The Black Community and the 4th of July

[k4kyv]

For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.

[K3XR]

Maybe it's because they are Americans.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, #this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
You are right!
The United States of America is the worst excuse for a country the world has ever known. We should hang our heads in utter shame and turn over complete control of soverignty to the UN and accept whatever the ramafications be. We can never approach the correct amount to compensate the rest of humanity so we should sell all our private posessions and accept unconditional surrender to the will of the rest of the planet. I am sorry I was born here, I am ashamed....






I am N5NPO and I approve of this TROLL. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:04)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, #this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
You are right!
The United States of America is the worst excuse for a country the world has ever known. We should hang our heads in utter shame and turn over complete control of soverignty to the UN and accept whatever the ramafications be. We can never approach the correct amount to compensate the rest of humanity so we should sell all our private posessions and accept unconditional surrender to the will of the rest of the planet. I am sorry I was born here, I am ashamed....






I am N5NPO and I approve of this TROLL. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We should be willing to admit we are not perfect and that not everything we have done is right.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,19:11)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:04)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, #this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
You are right!
The United States of America is the worst excuse for a country the world has ever known. We should hang our heads in utter shame and turn over complete control of soverignty to the UN and accept whatever the ramafications be. We can never approach the correct amount to compensate the rest of humanity so we should sell all our private posessions and accept unconditional surrender to the will of the rest of the planet. I am sorry I was born here, I am ashamed....






I am N5NPO and I approve of this TROLL. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We should be willing to admit we are not perfect and that not everything we have done is right.
You are right 'IZE.
We ain't perfect by any means... But I can not think of a better country to live in....
Then again, I live in Alabama, I am from Alabama and I cannot think of a state I would rather live in, that would place me in the insane column with some people... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k4kyv]

On the 8th of August in 1863, Andrew Johnson, then military governor of Tennessee, freed his personal slaves. Before the advent of racial integration of public facilities in the early 1960s, the 8th of August was observed as Emancipation Day in Tennessee. The Black community celebrated it in earnest. It was the summer holiday of choice for at least 90 years,
the holiday that most blacks thought of as their day. The 4th of July was Independence Day, but for blacks it was not Freedom Day as expressed by the 8th of August.

[K0RGR]

Actually, for some blacks, 1776 was important.

In some states, blacks could earn their freedom by fighting for the colonies, and many did.

Crispus Attics, a black man, may have been the first to die in the Revolution, if you call the Boston Massacre the start of the Revolution.

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, #this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
That is most emphatically untrue. From time immemorial, all peoples in all nations, black brown, white and yellow have enslaved others, from captives to the conquered to even their own poor. From the very first inkling of the founding of the United States, the movement to end slavery was underway.

The 3/5ths compromise was intended to reduce the apportionment of members of the House of Representatives in the southern states, thence reducing the power of slave owners in the legislature. The importing of slaves was prohibited by 1807 and one the worlds most horrific wars was fought less than hundred years after the country’s founding to bring slavery to an end.

The United States and its people need not take a back seat to any people, anywhere in its handling of slavery. It was a pre-existing condition that many people abhorred and those people promptly set about bringing it to an end.

[N4AUD]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,22:11)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:04)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
You are right!
The United States of America is the worst excuse for a country the world has ever known. We should hang our heads in utter shame and turn over complete control of soverignty to the UN and accept whatever the ramafications be. We can never approach the correct amount to compensate the rest of humanity so we should sell all our private posessions and accept unconditional surrender to the will of the rest of the planet. I am sorry I was born here, I am ashamed....






I am N5NPO and I approve of this TROLL. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We should be willing to admit we are not perfect and that not everything we have done is right.
That's the most intelligent statement I've read on QRZ lately.

[WA3WDR]

We are still trying to operate according to the founding principles of this nation. #The foundation of this nation has got to be the best on earth. #We just aren't living up to it.

Neo-Con nazism isn't it, and either is Political Correctness. #Both extremes are wacko. #We almost had it in the 70s, but it was way too PC, and now we suffer from classes of people who took advantage of that and expect to make it a way of life, and the backlash against that crap. #We may yet get it together. #I hope so, because it's starting to look pretty messed up to me, and I don't like that. #We have become too good at making classes of people who take advantage.

Meanwhile we are becoming moochers in the world, and we aren't too productive or even creative any more. #This isn't going to work... #And, we have nasty enemies that we can't deal with too well, because we take too much crap and make too few demands. #There needs to be social change, people need to get tougher.

[w4wtf]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.
Because, despite whatever failings we had as a nation in the past, they know they are still better off here than they would be had they be born in present day Africa.

[KI4PJW]

White slaves, Black slave owners in America
http://www.epado.bravehost.com/whiteslaves09.htm

The Forgotten Slaves: Whites in Servitude in Early America and Industrial Britain

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

Yes Virginia, White Slavery Existed, By Michael A. Hoffman

"When White servitude is acknowledged as having existed in America, it is almost always termed as temporary “indentured servitude” or part of the convict trade, which, after the Revolution of 1776, centered on Australia instead of America. The “convicts” transported to America under the 1723 Waltham Act, perhaps numbered 100,000.

The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master’s silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward..."

Slaves of a different color
http://dir.salon.com/story/books/it/2000/06/15/white_slaves/?pn=1

NO MORE HABEAS CORPUS
WELCOME, FELLOW SLAVES!
http://www.etherzone.com/2006/stang102006.shtml

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ July 05 2007,02:35)]That is most emphatically untrue. From time immemorial, all peoples in all nations, black brown, white and yellow have enslaved others, from captives to the conquered to even their own poor. From the very first inkling of the founding of the United States, the movement to end slavery was underway.

The 3/5ths compromise was intended to reduce the apportionment of members of the House of Representatives in the southern states, thence reducing the power of slave owners in the legislature. The importing of slaves was prohibited by 1807 and one the worlds most horrific wars was fought less than hundred years after the country’s founding to bring slavery to an end.
The point is that all else being equal, gaining our independence may have actually slowed down the process. Slaves in the remaining territories of the British Empire were freed by the Act in 1838. It took that deadly war in 1861-65 to end it here.

Of course, if we hadn't had the Revolution in 1776 and remained a colony, the slavery issue would still likely have eventually come to a head, still possibly ending up in a bloody war. The Slavery Abolition Act by Parliament might have triggered it, with the issues of independence and slavery muddled into one conflict. International alliances would most certainly been far different, and possibly the outcome of the war. No doubt the country today would have been a far different place.

[al2n]

A Massachusetts slave woman, Mum Bett, sued her owner and won her freedom in court in 1781, announcing her new name as Elizabeth Freeman and helping pave the way for the Massachusetts court's abolition of slavery in that state two years later.

It would seem that American independence increased the speed of the abolishment of slavery in the northern states.

Read your history and you will find a number of anti-slavery writings in America dating from the early 1700's.

[kd5kfl]

1) If it happened before my 18th birthday, 1972, it's not my choice, it's not my fault and it's not my problem ( 18 year olds had the right to vote in Michigan in '72 ).

2) If any of my ancestors ever owned a slave, not a nickel of the profits ever came my way.

3) If any of my ancestors ever owned a slave, they probably stole him, her or them. After 9:00 AM. And they probably lost him / her / them in a card game that night.

I'm over it, and spending my time working on a better future. I advise everyone else to do the same.

As P.J. O'Rourke said, what appears to be an anti-American rally outside our overseas embassies is actually two separate crowds: 5% rioters and 95% people applying for a green card.

[kc2orw]

To those that hate themselves I say knock yourselves out. Perhaps you are the descendant of a slave owner and feel guilty. My ancestors are all poor people from Ireland, Germany, Holland, and Scotland. They all came here to escape poverty in Europe and they loved the lives they made for themselves here. Two were union soldiers in the civil war, one went up San Juan Hill, one was in WWI and a Ham, Five were WWII vets. All were laborers and proud of their accomplishments. So if you feel guilty then by all means feel guilty I and some others don't. In my family not a one was a slave owner though we can't determine absolutely at least one may have been an indentured servant.
You are free to feel like you hate everyone that is your right. But maybe you haven't got everything all figured out like you think you do.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,19:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. #Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, #this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
Are you bucking for the QRZ "Bitch of the Month" post?

People of all nationalities came here, some as virtual slaves, and made something of themselves. Decades after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 became the law of the land, we see black mayors, councilmen, congressmen, senators, a black woman is the Secretary of State!

Yet all we hear from the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton cabal is how blacks are still victims long after the Emancipation Proclamation, the end of Jim Crow, and other acts that have opened doors for citizens of African decent.

It's easier to sit on your butt and demand a handout than to actually WORK and make something of yourself. To those members of the black community who do not buy into the 'victim' game and have become successful as those of many other ethnic groups have, I applaud you. To those of the black community whose heroes are drug dealers, pimps, and gangsta rappers, who belittle those of their race who DO become successful by calling them 'Oreos', 'Uncle Tom', and accusing them of 'acting white', I can only say it is time to pull your head out of your alimentary canal and realize this 'black as victim' crud has grown very old.

As the Supreme Court declared last week "The only way to stop discrimination based on race is to stop discriminating based on race."

Pull up your pants, learn to speak proper English, lose the attitude, get an education and a job skill, and that will be the way out of poverty and despair. Insisting on permanent set asides and subsidies based solely on skin color was wrong 150 years ago, it remains wrong today.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ July 04 2007,17:54)]Maybe it's because they are Americans.
Excellent! Yes, probably as simple as that!

[KG4CGC]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ July 06 2007,00:51)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,19:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
Are you bucking for the QRZ "Bitch of the Month" post?
That was the Answer of the Month!

I was thinking the whole thing was a bit, "trollish".

[kd5kfl]

Quote[/b] ]Pull up your pants, learn to speak proper English, lose the attitude, get an education and a job skill, and that will be the way out of poverty and despair

KI4PEQ, you could have added:

"Turn your hat around the right way"

Seeing a man with the front of his cap pointed any way but at the front of his head reduces my opinion of that man 10 db.

[K8MHZ]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ July 04 2007,13:54)]Maybe it's because they are Americans.
Garsh...

I can't believe I agree with you but I do.

Say, has anyone bothered to ask any of their African-American friends why they celebrate the 4th?

Probably and hopefully not. #I won't because I find such a question to be racist and offensive and my African-American friends deserve far more respect than that.

Why not ask an African-American why they bother to vote?

Why not ask an African-American why they speak English?

Why not ask an African-American soldier why he or she fights for our country? #

The premise of this thread is shameful and distasteful, IMHO. #What a slap in the face to fine Americans like the Tuskegee Airmen, just to name a few.

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,23:03)]
The point is that all else being equal, gaining our independence may have actually slowed down the process. Slaves in the remaining territories of the British Empire were freed by the Act in 1838. It took that deadly war in 1861-65 to end it here.

Isn't it possible that the British Empire, enjoying the huge economic benefits of slavery with regard to cotton growing in North America, would have kept slavery going longer? That they abolished it after they lost America doesn't mean they would have done the same had they kept it.

[kg4yus]

what you talking 'bout willis,
Watermelon and Fried Chicken stocks blows up on da fo'th of jewlie

Colored folks dont celebrate da fo'th man you must be crazy, I aint never

[kd7msc]

Quote[/b] (kg4yus @ July 06 2007,10:55)]what you talking 'bout willis,
Watermelon and Fried Chicken stocks #blows up on da fo'th of jewlie

Colored folks dont celebrate da fo'th man you must be crazy, I aint never
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w302/2008macak/avatar_7387.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w9is]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:17)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,19:11)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:04)]Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ July 04 2007,18:49)]For those of African-American heritage, there was nothing liberating about 1776. Indeed we may question why the Black Community would observe the 4th of July as a day of celebration.

On 23rd August 1833, the Slavery Abolition Act outlawed slavery in the
British colonies. On the 1st of August 1834, all slaves in the British
Empire were emancipated, but still indentured to their former owners in an
apprenticeship system which was finally abolished in 1838.

But since the United States had broken away from the British Empire
beginning with the Declaration of Independence in 1776, this Act had no
effect on slavery here. American independence kept African Americans in
slavery for an entire generation past the date they would have otherwise
been freed had we remained a colony.
You are right!
The United States of America is the worst excuse for a country the world has ever known. We should hang our heads in utter shame and turn over complete control of soverignty to the UN and accept whatever the ramafications be. We can never approach the correct amount to compensate the rest of humanity so we should sell all our private posessions and accept unconditional surrender to the will of the rest of the planet. I am sorry I was born here, I am ashamed....






I am N5NPO and I approve of this TROLL. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We should be willing to admit we are not perfect and that not everything we have done is right.
You are right 'IZE.
We ain't perfect by any means... But I can not think of a better country to live in....
Then again, I live in Alabama, I am from Alabama and I cannot think of a state I would rather live in, that would place me in the insane column with some people... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I'd say the US makes the top 10 countries to live in. Pay is not that great but the lower cost of living makes up for that. The main problem is that they haven't worked out universal health coverage yet. If New Zealand had decent paying jobs it would have to be the best, Australia is pretty good too, another top tenner.

[n4sva]

Perhaps our African-American brothers and sisters would have had a better life in Ghana or Liberia if we had only abolished slavery from the get go. <sarcasm /off>

[K8MHZ]

Quote[/b] (n4sva @ July 06 2007,14:53)]Perhaps our African-American brothers and sisters would have had a better life in Ghana or Liberia if we had only abolished slavery from the get go. <sarcasm /off>
Sarcastic or not you bring up something worth considering.

My family hails from Europe and came here at the start of WWI in hope of finding a better life.

They did. #Would I be better off if they had not?

I doubt it.

I believe that holds true for just about anyone that posts here.

Remember, ladies and gentlemen, good friends come in all colors.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (AK7V @ July 07 2007,00:29)]Isn't it possible that the British Empire, enjoying the huge economic benefits of slavery with regard to cotton growing in North America, would have kept slavery going longer? That they abolished it after they lost America doesn't mean they would have done the same had they kept it.
A valid point, and probably correct. Great Britain and its Empire would undoubtedly be far different to-day if the "Colonies" had not gained our independence.

But still, it's a question worth discussing and I see nothing racist about asking it.

I would wager that 90% of Americans, even those who have successfully completed a university level US History course, have never even heard of the 1833 Slavery Abolition Act. I don't recall it ever being taught in any of the US history courses I ever had, nor more recently in any of my kids' history classes.

Strictly speaking, it was not a "US History" event, but was so closely related that the topic must be included to approach a complete picture.

Many schools don't even require study of world history, and the mandatory US history courses too often consist of dry, rote memorisation of names, places and dates.