View Full Version : Please Don't Kill Me."
Quote[/b] ]Here is what Carlson wrote (as quoted in National Review, another source hardly known to be hostile toward Republicans):
In the week before [Karla Faye Tucker's] execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number of other protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Tucker. "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask.
Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them," he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with [Tucker], though. He asked her real difficult questions, like 'What would you say to Governor Bush?' "
"What was her answer?" I wonder.
<span style='color:red'>"Please," Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "don't kill me."</span>
The ugliness of a sitting governor mocking a prisoner's plea to spare her life horrified Carlson, especially after he looked up the transcript of Karla Faye Tucker's appearance on Larry King Live and discovered that nowhere did it show the prisoner asking Bush to stay the execution. It horrified a lot of other conservative journalists, too, including George Will, Richard Brookhiser, and the editorial page of the Manchester Union Leader in New Hampshire.
In light of the recent actions regarding 'commutation' this is a glaring example of how Bush handles those who AREN'T his friends:
Please Don't Kill Me. (http://www.slate.com/id/2131451/)
Bush sounds like a sociopath.
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 04 2007,12:43)]Quote[/b] ]Here is what Carlson wrote (as quoted in National Review, another source hardly known to be hostile toward Republicans):
# #In the week before [Karla Faye Tucker's] execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number of other protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Tucker. "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask.
# #Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them," he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with [Tucker], though. He asked her real difficult questions, like 'What would you say to Governor Bush?' "
# #"What was her answer?" I wonder.
# #<span style='color:red'>"Please," Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "don't kill me."</span>
The ugliness of a sitting governor mocking a prisoner's plea to spare her life horrified Carlson, especially after he looked up the transcript of Karla Faye Tucker's appearance on Larry King Live and discovered that nowhere did it show the prisoner asking Bush to stay the execution. It horrified a lot of other conservative journalists, too, including George Will, Richard Brookhiser, and the editorial page of the Manchester Union Leader in New Hampshire.
In light of the recent actions regarding 'commutation' this is a glaring example of how Bush handles those who AREN'T his friends:
Please Don't Kill Me. (http://www.slate.com/id/2131451/)
Karla Faye Tucker was no saint to be sure, but W's callousness in the face of the execution was inexcusable.
The man never had any dignity. Everything is a frat house prank to that alpha hotel.
Just another example of idiotic "conservative" "just a joke" mentality.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
w7lpn
07-04-2007, 10:09 PM
Maybe he cares more about the victims and their families. Poor, poor, criminals! I wonder if her victims said, "Please don't kill me?" I know...still pretty callous, right? Just something to think about. I've read dozens of presentencing investigation reports, and the if Bush was a little insensitive to the criminal, I can kind of understand it. There is no limit to the cruelty of the criminal mind. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
KB9BVN
07-04-2007, 10:13 PM
America needs to dump capital punishment, and make prison more horrible than it is.
Quote[/b] (KB9BVN @ July 04 2007,14:13)]and make prison more horrible than it is.
Forced sodomy seems good to you?
KB1KIX
07-04-2007, 10:20 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,18:14)]Forced sodomy seems good to you?
Not state forced sodomy.
Let's not forget about the poor kid that killed himself over the racially motivated sodomy in TX this week.
It happens on the outside as well.
Prison should be tougher than it is..... but at the same time, I don't like what a lot of prison sentences are for.
Most non-violent crime doesn't need to be handled through prison (like rediculous drug offenses).
But, as this must be a slow news day, John needed to dig up something from more than 2 administrations ago.
Jonathan
w2amr
07-04-2007, 10:30 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,15:14)]Quote[/b] (KB9BVN @ July 04 2007,14:13)]and make prison more horrible than it is.
Forced sodomy seems good to you?
Maybe if libby went to jail.......................
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,14:09)]Maybe he cares more about the victims and their families. Poor, poor, criminals! I wonder if her victims said, "Please don't kill me?" I know...still pretty callous, right? Just something to think about. I've read dozens of presentencing investigation reports, and the if Bush was a little insensitive to the criminal, I can kind of understand it. #There is no limit to the cruelty of the criminal mind. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Yeah, whatever, station.
Our elected leaders should not act like common thugs.
It doesn't have a DAMN thing to do with compassion for the offender, it's just common sense. Something Bush doesn't have, and some of our right wing morons don't have either.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
KB1KIX
07-04-2007, 10:46 PM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,18:39)]Our elected leaders should not act like common thugs.
Like Clinton pardoning thugs with huge violent/drug convictions?
Look down the list of his pardons - a lot of them are sickening.
Jonathan
Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ July 04 2007,14:46)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,18:39)]Our elected leaders should not act like common thugs.
Like Clinton pardoning thugs with huge violent/drug convictions?
Look down the list of his pardons - a lot of them are sickening.
Jonathan
Loser Boy, the "Clinton did it" defense is old and tired, and inaccurate in this case.
You obviously aren't smart enough to see the problems with your boy, Bush 43.
Pathetic.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
KB9BVN
07-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,17:14)]Quote[/b] (KB9BVN @ July 04 2007,14:13)]and make prison more horrible than it is.
Forced sodomy seems good to you?
No it does not. I haven't seen a more dumb question than your sin a long long time.
Here, to help you understand my opinion on the American prison system, I will elaborate.
We have too many pot users in jail, and too few really dangerous criminals. In my prison, you'd be there to be punished, not to learn a new trade. No cable TV, no newspapers, no contact with the outside world other than your immediate family on visitor day once a quarter. You'd get meager meals, enough to keep you healthy, you'd have no weight room and your exercise would be whatever you can do in your cell.
For those prisoners than can not read or write in English, my prison would force them to learn. Since this is a state provided prison, there won't be any church services....each prisoner will have to practice his faith in solitude and in his cell.
That'd be a good start....
WA3WDR
07-04-2007, 11:00 PM
Maybe Plame should have said "Please don't out me just because my husband says you're a liar." #Then Cheney might have called off his dogs. #Yeah, when pigs fly...
Maybe you think Wilson and Plame are doing OK. #But what about all of the spies that got exposed because of that deliberate leak? #We'll never now how many of our information sources died because of that leak. #And what about their families? #Nobody cares. #But boo hoo poor Libby and his poor family.
Bravo Sierra.
KI4PEQ
07-04-2007, 11:19 PM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,14:53)]Karla Faye Tucker was no saint to be sure, but W's callousness in the face of the execution was inexcusable.
The man never had any dignity. Everything is a frat house prank to that alpha hotel.
Just another example of idiotic "conservative" "just a joke" mentality.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
Take your pill and chill, Dave.
If you don't I'll call the guys at Evil Conservative Industries to come to your house and administer your happy pills.
It's for your own good and the good of the country. Remember, everything you post here is being monitored. Watch out for those guys with sunglasses, dark suits in SUVs with blacked out windows, and the black helicopters. They see all, know all, and since you are not a conservative Republican, your misdeeds will not be pardoned. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KI4PEQ
07-04-2007, 11:21 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,16:14)]Quote[/b] (KB9BVN @ July 04 2007,14:13)]and make prison more horrible than it is.
Forced sodomy seems good to you?
Some of those who post here would no doubt enjoy such an experience.
w2amr
07-04-2007, 11:31 PM
Quote[/b] (WA3WDR @ July 04 2007,16:00)]Maybe Plame should have said "Please don't out me just because my husband says you're a liar." #Then Cheney might have called off his dogs. #Yeah, when pigs fly...
Maybe you think Wilson and Plame are doing OK. #But what about all of the spies that got exposed because of that deliberate leak? #We'll never now how many of our information sources died because of that leak. #And what about their families? #Nobody cares. #But boo hoo poor Libby and his poor family.
Bravo Sierra.
If only bush was as concerned for all Americans as he is for a scum bag like libby. Hey, I can dream can't I?
w7lpn
07-05-2007, 12:33 AM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,15:39)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,14:09)]Maybe he cares more about the victims and their families. Poor, poor, criminals! I wonder if her victims said, "Please don't kill me?" I know...still pretty callous, right? Just something to think about. I've read dozens of presentencing investigation reports, and the if Bush was a little insensitive to the criminal, I can kind of understand it. #There is no limit to the cruelty of the criminal mind. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Yeah, whatever, station.
Our elected leaders should not act like common thugs.
It doesn't have a DAMN thing to do with compassion for the offender, it's just common sense. Something Bush doesn't have, and some of our right wing morons don't have either.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
I just get sick of all the whining about the poor criminal. You never hear anyone go on & on about the poor victims. Yes, I know that some criminals are/were victims of physical/sexual abuse and that could have lead them to behave in this manner, but that's not always the case & even if it was, we need to worry about the victims first! Yes! Still, Bush's comments were crude and unsympathetic.....so?
kc2orw
07-05-2007, 12:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker#Early_years.2C_and_murder)
N5NPO
07-05-2007, 12:53 AM
As I recall, one of Carla Tucker's victems begged her to finish her off. She (Carla) had gotten the sharp side of a pick-ax stuck in the vicktems breast bone or sternum and didn't have the strength to pull it out no matter how hard she tried.... Imagine the victems suffering at the hands of her perp....
I was in Texas when this controversy was going on. I am going to have to side with Bush on this one, maybe he shouldn't have seemed so calous, but I would wonder how the victems family would have felt if justice had not be served via Texas law. It is what it is gentilmen. Move to Texas and vote if you want to change it.
NA4BH
07-05-2007, 01:02 AM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,15:39)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,14:09)]Maybe he cares more about the victims and their families. Poor, poor, criminals! I wonder if her victims said, "Please don't kill me?" I know...still pretty callous, right? Just something to think about. I've read dozens of presentencing investigation reports, and the if Bush was a little insensitive to the criminal, I can kind of understand it. #There is no limit to the cruelty of the criminal mind. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Yeah, whatever, station.
Our elected leaders should not act like common thugs.
It doesn't have a DAMN thing to do with compassion for the offender, it's just common sense. Something Bush doesn't have, and some of our right wing morons don't have either.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
You are exactly right, Bush should have given her a sharper axe. Send her to prison and force her to take advanced axeman studies. That way a long, drawn out murder will never happen again.
JEEBUS, DON'T THESE PEOPLE EVER LEARN? It is all about the offender.
K0RGR
07-05-2007, 02:50 AM
No, its' about a boob in the White House.
Carla Tucker was a human being, and this president, who is so concerned about little unborn babies and brain-dead women in Florida, should have shown some respect for her life, as well.
N5NPO
07-05-2007, 02:56 AM
Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 04 2007,19:50)]No, its' about a boob in the White House.
Carla Tucker was a human being, and this president, who is so concerned about little unborn babies and brain-dead women in #Florida, should have shown some respect for her life, as well.
Like Carla did to her victems???
I think not.
You reap what you sow.
Babies are the epitome of innocence.
Do they not have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness llike we all do?
Carla denied her victims the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...
There were death penalty executions in Texas before G.W. Bush. He didn't invent them.
NA4BH
07-05-2007, 02:59 AM
Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:56)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 04 2007,19:50)]No, its' about a boob in the White House.
Carla Tucker was a human being, and this president, who is so concerned about little unborn babies and brain-dead women in #Florida, should have shown some respect for her life, as well.
Like Carla did to her victems???
I think not.
You reap what you sow.
Babies are the epitome of innocence.
Do they not have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness llike we all do?
Carla denied her victims the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...
There were death penalty executions in Texas before G.W. Bush. He didn't invent them.
Nor did he invent the internet.
Thanks AL !!!!!!!!! # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
WA3WDR
07-05-2007, 03:01 AM
Heh heh... heh heh... no WMD here... heh heh... heh heh... no WMD there... heh heh... heh heh... Oops we forgot to give the troops proper armor... heh heh... bring it on... heh heh...
Love that Bush.
w7lpn
07-05-2007, 03:13 AM
Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ July 04 2007,17:50)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker#Early_years.2C_and_murder)
Thanks! Very much! What a bunch of whiney liberal BS crying about this PIG being put to death. Some of you are worried about the wrong people. All you really need is a good mugging or watch one of your children killed in front of you. That ought to adjust your moral compasses. Bush said exactly what most of Jerry Dean & Deborah Thorton's relatives were thinking. It's a twisted society we live in. No apologies!
KB1KIX
07-05-2007, 04:49 AM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 04 2007,18:50)]Loser Boy, the "Clinton did it" defense is old and tired, and inaccurate in this case.
You obviously aren't smart enough to see the problems with your boy, Bush 43.
Pathetic.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
Old and tired... only as old as the previous administration.
You libs just can't handle the truth.
You obviously ain't smart enough to realize that I don't like this president or administration. You should read more of my posts rather than let your delusional emotions run wild.
I don't have to like Bush to say that I don't feel sorry for Karla Faye Tucker.
As was said earlier - you reap what you so.
I have no pity for someone as cruel as her.
Jonathan
ka5piu
07-05-2007, 04:54 AM
Hello.
I may not agree with Bush on a lot of things but he got it right on this one.
The femmie nazi coalition wanted to be treated fair in everything so they got it.
Had this been a male, nothing would have been said about the execution.
There was no question whatsoever about the crime.
Most Texans were very much for the execution, in fact, almost all protesters were from another state or even country.
Did he make a sarcastic remark? yes.
But, was it in fact taken out of context?
Remember, Carlson is not exactly Mr. Honesty.
GW finally 'Got it' and has limited his exposure to the press.
Now, his press corps will do everything to keep the "bad" people out.
Failing this, he will simply ignore that person.
But, if that was the worst thing GW did I would be a very happy camper.
K8MCN
07-05-2007, 04:55 AM
I challenge anyone to say and back it up, that the country or us as individuals are better off after the Bush years.............yep he will go down in history as the best administration run by a vice president-what a legacy..
KB1KIX
07-05-2007, 04:58 AM
Well... I paid higher taxes under Clinton.
I've noticed approx. 34 dollars a week more in my paycheck.
Not much, but I'm a single father making less than 50 grand a year - so that 34 bucks pays for things like an afternoon miniature golfing, batting cages, go karting, whatever my son and I can do with a few extra bucks.
So, yes.... fiscally, I did better.
Jonathan
w7lpn
07-05-2007, 06:22 AM
Remember, my fellow conservatives or anything but liberal, You can't use logic on them. You must whine, and use otherwise useless emotional manipulation to make your point with a lib. Logic & truth will not work. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
n2ize
07-05-2007, 06:26 AM
Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ July 04 2007,19:56)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ July 04 2007,19:50)]No, its' about a boob in the White House.
Carla Tucker was a human being, and this president, who is so concerned about little unborn babies and brain-dead women in #Florida, should have shown some respect for her life, as well.
Like Carla did to her victems???
I think not.
You reap what you sow.
Babies are the epitome of innocence.
Do they not have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness llike we all do?
Carla denied her victims the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...
There were death penalty executions in Texas before G.W. Bush. He didn't invent them.
You are missing the point. The issue is about Bush making a mockery of a condemned person.. If the death sentence MUST happen that doesn't mean you have to make a joke or a mockery out of it. Most normal people consider the death sentence a regretfull occaision. Sure, they may feel satisfied that justice has been served and they may feel that killing is the only way to bring justice for killing but it is normally regretful that such a path to justice had to be taken. It's not something normal people rejoice in or make jokes and mockeries of.
case and point. When a cop has to shoot someone in the line of duty does the cop start dancing around and laughing and saying, "Yee Haw, I'm so happy, I just shot someone... Yee hawwww !!". well, if he is a psychopath maybe. But if he is normal he considers it a somber occaision and is regretful that it was nessesary to apply lethal force to the situation.
WA3WDR
07-05-2007, 06:31 AM
Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ July 05 2007,00:58)]Well... I paid higher taxes under Clinton.
I've noticed approx. 34 dollars a week more in my paycheck.
Not much, but I'm a single father making less than 50 grand a year - so that 34 bucks pays for things like an afternoon miniature golfing, batting cages, go karting, whatever my son and I can do with a few extra bucks.
So, yes.... fiscally, I did better.
Jonathan
Are you counting the national debt and the interest on same, that you are passing to your children and grandchildren?
w7lpn
07-05-2007, 06:36 AM
In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. Model Inmate? Yah..... Right!?
n2ize
07-05-2007, 06:53 AM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
w2amr
07-05-2007, 08:42 AM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ July 04 2007,17:50)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker#Early_years.2C_and_murder)
Thanks! Very much! What a bunch of whiney liberal BS crying about this PIG being put to death. #Some of you are worried about the wrong people. All you really need is a good mugging or watch one of your children killed in front of you. That ought to adjust your moral compasses. #Bush said exactly what most of Jerry Dean & Deborah Thorton's relatives were thinking. It's a twisted society we live in. No apologies!
"It's a twisted society we live in".
And we have a twisted president. Yep, that works.
w2amr
07-05-2007, 08:47 AM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ July 04 2007,17:50)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker#Early_years.2C_and_murder)
Thanks! Very much! What a bunch of whiney liberal BS crying about this PIG being put to death. #Some of you are worried about the wrong people. All you really need is a good mugging or watch one of your children killed in front of you. That ought to adjust your moral compasses. #Bush said exactly what most of Jerry Dean & Deborah Thorton's relatives were thinking. It's a twisted society we live in. No apologies!
Yeah, I was just thinking the other day that I could probably use a good mugging.
w2amr
07-05-2007, 08:58 AM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:22)]Logic & truth will not work. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
You don't know untill you try. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
n2ize
07-05-2007, 09:36 AM
Quote[/b] (w2amr @ July 05 2007,01:47)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (kc2orw @ July 04 2007,17:50)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Faye_Tucker#Early_years.2C_and_murder)
Thanks! Very much! What a bunch of whiney liberal BS crying about this PIG being put to death. #Some of you are worried about the wrong people. All you really need is a good mugging or watch one of your children killed in front of you. That ought to adjust your moral compasses. #Bush said exactly what most of Jerry Dean & Deborah Thorton's relatives were thinking. It's a twisted society we live in. No apologies!
Yeah, I was just thinking the other day that I could probably use a good mugging.
He misses the point in the article. One of the "whiney liberals" that tried to intervene in Tuckers execution was the "whiney liberal" known as Newt Gingrich as well as several other conservatives such as Pat Roberstson. As a matter of fact there is nothing to indicate that any of the people who tried to prevent Tucker's execution were liberals. And the ones that were directly named like Ginrich, Robertson, Pope John Paul, etc. are not nessesarilly liberals to my knowledge. Somehow I suspect that some conservatives like to do more talking and criticizing than reading and comprehending.
I have also noticed that many conservatives can't seem to pose a counter argument and instead have to attack people with snide and degrading remarks. That is not very good debating and it makes the other side appear to have won the debate. Good debating implies the ability to present a viable counter argument. Calling people "whinig libs" just scores a penalty.
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ July 04 2007,15:21)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,16:14)]Quote[/b] (KB9BVN @ July 04 2007,14:13)]and make prison more horrible than it is.
Forced sodomy seems good to you?
Some of those who post here would no doubt enjoy such an experience.
Sadly, the horrors that take place continuously in the US prison system are quietly accepted by society much like we have seen other societies quietly accept the denial of basic human rights. Even prisoners deserve some basic physical safety.
I watched a high-school buddy do hard time in a federal prison for a non-violent drug crime. He was a pretty good kid except for a difficult, impoverished childhood that included the loss of both parents to cancer. I don't know what happened in the pen, but he came out of prison with a collossal chip on his shoulder for everyone and everything.
I also had a cousin go into prison quite young and do very long and hard time. After he came out of prison he was much more messed up than he was going into prison, and he could never deal psychologically with the things he went through. He finally committed suicide, a more tortured soul would be hard to find.
N8UZE
07-05-2007, 01:43 PM
Quote[/b] (WA3WDR @ July 05 2007,02:31)]Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ July 05 2007,00:58)]Well... I paid higher taxes under Clinton.
I've noticed approx. 34 dollars a week more in my paycheck.
Not much, but I'm a single father making less than 50 grand a year - so that 34 bucks pays for things like an afternoon miniature golfing, batting cages, go karting, whatever my son and I can do with a few extra bucks.
So, yes.... fiscally, I did better.
Jonathan
Are you counting the national debt and the interest on same, that you are passing to your children and grandchildren?
Are you aware that the government just had one of if not the biggest revenue years ever? Typically tax cuts lead to improved economic conditions which lead to even more taxes being paid. If the government now turns around and increases taxes, the economy may slide and government revenues decrease.
w7lpn
07-05-2007, 05:59 PM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,23:53)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
If you missed my point, I'll clarify. Someone earlier made a reference to her being rehab'd or that she was now a model citizen. I never mentioned drug crime, you did. I was making an example of the deciept of some so called "Model" criminals. Again, I care more about protecting innocent society members from thieving, stealing, murdering, criminals and dopers than I do worrying about those poor poor criminals, Wah! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We've been trying logic on liberals for years and have seen the evidence of it's failure on them, and Yes! a good mugging might help........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 05 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,23:53)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
If you missed my point, I'll clarify. Someone earlier made a reference to her being rehab'd or that she was now a model citizen. I never mentioned drug crime, you did. I was making an example of the deciept of some so called "Model" criminals. Again, I care more about protecting innocent society members from thieving, stealing, murdering, criminals and dopers than I do worrying about those poor poor criminals, Wah! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We've been trying logic on liberals for years and have seen the evidence of it's failure on them, and Yes! a good mugging might help........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
She may have become a "model citizen" in jail, there's no way in hell she would have ever gotten out if Bush had commuted her sentence. Her crime was specifically horrific.
I don't know what got you going on your "liberals" rant, but the point I was making was not "compassion for offenders" but rather Bush the inappropriateness of Bush's undignified comments. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
You guys really do listen to all the same radio stations, don't you? I've heard that silly "logic" argument before.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
n2ize
07-05-2007, 06:45 PM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 05 2007,10:59)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,23:53)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
If you missed my point, I'll clarify. Someone earlier made a reference to her being rehab'd or that she was now a model citizen. I never mentioned drug crime, you did. I was making an example of the deceit of some so called "Model" criminals. Again, I care more about protecting innocent society members from thieving, stealing, murdering, criminals and dopers than I do worrying about those poor poor criminals, Wah! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We've been trying logic on liberals for years and have seen the evidence of it's failure on them, and Yes! a good mugging might help........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I live in New York. I grew up during the 1960's and 70's in East new York Brooklyn and spend many days in my grandfathers neighborhood...the South Bronx. During those years both these areas were among the most crime ridden areas in the country. So please, don't tell me about muggings, I have seen it first hand and I know several who have been mugged, shot at and stabbed. I am no stranger to street crimes and how cruel and brutal they can be.
Ask yourself why we have so much drug related crime ? It's brought on by prohibition just like alcohol related crime and death was brought on by alcohol prohibition. You take a segment of the population who drinks/uses drugs, you convert them into desperate criminals, and then create a huge highly profitable black market industry to fill the supply void. Then you distribute the product to the poorest neighborhoods for distribution, where you know you will find the poor, the destitute, etc. who will be more than happy to sell for profit. Drug addiction didn't begin after prohibition. It was around long before drug prohibition. The only difference is that instead of paying ten dollars for a bag of dope from the black market a person bought it for a few cents at the local pharmacy. In those days most addicts did not need to resort to crime, there was no black market industry built around drugs, and a majority of those who were casual users or addicts also held jobs, paid taxes, owned homes, raised families, and maintained respectable positions within the framework of society. Then prohibition came along and changed all that creating the huge and powerful international drug trade we have come to know today.
This is why when you discuss the inmate population of America you cannot avoid talking about drug related crime because vast numbers of people that wind up in jail are there for petty and nonviolent drug offences, some not even for sales but mere possession. #The clear issue is that if anyone is really concerned about protecting innocent society members from "dopers" then the first step in the process should be to drastically reform today's drug laws and/or end prohibition altogether. #Prohibition is a massive failure. It has taken a massive toll on our police, on our tax dollars, on our medical resources, on our people both young and old. It's time we pull the plug on prohibition and bring about reform. Then there will be far less changes of muggings. Then we can focus on putting REAL #criminals who hurt people into #into jail, not some petty reefer smoker.
Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ July 04 2007,18:20)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ July 04 2007,18:14)]Forced sodomy seems good to you?
Not state forced sodomy.
Let's not forget about the poor kid that killed himself over the racially motivated sodomy in TX this week.
It happens on the outside as well.
Well, seeing that you put it like that, it's seems alright in prison then. After all, if it's good enough for the rest of us, it should be good enough for them.
w7lpn
07-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 05 2007,11:24)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 05 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,23:53)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
If you missed my point, I'll clarify. Someone earlier made a reference to her being rehab'd or that she was now a model citizen. I never mentioned drug crime, you did. I was making an example of the deciept of some so called "Model" criminals. Again, I care more about protecting innocent society members from thieving, stealing, murdering, criminals and dopers than I do worrying about those poor poor criminals, Wah! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We've been trying logic on liberals for years and have seen the evidence of it's failure on them, and Yes! a good mugging might help........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
She may have become a "model citizen" in jail, there's no way in hell she would have ever gotten out if Bush had commuted her sentence. Her crime was specifically horrific.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
Helllooooo? I didn't mention drugs, you did(Again). Read the whole thread, not just the part that pisses you off. I know your feelings on the whole drug thing and have some mixed feelings about the drug laws myself. However, someone saying, "I can't get cheap drugs so I'm gonna kill some people, steal their property, sell it and buy drugs." is a lame excuse to me. But then again I don't have a personal interest in drugs being leagalized.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
n2ize
07-06-2007, 02:04 AM
Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 05 2007,17:33)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ July 05 2007,11:24)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 05 2007,09:59)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 04 2007,23:53)]Quote[/b] (w7lpn @ July 04 2007,23:36)]In my 8 years of Prison Industries work, I never saw an inmate, with anything to loose, act out in plain sight of any corrections officer. They are ALL model inmates, while you're watching, or while they're locked-up. When do criminals commit crimes the most? When no ones watching. I have stood around a corner and listened to "Model inmates" within weeks of release, talk about how they'd keep from getting caught next time, and how they've gotten smarter than the cops now that they've been busted, then smile and change the subject when I walked around the corner. #Model Inmate? #Yah..... Right!?
Yeah, that is what happens when you treat drug addiction as a crime instead of a health issue. You lock the person up for a stretch but you do nothing to help cure the person of their addiction. meanwhile they build up more connections tips and pointers in prison. So now when the person gets out he learns that next time not to buy his dope on the street. Instead he finds a dealer that he calls on the phone and the guy brings it right to his door. And the beat goes on...
Now what all this has to do with the president (then govna) of tex making joke about a condemned person I have no idea.
If you missed my point, I'll clarify. Someone earlier made a reference to her being rehab'd or that she was now a model citizen. I never mentioned drug crime, you did. I was making an example of the deciept of some so called "Model" criminals. Again, I care more about protecting innocent society members from thieving, stealing, murdering, criminals and dopers than I do worrying about those poor poor criminals, Wah! # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We've been trying logic on liberals for years and have seen the evidence of it's failure on them, and Yes! a good mugging might help........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
She may have become a "model citizen" in jail, there's no way in hell she would have ever gotten out if Bush had commuted her sentence. Her crime was specifically horrific.
Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
Helllooooo? I didn't mention drugs, you did(Again). Read the whole thread, not just the part that pisses you off. I know your feelings on the whole drug thing and have some mixed feelings about the drug laws myself. However, someone saying, "I can't get cheap drugs so I'm gonna kill some people, steal their property, sell it and buy drugs." is a lame excuse to me. But then again I don't have a personal interest in drugs being leagalized.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You should have a personal interest in it if you care about doing something about crime.
KC2ESD
07-06-2007, 02:08 AM
A Murderer got the Death Punishment. Good I say.
The Punisher KC2ESD
n2ize
07-06-2007, 02:30 AM
Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ July 05 2007,19:08)]A Murderer got the Death Punishment. Good I say.
The Punisher KC2ESD
Jolly good show there. Brilliant analysis.
w7lpn
07-06-2007, 03:23 AM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 05 2007,19:30)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ July 05 2007,19:08)]A Murderer got the Death Punishment. Good I say.
The Punisher KC2ESD
Jolly good show there. Brilliant analysis.
First smart thing you've wrote on here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KB1KIX
07-06-2007, 03:36 AM
Quote[/b] (N8UZE @ July 05 2007,09:43)]Are you aware that the government just had one of if not the biggest revenue years ever? Typically tax cuts lead to improved economic conditions which lead to even more taxes being paid. If the government now turns around and increases taxes, the economy may slide and government revenues decrease.
will you stop speaking the truth.
You know some people can't handle basic economic principles.
Jonathan
Where do I find the official Bush "Countdown clock?" Never mind, I found it . Geez...18 more months of this crap.
w2amr
07-06-2007, 08:14 AM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ July 05 2007,19:30)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ July 05 2007,19:08)]A Murderer got the Death Punishment. Good I say.
The Punisher KC2ESD
Jolly good show there. Brilliant analysis.
How come this guy isn't running for president?
" A chicken in every pot, and a Focus in every driveway".