FBI and DVD's

[n2ize]

Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with #MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,03:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with #MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
It is the result of "BIG HOLLYWOOD'S" influence and control over nanny government via it's lobbyists.

[K8MHZ]

Other than taking up a larger percentage of the product, how is the FBI warning all that different than a patent # or a copyright notice?

Under the guise of 'fair use' it is legal to copy anything for YOUR OWN use. #You cannot, however, distribute it...even if you don't charge for it. #There are even exemptions in the DMCA for librarians, researchers, etc.

What ticks people off is the encryption protocols on DVDs that make it difficult or impossible to copy a commercially produced DVD even for legal reasons. #Being argued in the courts right now is the legality of programs such as X-copy that allow the reproduction of DMCA protected DVDs.

Also bear in mind that the purchase of ONE DVD is just that and that is what you are paying for. #If you want the right to distribute copies you have made you have to cough up more money in the form of a license. #Although you may think that the price you pay is steep enough to include that additional right realize that the price set forth for a single copy is set by the law of supply and demand. #If the price for ONE copy of a DVD was indeed too high people would not buy it and that price would come down. #DVDs are purchased with discretionary income and are not and should have government controlled prices. #When people purchase commercially produced DVDs they know that all they are buying is ONE copy and if they don't like the provisions of the DMCA no one is forcing them to buy that DVD. #They can simply leave it on the shelf and I am certain that their life will not be ruined due to the fact they can't get a free license to duplicate copyrighted material.

I see nothing wrong with the DMCA as it stands and the only ones that really seem to have a gripe about it (you may be an exception) are the ones that want to profit or benefit from someone else's work.

[K3XR]

This information may help.
http://www.mpaa.org/piracy_whoAre.asp

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,05:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with #MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
A popular misconception is that when you buy a DVD, you own the movie.

In fact, when you buy a DVD, you didn't buy the movie and you don't own it.

What you bought is a license to watch that movie in your private home, and the media (the DVD disc).

If you really want to "own" a movie, it would cost millions of dollars.

I don't support all copying restrictions, however, I don't support mass piracy. I support one or two copies for personal use and the use of limited excerpts. This is covered under conventional copyright law.

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 16 2007,05:55)]A popular misconception is that when you buy a DVD, you own the movie.

In fact, when you buy a DVD, you didn't buy the movie and you don't own it.

What you bought is a license to watch that movie in your private home, and the media (the DVD disc).

If you really want to "own" a movie, it would cost millions of dollars.

I don't support all copying restrictions, however, I don't support mass piracy. I support one or two copies for personal use and the use of limited excerpts. This is covered under conventional copyright law.
Bingo and great answer! That also goes for all your computer software as well! You dont own SQUAT! you just bought a license to use. And in the case of software a REVOKEABLE license. Take the time to read the EULA that you haphazardly click "I accept" to everytime without reading.

[KD6NIG]

It could always be worse-

-It could come up on the screen for a longer time.
-They could put some annoying high pitched tone, or annoying song behind it
-They could run a scroll every 15 minutes or so during the film with the warning

Technically, its their product, and they could do whatever they want. Your only recourse? The first time you see it, return it, after that, don't purchase stuff from that particular company.


The funny thing is though, I've seen so called 'ripped' movies posted on the internet before, and most of them, I guess in the interest of completeness......

Include the very warning not to copy it!

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,05:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with #MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
Actually, I believe the license on a CD or DVD now permits you to listen or view that which is recorded on it, but does not confer any ownership rights. Without ownership rights, you are not permitted to copy it or play it in any "commercial" environment. For those uses, you need to buy a different license. You may, however, be authorized to make a "backup" for your own use.

It is much the same with software today. You do not own it, even though you bought it. You only paid for the right to use it.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,02:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
Intellectual property has become over-defined by an unholy collusion of lobbiests and politicians, but we should support this ourtrage because intellectual property is rapidly becoming the only good our country still produces for export. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Efit: Sorry about spelling, etc. Writing from Palm Pilot.

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 16 2007,07:52)]Efit: Sorry about spelling, etc. Writing from Palm Pilot.
Thats it...very nice....Blame the equipment for your shortcomings!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b220/Bunnieman/11786495807.gif

[N5NPO]

Is it against the law to watch an illegal copy of a movie?
What if you didn't know it was pirated?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 16 2007,07:09)]Is it against the law to watch an illegal copy of a movie?
What if you didn't know it was pirated?
Not a defense. BTW, The soldier are returnign fro Iraq qith dozens of bootleg movies and software. Stuff is sold everywhere. The USA is in peril. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (w3bny @ July 16 2007,08:05)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 16 2007,07:52)]Efit: Sorry about spelling, etc. Writing from Palm Pilot.
Thats it...very nice....Blame the equipment for your shortcomings!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b220/Bunnieman/11786495807.gif
Or better yet, demonstrate the fact you're addicted to the Zed if you're on a Palm accessing it http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I don't feel nearly as bad now being that I only check it at work when I have time http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 16 2007,08:09)]Is it against the law to watch an illegal copy of a movie?
What if you didn't know it was pirated?
I haven't looked for or at movies "ripped" online in a long time, but back when I did, it was pretty obvious. The quality was....inferior to say the least. Some of them looked like someone took a camcorder, pointed it at a TV, and played the video and recorded it into the computer that way.

You could tell because of the glare on the screen, and you could see people walking by because the glare would go away every once in a while. Or they were checking on the camera.

You still see videos like that on Youtube occasionally too. Haven't checked out ripped stuff in years though. I too was on the mp3 bandwagon when it was big, but got away from it fast when they started going after people for it. Isn't worth the trouble it can get you into.

The only DVD's I rip now are the mini ones my DVD camcorder takes, being rewriteable I copy them over to my computer, keeping an original copy, then redo them into larger DVDs for family or my personal usage. I don't even know if you can rip commercial ones-never tried.

That being said I DO make 'backup' copies of CD's. I leave the original one at home and take the copies in the car-they get scratched up pretty easily. Easier than buying a new CD every 6 months or so, and if my vehicle is broken into, I'm out the cost of the blank CD. I know people who rip and reburn to get the songs they want only, I'm just lazy I guess.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ July 16 2007,05:19)]
Quote[/b] ]
Under the guise of 'fair use' it is legal to copy anything for YOUR OWN use. #You cannot, however, distribute it...even if you don't charge for it. #There are even exemptions in the DMCA for librarians, researchers, etc.


Yes you can copy it under fair use. But according to the DMCA you cannot circumvent copy protection. But you can make a fair use copy. But you can;t circumvent copy protection. But you can make a fair use copy. But you can't circumvent copy protection. But you can...

See the problem ?

Quote[/b] ]
What ticks people off is the encryption protocols on DVDs that make it difficult or impossible to copy a commercially produced DVD even for legal reasons.


Actually it's extremely easy to do. But it's illegal to do it. Even for a personal backup copy as per fair use.

Quote[/b] ]
I see nothing wrong with the DMCA as it stands and the only ones that really seem to have a gripe about it (you may be an exception) are the ones that want to profit or benefit from someone else's work.


Then you haven't researched the DMCA hard enough. There are many reasons why the DMCA is bad and why it interferes with legitimate causes. I just gave one example above. But there are many many more.
The DMCA also interefers with research and development. It also creates numerous and unanswered paradoxes, i.e. it's legal but illegal. Read about it.

[w3bny]

Nevermind!

(on edit... 99% of you wouldnt have gotten the joke)

[KI4MRU]

For those in this thread who mentioned that they are unfamiliar with how easy it is to rip commercial DVDs, believe me, it's not hard at all. Popular (and free) software exists that can do it in a single click. The actual cracking of the decryption key happens in the blink of an eye. Then, depending on the speed of your DVD drive, it can take as little as 5 or 10 minutes to copy the decrypted contents to your hard drive. If you want to convert it into a compressed format (rather than keeping 5 or 10 GB of raw data lying around) it might take a few hours, depending on your available processing power.

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,12:35)]The DMCA also interefers with research and development. It also creates numerous and unanswered paradoxes, i.e. it's legal but illegal. Read about it.
Absolutely true. Even people who "just want to make a personal backup" are breaking the law if they do so, because in order to rip just about any commercial DVD, you must first break the (weak) encryption on the disc, which is a violation of the DMCA, regardless of whether your subsequent actions fall under fair use or not.

It's like putting up a sign in your window that says "free kittens inside" while simultaneously posting "no trespassing" signs around the perimeter of your house and suing anyone who tries to get in...

[N2RJ]

You guys who say it is easy to copy commercial DVDs are missing the point - it is currently illegal to do so because the DMCA made a loophole to effectively block any form of copying as long as the DVD is copy protected (even if it's weak copy protection such as CSS), even that which is covered under fair use.

Conventional copyright law was just fine. The DMCA was a money grab.

[KI4MRU]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 16 2007,13:27)]You guys who say it is easy to copy commercial DVDs are missing the point - it is currently illegal to do so...
I don't think we missed it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] (KI4MRU @ July 16 2007,13:21)]...in order to rip just about any commercial DVD, you must first break the (weak) encryption on the disc, which is a violation of the DMCA, regardless of whether your subsequent actions fall under fair use or not.

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,12:35)]Actually it's extremely easy to do. But it's illegal to do it.

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 16 2007,13:27)]Conventional copyright law was just fine. The DMCA was a money grab.
Fully agree with you there. It now appears that Congress will keep extending copyright protections to the point where virtually nothing falls out of copyright until several generations have passed since it was created, if ever at all. What started out as a 14-year term, renewable once for an additional 14 years, has now turned into "life of the author + 70 years." I recently saw this article (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070712-research-optimal-copyright-term-is-14-years.html) which states that the 14-year term is actually optimal from an economic standpoint, in most cases. Interesting reading. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (w3bny @ July 16 2007,08:47)]Nevermind!

(on edit... 99% of you wouldnt have gotten the joke)
I demand to see this joke!!!

I don't care if I'd have gotten it!!!

I'd have laughed anyway!!!

[AC0H]

You own the plastic, you don't own the content.

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,03:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with #MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
You should be aware that none of the artists, creators, writers, actors, directors, etc. profit ONE IOTA from these draconian copyright laws. That's why so many talented people are abandoning hollywood (and Nashville) for independent labels, where REASONABLE copyright laws are imposed. It's only the record companies that make any profits.

One should read "The Record Company Hose Job" that Frank Zappa wrote a couple decades ago. It's only worse now.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ July 16 2007,18:34)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,03:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
You should be aware that none of the artists, creators, writers, actors, directors, etc. profit ONE IOTA from these draconian copyright laws. That's why so many talented people are abandoning hollywood (and Nashville) for independent labels, where REASONABLE copyright laws are imposed. It's only the record companies that make any profits.

One should read "The Record Company Hose Job" that Frank Zappa wrote a couple decades ago. It's only worse now.
Yes, I agree. Which is why I wonder why Metallica et al complained loudly about napster, and why Madonna recorded a fake song that said, "what the F### do you think you're doing?"

I think the producers made them do it. Either that or they had too much drugs that night (or both.)

[KC2ESD]

Quote[/b] ]copy it, share it

Arrr, IZE you are a Pirate and RJ a spy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N3ATS]

Burn and Return. Crop out all the ads, previews, and even the FBI warning! w00T!

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ July 16 2007,19:38)]Quote[/b] ]copy it, share it

Arrr, IZE you are a Pirate and RJ a spy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Repent to Allah, you infidel! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W1GUH]

At least, if you could fast forward through the stupid message, that we all know by heart, I wouldn't mind so much. #But that "Operation not functional here" or "Operation Prohibited" or "Operation completely beyond what we're willing to let you do" when I hit the fast forward or next button really ticks me off.

Quote[/b] ]You should be aware that none of the artists, creators, writers, actors, directors, etc. profit ONE IOTA from these draconian copyright laws. # That's why so many talented people are abandoning hollywood (and Nashville) for independent labels, where REASONABLE copyright laws are imposed. #It's only the record companies that make any profits.

One should read "The Record Company Hose Job" that Frank Zappa wrote a couple decades ago. #It's only worse now.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

IMHO, it's criminal what the majors do the the artists.

[k4kyv]

One of the problems I have with copyright laws is that it often renders human knowledge that resides in out-of-print works, inaccessible. The owner of the printed or recorded material does not think it is worth keeping on the market, yet no-one is permitted to copy and distribute it, even free of charge.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 16 2007,16:30)]Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ July 16 2007,18:34)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 16 2007,03:43)]Why is it when I purchase a commercially recorded DVD disc, which I OWN, I am forced each time I play it not only to read a warning message from Nanny FBI informing me that I am a criminal unless I use MY PROPERTY that I PAID FOR, in a manner consistent with what Nanny decided for me. It's MY DVD and I should be allowed to copy it, share it, reverse engineer it, and do what I want with what I own.

And to make matters worst on some DVD's I have to read a warning from "Interpol" as well. International Nanny police are telling me what I can and cannot do with MY PROPERTY in the United States.

I think this is an outrage.
You should be aware that none of the artists, creators, writers, actors, directors, etc. profit ONE IOTA from these draconian copyright laws. That's why so many talented people are abandoning hollywood (and Nashville) for independent labels, where REASONABLE copyright laws are imposed. It's only the record companies that make any profits.

One should read "The Record Company Hose Job" that Frank Zappa wrote a couple decades ago. It's only worse now.
Yes, I agree. Which is why I wonder why Metallica et al complained loudly about napster, and why Madonna recorded a fake song that said, "what the F### do you think you're doing?"

I think the producers made them do it. Either that or they had too much drugs that night (or both.)
Don't the really big stars that have colossal sales negotiate with the media labels to give them good deals, while the less well-known artists are fried, toasted, and eaten by the contracts they must sign to get any traction in the industry?

I am not well-versed in this, but it seems that there is some unjustified monopoly power exercised in the current system, and that the artists and their fans are beginning to find ways around the choke-hold of the big labels..

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ July 16 2007,19:02)]
Quote[/b] ]
At least, if you could fast forward through the stupid message, that we all know by heart, I wouldn't mind so much. #But that "Operation not functional here" or "Operation Prohibited" or "Operation completely beyond what we're willing to let you do" when I hit the fast forward or next button really ticks me off.


Ah, you have to have the right software if you wish to skip.