Interference from 2m group of Filippino Hams

Anyone in the SOCAL or close by area receiving interference from a group of Filippino speaking ham operators on 2m? #I believe they are in the Las Vegas or Henderson Nev. area #They have a 7 id in their call sign, the frequency is 146.64mhz. #The call may have changed. # JUST LOOKING for others that may be receiving interference on the same frequency in surrounding areas.

[ka5s]

Try AF6P. (http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=14689)


Cortland
KA5S

Ill pass the link on to our POC, thank you

anyone else affected??

[WA9SVD]

What sort of interference are they causing?

well not knowing any of the language, it sounds like they are rag chewing or just checking in with each other, and the occasional ker-chunk

[WA9SVD]

Is that on a private or closed repeater input, or what? Obviously, you can't easily tell who "kerchunks" if they don't ID.

sent you a pm, we tried getting into the freq from here, but to no avail, have yet to see any new repeater license info

[KG6YTZ]

I've heard Filippinos on various frequencies across the band, but not on that particular frequency. #146.64 locally is coordinated to the W7BF repeater in Diamond Bar [DM14, I believe], but it's a low-level machine, and I believe I can say - as someone who is well within that particular repeater's coverage area - that it is not the source of your problem. #Not-so-locally, the pair is shared by the WB6WLV repeater on Mt. Otay [Mexican border, audible and reachable from here under the right conditions], the WA6FGK repeater in Simi Valley, and the N6UE repeater in Santa Maria. #The only coordination I see on 146.64 in the SNRC (http://www.snrc.us) [Southern Nevada Repeater Council] list is for W6JCY, apparently in Henderson. #

Re: Cortland's AF6P suggestion... #The only coordination I see for FILAMARS on 2m in the current TASMA (http://www.tasma.org) list is for 147.21 on Mt. Otay.

Of course, these lists show only [i]coordinated repeaters, so if it's an uncoordinated repeater you're dealing with, it's not going to show up in either organization's lists. #On the other hand, that wouldn't necessarily mean that they are unaware of the problem, either.

I assume the interference is to the WA6YBN repeater?

[KA4DPO]

Would they be causing interference if they spoke english?

Just asking...

[K8MHZ]

What is the interference?

People are allowed to speak Spanish on US repeaters. They are required to ID in English, however.

Sometimes tropo will cause 2 meter repeaters to interfere with each other. We have to deal with it quite a bit in the summer. That is why you see most MI repeaters with a tone. The tone keeps the repeaters separate, so to speak, it's not there to keep people from using them. There have been days where I could hit three different 2 meter repeaters on the same freq. from here by chaning the PL tones. Cool. To me, anyway.

[wa9cwx]

Let me see if I have this right....

A bunch of people, using Ham calls, are talking to eachother on a Ham repeater......

Without trying to be sarcastic, I AM wondering just what part of this is interference ?

[VA3SAX]

as far as I know if these gents are in the states then they'd need to ID in english otherwise if they were out of the country they can ID in the required language and nothing wrong with them speaking spanish on there...it's perfectly acceptable. the only rule as to that sort of thing is that they are not permitted to use a code meant to obscure their message...spanish isn't such a code anyone who knows spanish will understand them so I see no problem here...'cept maybe discrimination against these guys because of their nationality

[NN3W]

There is also a Filippino repeater on 147.420 - 15 KHz away from the 147.435 animal farm. There has been a long-going, on again, off again battle between the two groups over the "bleed" from the Filippino repeater onto 435...

[kb2vxa]

Here in NJ we have Spanish, Portuguese and Polish speaking repeaters, some linked. So, what's the problem aside from maybe tropo? Sorry if I don't understand and nobody explained.

[w8znx]

yes would it be qrm
if they were speaking english

they only need to id in english

Filippino people speak Tagalog

not Spanish
yes many do know Spanish

but it would be like a 2nd language

sure the Spanish ruled the place
but that was over 100 years ago

2nd language for many Filippinos
is English not Spanish

Mac dit dit

Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ June 01 2007,03:08)]I've heard Filippinos on various frequencies across the band, but not on that particular frequency. #146.64 locally is coordinated to the W7BF repeater in Diamond Bar [DM14, I believe], but it's a low-level machine, and I believe I can say - as someone who is well within that particular repeater's coverage area - that it is not the source of your problem. #Not-so-locally, the pair is shared by the WB6WLV repeater on Mt. Otay [Mexican border, audible and reachable from here under the right conditions], the WA6FGK repeater in Simi Valley, and the N6UE repeater in Santa Maria. #The only coordination I see on 146.64 in the SNRC (http://www.snrc.us) [Southern Nevada Repeater Council] list is for W6JCY, apparently in Henderson. #

Re: Cortland's AF6P suggestion... #The only coordination I see for FILAMARS on 2m in the current TASMA (http://www.tasma.org) list is for 147.21 on Mt. Otay.

Of course, these lists show only [i]coordinated repeaters, so if it's an uncoordinated repeater you're dealing with, it's not going to show up in either organization's lists. #On the other hand, that wouldn't necessarily mean that they are unaware of the problem, either.

I assume the interference is to the WA6YBN repeater?
Yes WA6YBN, I suspect that area (So. Nev) due to the fact that Mnt Potosi is almost direct line of site, as Mnt Potosi can be accessed from certain paths in the valley here on different frequency's

I believe that they are unaware. There are things that can be done locally in my opinion
Thank You for your reply
Mark

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ June 01 2007,05:26)]Would they be causing interference if they spoke english?

Just asking...
yes and in any language, again I believe they are unaware,
thank you for your reply

Mark

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ June 01 2007,06:45)]What is the interference?

People are allowed to speak Spanish on US repeaters. #They are required to ID in English, however. #

Sometimes tropo will cause 2 meter repeaters to interfere with each other. #We have to deal with it quite a bit in the summer. #That is why you see most MI repeaters with a tone. #The tone keeps the repeaters separate, so to speak, it's not there to keep people from using them. #There have been days where I could hit three different 2 meter repeaters on the same freq. from here by chaning the PL tones. #Cool. #To me, anyway.
Do not believe to be tropo, Believe to be direct line of sight, as certain repeaters from that area can be accessed from certain paths here locally.

I agree with tones, that imo would be a better option but there should be coordination and attempts to keep interference to a minimum.

Thank you for your reply
Mark

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ June 01 2007,06:56)]Let me see if I have this right....

A bunch of people, using Ham calls, are talking to eachother on #a Ham repeater......

Without trying to be sarcastic, I AM wondering just what part of this is interference ?
lets see, someone complains when someone topples someones qso on HF? Interference is interference, some can be remedied others cannot

Thank you for your reply

Quote[/b] (VA3SAX @ June 01 2007,07:07)]as far as I know if these gents are in the states then they'd need to ID in english otherwise if they were out of the country they can ID in the required language and nothing wrong with them speaking spanish on there...it's perfectly acceptable. the only rule as to that sort of thing is that they are not permitted to use a code meant to obscure their message...spanish isn't such a code anyone who knows spanish will understand them so I see no problem here...'cept maybe discrimination against these guys because of their nationality
no discrimination here, looking to remedy the interference to local net and qso's, if you can help say so, otherwise..... thank you for replying

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ June 01 2007,06:56)]Let me see if I have this right....

A bunch of people, using Ham calls, are talking to eachother on #a Ham repeater......

Without trying to be sarcastic, I AM wondering just what part of this is interference ?
i suggest you change freq

you are causing interference

to Filippino speaking ops

Mac

Quote[/b] (NN3W @ June 01 2007,07:48)]There is also a Filippino repeater on 147.420 - 15 KHz away from the 147.435 animal farm. #There has been a long-going, on again, off again battle between the two groups over the "bleed" from the Filippino repeater onto 435...
is this in your area? Any info links etc?
Thank You for your reply
Mark

Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ June 01 2007,08:49)]Here in NJ we have Spanish, Portuguese and Polish speaking repeaters, some linked. So, what's the problem aside from maybe tropo? Sorry if I don't understand and nobody explained.
Please go back and read the part thats says
"JUST LOOKING for.................."
the language is not the issue, the interference is, not believed to be tropo
Thank you for replying

Quote[/b] (w8znx @ June 01 2007,10:29)]yes would it be qrm
if they were speaking english

they only need to id in english

Filippino people speak Tagalog

not Spanish
yes many do know Spanish

but it would be like a 2nd language

sure the Spanish ruled the place
but that was over 100 years ago

2nd language for many Filippinos
is English not Spanish

Mac dit dit
language is not an issue, I am well aware of the Fillipino Heritage. Growing up in the military I was well exposed to the culture, I didnt post Tagalon for personal reasons, however that was the tongue being spoken as identifed by a member who spent many years associated with them.

We are just wanting to let them know they are causing interference to our nets and qso's , I have yet to hear anyone id their call in English from that offending repeater

thank you for your reply
Mark

For the Record
This is not an issue of discrimination, language, hair #or eye color, whether you drive a chevy or a Nash Rambler, hug trees, whether you use your left or right hand to wipe your six, #eat with a fork or use your fingers, what it is is an issue of interference,

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (ke6sma @ June 01 2007,13:07)]For the Record
This is not an issue of discrimination, language, hair #or eye color, whether you drive a chevy or a Nash Rambler, hug trees, whether you use your left or right hand to wipe your six, #eat with a fork or use your fingers, what it is is an issue of interference,
my goodness

use to drive a Rambler
and i do hug trees

they hold up my
80 meter full wave loop

love those trees
mac dit dit

I drove one in high school and I like trees also, I really liked the Rosie jab you gave me, very funny indeed,
Mark

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (ke6sma @ June 01 2007,13:07)]For the Record
This is not an issue of discrimination, language, hair or eye color, whether you drive a chevy or a Nash Rambler, hug trees, whether you use your left or right hand to wipe your six, eat with a fork or use your fingers, what it is is an issue of interference,
Why not try to break in using your own callsign and speaking English, and tell them about the problem?

Most American-based Filipinos speak English just fine.

BTW, I haven't seen a Nash Rambler in many years and I wipe with either hand (ambidextrous). It would be very cool to have a Nash Rambler on the road right now.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

we tried to do that, but from here, a yagi and full legal power we did not break into their side

Im sure once they are aware, they will assist, things are looking better from what I heard locally, so with that I will end this thread, thanks to all of you that responded

That old nash was a runner, sure do miss the old gal,

[wa9cwx]

Again, without trying to be sarcastic.......
Isn't this an issue for the COORDINATOR in your area?
Maybe there is no cooridination of repeaters across state lines there, I simply do not know, and it certainly was NOT part of the original post.

The original post simply described people talking on a repeater, as being the source of interference.

You may or may not be familiar with HF operation, but the analogy to interference on HF was inapropriate.
There IS no coordination, of assigned stations, on the HF Ham bands.

Frank

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (ke6sma @ June 01 2007,13:55)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ June 01 2007,05:26)]Would they be causing interference if they spoke english?

Just asking...
yes and in any language, again I believe they are unaware,
thank you for your reply

Mark
OK Mark but i'm still wondering what the real situation is. Are they on an uncoordinated repeater pair? If they are coordinated and the interference is caused by propagation then both groups should modify their antennas to mitigate the problem.

Thank you Mac, after 28 years in the military and working with hundreds of Phillipinos over the years I should have known that they speak Tagalog.

Actually I do know that and have for 30 years, someone else said they speak spanish not me.

[WA9SVD]

I saw an aqua and white Nash Metropolitan on the road just the other day... (or were they ALL aqua and white? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

Are the other operators operating simplex or through a repeater?
If they are operating through a repeater, then TASMA should be able to help work out an amicable solution acceptable to all. TASMA would probably have a bit more persuasive power if there's interference caused by a "distant' repeater.
While not the easiest solution, if they ARE using a new repeater, both machines may have to use CTCSS tones.
(Here in So. Cal, we have a similar problem between a repeater in the South Bay/Redondo Beach and a repeater in San Diego. CTCSS eliminates MOST interference, but some still occurs.)

[K0RGR]

You may want to see if what you're hearing is via EchoLink. There are a number of Filipino groups on EchoLink. There used to be a couple repeaters in the Las Vegas area on EchoLink regularly, too - I see two in Henderson currently logged in. There was a *MABUHAY* group at one time, but I don't see it currently active.

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ June 01 2007,16:18)]Quote[/b] (ke6sma @ June 01 2007,13:55)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ June 01 2007,05:26)]Would they be causing interference if they spoke english?

Just asking...
yes and in any language, again I believe they are unaware,
thank you for your reply

Mark
OK Mark but i'm still wondering what the real situation is. #Are they on an uncoordinated repeater pair? #If they are coordinated and the interference is caused by propagation then both groups should modify their antennas to mitigate the problem.

Thank you Mac, after 28 years in the military and working with hundreds of Phillipinos over the years I should have known that they speak Tagalog.

Actually I do know that and have for 30 years, someone else said they speak spanish not me.
I do not know the answer to that at this time,

working on the antennas could solve it here locally

Mark

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ June 01 2007,16:31)]I saw an aqua and white Nash Metropolitan on the road just the other day... #(or were they ALL aqua and white? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

# #Are the other operators operating simplex or through a repeater?
# #If they are operating through a repeater, then TASMA should be able to help work out an amicable solution acceptable to all. #TASMA would probably have a bit more persuasive power if there's interference caused by a "distant' repeater.
# #While not the easiest solution, if they ARE using a new repeater, both machines may have to use CTCSS tones. #
# #(Here in So. Cal, we have a similar problem between a repeater in the South Bay/Redondo Beach and a repeater in San Diego. #CTCSS eliminates MOST interference, but some still occurs.)
TASMA is or is in the process of being the mediator

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ June 01 2007,16:34)]You may want to see if what you're hearing is via EchoLink. There are a number of Filipino groups on EchoLink. There used to be a couple repeaters in the Las Vegas area on EchoLink regularly, too - I see two in Henderson currently logged in. There was a *MABUHAY* group at one time, but I don't see it #currently active.
Thankyou very much for that info,

Mark

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ June 01 2007,16:05)]Again, without trying to be sarcastic.......
Isn't this an issue for the COORDINATOR in your area?
Maybe there is no cooridination of repeaters across state lines there, I simply do not know, and it certainly was NOT part of the original post.

The original post simply described people talking on a repeater, as being the source of interference.

You may or may not be familiar with HF operation, but the analogy to interference on HF was inapropriate.
There IS no coordination, of assigned stations, on the HF Ham bands.

Frank
currently TASMA is or will soon be involved
Over and Out Thank You
73 KE6SMA

[w9is]

Quote[/b] (ke6sma @ May 31 2007,18:49)]Anyone in the SOCAL or close by area receiving interference from a group of Filippino speaking ham operators on 2m? I believe they are in the Las Vegas or Henderson Nev. area They have a 7 id in their call sign, the frequency is 146.64mhz. The call may have changed. JUST LOOKING for others that may be receiving interference on the same frequency in surrounding areas.
Marunong ba kayong mag-Tagalog? Ingglés?

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ June 01 2007,16:34)]You may want to see if what you're hearing is via EchoLink. There are a number of Filipino groups on EchoLink. There used to be a couple repeaters in the Las Vegas area on EchoLink regularly, too - I see two in Henderson currently logged in. There was a *MABUHAY* group at one time, but I don't see it currently active.
Whether it's Echolink or direct use by Amateurs in the area, the signal STILL has to be coming through a repeater, so any tie-in to Echolink is immaterial. U.S. hams would have to ID in English; the repeater would have to ID in English or Morse. But the interference would be the same, Echolink or not.

[wa6itf]

As a former coordinator in SoCal (Vice Chair of the Southern California Repeater Assn - from 1977 to 1979 -- SCRA being the predecessor to TASMA) this is a situation that is a matter for the repeater owner-operators to handle in assoociation with the coordinator(s).

Assuming that both repeaters are coordinated, If you are a repeater owner-operator and your repeater is suffering on-channel interference from another repeater, your first step is to notify your frequency coordinator (in this case TASMA) of the problem. It then becomes TASMA's obligation to contact the other repeater and advise oits owner-operator of the interference and attempt to rectify the situation. If the other repeater is outside TASMA's area of political influence and coordination jurisdiction, then TASMA would contact the coordination body that coordinated the interfereing repeater and request that it act to mitigate the interference.

Now, if the other repeater causing the interference is uncoordinated, then it becomes the responsibility of the coordinator in the geographic region where it operates to decide if it warrants notifying the FCC's enforcement folks. If it did the FCC then would likely -- but not necessarilly -- issue a directive to the uncoordinated repeater to minimize its interference to the coordinated repeater. The FCC has issued such orders many times in the past and in most though not in all cases this affects a solution.

Also, and this is very important. The preceeding applies only if you are the repeater owner operator. If you are just a repeater user who is complaining about intereference, your singular channel to make such a complaint is to the owner-operator of the repeater you are using. If he/she considers the problem signifigant then that person -- and only that person is the one who is legally suffering the interference and the only person who legally can request mitigation.

The reason: A repeater "user" (except on totally "Private" category repeaters where all users are deemed as control stations) has no legal ground to take any other action. Quite simply, even though his/her QSO may be that being interfered with, no user on an "open" category repeater has any more right to complain about interference than as a guesat in another hams hope when he/she is asked to shut down by the station owner. As far as the FCC rules are concerned, the repeater belongs only to the singular person whose callsign appears on it and to nobody else. Therefore, in the legal sense, only the callsign on the repeater itself suffers from the interference.

Confusing, isn't it? Well, maybe the words of one of the "old sages" of repeater operation in SoCal are apropos here. They are: "A repeater users only 'right' is to use my repeater if I decide to let him. Users have no other rights!"

As to language used on a repeater: There is no rule that states folkls must speak English on a repeater -- or in individual one-on-one QSO's for that matter. The only obligation is that a station identify by callsign at the beginning and end of a QSO and a prescrived intervals during it.

de
WA6ITF

[WA9SVD]

I believe you left a few points unclear. First of all, there may be "interference" experienced by BOTH repeaters, not just one. That is unspecified at this time, but that would make resolution advantageous to both groups.

If the other repeater IS coordinated, then yes, it's best to let the coordination body (TASMA in this case) work with them if they are also coordinated by TASMA. Otherwise,as suggested, TASMA would seem to be required to contact the other coordination group to arrive at an agreeable resolution.

But in the event of an uncoordianted repeater, again, I would suspect TASMA would work with all involved, and have the local coordination group first NOTIFY the other repeater that it's uncoordinated operation is causing interference to a coordinated repeater in another jurisdiction. Going directly to the FCC would seem counterproductive and breed resentment; I would think the FCC rules require notification of the uncoordinated repeater that they are causing interference, and allowed time to make a good faith effort to remedy the situation before filing a complaint with the FCC.
Again, this all requires the cooperative effort of the repeater owners AND the coordination bodies.