another insulin shock incident

[NC5P]

<a href="http://www.badcopnews.com/2007/07/27/5-million-claim-filed-against-redwood-city-california-police-after-police-mistook-mans-ins
ulin-shock-for-intoxication-and-beat-him/" target="_blank">Insulin Shock Lawsuit</a>

[wa8rti]

You do wonder why these people do not seem to have had a Medic Alert bracelet or other easily visible indicator of their condition.

[kd5kfl]

16% of Americans have diabetes or another endocrine system problem.

6% know they do.

[n6yg]

Not only do I hope he wins, I hope it hurts! Hopefully this time the judge in the case won't be crooked and justice will prevail. Furthermore they should fire the cops involved and ban them from ever working in law enforcement or public service ever again.

By the way
Perfect timing. I guess I will repost what I said before about another similar incident.

&quot;repost &quot;
Officers are trained in controlled take downs. Part of that training is being able to identify when a suspect is in shock.

When an untrained person goes into shock as a result of trauma or gut wrenching fear or this time diabetic coma their perception changes significantly.

More often then not they lose the ability for rational thought and usually respond by trying to escape anyone who is grabbing or touching them. More often then not they are un-aware of their surroundings, and of what's happing. More often then not the suspect can no longer identify who is a threat and who is not, Remember they are in shock! Their vision, and hearing changes to the point that they usually can't understand what is being said. This is further complicated by the fact that there is usually multiple officers YELLING the same orders. I have heard it described as being in in a very long tunnel with bad echoes listening to a bunch of hyenas all screaming at once. You cannot differentiate what direction the sounds are coming from or how many voices there are.

At this point a person's normal fight or flight instinct's kick in. That person is now in survival mode. They will instinctively fight anyone or anything who is trying to restrain them. Most of the time without ever realizing that is what they are doing. This is a very dangerous situation for the person in shock. Officers are trained in the proper way of dealing with this situation. Good officers follow their training Bad officers use this situation to justify beating the crap out of people, and blaming the resulting injury's on resisting arrest.

This case is a perfect example of bad cops purposely not following their training and using a situation they created as an excuse to beat the crap out of an innocent person.

This situation shows how shock and intoxication can appear similar.

[N3ATS]

Hypoglycemics are often mistaken as intoxicated subjects. The staggering gate, &quot;alcohol&quot; like smell on the breath, and many times combative and violent.

I used to work with a guy who could get like that.

[n2ize]

It's his own fault as far as I am concerned. Why did he assume a comnbative approach when the cops confronted him ? He was initially thrown out of the theatre but he was lucid enough to go back in. he was also lucid enough to take a combative stance against the officers.

It's not the cops job to pander to every sick person in the city. The cops have enough garbage to worry about.

[n6yg]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 28 2007,19:08)]It's his own fault as far as I am concerned. Why did he assume a comnbative approach when the cops confronted him ? He was initially thrown out of the theatre but he was lucid enough to go back in. he was also lucid enough to take a combative stance against the officers.

It's not the cops job to pander to every sick person in the city. The cops have enough garbage to worry about.
I know your smarter then that, your kidding right?? If he was in diabetic shock he had no idea what was happening or what was going on. Then as soon as someone grabbed him in a violent manner he instinctively went into survival mode. He had no idea what was going on thats why the charges where dropped

&quot;The District Attorney’s Office, which charged Burns with resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, dropped the charges in May after concluding the bodybuilder was not aware of what he was doing at the time of the incident.&quot;

Our streets and citizens are not law enforcements personal gang territory and punching bags I expect police officers to act in a professional manner and not automatically treat everyone as though they are murderous terrorist's. If that's to tough for them then as the old saying goes &quot;If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen&quot;

The police department screwed up again and now it's time to pay the piper. If the citizens in that county don't like their tax money being used to pay for expensive law suits then maybe the citizens should hold their police officers to a higher standard. As It stands right now justifying these officers actions is lowering the bar of professionalism. I think the average citizen already makes far to many excuses for poor officer conduct, its time to hold them accountable for their actions.

If they want to carry a gun and a badge and expect to be treated as part of an an elite group far above the average citizen then they better dam well act like it.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

I would hope that the police WOULD be trained to understand when it is time to call in the medics.
I avoid most police officers like the plague, more and more act like some sort of military warrior.
To serve and protect?
Who?

[kd5kfl]

Quote[/b] ]Hypoglycemics are often mistaken as intoxicated subjects. The staggering gait, &quot;alcohol&quot; like smell on the breath, and many times combative and violent.

Hypoglycemia: You know you're in trouble when you wake up with a headache. If you stay very still, it's just a headache. It feels like a 3&quot; wide, 1/8&quot; thick bar was driven into your skull, vertically, behind your eyes. Move your head fore and aft, it feels like the steel bar stays still and your head moves through it. Turn your head, it feels like a 50 horse outboard is spinning a prop in your head. You can feel yourself getting stupid. 40 points disappear off your IQ. You wake up exhausted.

The morning routine is brutal. It takes ten minutes to make it to the bathroom, which is attached to the bedroom. Fifteen minutes to get dressed. The cure is not a candy bar. 2 eggs scrambled brings you back from the dead. Not fully functional, just arrests the downhill slide. You need to eat a bowl of mixed vegetables and get more sleep to get to a dragged out fatigued level of functional. You will not be able to fill out a 1040EZ. Do not operate anything sharper than a ping pong ball or harder than Nerf.

Diabetic coma - much better. An intensely sleepy condition. A very pleasant sleep. 15 minutes of intense sleep, and you wake up ready to take the bar exam, just like that.

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 28 2007,21:08)]It's his own fault as far as I am concerned. Why did he assume a comnbative approach when the cops confronted him ? He was initially thrown out of the theatre but he was lucid enough to go back in. he was also lucid enough to take a combative stance against the officers.

It's not the cops job to pander to every sick person in the city. The cops have enough garbage to worry about.
I doubt very much he even knew how he was acting, and probably didn't remember most of it after the fact.

The fellow I know use to get the same way. Go absolutely ape (throw things, curse you out, etc.) and not remember a damn thing after he recovered.

This fellow needs to better monitor his insulin/sugar levels in the future.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 28 2007,19:46)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 28 2007,19:08)]It's his own fault as far as I am concerned. Why did he assume a comnbative approach when the cops confronted him ? He was initially thrown out of the theatre but he was lucid enough to go back in. he was also lucid enough to take a combative stance against the officers.

It's not the cops job to pander to every sick person in the city. The cops have enough garbage to worry about.
I know your smarter then that, your kidding right?? #If he was in diabetic shock he had no idea what was happening or what was going on. Then as soon as someone grabbed him in a violent manner he instinctively went into survival mode. He had no idea what was going on thats why the charges where dropped

&quot;The District Attorney’s Office, which charged Burns with resisting arrest and assaulting an officer, dropped the charges in May after concluding the bodybuilder was not aware of what he was doing at the time of the incident.&quot;

Our streets and citizens are not law enforcements personal gang territory and punching bags I expect police officers to act in a professional manner and not automatically treat everyone as though they are murderous terrorist's. If that's to tough for them then as the old saying goes &quot;If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen&quot;

The police department screwed up again and now it's time to pay the piper. If the citizens in that county don't like their tax money being used to pay for expensive law suits then maybe the citizens should hold their police officers to a higher standard. #As It stands right now justifying these officers actions is lowering the bar of professionalism. #I think the average citizen already makes far to many excuses for poor officer conduct, #its time to hold them accountable for their actions.

If they want to carry a gun and a badge and expect to be treated as part of an an elite group far above the average citizen then they better dam well #act like it.
It could have been one of two things. One possibility could have been a routine head bust and this guy just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. That happened to a friend of mine. He got his head busted in, he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and irked the wrong cops by his presence.

More likely the cops figured they were dealing with a belligerent drunk. The last thing the cops need is to start taking guff from a drunk who is aggressive, nasty, abusive, and is making a miserable job harder. Being drunk and nasty to the cops is a sure fire way to get your arse kicked but good. The cops probably figured it was 99% likely the guy was just drunk and was acting up. So they responded accordingly. They had no way of knowing he was sick and in need of help. He should have some was of alerting the cops to this fact. I am sure the cops apologized for the inconvenience caused.

The cops have gotta be tough, otherwise they're gonna get abused. They need to show an upper hand and make it clear ahead of time that they are not going to take any guff from Mr Joe on the street and they'll bust arse if need be. #While this situation was sad and the cops should have used more discretion there was no way of knowing. Hopefully they'll get additional training to teach them to recognize this type of medical attack from some bum who has too much to drink and decides to pour on #the #attitude.

bear in mind I'm not trying to defend what the cops did here. In this case it was wrong. I'm just trying to express what I think went down. But it still shouldn't have happened.

[n6yg]

Well IZY;
While a lot of what you said makes sense, I do have some issues with some of your comments

Quote[/b] ]They had no way of knowing he was sick and in need of help
They are supposed to be professionals, public safety is in the job description. so It's there job to know!

Quote[/b] ] making a miserable job harder
Sorry no sympathy from me! They chose the job, no one forced it on them. Furthermore if they want the benefit of being part of a self proclaimed elite group then they need to take the good with the bad its their choice.


Quote[/b] ]The cops have gotta be tough, otherwise they're gonna get abused
I disagree, you catch more flies with honey then vinegar. I have been in many part's of this world, and I have seen law enforcement agency who where much more professional. Where officers actually treated people with respect. Unlike here in the US where the police treat everyone the same. Like criminals!! As far as law enforcement in this country is concerned Everyone is a criminal. The one's without arrest records just haven't been caught yet.

Then of course I have been in country's where its been far worse. But remember we are supposed to be the greatest nation on earth. So I hold our police agency's and officers to a higher standard. Not taking the time to properly evaluate a situation before brutally beating an innocent person is completely unacceptable. What if that was one of your kids. How would you feel then. Those officers could have spent a few min evaluating the man

A few simple questions before the head bashing might have prevented this

How a professional would handle it.

Hello Sir. how are you today.
I'm sorry but we have had a few complaints, how are you feeling today are you sick ??
You don't look well have you been drinking are you taking any medication that we should be aware of?
Hmmm Well I really don't feel comfortable with your behavior sir for your own safety I'd like to ask you to step outside with me, I would really like to have the paramedics take a quick look at you and make sure your all right.
If he's drunk arrest him if he's sick then you possibly saved someone's life. job well done.

How its actually done. 3 or 4 cops stomp or barge in, usually in a highly aggressive and intimidating manner. Batons drawn, hands on sidearm. Officers 1, 2 and 3 bark barely understandable orders for the suspect to GET DOWN ON THE GROUND, GET DOWN ON THE GROUND, NOW!! NOW!! NOW!! Meanwhile officer 4 sneaks around behind suspect. When suspect does not immediately comply officer 4 violently tackles suspect in an attempt to take him to the ground. If the take down is not instantaneously successful officers 1, 2 and 3 proceed to beat the hell out of the suspect with their batons. Mean while to make it look as though the officers are trying to be fair they continually bark orders at the suspect not resist, but what you don't see is the poor suspect is not resisting how can he be he is in major pain because they have his hands twisted behind his back.

End result suspect finds out for the first time that he suffers from adult onset diabetes. Unfortunately as a result of the officers violent take down he suffers permanent nerve damage and his career is over.

[K3XR]

POLICE HATERS UNITE!!!

[kf6rdn]

I'm not exactly a police hater, most deserve respect. The ones in THIS area don't, lazy no good, donut munching.. sorry, I digress..

How the hell is a cop supposed to discern a medical condition? They are trained in law enforcement, not medicine.
APPARENTLY I say apparently as we only know this snippet of the story, but at face value, &quot;intoxicated guys was thrown out of theatre, which theatre has every right to, intoxicated guy tried to re-enter the theatre thus breaking the law, cops attempt arrest, intoxicated guy resists&quot;.

That is ALL they know, assuming, as is mentioned this condition results in intoxication effects, including breath smell, you can't expect them to know this.

Now you have guys attempting to subdue a VERY strong man, it's GOING to get ugly.

Again, going at story's face value.

I would also be curious if Burns was in a pre contest stage, the dieting is intense, low carbs, including sugars, and days before the contest low water. All that adds alot of stress, most bodybuilders get very irritable at this point.
And NO steroids has NOTHING to do with that! &quot;roid rages&quot; are media overhyped BS.

Anyway, still cops have no way of knowing that either, they just see a big, beligerent dude. If he's susecptable to that, maybe he should either hang with a buddy that knows, or stay inside when he's in that condition. I dont think a bracelet would help, I dont think they are going to stop and read it.

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (kd5kfl @ July 28 2007,23:05)]Quote[/b] ]Hypoglycemics are often mistaken as intoxicated subjects. #The staggering gait, &quot;alcohol&quot; like smell on the breath, and many times combative and violent.

Hypoglycemia: You know you're in trouble when you wake up with a headache. If you stay very still, it's just a headache. It feels like a 3&quot; wide, 1/8&quot; thick bar was driven into your skull, vertically, behind your eyes. Move your head fore and aft, it feels like the steel bar stays still and your head moves through it. Turn your head, it feels like a 50 horse outboard is spinning a prop in your head. You can feel yourself getting stupid. 40 points disappear off your IQ. You wake up exhausted.

The morning routine is brutal. It takes ten minutes to make it to the bathroom, which is attached to the bedroom. Fifteen minutes to get dressed. The cure is not a candy bar. 2 eggs scrambled brings you back from the dead. Not fully functional, just arrests the downhill slide. You need to eat a bowl of mixed vegetables and get more sleep to get to a dragged out fatigued level of functional. You will not be able to fill out a 1040EZ. Do not operate anything sharper than a ping pong ball or harder than Nerf.

Diabetic coma - much better. An intensely sleepy condition. A very pleasant sleep. 15 minutes of intense sleep, and you wake up ready to take the bar exam, just like that.
Your post is full of misinformation, some of it dangerously incorrect. I'd love to know your source.

Every diabetic's symptoms are different. In my case, I get the headache when my sugar begins the rapid rise after proper treatment.

Proper treatment is ingestion of fast-acting sugar such as orange juice, apple juice, hard candy like Life Savers or glucose tabs. Slow acting sugars like chocolate, milk, etc are not fast enough for use in this sort of emergency.
Quote[/b] ]2 eggs scrambled brings you back from the dead. Not fully functional, just arrests the downhill slide. You need to eat a bowl of mixed vegetables and get more sleep to get to a dragged out fatigued level of functional.

This misinformation is dangerous and can result in the death of any diabetic in a hypoglycemic episode if applied. Eggs have no carbohydrate and as such will have no effect on blood sugar. Vegetables do have a low carb value, far too little to be used as a treatment for hypoglycemia.

Your description of the inability to function while hypoglycemia are accurate, with the situation worsening the lower the blood sugar drops below about 65-70.

Quote[/b] ]Diabetic coma - much better. An intensely sleepy condition. A very pleasant sleep. 15 minutes of intense sleep, and you wake up ready to take the bar exam, just like that.

Hyperglycemia rarely ends in this manner. Once a person's blood sugar rises hish enough to cause a loss of consciouness, that person will die without treatment.


I have been on both sides of the issue in Califonia. I've been an insulin dependent diabetic for over 33 years, since age 12. I can assure you some diabetics are combative. I have been at times. The symptoms of hypoglycemia, short of a fingerstick blood test, are so similar to intoxication, or even moreso, a drug trip, I can honestly see how the police were forced into the action they took.

As a correction officer in three New Jersey state prisons for 24 years, I did my share of fighting with inmates under the influence of various mood altering substances. And I've fought inmates I later learned were diabetic. When you're doing your job consciously and dealing with a bad situation, controlling to aggressor and ending the threat is the first task. And unless the inmate was known to us to be diabetic, we rarely had any reason to know he wasn't just another agressive inmate. And I AM diabetic!

The police chief's admission that his officers had no training in this sort of situation is distressing. But no matter, the officers on the scene were presented with a combative 207 pound bodybuilder and very likely could not have known he was diabetic. Their options were limited. The aggressor, whatever his reason for being same, had to be brought under control. Being diabetic does not give one carte blanche to cause chaos.

I will agree, monitoring one's blood sugar is imperetive. I check mine 8-10 times a day AND no longer have a drivers license. Wearing a medical alert (I have a true &quot;Medic Alert&quot;) bracelet is another obvious &quot;must have.&quot; If the officers on the scene had seen one, this situation might have gone differently althought they were still obligated to control the subject.

This is a bad deal all the way around. Unfortunately I don't see how the officers could have acted differently. The states' attorney however did do the right thing dropping the charges.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 28 2007,20:08)]It's his own fault as far as I am concerned. Why did he assume a comnbative approach when the cops confronted him ? He was initially thrown out of the theatre but he was lucid enough to go back in. he was also lucid enough to take a combative stance against the officers.

It's not the cops job to pander to every sick person in the city. The cops have enough garbage to worry about.
I'm diabetic. I carry glucose tablets with me at all times. I have been in a similar situation. A person with diabetes can lose situational awareness if the imbalance of blood glucose (either not enough or too much) is not taken care of immediately.

I would post what YOU suffer from, but your post speaks volumes in itself.

Troll.

[n2ize]

2 problems I have witnessed foirst hand with cops. Some cops are too fast to start a headbust. I have seen several incidences where a headbust breaks out when and where it could have been handled without the violence. There is no excuse for this excessive, heavy handed approach to police work. there are times when a headbust is in order.

Too many times the excuse &quot;he/she was on drugs&quot; is used as an excuse for a routine headbust. Different people respond differently to different drugs. Some drugs act as stimulants and may hype up a person and make them act excessivly violent, particularly if and when the person is violent and unstable to begin with. However, many other drugs tend to have a depressive and sedating effect and do not nessesarilly turn the user into a super invincible criminal superman. All too often the excuse &quot;he was on drugs or drunk&quot; is used to justify questionable police behavior. Unfortunately all too often society lets such an excuse work.

[n6yg]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ July 29 2007,04:50)]POLICE HATERS UNITE!!!
I am far from a police hater, I just think we need to hold our officers to a much higher standard than what is considered acceptable today. I feel the current requirements to wear a badge and carry a gun don't reflect the level of professionalism that such responsibility carries. It seems as though far to many who have pass the requirements are not only unprofessional they are unsuitable, unstable and should be under direct psychiatric care.

I'm not going to drop names but the fact is a very good and old friend, a man whom with I have gone to lunch and a movie with every other Wednesday for more years then I care to admit to is a retired sheriff. Not a Deputy but the retired Sheriff of a large California county. Not only do we do lunch and a movie every other Wednesday but his family and ours gets together for dinner, drinks and dancing once a month. I knew him before he was elected and we maintained our good friendship throughout his career. He never felt as though my views where anti police in fact many of my views are a result of our personal conversations as he vented work related problems. Many of my opinions are his as well.

[kd5kfl]

Quote[/b] ]Your post is full of misinformation, some of it dangerously incorrect. I'd love to know your source.

The source of information about my headaches is my head. When it aches.

Quote[/b] ]Proper treatment is ingestion of fast-acting sugar such as orange juice, apple juice, hard candy like Life Savers or glucose tabs.

Never did a thing for me. I do keep a can of mixed fruit around.

Quote[/b] ]Hyperglycemia rarely ends in this manner. Once a person's blood sugar rises high enough to cause a loss of consciouness, that person will die without treatment.

A coworker and I both have the same results. Nodding out after ingesting too much food. Apparently most of America gets the same condition, 3rd Thursday in November.

[ab1ga]

What happened was truly unfortunate for all those involved, and it may turn out that the police did not respond appropriately, but even as a diabetic subject to hypoglycemic attacks I'm not sure how such cases should be treated.

Normal blood glucose level is in the low 80's, and the body tries to maintain that level fairly closely. When it starts to drop, it converts stored carbs, then fats, and tells the brain to start looking for food.

So far, so good. But let's say there's no food around. Then the body will start digesting its own muscle and finally internal organs to keep the glucose level at the magic number, while at the same time letting the brain know that death by starvation is becoming a possibility.

Taking too much insulin speeds things up, pushing the blood glucose level to a value which demands immediate attention from the brain. If it happens really fast, you crash before you get a chance to do anything. But if the drop isn't too fast, or too low, your reptilian brain thinks you are starving to death and you get really cranky looking for something to kill and eat. I've seen some very gentle, mild mannered people turn into ogres when they missed their proper mealtime. I myself, after waking up with the cold sweats, wobbly knees, and bad attitude, once killed and ate an entire, new box of Grape-Nuts, ignoring my wife's cautions against intemperance. (Later that day, the Grape-Nuts took their revenge. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).

Enough of the long preamble, my point is that under the wrong circumstances, diabetics -can- become hostile, aggressive, unreasonable threats to people around them, just like a belligerent drunk or druggie. It's true that a can of soda or a glucose tablet may be all that it takes to make them human again, but how do you know when to try, and how do you squeeze a candy bar between the teeth of someone who'd rather bite off one of your fingers? It's not widely known that the little glucometers which are now standard diabetic issue were originally much larger and developed to help emergency personnel identify diabetic shock rather than assume intoxication.

Given that it's hard to tell from a distance whether the culprit is alcohol or insulin, and given that at that moment it doesn't really matter anyway, it's hard to decide how to treat these situations. The best approach would be for diabetics to remain diligent about their glucose levels for yet another reason, for police to be taught about a large and increasing fraction of the people they protect and serve, and for everybody to be a bit more willing to offer and accept sincere apologies when things go wrong.

[n6yg]

Quote[/b] (kd5kfl @ July 29 2007,17:25)]
A coworker and I both have the same results. Nodding out after ingesting too much food. Apparently most of America gets the same condition, 3rd Thursday in November.
Oh No! You did not just bring that up.
I have a brother in law who without fail is out cold with in 10 min of finishing a meal. And I mean out cold! I got so tired of supporting his happy lazy ass that I kicked out of the house and made him live in an old van behind the barn. I thought for sure this would humble him into looking for work. Last Time I saw him he was running down the street half dressed. Of course the baseball bat in my hand probably had something to do with it. The worst part was I actually had to pay the prostitute to leave. After that I went shopping for a new bed. Yeah that's right came home in the middle of the day and caught him with a hooker in My BED. that was 12 years ago and he's never been back.

What where we talking about ?? Oh yeah why is it some people as they get older just can't stay awake after they eat?

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (kd5kfl @ July 29 2007,20:25)]Quote[/b] ]Hyperglycemia rarely ends in this manner. #Once a person's blood sugar rises high enough to cause a loss of consciouness, that person will die without treatment.

A coworker and I both have the same results. Nodding out after ingesting too much food. Apparently most of America gets the same condition, 3rd Thursday in November.
The third Thursday of November has nothing to do with diabetic hyperglycemia.

A true diabetic coma results from several days to a week or more of high - 450+ glucose readings. That is not merely ingesting too much food. There is a big difference.

AB1GA, in 33 years of having Type I diabetes, I'd never heard nor thought of the symptoms in the way you describe. Your theory makes perfect sense and your solutions are simply common sense.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 29 2007,18:02)]Quote[/b] (kd5kfl @ July 29 2007,17:25)]
A coworker and I both have the same results. Nodding out after ingesting too much food. Apparently most of America gets the same condition, 3rd Thursday in November.
Oh No! You did not just bring that up.
I have a brother in law who without fail is out cold with in 10 min of finishing a meal. #And I mean out cold! I got so tired of supporting his happy lazy ass that I kicked out of the house and made him live in an old van behind the barn. I thought for sure this would humble him into looking for work. Last Time I saw him he was running down the street half dressed. Of course the baseball bat in my hand probably had something to do with it. The worst part was I actually had to pay the prostitute to leave. After that I went shopping for a new bed. Yeah that's right came home in the middle of the day and caught him with a hooker in My BED. that was 12 years ago and he's never been back.

What where we talking about ?? Oh yeah why is it some people as they get older just can't stay awake after they eat?
That's nasty. I mean coming home with a hooker is not so bad in and of itself. But using SOMEONE ELSE'S BED ?? That is pretty nasty. The least he could have done is bought himself one of those cheap inflatable floaty mattresses or... like the guy I saw in back of an apartment building I once lived in. I heard some racket out the back of the building coming through the kitchen window, I looked into the rear yard at 2:00am and saw some dude getting it on with one of the local hookers in the rear yard...the guy was leaning back smack dab on top of a heap of garbage bags while she was doing whatever she was doing to him... right on top of the rat infested trash in a litter strewn yard. That guys really got a lotta class.