If todays media was there in 1944

[w4wtf]

If D-Day Had Been Reported On Today

by William A. Mayer

Tragic French Offensive Stalled on Beaches (Normandy, France - June 6, 1944) - Pandemonium, shock and sheer terror predominate today's eventsin Europe.

In an as yet unfolding apparent fiasco, Supreme Allied Commander, Gen. Dwight David Eisenhower's troops got a rude awakening this morning at Omaha Beach here in Normandy.

Due to insufficient planning and lack of a workable entrance strategy, soldiers of the 1st and 29th Infantry as well as Army Rangers are now bogged down and sustaining heavy casualties inflicted on them by dug-in insurgent positions located 170 feet above them on cliffs overlooking the beaches which now resemble blood soaked killing fields at the time of this mid-morning filing.

Bodies, parts of bodies, and blood are the order of the day here, the screams of the dying and the stillness of the dead mingle in testament to this terrible event.

Morale can only be described as extremely poor--in some companies all the officers have been either killed or incapacitated,leaving only poorly trained privates to fend for themselves.

Things appear to be going so poorly that Lt. General Omar Bradley has been rumored to be considering breaking off the attack entirely. As we go to press embattled U.S. president Franklin Delano Roosevelt's spokesman has not made himself available for comment at all, fueling fires that something has gone disastrously awry.

The government at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is in a distinct lock-down mode and the Vice President's location is presently and officially undisclosed.

Whether the second in command should have gone into hiding during such a crisis will have to be answered at some future time, but many agree it does not send a good signal.

Miles behind the beaches and adding to the chaos, U.S. Naval gunships have inflicted many friendly fire casualties, as huge high explosive projectiles rain death and destruction on unsuspecting Allied positions. The lack of training of Naval gunners has been called into question numerous times before and today's demonstration seems to underlie those concerns.

At Utah Beach the situation is also grim, elements of the 82nd and 101st Airborne seemed to be in disarray as they missed their primary drop zones behind the area believed to comprise the militant's front lines. Errant paratroopers have been hung up in trees, breaking arms and legs, rendering themselves easy targets for those defending this territory.

On the beach front itself the landing area was missed,catapulting U.S. forces nearly 2,000 yards South of the intended coordinates, thus placing them that much farther away from the German insurgents and unable to direct covering fire or materially add to the operation.

Casualties at day's end are nothing short of horrific; at least 8,000 and possibly as many as 9,000 were wounded in the haphazardly coordinated attack, which seems to have no unifying purpose or intent. Of this number at least 3,000 have been estimated as having been killed, making June 6th by far, the worst single day of the war which has dragged on now--with no exit strategy in sight--as the American economy still struggles to recover from Herbert Hoover's depression and its 25% unemployment.

Military spending has skyrocketed the national debt into uncharted regions, lending another cause for concern. When and if the current hostilities finally end it may take generations for the huge debt to be repaid.

On the planning end of things, experts wonder privately if enough troops were committed to the initial offensive and whether at least another 100,000 troops should have been added to the force structure before such an audacious undertaking. Communication problems also have made their presence felt making that an area for further investigation by the appropriate governmental committees.

On the home front, questions and concern have been voiced. A telephone poll has shown dwindling support for the wheel-chair bound Commander In Chief, which might indicate a further erosion of support for his now three year-old global war.

Of course, the President's precarious health has always been a question. He has just recently recovered from pneumonia and speculation persists whether or not he has sufficient stamina to properly sustain the war effort. This remains a topic of furious discussion among those questioning his competency.

Today's costly and chaotic landing compounds the President's already large credibility problem.

More darkly, this phase of the war, commencing less than six months before the next general election, gives some the impression that Roosevelt may be using this offensive simply as a means to securere-election in the fall.

Underlining the less than effective Allied attack, German casualties--most of them innocent and hapless conscripts--seem not to be as severe as would be imagined. A German minister who requested anonymity stated categorically that "the aggressors were being driven back into the sea amidst heavy casualties, the German people seek no wider war."

"The news couldn't be better," Adolph Hitler said when he wasfirst informed of the D-Day assault earlier this afternoon.

"As long as they were in Britain we couldn't get at them. Now we have them where we can destroy them."

German minister Goebbels had been told of the Allied airborne landings at 0400 hours.

"Thank God, at last," he said. "This is the final round."

[al2i]

No cigar OM. The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. They were generally supportive for years in fact.


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.

[w4wtf]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on the deck of the Missouri.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq and no end is in sight.
Are you advocating that we declare total war on Islamic terrorists, those opposing us in Iraq and thier supporters and fight them with tenacity, rules of engagement, and effort we put into fighting the Japanese?

If so, I agree. If not, your analogy with timelines is not legitimate, for you are comparing a very limited fight with total war.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 21 2007,10:47)]If so, I agree. If not, your analogy with timelines is not legitimate, for you are comparing a very limited fight with total war.
The timelines are the whole point OM. The press was pretty easy on Decider George for quite a while.

You are right that an analogy is not very good with WWII because we were directly and brutally attacked by Japan with thousands of our citizens butchered, whereas Iraq had not harmed a single American in years.

[n2ize]

Different time, different war, different reasons, different circumstances, different conditions, different leadership. Highly doubt WW2 would be reported much differently today than back then. regardless, there is no real comparison that can be drawn between the battles we fought then and todays artifically created and corrupt war.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 22 2007,03:27)]Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 21 2007,10:47)]If so, I agree. If not, your analogy with timelines is not legitimate, for you are comparing a very limited fight with total war.
The timelines are the whole point OM. #The press was pretty easy on Decider George for quite a while. #

You are right that an analogy is not very good with WWII because we were directly and brutally attacked by Japan with thousands of our citizens butchered, whereas Iraq had not harmed a single American in years.
Are you saying timelines determine bias of coverage?

[w4wtf]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 22 2007,03:34)]Different time, different war, different reasons, different circumstances, different conditions, different leadership. Highly doubt WW2 would be reported much differently today than back then. #regardless, there is no real comparison that can be drawn between the battles we fought then and todays artifically created and corrupt war.
OK, take Iraq out of the picture even. Obviously if you disagree with something it is quite OK in your book for the reporting to be biased, so long as it is to your favor.

Do you support the biased reporting from Afghanistan?

[KA8NCR]

The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?

[w4wtf]

Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
So that explains why I was sitting in Afghanistan and we were all scratching our heads any time we saw news coverage of the very war we were fighting at that very time?

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,13:05)]When did Germany invade the US?
They didn't. Japan attacked us. When we declared war on Japan, Germany declared war on us and got us involved in Europe. Up to that point, the US had remained officially neutral in the European war.

A small group of radical extremists attacked us on 11SE01. We attacked the country that was harbouring them, and using overwhelming fire-power, quickly drove out the extremist regime controlling that country. But before going on to capture and punish those who masterminded the attack, we dropped the ball and unilaterally attacked another, sovereign country that had not attacked us. That country consists of factions of people who have hated each other for centuries but who were arbitrarily thrown together inside artificial borders decades ago, and the only way that bogus "nation" was ever held together was by brutal, totalitarian dictatorship. We ousted the paper-tiger dictator with a big mouth and little else to show but a rag-tag army and a goon squad that frightened his subjects into submission, and now we are stuck in the middle of a civil war as those factions fight each other, with no workable strategy to ever be able to hold those factions together now that the genie is out of the bottle.

All the Decider's horses and all the Decider's men will never be able to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.

[KD6NIG]

Another difference is the simple fact that, in these times, we wouldn't have sent a bunch of men to take a beach a-la WWII. We would send bombers with much better precision than what we had during that era.

Remember, WWII ended because of a large bomb being dropped that killed a bunch of people. Nowadays a more precise bombing would occur to "cut the head off the leadership" so to speak.

Its hard to compare the eras simply because of the technology, much less the situations involved. A "blitzkrieg" kind of attack nowadays would result in most of the rushing people being eliminated before they even got close. We have targeting systems that would almost ensure hits, versus what we had back in that time, which was human targeting which wasn't precise.

Plus, simply put, with the eyes we have in space now, the sneak attack that brought us into the war would have never happened. We would have known the Japanese fleet sailed moments after they did. In fact, I'm betting someone would have sat and watched them weigh anchor.

Different times, different situations.

[N5NPO]

Here is something else to consider...
Why did we level a lot of German cities?
To destroy the capability to manufacture weapons.
Where in the middle east are the terrorists manufacturing the weapons they are using to attack the rest of the world with???

[wa8rti]

To K4KYV: nice summary and well said!!!

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts?

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 22 2007,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
So that explains why I was sitting in Afghanistan and we were all scratching our heads any time we saw news coverage of the very war we were fighting at that very time?
It's amazing isn't it? You, with your first hand experience is being told not to believe your own lying eyes. The press did not not tell the truth during WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan or Iraq, yet those who have been so badly misinformed seem almost jealous of their ignorance.

It must be some form of residual tribalistic instinct of the sort most often seen displayed at high school competitions. To say that it is absolute is to understate the case.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service. The sacrifice you and your fellow warriors have made on behalf of our country is greatly appreciated.

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 22 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? #They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts? #

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ
Well sir, Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. Saddam supposedly plotted to kill a former US president. An act of war?
Hitler invaded a soverign nation, so did Saddam.
Saddam attacked more than one of his neighbors and used WMD's (gas) on the Kurds. Hitler used gas on the jews and others. Hitler also attacked his neighbors.
Saddam violated numerous UN resoloutions including the agreed terms of the cease fire from Gulf war 1. Hitler violated the treaty of Versallies.
I is not like we invaded a nice friendly country that was minding it's own bussiness oh, like Denmark.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 22 2007,19:33)]Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 22 2007,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
So that explains why I was sitting in Afghanistan and we were all scratching our heads any time we saw news coverage of the very war we were fighting at that very time?
It's amazing isn't it? #You, with your first hand experience is being told not to believe your own lying eyes. #The press did not not tell the truth during WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan or Iraq, yet those who have been so badly misinformed seem almost jealous of their ignorance.

It must be some form of residual tribalistic instinct of the sort most often seen displayed at high school competitions. To say that it is absolute is to understate the case.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service. The sacrifice you and your fellow warriors have made on behalf of our country is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your well wishes. I assure you if I had known the level of the deceit I would NOT have served voluntarily. Likely I would have been drafted as I could not affort college, or a run to Canada.

I spent some time as a civilian in Nam, an had the "Pleasure" of hanging around the press briefings, a thousand watt light bulb goes off.

I am also fully aware of the lies in by and from our government.....after all we were/are at war. What is unfortunate is the way the press thinks we are Mushrooms. And how this country is going down the toilet.

We must not lose site of the fact that this war was started by the rag heads, as was WW2 by the Japs and Germans. I have no problem taking it to them and leaving their heads in their sand.

Someone said once "Truth is the first casuality of war".
He was correct.

Get over it.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 22 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? #They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts? #

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ
Well sir, Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. Saddam supposedly plotted to kill a former US president. An act of war?
Hitler invaded a soverign nation, so did Saddam.
Saddam attacked more than one of his neighbors and used WMD's (gas) on the Kurds. Hitler used gas on the jews and others. Hitler also attacked his neighbors.
Saddam violated numerous UN resoloutions including the agreed terms of the cease fire from Gulf war 1. Hitler violated the treaty of Versallies.
I is not like we invaded a nice friendly country that was minding it's own bussiness oh, like Denmark.
Your sequence of events is indeed flawed.

1. JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor Hawaii, thus declairing WAR upon the US.

(similar to a recent event on 9/11/01 by another group of idiots).

2. In front of a Joint Session of Congress the President, Franklyn Delanao Roosevelt returned to compliment by declaring WAR on the Japanese Empire and all their allies. Which consisted mainly of the countries of Germany and Italy, and their AXIS allies.

Hitler himself was not thrilled at the Japanese for this attack. And rightly so. He knew the USA could and would fight him to the ground.

Wonder if he would feel the same way today with all the knee jerk gutless left wing wacko's we got now?
Not that I believe it had all that much to do with it, but Sadam's attack on Bush one should be considered an act of war. But of course Bill was too busy hunting for another BJ to notice.

That's one of this countries MAJOR PROBLEMS...we let the world walk on us. They think they can do what the hell they please. And up till Bush 2 they did just that. And they are in shock. Who cares? I don't.

Too bad Bush lost it somewhere down the line. I hope you like rags around your heads, and your women demeaned to a non entity. You think Communism is/was bad? You ain't seen nothing yet.

Dan/W4NTI

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 23 2007,16:53)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 22 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? #They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts? #

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ
Well sir, Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. Saddam supposedly plotted to kill a former US president. An act of war?
Hitler invaded a soverign nation, so did Saddam.
Saddam attacked more than one of his neighbors and used WMD's (gas) on the Kurds. Hitler used gas on the jews and others. Hitler also attacked his neighbors.
Saddam violated numerous UN resoloutions including the agreed terms of the cease fire from Gulf war 1. Hitler violated the treaty of Versallies.
I is not like we invaded a nice friendly country that was minding it's own bussiness oh, like Denmark.
Your sequence of events is indeed flawed.

1. #JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor Hawaii, #thus declairing WAR upon the US.

(similar to a recent event on 9/11/01 by another group of idiots). #

2. #In front of a Joint Session of Congress the President, #Franklyn Delanao Roosevelt returned to compliment by declaring WAR on the Japanese Empire and all their allies. #Which consisted mainly of the countries of Germany and Italy, and their AXIS allies.

Hitler himself was not thrilled at the Japanese for this attack. #And rightly so. #He knew the USA could and would fight him to the ground.

Wonder if he would feel the same way today with all the knee jerk gutless left wing wacko's we got now?
Not that I believe it had all that much to do with it, but Sadam's attack on Bush one should be considered an act of war. #But of course Bill was too busy hunting for another BJ to notice.

That's one of this countries MAJOR PROBLEMS...we let the world walk on us. #They think they can do what the hell they please. #And up till Bush 2 they did just that. #And they are in shock. #Who cares? #I don't.

Too bad Bush lost it somewhere down the line. #I hope you like rags around your heads, and your women demeaned to a non entity. #You think Communism is/was bad? #You ain't seen nothing yet.

Dan/W4NTI
I thought we cut off deliveries of raw material to Japan? What di they call that? an embargo?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] ]William M. Arkin

on National and Homeland Security

World War II and Iraq: It's More Than Just Days That Are Different

Today's news that the Iraq war now exceeds World War II in number of days doesn't strike me as commentary on the failures of the Bush administration or Donald Rumsfeld.

It strikes me first as a failure of official Washington, a place and a culture that assumes that America can shape and bend the world from its isolated enclaves, whether that is inside the Beltway or inside the Green Zone.

Second, it strikes me as a failure of the country: We are ever so ready to thrust the military burden onto fewer and fewer shoulders, living on the credit and spending vast sums to equip and network a hyper-modern force that we think can abolish the laws of physics and humankind.

Finally, it strikes me as a failure of our very military: They seem so confused and foiled wherever they go.

One thousand three hundred and forty-seven days. Yesterday, the Iraq war -- Operation Iraqi Freedom -- matched World War II in the number of days America has been fighting. Today we have exceeded the benchmark.

From Pearl Harbor to VJ Day, the United States defeated Japan, Germany, and Italy in two oceans and on three continents in less than four years, and yet in Iraq, our modern, all-volunteer, professional military can not defeat or even subdue a country of 26 million, where the "enemy," even by the military's own accounting, numbers less than 2,000 foreign fighters and terrorists, and less than 50,000 insurgents.

There is too much dissimilarity to make this an entirely valid comparison. In one war, all of the resources of the nation were brought to bear and the entire nation was shaped for generations to come by the national security institutions created in those dark days.

In Iraq, the vast majority of Americans hardly notice we are at war.

The two wars though do reflect the snapshots of our society.

World War II was fought in the day of saving bonds and rationing: Our forefathers spent what they had. They scraped the bottom and sacrificed to earn security.

Iraq, on the other hand, is a credit card war. We spend $8 billion a month to fight in Iraq and no one makes a financial sacrifice. No one even notices.

The Baker-Hamilton commission -- the Iraq Study Group -- now promises to refinance the effort: By the end of next year, we will be seemingly out of debt and out of Iraq, thanking the wise men for extricating us.

But the democracy bubble will also have burst in the Middle East and we will be temporarily humbled in our own limitations. That is, until the next wise men sell us the prospectus that they can now indeed gentrify the region to our design.


And what of our professional military? You've heard my tired lament before that we salute and genuflect and thank them for their sacrifice, a sacrifice we don't have to make ourselves. You've heard as well my cranky view that the military itself deserves much of the blame.

When the history of the Iraq war is written, perhaps the aficionados will remember that it was the 3rd Infantry Division that galloped to Baghdad. Beyond that though, there has been such a profusion of units and commanders who have rotated in and out of the country every few months, even I as close observer can hardly remember their names.

In other words, we have a flawed institution in our midst. The U.S. military is unable to understand or adjust to the enemy and the situation on the ground; one reason is U.S. military culture itself -- with constant rotations in and out of the country and with so many amenities and so much "force protection" demanded on the ground. This just doesn't make for the kind of intimacy and learning that war demands.

Sure there are those who have their theories about how to defeat the insurgency in a different way, who argue for more resources -- for a higher credit limit.

But I detect that the vast majority of the military, particularly those in the higher ranks, are only too happy to transfer their balances somewhere else, to refinance and bug out, just as long as it doesn't affect their future credit rating.

The bill will have to be paid tomorrow. But for now, we can transfer our balance and admire new interest rates and breathing space. No one's going to call this the greatest generation.

November 27, 2006.

And Dick and George aren't FDR either. As for your observation that you were in Afghanistan yet the news seemed to tell a different story from what you were experiencing; I live in a relatively small city. My experiences here are pretty nice and there is little crime. If I go 2-1/2 miles away, that all changes. The houses are dilapidated, the crime is skyrocketing, there are hookers on the streets, cops are involved in shootouts, there are muggings, rapes and robberies. Would I be right in saying my experiences here are great - pretty much. Is that the real story for the city on the whole? Nope. So, I suppose by extrapolation, I should be saying the news is biased and against my city since it isn't showing any of the good news that I see every day?

All I can say is it isn't news when someone holds a door for a woman or when someone fetches a treed kitten. Have a fire or a murder and it's front page. People must like it. The papers here sell millions of copies a day and the TV stations have yet to cancel a newscast. The day they do, I'll still get my news, just someplace else.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 24 2007,00:23)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 23 2007,16:53)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 22 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? #They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts? #

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ
Well sir, Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. Saddam supposedly plotted to kill a former US president. An act of war?
Hitler invaded a soverign nation, so did Saddam.
Saddam attacked more than one of his neighbors and used WMD's (gas) on the Kurds. Hitler used gas on the jews and others. Hitler also attacked his neighbors.
Saddam violated numerous UN resoloutions including the agreed terms of the cease fire from Gulf war 1. Hitler violated the treaty of Versallies.
I is not like we invaded a nice friendly country that was minding it's own bussiness oh, like Denmark.
Your sequence of events is indeed flawed.

1. #JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor Hawaii, #thus declairing WAR upon the US.

(similar to a recent event on 9/11/01 by another group of idiots). #

2. #In front of a Joint Session of Congress the President, #Franklyn Delanao Roosevelt returned to compliment by declaring WAR on the Japanese Empire and all their allies. #Which consisted mainly of the countries of Germany and Italy, and their AXIS allies.

Hitler himself was not thrilled at the Japanese for this attack. #And rightly so. #He knew the USA could and would fight him to the ground.

Wonder if he would feel the same way today with all the knee jerk gutless left wing wacko's we got now?
Not that I believe it had all that much to do with it, but Sadam's attack on Bush one should be considered an act of war. #But of course Bill was too busy hunting for another BJ to notice.

That's one of this countries MAJOR PROBLEMS...we let the world walk on us. #They think they can do what the hell they please. #And up till Bush 2 they did just that. #And they are in shock. #Who cares? #I don't.

Too bad Bush lost it somewhere down the line. #I hope you like rags around your heads, and your women demeaned to a non entity. #You think Communism is/was bad? #You ain't seen nothing yet.

Dan/W4NTI
I thought we cut off deliveries of raw material to Japan? What di they call that? an embargo?
Are you refering to the US stopping transfer of scrap metal to Japan ? Or us helping in the Embargo to stop Oil and Rubber to them?

I have no problem with either, you see they were using those materials to fuel their war machine. Which at the time was busy eating up the Pacific and China.

DLJ

[w4wtf]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ June 24 2007,01:09)]And Dick and George aren't FDR either. #As for your observation that you were in Afghanistan yet the news seemed to tell a different story from what you were experiencing; I live in a relatively small city. #My experiences here are pretty nice and there is little crime. #If I go 2-1/2 miles away, that all changes. #The houses are dilapidated, the crime is skyrocketing, there are hookers on the streets, cops are involved in shootouts, there are muggings, rapes and robberies. #Would I be right in saying my experiences here are great - pretty much. #Is that the real story for the city on the whole? #Nope. #So, I suppose by extrapolation, I should be saying the news is biased and against my city since it isn't showing any of the good news that I see every day?
I suppose if you had no idea what was going on beyond your neighborhood, sure.

But we were not isolated to just what was going on in our area. Thanks to todays technology, we were able to stay up to date on every signifigant act, good or bad, taking place in pretty much real time as it was reported. I admit the PFC down in the hut we lived in was not as in tough, but the leaders had a very clear picture of events.

Such news stories such as "US losng control of Afghan countryside" we would laugh at. "3000 Taliban fighters about to pounce" was reported on one show....they must have gotten really cold feet because maybe 30 popped up.

We saw one "expert" going on about how the ANA (Afghan National Army) was an utter failure and incapable of ever conducting any military operations, and just the day before we returned from a 3 day mission where ANA guarded our right flank, and we trusted them to do so.

I actually had access to all the press releases that were issued, and after a while I wondered why they even bothered. 4-8 positive, major news stories coming out of the country every single day and probably less than 1% ever saw print outside of a military publication.

At least the local news, at least around here, runs some positive accounts and usually ends with a decent positive human interest story.

Hell, even when I was over there I had posters on this very forum posting how Afghanistan was supposedly unraveling and going to be an utter failure...and who just dismissed my first hand accounts as a person on the ground as "misinformed".Quote[/b] ]


All I can say is it isn't news when someone holds a door for a woman or when someone fetches a treed kitten. #Have a fire or a murder and it's front page. #People must like it. #The papers here sell millions of copies a day and the TV stations have yet to cancel a newscast. #The day they do, I'll still get my news, just someplace else.
Keep that in mind when you say Iraq is an failure and that we can never win. Keep in mind that the media will only give you just that.

Sad thing is, thnaks to lazy journalists it seems to even be getting worse than that!

Now some US military officers, too, charge that a clever enemy media campaign is gaining traction and that the US is losing the war in information about battlefield operations.

A Marine officer whose credibility I trust cites an operation of success in the Fallujah region earlier this month that was reported as a disaster by US and British media companies. His unit had established a new precinct headquarters for Iraqi police, Army troops, and US Marines to patrol and protect a dedicated area. It was well received by the local populace and almost 200 Iraqis volunteered for police recruitment. Insurgents sought to disrupt it but were routed.

Meanwhile, in a separate firefight at a makeshift suicide vehicle factory, three separate suicide bombers were killed, two suicide trucks were discovered and blown up, and foreign and other fighters were killed or captured. On the defending side, one civilian and one policeman were wounded, with no US or other casualties. "The enemy was killed in his tracks; his best weapon was discovered before it could cause any harm," says the officer, "but Western media reported no enemy killed in these operations, 28 civilians killed, and 50 civilians wounded. We are getting demolished," the Marine officer says, "by nefarious enemy media outlets … 'reporters' or 'sources' for Arab and other news agencies either on insurgent payrolls or who have known sympathies with insurgent operations, and by collective Western media that are often being manipulated by enemy elements. What incredible economy of effort the enemy is afforded when US media is their megaphone. Why spend precious resources on developing your own propaganda machine when you can make your opponent's own news outlets scream your message louder than you could ever have hoped to do independently?"


Full Story (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070620/cm_csm/yhughes20_1)

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 23 2007,16:39)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 22 2007,19:33)]Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 22 2007,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
So that explains why I was sitting in Afghanistan and we were all scratching our heads any time we saw news coverage of the very war we were fighting at that very time?
It's amazing isn't it? #You, with your first hand experience is being told not to believe your own lying eyes. #The press did not not tell the truth during WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan or Iraq, yet those who have been so badly misinformed seem almost jealous of their ignorance.

It must be some form of residual tribalistic instinct of the sort most often seen displayed at high school competitions. To say that it is absolute is to understate the case.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service. The sacrifice you and your fellow warriors have made on behalf of our country is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your well wishes. #I assure you if I had known the level of the deceit I would NOT have served voluntarily. #Likely I would have been drafted as I could not affort college, or a run to Canada.

I spent some time as a civilian in Nam, an had the "Pleasure" of hanging around the press briefings, #a thousand watt light bulb goes off. #

I am also fully aware of the lies in by and from our government.....after all we were/are at war. #What is unfortunate is the way the press thinks we are Mushrooms. #And how this country is going down the toilet.

We must not lose site of the fact that this war was started by the rag heads, #as was WW2 by the Japs and Germans. #I have no problem taking it to them and leaving their heads in their sand.

Someone said once #"Truth is the first casuality of war".
He was correct.

Get over it.
Who are the "rag heads" and where are they ? I like you're style of generalizing a diverse range of people and declaring them thy enemy.
Truth is the first casualty of war. it dies the day Bush attacked iraq.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 25 2007,15:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan
You mean perhaps if we round up all those who dare to disagree with the president ? Rest assured, the war will continue, probably longer.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 25 2007,14:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. They were generally supportive for years in fact.


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan
I think it will be easier to finally extinguish freedom in America as you seem to desire than it will be to pacify Iraq. Just give everyone a flag to wave and a stirring song to sing about how free they are while you make 'em all orderly, well-behaved and obedient.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 25 2007,16:09)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 23 2007,16:39)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 22 2007,19:33)]Quote[/b] (w4wtf @ June 22 2007,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
So that explains why I was sitting in Afghanistan and we were all scratching our heads any time we saw news coverage of the very war we were fighting at that very time?
It's amazing isn't it? #You, with your first hand experience is being told not to believe your own lying eyes. #The press did not not tell the truth during WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan or Iraq, yet those who have been so badly misinformed seem almost jealous of their ignorance.

It must be some form of residual tribalistic instinct of the sort most often seen displayed at high school competitions. To say that it is absolute is to understate the case.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service. The sacrifice you and your fellow warriors have made on behalf of our country is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your well wishes. #I assure you if I had known the level of the deceit I would NOT have served voluntarily. #Likely I would have been drafted as I could not affort college, or a run to Canada.

I spent some time as a civilian in Nam, an had the "Pleasure" of hanging around the press briefings, #a thousand watt light bulb goes off. #

I am also fully aware of the lies in by and from our government.....after all we were/are at war. #What is unfortunate is the way the press thinks we are Mushrooms. #And how this country is going down the toilet.

We must not lose site of the fact that this war was started by the rag heads, #as was WW2 by the Japs and Germans. #I have no problem taking it to them and leaving their heads in their sand.

Someone said once #"Truth is the first casuality of war".
He was correct.

Get over it.
Who are the "rag heads" and where are they ? I like you're style of generalizing a diverse range of people and declaring them thy enemy.
Truth is the first casualty of war. it dies the day Bush attacked iraq.
It is OBVIOUS you have no background in tactics in a war situation, and from your comments to date it is unlikely you would be willing to listen.

As time progresses and we again pull out and leave utter mayhem in our wake it will be shown the Bush plan was "initially" a good one. As in VN, it was gutted by the socialistic left. Problem is this time YOU and your ilk will be at the receiving end of the fire.

You ask "Who are the ragheads". They are they Aholes that STARTED this Jihad. I don't for a minute accept that there are degree's of terrorists. In MY BOOK ALL MUSLIMS are suspect. Of course I had the same attitude while in Vietnam. I stayed alive, it workes for me. Don't like it? I don't give a rip.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 25 2007,16:10)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 25 2007,15:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan
You mean perhaps if we round up all those who dare to disagree with the president ? Rest assured, the war will continue, probably longer.
Pull in your finger nails....of course not everyone that disagrees....just the Muslims and the lefties. There the enemy. Go look in a mirror, you seem to be having a problem figuring out the obvious.

Dan

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 25 2007,16:10)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 25 2007,15:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan
You mean perhaps if we round up all those who dare to disagree with the president ? Rest assured, the war will continue, probably longer.
I missed the last part.....How would it last longer ? Are you thinking of the Hippie/Yippie/Yuppie hey days ? Dream on. The Nam Vets are HERE. Think about that.

[w4nti]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 25 2007,16:18)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 25 2007,14:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 21 2007,11:43)]No cigar OM. #The press was generally quite supportive of our Big-Spending, Sino-Hispanic huckster's Iraq adventure. #They were generally supportive for years in fact. #


The duration of major hostilities took 3 years, 8 months and 26 days from when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 to when Japan signed the articles of surrender on September 2, 1945.

There have been 4 years, 3 months and 2 days of continuous bloodshed since Bush invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, with no end in sight.

In other words, it took 1365 days to pacify Japan, but it has been 1555 days since Bush attacked Iraq -- and no end is in sight.
Perhaps if we would round up all the left wing, knee jerks out there and put them in camps, like we did the ENEMY during WW2 things would not take so long...What do you think?


Dan
I think it will be easier to finally extinguish freedom in America as you seem to desire than it will be to pacify Iraq. #Just give everyone a flag to wave and a stirring song to sing about how free they are while you make 'em all orderly, well-behaved and obedient.
Freedom is one thing I cherish and actually thought I was putting my life on line for at one time. Course I know better now.

I have no problem with discussions. I do have problems with civil unrest. Like when your buddies threatned to deface the Vietnam memorial in DC. Course their attitude changed when a LARGE contingent of Vets showed up. BTW....what ever happened to Fonda and Shehah for that one? GUTLESS PUKES.

All mouth STILL.

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 24 2007,15:41)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 24 2007,00:23)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 23 2007,16:53)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,20:13)]Quote[/b] (w4nti @ June 22 2007,18:50)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 22 2007,06:05)]Quote[/b] (ka8ncr @ June 22 2007,05:42)]The media reports things that you don't want to hear in your utopian Neocon world, so naturally, the media is biased. #Ever occur to you that maybe *you* are biased and not the media?

Look, I know "the media". #These people will sell out their grandmothers to meet their next deadline at 6:00 p.m. #They go off half cocked on any number of stories and it isn't because they want to push some liberal lefty slant; it's because they're under tremendous pressure and sloppy.

Spit the snorkel out of your mouth and pull your head out into the open air and consider for a moment that the reason there's so much stuff in the media that you don't want to hear is because these jackasses in government are doing bad things.
Are you saying a neocon (whatever the heck that is) world would be utopia?
Look, how many people died in the D day invasion?
When did Germany invade the US?
You do not have to make insults to make a point, or do you?
When did Germany invade the US? #They didn't.....but do you think Adolph Hitler declaring war on us AFTER the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor counts? #

You sir, are a un-educated fool.

DLJ
Well sir, Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan. Saddam supposedly plotted to kill a former US president. An act of war?
Hitler invaded a soverign nation, so did Saddam.
Saddam attacked more than one of his neighbors and used WMD's (gas) on the Kurds. Hitler used gas on the jews and others. Hitler also attacked his neighbors.
Saddam violated numerous UN resoloutions including the agreed terms of the cease fire from Gulf war 1. Hitler violated the treaty of Versallies.
I is not like we invaded a nice friendly country that was minding it's own bussiness oh, like Denmark.
Your sequence of events is indeed flawed.

1. #JAPAN attacked us at Pearl Harbor Hawaii, #thus declairing WAR upon the US.

(similar to a recent event on 9/11/01 by another group of idiots). #

2. #In front of a Joint Session of Congress the President, #Franklyn Delanao Roosevelt returned to compliment by declaring WAR on the Japanese Empire and all their allies. #Which consisted mainly of the countries of Germany and Italy, and their AXIS allies.

Hitler himself was not thrilled at the Japanese for this attack. #And rightly so. #He knew the USA could and would fight him to the ground.

Wonder if he would feel the same way today with all the knee jerk gutless left wing wacko's we got now?
Not that I believe it had all that much to do with it, but Sadam's attack on Bush one should be considered an act of war. #But of course Bill was too busy hunting for another BJ to notice.

That's one of this countries MAJOR PROBLEMS...we let the world walk on us. #They think they can do what the hell they please. #And up till Bush 2 they did just that. #And they are in shock. #Who cares? #I don't.

Too bad Bush lost it somewhere down the line. #I hope you like rags around your heads, and your women demeaned to a non entity. #You think Communism is/was bad? #You ain't seen nothing yet.

Dan/W4NTI
I thought we cut off deliveries of raw material to Japan? What di they call that? an embargo?
Are you refering to the US stopping transfer of scrap metal to Japan ? #Or us helping in the Embargo to stop Oil and Rubber to them?

I have no problem with either, #you see they were using those materials to fuel their war machine. #Which at the time was busy eating up the Pacific and China. #

DLJ
That's considered an act of war by some nations. Not us though, we let our enemy blow up our troops, blow up our ships, blow up our embassies, take over our embassies anf level our tallets buildings.

What war? No country did it, not Afghanistan, not Saudi Arabi, not Iraq, not Iran, not Syria. Life in the USA just goes on...

[K3XR]

Why LIB PBS should not get one cent of taxpayer or fundraising dollars. #

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007....ot.html (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/06/busted-pbs-official-tell-producer-not.html)