View Full Version : Plastics Turn 100
ae4fa
07-16-2007, 11:12 AM
How quickly time flies:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11959165
n2ize
07-16-2007, 11:24 AM
Actually plastics are more like 150 years old. The first plastic was called "celluloid" and was invented in 1856. #Celluloid is made from cellulose dinitrate + camphor. At one time almost everything was made from celluloid. It was easilly colored, molded and created excellent simulated pearl (pearloid) and tortoise shell. #celluloid was quite hard yet flexible and resilient as far as plastics go. It's one drawback was it's intense flammability. When it goes up it really goes up. Otherwise it's incredibly strong.
These days not many things are made from celluloid except ping pong balls, guitar pics, and some fountain pens and ornamental items.
Just one word... are you listening? #Just one word...
Plastics.
'Nuf said.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
From cell phones to fast food containers. Plastic might be 100 years old yet no one has any idea how long it's pollution will last.
"Except for the small amount that's been incinerated-- and it's a very small amount –every bit of plastic ever made still exists"
Plastic Ocean (http://www.bestlifeonline.com/cms/publish/travel-leisure/Our_oceans_are_turning_into_plastic_are_we.shtml)
n2ize
07-16-2007, 07:45 PM
Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 16 2007,12:32)]From cell phones to fast food containers. Plastic might be 100 years old yet no one has any idea how long it's pollution will last.
Plastic Ocean (http://www.bestlifeonline.com/cms/publish/travel-leisure/Our_oceans_are_turning_into_plastic_are_we.shtml)
Thats one thing I like about the older celluloid plastic. It was simple to make, it was very hard yet had good flexibility. It could be molded, shaped, cut, grinded, drilled, sanded, and colored into almost any color or combination imagineable from clear to simulated pearl. . I have items around the house made from it that are 100 years old and it are still as good as ever. And it was relatively non toxic. Even when it burns it leaves behind little ash or residue. It does release nitorgen compounds when burned but is still relatively less toxic than some of the modern day plastics. And, over the long haul it seems to outlast many of the modern plastics. And you don't need petroleum to make it.
Of course it's main drawback is flammability. It is best not used around heat, flame or electrical equipment. Of course for those applications Bakelite is usually adequate. Bakelite is great for many applications, still widely used. Unfortunately Bakelite is extremely rigid and brittle. Care must be taken not to stress or bend it or expose it to shock.
Yep a full century and here was their first experiment:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6650/coulterann0305ii4.jpg
n2ize
07-16-2007, 08:09 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 16 2007,12:59)]Yep a full century and here was their first experiment:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6650/coulterann0305ii4.jpg
Yeah, but which type of plastic did they use to create Ann ?
I do like a woman that does smell like freshly poured plastic.
WB2WIK
07-16-2007, 09:34 PM
Made the Handler family rich.
A lot of people don't know Barbara and Ken are real people.
Ken throws some great parties down on Silver Strand...
WB2WIK/6
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,16:09)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 16 2007,12:59)]Yep a full century and here was their first experiment:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6650/coulterann0305ii4.jpg
Yeah, but which type of plastic did they use to create Ann ?
I do like a woman that does smell like freshly poured plastic.
After a hundred years? Fresh is hardly what I'd call it. More like flaking at the edges.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,13:09)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 16 2007,12:59)]Yep a full century and here was their first experiment:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6650/coulterann0305ii4.jpg
Yeah, but which type of plastic did they use to create Ann ?
I do like a woman that does smell like freshly poured plastic.
http://www.geocities.com/missy_wav/wavfiles/aquarium03.ram
n2ize
07-16-2007, 11:36 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 16 2007,15:41)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,16:09)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 16 2007,12:59)]Yep a full century and here was their first experiment:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6650/coulterann0305ii4.jpg
Yeah, but which type of plastic did they use to create Ann ?
I do like a woman that does smell like freshly poured plastic.
After a hundred years? #Fresh is hardly what I'd call it. #More like flaking at the edges.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Well, when I said, "freshly poured plastic" I wasn't nessesarily thinking of Ann Coulter.
kb2vxa
07-17-2007, 02:24 AM
Re: celluloid;
"Of course it's main drawback is flammability. It is best not used around heat, flame or electrical equipment."
While using my grandfather's electrician's pliers the plastic grips burst into flames, I threw them across the room where they set my bed on fire.
So, why did I find out the hard way they were made of celluloid? I guess the answer is electrician's pliers should not be used around electrical equipment. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
n2ize
07-17-2007, 04:26 AM
Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ July 16 2007,19:24)]Re: celluloid;
"Of course it's main drawback is flammability. It is best not used around heat, flame or electrical equipment."
While using my grandfather's electrician's pliers the plastic grips burst into flames, I threw them across the room where they set my bed on fire.
So, why did I find out the hard way they were made of celluloid? I guess the answer is electrician's pliers should not be used around electrical equipment. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Well, thats the best way to test for celluloid http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Actually, I usually use the "hot pin test". I heat the pointed end of a pin to red head on a stove and then I touch it gently to the object I am testing. If it's celluloid you'll notice a very small but sudden and violent reaction. You'll literally hear a faint screeching hiss emenating from the spot you touch with the pin along with a small puff of white smoke that has a very strange strong distinctive pungent sweet camphor-like odour.
I had an incident similar to yours a number of years ago. I was talking on the phone and at the same time amusing myself by flicking a bic lighter and waving the flame across a ping pong ball for a split second or so. Suddenly much to my surprise the ball burst into an intense sizzling ball of fire. I tried to blow it out but instad the ball flew into some papers and nearly started a fire. I found out through that careless little episode that ping pong balls are still made from cellulose dinitrate aka celluloid.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 15 2007,13:45)]Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 16 2007,12:32)]From cell phones to fast food containers. Plastic might be 100 years old yet no one has any idea how long it's pollution will last.
Plastic Ocean (http://www.bestlifeonline.com/cms/publish/travel-leisure/Our_oceans_are_turning_into_plastic_are_we.shtml)
Thats one thing I like about the older celluloid plastic. It was simple to make, it was very hard yet had good flexibility. It could be molded, shaped, cut, grinded, drilled, sanded, and colored into almost any color or combination imagineable from clear to simulated pearl. . I have items around the house made from it that are 100 years old and it are still as good as ever. And it was relatively non toxic. Even when it burns it leaves behind little ash or residue. It does release nitorgen compounds when burned but is still relatively less toxic than some of the modern day plastics. And, over the long haul it seems to outlast many of the modern plastics. And you don't need petroleum to make it.
Of course it's main drawback is flammability. It is best not used around heat, flame or electrical equipment. Of course for those applications Bakelite is usually adequate. Bakelite is great for many applications, still widely used. Unfortunately Bakelite is extremely rigid and brittle. Care must be taken not to stress or bend it or expose it to shock.
WOW! IZE I can honestly say I am impressed with your vast knowledge of the industry I have been playing in for a bit now. Teach us more. I only have a very limited knowledge of plastics after working in the industry as everything from a process technician to a process engineer and mid and corporate level management for these past 31 years, but I am eager to learn, please continue.
Oh, if you want to chat thermoplastics verses thermosets, I would be up for a good chat, just let me know.
n2ize
07-17-2007, 05:15 AM
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ July 16 2007,21:34)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 15 2007,13:45)]Quote[/b] (n6yg @ July 16 2007,12:32)]From cell phones to fast food containers. Plastic might be 100 years old yet no one has any idea how long it's pollution will last.
Plastic Ocean (http://www.bestlifeonline.com/cms/publish/travel-leisure/Our_oceans_are_turning_into_plastic_are_we.shtml)
Thats one thing I like about the older celluloid plastic. It was simple to make, it was very hard yet had good flexibility. It could be molded, shaped, cut, grinded, drilled, sanded, and colored into almost any color or combination imagineable from clear to simulated pearl. . I have items around the house made from it that are 100 years old and it are still as good as ever. And it was relatively non toxic. Even when it burns it leaves behind little ash or residue. It does release nitorgen compounds when burned but is still relatively less toxic than some of the modern day plastics. And, over the long haul it seems to outlast many of the modern plastics. And you don't need petroleum to make it.
Of course it's main drawback is flammability. It is best not used around heat, flame or electrical equipment. Of course for those applications Bakelite is usually adequate. Bakelite is great for many applications, still widely used. Unfortunately Bakelite is extremely rigid and brittle. Care must be taken not to stress or bend it or expose it to shock.
WOW! IZE I can honestly say I am impressed with your vast knowledge of the industry I have been playing in for a bit now. Teach us more. I only have a very limited knowledge of plastics after working in the industry as everything from a process technician to a process engineer and mid and corporate level management for these past 31 years, but I am eager to learn, please continue.
And your point is what ? #Are you trying to say that unless someone has 31 years experience in plastics engineering they are not permitted to discuss basic common knowledge information about various types of plastics without wisecracks from you ? Please teach me some basic high school algebra or some freshman level differential calculus. I need to learn it from you ? Nobody here is trying to outdo you or assume industrial expertise.
n2ize
07-17-2007, 05:27 AM
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ July 16 2007,21:35)]Oh, if you want to chat thermoplastics verses thermosets, I would be up for a good chat, just let me know.
Sure, I'd love it. if you've got something worthwhile to teach I'd be more than happy to listen. Thermoplastics are those such as celluloid, polycarbonate, etc which soften when heated and harden when they cool. A thermoset would be a plastic that sets i.e. hardens via the application of energy, i.e. heat UV, etc. An example of a thermoset would be bakelite, varous resins (epoxy resins), etc. My chemistry background is a bit rusty but I am sure I can still understand much of the chemistry involved in producing these substances as well as the chemical properties. #But I would be interested in learning more about the industrial processing and manufacture of these plastics.
Or we can chat about Inverse scattering theory, or Jorgenson's theorem and it's applications to quasifuchsian punctured torus groups, or maybe Frikes surfaces, or Gioguardi patterns.
kf6rdn
07-17-2007, 06:18 AM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,21:15)]...
Are you trying to say that unless someone has 31 years experience in plastics engineering they are not permitted to discuss basic common knowledge information about various types of plastics without wisecracks from you ?
...
Since when is anyone around here immune from wisecracks?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 15 2007,23:15)]And your point is what ? Are you trying to say that unless someone has 31 years experience in plastics engineering they are not permitted to discuss basic common knowledge information about various types of plastics without wisecracks from you ? Please teach me some basic high school algebra or some freshman level differential calculus. I need to learn it from you ? Nobody here is trying to outdo you or assume industrial expertise.
Oooops! I am sorry, I had forgotten how fanatically defensive you are, silly me. As much as I enjoy your posts and have a chuckle when I read your posts to and with others, I had simply forgotten how quickly they deteriorate into the usual and typical QRZ contest of urination of the lame.
I know this may be very difficult for you to understand and cope with but here it is in a nutshell. I really do my best to be a bit of an electronics hobbyist and unfortunately have done little to master anything beyond being able to cut a dipole antenna to the correct length or resolder a microphone connector. I have done my best to learn about automobiles, but am capable of little more than changing oil, spark plugs and flushing out a cooling system to keep it happy and healthy. Useful things yes, but very small and I have enough sense to not tangle major rig or automotive repairs myself, they are not my area of expertise, not in my comfort zone. Although I could likely tangle either or any of these tasks, given time, an extreme amount of it and by applying what I may find by doing Google searches and filtering through the mindless babble, banter and BS in general to do it.
In short, if I felt you were honest in your desire to learn more about plastics, selection for application, tooling requirements and the ultimate processing of raw material into whatever your little heart desired, I would be glad to discuss it with you. I in no way meant to intimidate you by saying I would love to discuss it with you, it was pretty much a statement of the fact that now you are in MY comfort zone. This IS what I know and it is what I have done for my entire working career, which has been a long and very prosperous one indeed.
I have no clue whatsoever what it is that you do to put money in the bank and bread on the table, but, I do have enough sense to know that if it is anything from grilling burgers, to driving a truck, being an IT guru or a brain surgeon, you would most certainly be the skilled expert in that field if we discussed it and I would, if it struck my interest, seek out your advice and teaching as I have enough sense to admit that you are the expert in that field and know one hell of a lot more of which you not only speak, but what you live every day, than I do, or likely ever will.
Anyway, thanks for looking up the trivia for us that you did. The internet is a magnificent thing, isn't it? The whole world is right there at our finger tips along with the entire amassed knowledge of all man kind. It's such a delight to see people use it for such noble and wonderful things to help all of mankind, like posting snip its of trivia here on QRZ.
Please forgive me for forgetting that you spend countless hours each day here attacking others and never posting anything of any value to anyone. If I had taken time to consider the fact that it was you of all people copying and pasting with minor editing, trivia that you had read after a brief Google search, I wouldn't have bothered to try to have an intelligent discussion with you. Funny how an old agnostic like me would immediately think of Matthew 7:6 when wasting my time talking to you, huh? Your attitude and personality certainly do not live up to your signature sir.
n2ize
07-17-2007, 09:01 AM
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ July 17 2007,00:28)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 15 2007,23:15)]And your point is what ? #Are you trying to say that unless someone has 31 years experience in plastics engineering they are not permitted to discuss basic common knowledge information about various types of plastics without wisecracks from you ? Please teach me some basic high school algebra or some freshman level differential calculus. I need to learn it from you ? Nobody here is trying to outdo you or assume industrial expertise.
Oooops! I am sorry, I had forgotten how fanatically defensive you are, silly me. As much as I enjoy your posts and have a chuckle when I read your posts to and with others, I had simply forgotten how quickly they deteriorate into the usual and typical QRZ contest of urination of the lame.
I know this may be very difficult for you to understand and cope with but here it is in a nutshell. I really do my best to be a bit of an electronics hobbyist and unfortunately have done little to master anything beyond being able to cut a dipole antenna to the correct length or resolder a microphone connector. I have done my best to learn about automobiles, but am capable of little more than changing oil, spark plugs and flushing out a cooling system to keep it happy and healthy. Useful things yes, but very small and I have enough sense to not tangle major rig or automotive repairs myself, they are not my area of expertise, not in my comfort zone. Although I could likely tangle either or any of these tasks, given time, an extreme amount of it and by applying what I may find by doing Google searches and filtering through the mindless babble, banter and BS in general to do it.
In short, if I felt you were honest in your desire to learn more about plastics, selection for application, tooling requirements and the ultimate processing of raw material into whatever your little heart desired, I would be glad to discuss it with you. I in no way meant to intimidate you by saying I would love to discuss it with you, it was pretty much a statement of the fact that now you are in MY comfort zone. This IS what I know and it is what I have done for my entire working career, which has been a long and very prosperous one indeed.
I have no clue whatsoever what it is that you do to put money in the bank and bread on the table, but, I do have enough sense to know that if it is anything from grilling burgers, to driving a truck, being an IT guru or a brain surgeon, you would most certainly be the skilled expert in that field if we discussed it and I would, if it struck my interest, seek out your advice and teaching as I have enough sense to admit that you are the expert in that field and know one hell of a lot more of which you not only speak, but what you live every day, than I do, or likely ever will.
Anyway, thanks for looking up the trivia for us that you did. The internet is a magnificent thing, isn't it? The whole world is right there at our finger tips along with the entire amassed knowledge of all man kind. It's such a delight to see people use it for such noble and wonderful things to help all of mankind, like posting snip its of trivia here on QRZ.
Please forgive me for forgetting that you spend countless hours each day here attacking others and never posting anything of any value to anyone. If I had taken time to consider the fact that it was you of all people copying and pasting with minor editing, trivia that you had read after a brief Google search, I wouldn't have bothered to try to have an intelligent discussion with you. Funny how an old agnostic like me would immediately think of Matthew 7:6 when wasting my time talking to you, huh? Your attitude and personality certainly do not live up to your signature sir.
Do you feel better now ? It's OK, I have bad days too.
Quote[/b] (ku4my @ July 16 2007,18:28)][quote=n2ize,July 15 2007,23:15]
Please forgive me for forgetting that you spend countless hours each day here attacking others and never posting anything of any value to anyone. If I had taken time to consider the fact that it was you of all people copying and pasting with minor editing, trivia that you had read after a brief Google search, I wouldn't have bothered to try to have an intelligent discussion with you. Funny how an old agnostic like me would immediately think of Matthew 7:6 when wasting my time talking to you, huh? Your attitude and personality certainly do not live up to your signature sir.
Countless thankless hours providing valuable information at my fingertips. I thoroughly enjoy reading IZE's exposes on topics I had not previously known about. For me, reading them is a learning experience. To others, it is apparently an attack.
Maybe we should not Google? We should stay ignorant and not learn the difference between a thermoset and a thermoplastic.
Let's stay ignorant.
ab1ga
07-17-2007, 02:15 PM
Now I'll grant that Bakelite is a -polymer- with a long and illustrious history, but in my personal experience it's been anything BUT -plastic-.
Chemistry lore has it Baekland dumped phenol and formaldehyde and a bunch of other goodies into his waste jar and the whole mess hardened.
Given the history of the human condition, the first use of Bakelite was probably as a weapon, hurled toward a lazy, yet quickly retreating, lab assistant.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,03:01)]It's OK, I have bad days too.
I've noticed. Since February 2002 that must be what, about 2,000 of them by now? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Take care and have a great one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif