 02 2007,20:07)]Alge? #And "Stone Age Dr"? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # Something sounds fishy to me. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
The street is a typo.
On a hunch, I Google-Mapped 57 Stone, after finding no trace of "57 Stone Age" via Google, MapQuest, nor even the USPS. #There is indeed a Stone Ave. in Elmwood Park, NJ, ZIP code 07407. #The address was found. #The cross-street is Herman.
It also appears that, conveniently, this address is almost directly adjacent to a freeway, an expressway, or a whatever-the-heck-it-is-way, I-46 or Rte. 46 or whatever-the-heck-it-is 46. #I won't make any accusations, but I assume this would be a prime location from which to annoy truckers on ch.19 if one chose to do so.
I will believe the "Alge" surname. #I have, in my music collection, at least one album - if not more - either produced or engineered by a "Tom Lord-Alge," so I have heard of it before. [Google the name "Tom Lord-Alge." Many, many matches. Well-known in the music business.]
At any rate, the street name is just a typo and the surname is probably just an uncommon one, but yes, other things are fishy here. And W2CBR needs to correct his info in the ULS.
N8CPA
08-03-2007, 11:46 AM
I confess. I could not resist the temptation to check at AE7Q. I saw the other vanity calls he tried to get.
Now, I have a question for the real OT's. Is there now, or has there ever been a Morse character for "OH 5#%7" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
VO1GXG
08-03-2007, 12:27 PM
Echolink is a wounderful tool . but CB is a waste of ionosphere
N5PVL
08-03-2007, 12:59 PM
N2OBS ponders:
Quote[/b] ]
Just courious what is going on in the world of voice over ip.
On the internet, VOIP use naturally climbed as more customers obtained wideband access, but now VOIP is rapidly being overshadowed by online video. - It is now on its way to becoming obsolete, and we can expect its use to fall as more internet customers obtain broadband access.
In amateur radio, the only VOIP activity that I am aware of is in Europe, where they have a highly advanced and organized amateur packet radio network. The last I heard, access speed there is standardized at 19.2kb, while backbone links typcally operate at 78.2kb full-duplex. One of the most popular software packages for users of the European net, Flex32, comes with a AX25 VOP ( Voice Over Packet ) program called "FlexTalk". The IP enthusiasts there engage in the only widespread, everyday use of VOIP technology over amateur radio on record.
We could have had a digital network to match or better the European network here in the US, but instead we allowed unregulated gateway use and this totally undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States.
The various Lid-Link ( or Lid-Net ) systems like EchoLink do not utilize VOIP over amateur radio. - They utilize VOIP over the internet, with amateur radio being reduced to a parasitic relationship with the internet, taking up bandwidth and presenting a load while contributing absolutely nothing to the global internet community, in return.
One weird note about all this is the way the European amateur radio digital enthusiasts were protected from the chilling effect of unregulated gateways, but the CB community there was not. A decade or so ago, there was a surge of CB Packet activity there, with gateways linking the BBS stations around the world and CB radio providing access. - I haven't heard anything about European CB Packet since then, so I can't report on its following success or failure.
W3MIV
08-03-2007, 01:29 PM
Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,08:59)]We could have had a digital network to match or better the European network here in the US, but instead we allowed unregulated gateway use and this totally undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States.
How has this "unregulated gateway use... undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States?"
Please explain.
N5PVL
08-03-2007, 01:36 PM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 03 2007,08:29)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,08:59)]We could have had a digital network to match or better the European network here in the US, but instead we allowed unregulated gateway use and this totally undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States.
How has this "unregulated gateway use... undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States?"
Please explain.
That was covered very well in the "The Problem with Digital Ham Radio" topic, which I assume you have read since you posted there a few times.
Am I to take from this question that you did not read and understand the posts you were responding to, there?
Troll off.
KI4NGN
08-03-2007, 01:42 PM
Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Mar. 06 2007,05:34)]Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Mar. 02 2007,10:23)]What limits would you suggest on content? #Rig, weather and QSL info only? # How many are complaining about quickie meaningless contacts and you suggest that's how it should be? # Your contacts must be dull indeed.
OK. Where did I suggest talking about any of these subjects or making "Quickie" QSOs??? I am looking for substance in a QSO. I want to talk about RADIO. Geez! How novel is that?? Huh? I try all I can to inform and get others interested in the more esoteric and exotic modes of ham radio. ATV, microwave, some digital. (all of which I can operate and have capability but no one to work) If you were here locally you would often hear me admonish the locals for being dull and boring on the local bands/nets. I try conversation starters. I try to bring up subjects of antennas, amps, etc but more often or not, am met with dead air or even deader brains.
I get so tired of hearing what the darn weather is. All the locals know I will NOT discuss weather on the bands. As I have told them before, it will have to 100 degrees above in the winter or 40 below in the summer in Alaska (could happen!) before I will even acknowledge comments about the weather.
#Tell me about your plans for your station or equipment. Discuss what someone else is doing in ham radio that is interesting. BUT DON"T BORE ME TO DEATH WITH TRIVIA unrelated to electronics or the hobby.
I am in ham radio for an interest in radio and electronics. Plain and simple.
#But I just can't get the local interested in a 2.4 ghz repeater! No matter how hard I try.
KL7FZ
Yep ZDY, another "QSO content should only be what I'm interested in." comment.
Dude, if you want to talk about radio, then find someone who wants to talk about radio! I also think that trivia game over the air sounds fun!
You admonish locals about their dull and boring conversations??? I would tell you to pound sand where the sun doesn't shine if I was them! You don't like the content of a QSO, then stop listening! QSY or go do something else. Do you think that everyone got their ticket to give you something interesting to listen to??
Jeez!
W3MIV
08-03-2007, 01:53 PM
Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,09:36)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 03 2007,08:29)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,08:59)]We could have had a digital network to match or better the European network here in the US, but instead we allowed unregulated gateway use and this totally undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States.
How has this "unregulated gateway use... undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States?"
Please explain.
That was covered very well in the "The Problem with Digital Ham Radio" topic, which I assume you have read since you posted there a few times.
Am I to take from this question that you did not read and understand the posts you were responding to, there?
Troll off.
It wasn't well covered there at all, Charles.
All that you posted were speeches devoid of any foundation of factual content. In fact, most of the content was ad hominem offerings for no purpose other than deflecting questions seeking factual replies.
Your posts amount to a tacit admission that you have naught with which to back up your claims about all of the marvelous things that are being done in Europe and how, but for the evil influence of the internet, we could be in packet Nirvana here in the US.
It would seem that packet Nirvana here in the US was not driven off by the internet, but by an overwhelming lack of interest by its users, who dropped out one by one, finding newer and better ideas to pursue.
Is that not the case, Charles? Can you refute that without resorting to another of your attempts to use simple ad hominem insult as a substitute for fact?
I doubt it.
KB3NDN
08-03-2007, 02:06 PM
Quote[/b] (wd4jzo @ Mar. 02 2007,06:10)]W2CBR appears to be a tech license in NY.
new jersey http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
WA3KYY
08-03-2007, 02:12 PM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 03 2007,09:53)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,09:36)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 03 2007,08:29)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Aug. 03 2007,08:59)]We could have had a digital network to match or better the European network here in the US, but instead we allowed unregulated gateway use and this totally undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States.
How has this "unregulated gateway use... undermined any effort to build or develop advanced amateur radio digital infrastructure, here in the United States?"
Please explain.
That was covered very well in the "The Problem with Digital Ham Radio" topic, which I assume you have read since you posted there a few times.
Am I to take from this question that you did not read and understand the posts you were responding to, there?
Troll off.
It wasn't well covered there at all, Charles.
All that you posted were speeches devoid of any foundation of factual content. In fact, most of the content was ad hominem offerings for no purpose other than deflecting questions seeking factual replies.
Your posts amount to a tacit admission that you have naught with which to back up your claims about all of the marvelous things that are being done in Europe and how, but for the evil influence of the internet, we could be in packet Nirvana here in the US.
It would seem that packet Nirvana here in the US was not driven off by the internet, but by an overwhelming lack of interest by its users, who dropped out one by one, finding newer and better ideas to pursue.
Is that not the case, Charles? Can you refute that without resorting to another of your attempts to use simple ad hominem insult as a substitute for fact?
I doubt it.
Albert,
I think Charles is at least partially correct on this. You may recall back in the early days of packet BBSs and the first gateways to the internet that BBS control ops of those gateway stations had to monitor traffic for content appropriate for Part 97 transmissions. Early on when content was almost 100% amateur to amateur messages, this was not a problem. But when 3rd party and other content started to traverse the packet networks, control ops started spending more and more time reviewing messages in the queue to make sure inappropriate content was not forwarded. Many got burned out and took their stations off the air. This was before the FCC liberalized rules to make the control op responsible only after being informed that inappropriate content was traversing their systems. But by this time damage had been done since the nodes that were taken down were not replaced.
A second factor was the relative ease with which links between nodes that were not spanned by RF connections could be connected via internet links. I do believe this did at least partially prevent the building of the infrastructure for a pure RF network. However, geography here compared to Europe is likely also major factor as to why internet links were used when long distances needed to be spanned. HF links are quite slow compared to VHF/UHF and do not support the speeds needed for the neat applications running on the European network. So with more and more internet links being used, why bother with RF at all?
It is somewhat of a conjecture that a strick regulation of what can be passed from amateur radio over gateways to the internet and back may have been an incentive to build the RF infrastructure necessary to achieve routine 19.2Kbps user access with much higher RF backbone speeds. But it is plausible. Since the internet link is far less expensive then the RF link, why use an RF link if the internet link is permitted?
73,
Mike WA3KYY
W3MIV
08-03-2007, 02:35 PM
Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Aug. 03 2007,10:12)]Albert,
I think Charles is at least partially correct on this. #You may recall back in the early days of packet BBSs and the first gateways to the internet that BBS control ops of those gateway stations had to monitor traffic for content appropriate for Part 97 transmissions. #Early on when content was almost 100% amateur to amateur messages, this was not a problem. But when 3rd party and other content started to traverse the packet networks, control ops started spending more and more time reviewing messages in the queue to make sure inappropriate content was not forwarded. #Many got burned out and took their stations off the air. #This was before the FCC liberalized rules to make the control op responsible only after being informed that inappropriate content was traversing their systems. #But by this time damage had been done since the nodes that were taken down were not replaced.
A second factor was the relative ease with which links between nodes that were not spanned by RF connections could be connected via internet links. #I do believe this did at least partially prevent the building of the infrastructure for a pure RF network. #However, geography here compared to Europe is likely also major factor as to why internet links were used when long distances needed to be spanned. #HF links are quite slow compared to VHF/UHF and do not support the speeds needed for the neat applications running on the European network. #So with more and more internet links being used, why bother with RF at all?
It is somewhat of a conjecture that a strick regulation of what can be passed from amateur radio over gateways to the internet and back may have been an incentive to build the RF infrastructure necessary to achieve routine 19.2Kbps user access with much higher RF backbone speeds. #But it is plausible. #Since the internet link is far less expensive then the RF link, why use an RF link if the internet link is permitted?
73,
Mike WA3KYY
I agree that Charles has been partially correct, Mike, and that is my point. He would have everyone believe that something sinister is in play, when all that really happened is that a natural progression of interests and capabilities yielded what was perceived by a majority of interests as a better model.
That sort of evolution is at the base of all progress -- the development of plush carriages took a beating with the advent of the internal combustion engine and Ford's innovative ideas about production. I imagine that the Fisher folks were a bit put out until their name and operation was bought out by automotive interests.
The point of my post is not to demean packet as a fairly effective tool in many cases, but to remind everyone that other tools are becoming available that are far more efficient and deserved consideration beyond insults and ad hominem attacks on their promoters.
That some of these new tools are either being misused or are being errantly adapted to questionable practices does not negate their value, though it surely does mandate a concerted effort to seek regulatory clarity and adherence to the Rules once adequate interpretations have been issued. Your rhetorical question "why use an RF link if the internet link is permitted?" is the key.
Until such time as the FCC rules on many of the uncertainties, the differing factions would better seek some common ground instead of simply insulting any and every user of another mode. As I have sought to remind one and all on many occasions, a compromise is a solution that pisses all parties off. If the FCC will not intervene, it either indicates that they are acquiescing in the new uses or that they sanction them. I refuse to believe that, after a decade of "misuse" (to use a term that fits my own definition of how some of these internet links are being employed), it is ludicrous to continue to insist that nothing has been done because no complaint has been filed.
73
W4INF
08-03-2007, 03:16 PM
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Mar. 02 2007,02:45)]A dollar to a doughnut sez, if someone informed the Echolink folk of this W2CBR-L would vanish forever. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Or until his next IP address refresh.
K4KWH
08-03-2007, 03:55 PM
Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ Aug. 03 2007,02:32)]Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Aug. 02 2007,20:07)]Alge? #And "Stone Age Dr"? # # Something sounds fishy to me. #
The street is a typo.
On a hunch, I Google-Mapped 57 Stone, after finding no trace of "57 Stone Age" via Google, MapQuest, nor even the USPS. #There is indeed a Stone Ave. in Elmwood Park, NJ, ZIP code 07407. #The address was found. #The cross-street is Herman.
It also appears that, conveniently, this address is almost directly adjacent to a freeway, an expressway, or a whatever-the-heck-it-is-way, I-46 or Rte. 46 or whatever-the-heck-it-is 46. #I won't make any accusations, but I assume this would be a prime location from which to annoy truckers on ch.19 if one chose to do so.
I will believe the "Alge" surname. #I have, in my music collection, at least one album - if not more - either produced or engineered by a "Tom Lord-Alge," so I have heard of it before. #[Google the name "Tom Lord-Alge." #Many, many matches. #Well-known in the music business.]
At any rate, the street name is just a typo and the surname is probably just an uncommon one, but yes, other things are fishy here. #And W2CBR needs to correct his info in the ULS.
Well, I do have some "Algae" in my pond and it seems to have been there since the "stone age"! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Sum'pin ain't right here. #Dare we send a little "alert" to certain friends?
Tan fer, mercy me?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
es 73
kc0vuv
08-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Btw, where is that trivia net...I know there is the Insomiacs net at 1am cdt. #Just curious
KI4ODO
08-03-2007, 05:06 PM
I say heck yeah,,,, let them "shoot skip" on the internet, keeps more of them off the air. teen-fo?
ve2nsm
08-03-2007, 05:22 PM
Quote[/b] (VO1GXG @ Aug. 03 2007,08:27)]Echolink is a wounderful tool . but CB is a waste of ionosphere
Explain how CBers using the ionosphere will result in its depletion.
I'll wait http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kc2orw
08-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Was this discovered by accident or did someone actually scour all the items in the Echolink list to find this? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
kn4ds
08-03-2007, 11:47 PM
Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ Aug. 03 2007,17:46)]Was this discovered by accident or did someone actually scour all the items in the Echolink list to find this? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Aww, c'mon... there are folks with so much free time, they have nothing better to do than scour Ebay looking for stuff they don't like and posting about it here.
How much of a stretch is it to think there are folks who cruise Echolink looking for something to complain about?
Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ Aug. 03 2007,14:46)]Was this discovered by accident or did someone actually scour all the items in the Echolink list to find this? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I posted this a long time ago. W2CBR connected to a local repeater here in Rochester, and the CB audio was heard here locally until the control op decided to shut it down. No searching required; sometimes they come to you.
Can't believe someone dug up this thread from ~6 months ago.
kc2orw
08-04-2007, 12:39 AM
Quote[/b] (n2zn @ Aug. 03 2007,17:27)]No searching required; sometimes they come to you.
Glad to hear that.
Quote[/b] ]
Can't believe someone dug up this thread from ~6 months ago.
I guess they were keeping in reserve for a special day or week or (hopefully not) month *gulp* http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ab0wr
08-04-2007, 03:21 AM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 03 2007,07:35)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Aug. 03 2007,10:12)]Albert,
I think Charles is at least partially correct on this. #You may recall back in the early days of packet BBSs and the first gateways to the internet that BBS control ops of those gateway stations had to monitor traffic for content appropriate for Part 97 transmissions. #Early on when content was almost 100% amateur to amateur messages, this was not a problem. But when 3rd party and other content started to traverse the packet networks, control ops started spending more and more time reviewing messages in the queue to make sure inappropriate content was not forwarded. #Many got burned out and took their stations off the air. #This was before the FCC liberalized rules to make the control op responsible only after being informed that inappropriate content was traversing their systems. #But by this time damage had been done since the nodes that were taken down were not replaced.
A second factor was the relative ease with which links between nodes that were not spanned by RF connections could be connected via internet links. #I do believe this did at least partially prevent the building of the infrastructure for a pure RF network. #However, geography here compared to Europe is likely also major factor as to why internet links were used when long distances needed to be spanned. #HF links are quite slow compared to VHF/UHF and do not support the speeds needed for the neat applications running on the European network. #So with more and more internet links being used, why bother with RF at all?
It is somewhat of a conjecture that a strick regulation of what can be passed from amateur radio over gateways to the internet and back may have been an incentive to build the RF infrastructure necessary to achieve routine 19.2Kbps user access with much higher RF backbone speeds. #But it is plausible. #Since the internet link is far less expensive then the RF link, why use an RF link if the internet link is permitted?
73,
Mike WA3KYY
I agree that Charles has been partially correct, Mike, and that is my point. He would have everyone believe that something sinister is in play, when all that really happened is that a natural progression of interests and capabilities yielded what was perceived by a majority of interests as a better model.
That sort of evolution is at the base of all progress -- the development of plush carriages took a beating with the advent of the internal combustion engine and Ford's innovative ideas about production. I imagine that the Fisher folks were a bit put out until their name and operation was bought out by automotive interests.
The point of my post is not to demean packet as a fairly effective tool in many cases, but to remind everyone that other tools are becoming available that are far more efficient and deserved consideration beyond insults and ad hominem attacks on their promoters.
That some of these new tools are either being misused or are being errantly adapted to questionable practices does not negate their value, though it surely does mandate a concerted effort to seek regulatory clarity and adherence to the Rules once adequate interpretations have been issued. Your rhetorical question "why use an RF link if the internet link is permitted?" is the key.
Until such time as the FCC rules on many of the uncertainties, the differing factions would better seek some common ground instead of simply insulting any and every user of another mode. As I have sought to remind one and all on many occasions, a compromise is a solution that pisses all parties off. If the FCC will not intervene, it either indicates that they are acquiescing in the new uses or that they sanction them. I refuse to believe that, after a decade of "misuse" (to use a term that fits my own definition of how some of these internet links are being employed), it is ludicrous to continue to insist that nothing has been done because no complaint has been filed.
73
The problem is that the media you describe as more efficient actually is NOT more efficient.
Trying to force amateur radio into carrying the same data speeds available on the internet does not NOT make for an efficient operation on shared spectrum. Yet that seems to *always* be the prime goal of anyone who has replaced amateur radio infrastructure with internet infrastructure.
Since the internet is also quite often lost, i.e. no service, during major disasters its use to "replace" amateur radio infrastructure leaves amateur radio ultimately at the mercy of the fragility of the internet if it is to accomplish anything.
This is not an "efficient" way to operate either. It would be quite similar to making all amateur radio emergency communication travel over Echolink. I don't think anyone reading this thread would think that to be acceptable practice. Yet there seems to be a disconnect with many people in that they think that sending non-voice data over the internet will work when sending voice data over the internet will *not* work.
If the State EOC in Topeka can't get an Echolink communications session established to the county EOC in Shawnee County just how does it expect email originated over Winlink to get delivered to the county EOC (in actual fact it doesn't depend on either).
Those "new tools" you speak of are just the same "old tools" wrapped in newer names. X.25 links, packet switching links, etc. have been available over commercial grade, common carrier infrastructure for decades. The "Internet" is just the same thing with a newer name. Ham radio never depended on this commercial common carrier infrastructure for carrying emergency traffic, or even NON-emergency traffic, it always depended on amateur radio infrastructure.
It was only with the Internet that we have begun to see amateur radio begin to place its capability of maintaining communications during disasters solely upon infrastructure that amateurs have no control over.
I would be amazed if a large percentage of hams are like me and view this as a bad thing and not as a good thing.
tim ab0wr
Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Mar. 01 2007,05:40)]There is really not that much difference between the "CB" mentality and the "Ham Radio over the internet" mentality, when you get right down to it. - They are made for each other.
In fact, all of the "radio over the Internet" activity really should be on citizen's band and the family radio service. - It has not worked out well for ham radio, but we can still feel good about developing the technology and the software for others.
Post of the day!!!!
n0jaa
08-05-2007, 08:37 PM
There goes the neighborhood. That's all we need now, a bunch of CB'ers and unlicensed abusers using Echolink to get onto ham radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
W2ILP
08-06-2007, 04:49 AM
Any communication that is not antenna RF to antenna is not radio communication...and in my humble opinion it is not real ham RADIO either. Thus the rules of FCC part 97 may only be partially applied to EchoLink and similar hybrid communication methods. The question can only remain as to which part is to be partially regulated by partially half baked parts..be they local or remote OMs or good buddies.
w2ilp (Interconnected Linked Parties)...may all become transparent and unseen. Its midnight...Do you know where your repeaters are?
Thats nice..play nice and don't fight.
N2OBS
02-23-2008, 03:16 AM
If people instead of complaining about things reported their findings then those who tread into illegal actions would have a spotlight upon them. Rather than reporting people mostly accept, condone and complain so these actions will continue until those who just use words in whining. So those out here who point a finger and whine get off your keyboard rear and report those characters otherwise stop complaining and whining how things are suppose to legally otherwise get rid of your amateur equipment and license. There are rules WE all have to follow no mater if your a Novice up toward an Extra us amateur radio operators still have a requirement to follow the same rules, nobody gets special treatment because their older or higher licensed than the rest of us. Be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Solution = following the rules, being respectful, kind to each other because some have forgotten or ignorant of the fact that it's a privilege to be an amateur radio operator and if you take advantage of the privilege then their are consequences to those actions specially when they break any of the FCC Part 97 rules. If those who complain equally use as much energy and effort in learning the morse code to obtain their license the airwaves would be more enjoyable but in some parts of the country rules have become lazy because people are lazy and those who will condone, acceptance of society are doomed to failure. Another example is citizen band radio, CB is not the reason for those airwaves being dirtied up but the acceptance of behaviors of the people who pollute the airwaves.
KA8NCR
02-23-2008, 03:21 AM
Hello.
Do not look now, but.
Not only CB, but GMRS is on Echolink.
IRLP, likewise, has a few of the same.
In the middle east, any form of VoIP is against the law.
The other thing I find odd is that Echolink says that a person is to use only one callsign, even if there is another callsign issued.
Now, in Saudi Arabia, use of anything but an approved callsign is a felony, even for things like VoIP.
This is also how they ban telephone VoIP, your Saudi Telephone Company issued phone number is your "callsign", the same as is done in the rest of the world for cellular radiotelephone.
So, never mind the fact that the Echolink policy is in direct conflict with ITU regulations that state a person who is licenced in a country must use that callsign.
The FCC rules, part 97.107 apply in the US, say the same thing.
I love threads that are months old. I'm going to go dig one up myself!
W2CBR appears to be a tech license in NY.
New Jersey. Big difference and the person signing on as CBR should've
known that.
KC9JIQ
02-23-2008, 02:05 PM
We now lump all the internet linked stuff (irlp, echolink, winlink, etc) into one group known as Lid-Link or Lid-Net.
Local repeater node here is linked into that incredibly stupid trivia net in the evenings. Amazing that all the time, money, invention, technology invested for over more than 100 years was spent so these bozos can play trivia games.
What a waste! The absolute worst use of ham radio I have ever seen.
They have taken what could have been an incredible teaching and learning tool and wasted it.
Stupid people. Definately Lid-Net stuff!
KL7FZ
Yes, HOW DARE they disturb a DEAD SILENT REPEATER!!! How dare they run a dumb "trivia" net! That's too much FUN! The ONLY purpose for repeaters, don't let no one fool you, is to aid in weather spotting and those skywarn nets, all the rest of the time a repeater is nothing more than a ID'er or a "good old boys" club!
If we don't know ya, we are not talking to ya! Even if we have to see the repeater burned to the ground!:(
:(:(:(
KD8HMO
02-23-2008, 02:20 PM
Echolink is a wounderful tool . but CB is a waste of ionosphere
I dont know about that.. I have saved several lives with CB radio. Out on the road, I have called in several accidents because of cb radio reports. CB radio does have its place. Stupidity isnt limited to CB. I was up on 14 mhz last night and some retards were keying up over another retard and playing the national anthem on top of him. Ham radio is not lily-white by any means.
KD8HMO
02-23-2008, 02:21 PM
Yes, HOW DARE they disturb a DEAD SILENT REPEATER!!! How dare they run a dumb "trivia" net! That's too much FUN! The ONLY purpose for repeaters, don't let no one fool you, is to aid in weather spotting and those skywarn nets, all the rest of the time a repeater is nothing more than a ID'er or a "good old boys" club!
If we don't know ya, we are not talking to ya! Even if we have to see the repeater burned to the ground!:(
:(:(:(
Dont forget the "Geritol" nets!
Ever since I started to use Echolink a few years ago that it would only be a matter of time before CB and/or GMRS would pop up. IMHO it is just another way to hijack a callsign but I don't understand how they got through the processing. When I registered my sons callsign they wanted to see some form of a copy of his license. I believe it was by Fax or you could take pictures (Like I did) and upload them to the staff who handle them. I can only imagine whats going to be next with CB radio !!!! PSK31 ? RTTY ?
My 2 cents
ai4ep
02-23-2008, 10:25 PM
...with cb they may all look alike in the photos...!!
kf4vgx
02-24-2008, 12:43 AM
...with cb they may all look alike in the photos...!!
....
Been to a ham feast lately ? Look's the same to me .
n9dsj
02-24-2008, 01:02 AM
Have been to several, all sorts of people there; young, old, white, black, brown, male and female.
Bill N9DSJ
....
Been to a ham feast lately ? Look's the same to me .
kf4vgx
02-24-2008, 01:07 AM
Ham feast , Hamfest . Meaning , some of us have found the fridge !:)
Ham feast , Hamfest . Meaning , some of us have found the fridge !:)
A few of the attendants DEFINITELY have...
kc7gnm
02-24-2008, 02:53 AM
W2CBR? OK honestly now, how many of you would jump at the chance to get a vanity call like W2CBR (CB'er)? Honestly now,speak up. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Well this is his info in QRZ
CallsignW2CBR (http://www.qrz.com/callsign/W2CBR) Class: Technician Codes: (http://www.qrz.com/i/codes.html) HVIE USA NameMark Alge Addr157 Stone Age Addr2Elmwood Park, NJ 07407 CountryUSA Effective09 Feb 2007 Expires: 09 Feb 2017 FRN0015586555 What's this? (http://www.qrz.com/i/fccsoup.html) FCCULS Listing (http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2880215) Lookups331
kf4vgx
02-24-2008, 04:40 AM
Well this is his info in QRZ
CallsignW2CBR (http://www.qrz.com/callsign/W2CBR) Class: Technician Codes: (http://www.qrz.com/i/codes.html) HVIE USA NameMark Alge Addr157 Stone Age Addr2Elmwood Park, NJ 07407 CountryUSA Effective09 Feb 2007 Expires: 09 Feb 2017 FRN0015586555 What's this? (http://www.qrz.com/i/fccsoup.html) FCCULS Listing (http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2880215) Lookups331
..
Sounds like a ham to me :o.
KI4RVH
02-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Have been to several, all sorts of people there; young, old, white, black, brown, male and female.
Bill N9DSJ
We ain't attendin the same hamfests evidently.
73
Chris
n9dsj
02-24-2008, 06:29 AM
Guess not, note I did not mention how many of each....would prefer more females.
73,
Bill N9DSJ
We ain't attendin the same hamfests evidently.
73
Chris
KC9JIQ
02-24-2008, 02:03 PM
Any communication that is not antenna RF to antenna is not radio communication...and in my humble opinion it is not real ham RADIO either. Thus the rules of FCC part 97 may only be partially applied to EchoLink and similar hybrid communication methods. The question can only remain as to which part is to be partially regulated by partially half baked parts..be they local or remote OMs or good buddies.
w2ilp (Interconnected Linked Parties)...may all become transparent and unseen. Its midnight...Do you know where your repeaters are?
Thats nice..play nice and don't fight.
I was told if the radio does not "glow" it's not a real radio! :(
kc7gnm
02-24-2008, 05:44 PM
..
Sounds like a ham to me :o.
Yeah but notice that he got his ticket right after the code dropped.
kc7gnm
02-24-2008, 05:47 PM
I was told if the radio does not "glow" it's not a real radio! :(
I guess my non-real radios (They don't glow except for the backlight for the digital displays) don't make real contacts. Hmmm funny how those non-real radios seem to work much better than those real radios. :)
...with cb they may all look alike in the photos...!!
Another one of your family reunions, Bob? :D
Quote: ai4ep
...with cb they may all look alike in the photos...!!
Another one of your family reunions, Bob? :D
Would you like to clean my screen and keyboard off now?
Would you like to clean my screen and keyboard off now?
As long as you've been on QRZ, you haven't learned to not drink beverages or eat anything while reading the forums? ;)
Silly boy...... :p :D