A Liberal Worth Supporting

[w5klb]

This woman is an actress and former beauty queen. She claims that Hugo Chavez is a "liar" and is "dishonest." She believes that Bellefonte and Danny Glover are "good people" but very "naive." She professes to be "liberal." She strongly believes that Hugo Chavez is a DICTATOR and that he manipulated the last election. She also claims that the MAJORITY of Venezuelans do NOT support Chavez, but are afraid to speak out against him for fear of being jailed. Chavez has restricted their freedoms including freedom of speech. Who am I talking about? It's none other than Maria Conchita Alonzo former Miss Venezuela. Her and her family escaped Castro's Cuba when she was a small child and it seems, that with Hugo Chavez coming to power, it was deja vu all over again. It's no wonder that she's on a mission to topple both Chavez and Castro. All she wants is freedom and democracy for Cuba and Venezuela.

Just Say "No" to Hugo (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04232007/gossip/pagesix/no_to_hugo_pagesix_.htm)

You go girl!

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,00:41)]This woman is an actress and former beauty queen." She professes to be "liberal." She strongly believes that Hugo Chavez is a DICTATOR and that he manipulated the last election. #Chavez has restricted their freedoms including freedom of speech. Who am I talking about? It's none other than Maria Conchita Alonzo former Miss Venezuela. Her and her family escaped Castro's Cuba when she was a small child and it seems, that with Hugo Chavez coming to power, it was deja vu all over again. It's no wonder that she's on a mission to topple both Chavez and Castro. All she wants is freedom and democracy for Cuba and Venezuela.

Just Say "No" to Hugo (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04232007/gossip/pagesix/no_to_hugo_pagesix_.htm)

You go girl!
Quote[/b] ]
She strongly believes that Hugo Chavez is a DICTATOR and that he manipulated the last election.


Lots of people belive that Bush manipulated at least 2 elections. Abd they have more factual evidence to back up their claims. Could it be that Bush is a student of Hugo ?

Quote[/b] ]
She also claims that the MAJORITY of Venezuelans do NOT support Chavez, but are afraid to speak out against him for fear of being jailed.


Yeah right. Thats why when they had their chance as Chavez was thrown out of office in a military coup thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets in mass protest demanding he be reinstated as president. Seems to me if he was such a hated and feared evil tyrant they would have jumped at such a golden opportunity and supported the military coup rather than rallying en mass for Chavez's return to power.

Quote[/b] ]
She claims that Hugo Chavez is a "liar" and is "dishonest." She believes that Bellefonte and Danny Glover are "good people" but very "naive.


If you have ever listened to Harry Belafonte discuss history and politics you would immediatly become aware that the man is anything but naive. You may not agree with him but Belefonte is extremely knowledgeable with regards to world wide political issues both historically and in the present and has a keen ability to draw upon events and relate things politically. # Saying that Harry Belafonte is naive is like trying to say that Steven hawking knows absolutely nothing about physics and math.

Quote[/b] ]
er and her family escaped Castro's Cuba when she was a small child and it seems, that with Hugo Chavez coming to power, it was deja vu all over again. It's no wonder that she's on a mission to topple both Chavez and Castro. All she wants is freedom and democracy for Cuba and Venezuela.


The circumstances surrounding Castro and Cuba versus Chavez and Venezuela are entirely different. #Lots of people can claim to be lots of things but it doesn;t mean they have viable facts or nessesarilly know what they are talking about.

Puleeze...don't let this "actress" sell you any bridges connecting Brooklyn with Manhattan Island.

[CapeClover]

Here ya go !! Another bleeding heart liberal LIB/DUM defending his socialist hero Chavez. Typical LIB/DUM nonsense.

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] (CapeClover @ May 21 2007,05:14)]Here ya go !! Another bleeding heart liberal LIB/DUM defending his socialist hero Chavez. Typical LIB/DUM nonsense.
CapeCockroach strikes again. Who is that masked whiner?

[n2nh]

Here ya go!! Another actor running for office and the righties are ready to make her Queen. A former 'beauty queen?' Great qualifications and actress AND a beauty queen. How did Fox miss hiring her? Oh, yeah, she's nearly 40 now isn't she?

BTW, the other great Republican Presidential contender is still dead, but as usual, they have a plan!

http://i5.tinypic.com/6atbh4l.jpg

[W3MIV]

Venezuelan politics is no more our business than American politics is Hugo's business.

[KW4MW]

Ah Gary #5klb. #

Son you've riled the lib-bots with this one. #You say she professes to be a lib but has ideas counter to the liberal playbook. In their book that's just unthinkable so to them she's not a person that thinks (again counter to being a liberal) but she's a traitor to their cause. #

Notice that in spite of the topic that ize and nh managed to squeeze off another few rounds at Reagan and Bush. #NO wonder no one takes their blatherings seriously anymore, Hell they can't even stay on topic. #I swear someone could post the most innoculous subject on this forum and those two, plus a few like minded (narrow that is) would find a way to turn it into a Bush/conservative bash fest.

klb - keep up the good work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 20 2007,23:55)]Ah Gary 5klb.

Son you've riled the lib-bots with this one. You say she professes to be a lib but has ideas counter to the liberal playbook. In their book that's just unthinkable so to them she's not a person that thinks (again counter to being a liberal) but she's a traitor to their cause.

Notice that in spite of the topic that ize and nh managed to squeeze off another few rounds at Reagan and Bush. NO wonder no one takes their blatherings seriously anymore, Hell they can't even stay on topic. I swear someone could post the most innoculous subject on this forum and those two, plus a few like minded (narrow that is) would find a way to turn it into a Bush/conservative bash fest.

klb - keep up the good work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Cracks me up. Nobody's roiled up 'cept my buddy, Gary. He is excited about a liberal he can agree with. Nothing wrong with that.

And CapeClover who seems to be a Chavez operative sent by Hugo to disrupt our website here.

Also, it is curious that Bush has not been bashed in this thread either. No one has attacked Bush for something he has allegedly done. Simply innocent statements.

Meltdown so early in the thread is uncommon for even Mikey.

lib-bots
liberal playbook
she's a traitor
squeeze off another few rounds
blatherings
Bush/conservative bash fest

Where did all of this come from? I mean really in this thread?

[N3ATS]

Do you Bushido's even know WHY Venezuela is being demonized?

Because Dumya and Co WANT you to buy Saudi Oil. That's where all Dumya's friends are and that's who made him rich.

Buy Saudi Oil. Millions of stockholders depend on you.

[n7rjd]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 20 2007,18:04)]Lots of people belive that Bush manipulated at least 2 elections. Abd they have more factual evidence to back up their claims. Could it be that Bush is a student of Hugo ?
Could it be that when Chavez claimed Bush to be Satin it was a takes one to know one situation?

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ May 21 2007,02:57)]Venezuelan politics is no more our business than American politics is Hugo's business.
Agreed.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 21 2007,04:55)]Ah Gary #5klb. #

Son you've riled the lib-bots with this one. #You say she professes to be a lib but has ideas counter to the liberal playbook. In their book that's just unthinkable so to them she's not a person that thinks (again counter to being a liberal) but she's a traitor to their cause. #

Notice that in spite of the topic that ize and nh managed to squeeze off another few rounds at Reagan and Bush. #NO wonder no one takes their blatherings seriously anymore, Hell they can't even stay on topic. #I swear someone could post the most innoculous subject on this forum and those two, plus a few like minded (narrow that is) would find a way to turn it into a Bush/conservative bash fest.

klb - keep up the good work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
We stopped taking YOU seriously a loooong time ago, MM.

Your "let's not play with ize or nh" schtick was worn out the second time you used it.

For someone who whines about intolerance by "liberals", you seem to enjoy the free speech smackdown any chance you get.

Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (KE7DLG @ May 21 2007,01:32)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 20 2007,18:04)]Lots of people belive that Bush manipulated at least 2 elections. Abd they have more factual evidence to back up their claims. Could it be that Bush is a student of Hugo ?
Could it be that when Chavez claimed Bush to be Satin it was a takes one to know one situation?
Yeah. I thought he would call Bush "Fine Linen" or maybe even felt or flannel. But no way Satin.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,03:41)]She also claims that the MAJORITY of Venezuelans do NOT support Chavez, but are afraid to speak out against him for fear of being jailed.
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,02:04)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,03:41)]She also claims that the MAJORITY of Venezuelans do NOT support Chavez, but are afraid to speak out against him for fear of being jailed.
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.
Yeah, but they support Chavez, and therefore they do not count.

You need to provide us with Venezuelans who do not support Chavez AND they support Chavez.

Yeah. That's the ticket.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 21 2007,05:55)]Ah Gary #5klb. #

Son you've riled the lib-bots with this one. #You say she professes to be a lib but has ideas counter to the liberal playbook. In their book that's just unthinkable so to them she's not a person that thinks (again counter to being a liberal) but she's a traitor to their cause. #

Notice that in spite of the topic that ize and nh managed to squeeze off another few rounds at Reagan and Bush. #NO wonder no one takes their blatherings seriously anymore, Hell they can't even stay on topic. #I swear someone could post the most innoculous subject on this forum and those two, plus a few like minded (narrow that is) would find a way to turn it into a Bush/conservative bash fest.

klb - keep up the good work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Aye, Aye Chief. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w5klb]

Jerry, 9XR sez:
Quote[/b] ]...You need to provide us with Venezuelans who do not support Chavez AND they support Chavez.

Yeah. #That's the ticket.
Jerry, 9XR

This would be impossible because Dictator Comrade Chavez has made a decree that ANYONE that speaks out against him or his central committee goes to prison for FIVE (5) years.

It appears to me that Chavez is following Castro's playbook to the letter.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,08:04)]
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.
Well, duuuuh. If they spoke out against Dictator Comrade Chavez, they would go to jail and you wouldn't hear from them again. Chavez has the tendency to eliminate his opposition.

Chavez claimed Bush was the devil and that Bush smelled like "brimstone." Well, I can smell Chavez's BS #here in 5 land. Imagine what it smells like to MOST of the Venezuelans in his country. I'll bet the stench is unbearable. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Chavez and Castro should be called "The Ball Brothers" because they hang together.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 21 2007,05:55)]Ah Gary #5klb. #

Son you've riled the lib-bots with this one. #You say she professes to be a lib but has ideas counter to the liberal playbook. In their book that's just unthinkable so to them she's not a person that thinks (again counter to being a liberal) but she's a traitor to their cause. #

Notice that in spite of the topic that ize and nh managed to squeeze off another few rounds at Reagan and Bush. #NO wonder no one takes their blatherings seriously anymore, Hell they can't even stay on topic. #I swear someone could post the most innoculous subject on this forum and those two, plus a few like minded (narrow that is) would find a way to turn it into a Bush/conservative bash fest.

klb - keep up the good work http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
This is about the funniest counter post I have ever read.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (CapeClover @ May 21 2007,01:14)]Here ya go !! Another bleeding heart liberal LIB/DUM defending his socialist hero Chavez. Typical LIB/DUM nonsense.
Loser.

What's your callsign, station?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,09:01)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,08:04)]
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.


Chavez claimed Bush was the devil and that Bush smelled like "brimstone." Well, I can smell Chavez's BS #here in 5 land. Imagine what it smells like to MOST of the Venezuelans in his country. I'll bet the stench is unbearable. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Chavez and Castro should be called "The Ball Brothers" because they hang together.
Quote[/b] ]
Well, duuuuh. If they spoke out against Dictator Comrade Chavez, they would go to jail and you wouldn't #hear from them again. Chavez has the tendency to eliminate his opposition.


Gee, you know more about what is going on in Venezuela than the Venezuelan's do.

You're still missing the key point. If Chavez if the monster that you make him out to be and if the people are so suppressed by him and dislike him so much then they had a wonderful golden opportunity when Chavez was kicked out and removed from power by the military coup which the US supported. Face it, Chavaz was OUT, GONE, KAPUT !! That should have been been a moment of celebration. Instead the Venezuelan people took to the streets in angry protest demanding Chavez be returned to power. That doesn't sound like the behavior of people who just got rid of a tyrant, does it ? They must be crazy, eh ? They have a dictator tyrant who is terrorizing them, he is forced out of power and forced to leave and the people go out in the streets en mass demanding he be returned to power.

Either the majority of Venezuelans are extremely dumb and into self torture or you've been hoodwinked. Hate to say I think it's the latter.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,12:01)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,08:04)]
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.
Well, duuuuh. If they spoke out against Dictator Comrade Chavez, they would go to jail and you wouldn't hear from them again. Chavez has the tendency to eliminate his opposition.
Well duuuuuuuuh. Those people are not in Venezuela neither I am, they are friends I have who work here, who have family here, they travel to Venezuela regularly for vacation, they feel no threat what so ever, if they would be so afraid about Chavez, they would not go back now would they?

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,11:35)]Jerry, 9XR sez:
Quote[/b] ]...You need to provide us with Venezuelans who do not support Chavez AND they support Chavez.

Yeah. That's the ticket.
Jerry, 9XR

This would be impossible because Dictator Comrade Chavez has made a decree that ANYONE that speaks out against him or his central committee goes to prison for FIVE (5) years.
Well, I didn't know he had jurisdiction outside his country.

[N2RJ]

The MYTH that Chavez is massively unpopular and that people are afraid to speak against him is a lie.

Why is it a lie?

Because people like Chavez, even though many are afraid of him.

Chavez paints a picture of himself as a champion of the poor. He is also all about nationalizing every industry in Venezuela, especially oil.

The rich folks hate him, but the poor folks love him!

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,09:24)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,12:01)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,08:04)]
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.
Well, duuuuh. If they spoke out against Dictator Comrade Chavez, they would go to jail and you wouldn't #hear from them again. Chavez has the tendency to eliminate his opposition.
Well duuuuuuuuh. Those people are not in Venezuela neither I am, they are friends I have who work here, who have family here, they travel to Venezuela regularly for vacation, they feel no threat what so ever, if they would be so afraid about Chavez, they would not go back now would they?
You love to entrap people, especially those who you don't agree with, don't you? Admitting a problem is the first step towards correcting defects in charactor. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,02:35)]Jerry, 9XR sez:
Quote[/b] ]...You need to provide us with Venezuelans who do not support Chavez AND they support Chavez.

Yeah. That's the ticket.
Jerry, 9XR

This would be impossible because Dictator Comrade Chavez has made a decree that ANYONE that speaks out against him or his central committee goes to prison for FIVE (5) years.

It appears to me that Chavez is following Castro's playbook to the letter.
Thank you for proving my point.

[K0RGR]

Chavez is just another in a long line of 'elected dictators' who've dominated South America for much of the last two centuries.

There has always been a dictum that one democracy will never attack another one. I'm not so sure I believe that when the elections are as skewed as they are here and in places like Iran.

If Chavez invites in Iranian missiles, as the Cubans did with Russia, then we'll have to take him out - End of Discussion.

Meanwhile, he is the elected president of Venezuela, and while he seems to be illegally extending his powers now, we can't intervene without extremely good reason, and despite all his poisonous rhetoric, I don't see one yet.

He bears watching - his politics could spread through all of South America, which would be bad for us.

Meanwhile, I had to chuckle when he called Mr. Bush "El Diablo".

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 21 2007,09:17)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,09:01)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,08:04)]
I have some Venezuelan friends, lower middle class people, and they support Chavez.


Chavez claimed Bush was the devil and that Bush smelled like "brimstone." Well, I can smell Chavez's BS #here in 5 land. Imagine what it smells like to MOST of the Venezuelans in his country. I'll bet the stench is unbearable. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Chavez and Castro should be called "The Ball Brothers" because they hang together.
Quote[/b] ]
Well, duuuuh. If they spoke out against Dictator Comrade Chavez, they would go to jail and you wouldn't #hear from them again. Chavez has the tendency to eliminate his opposition.


Gee, you know more about what is going on in Venezuela than the Venezuelan's do.

You're still missing the key point. If Chavez if the monster that you make him out to be and if the people are so suppressed by him and dislike him so much then they had a wonderful golden opportunity when Chavez was kicked out and removed from power by the military coup which the US supported. Face it, Chavaz was OUT, GONE, KAPUT !! That should have been been a moment of celebration. Instead the Venezuelan people took to the streets in angry protest demanding Chavez be returned to power. That doesn't sound like the behavior of people who just got rid of a tyrant, does it ? #They must be crazy, eh ? They have a dictator tyrant #who is terrorizing them, he is forced out of power and forced to leave and the people go out in the streets en mass demanding he be returned to power.

Either the majority of Venezuelans are extremely dumb and into self torture or you've been hoodwinked. Hate to say I think it's the latter.
Comrade IZE,

Who do you think most freedom loving people with common sense are going to believe: Someone with experience living inside Venezuela, OR a mere far-left socialist intellectual from 2 land who isn't overly impressed with democracy in general? I think that enlighten posters and readers can pretty much figure out the answer for themselves.

The only suggestion I have for you is to brush up on your Spanish and move south... waaaaay south... like Venezuela or perhaps Cuba.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 21 2007,11:10)]Chavez is just another in a long line of 'elected dictators' who've dominated South America for much of the last two centuries.

There has always been a dictum that one democracy will never attack another one. I'm not so sure I believe that when the elections are as skewed as they are here and in places like Iran.

If Chavez invites in Iranian missiles, as the Cubans did with Russia, then we'll have to take him out - End of Discussion.

Meanwhile, he is the elected president of Venezuela, and while he seems to be illegally extending his powers now, we can't intervene without extremely good reason, and despite all his poisonous rhetoric, I don't see one yet.

He bears watching - his politics could spread through all of South America, which would be bad for us.

Meanwhile, I had to chuckle when he called Mr. Bush "El Diablo".
RGR,

You and your fellow liberals can think and say anything you like about Bush. You live in The United States where "Freedom of Speech" is guaranteed and you have earned the right, no matter how much I may disagree with you. However, people in Venezuela don't have those rights anymore thanks to Comrade Hugo.

Ms. Alonso claims that Americans takes freedoms for granted. I strongly agree with her.

Whether you like or hate George Bush, I still think we live in THE greatest country in the world, bar none. Sure there are things that need to be fixed, but isn't it grand that we are able to come together for a solution and can express ourselves without fear of being imprisoned for doing so? I do.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (n9xr @ May 21 2007,10:41)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,02:35)]Jerry, 9XR sez:
Quote[/b] ]...You need to provide us with Venezuelans who do not support Chavez AND they support Chavez.

Yeah. #That's the ticket.
Jerry, 9XR

This would be impossible because Dictator Comrade Chavez has made a decree that ANYONE that speaks out against him or his central committee goes to prison for FIVE (5) years.

It appears to me that Chavez is following Castro's playbook to the letter.
Thank you for proving my point.
Wait... for a just a millisecond I though I was going to get the XYL to break out the smelling salts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,11:37)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 21 2007,11:10)]Chavez is just another in a long line of 'elected dictators' who've dominated South America for much of the last two centuries.

There has always been a dictum that one democracy will never attack another one. I'm not so sure I believe that when the elections are as skewed as they are here and in places like Iran.

If Chavez invites in Iranian missiles, as the Cubans did with Russia, then we'll have to take him out - End of Discussion.

Meanwhile, he is the elected president of Venezuela, and while he seems to be illegally extending his powers now, we can't intervene without extremely good reason, and despite all his poisonous rhetoric, I don't see one yet.

He bears watching - his politics could spread through all of South America, which would be bad for us.

Meanwhile, I had to chuckle when he called Mr. Bush "El Diablo".
RGR,

You and your fellow liberals can think and say anything you like about Bush. You live in The United States where "Freedom of Speech" is guaranteed and you have earned the right, no matter how much I may disagree with you. However, people in Venezuela don't have those rights anymore thanks to Comrade Hugo.

Ms. Alonso claims that Americans takes freedoms for granted. I strongly agree with her.

Whether you like or hate George Bush, I still think we live in THE greatest country in the world, bar none. Sure there are things that need to be fixed, but isn't it grand that we are able to come together for a solution and can express ourselves without fear of being imprisoned for doing so? I do.
Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.

Face the reality. Under Chavez the poor people of Venezuala have made positive gains. Better education, better job and business opportinities, etc. He is despised by the corporate elite because he has partially socialized some of the key infrastructure so that more of the ROI goes to Venezuala and it's people rather than the pockets of a select few billionaires. That's why he is so despised by some and revered by others.

What goes on in Venezuela is Venezuela's business.Perhaps we should focus on our own business here for a change.

[w5klb]

IZE tells me:

Quote[/b] ]Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.

Really? Got a link to support this or is this more "hooray for Comrade Hugo" propaganda? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Quote[/b] ]Face the reality. Under Chavez the poo people of Venezuala have made positive gains.

Okay, I'll bite: What so "positive" about being forced to give up basic freedoms? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Quote[/b] ]He is despised by the corporate elite because he has partially socialized some of the key infrastructure so that more of the ROI goes to Venezuala and it's people rather than the pockets of a select few billionaires. That's why he is so despised by some and revered by others.

"Key infrastructure?" You mean the now state controlled oil fields that supports his dictatorship?. I know people locally that work for ConocoPhillips that can tell you all about Hugo Chavez. Their opinion of him is not good. I think the term they use describe him is "shady." #Your mileage clearly varies.

And to think the oil company Citgo, formerly Cities Service Oil Company, was once headquartered right in my home town. Funny thing though, you won't see a Citgo station anywhere in my neck of the woods. Comrade Hugo closed them and I can safely say that Oklahomans in general are thankful. Most of us don't care to spend our hard working dollars to support a socialist dictator who denies his own people basic freedoms and who would call our President, Democrat or Republican, "the devil."

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,15:49)]IZE tells me:

Quote[/b] ]Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.

Really? Got a link to support this or is this more "hooray for Comrade Hugo" propaganda? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
What? A link to support that fact?
Man, that was all over the news and it is a known story, when it happened nobody could escape it. Where were you in april 2002?

I feel for you, so there's a link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt)

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,13:35)]You love to entrap people, especially those who you don't agree with, don't you?
Please explain http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,13:02)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,13:35)]You love to entrap people, especially those who you don't agree with, don't you?
Please explain http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
By not explaining your point fully and then saying basically "I got cha!" It seemed to me that it was entrapment. But don't worry, I'm not mad or upset with you, Canadian neighbor. Even if I was mad at you, I can get happy in the same pair of pants I got mad in. Life continues...

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,12:11)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,13:02)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,13:35)]You love to entrap people, especially those who you don't agree with, don't you?
Please explain http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
By not explaining your point fully and then saying basically "I got cha!" It seemed to me that it was entrapment. But don't worry, I'm not mad or upset with you, Canadian neighbor. Even if I was mad at you, I can get happy in the same pair of pants I got mad in. Life continues...
One error, Gary.

He's in the Republica Dominicana...

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,13:01)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,15:49)]IZE tells me:

Quote[/b] ]Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.

Really? Got a link to support this or is this more "hooray for Comrade Hugo" propaganda? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
What? A link to support that fact?
Man, that was all over the news and it is a known story, when it happened nobody could escape it. Where were you in april 2002?

In a VA hospital in Topeka KS.

Quote[/b] ]I feel for you, so there's a link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt)
Quote[/b] ]The coup was publicly condemned by Latin American nations (the Rio Group presidents were gathered together in San José, Costa Rica, at the time, and were able to issue a joint communiqué) and international organizations. The United States, which had acknowledged the de facto Carmona government, condemned the coup after Chávez had been restored to power.[4] Upon news of Chávez's return, Condoleezza Rice, then National Security Advisor to U.S. President George W. Bush, said: "We do hope that Chávez recognizes that the whole world is watching and that he takes advantage of this opportunity to right his own ship, which has been moving, frankly, in the wrong direction for quite a long time."[5]

bold added for emphases

This reinforces my point that Hugo Chavez is socialist dictator.

Thanks for the link.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ May 21 2007,13:20)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,12:11)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,13:02)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,13:35)]You love to entrap people, especially those who you don't agree with, don't you?
Please explain http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
By not explaining your point fully and then saying basically "I got cha!" It seemed to me that it was entrapment. But don't worry, I'm not mad or upset with you, Canadian neighbor. Even if I was mad at you, I can get happy in the same pair of pants I got mad in. Life continues...
One error, Gary.

He's in the Republica Dominicana...
It's no big deal, Dave. Let it go.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,16:32)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ May 21 2007,13:01)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,15:49)]IZE tells me:

Quote[/b] ]Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.

Really? Got a link to support this or is this more "hooray for Comrade Hugo" propaganda? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
What? A link to support that fact?
Man, that was all over the news and it is a known story, when it happened nobody could escape it. Where were you in april 2002?

In a VA hospital in Topeka KS.

Quote[/b] ]I feel for you, so there's a link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt)
Quote[/b] ]The coup was publicly condemned by Latin American nations (the Rio Group presidents were gathered together in San José, Costa Rica, at the time, and were able to issue a joint communiqué) and international organizations. The United States, which had acknowledged the de facto Carmona government, condemned the coup after Chávez had been restored to power.[4] Upon news of Chávez's return, Condoleezza Rice, then National Security Advisor to U.S. President George W. Bush, said: "We do hope that Chávez recognizes that the whole world is watching and that he takes advantage of this opportunity to right his own ship, which has been moving, frankly, in the wrong direction for quite a long time."[5]

bold added for emphases

This reinforces my point that Hugo Chavez is socialist dictator.

Thanks for the link.
Socialist, most certainly and it's a good thing. Dictator? Why?

A dictator like Hussein or Castro or Trujillo succeds because of the powerful close followers of the regime, not because of the people, Chavez came back in power for exactly the opposite.

"Socialist" and "dictator" are not inseparable, despite the US propaganda to make us think otherwise http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,12:49)]IZE tells me:

Quote[/b] ]Again, if Chavez was the evil wicked tyrant dictator you claim him to be rest assured his people would not have demanded his return when he was ousted in a coup and removed from the country.


Quote[/b] ]Face the reality. Under Chavez the poo people of Venezuala have made positive gains.


Quote[/b] ]He is despised by the corporate elite because he has partially socialized some of the key infrastructure so that more of the ROI goes to Venezuala and it's people rather than the pockets of a select few billionaires. That's why he is so despised by some and revered by others.
Quote[/b] ]
Really? Got a link to support this or is this more "hooray for Comrade Hugo" propaganda? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


Much as it is historically factual that there was a French revolution and an American revolution it's pretty much historical fact that can be found via almost any reasonably objective and semi intelligent source of information. At this There was indeed a military coup in Venezuala which was backed by Venezuala's wealthy and by the USA. Chavez was ousted by the military coup in particular due to his movement to socialize the oil industry (i.e. you don''t mess with big oil). Grassroots demonstrators consisting primarilly of Venezuela's poor and working classes were seen on Venezuela's streets involving some rather intense demonstrations and at times violent clashes between Venezuela's pro-Chavez poor and the wealthy corporatists. Ultimately the pro Chavez crowd got their point across and Chavez was returned to Venezuala and was placed back into the office of the presidency. That seems like strange behavior coming from people who hate Chavez.


Quote[/b] ]
Okay, I'll bite: What so "positive" about being forced to give up basic freedoms? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


Indeed, nobody, including myself is trying to say that Chavez is anything wonderful or that his leadership in any way shape or form is a model of "political perfection". The principle allegations regarding Chaves and the freedoms of the peoples of Venezuela revolves not so much around the rights of individual behavior but rather the rights concerning freedom of speech and freedom of press. Human rights organizations have indeed criticized Chavez for seemingly clamping down on the press and open free speech. It can be argues on Chavez's behalf that it is part of his own paranoia and fear that the press could become a rallying point for yet another coup attempt. Inddeed, time will tell is Chavez makes good and lifts the restrictions leading to a truly free Venezuelan press.

What gains have been acheived ? For the poorer Venezuelans better access to education, better jobs, improved business and investment opportunities for Venezuelan citizens. Yet there does still exist significant poverty. Again, the sincerity of Chavez commitment to the poor and to building a better Venezuela will be determined over time.

Quote[/b] ]
"Key infrastructure?" You mean the now state controlled oil fields that supports his dictatorship?. I know people locally that work for ConocoPhillips that can tell you all about Hugo Chavez. Their opinion of him is not good. I think the term they use describe him is "shady." #Your mileage clearly varies.


The entire oil business is pretty "shady" and I doubt anyone can be involved with the oil buisiness at any level an not appear shady in one way shape or form. We can talk about "shady" oil businesses as we watch our own oil prices skyrocket over the course of the summer. Maybe Chavez is indeed shady but it appears that many Venezuelans consider him to be far less shady than the oil interests who were extracting Venezuelan oil and giving Venezuela little if any return. At least under Chavez more of that oil money appears to be coming back to venezuela rather than the pockets of a few select billionaries. That is largely what is going to matter to the venezuelan people and their continued support or lack of support for Chavez.

Chavez may turn out to be the most diabolically corrupt and 2 faced leader that venezuela and it's immediate neighbors have ever seen. Or, he may turn out to be the saviour of Venezuela, the one who reduced or eliminated poverty and made Venezuela a far better place to live. Only time will tell which of the two will be. If indeed the latter turns out to be true rest assured many of Venezuela's neighbors will follow suite.

[w5klb]

IZE,

People who voted for Chavez could of made a mistake and are now having regrets. It happens. After all, aren't you one of the ones that claim we made a mistake electing George Bush?

Did you not read what I quoted from the link sited from Wikipedia? The ENTIRE LATIN AMERICAN WORLD COMDEMED HUGO CHAVEZ for his coupe. Restricting FREEDOM and LIBERY from people is wrong. I would think that they, along with Maria Conchita Alonzo, know some things about Chavez that you do not, or refuse to see.

Maybe you need put away your copy of Das Kapital and do remedial reading on such people as Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Adam Smith.

Democracy, freedom and liberty beats the extreme restrictive nature of socialism. Hugo is a SOCIALIST, cut and dried. Karl Marx would be proud of Hugo.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,17:29)]Did you not read what I quoted from the link sited from Wikipedia? The ENTIRE LATIN AMERICAN WORLD COMDEMED HUGO CHAVEZ for his coupe.
Well, I'm sure we're talking the same things with different words but I need something to be cleared out of the way:
Hugo Chavez did NOT orchestrated any "coup d'état", he was elected in 1998 and his government was VICTIM of a coup in 2002. Then the people take to the street to complain about this "coup" and he took his place back.

Of course, the bulk of latin america countries (and many in europe too) condemned the coup!

Just to make sure we're on the same wavelength http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Quote[/b] ]Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 was a failed military coup d'état on April 11, 2002. It saw the brief overthrow and arrest of leftist Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez and the installation of a rightist businessman, Venezuelan Federation of Chambers of Commerce (Fedecámaras) president Pedro Carmona, as interim president for 47 hours. In Caracas, the coup led to riots and a pro-Chávez uprising that the Metropolitan Police attempted to suppress. Key sectors of the military[1] and parts of the anti-Chávez movement refused to back Carmona.[2][3] The pro-Chávez Presidential Guard eventually retook the Miraflores presidential palace without firing a shot, leading to the collapse of the Carmona government and the re-installation of Chávez as president.

The coup was publicly condemned by Latin American nations (the Rio Group presidents were gathered together in San José, Costa Rica, at the time, and were able to issue a joint communiqué) and international organizations. The United States, which had acknowledged the de facto Carmona government, condemned the coup after Chávez had been restored to power.

Bold emphasis and underline by me http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W2ILP]

Yes...The majority of wealthy Venezuelans do not support Chavez, just as the majority of wealthy Cubans have never supported Castro...But wealthy Venezuelans and Cubans are not the majority of Venezuelans or Cubans...nor can they all win beauty contests.

Both Hugo and Fidel are Socialists...so what can we expect. Socialists or Communists themselves do no harm to average Americans...They do not stop us from being capitalists or dreamers...and some day like the Russians and the Chinese they may evolve into being Capitalists themselves...if we leave them alone and just sell them modems, movies and music.

w2ilp (I Like Peace)

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,14:29)]IZE,

People who voted for Chavez could of made a mistake and are now having regrets. It happens. After all, aren't you one of the ones that claim we made a mistake electing George Bush?



Maybe you need put away your copy of Das Kapital and do remedial reading on such people as Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Adam Smith.

Democracy, freedom and liberty beats the extreme restrictive nature of socialism. Hugo is a SOCIALIST, cut and dried. Karl Marx would be proud of Hugo.
Quote[/b] ]
Did you not read what I quoted from the link sited from Wikipedia? The ENTIRE LATIN AMERICAN WORLD COMDEMED HUGO CHAVEZ for his coupe. Restricting FREEDOM and LIBERY from people is wrong. I would think that they, along with Maria Conchita Alonzo, know some things about Chavez that you do not, or refuse to see.


Uh ?? Excuse me ?? If I were you I would go back to that Wikipedia article and read it a bit more carefully and a bit more slowly and think about what you are reading. Either you are in dire need of a reading comprehensoin course or, in your haste you glossed over the article without reading it carefully.

The Coup was NOT orchestrated by Chavez. Chavez was democratically elected in 1998. He did not come to power by coup The Coup was a military coup backed by wealthy corporate business leaders. The coup effectively REMOVED CHAVEZ FROM POWER !! The coup was praised by the United States and the Bush Administration. The coup was CONDEMNED by the entire Latin American world. After the coup mass protests ensued and the people of Venezuala demanded that Chavez be brought back to power. At least get the history correct. Chaves was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED. He had NOTHING TO DO with the coupe.

Here's some additional reading material.



Media, CIA, Coup (http://www.counterpunch.org/reilly0415.html)

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 21 2007,18:10)]Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 21 2007,14:29)]
Did you not read what I quoted from the link sited from Wikipedia? The ENTIRE LATIN AMERICAN WORLD COMDEMED HUGO CHAVEZ for his coupe. Restricting FREEDOM and LIBERY from people is wrong. I would think that they, along with Maria Conchita Alonzo, know some things about Chavez that you do not, or refuse to see.


Uh ?? Excuse me ?? If I were you I would go back to that Wikipedia article and read it a bit more carefully and a bit more slowly and think about what you are reading. Either you are in dire need of a reading comprehensoin course or, in your haste you glossed over the article without reading it carefully.

The Coup was NOT orchestrated by Chavez. Chavez was democratically elected in 1998. He did not come to power by coup The Coup was a military coup backed by wealthy corporate business leaders. The coup effectively REMOVED CHAVEZ FROM POWER !! The coup was praised by the United States and the Bush Administration. The coup was CONDEMNED by the entire Latin American world. After the coup mass protests ensued and the people of Venezuala demanded that Chavez be brought back to power. At least get the history correct. Chaves was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED. He had NOTHING TO DO with the coupe.
Thanks, I was not sure if I was victim of somekind of hallucination, it seem surreal to read what he wrote http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif