10 Meters - an observation

[ad4mg]

Yesterday and today brought a very nice N-S morning band opening on 10 meters. I enjoyed very much listening to the activity on that band.

With that said, I must add that I've never heard so many crummy sounding signals at one time. The most blatant offense was overdriven audio resulting in clipping and splatter. Next was RF in the audio chain, creating horribly distorted audio.

To put out the fire before it gets started, these hideous signals were created by all license classes, nooB's and old timers alike.

Take a few minutes, and get the setup adjusted right before you make an idiot out of yourself on 10 meters. When propagation returns, you will be on a worldwide stage, displaying your ignorance and inability to generate a clean, pleasing signal to the entire planet.

My rule of thumb is that your voice peaks should never exceed 50% of your "dead key" power output level, and that's the maximum. If you are running 100 watts with a single tone, then your voice peaks (on the average watt meter in most rigs) should stay mostly below 50 watts. More is not better. The best way to adjust your audio is with the ALC. Most modern rigs have a multi-meter with an ALC reading. Personally, I set my mic gain on both my IC-751 and IC-775 to just "tickle" the ALC, with a hint of processing (speech compression) on the higher bands. This results in the mic gain on both rigs being set very near the 9:00 position (about 30%).

And if someone is polite when telling you that your audio is overdriven, at least have the decency to look into it.

And no, when listening to 10 meters this morning, and pretty much always, I was not using the noise blanker, nor any preamplification. Also, no DSP was necessary. Ten meters was as quiet as I've ever heard it, with an S-0 noise level here this morning. Many signals sounded terrific. One that comes to mind was WY5I out of Texas, who was S9 + 30 here most of the morning. I didn't call him, but I listened to him for quite a while. He has a superb signal.

This post is not meant to slam anyone. It was just quite a surprise how many stations I heard who obviously have no clue as to how to set the mic gain and speech processing for operation on 10 meters. Meter swing is irrelevant. Nobody can tell the difference between 50 watt voice peaks and 90 watt voice peaks on the receiving end. And you will sound so much better with your modulation set to something below WFO!

FWIW.

73,
Luke

[KA4DPO]

I just don't understand it, my Ranger has a swing kit in it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wz9o]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 29 2007,08:49)]I just don't understand it, my Ranger has a swing kit in it. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
And I'm running a 12 pill "Dave Made" lean-year!!

Rogooo!!!

[ad4mg]

I would expect a little more out of you two, even though I see the humor in your remarks.

Obviously, neither of you was listening to 10 meters this morning. It was pretty sad.

If folks want to sound like idiots on 10 meters, it's alright with me. I just take it upon myself to do what an amateur is supposed to do, and that's offer help. If it isn't wanted, That's fine too.

[kc4umo]

I noticed the same thing yesterday. There wasa few stations that was so distorted you could hardly tune them in.

At the present time I am just monitoring the band and sticking with code only. I had several reports that my audio is distorted. Have not put my finger on it yet so dont know what is up. I do know that the ALC shows zero.

But my CW mode still works fine

[KA4DPO]

OK, sorry MG but I couldn't help it.

I'm listening to 10 right now and most of the signals are pretty good but there are a few that need to tone down the processor. A lot of hams run the speech processor wide open with the mic gain cranked up thinking it will give them more "talk power". I certainly agree with you that a good number of amateurs need to read the manual more carefully and get some help setting up their rigs.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 29 2007,12:06)]OK, sorry MG but I couldn't help it.

I'm listening to 10 right now and most of the signals are pretty good but there are a few that need to tone down the processor. A lot of hams run the speech processor wide open with the mic gain cranked up thinking it will give them more "talk power". I certainly agree with you that a good number of amateurs need to read the manual more carefully and get some help setting up their rigs.
Oh, I'm the consummate trouble maker around here (at least in the Rag Chew section), so I have no business whining about anything like that!

I was troubled at the number of poor sounding stations I heard on 10. I hopped across just about every band, and didn't notice this anywhere else.

I've had some problems with RF getting into my audio before, and it was primarily on 10 meters. My issue turned out to be a bad coaxial jumper with an intermittent shield connection.

I suppose that many folks just haven't run their rigs on the higher bands in a while, and aren't aware of the problems. That covers most of the hardware issues, but that "more swing in the meter" mentality just seems so prevalent on 10 meters. Interesting enough is that when the band opens, 10 meters is where you need the least!

73,
Luke

[N2RJ]

Let's face it - some people just love to watch the meters dance. They don't care if what they're doing is right.

[W5HTW]

With an older rig and an analog meter, the rule of thumb is usually the voice peaks will run about 35 percent of peak "key down" power. The digital meters are faster, and do respond to voice peaks, so I would guess 50 percent is about right.

There is a mentality about "full to the right" that is increasing. Yes, it has been around for a while I guess, but again, back in the days of plate modulated rigs, or analog meters, the hams I knew kept it pretty clean. Today they amplified microphone (which I feel should be banned from ham radio, totally) coupled with an adjust microphone gain inside the rig, coupled with a compressor, coupled with a "full right" attitude is the way it is going, and appears to be the way it is going to continue to go. I know, I know, we pick on CBers, but that amplified microphone and "full right" came down that pike and migrated into ham radio. It's here to stay, I would guess. No one is telling them any better when they get the ham license, so there we go, pedal to the metal operating.

Ed

[KC7UP]

No problem up here. No 10 meter sounds at all.
Curt

[wz9o]

I'm affraid that when the cycle picks up...it's going to get a whole lot worse,and not just on 10m.

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ July 29 2007,17:33)]I'm affraid that when the cycle picks up...it's going to get a whole lot worse,and not just on 10m.
Hey Fo Rogee Driver........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ July 29 2007,18:40)]Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ July 29 2007,17:33)]I'm affraid that when the cycle picks up...it's going to get a whole lot worse,and not just on 10m.
Hey Fo Rogee Driver........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
You forgot the *ppinngggg*. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kg4yus]

Alot of radios that were modified for 11 meter use are being used back on the 10 meter band. Unfortunately in these cases its licensed operators who know better than to be on 11 meter with an illegal radio but dont care.

11 meters, where the quality of your signal means nothing, and how far your radio can bleed on other channels means everything

[k5okc]

In the old days, a ham wouldn't answer a CQ from a poor operator. The term LID has lost a lot of meaning, but this is what a LID used to be.

To talk to a LID (poor station) was like moving to Atlanta. It just wasn't done.

[w3bny]

All knobs to the right club eh? After you get done reading the manual, look at your signal on a station monitor even a old heathkit like I gots. I was showing a new General how to setup the rig (when I was running a 757GX) and he was surprised as to how bad his signal looked compared to a nice SSB waveform. He believed in all knobs to the right as well.

[k0dxc]

I've noticed a couple stations like that on 20 M phone one time. Some guys called me and his audio was so disorted I couldn't have a hope of understanding him.

[KE7NMS]

AD4MG,

Thank you for your help. I got some of the same help on 40m last night, and many compliments on my audio after they walked me through setting my mic gain and processor.

I would have figured it out on my own, if I had a way to monitor my own signal. I have no second HF receiver, and I have no scope. Yet.

So every little bit of information on proper setup helps. The manual on my radio isn't very specific on how to setup the mic gain or anything.

I also never read anywhere until this thread, thank you W5HTW and others, about what my analog meter should be reading on SSB Phone when transmitting.

I did notice that when I turn the gain down to just *tickle* the ALC though, my 100w TS-130S is only showing about 25w on the needle. No one can hear me either it seems. If I turn this up to where it just tickles the top of the alc range, then I can be heard, and understood as long as processing is off, and it's around 50w.

I wouldn't have figured any of this out with out the help of other operators on the air.

So, rather then bash us new operators, try to help us out once or twice. If we refuse to try and accept the help, well yeah.. go back to bashing them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Ignorance can be taught. Idiots can not.

[M0JMO]

Great post Luke

I've just got myself a TS-440S (my previous HF sets being an Icom 706 and a Yaesu FT-100D) and the "back to basics" nature of this radio means that I've got to learn to drive it rather than just set some menu items.

So, I was putting out CQ calls on 10m yesterday with the needle on my meter peaking at the top of the ALC scale. Maybe I was overdriving the poor radio and that's why no one was responding to my calls!

I'll give it another go tonight with the mic gain turned down (I had it at about the 3 o'clock position before).

On my old FT-100D, I just set it to 100W output and that was that... I was a stumped when I got this radio and I couldn't find the power output selector!

Anyway, thanks for the information... I'll put it to good use!

73

Josh
M0JMO

[ad4mg]

KE7NMS, and 2E0JMO, you guys made my day!

Many manuals don't give much guidance on setting up the audio properly. To complicate things, some microphones (many of the older Icom's, before the "Pro" series of rigs) have an additional adjustment on them.

No particular method is perfect, and not all settings are suitable for all situations. In a contest, for example, you could benefit from a little extra punch provided by speech processing to be heard in the crowd. Noisy band conditions may call for a little more punch. Personally, I only use processing (or compression, basically the same) on 20 meters and higher bands. I guess that's because folks like to rag chew more on 40, 75, and 160 meters, and it's tiring to listen to over-processed or over-driven audio for a long time.

Also, the power output meter in all rigs reads differently. Many are just too slow to react to voice peaks and give an accurate reading. There are some digital meters that give almost instantaneous readings, and some will even "hold" and display a peak reading for you to evaluate. The key is in asking someone what you sound like. If your meter is reading 25 watt peaks, you might be getting 30 watts, but you might be getting 90 watts! It depends on the meter.

If you can find someone who hears you S9 or so, that's the person to ask. A S9 + 60 signal is going to sound harsh, no matter what, so a nearby neighbor isn't a great choice. If you have another ham within 3-5 miles of you, try to catch them on 10 meters, or 40 meters, and ask them to evaluate your audio.

I'm very happy that you received my message in a positive manner! It proves to me that the naysayers are wrong, and that there are hams out there who want to learn and improve their signal. An good, clean signal will earn you immediate respect on the air, no matter what anyone says!

Best 73,
Luke

[N5BO]

I rarely spend time on 10M these days and I always find horrible sounding signals on the band.

[M0JMO]

Well, it turns out that there were no batteries in my MC-80 microphone that probably wasn't helping... I had a nearby ham listen to my audio without and then with batteries installed and he said there was a huge difference.

So, a bit less mic gain and a set of batteries (I didn't even know it had a pre-amp in it!) and I think I'm getting a bit more readable.

Thanks again Luke.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] ]10 Meters - an observation, Why all the dirty signals?

They'd done the whites, the darks, but hadn't gotten to the signals?


Maybe using "10 meter CB equipment"?

[K9STH]

The most often heard suggestion from those who are DX or go on DX'peditions when asked for their recommendation as to what to do to work the most DX on SSB is

TURN OFF YOUR PROCESSOR!

Yes, using a processor can make the signal "louder". However, in the VAST majority of cases the signal becomes distorted and the DX station will "pass" on that station and work someone that they can understand.

It is possible to adjust a processor correctly. However, that generally requires specific test equipment and the adjustment usually changes when the band is changed (sometimes even when changing frequency very much within the same band). As such, there are very few signals on the bands that have the processor correctly adjusted.

Back in the 1970s the "rage" was to go to "r.f. processing" and/or "compression" and there were add-on kits made for Collins, Heath, Drake, Hallicrafters, and several other brands of equipment. However, because of the distortion that was caused by virtually all of these processors they soon were either turned off or removed completely from the equipment. Every once-in-a-while someone posts a request on the various reflectors saying that they have "found" one and want to use it. Virtually everyone with any experience will tell them to sit it on a shelf and definitely not try to use it.

It is the same with the processors in "modern" equipment. If properly adjusted then can be of some use under certain conditions. Unfortunately, the instruction manuals don't really tell how to "set up" the processors correctly. Even if the instruction manuals did give the proper instructions the vast majority of amateur radio operators these days are still not going to get them properly adjusted.

The end result is that for proper SSB operation the processor should be turned off and left off UNLESS the operator really knows how to adjust it AND has the proper test equipment to do so.

Glen, K9STH

[WA9SVD]

The idea (even obliquely suggested by some of the manufacturers) is that if some ALC indication is good, MORE is better...
Most instructions (if there are ANY) will say to keep the ALC within the "zone" on the meter. But too many people try to keep the ALC meter reading always at the TOP of the scale, where the distortion is likely to be horrendous already.
Add to that an OFF/ON switch to a processor (no adjustment possible) and that "high" ALC reading is a positive disaster and likely unreadable signal.

[ky5u]

Glen has a good point. Processing can help a QRP SSB signal be heard but for normal operations most processoes make you sound like a CBer with a Turner +2 at turned up to max.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 01 2007,11:00)]Glen has a good point. Processing can help a QRP SSB signal be heard but for normal operations most processoes make you sound like a CBer with a Turner +2 at turned up to max.
Some rigs have a level adjustment for the speech processing. My IC-775 has such an adjustment. I talk to guys all the time who say they absolutely hate speech processing, but they seldom notice mine is on. On 20 meters and above, I generally use just a hint of processing. I never use it on the lower bands where folks are mostly interested in a real conversation.

None of this is of any concern when running CW, my favorite mode!