Signs of the coming Balkanizarion of the USA

[KI4PJW]

This was found on AT&T's (BellSouth) Home/News Page. #This is sad, very sad. #The fracturing of our Union seems to be coming closer.
The political/Social turmoil will be exactly the impetus needed to bring on "Marshal Law" and "Peace Keepers". #Constitutional Reform must happen NOW! #It is time for We The People to forget "Party Politics" and agitate for a devolvement back to Constitutional Rule or we will find ourselves and our Children/Grandchildren living in a system of govenance that only regards the RIGHT/MIGHT of the Corporate State and grants privilege to the SUBJECTS.
There will be many who say "this is not an issue worthy of attention", or "it will go away". This will not go away, it has been building for more than a 4 decades and the closer we come to being merged with Canada and Mexico in a "North American Community" or as some say "North American Union", more States will follow suit. #This is the way the Pro-Globalist, One Worlders have it planned. #Create the problem and then offer the solution, which always equals the destruction of Sovereignty. #

As my Instructor at the Police Academy said when dogging us out,

"Time ain't long!"



http://home.bellsouth.net/s....=&ch=ne (http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?fromspage=ch/c.htm&categoryid=&only=y&pnum=3&bfromind=7775&eeid=5239436&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=1&ck=&ch=ne)

[n2ize]

There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.

[KI4PJW]

Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
But, unfortunately, by the time they finally figure it out it'll be too late.

They'll say, "But our intentions were good!" as they are marched off to whatever government-mandated fate awaits them.

It's an old story.

Hegel was right. #History does, indeed, teach us that we learn nothing from history.

[G0GQK]

What exactly do you mean by Balkanisation ? In America you have federal governments which have been state administrators for many years. Is this not Balkanisation ?

G0GQK

[n7rjd]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ June 05 2007,07:36)]What exactly do you mean by Balkanisation ? In America you have federal governments which have been state administrators for many years. Is this not Balkanisation ?

G0GQK
Perhaps but we like to take our time in admitting such things. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC2ESD]

I just wonder if the South will rise again. If so can I defect to the Confederatcy?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ June 05 2007,19:45)]I just wonder if the South will rise again. If so can I defect to the Confederatcy?
You already have. You can probably catch the next Amtrack top Alabama.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.

[KI4PJW]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,01:54)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.
Friend,

To enlighten you. There is only room for 1 boss in any given system, be it business, which this union ain't, or government.
The Boss in this Country (We the People) have not given those tratiorous idiots that have been in the White House any Authority to do any such thing. There is no Lawful Authority for anyone to change our system to a Friggin Business Model, this is not the Corporation of Subjigate States, it is the "united States of America", sovereign states inhabited by people with GOD given inalienable rights,and if folks don't grasp this notion, and damn quick, they will soon find themselves with privileges that will be revoked when expedient to the Unelected folks who will be ruling under the aegis of "Trade Commissions" or "Tribunals" or what ever else they will call the Pit of Vipers that control the "Community"

If, Neighbors live in Neighborhoods, What lives in COMMUNities?

WILLNOTBOW!!!

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:31)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,01:54)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.
Friend,

To enlighten you. There is only room for 1 boss in any given system, be it business, which this union ain't, or government.
The Boss in this Country (We the People) have not given those tratiorous idiots that have been in the White House any Authority to do any such thing. #There is no Lawful Authority for anyone to change our system to a Friggin Business Model, this is not the Corporation of Subjigate States, it is the "united States of America", sovereign states inhabited by people with GOD given inalienable rights,and if folks don't grasp this notion, and damn quick, they will soon find themselves with privileges that will be revoked when expedient to the Unelected folks who will be ruling under the aegis of "Trade Commissions" or "Tribunals" or what ever else they will call the Pit of Vipers that control the "Community"

If, Neighbors live in Neighborhoods, What lives in COMMUNities?

WILLNOTBOW!!!
Don't worry, whatever you're imagining is going to happen it's not going to happen. As far as the country being changed to a "business model" it has already happened, a long time ago. Economies move the world and economies have become very globalized. You either play the global economic game or you sink and die as a nation.. That's just how it is.

Meanwhile, the things you are envisioning are not happening.

[KI4PJW]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,02:45)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:31)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,01:54)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.
Friend,

To enlighten you. There is only room for 1 boss in any given system, be it business, which this union ain't, or government.
The Boss in this Country (We the People) have not given those tratiorous idiots that have been in the White House any Authority to do any such thing. #There is no Lawful Authority for anyone to change our system to a Friggin Business Model, this is not the Corporation of Subjigate States, it is the "united States of America", sovereign states inhabited by people with GOD given inalienable rights,and if folks don't grasp this notion, and damn quick, they will soon find themselves with privileges that will be revoked when expedient to the Unelected folks who will be ruling under the aegis of "Trade Commissions" or "Tribunals" or what ever else they will call the Pit of Vipers that control the "Community"

If, Neighbors live in Neighborhoods, What lives in COMMUNities?

WILLNOTBOW!!!
Don't worry, whatever you're imagining is going to happen it's not going to happen. As far as the country being changed to a "business model" it has already happened, a long time ago. Economies move the world and economies have become very globalized. You either play the global economic game or you sink and die as a nation.. That's just how it is.

Meanwhile, the things you are envisioning are not happening.
You sir need to remove your head from your 4th point of contact!

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ June 05 2007,19:45)]I just wonder if the South will rise again. If so can I defect to the Confederatcy?
We're just waiting for the right time to end the Yankee Occupation of The South. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If ya wanna defect, just pack your stuff and "tool" on down here. We'll even offer ya tall cold fruit jar of "the house wine of the South:" Ice Tea. EVERYTHING tastes better in a fruit jar. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:50)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,02:45)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:31)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,01:54)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.
Friend,

To enlighten you. There is only room for 1 boss in any given system, be it business, which this union ain't, or government.
The Boss in this Country (We the People) have not given those tratiorous idiots that have been in the White House any Authority to do any such thing. #There is no Lawful Authority for anyone to change our system to a Friggin Business Model, this is not the Corporation of Subjigate States, it is the "united States of America", sovereign states inhabited by people with GOD given inalienable rights,and if folks don't grasp this notion, and damn quick, they will soon find themselves with privileges that will be revoked when expedient to the Unelected folks who will be ruling under the aegis of "Trade Commissions" or "Tribunals" or what ever else they will call the Pit of Vipers that control the "Community"

If, Neighbors live in Neighborhoods, What lives in COMMUNities?

WILLNOTBOW!!!
Don't worry, whatever you're imagining is going to happen it's not going to happen. As far as the country being changed to a "business model" it has already happened, a long time ago. Economies move the world and economies have become very globalized. You either play the global economic game or you sink and die as a nation.. That's just how it is.

Meanwhile, the things you are envisioning are not happening.
You sir need to remove your head from your 4th point of contact!
I like the global economy. I am enjoying globalization. Puts good money in my pocket... I think the idea of an NAU might be a good step in the right direction. I'd rather the country move in the direction of the world economy rather than isolate from it. I think globalization is a pretty good deal. Works for me.

[KI4PJW]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,02:57)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:50)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,02:45)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 05 2007,20:31)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,01:54)]Quote[/b] (KI4PJW @ June 04 2007,20:51)]Not under a system of Constitutional Governance such as ours. #When we get tangled up in this sort of scheme we will loose our pecuilar system to the whims of the Rulers, "We won't get to elect". #Exactly why our Founders set it up the way they did.
Your attitude will change in the coming few years, that is a promise. Also, a lay down and SUBMIT attitude like that is what allowed the Nazi Party to accomplish what it did.
These are strawmen arguments. The country will run the way it always has. The idea of a NAU is more of an economic/business strategy. The mechanisms of this are already in place and have been for some time. Formalizations are not going to change anything.
Friend,

To enlighten you. There is only room for 1 boss in any given system, be it business, which this union ain't, or government.
The Boss in this Country (We the People) have not given those tratiorous idiots that have been in the White House any Authority to do any such thing. #There is no Lawful Authority for anyone to change our system to a Friggin Business Model, this is not the Corporation of Subjigate States, it is the "united States of America", sovereign states inhabited by people with GOD given inalienable rights,and if folks don't grasp this notion, and damn quick, they will soon find themselves with privileges that will be revoked when expedient to the Unelected folks who will be ruling under the aegis of "Trade Commissions" or "Tribunals" or what ever else they will call the Pit of Vipers that control the "Community"

If, Neighbors live in Neighborhoods, What lives in COMMUNities?

WILLNOTBOW!!!
Don't worry, whatever you're imagining is going to happen it's not going to happen. As far as the country being changed to a "business model" it has already happened, a long time ago. Economies move the world and economies have become very globalized. You either play the global economic game or you sink and die as a nation.. That's just how it is.

Meanwhile, the things you are envisioning are not happening.
You sir need to remove your head from your 4th point of contact!
I like the global economy. I am enjoying globalization. Puts good money in my pocket... I think the idea of an NAU might be a good step in the right direction. #I'd rather the country move in the direction of the world economy rather than isolate from it. #I think globalization is a pretty good deal. Works for me.
Only until you find out you ain't really one of the "In Crowd".

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.

[KI4PJW]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,03:04)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. #Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. #Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? #There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? #Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.
Well Written, My good Man!

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,21:04)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. #Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. #Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? #There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? #Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.
Thats' why we are fortunate to have the gift of discretionary thought and the ability to strike a balance. It's worked for humans for centuries, it's ludicrous to imagine it is going to stop working tomorrow.

[wd0ct]

Heck it's only Vermont. We can kick their ass, can't we?


We can turn it into the permanent FEMA trailer park for disaster refugees.

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,21:55)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,21:04)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. #Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. #Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? #There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? #Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.
Thats' why we are fortunate to have the gift of discretionary thought and the ability to strike a balance. It's worked for humans for centuries, it's ludicrous to imagine it is going to stop working tomorrow.
That brings us back to my original thought. Why do socialists believe they have the right to eliminate constitutional republics? Is it simply because they believe socialism to be rational and constitutional republics to be irrational?

From my perspective, there is room enough in this world for both forms of government. Let's keep both forms and allow the individual to live under whichever form he may find rational?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 06 2007,04:36)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,21:55)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,21:04)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. #Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. #Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? #There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? #Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.
Thats' why we are fortunate to have the gift of discretionary thought and the ability to strike a balance. It's worked for humans for centuries, it's ludicrous to imagine it is going to stop working tomorrow.
That brings us back to my original thought. #Why do socialists believe they have the right to eliminate constitutional republics? #Is it simply because they believe socialism to be rational and constitutional republics to be irrational?

From my perspective, there is room enough in this world for both forms of government. #Let's keep both forms and allow the individual to live under whichever form he may find rational?
Who's "eliminating" constitutional republics ?? What are you talking about ? Where are you getting this from ? Where does it say that the goal of a NAU is to build a socialist state ?

[k5xit]

The entire One World crowd must be eagerly anticipating this. It is just too bad that so many are willing to give up so much for the promises of the socialist state. When I was a boy, we had a neighbor whose place joined ours. There were quite a few wild turkeys around and he fed the turkeys. The turkeys liked this and showed up every day for the free grain. Others were aware of this arrangement and one day while the turkeys were enjoying their "free" feed someone killed several of them. Think about it you turkeys.

[w3scm]

IZE, I think a least provocative way to put the point is that implementing the best of intentions can have unintended (and disastrous) outcomes. I certainly am not comfortable moving to toward the "one world" or globalized future.

I do believe in individual liberty and in self-reliance and while certainly things in this country are moving away from there, they are even moving farther and faster everywhere else. Letting camel's nose under the tent is to be avoided.

As for human reason, striking balances, and whatever having carried us so successfully for centuries, I think that from the standpoint of 2007 most of us are too old to have a fresh memory of the horrors of the 30's and 40's worldwide. if it wasn't for America, nothing would have stopped the Russians, Japanese and Germans except possibly each other. I don't know how it would have come out, but it wouldn't have been good and the numbers who died during WWII would have been a lot larger and the rule of despots would have lasted a lot longer and in more places. Who knows whether America would even have survived.

We hipster types may well have contributed to an early end to the Vietnam war but I am of the mind that while doing that supposedly noble thing, we helped do a lot of permanent damage to the society. This is still the best place on earth to be an ordinary citizen and I am loath to see changes whose outcome can't be predicted (or which outcome is ignored, or just assumed to be good).

It is beyond me why we should "need" open borders or "free trade" (whatever you define that as...). What is the societal good about exporting our jobs and supporting serf economies in other countries to undercut American workers, all so we can have TV's that cost 100 bucks instead of 150?

Look before you leap and if you can't see the bottom, don't. And remember what the road to Hell is paved with...

[ac3p]

Quote[/b] ]. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.


It only takes one major natural disaster to turn back the clock.

[W3MIV]

Hookah dreams of academic ideologues in search of the novus ordo. Probably couldn't find their own butts with both hands.

Remember the ancient adage: Those who can, do; those who cannot, teach.

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ June 06 2007,10:34)]Hookah dreams of academic ideologues in search of the novus ordo. Probably couldn't find their own butts with both hands.
Both hands, a search warrant, and the GPS coordinates.

[kc0ukk]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 06 2007,04:46)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 06 2007,04:36)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,21:55)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,21:04)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Socialism is the antithesis of individual liberty. #Liberty must be surrendered if socialism is to exist at all.

Individuals wish to succeed or fail by their own hand; that is the raison d'tre of their lives. #Indeed, it is only when there are too few individuals that countries collapse.

When all are fed, clothed, protected and paid by the same hand, there is nothing with which to feed, clothe, protect or pay because all will be fed, clothed, protected and paid.

Quite a conundrum, isn't it? #There is that dirty little secret, though, isn't there? #Some people are foolish enough to continue hard, productive labor even when they don't have to in order to survive and despite the fact that the fruits of their labor is taken from them.

Alas, the takers, not realizing that a critical mass of certain resources are required for all endeavors to succeed, overreach themselves, and then, even the foolishly good fail as a result.
Thats' why we are fortunate to have the gift of discretionary thought and the ability to strike a balance. It's worked for humans for centuries, it's ludicrous to imagine it is going to stop working tomorrow.
That brings us back to my original thought. #Why do socialists believe they have the right to eliminate constitutional republics? #Is it simply because they believe socialism to be rational and constitutional republics to be irrational?

From my perspective, there is room enough in this world for both forms of government. #Let's keep both forms and allow the individual to live under whichever form he may find rational?
Who's "eliminating" constitutional republics ?? What are you talking about ? Where are you getting this from ? Where does it say that the goal of a NAU is to build a socialist state ?
According to our constitution, treaties become the law of the land, just as if Congress enacted them and the President signed them (which, of course, is almost how treaties are enacted).

If we examine the history of the EU, we find that Brussels has had a significant impact on London, Paris and Madrid. Monetary policy, agricultural policy, emission standards, human rights, etc. There is no area of human affairs that are not affected by the EU policy makers.

No other nation in the world has subjugated the power of government to the will of its citizens as has the USA. Neither of our prospective partners concurs in this subjugation and there is no reason to believe that a union between these three countries will succeed unless we compromise in this regard.

[NL7W]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Your twisted, freakish logic scares the hell out of conservative Middle America and those who have actually served their Nation's military. #

You are leftist, socialist, hippie -- bent on destroying my sovereign Nation by dragging us down to the level of socialist France.

Again, why don't you move over there with your most probable live-in girlfriend.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (NL7W @ June 06 2007,16:00)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 05 2007,20:20)]Quote[/b] (kc0ukk @ June 05 2007,20:09)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ June 04 2007,20:38)]There are extremists in every camp. This is not different than "changing the code requirement will end ham radio", etc. The USA will no more loose it's identity as a nation any more than France or Italy has lost their identities under the European Union. Face it, globalization is here to stay. A North American union has more advantages than disadvantages.
The extremists in this case are those who would transform the US from a Constitutional Republic to a Socialist Democracy.

Why is it, given all the Socialist Democracies present in the world, that some are hell-bent on eliminating the only functioning Constitutional Republic?

It is my opinion that those desirous of a Socialist Democracy ought to allow those of us who prefer a Constitutional Republic to keep our Constitutional Republic.

The socialists are most welcome to share in our plenty, but if they find life here so repugnent, they are equally free to move elsewhere.

By what right do socialists deem it proper to deprive republicans of their way of life?
Socialism is an important part of virtually every free society. It's an integral part of our own country and if it weren't the country would collapse. It's implicitly intwined into the very fabric of your "constitutional republic".

What many don't understand is the integrity of the world economic structure of which we are (like it or not) an integral part. Globalization is inevitable. It's too late to turn back the clock nor is there any reason why the clock should be turned back.

A NAU doesn't mean you're going to be singing the Mexican national anthem as the red army parades down the street as you march to your Bolshevik rally. Matter of fact an NAU will be pretty much transparent to the avaerage gung ho America much as a corporate merger is transparent to the consumer.
Your twisted, freakish logic scares the hell out of conservative Middle America and those who have actually served their Nation's military. #

You are leftist, socialist, hippie -- bent on destroying my sovereign Nation by dragging us down to the level of socialist France.

Again, why don't you move over there with your most probable live-in girlfriend.
Quote[/b] ]
You are leftist, socialist, hippie -- bent on destroying my sovereign Nation by dragging us down to the level of socialist France.


It's not the "leftists". It's not the "hippies". It's not those of us who can understand the concept of striking a balance between socialized elements of society and private corporatization. #Those are not the ones you need to worry about.Those are not the ones who are undermining this nation. #It's the ones who are lying to the American public and starting corrupt and phony wars around the world. It's the ones who are running the nation deeper and deeper into debt. It's the Ayn Rand-ian types who promote an unregulated free market with no rules or regulations concerning the way business operates. It's the ones who are supporting the continued outsourcing of American jobs. #It's the ones who support these destructive policies while at the same time failing to understand the importance of social services within society along with the importance of REGULATED enterprise (freewithin reason) and business opportunities. Fortunately throughout most of our history we have been able to strike a dynamic but reasonable balance between these. #it is what has pretty much kept our country alive and prospering for so long and the reason why many of us have the things we have today.

Quote[/b] ]
You are leftist, socialist, hippie -- bent on destroying my sovereign Nation by dragging us down to the level of socialist France.


That all depends on whether you consider a country like France to be a step down.
France has it's share of problems and has learned the hard lessons of excesses. France is a bit more socialistic than we are as they do have an excellent public health care program which we lack here. France is also a very facinating country with a rich history that includes deep honor and respect for the United States.
Matter of fact several months back when we were busy bickering about gay marriages the French were busy honoring the American soldiers who fought in the Normandy Invasion and in all of WW2. If you are a military man you might pay a visit to France. You may be surprised at the level of respect those socialists over there have for American fighting men.


Quote[/b] ]
You are leftist, socialist, hippie -- bent on destroying my sovereign Nation


No, you're quite wrong. I am by no means a "socialist". Leftist/hippie maybe but socialist...no. #I simply believe in what is practical in order to make society work.There are some elements of society that are best done collectively and others independently/privately. I believe in using the right tool for the right job. To you that is socialism. To me thats common sense and what makes us functional.


Quote[/b] ]
Again, why don't you move over there with your most probable live-in girlfriend.


"Live-in girlfriend" ?? #Oui... does it make any difference ?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w3scm @ June 06 2007,06:46)]IZE, I think a least provocative #way to put the point is that implementing the best of intentions can have unintended (and disastrous) outcomes. #I certainly am not comfortable moving to toward the "one world" or globalized future.

I do believe in individual liberty and in self-reliance and while certainly things in this country are moving away from there, they are even moving farther and faster everywhere else. #Letting camel's nose under the tent is to be avoided.

As for human reason, striking balances, #and whatever having carried us so successfully for centuries, I think that from the standpoint of 2007 most of us are too old to have a fresh memory of the horrors of the 30's and 40's worldwide. #if it wasn't for America, nothing would have stopped the Russians, Japanese and Germans except possibly each other. #I don't know how it would have come out, but it wouldn't have been good and the numbers who died during WWII would have been a lot larger and the rule of despots would have lasted a lot longer and in more places. #Who knows whether America would even have survived.

We hipster types may well have contributed to an early end to the Vietnam war but I am of the mind that while doing that supposedly noble thing, we helped do a lot of permanent damage to the society. #This is still the #best place on earth to be an ordinary citizen and I am loath to see changes whose outcome can't be predicted (or which outcome is ignored, or just assumed to be good). #

It is beyond me why we should "need" open borders or "free trade" (whatever you define that as...). #What is the societal good about exporting our jobs and supporting serf economies in other countries to undercut American workers, all so we can have TV's that cost 100 bucks instead of 150?

Look before you leap and if you can't see the bottom, don't. #And remember what the road to Hell is paved with...
Quote[/b] ]
As for human reason, striking balances, #and whatever having carried us so successfully for centuries, I think that from the standpoint of 2007 most of us are too old to have a fresh memory of the horrors of the 30's and 40's worldwide. #if it wasn't for America, nothing would have stopped the Russians, Japanese and Germans except possibly each other. #I don't know how it would have come out, but it wouldn't have been good and the numbers who died during WWII would have been a lot larger and the rule of despots would have lasted a lot longer and in more places. #Who knows whether America would even have survived.


I fully agree. The role we played back then is why so many throughout the world have deep respect for America. Sadly, todays leadership(both parties) seems to be eroding that respect.

Quote[/b] ]
We hipster types may well have contributed to an early end to the Vietnam war but I am of the mind that while doing that supposedly noble thing, we helped do a lot of permanent damage to the society. #This is still the #best place on earth to be an ordinary citizen and I am loath to see changes whose outcome can't be predicted (or which outcome is ignored, or just assumed to be good). #


No doubt we did make some mistakes. But I disagree that we did permanent damage or even much damage per se. Every generation has left it's share of good and bad. I see a lot of excesses, greed, materialism, etc. that is causing a lot of damage to the world. Greed, materialism were things many of us hipsters railed against and encouraged people to look beyond. I like money and materialism but not to the point where it bocomed my "God". For too many in this world is hhas become just that, "a God" which they cannot see beyond.

Quote[/b] ]
It is beyond me why we should "need" open borders or "free trade" (whatever you define that as...). #What is the societal good about exporting our jobs and supporting serf economies in other countries to undercut American workers, all so we can have TV's that cost 100 bucks instead of 150?


I think there is good and bad to a global economy. However, I think that more and more globalization is inevitable. This doesn;t mean that we should plunge into these things blindly and worry about consequences later. Everything must be well thought out and we should proceed with extreme caution. At the same time I was railing against the idea that globalization equates with the end of America as we know it. I think it is entirely possible to engage in global economics and yet remain a soverign nation..

Quote[/b] ]
Look before you leap and if you can't see the bottom, don't. #And remember what the road to Hell is paved with...


Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.