View Full Version : New Foundation License for US/Canada
vk3pb
07-28-2007, 02:17 AM
Hi all
Some readers will be aware that the UK and Australia have introduced a new class of Licence called the Foundation licence which is an entry level licence giving 10 watts of power on a range of bands on HF, VHF and UHF.
The response here in Australia has been extraodinary and as a result the number of hams in net terms is now growing in Australia (significantly). Some readers will have seen the interview I conducted with the Wireless Institute of Australia on this subject (see Amateurlogic.tv episode 14).
I am curious to know - is the mood in the US and Canada right for change ie the introduction of a Foundation License? How do Amateur in these countries feel about the idea of a new entry level license that can be gotten in a weekend?
I was at a club do today and it was interesting to note the number of new Foundation Class licensees who were the female partners of existing hams. I suspect that if we can attract many young women into the hobby the guys will follow!
cheers Peter vk3pb
We already have one. It's called the Tech.
We are going to have a new one called...no test
They are giving them away at Wally world
Just show up on Saturday mornings
kn4ds
07-28-2007, 02:34 AM
Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ July 27 2007,22:25)]We already have one. It's called the Tech.
We are going to have a new one called...no test
They are giving them away at Wally world
Just show up on Saturday mornings
I have it on good authority that a petition is being prepared that will propose removing testing completely for all but the Extra class.
We will see how this plays out.
That petition will be likely denied. It doesn't jive with ITU regs.
vk3pb
07-28-2007, 03:19 AM
The Foundation License still requires testing but at a relatively easy standard. It can be learned and gotten in a weekend.
cheers Peter
VE7NOT
07-28-2007, 03:38 AM
I doubt the US is going this way. I see the FCC trying hard to get hams off vhf and uhf and more onto hf.
For Canada RAC is considering a foundation license. Most are in agreement with it.
WA9SVD
07-28-2007, 03:54 AM
Wer HAD such a license class, known as Novice, but the FCC decided they wanted to REDUCE the number of license classes, so I don't see them starting another license class. Our Tech is the entry level exam, and serves approximately the same purpose as your "Foundation Class" licenses...
VO1GXG
07-28-2007, 03:55 AM
I think the Canadian basic is fine , allows access to VHF and UHF. If they get higher then 80% they get HF or they can upgrade to Advanced. I currently like it . If they decide to introduce a new license class in Canada is better not mess with my license! worked hard for it !
WA9SVD
07-28-2007, 03:56 AM
Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ July 27 2007,19:34)]Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ July 27 2007,22:25)]We already have one. It's called the Tech.
We are going to have a new one called...no test
They are giving them away at Wally world
Just show up on Saturday mornings
I have it on good authority that a petition is being prepared that will propose removing testing completely for all but the Extra class.
We will see how this plays out.
And if NTI gets their way, it will be only a matter of a few months before the formation of NLI. (No License International.) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Quote[/b] (aa9ya @ July 27 2007,19:25)]
Australia has 3 levels of license the lowest being Foundation, the US has 3 levels of license, the lowest being Tech. It's the same thing. 3 levels are more than enough. There is no need to add a fourth level to the US licensing scheme, especially since the Foundation class in Oz was partly based on the success of the Technician class in the US!
vk3pb
07-28-2007, 04:09 AM
I know that the US is losing Amateurs every year with the greying of the population.
See
http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....40;st=0 (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=113940;st=0)
Is the situation the same in Canada? Is the ham populaton growing or declining in net terms?
Maybe the Foundation license isn't the solution for the US but if there isn't some change soon we VKs will have few or no N etc calls to talk to. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
cheers Peter
WA2ZDY
07-28-2007, 02:33 PM
Quote[/b] (VE7NOT @ July 27 2007,23:38)]I doubt the US is going this way. I see the FCC trying hard to get hams off vhf and uhf and more onto hf.
This has been mentioned here before. I agree with this feeling. FCC would LOVE to be able to auction off our 2m and 440MHz bands, along with the higher one.
Commercial users don't want HF spectrum anymore. They want space for personal communicators and LEO satellite links.
I doubt that the FCC will do away with 2m entirely. Maybe cut it in half like it has been done elsewhere.
440 I could see going away.
They're supposedly going to get a big windfall from the DTV conversion though.
In the no code R&O, the FCC has already said that they see no need for a novice license at this time.
Ladies and gentlemen, we had a novice license, and it was taken away.
I see us in the future having just ONE class of license - an amateur radio license, and the test roughly equivalent to General class.
Quote[/b] (vk3pb @ July 27 2007,19:17)]Hi all
Some readers will be aware that the UK and Australia have introduced a new class of Licence called the Foundation licence which is an entry level licence giving 10 watts of power on a range of bands on HF, VHF and UHF.
The response here in Australia has been extraodinary and as a result the number of hams in net terms is now growing in Australia (significantly). Some readers will have seen the interview I conducted with the Wireless Institute of Australia on this subject (see Amateurlogic.tv episode 14).
I am curious to know - is the mood in the US and Canada right for change ie the introduction of a Foundation License? How do Amateur in these countries feel about the idea of a new entry level license that can be gotten in a weekend?
I was at a club do today and it was interesting to note the number of new Foundation Class licensees who were the female partners of existing hams. I suspect that if we can attract many young women into the hobby the guys will follow!
cheers Peter vk3pb
Hi Peter, well I see this topic deteriorated really fast.
I think the foundation class license is a great idea.
In fact I worked one of your country men with the new foundation class license just last night on 40 meters. Great signal for 10 watts from Victoria to California. From what I understand he was using a home brew wire beam.
I'm curious as to how the higher class licenses are treating the new foundation class hams? Is there animosity towards them? Are they being berated like the new hams here in the states are Or are they being accepted and mentored?
Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air.
Anyhow I'm still impressed with the Foundation class ham I talked to last night. 10 watts and a wire beam... I gave him about a 44 signal report. I was running about 800 watts and he gave me a 59+ If I would have had time I would have liked to drop my power to see how low we could have gone and still maintained the QSO
Anyhow looking forward to many more QSO's with them.
WA9SVD
07-29-2007, 02:11 AM
Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 28 2007,08:34)]Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air.
I fear you are believing what is expressed by a VERY small number of OF's here on the ZED as what actually takes place (or rather, assuming what DOESN'T take place ) on the air.
There are few "real hams" who won't talk to anyone because they are "newbies" or came into Amateur Radio after the Morse proficiency was eliminated form the license requirements here in the U.S.
But there ARE many Amateurs, new and old alike, that would resent a "One Class" license. But we ALREADY have a "Foundation License," which is merely known by a different name: Technician. It's our entry level license. THAT'S why we don't need another license class. The FCC already did away with the Novice license, and they are unlikely to create ANOTHER Amateur license class.
wa9cwx
07-29-2007, 02:34 AM
Let us know about the quality of the Amateur service, as time goes on, with this new license.
It will be interesting to see how this new situation raises the overall vitality and quality of your Amateur Radio Service, as new blood and exiting and diverse new enthusiasts join your ranks.
It has certainly enriched our ranks...
Things sound much different on VHF than when I started, several years ago, and now, the changes are sweeping our HF bands, too !
Frank
Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ July 28 2007,19:11)]Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 28 2007,08:34)]Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air.
I fear you are believing what is expressed by a VERY small number of OF's here on the ZED as what actually takes place (or rather, assuming what DOESN'T take place ) on the air.
There are few "real hams" who won't talk to anyone because they are "newbies" or came into Amateur Radio after the Morse proficiency was eliminated form the license requirements here in the U.S.
But there ARE many Amateurs, new and old alike, that would resent a "One Class" license. But we ALREADY have a "Foundation License," which is merely known by a different name: Technician. It's our entry level license. THAT'S why we don't need another license class. The FCC already did away with the Novice license, and they are unlikely to create ANOTHER Amateur license class.
While I really don't know a lot about the Foundation class license, I am impressed. Apparently they have HF phone privileges on 40 meters, only 10 watts input to the antenna I'm guessing no limit on ERP. I think this is a better idea. It lets people get their feet wet in the real world of ham radio. I can see how after a few months at 10 watts on 40 meters you would really want to upgrade. Giving them only 10 watts is going to force people to learn good operating practices, learn about propagation and learn how to maximizing the antenna system. This way they help mold good operators. And the new opps can at least sample what HF is all about without investing in an expensive station. I don't see how a few 100 kc of 10 meter phone privileges compares or for that matter how it's going to entice the NCT to study for an upgrade. The Foundation class license just seems like a better approach.
VK2AKG
07-29-2007, 02:34 PM
Quote[/b] ]I'm curious as to how the higher class licenses are treating the new foundation class hams? Is there animosity towards them? Are they being berated like the new hams here in the states are Or are they being accepted and mentored? Not only are they being accepted, they are being actively welcomed and encouraged.
Quote[/b] ]Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air. How very short sighted.
WA9SVD
07-29-2007, 02:43 PM
Quote[/b] (VK2AKG @ July 29 2007,07:34)][
Quote[/b] ]Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air. How very short sighted.
Yes, VERY shortsighted. But only a few (however vocal) express such a sentiment, and fewer still truly act that way on the air. If that's the way they feel and act, they don't deserve an Amateur Radio license. At one time, there was something called the "Amateur Code." I don't recall it saying anything about not talking to those with a lower class license than your own; in fact, a person that acts that way is about the lowest class possible.
Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ July 29 2007,07:43)]Quote[/b] (VK2AKG @ July 29 2007,07:34)][
Quote[/b] ]Personally I don't see how something like a foundation class license could work here. The animosity older hams have towards newly licensed hams here in the states has degenerated to the point where older hams alienate new hams and refuse to talk to them on the air. How very short sighted.
Yes, VERY shortsighted. But only a few (however vocal) express such a sentiment, and fewer still truly act that way on the air. If that's the way they feel and act, they don't deserve an Amateur Radio license. At one time, there was something called the "Amateur Code." I don't recall it saying anything about not talking to those with a lower class license than your own; in fact, a person that acts that way is about the lowest class possible.
I have seen it first hand, Multiple times. I have watched my son be completely ignored and even keyed up on by older hams. Older hams who I even knew, They had no idea it was my son until I got on the air and straighten out the situation. Funny to watch them back peddle. How petty refusing to break for a station and then keying up on his call. These are old timers pulling this garbage, the same type of garbage they accuse the new NCT of bringing to the hobby.
My son's second contact on ham radio was a nasty response by an older ham, once again someone I had heard on the air many times before. What are they stupid don't they know that dad might be right their listening. I monitor my son's on air activity all the time and he's very careful because he does not want to embarrass me.
The day my son's license showed up in the FCC database some old timer told my son to get THE HELL of the air "your not on QRZ" I had to get on the radio and remind him QRZ is not the FCC and the only official source is the FCC database. After that he simply chose to keyup every time my son and I tried to use the radio. If that wasn't bad enough the old fart was drunk.. He should have known better he is a "know code ham"
I have let my son call CQ on my rig with me as control operator on 20, 40, and 17 meters. once again second or 3rd contact was a nasty response from an older ham. Nastily accusing him of playing with dads radio.
So yes it does happen on the radio. But I will say that the number of people who have been exceedingly supportive of a new young ham has been far greater and far out numbered the few nasty old timers with chips on their shoulders.
It's just a shame that in a technical hobby that is supposed to be filled with above average intelligence we see so much knuckle dragging Neanderthal mentality
Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 29 2007,06:28)]While I really don't know a lot about the Foundation class license, I am impressed. Apparently they have HF phone privileges on 40 meters, only 10 watts input to the antenna I'm guessing no limit on ERP. I think this is a better idea. It lets people get their feet wet in the real world of ham radio. I can see how after a few months at 10 watts on 40 meters you would really want to upgrade. Giving them only 10 watts is going to force people to learn good operating practices, learn about propagation and learn how to maximizing the antenna system. This way they help mold good operators. And the new opps can at least sample what HF is all about without investing in an expensive station. I don't see how a few 100 kc of 10 meter phone privileges compares or for that matter how it's going to entice the NCT to study for an upgrade. The Foundation class license just seems like a better approach.
You are right about one thing, you don't know a lot about the Foundation class license (I assume you're talking about UK foundation.)
Anyone can lie and say they're using 10 watts, just so they keep OfCom off their backs.
Quite a few of my friends are UK amateurs, (I also have a UK license) and they know that many foundation licensees are not going to and simply do not obey the 10w power limit. Some aren't even aware of how to turn down the power!
I mean, who exactly is going to catch them?
Mind you, there are some honest folks out there, but it is too easy to break the rules and not get caught.
Now, what I can agree with is the foundation training course.
Make a training course mandatory to get a license in the USA, and ensure that new licensees know how to operate properly before going on air... It will also force a lot of folks to be elmered.
But that 10 watt power limit nonsense simply isn't going to fly...
Doubt me? Think I'm talking rubbish?
Do you obey the speed limit all the time, every time?
Been honest on all of your tax returns (don't answer that one, lest an IRS employee is browsing)?
As a teenager, were you always honest about your age?
Your answers are awaited. OVER..
KA4DPO
07-29-2007, 10:38 PM
RJ is right, who's going to police the power output of these stations.
Hey 10 watts and a good antenna will net you a lot of DX on CW. My first novice transmitter put out less than that and I nearly worked all continents with it in a couple of months.
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,15:17)]Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 29 2007,06:28)]While I really don't know a lot about the Foundation class license, I am impressed. Apparently they have HF phone privileges on 40 meters, only 10 watts input to the antenna I'm guessing no limit on ERP. I think this is a better idea. It lets people get their feet wet in the real world of ham radio. I can see how after a few months at 10 watts on 40 meters you would really want to upgrade. Giving them only 10 watts is going to force people to learn good operating practices, learn about propagation and learn how to maximizing the antenna system. This way they help mold good operators. And the new opps can at least sample what HF is all about without investing in an expensive station. I don't see how a few 100 kc of 10 meter phone privileges compares or for that matter how it's going to entice the NCT to study for an upgrade. The Foundation class license just seems like a better approach.
You are right about one thing, you don't know a lot about the Foundation class license (I assume you're talking about UK foundation.)
Anyone can lie and say they're using 10 watts, just so they keep OfCom off their backs.
Quite a few of my friends are UK amateurs, (I also have a UK license) and they know that many foundation licensees are not going to and simply do not obey the 10w power limit. Some aren't even aware of how to turn down the power!
I mean, who exactly is going to catch them?
Mind you, there are some honest folks out there, but it is too easy to break the rules and not get caught.
Now, what I can agree with is the foundation training course.
Make a training course mandatory to get a license in the USA, and ensure that new licensees know how to operate properly before going on air... It will also force a lot of folks to be elmered.
But that 10 watt power limit nonsense simply isn't going to fly...
Doubt me? Think I'm talking rubbish?
Do you obey the speed limit all the time, every time?
Been honest on all of your tax returns (don't answer that one, lest an IRS employee is browsing)?
As a teenager, were you always honest about your age?
Your answers are awaited. OVER..
We all know dam well there are a good number of hams here in the states who use a fair bit more then the 1.5kw legal limit. If I was to apply your logic where exactly would we stand.
Ever heard the old saying "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
There will always be people who break the rules. And not all of them will get caught.
I have never been one to punish everyone or reject a good idea because a few people break the rules.
Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 29 2007,18:17)]Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,15:17)]Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 29 2007,06:28)]While I really don't know a lot about the Foundation class license, I am impressed. Apparently they have HF phone privileges on 40 meters, only 10 watts input to the antenna I'm guessing no limit on ERP. I think this is a better idea. It lets people get their feet wet in the real world of ham radio. I can see how after a few months at 10 watts on 40 meters you would really want to upgrade. Giving them only 10 watts is going to force people to learn good operating practices, learn about propagation and learn how to maximizing the antenna system. This way they help mold good operators. And the new opps can at least sample what HF is all about without investing in an expensive station. I don't see how a few 100 kc of 10 meter phone privileges compares or for that matter how it's going to entice the NCT to study for an upgrade. The Foundation class license just seems like a better approach.
You are right about one thing, you don't know a lot about the Foundation class license (I assume you're talking about UK foundation.)
Anyone can lie and say they're using 10 watts, just so they keep OfCom off their backs.
Quite a few of my friends are UK amateurs, (I also have a UK license) and they know that many foundation licensees are not going to and simply do not obey the 10w power limit. Some aren't even aware of how to turn down the power!
I mean, who exactly is going to catch them?
Mind you, there are some honest folks out there, but it is too easy to break the rules and not get caught.
Now, what I can agree with is the foundation training course.
Make a training course mandatory to get a license in the USA, and ensure that new licensees know how to operate properly before going on air... It will also force a lot of folks to be elmered.
But that 10 watt power limit nonsense simply isn't going to fly...
Doubt me? Think I'm talking rubbish?
Do you obey the speed limit all the time, every time?
Been honest on all of your tax returns (don't answer that one, lest an IRS employee is browsing)?
As a teenager, were you always honest about your age?
Your answers are awaited. OVER..
We all know dam well there are a good number of hams here in the states who use a fair bit more then the 1.5kw legal limit. If I was to apply your logic where exactly would we stand.
Ever heard the old saying "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
There will always be people who break the rules. And not all of them will get caught.
I have never been one to punish everyone or reject a good idea because a few people break the rules.
Well, it is a heck of a lot easier to obey the 1.5kW limit, because that needs an amp and an antenna system capable of high power.
But exceeding the 10 watt limit is as simple as just turning the knob, or not turning it down.
The novice license was a great idea, too bad the FCC decided it wasn't necessary (much like the code test, but I digress...) and I highly doubt we're going back to those days.
We are really headed towards one class of license - an Amateur Radio License. That is the way it is in most of the world. Either you have a license for all bands, or you don't. That would be the simplest thing. It is practically there already as people are gravitating towards Extra class in droves.
Incidentally, it is not "a few" M3's (foundation) breaking the rules. It is a lot, from what I've heard.
W5HTW
07-30-2007, 02:48 AM
The US foundation license is called the "Double Big Mac." It comes with cheese but is not served with whine.
Available soon at the Golden Arches as well as handed out by the Greeters at Wally World.
Ed
^^^^^^Stirring the pot ^^^^^
G8ADD
07-30-2007, 08:14 AM
Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 29 2007,15:17)]You are right about one thing, you don't know a lot about the Foundation class license (I assume you're talking about UK foundation.)
Anyone can lie and say they're using 10 watts, just so they keep OfCom off their backs.
Quite a few of my friends are UK amateurs, (I also have a UK license) and they know that many foundation licensees are not going to and simply do not obey the 10w power limit. Some aren't even aware of how to turn down the power!
I mean, who exactly is going to catch them?
Mind you, there are some honest folks out there, but it is too easy to break the rules and not get caught.
Now, what I can agree with is the foundation training course.
Make a training course mandatory to get a license in the USA, and ensure that new licensees know how to operate properly before going on air... It will also force a lot of folks to be elmered.
But that 10 watt power limit nonsense simply isn't going to fly...
Doubt me? Think I'm talking rubbish?
Do you obey the speed limit all the time, every time?
Been honest on all of your tax returns (don't answer that one, lest an IRS employee is browsing)?
As a teenager, were you always honest about your age?
Your answers are awaited. OVER..
Human nature being what it is, I am sure that there are some M3s that are using more than 10 watts, but I am also sure that you are exaggerating the numbers. Most M3s obey the rules. Many are using FT817s and IC703s and it takes a lot of skill to cheat on the power levels with those rigs!
The majority of M3s only take a few weeks to start sounding as if they have been on the air for years, quite a few become very good operators, and it helps that the majority of older hams are very supportive and welcoming. You hear of occasional cases of hams that are prejudiced against M3s but I am not aware of anything of that nature around here. When a new M3 appears, tongue tied and nervous, he finds a succession of hams eager to call and welcome him and ease him into the routines of the hobby, which is as it should be!
73
Brian G8ADD
VK3FTTG
07-30-2007, 08:56 AM
I am one of those that hold a Foundation licence, and I can only say that I, as well as other Foundation licence holders, I have been welcomed by all levels of licence holders on the bands. As a matter of fact if you put out a call on any of the bands here that we are allowed to operate on in Australia, they come back to you immediately and are only too willing to offer advise and have a friendly chat, and that also applies to the U.S and other countries hams that I have spoken to on IRLP. There are a few that resent our presence on the Ham bands, but they are very few and will eventually realise that we are here to stay whether we upgrade or not. As for the 10 watts we are limited to, I myself have operated on this limit at all times and have had great success on HF due to an antenna system put together by myself, with a little advise from an Elmer. There will always be someone that will operate over their legal limit, and that applies to all levels of licence holders.