Pre VE Session Training [Archive]

KE7NMS

07-30-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ July 30 2007,05:01)]VEs can't really do much about scheduling of the meetings, though http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Oh, I'm not asking for the clubs to reschedule around me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The place I took my test was just sit down, here is the test, here is how you do to the test, and what you need to fill out. Pass or no pass. Have a nice day.

Mind you, it may have been this way because it was 30+ people each time.

I am currently going through all the club meetings for the local ones I can find to see which ones fall on a day I can do. I am on call on weeknights, otherwise I would already be in a club.

KA2P

07-30-2007, 08:09 PM

The VE team could pass out a "may we contact you?" form from the local club. Check the boxes on what your interests are and somebody will contact you, set up a time to meet with you at your station and answer questions.

N8UZE

07-30-2007, 08:10 PM

Our VE team hands out a list of local clubs and contact information for the local clubs. We also hand out the new operator's guide (I forget the exact name) that you can print out for free from the ARRL web site.

We would be unable to do more as we only get the room for 2 hours. Most test sessions basically take close to that time.

ab1ga

07-30-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ July 30 2007,14:52)]1. Voice operating practices
2. Not carrying over slangs from other services
3. Patience
4. General info on how your station should sound
5. QRM and QRMers
6. Elmering
A good idea, but I agree with many here that these matters should be part of a license course rather than an exam session. I base this on my own experience, where the VE session was in the evening, after work, during the week, and the exam alone made for a long night.

Still, there is a need for teaching what could be described as "good amateur operating practice", so I'd still like to make the following suggestions:

(1) and (2): (2), regarding the use of "foreign" slang, is really a component of good voice operating practice. The use of non-standard phonetics, unusual terminology, and failure to follow other standard practices hurt the ability to communicate quickly and clearly, an ability which should be at the core of our service.

(1) is also broad enough at some levels. Just as voice operations have their own standards, so do CW, SSTV, and the other digital modes. Repeater use has its own conventions, as do the specialized modes like meteor scatter and EME. I'm not saying that Technician candidates need to know all the minutiae right off, but we should instill the idea in all hams, old and new, that if you have the privilege of using a mode, you need to assume the responsibility of knowing how to operate that mode competently. New hams will make mistakes in execution due to simple lack of practice, which is to be expected and tolerated, but they should still know what proper operation is.

(3) is confusing to me. I seriously doubt that anyone can teach anyone else patience! I do agree that it is worthwhile to describe the advantages of patience in amateur operations.

(4) is an interesting item, and one that should be much easier to demonstrate today with computer sound files. One could play clips of unprocessed, properly processed, and stomped-on speech, to show that more can mean less. A similar approach could show what a chirp or click sound like, or overdriven PSK. I like this one a lot.

(5) and (6) I can't comment on now, I don't understand what you'd talk about here. If new, then how to be Elmered? How to respond to QRM? I'm not being negative here, just ignorant of the intent.

One thing that gets left out in these discussions is the creation of the question pool. It's important to remember that the VECs are supposed to coordinate with each other when formulating a question pool, and that the questions are formulated by Extra Class hams, not the FCC. The FCC has distanced itself from the pool to the point where they even gave the determination of the syllabus to the VECs, and seems to have only a distant oversight role.

Part 97 says the question pool must have at least ten times as many questions as the corresponding exam, but there is no upper limit. I also believe that the NCVEC would be hard pressed to reject out of hand any questions submitted by hams for inclusion in the pool, provided the question is well formulated. It would be good to take the topics here, generate questions based on them, and submit them, on the chance that this material would then become more embedded in the licensing process.

W5HTW

07-30-2007, 08:56 PM

Training?? Really? You mean, I can't have it right now? I gotta 'do something' in order to get it? I gotta waste time learning stuff before I can get a McHAMticket?

Ok, yeah, I don't think it is the VE's responsibility either. They are a testing organization, not a training one. The FCC didn't allow you to come in early and train for their tests.

It IS the club's responsibility. I have spent quite a few years with clubs, training new and already licensed people in both electronics theory and code. I also did the same thing through the YMCA evening education classes, not as part of a specific club.

The problem is convincing the newcomer that he has time to attend club training sessions. Even if he admits he isn't already a radio expert due to his CB experience, having him find the time and motivation to attend classes is often impossible these days.

Most clubs are willing to teach, though some are not. If you are wishing to learn about ham radio, find a club that will help. Switch clubs if you have to. It isn't the job of the VE team. Not in my opinion, anyway.

What I would like to see is a club that has VEs, and perhaps those VEs could conduct training sessions, one evening a week, or two, or on Saturdays. I am against the all day, guaranteed ham at the end of the day classes, but there is no reason a VE team, as a part of a club, could not each the theory and operating practices.

Ed

W4BD

07-30-2007, 09:02 PM

Well what if somebody is in a situation like me with no clubs withing 60 or so miles. Every time I took a test I had to drive at least 60 miles each way and several times it was 110 miles each way. When you get out of the Cities clubs get scarce.

I think if the clubs made up a CHEAT SHEET with all the infomation on it and and copies were handed out at the test session then maybe it would work.

73's

ai4ep

07-30-2007, 09:12 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif this idea is lousy...about on the same level as --- making ag4yo respeonsibale for all of ai4ep s radio transmissions. ...whether they be by voice / cw or any other way of communication.

I DO wonder If charley would be a good elmer for me...to teach me right from wrong in radio communications....after all, according to him - he knows sew much stuff...shirley he can shair his widsom with me.

---and tech me how to spell liek they dew in Mississippi --- .

I posted a message to Charley last week for him to " find a topic that was new, different & original " and start a thread about it. He did pretty good for an amateur . I have to give him a compliment on trying, any way.

10-4 ?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

N8CPA

07-30-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ July 30 2007,16:56)]Training?? #Really? #You mean, I can't have it right now? #I gotta 'do something' in order to get it? # I gotta waste time learning stuff before I can get a McHAMticket?

Ok, yeah, I don't think it is the VE's responsibility either. #They are a testing organization, not a training one. #The FCC didn't allow you to come in early and train for their tests.

It IS the club's responsibility. #I have spent quite a few years with clubs, training new and already licensed people in both electronics theory and code. #I also did the same thing through the YMCA evening education classes, not as part of a specific club. #

The problem is convincing the newcomer that he has time to attend club training sessions. # Even if he admits he isn't already a radio expert due to his CB experience, having him find the time and motivation to attend classes is often impossible these days. #

Most clubs are willing to teach, though some are not. #If you are wishing to learn about ham radio, find a club that will help. #Switch clubs if you have to. #It isn't the job of the VE team. #Not in my opinion, anyway. #

What I would like to see is a club that has VEs, and perhaps those VEs could conduct training sessions, one evening a week, or two, or on Saturdays. #I am against the all day, guaranteed ham at the end of the day classes, but there is no reason a VE team, as a part of a club, could not each the theory and operating practices. #

Ed
Reading that first paragraph, I got a horrible image. You know that creepy plastic king used by Burger King? Imagine some org promoting Amateur Radio using a creepy oversized HT, wearing a callsign cap, handing a license to a candiate.

Ewwwwwww!

wz9o

07-31-2007, 12:09 AM

As a VE…I am there to administer the test, not “wet nurse” the applicant.

WA2ZDY

07-31-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ July 30 2007,16:55)]A good idea, but I agree with many here that these matters should be part of a license course rather than an exam session.
You've hit on the problem right here. These days so few prospective hams even go to a license course. So many never meet another ham before seeing the VE team and learn all they learn either from the "experts" on CB or what they can interpret from a book.

ky5u

07-31-2007, 12:25 AM

Well here's the issue.... W3WN mentioned in another thread:

Quote[/b] ]I was teaching Amateur Radio classes ... I made a point of not just teaching code, theory, rules & regulations; but of operating techniques & procedures, on-air etiquitte (sp?), and so forth... So if you want quality new amateurs -- and I do too! -- then it is up to us to teach them.
This lead me to recognize that the difference between then and now is that back then a human being taught them. Now probably only 2% of upgrades or new hams go through a formal license course. So, my suggestion about the VEs was specifically to have a human being stand up in front of them and instruct new prospects and upgrades on the right things to do. Not a handout.

I thought of clubs too, but not all amateurs are near a club or a member of a club. This suggestion is the only way I could think of to ensure the human touch for these people. I posted it here to see if anybody here could think of another way to ensure 100% of applicant had even 1 hour of operating and Amateur Code training. (And for the remedial reader, I am NOT talking about Morse Code).

I asked N2RJ (a VE) in another thread if he kept in touch with the hams he administered tests too. He answered emphatically yes. I have a solid relationship with my own VEs. So you have a group of caring Amateurs (VEs) in the very best position to influence applicants. What better way to start them off right than with a bit of hands on Elmering?

kr2c

07-31-2007, 12:29 AM

I don't believe the one hour session is the way to go. Chuck will probably get all over me for this because I "had it easy" but I think the testing needs to be tougher. While I personally can see dropping the code, I really was surprised at how easy it was to pass the tech/general tests. Chuck is right, though, in the regard that we need to have better ops once they hit the air for the first time. One way to do this is to have the ops better prepared by having a more difficult test. Another way to do this is to provide the FCC/OO more "teeth" to enforce the rules or actually pay attention to what happens on the ham bands. If an op has made a basic operation infraction then they should be issued some type of warnings until they understand the procedure properly. Repeated violations should warrant stiffer penalties. But since nobody besides other ops are paying attention then this is all moot.

ky5u

07-31-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ July 30 2007,17:29)]I don't believe the one hour session is the way to go. Chuck will probably get all over me for this because I "had it easy" but I think the testing needs to be tougher. While I personally can see dropping the code, I really was surprised at how easy it was to pass the tech/general tests. Chuck is right, though, in the regard that we need to have better ops once they hit the air for the first time. One way to do this is to have the ops better prepared by having a more difficult test. Another way to do this is to provide the FCC/OO more "teeth" to enforce the rules or actually pay attention to what happens on the ham bands. If an op has made a basic operation infraction then they should be issued some type of warnings until they understand the procedure properly. Repeated violations should warrant stiffer penalties. But since nobody besides other ops are paying attention then this is all moot.
This isn't about the code and my name isn't Chuck. I agree about the rules being tougher. But I still think a premptive course is not a bad thing.

kn4ds

07-31-2007, 02:02 AM

I don't think it's very mature to use the diminutive of Charlie's name as a cheap insult because you don't agree with him.

That said, I do believe he's brought a valid concern to the table, and it merits discussion without insult.

I understand where the idea of VEs doing the elmering comes from - Charlie's seeing us as the last line of defense to keep lids off the air.

Obviously, we can't do that. If someone shows up to take a test, we have to administer the test. And if they pass the test, we have to sign their CSCE... and their upgrade will be processed. It doesn't matter what we may think of their ability to operate.

So how can we, as VEs, help new hams, and newly upgraded hams? Obviously we can't schedule elmering sessions before an exam, due in no small part to time constraints for many sessions.

I saw one idea... handing out some basic information on operating and a copy of the bandplans along with the CSCE. That's a good idea... at least we can put something in their hands.

Discussion?

AE6IP

07-31-2007, 02:04 AM

technically, it breaks the rules. if you teach a class you can't VE a session for that class.

kn4ds

07-31-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ July 30 2007,22:04)]technically, it breaks the rules. if you teach a class you can't VE a session for that class.
Excuse me? What've I missed?

ky5u

07-31-2007, 02:38 AM

Sounds like in typical Amateur style we're picking things apart but offering no solutions. Some of you say this isn't the ARRL's job. Others say it is not the VE's job. Individual Elmering after the fact is a good thing but not working. Most people taking the tests never go to a real class so a human being can tell them the right way to act.

Maybe I am imagining that a face time orientation with new Amateurs would have a profound impact on them over time.

ni3b

07-31-2007, 02:58 AM

After sitting as General since 1993 I recently figured that it was time to upgrade so I prepared myself and set out to look for testing sessions in my area.

There was a testing session during Field Day but I missed it because I got called into work. There was another session the following Tuesday but I was demonstrating R/C model aviation to a Cub Scout camp and it ran late so I missed out on the testing session. The next test session was out at a Boy Scout camp in PA the following Friday. I took off a couple of hours and traveled to the test session.

Sitting among 20 or so Scouts there were two other non-Scout walk-in's.

Prior to the test the VEs talked about amateur radio, their experiences, and what the Scouts as licensed hams can look forward to. Now, I understand that they were talking to newcomers to the hobby, but, their "talk" was extremely educational, interesting, and fun....even for a seasoned ham. I felt lucky to have had to sit through the talk. It made the testing session more enjoyable.

There were many new hams....and upgrades...at that testing session. Hopefully, a majority of them will grow with the hobby.

Have fun!

Best,
Brian

kn4ds

07-31-2007, 03:13 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ July 30 2007,22:38)]Sounds like in typical Amateur style we're picking things apart but offering no solutions. Some of you say this isn't the ARRL's job. Others say it is not the VE's job. Individual Elmering after the fact is a good thing but not working. Most people taking the tests never go to a real class so a human being can tell them the right way to act.

Maybe I am imagining that a face time orientation with new Amateurs would have a profound impact on them over time.
There are two problems with having VEs do the 'elmering' you talk about.

First is time. I help two VE teams. One of those teams has testing on Saturday morning, and we really wouldn't have too much trouble spending a little time talking about what to expect on HF, how to operate, etc. And that's something I'm thinking about.

The other team, though, holds the exam session 1 hour before the monthly club meeting. As it's a weeknight, and already at 6:30, it would be hard to drop it back to 5:30.

The second problem is, quite simply, "wanna."

I do not speak for myself here, because I have all the time I want for sessions, and I'm willing to spend some time helping lay out some basics... but many VEs are pressed for time, due to honey-do lists, other family obligations, even job related tasks.

So I'm not sure there's going to be a groundswell of support for the idea of showing up an hour earlier, or staying longer, to do such elmering.

Also take note - we cannot force anybody to sit through such a session as a requirement for taking a test. If they just want to take the test, that's what we have to do... administer the test. We can't take it upon ourselves to add to the requirements.

If you can get the VEs to help out, it's possible that you could schedule a "Intro to HF" or "HF 101" before the test session, and publicize it... some might show up for it.

I don't think it's the ARRL's job to do more than make the information available... and it's really not the VE's job (and we're constrained by the rules, too, since we can't force it on anybody) to try to make sure the candidate can do more than pass the test as prescribed.

Could we (the VEs) help? Sure. And I like that we're talking about it.

Charlie, I find no fault in your presumption that face time with new operators would have a great effect. It almost certainly would. But we can't force it at the VE level. That would require rules changes.

But none of this convinces me that anything is better than providing the education at the club meetings!

kf4hay

07-31-2007, 03:42 AM

I think this is a good idea to, #although it may not be practical. #I've seen quite a few new hams that have no idea of the actual procedure and some don't care to find out. When I was testing, #I was studying the books, #and I think they helped a lot, #as far as procedure, protocol and practice.
I think the problem is the internet. #As most just take practice test on line till they feel they can pass the test, #and even some that only took a few online test. # But online testing doesn't have all the info available that the books have.

But the trend is, do what you want , #when you want, #the way you want and the heck with everybody else. #Not only in ham radio, #but society in general.

kj5t

07-31-2007, 05:48 AM

I don't understand why people shouldn't learn this stuff on their own? I listened before picking up the microphone, any bad habits I learned were being made by the majority on the local frequencies (and most of those I suppose have been corrected since I have been around). Sure, the VE teams could offer extra help to those who want it, but it seems silly that people can't pick up on the common sense stuff on their own.

The other problem (as mentioned above) if the VE teams are those who also have these poor skills.

N8UZE

07-31-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ July 30 2007,22:04)]technically, it breaks the rules. if you teach a class you can't VE a session for that class.
Not so. The only people you are not permitted to test are close relatives.

kr2c

07-31-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ July 29 2007,18:56)]Quote[/b] (kc2rgu @ July 30 2007,17:29)]I don't believe the one hour session is the way to go. Chuck will probably get all over me for this because I "had it easy" but I think the testing needs to be tougher. While I personally can see dropping the code, I really was surprised at how easy it was to pass the tech/general tests. Chuck is right, though, in the regard that we need to have better ops once they hit the air for the first time. One way to do this is to have the ops better prepared by having a more difficult test. Another way to do this is to provide the FCC/OO more "teeth" to enforce the rules or actually pay attention to what happens on the ham bands. If an op has made a basic operation infraction then they should be issued some type of warnings until they understand the procedure properly. Repeated violations should warrant stiffer penalties. But since nobody besides other ops are paying attention then this is all moot.
This isn't about the code and my name isn't Chuck. I agree about the rules being tougher. But I still think a premptive course is not a bad thing.
The only reason I mentioned the code was that it is another way that the test is simpler. I would be all in favor of the code test returning to make the test more difficult (especially since I can pass it now. The point that I was really trying to make was that the test needs to be more difficult and needs to include more about operator protocol.

kr2c

07-31-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ July 29 2007,20:02)]I don't think it's very mature to use the diminutive of Charlie's name as a cheap insult because you don't agree with him.
You're right. It's not very mature. But I don't disagree with his basic argument. Ops do need better training/education going into the hobby. I just disagreed that the VEs should give a one hour session.

Also, he is just as much a Chuck to me as I am a NCG to him. My feeling is that he is being just as diminutive to me on a daily basis.

BTW I like that word. I declare it "Word of the Day"!

AE6IP

07-31-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ July 31 2007,02:31)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ July 30 2007,22:04)]technically, it breaks the rules. if you teach a class you can't VE a session for that class.
Not so. The only people you are not permitted to test are close relatives.
yeah, i suffered brane fade on that one.

thanks to the people who point it out.

kn4ds

08-01-2007, 03:23 AM

So no further ideas on this topic? I find that hard to believe.

n2cfj

08-01-2007, 06:17 PM

If operating practice were to be made part of the question pool, even the guys memorizing answers, (not acdccb), would have something rub off. Since many new hams are self taught, (as opposed to a license class), the VE session may be the only time they have an eyeball with another ham in their life.

AC0H

08-01-2007, 11:17 PM

You may run into a regulatory problem handing out any information or "Cheat Sheets" before a test if any of it could be traced back to actual questions on the test.

I think the better way to handle it is an after test class. Something akin to "You've got a license, now what?". It would then be pretty easy to see those who're serious about actually learning this stuff, and those who're more interested in their first death grip match with the mike.

ky5u

08-02-2007, 02:17 AM

I'd say even hold up handing out the Certificates until the post orientation is completed. Bet even 30 minutes would make a difference.

kn4ds

08-02-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 01 2007,22:17)]I'd say even hold up handing out the Certificates until the post orientation is completed. Bet even 30 minutes would make a difference.
It would help... but we can't do that. If they pass the test, we have to give 'em the CSCE. We (the VEs) can't add a requirement that they have to hang out for an "orientation" session.

What you propose will require a rule change.

I'm all for finding ways to help, and the only one I've seen so far that we can do *today* is to hand out an "HF Operations Guide" kind of thing.

That's not to say that we can't offer a few tips as we're filling out the paperwork, but we have to be careful not to disturb those who're still working their way through the exam.

ab1ga

08-02-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Aug. 01 2007,21:24)]I'm all for finding ways to help, and the only one I've seen so far that we can do *today* is to hand out an "HF Operations Guide" kind of thing.
How about a flyer in the Ops Guide inviting the recently licensed to an HF "boot camp". Not very long, a half a day or so, covering simple stuff like:

1. Your station: what to worry about, what not.
2. Adjusting your station: the evils of overdrive.
3. Using your station: where you can go, what you can do, and how you should do it.
4. What's legal, what's nice, and why nice is more important.
5. Bad habits and how to shake them.
6. Off-the-air stuff like QSLing.

You could probably do this in a community center somewhere, set up a simple station, add some pizza, and have a good time.

You couldn't do this every week, but every one or two months should be possible.

kn4ds

08-02-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote[/b] (ab1ga @ Aug. 02 2007,11:29)]Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Aug. 01 2007,21:24)]I'm all for finding ways to help, and the only one I've seen so far that we can do *today* is to hand out an "HF Operations Guide" kind of thing.
How about a flyer in the Ops Guide inviting the recently licensed to an HF "boot camp". Not very long, a half a day or so, covering simple stuff like:

1. Your station: what to worry about, what not.
2. Adjusting your station: the evils of overdrive.
3. Using your station: where you can go, what you can do, and how you should do it.
4. What's legal, what's nice, and why nice is more important.
5. Bad habits and how to shake them.
6. Off-the-air stuff like QSLing.

You could probably do this in a community center somewhere, set up a simple station, add some pizza, and have a good time.

You couldn't do this every week, but every one or two months should be possible.
Good ideas... they bring me back to the question of why the club isn't doing these programs.

I know that some clubs are little more than excuses to have dinner out once a month, and that is pretty much all the club does...

ky5u

08-03-2007, 04:51 PM

Good question. Seems like an orientation class would be a good way to get your membership application in front of new Amateurs too.

wa9cwx

08-04-2007, 05:05 PM

OK, This is my THIRD attempt, the server ate my last two....

The answer is PRIDE.

IF someone takes pride in their license, the hobby, and themselves, you will not need to 'trick' them , or coerce them, into good operating habits.

They will WANT to fit in, operate correctly, and observe traditions, and the rules.

I had a long post before, the server ate it, you are all spared the rant, but I STILL maintain that someone who takes the whole buisnes seriously, WILL find the way to operate correctly, and will NOT be interested in introducing 'CBisms" or whatever, into the hobby.

Frank

kn4ds

08-04-2007, 05:19 PM

Ray of hope... we had a candidate today take and pass his Technician and General. He had 2 or 3 pages of questions he'd written out that he wanted to ask, questions about operating, and modes and various things.

He hung around for about an hour afterward asking questions, and learning.

I liked that. He understood that he only learned a little from the books, and what he learned brought up other questions to him, and he wrote those down so he wouldn't forget and brought 'em with him.

Now *that* is a new ham that wants to learn.

wa9cwx

08-04-2007, 05:42 PM

UWL,

You done did good !

That is a fellow we want in our ranks.

Thanks, Frank

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kn4ds

08-04-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Aug. 04 2007,13:42)]UWL,

You done did good !

That is a fellow we want in our ranks.

Thanks, Frank

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Naw, I didn't do nuffin' but lend a bit of knowledge that I had. Others helped him with most of his questions (I was also finishing up the paperwork from the session).

I'm glad to see someone like him coming into the hobby. That was my point, to toot his horn, not mine.

I was also proud of the VE team for hanging out and answering his questions, sharing experience. We had 7 VEs, some of the guys could have bailed and gone to do other things, with their Saturday, but they didn't.

It *will* be interesting to see how Charlie spins this so it's a horrible day for amateur radio http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

ae4fa

08-04-2007, 05:59 PM

I agree that VE sessions are not the proper venue for training.

Rather, local clubs are - and not just the club meetings. For instance, one of our local clubs has monthly meetings on the 1st Monday evening of the month, with supper just before for those who want to come.

On the 3rd Saturday morning of each month, we sponsor a series of training sessions (breakfast before) that draw on the expertise of veteran hams. Lately, we've noticed quite a number of newer amateurs who've been to a hamfest or two and become enamored of hollow state gear. So, this month, we'll be doing a introductory session stressing safety and proper operation. In a few months, we'll do one on restoration.

Also planned are sessions dealing with fox hunting, homebrew and portable antennas, another one on mobile antennas, etc. In addition, a couple of our members have been working on a handout dealing with operating procedures - nets and otherwise.

All of this accomplishes three things. It offers valuable information to those who need it, builds participation (and membership) in the club, and provides camaraderie among local hams.

What better way is there?

K4TDM

08-04-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ July 30 2007,10:18)]Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ July 31 2007,02:31)]Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ July 30 2007,22:04)]technically, it breaks the rules. if you teach a class you can't VE a session for that class.
Not so. #The only people you are not permitted to test are close relatives.
yeah, i suffered brane fade on that one.

thanks to the people who point it out.
It doesn't break the rules, but I know a lot of VEs who don't test after they've taught, just to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

K1MDC

08-05-2007, 07:36 AM

Offering an orientation seminar after a testing session is a great idea, and I think it'd go a long way with both the new license holders and the long timers who'd prefer that the quality of the service would remain high. If this were offered at either of my test sessions, I'd have gladly jumped at the opportunity to meet some local hams and learn some of the less obvious aspects of the hobby. As it was, I got my Tech ticket at a hamfest, with lots of great operators to give me advice on a first radio, how to use it, and what to say.

When I took the General test a couple months back, it was a no-nonsense operation put on by an efficient crew of ex-military VEs and it didn't seem like talking of any sort before or after the test would be appreciated. Reading some of the other posts, it seems like this is a fairly common scenario.

There are clubs around town, but it seems like the only ones who hold regular meetings are the Em-Comm ones, and from their meeting notes, they're more about the Em rather than the Comm. People like myself are left to learn what we can from books, the internet, and the listening on the air.

Offering an orientation seminar after a testing session is a great idea and avoids the issues brought up earlier about the appearance of impropriety. Heck even a flyer or website with the appropriate information on it would be a valuable resource. Has anyone put together a site that has all the information that ould be useful in an orientation for a Tech/General/Extra? Stuff that isn't in the test? I'd do it, but quite frankly, I don't have the knowledge.