View Full Version : Sharia law in the USA???
NY Cops defending Islam! (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/07/28/2007-07-28_student_nabbed_in_koran_dunk-1.html)
N4AUD
07-29-2007, 03:46 AM
"Shmulevich was awaiting arraignment in Manhattan Criminal Court on hate crime charges for criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, officials said."
They are not "defending Islam" but simply doing their job by enforcing the law. Jeeezzz....
How the hell does this mean that there is Sharia in the USA?
Are you taking lessons from kg4kww?
Quote[/b] ]but simply doing their job by enforcing the law
Yea, that was the repeated defense at the Nuremburg trials, too.
While they spent hundreds of hours "investigating" the horrific offense, hundreds of rapists, robbers, muggers, etc. were not captured and their victims left hanging there.
Quote[/b] (NC5P @ July 28 2007,23:11)]Quote[/b] ]but simply doing their job by enforcing the law
Yea, that was the repeated defense at the Nuremburg trials, too.
While they spent hundreds of hours "investigating" the horrific offense, hundreds of rapists, robbers, muggers, etc. were not captured and their victims left hanging there.
I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Just be honest with yourself and say you don't like Muslims. You'll feel better.
N4AUD
07-29-2007, 04:39 AM
Quote[/b] (NC5P @ July 29 2007,00:11)]Quote[/b] ]but simply doing their job by enforcing the law
Yea, that was the repeated defense at the Nuremburg trials, too.
While they spent hundreds of hours "investigating" the horrific offense, hundreds of rapists, robbers, muggers, etc. were not captured and their victims left hanging there.
I didn't say they were "just following orders" which was the defense at Nuremberg, I said they were doing their job by enforcing the law. You complain about police officers NOT doing their job, and you complain when they do.
These officers don't pass the laws they enforce, and may not even agree with them but their duty is to enforce them. If you don't like the laws in New York, move there and change them.
Please cite some statistics backing up your assertion about man-hours of investigation, and these rapes, muggings, robbers and "etc." that were not handled because of this incident.
Bet you can't.
Put up or shut up.
n2ize
07-29-2007, 04:40 AM
Why is he being charged with hate crimes in this incident ? From what I read there is nothing to indicate that he harassed someone or flushed the Koran to display hatred for anyone. If he flushed an English literature book would that mean he was displaying hatred for English people ? If he flushed a French or Italian book was he showing hatred for French or Italians ? If he flushed a math or science book would that be hatred for scientists and mathematicians ?I think charging him with a "hate crime" under the circumstances here is a bit absurd.
The only crimes I could see in this case is the defacement of school property, i.e. flushing books that don't belong to him and stuffing a toilet.
n2ize
07-29-2007, 04:45 AM
Quote[/b] (n4aud @ July 28 2007,21:39)]Quote[/b] (NC5P @ July 29 2007,00:11)]Quote[/b] ]but simply doing their job by enforcing the law
Yea, that was the repeated defense at the Nuremburg trials, too. #
While they spent hundreds of hours "investigating" the horrific offense, hundreds of rapists, robbers, muggers, etc. were not captured and their victims left hanging there.
I didn't say they were "just following orders" which was the defense at Nuremberg, I said they were doing their job by enforcing the law. #You complain about police officers NOT doing their job, and you complain when they do.
These officers don't pass the laws they enforce, and may not even agree with them but their duty is to enforce them. #If you don't like the laws in New York, move there and change them.
Please cite some statistics backing up your assertion about man-hours of investigation, and these rapes, muggings, robbers and "etc." that were not handled because of this incident.
Bet you can't.
Put up or shut up.
Very well put. The police have a job to do. There are always people who are going to complain either way.
I know of at least 2 cops who don't nessesarilly like certain laws and often wish they didn't have to arrest people in violation of those laws. However, regardless, they can't simply turn their back when they see somebody violating those laws.
I still want to know how the hell this means sharia law in the USA.
KI4PEQ
07-29-2007, 07:32 PM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,22:50)]I still want to know how the hell this means sharia law in the USA.
It doesn't. But if the guy flushed the Holy Bible down the crapper, no one would have made a peep.
n2ize
07-29-2007, 07:43 PM
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ July 29 2007,12:32)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,22:50)]I still want to know how the hell this means sharia law in the USA.
It doesn't. But if the guy flushed the Holy Bible down the crapper, no one would have made a peep.
Which is exactly my point, why should flushing a book, any book, be considered a "hate crime" ?
If the guy made an open threat to the moslem community and then proceeded to flush the book then yeah, I could see that. If he put up a U Tube video saying some negative remarks and flushing it , yeah, I could see that. #But for sneaking a book, saying nothing, and flushing it ? I hardly see the "hate crime" in that. Stealing ? yes, Vandalism yes. Stupidity ? , yes, Hate crime ?, NO.
Hate crimes are stupid. They are entirely based on thoughts, attitudes, and opinions, not on somebody throwing a punch. I WILL trash anybody, the police, DA, judges, etc. who enforce stupid laws. I did like the comment about the bible. Nothing would have been done in that case. Also, what about that Merrill character who burned a $60,000 quran in protest to islam's treatment of gays? How come he wasn't arrested? I think he lives in nyc.
It is obvious that laws are enforced selectively based on pecking order of the alleged victim and the offender. It is so blatant yet many of you can't seem to see it.
Lemme see.. he admitted stealing books and flushing them down the toilet? Sounds like a righteous bust to me!
Now it's true that if he had been publicly and with much ado burning the KJV, that'd have been protested by the fundies, rosaries would have the RC on his case, and if he'd been flushing the Tanakh the JDL would have jumped in. THOSE would be a hate crime, whatever kind of hate they mean. But never mind all that; putting Islam's holy book in the toilet by stealth is apparently something to be ignored. Good thing we got him on theft!
We won't talk about folks who'd write the names of prominent religious persons on the insoles of their shoes, or the butts of their underpants, eh?
The guy who tried toilet paper (http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/12568.html) is serving a five year probation.
Cortland
KA5S
N4AUD
07-29-2007, 09:26 PM
Quote[/b] (NC5P @ July 29 2007,16:14)]Hate crimes are stupid. They are entirely based on thoughts, attitudes, and opinions, not on somebody throwing a punch. I WILL trash anybody, the police, DA, judges, etc. who enforce stupid laws. I did like the comment about the bible. Nothing would have been done in that case. Also, what about that Merrill character who burned a $60,000 quran in protest to islam's treatment of gays? How come he wasn't arrested? I think he lives in nyc.
It is obvious that laws are enforced selectively based on pecking order of the alleged victim and the offender. It is so blatant yet many of you can't seem to see it.
I thought I had read some stupid posts, but that one takes the cake.
Hate crimes can include a physical assault, but can also include things like the Klan burning a cross on a black family's front lawn. Hate crimes are intended to intimidate and frighten a specific group, targeting someone because of race, national origin, religion or other factors.
The stupid part, and I quote: "I WILL trash anybody, the police, DA, judges, etc. who enforce stupid laws."
All of the people you name have a SWORN DUTY to impartially enforce ALL laws without regard to their personal feelings. THEY DON'T MAKE THE LAWS!
In case you didn't get it
THEY DON'T MAKE THE LAWS
By your convoluted reasoning, if a police officer thinks a rape victim was "asking for it" he wouldn't investigate and charge a rapist. If he thinks it's OK to drive drunk he wouldn't arrest drunk drivers. If he's a member of NAMBLA he wouldn't go after child molesters. If he's a Klan member, he doesn't investigate a lynching (and this example IS based in fact).
That's why administration of justice must be IMPARTIAL. Police officers, prosecutors and judges shouldn't make judgments about which laws they agree with and don't agree with; laws are made by elected legislatures. If a law needs to be changed, it must be changed at that level, NOT by selective enforcement. Police officers don't need to be in the business of selective enforcement.
Like all the other posts you make, you indict the police without knowing the FACTS in the case simply because of your irrational hatred of police officers. You need help, OM.
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ July 29 2007,14:32)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,22:50)]I still want to know how the hell this means sharia law in the USA.
It doesn't.
That's all I needed to hear. Thanks.
Quote[/b] ]But if the guy flushed the Holy Bible down the crapper, no one would have made a peep.
I agree that may be the case, but two wrongs never make a right. If there is a law against hate crimes, it should be applied equally across the board.
I do know that for "hate crimes" against Judaism, such as painting swastikas in public places the police have arrested people.
kb2vxa
07-29-2007, 10:02 PM
Hi guys,
Here's the part that sticks in my throat;
"It's impossible. He was defending the Koran," said Ola Petrovich, 24, an online saleswoman.
Maybe you all overlooked the obvious question, how can you defend something by flushing it down the toilet?
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,21:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall...
kc0ukk
07-29-2007, 11:09 PM
The student has possibly stolen two books and disposed of them improperly. He has been charged with two felony counts for this act. What kind of toilet was it? If not a urinal, then perhaps he could also be charged with aggravated plugging.
Which book the student has dunked seems to be of some importance. Had it been a math refresher, would he have been guilty of 'hating' mathematicians? Or would, perhaps, he have been guilty of ‘hating’ mathematics?
In this case, the student must have hated Muslims, rather than Islam; for what would be the crime in hating a religion? Islam is not simply a religion, though; it also seeks political power and the subjugation of all other belief and legal systems to its own systems.
Are Bush ‘haters’ guilty of a mindcrime? Why not? Is it because Bush is a public figure? If that is true, then Islam, like Communism, Catholicism, Nazism, Republicanism and so forth, is susceptible to strong criticism and public debasement.
That the police and law enforcement enforce all laws equally is ludicrous; individual judgment has been applied at all levels at all times. The cop who issues a warning instead of a ticket or the prosecutor who charges misdemeanor instead of felony are obvious exceptions.
No, there is something ‘special’ about this case. Perhaps the judicial system is not only prosecuting this student, rather, it appears that a ‘message’ is about to be sent and this student is merely the courier.
ka5piu
07-29-2007, 11:39 PM
Hello.
If I found a Koran in the bathroom I would be somewhat upset, but to call it a hate crime?
Walk up to me and tell me you are going to rip up the Koran and I would be upset.
But, unless you actually attack my religion directly, something quite hard to do, I would simply take this in stride.
Next I will hear about an accident between 2 motorists being called a hate crime.
Perhaps we can have special parking places for followers of Islam.
The whole thing is insane.
kc2orw
07-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ July 29 2007,15:02)]Hi guys,
Here's the part that sticks in my throat;
"It's impossible. He was defending the Koran," said Ola Petrovich, 24, an online saleswoman.
Maybe you all overlooked the obvious question, how can you defend something by flushing it down the toilet?
Yeah agreed this is one badly written piece.
There is a mention of previous incidents...
Junk journalism, atrocious writing skills, bad editing (common these days) might better explain the difficulties in reading this scattered article.
Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ July 29 2007,19:39)]Hello.
If I found a Koran in the bathroom I would be somewhat upset, but to call it a hate crime?
Walk up to me and tell me you are going to rip up the Koran and I would be upset.
But, unless you actually attack my religion directly, something quite hard to do, I would simply take this in stride.
Next I will hear about an accident between 2 motorists being called a hate crime.
Perhaps we can have special parking places for followers of Islam.
The whole thing is insane.
"In the bathroom" is probably less offensive than "In the commode" don't you think? However, as I've read, a Muslim is not to even touch a Koran after the act of elimination until he has performed the prescribed ablutions. One might therefore understandably take offense at those who exercise their freedom of expression in such a manner.
As I understand the tone of this board, there are those among us who would have their own religions treated as solicitously as it appears to them Islam is being treated. Despite their outcry, Islam enjoys no special protection in this country, and our other religions, if attacked in a similar manner, might prevail in an action under the "Hate Crime" laws.
However, it is not unlawful in this country to maintain that one, any, or all religions are false, are mistaken, or are perversions of a far larger reality, or that those whom religion is pleased to call the assemblies of the learned are not in some or large part corrupt and fallible. These views are often grounded in fact. Indeed, they are sometimes confirmed at trial! From this kind of criticism, neither Christianity, Judaism, Islam nor any other religion is here immune, nor should they be.
I think that what the Declaration of Independance calls "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind," requires that, though not according them the deference they wish they had, we treat all religions courteously. But that's just me; this is The Zed, and that rule isn't so popular any more.
wa'salaama
Cortland
KA5S
KI4PEQ
07-30-2007, 01:22 AM
Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ July 29 2007,17:39)]Perhaps we can have special parking places for followers of Islam.
Right! Muslims would drive for miles to patronize an establishment that reserves parking for followers of Islam. Such a spot would be a parking Mecca.
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,15:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Really? At least 5 land ran off the Clintons and youse guys were dumb enough to elect her as senator, speaking of ignorance.
Quote[/b] (K5FH @ July 29 2007,17:28)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,21:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Mirror, mirror, on the wall...
Yet another ignorant 5 lander. Keep it coming!!
I've lived in NYC. Have you lived there recently?
Ronald Reagan aint president no more, you know...
Quote[/b] (W5JO @ July 29 2007,21:33)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,15:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Really? At least 5 land ran off the Clintons and youse guys were dumb enough to elect her as senator, speaking of ignorance.
Another one. You guys are out in full force tonight, eh?
I don't care about Hillary, I didn't (and couldn't) vote for her. Seriously, is that the best you can do, punk?
And I live in NJ now, not NYC.
But I did live in NYC and it is really safe. I rode the subways late at night and walked through the city at night as well. It is not the wild west like you guys make it out to be. It is very safe. There are cops everywhere, and if you call 911 emergency response is almost immediate.
Even Harlem and the South Bronx are safe at night in most places...
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,19:56)]Yet another ignorant 5 lander. Keep it coming!!
I've lived in NYC. #Have you lived there recently?
I lived in southern Connecticut off and on between 1990 and 2003. #I worked with quite a few New Yorkers and visited New York frequently. #Close enough.
Until I moved to that area from the South I had never seen the kind of racism and anti-Semitism that are rampant in the so-called "civilized" NYC area. #It's open, blantant, and disgusting. #Everybody publicly gives politically-correct lip service to "equality" and "diversity" but, in private, a much different attitude emerges.
But, then, you 2-land types are (by your own definition) so much more "civilized" and "tolerant" than us "ignorant 5 landers."
And you're a damn sight more hypocritical, too.
n2ize
07-30-2007, 07:35 AM
Quote[/b] (W5JO @ July 29 2007,19:33)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,15:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Really? #At least 5 land ran off the Clintons and youse guys were dumb enough to elect her as senator, speaking of ignorance.
Maybe it's a sign of intelligence rather than being dumb. especially when you look at what was running against her.
n2ize
07-30-2007, 07:45 AM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,19:59)]Quote[/b] (W5JO @ July 29 2007,21:33)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 28 2007,15:30)]I see another ignorant 5 lander is an expert on New York City and its crime situation.
Really? #At least 5 land ran off the Clintons and youse guys were dumb enough to elect her as senator, speaking of ignorance.
Another one. #You guys are out in full force tonight, eh?
I don't care about Hillary, I didn't (and couldn't) vote for her. #Seriously, is that the best you can do, punk?
And I live in NJ now, not NYC.
But I did live in NYC and it is really safe. #I rode the subways late at night and walked through the city at night as well. #It is not the wild west like you guys make it out to be. It is very safe. #There are cops everywhere, and if you call 911 emergency response is almost immediate.
Even Harlem and the South Bronx are safe at night in most places...
Just to be fair it's true that the city is much safer than it was back during the late 1960's and 1970's. However, there are still plenty of areas of the that I wouldn't advise walking around at night by onesself unless you know where you're going and have familiarity with the area and oknow who to avoid and/or what situations to avoid.
However in general yes, the probability of being victimized by crime is lower than it has been in the past. Even in "rough areas" known to be frequented by druggers or "rough types" #the probability of being victimized by criminals is quite low.
ka5piu
07-30-2007, 07:52 AM
Hellol.
I have been to NYC dozens of times.
First off Semites are sons of Abraham.
That means both Arabs & Jews, lets get the minor issues of facts out of the way.
Second, there is very little in the way of anti-Jew sentiment.
There are Jewish people with bad reputation, the scum-lords come to mind.
I do feel that there is a bit of bias but not actual discrimination.
An example would be the renovation of a Mosque.
The community is going to select contractors from the community.
The same is true of a Church.
In business, it is all about money.
If the Arabs have the good price and can do what you want, you are getting an Arabian built garage.
And, if I had somebody rip Koran and throw this in toilet, and I was there, I would have to deal with this.
n2ize
07-30-2007, 07:57 AM
Quote[/b] (K5FH @ July 29 2007,20:56)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,19:56)]Yet another ignorant 5 lander. Keep it coming!!
I've lived in NYC. #Have you lived there recently?
I lived in southern Connecticut off and on between 1990 and 2003. #I worked with quite a few New Yorkers and visited New York frequently. #Close enough.
Until I moved to that area from the South I had never seen the kind of racism and anti-Semitism that are rampant in the so-called "civilized" NYC area. #It's open, blantant, and disgusting. #Everybody publicly gives politically-correct lip service to "equality" and "diversity" but, in private, a much different attitude emerges.
But, then, you 2-land types are (by your own definition) so much more "civilized" and "tolerant" than us "ignorant 5 landers."
And you're a damn sight more hypocritical, too.
Quote[/b] ]
Until I moved to that area from the South I had never seen the kind of racism and anti-Semitism that are rampant in the so-called "civilized" NYC area.
Really ? I don't know who you lived with but I've lived here all my life and I have never seen the kind of racism and anti-semitism that you describe. There are a lot of people here and yes, you're gonna find some with bad attitudes who prejudge people, however, I haven't noticed those with attitudes around here to be any worst than other parts of the country that I've visited.
Quote[/b] ]
#It's open, blantant, and disgusting. #Everybody publicly gives politically-correct lip service to "equality" and "diversity" but, in private, a much different attitude emerges.
Really ? "Everybody" does ? Thats almost as bad as saying everyone in the south is a Klansman
Quote[/b] ]
But, then, you 2-land types are (by your own definition) so much more "civilized" and "tolerant" than us "ignorant 5 landers."
Really again ? Since when did region tag numbers define civilization ? Most 5 landers I've met who have been up this way have fond memories of the time they spent up here. Quite a few often ask me about places they have been and if they are still around and/or how they may have changed. I've never seen the kind of pre-judgemental attitudes that I find here on QRZ.