Is an Iraqi a human life? [Archive]

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K6BBC

06-05-2007, 03:59 PM

It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc

KB1GYQ

06-05-2007, 04:01 PM

Thou shalt not use "Bush" and "think" in the same sentence unless thou dost also use a negative.

N5NPO

06-05-2007, 04:10 PM

Life is life... Especially innocent unborn life... I don't see what is so hard to figure out about that... Some on "the left" argue it is ok to kill unborn babies becuase of the "mother's right to choose" but it is not ok to condem serial killers because it is cruel... No one argues the Father's rights... Women cannot yet impregnate themselves, but they have the right to either terminate a childs life or force the father to pay for the support of the child for upwards of 18 years... Equal rights under the law indeed...
As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?

K6BBC

06-05-2007, 04:12 PM

w3bny

06-05-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
Simple..

They are not White Anglo Saxon Protestant God Pheerin Republican Party members.

God Guns and George...God Guns and George.

K6UEY

06-05-2007, 04:31 PM

Isn't that like asking if there are any intelligent Democrats ??
Your first answer may be correct,but then again more thought on the subject the possibility still remains that your first answer just maybe premature !!

It is some what like all the bushbashing,the man is a well educated man yet he is talked of as though he is some pot bellied Yahoo sitting in front of a TV set.
Now I ask you which one became the President of the United States,the Harvard / Yale graduate ,or the Yahoo in front of the TV set ??

Only in America can you display your ignorance in public and be joined by your neighbor !! # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

N2RJ

06-05-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,10:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
Come on bbc, you know better than that.

Of course they are not a life. They are merely collateral damage, just like an unborn baby is an unwanted clump of biological material.

w3bny

06-05-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:31)]Isn't that like asking if there are any intelligent Democrats ??
Your first answer may be correct,but then again more thought on the subject the possibility still remains that your first answer just maybe premature !!

It is some what like all the bushbashing,the man is a well educated man yet he is talked of as though he is some pot bellied Yahoo sitting in front of a TV set.
Now I ask you which one became the President of the United States,the Harvard / Yale graduate ,or the Yahoo in front of the TV set ??

Only in America can you display your ignorance in public and be joined by your neighbor !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I see...Higher ejumakation makez it all better.

Ted Kaczynski went to Harvard and I bet at least he can pronounce nuclear

KA8NCR

06-05-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:31)]Isn't that like asking if there are any intelligent Democrats ??
Your first answer may be correct,but then again more thought on the subject the possibility still remains that your first answer just maybe premature !!

It is some what like all the bushbashing,the man is a well educated man yet he is talked of as though he is some pot bellied Yahoo sitting in front of a TV set.
Now I ask you which one became the President of the United States,the Harvard / Yale graduate ,or the Yahoo in front of the TV set ??

Only in America can you display your ignorance in public and be joined by your neighbor !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Thanks Orv, that's ten seconds of my life that I won't get back. Care to actually tell us something that's relevant to the thread or would you like to continue ad hominem attacks and the general posting of sputum?

K6UEY

06-05-2007, 04:39 PM

President JIMMA could not pronounce it, and Nuclear Energy was his speciality !!

w3bny

06-05-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:39)]President JIMMA could not pronounce it, and Nuclear Energy was his speciality !!
True...but at least he could comprehend it and acutally worked in that field.

Try again?

VO1GXG

06-05-2007, 04:45 PM

Every one deserves the right to live life the way they want to ! ( and yes that includes bush who should be shot for the heck of it ! ) and thats that . The young generation has spoken ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

K6UEY

06-05-2007, 04:46 PM

Fair enough, just as GWB knows oil and how they in the field think, he worked in that Field !!Most likely he knows far more than the pot bellied Democratic Socialist in front of the TV set or on the Internet!!

K6UEY

06-05-2007, 04:49 PM

VO1GXG,
Sounds like we have another Democrat waiting in the wings to express his well thought out opinion !!

06-05-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. #A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). #There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. #In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. #The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. #Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. #Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? #This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
Bush is pro-life yet he supports the death penalty. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

w3bny

06-05-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:46)]Fair enough, just as GWB knows oil and how they in the field think, he worked in that Field !!Most likely he knows far more than the pot bellied Democratic Socialist in front of the TV set or on the Internet!!
worked in the field as what? That foo wouldnt know a Derrick from Bo Derrick!

k4kro

06-05-2007, 04:57 PM

As usual, lots of blame for Bush and the U.S. but not not one word of condemnation for the daily mass murder activities of Al Qaida and other militant Islamic groups. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

K6BBC

06-05-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote[/b] (k4kro @ June 05 2007,09:57)]As usual, lots of blame for Bush and the U.S. but not not one word of condemnation for the daily mass murder activities of Al Qaida and other militant Islamic groups. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Al Qaida was not in Iraq. Saddam kept the radical Muslims under control. Iraq was a secular country. Saddam had Christians in his government. Did you happen to know these facts or are you still under the propaganda thumb of Bush?

bbc

N2RJ

06-05-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote[/b] (k4kro @ June 05 2007,11:57)]As usual, lots of blame for Bush and the U.S. but not not one word of condemnation for the daily mass murder activities of Al Qaida and other militant Islamic groups. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Last I checked, Al-Q has still taken fewer lives than the US military in Iraq.

And Al-Q wouldn't even be there had we not decided to invade.

ad4mg

06-05-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote[/b] (k4kro @ June 05 2007,12:57)]As usual, lots of blame for Bush and the U.S. but not not one word of condemnation for the daily mass murder activities of Al Qaida and other militant Islamic groups. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Let's address your concern, starting with the Al Qaida leader, who was responsible for murdering thousands of innocent American civilians, on American soil.

Why does this sitting president seem to not care about bringing Osama bin Laden to justice as promised?

I don't want more neocon excuses. I want results. I want this president to fulfill his promise to bring bin Laden to justice.

He won't. Osama bin Laden will die of old age, and will continue to direct attacks towards this country until we get the cowards out of government, starting in the White House.

The man should at the very least be good for his word. He promised. And he lied. Again.

06-05-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote[/b] (k4kro @ June 05 2007,09:57)]As usual, lots of blame for Bush and the U.S. but not not one word of condemnation for the daily mass murder activities of Al Qaida and other militant Islamic groups. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
His REACTION to these groups is what makes people mad. His resisting to how the American people want to fight the war is why people are so mad.
This is displayed by his popularity ratings, he said he won't run the country by those numbers, but when they hit an all time low, it is a signal that he is doing something wrong. A sign that he should pay more attention to "His people"

N6KX

06-05-2007, 05:17 PM

GXG... you're lucky you don't live in the US. If it were otherwise, your statement would earn you a visit from the guys in dark suits, dark glasses, ever-present earphone in one ear, and who'll pull up to your home in a dark-windowed Crown Vic... not mention the possible reward of a one-way ticket to Gitmo.

Violence begets violence. Think twice before resorting to it or suggesting it.

N6KX http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

w3bny

06-05-2007, 05:34 PM

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b220/Bunnieman/Falwell.jpg

Blaarrrg ahm ded.

n2ize

06-05-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 05 2007,09:10)]Life is life... Especially innocent unborn life... I don't see what is so hard to figure out about that... Some on "the left" argue it is ok to kill unborn #babies becuase of the "mother's right to choose" but it is not ok to condem serial killers because it is cruel... No one argues the Father's rights... Women cannot yet impregnate themselves, but they have the right to either terminate a childs life or force the father to pay for the support of the child for upwards of 18 years... Equal rights under the law indeed...
As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?
Quote[/b] ]
Life is life... Especially innocent unborn life... I don't see what is so hard to figure out about that... Some on "the left" argue it is ok to kill unborn #babies becuase of the "mother's right to choose" but it is not ok to condem serial killers because it is cruel... No one argues the Father's rights... Women cannot yet impregnate themselves, but they have the right to either terminate a childs life or force the father to pay for the support of the child for upwards of [18 years..

Fathers don't carry children. Women do. We are talking about an unborn fetus versus a living breathing child.

Quote[/b] ]
As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?

Germany undertook a substantial and agressive capaigan against our allies.

K6UEY

06-05-2007, 05:35 PM

KCØVVU,
Well I thank GOD he has enough sense to NOT let the people run the war.

The closest many have ever come to Military service is to figure out how to beat the draft. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

A very good example ,we are fighting a war on 2 fronts,we need to face the common enemy with a united front,but just look at the Bushbashing and how the PEOPLE screwed up Congress.

35 years of Democratic rule in Congress has softened the country to the texture of mashed potatoes.

We can't even protect our own borders much less defend the country !!

AQ is in Iraq to fight US. Now the people want to pull out,which will signal Iran the coast is clear to take over Iraq to build their monopoly of oil, (you think prices are high now,just wait ) then AQ will move to this country to fight us. That is a real brainstorm strategy.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

K6BBC

06-05-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,10:35)]KCØVVU,
Well I thank GOD he has enough sense to NOT let the people run the war.

The closest many have ever come to Military service is to figure out how to beat the draft. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

A very good example ,we are fighting a war on 2 fronts,we need to face the common enemy with a united front,but just look at the Bushbashing and how the PEOPLE screwed up Congress.

35 years of Democratic rule in Congress has softened the country to the texture of mashed potatoes.

We can't even protect our own borders much less defend the country !!

AQ is in Iraq to fight US. Now the people want to pull out,which will signal Iran the coast is clear to take over Iraq to build their monopoly of oil, (you think prices are high now,just wait ) then AQ will move to this country to fight us. That is a real brainstorm strategy.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
With all due respect, may I correct you? The reason our borders are not protected is we (the government) do not have the will to do so. If I were king, I would seal southern border with Mexico. I think I have made that clear enough.

Secondly, I do not believe this is a Bush bashing issue. This was has been handle with extreme incompetence. No mater the reasons, right or wrong, agree or disagree, we should have gone in there with overwhelming force. When it was clear things were not going as planned FOUR YEARS AGO, we should have corrected.

As a nation, we have a serious disconnect – and I lay this at Bush’s feet. If we were to fight a war on terror, we should have gone into a national war footing. War means sacrifice. This is not happening. The fat lazy kids in my neighborhood don’t give this war a second thought. Why should they, they will never be asked to fight.

There will be no serious discussion in this country about this struggle until was are asked to sacrifice and the draft is reinstated.

bbc

06-05-2007, 06:14 PM

K3XR

06-05-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. #A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). #There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. #In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. #The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. #Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. #Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? #This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
In order to give an honest answer to the question, you must conclude that it contains factual information.

K6BBC

06-05-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ June 05 2007,11:20)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
In order to give an honest answer to the question, you must conclude that it contains factual information.
Okay, would you mind telling me what is not factual or are you just breaking wind.

bbc

K6BBC

06-05-2007, 09:09 PM

w2amr

06-05-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:31)]Isn't that like asking if there are any intelligent Democrats ??
Your first answer may be correct,but then again more thought on the subject the possibility still remains that your first answer just maybe premature !!

It is some what like all the bushbashing,the man is a well educated man yet he is talked of as though he is some pot bellied Yahoo sitting in front of a TV set.
Now I ask you which one became the President of the United States,the Harvard / Yale graduate ,or the Yahoo in front of the TV set ??

Only in America can you display your ignorance in public and be joined by your neighbor !! # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
You forgot a 3rd choice, Yahoo Yale graduate .

w2amr

06-05-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,09:46)]Fair enough, just as GWB knows oil and how they in the field think, he worked in that Field !!Most likely he knows far more than the pot bellied Democratic Socialist in front of the TV set or on the Internet!!
Work in that field. Couldn't find oil in Texas. LMAO. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

al2i

06-06-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,13:09)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:27)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ June 05 2007,11:20)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
In order to give an honest answer to the question, you must conclude that it contains factual information.
Okay, would you mind telling me what is not factual or are you just breaking wind.

bbc
Yeah, just as I thought – crickets.
Ahem....

While we wait. (http://www.davemcgraw.com/Sounds/crickets.mp3)

KE4FES

06-06-2007, 06:39 AM

ka5s

06-06-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:59)]Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families?
This is easily explained (and I suspect you know it); the "pro-life" movement doesn't demonstrate against executions either, many of its constituency favoring them. "Pro-Life" is merely a label adopted to avoid the negative connotations of being labeled "Anti Abortion Rights".

Cortland
KA5S

n2ize

06-06-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,10:48)]Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,10:35)]KCØVVU,
Well I thank GOD he has enough sense to NOT let the people run the war.

The closest many have ever come to Military service is to figure out how to beat the draft. # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

A very good example ,we are fighting a war on 2 fronts,we need to face the common enemy with a united front,but just look at the Bushbashing and how the PEOPLE screwed up Congress.

35 years of Democratic rule in Congress has softened the country to the texture of mashed potatoes.

We can't even protect our own borders much less defend the country !!

AQ is in Iraq to fight US. Now the people want to pull out,which will signal Iran the coast is clear to take over Iraq to build their monopoly of oil, (you think prices are high now,just wait ) then AQ will move to this country to fight us. That is a real brainstorm strategy.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
With all due respect, may I correct you? #The reason our borders are not protected is we (the government) do not have the will to do so. #If I were king, I would seal southern border with Mexico. #I think I have made that clear enough.

Secondly, I do not believe this is a Bush bashing issue. #This was has been handle with extreme incompetence. #No mater the reasons, right or wrong, agree or disagree, we should have gone in there with overwhelming force. #When it was clear things were not going as planned FOUR YEARS AGO, we should have corrected. #

As a nation, we have a serious disconnect &#8211; and I lay this at Bush&#8217;s feet. #If we were to fight a war on terror, we should have gone into a national war footing. #War means sacrifice. #This is not happening. #The fat lazy kids in my neighborhood don&#8217;t give this war a second thought. #Why should they, they will never be asked to fight. #

There will be no serious discussion in this country about this struggle until was are asked to sacrifice and the draft is reinstated.

bbc
The only way you could "seal" the border is by destroying the trade. Otherwise it's impossible.

KP3FT

06-07-2007, 01:46 AM

>Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families?

I'm glad you used the word "seem", because I am tired of being labeled in stereotypes. I think you'd be surprised at how many Pro-Life people do have feelings about the dead and dying people in Iraq. In fact, I wish the media would report more numbers for us. I see a lot of reports of American soldiers dying, and believe me I hate it. These people enlisted and are now dying for a bad judgement call. However, there are also many Iraqi's dying as well. More coverage would demostrate the ugly senseless brutality of war, especially when it is in a war that should never have started.
In defense of the Pro-Life people, see below. It demonstrates why we are vehemently opposed to it, and why it goes beyond partisan politics and religion. Babies not only dying, but getting killed in the most brutal, painful methods imaginable, is an issue we all need to be aware of. Imagine, if there were a group of psychopaths who were systematically entering pre-schools and butchering children at random, how do you think the country would react? There is no difference.

>"Pro-Life" is merely a label adopted to avoid the negative connotations of being labeled "Anti Abortion Rights".

OK, so what is an "abortion"? What does it mean to you? How is an abortion performed and what is involved? If you were going to "abort" an unborn baby, how would you personally do it? Something is necessary to kill it, what would you use? To help you, imagine killing a rodent or an insect. You have a few choices; poison, asphyxiation, dismemberment, caustic solution...
An abortion is the ending of a life. They were living, now they are dead. Do nothing and they live; take action against them, and they die. It's really, really simple. Another term I love is "anti-choice", which conveniently erases that ugly word "life", and shifts the guilt on those bad, bad people who would dare to tell a woman what to do with "her own body". "Pro-abortion" or "pro-choice" is simply "anti-life". Look at the following if you have the backbone:

http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/freedom.jpg
http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/more5.jpg

Jeff KP3FT

w5lda

06-07-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ June 05 2007,04:31)]Only in America can you display your ignorance in public and be joined by your neighbor !! # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Especially if your neighbor is a republican too

K6UEY

06-07-2007, 03:09 AM

I don't know where it is coming from,the young and immature or from the Dyed in the Wool Democratic Socialists,but I keep seeing the phrase"a war that should never been started".

I have yet to see a solution supplied with the criticism.
Should we have waited and give Sadamn ample time to develop a nuclear Device or more Bio- Agents .

Maybe we could have stood by and watched while he sold them to the terrorist's.What do you think they would do with them??

What is the rule of thumb on how many cities have to be nuked before we get upset about it ??

Do we register a complaint with the United Nations and asked them to look into it?

Of course if they blame Sadamn for wrong doing he might cut off the under the table oil payments the UN was getting.

Sadamn did not believe as the terrorists do, but that did not stop him from doing business with them,like the training camp to teach them to hijack airplanes out in the Iraqi desert.

It is always amazing what conspiracies you can come up with when you have NONE of the facts at your disposal!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

k4kyv

06-07-2007, 03:19 AM

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 05 2007,16:10)]As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?
Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. The US declared war on Japan. Germany then declared war on the US. The US did not per-emptively invade Germany.

Before the attack, Roosevelt wanted to get the US involved in the war in Europe to come to the aid of Britain and France, but the sentiment in this country was to not to meddle in the European troubles.

A number of conspiracy theorists maintain that Roosevelt "wanted" the Pearl Harbor attack to happen, in order to get the US to enter the war, and that warning signs of the imminent Japanese attack were ignored.

kc0ukk

06-07-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:27)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ June 05 2007,11:20)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. #A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). #There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. #In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. #The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. #Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. #Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? #This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
In order to give an honest answer to the question, you must conclude that it contains factual information.
Okay, would you mind telling me what is not factual or are you just breaking wind.

bbc
I'll try.

The only issue with abortion (and it's only a debate) is when life begins. Both sides disagree. One side says that it begins at conception; the other says that it begins at viability. There are others who fall somewhere in between.

For those who believe life begins at conception, abortion is murder. You refer to such people as having a 'myopic fixation'. This is simply an aspersion, not a fact. We have not yet determined who, if anyone, has a 'myopic fixation' in this regard.

Those who believe that life begins at any time after conception, have no scientific or moral basis for their beliefs. They may say such things as life requires laughter, or a heart beat, or thinking (whatever they may define that to be).

Conception is the first cold, hard, scientifically verifiable fact of any human's life. Anything else is an arbitrarily determined construct; a mere rationalization.

It is my opinion that a 'myopic fixation' would be more aptly used to describe those who substitute rationalizations for facts.

As to the Iraqi war, there are those among us who have seen this war coming for decades. We assert no arbitrary requirement for a state sponsored enemy. We recognize that our enemies are not bound by our own sensibilities.

Further, we do not see Iraq as the 'war'; rather we see it as only the opening gambit in a very prolonged war that has been with us for over 1500 years. Our enemy has told us that the world is divided into two houses, the house of peace and the house of war. To exist in the house of peace requires that we convert to an alien religion or that we submit to its mastery over our lives.

There are those, such as yourself and President Bush, who have chosen to emphasize a few of the reasons for choosing this particular battle. To me, Saddam's failure to honor his treaty was reason enough. His irrational behavior rendered the risk he posed to the world too high to tolerate.

Our enemy is much larger than Saddam/Iraq. They are but one of many actors in this war. The better reason for choosing Iraq is its strategic location. We have embedded ouselves within the midst of our enemy's camp. We have not only surrounded Iran, we have deposed Saddam, separated Iran from both Syria and Afghanistan as well as separating Syria and Saudi Arabia.

You claim that 'many thousands of Iraqis' have been killed. You didn't take notice of the fact that many thousands of Iraqis have been killed yearly for decades. You seem to imply that had we not invaded Iraq that these Iraqis would not have died. The evidence contradicts your position.

Finally, you state the opinion that this invasion was unnecessary and that you fail to understand why somebody who believes that abortion is murder would not find this to be murder as well.

I shall turn that question around. Why would somebody who would murder an innocent child for the sole purpose of individual convenience find this war to be immoral?

You see, it is all a matter of belief. You believe, if your post is at all honest, that murdering innocent children is acceptable. You do refuse to call it murder, preferring the word abortion for some undisclosed reason.

You see, we disagree upon the facts. You fail to see the disagreement, primarily because you confuse your opinion with the facts.

K6BBC

06-07-2007, 05:21 AM

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 06 2007,21:48)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:27)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ June 05 2007,11:20)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,08:59)]It seems President Bush has always had support of the Pro Life Christian movement. A currently running thread poses the question “is Bush all that bad” (more or less). There is defiantly a myopic fixation on the abortion issue when it comes to Bush. In general, this group also supports Bush’s war in Iraq. The war in Iraq was fought for a number of different reasons, all of which turned out to be false. Not to parse numbers, but lets all agree there have been many thousands of Iraqis killed in this war. Why does it seem that the Pro Life enthusiast have so little heart or feelings for these damaged and destroyed Iraqi families? This misery and suffering, brought on by our unnecessary invasion of a sovereign nation that never attacked us.

Can anybody explain the thinking behind this thinking?

bbc
In order to give an honest answer to the question, you must conclude that it contains factual information.
Okay, would you mind telling me what is not factual or are you just breaking wind.

bbc
I'll try.

The only issue with abortion (and it's only a debate) is when life begins. Both sides disagree. One side says that it begins at conception; the other says that it begins at viability. There are others who fall somewhere in between.

For those who believe life begins at conception, abortion is murder. You refer to such people as having a 'myopic fixation'. This is simply an aspersion, not a fact. We have not yet determined who, if anyone, has a 'myopic fixation' in this regard.

Those who believe that life begins at any time after conception, have no scientific or moral basis for their beliefs. They may say such things as life requires laughter, or a heart beat, or thinking (whatever they may define that to be).

Conception is the first cold, hard, scientifically verifiable fact of any human's life. Anything else is an arbitrarily determined construct; a mere rationalization.

It is my opinion that a 'myopic fixation' would be more aptly used to describe those who substitute rationalizations for facts.

As to the Iraqi war, there are those among us who have seen this war coming for decades. We assert no arbitrary requirement for a state sponsored enemy. We recognize that our enemies are not bound by our own sensibilities.

Further, we do not see Iraq as the 'war'; rather we see it as only the opening gambit in a very prolonged war that has been with us for over 1500 years. Our enemy has told us that the world is divided into two houses, the house of peace and the house of war. To exist in the house of peace requires that we convert to an alien religion or that we submit to its mastery over our lives.

There are those, such as yourself and President Bush, who have chosen to emphasize a few of the reasons for choosing this particular battle. To me, Saddam's failure to honor his treaty was reason enough. His irrational behavior rendered the risk he posed to the world too high to tolerate.

Our enemy is much larger than Saddam/Iraq. They are but one of many actors in this war. The better reason for choosing Iraq is its strategic location. We have embedded ouselves within the midst of our enemy's camp. We have not only surrounded Iran, we have deposed Saddam, separated Iran from both Syria and Afghanistan as well as separating Syria and Saudi Arabia.

You claim that 'many thousands of Iraqis' have been killed. You didn't take notice of the fact that many thousands of Iraqis have been killed yearly for decades. You seem to imply that had we not invaded Iraq that these Iraqis would not have died. The evidence contradicts your position.

Finally, you state the opinion that this invasion was unnecessary and that you fail to understand why somebody who believes that abortion is murder would not find this to be murder as well.

I shall turn that question around. Why would somebody who would murder an innocent child for the sole purpose of individual convenience find this war to be immoral?

You see, it is all a matter of belief. You believe, if your post is at all honest, that murdering innocent children is acceptable. You do refuse to call it murder, preferring the word abortion for some undisclosed reason.

You see, we disagree upon the facts. You fail to see the disagreement, primarily because you confuse your opinion with the facts.
Not sure how to do this but I will try. CAPS are not yelling – just responding:

The only issue with abortion (and it's only a debate) is when life begins. Both sides disagree. One side says that it begins at conception; the other says that it begins at viability. There are others who fall somewhere in between.

For those who believe life begins at conception, abortion is murder. You refer to such people as having a 'myopic fixation'. This is simply an aspersion, not a fact. We have not yet determined who, if anyone, has a 'myopic fixation' in this regard.

Those who believe that life begins at any time after conception, have no scientific or moral basis for their beliefs. They may say such things as life requires laughter, or a heart beat, or thinking (whatever they may define that to be).

Conception is the first cold, hard, scientifically verifiable fact of any human's life. Anything else is an arbitrarily determined construct; a mere rationalization.

It is my opinion that a 'myopic fixation' would be more aptly used to describe those who substitute rationalizations for facts.

THERE IS NO DEBATE WITH ME ABOUT ABORTION. I BELIEVE LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION – IT’S JUST SCIENTIFIC FACT. MY COMMENT REFERED TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS A VERY STRONG COOROLATION BETWEEN THOSE WHO ARE “PRO-LIFE” AND THOSE SUPPORTING THE WAR. IT VERY MUCH SEEMS TO FALL IN LINE BY POLITICAL PARTY.

As to the Iraqi war, there are those among us who have seen this war coming for decades. We assert no arbitrary requirement for a state sponsored enemy. We recognize that our enemies are not bound by our own sensibilities.

Further, we do not see Iraq as the 'war'; rather we see it as only the opening gambit in a very prolonged war that has been with us for over 1500 years. Our enemy has told us that the world is divided into two houses, the house of peace and the house of war. To exist in the house of peace requires that we convert to an alien religion or that we submit to its mastery over our lives.

There are those, such as yourself and President Bush, who have chosen to emphasize a few of the reasons for choosing this particular battle. To me, Saddam's failure to honor his treaty was reason enough. His irrational behavior rendered the risk he posed to the world too high to tolerate.

THE I.A.E.A. INSPECTOR WERE IN IRAQ DAYS BEFORE THE WAR BEGAN. THEY TOLD US THERE WERE NO WEAPONS. THE FIRE OF WAS SO HOT THAT WE CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THEM. SADDAM TURNED OVER MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF EVIDENCE DAYS BEFORE THE WAR BEGAN SHOWING HE DID NOT HAVE THESE WEAPONS. WE CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE HIM. WE BOMBED THE HELL OUT OF HIM AND INVADED AND FOUND NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

Our enemy is much larger than Saddam/Iraq. They are but one of many actors in this war. The better reason for choosing Iraq is its strategic location.

FINE – THEN WHY DID WE SEND IN SUCH A LIGHT ARMY? AND WHAT GAVE US THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE IRAQ? CERTAINLY NOT 9/11, SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. EVENTUALLY, AFTER YEARS OF CONFLATING 9/11 AND IRAQ, BUSH CAME RIGHT OUT AND ADMITTED IT.

We have embedded ourselves within the midst of our enemy's camp. We have not only surrounded Iran, we have deposed Saddam, separated Iran from both Syria and Afghanistan as well as separating Syria and Saudi Arabia.

SADDAM WAS A BAD GUY, BUT HE RAN A SECULAR STYLE GOVERNMENT. HIS THINKING WAS FAR MORE WESTERN THAN HIS NEIGHBORS – THAT’S WHY THEY HATED HIM. KICKING HIM OUT WAS GOOD NEWS FOR IRAN. AND IT SEEMS TO ME WE ARE MORE SURROUNDED THAN THEM. AND BTW - SADDAM HAD CHRISTIANS IN VERY HIGH POSITIONS OF GOVERNMENT - HE REALLY WAS SECULAR.

You claim that 'many thousands of Iraqis' have been killed. You didn't take notice of the fact that many thousands of Iraqis have been killed yearly for decades. You seem to imply that had we not invaded Iraq that these Iraqis would not have died. The evidence contradicts your position.

BUT THEIR BLOOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPILLED IN MY NAME AS AN AMERICAN. WE HAD NO RIGHT TO DO THIS.

Finally, you state the opinion that this invasion was unnecessary and that you fail to understand why somebody who believes that abortion is murder would not find this to be murder as well.

I shall turn that question around. Why would somebody who would murder an innocent child for the sole purpose of individual convenience find this war to be immoral?

FIND SOMEONE WHO FEELS THAT WAY AND ASK THEM.

You see, it is all a matter of belief. You believe, if your post is at all honest, that murdering innocent children is acceptable. You do refuse to call it murder, preferring the word abortion for some undisclosed reason.

I PREFER TO STAY OUT OF HYPERBOLAE – IT TENDS TO BE CONSIDERED BAD WRITING

You see, we disagree upon the facts. You fail to see the disagreement, primarily because you confuse your opinion with the facts.

DON’T THINK SO. YOU HAVE NOT DISPROVED ANY OF MY FACTS, JUST SURROUNDED THEM WITH YOUR OPINIONS.

But

KE5FRF

06-07-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:12)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 05 2007,09:10)]Life is life... Especially innocent unborn life... I don't see what is so hard to figure out about that... Some on "the left" argue it is ok to kill unborn #babies becuase of the "mother's right to choose" but it is not ok to condem serial killers because it is cruel... No one argues the Father's rights... Women cannot yet impregnate themselves, but they have the right to either terminate a childs life or force the father to pay for the support of the child for upwards of 18 years... Equal rights under the law indeed...
As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?
Germany declared was on The United States. #Big difference.

bbc
So dead Germans were less valuable because their crazed dictator decided to declare war willy nilly? Declare war? What if I posted here on QRZ that I am declaring war with all 6 land calls...would that give you liberty to come over and shoot me? Words are words. Declaring war is just words. Hitler had no intentions of invading the US.

I'm not saying that we didn't have the right to engage Hitler in the war. We had every right to.

But you are posing a moral/ethical question about human life, implying that human life is universally to be valued with no exceptions, yet when the German example is brought up, it is so easily dismissed because "He declared war on us".

Well, we declared war on Iraq, and we attacked. Right? Wrong? I believe now that it was not the best plan. However, most of the nation as well as both parties in congress supported the invasion. You can believe what you want, but I believe that most of our leaders genuinely felt Hussein was a danger to American security. Wrong or right, the decision was made.

Yes, many Iraqis have lost their lives, as well as many Americans. I believe that some measurable good has come from the war. I believe that all people deserve liberty, and I hope that eventually liberty is what Iraqis have. Naive, maybe. But that is what I believe and hope.

There is ONE thing in this world that is more valuable than any individual human life. That is human LIBERTY. Liberty is seldom won without a fight, without a few sacrifices. I believe that most Iraqis desire the kind of liberty that Americans enjoy. Are a few Iraqi lives for the sake of lasting liberty worth it? I guess you'd have to ask the average Iraqi that question.

K6BBC

06-07-2007, 05:53 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ June 06 2007,22:28)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ June 05 2007,11:12)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ June 05 2007,09:10)]Life is life... Especially innocent unborn life... I don't see what is so hard to figure out about that... Some on "the left" argue it is ok to kill unborn babies becuase of the "mother's right to choose" but it is not ok to condem serial killers because it is cruel... No one argues the Father's rights... Women cannot yet impregnate themselves, but they have the right to either terminate a childs life or force the father to pay for the support of the child for upwards of 18 years... Equal rights under the law indeed...
As far invading/attacking a sovergn nation that had not attacked us...
Germany controlled by Hitler could qualify. How many innocent Germans and American soldiers died in that war?
Germany declared was on The United States. Big difference.

bbc
So dead Germans were less valuable because their crazed dictator decided to declare war willy nilly? Declare war? What if I posted here on QRZ that I am declaring war with all 6 land calls...would that give you liberty to come over and shoot me? Words are words. Declaring war is just words. Hitler had no intentions of invading the US.

I'm not saying that we didn't have the right to engage Hitler in the war. We had every right to.

But you are posing a moral/ethical question about human life, implying that human life is universally to be valued with no exceptions, yet when the German example is brought up, it is so easily dismissed because "He declared war on us".

Well, we declared war on Iraq, and we attacked. Right? Wrong? I believe now that it was not the best plan. However, most of the nation as well as both parties in congress supported the invasion. You can believe what you want, but I believe that most of our leaders genuinely felt Hussein was a danger to American security. Wrong or right, the decision was made.

Yes, many Iraqis have lost their lives, as well as many Americans. I believe that some measurable good has come from the war. I believe that all people deserve liberty, and I hope that eventually liberty is what Iraqis have. Naive, maybe. But that is what I believe and hope.

There is ONE thing in this world that is more valuable than any individual human life. That is human LIBERTY. Liberty is seldom won without a fight, without a few sacrifices. I believe that most Iraqis desire the kind of liberty that Americans enjoy. Are a few Iraqi lives for the sake of lasting liberty worth it? I guess you'd have to ask the average Iraqi that question.
Technically we never declared war on Iraq – but I understand the confusion.

If we go around the world spreading liberty by a gun, we are doomed as a nation. As shown in Iraq, it does not always turned out as hoped. And frankly, it is immensely arrogant to believe the rest of the world should live like us. BTW – that’s not me talking, that was what Bush campaigned on in 2000 – a humble foreign policy.

Let’s start taking care of ourselves for once.

bbc

KC2ESD

06-07-2007, 06:28 PM

Every one has a right to live, Iraqi or American, unless you do something bad like rape, kidnapping, or murder then you deserve to Die.

I hope that clears that up.