Welcoming New Comers [Archive]

AE1X

08-19-2002, 11:41 PM

I was recently discussing the poor welcome that my cousin KG4KPE received from the locals in his area in South Georgia. He was telling me how he was lectured about proper procedure. He was not so politely told he must refrain from using CB speak and he must conform to using Q signals in his VHF conversations.

In the first place, Q signals are intended for use as short hand primarily for CW not phone. I accept the fact that we use the Q signals and I use themself in the same manner most of us use them. It gives us a certain amount of distinction and can serve as short hand when needed, but it would seem to be just as easy to say leaving the air as it is to say going QRT. We use a non-word destinated in a similar fashion. It's not good english, but it works and in many cases sounds good as well as unique.

I find this type of intolerance objectionable. We want our newcomers to feel welcome and part of that welcome should be to be inclusive not exclusive. Many of us came from the ranks of CBers at one time or another. We grow into this hobby with time. We learned the HAM jargon and conformed, so too will the newcomers of today. Give them time and make them feel like part of the gang, not an unwelcome outsider.

There is plenty of room for all of us in this great hobby and the personal interests each of us has. We need every person interested in radio to join us. Let's not drive otherwise good people away.

AE1X:kes

VA7KBH

08-20-2002, 01:22 AM

I can only agree;

With my new license I was told by many people to get CW qualifications "or not be a ham". Personally I can't afford an HF rig, but I still do want to learn how to send CW!
Many Old Timers should recognize that new hams becoming interested in the 2m systems (which i was) is perpetuating the hobby/service.
I've met many more nice, welcoming amateurs than grumpy old ones but the grumpy ones stick in your mind longer and can scare away new licensees.

VA7KBH

N8CNJ

08-20-2002, 01:49 AM

I myself have run accross this very same thing (imagine that).

Shortly after I received my license, I purchased a slightly brokendown 2m radio from an old ham in my area. This radio wouldn't do high power but worked. Which is fine for hitting the local repeaters I needed to hit.

However, this radio also had an amplified motorola mic. Me, knowing nothing about the mic, started using it. I've been told by some of the nicer hams that the radio didn't sound right and I was distorted. I had no idea this was because of too much modulation from the amplified mic.

Anyway, I had one ham that I used to respect because of antenna help he had given me decided to try to black ball me on one of the repeaters. He flat out told me that I should take the D104 off of my radio and until I did, he would not talk to me and would ask that others followed his lead until I rectified the problem. Now if he would have told me the problem with my mic and recommended I didn't run the radio until I got the proper mic for it, I would have taken his advise and done so. But instead he chose to be an *ss about it.

I lost a lot of respect for him and a few others that took his side on the issue. Knowing I had only had my license for a month, he could have found another way to tell me what my problem was.

Oh well, this is one ham that I don't talk to unless I have to. I will be civil with him, but never respect him. It's too bad that he has to treat new hams this way. I was ready to give up and go back to CB. Friends talked me out of that. I'm glad they did because I ended up meeting a lot more hams that were very nice and helped me get my rig running properly.

KB1GYQ

08-20-2002, 02:08 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (VA7KBH @ Aug. 19 2002,21:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">With my new license I was told by many people to get CW qualifications "or not be a ham[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yup... those people want amateur radio to die off... personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license, because I do not wish to associate with that lot, even if it's just by holding an extra class license. I can have fun where I'm at; I can do public service where I'm at ... no need to join the OF's club.

N0XAS

08-20-2002, 02:35 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license, because I do not wish to associate with that lot, even if it's just by holding an extra class license. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why cut off your nose to spite your face? #If you want an Extra ticket, get one. #It's issued by the FCC, not your local repeater demi-god-wannabes. #It's YOUR ticket, not anyone else's. #99%+ of Extra ticket holders are normal, decent people -- why would you let that last 1% be your excuse - er, 'scuse me, reason not to upgrade?

If you're not going to upgrade, fine, but don't blame it on all Extras being jerks. #It's not an automatic thing. #See, this is what I like about radio. #I don't have to join a club or be like anyone else. #What I do, as long as I operate within the rules set forth, is entirely my business, and I don't have to worry about what anyone else thinks. #On those rare occasions I run into a jerk, I just don't talk to them any more. #Simple and effective. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73,
Dale
(fresh Extra)

PS - for the rest of you, I'm sorry you had a bad experience. It's really unfortunate, but like any other group of people there are good ones and bad ones. Keep looking and you'll find the good ones. They're much easier to find on HF CW if you want to make that jump, at least you can avoid the locals who may be set in their ways. If you're having a tough time finding normal, decent people on the local repeaters, try another band/mode, or get a small beam up and work some simplex or repeaters in other towns.

KC2JCA

08-20-2002, 02:48 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 19 2002,19<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yup... those people want amateur radio to die off... personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And how laughable was it to see that not only will you NOT upgrade your license, but you will also blame someone else for the demise of Ham Radio.

Thanks for the entertainment today.

73, Jim - kc2jca

ab8lq

08-20-2002, 03:08 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 19 2002,22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license, because I do not wish to associate with that lot, even if it's just by holding an extra class license. I can have fun where I'm at; I can do public service where I'm at ... no need to join the OF's club.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Instead of avoiding the upgrade, maybe a better choice would be to upgrade and become a role model of what an Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator should be. #As long as we're are content to let people who act poorly hold the "elite" licenses, those who hold those licenses are going to be poorly thought of.

If you don't like how extras act, become an extra yourself. #Encourage others who will act properly to do so as well. #Avoiding the issue won't solve it and certainly won't help the ARS image.

Sean.

N7CPC

08-20-2002, 04:44 PM

Every newcomer to anything must to some extent conform to the established norm.

Not having heard the conversations in Georgia, I can't comment to your cousin's experience. I have heard and experienced new Hams who refuse to accept any criticism as constructive. Continued use of ten codes, CB jargun, as aposed to Ham jargun, will not serve to facilitate welcome from any group of Amateurs.

Personaly, I don't see how any thinking individule can enter a new environment and expect it to conform to him/her. I entered Amateur Radio from the ranks of a much older and civilized CB community. My first Ham communication expierence was as a Novice and CW only. Proper Amateur procedures are best learned in the emersed environment of CW.

Look before you leap. Listen to the people you intend to join and join as one of them, not "one with a better way".

73 de Craig...........N7CPC

KB1GYQ

08-20-2002, 06:12 PM

kc2jca: I'm glad that you find amusement in newcomers being turned off by the old guard. It is a shame they don't have bear bating and coliseum fights anymore, isn't it.

KC2JCA

08-21-2002, 12:17 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 20 2002,11:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kc2jca: I'm glad that you find amusement in newcomers being turned off by the old guard. It is a shame they don't have bear bating and coliseum fights anymore, isn't it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I've said no such thing, my friend. What I said was, and I will paraphrase so as to bring the meaning into new light, it is a shame that you will refuse to further yourself in the hobby and then point a finger at those who remain as responsible for it's demise.

It's like the person in the urban areas of town continually showing up at the council meetings to complain about the filthy conditions of the downtown area, all the while they refuse to come downtown and help do anything about it.

If you want to stay a Technician class operator, then don't whine about the people who have become anything more.

That's what I said.

73, Jim - kc2jca

KB1GYQ

08-21-2002, 03:27 PM

My complaint is not with those who "have become more", but with those who think they have become more. The class of license one holds has very little to do with what one may offer "the service".

The "class wars" need to stop now, if new blood is going to be attracted, and kept!

KC2JCA

08-21-2002, 04:22 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 21 2002,08:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My complaint is not with those who "have become more", but with those who think they have become more. The class of license one holds has very little to do with what one may offer "the service".

The "class wars" need to stop now, if new blood is going to be attracted, and kept![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Interesting term "class wars". I think you use it improperly however. I believe what you have done is identified a personality trait and have chosen to associate that trait with holders of a certain "class" of license.

Not really a good thing to do, especially if you want things to change for the better. You might say you have become a "racial profiler" when it comes to holders of a higher class license than yourself.

For example, I am a General Class License holder. Last week I was a Technician Class License holder. This week do I think you are pond scum because you hold a Technician's Class License? No. There are other reasons why I think that.

Would I ever say to #someone interested in Ham Radio, "You aren't a real ham until you know code!"?

No, of course not. Would I encourage someone to learn the things required to upgrade their license and enjoy the new worlds open to them by higher privledge? Yes, of course I would.

I think what you are doing is confusing being a "jerk" with being an "Extra". Don't NOT upgrade because you think doing so means you have to become a moron. Upgrade because you have something positive to contribute to the License Class and show us what it means to be an Extra.

Roger?

73, Jim - kc2jca

N7CPC

08-21-2002, 08:05 PM

Funny you should mention it. I do after all have an "Advanced" personality. And "class" just goes with it.

73

KG4UPX

08-21-2002, 09:31 PM

"class wars"...hmmmmm, the last few posts read more like a scene out of the "war of the roses"

73s

K9STH

08-21-2002, 10:34 PM

A key! A key! My kingdom for a key! (CW of course) To paraphrase Shakespeare's Richard III.

Glen, K9STH

K3XR

08-21-2002, 11:19 PM

to get back to ae1x's original post....about his relative in south ga. being told, not so politely, to not use CB speak on the ham bands .....i was just wondering if you ever spoke to your relative before or after he got his ticket and informed him in a POLITE way to forget any phrase he ever heard or used on CB as it does not apply to ham radio....(except maybe 73 which was taken from ham radio)....and what some of the "ham speak" would be........perhaps you may have saved him from the truma of this encounter.....it would also be a good idea if some of the classes/publications for hams- to- be make this point to avoid the problem after the new guy gets his ticket.
dan,k3xr

mackinac

08-22-2002, 02:24 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 19 2002,19:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license, because I do not wish to associate with that lot, even if it's just by holding an extra class license. ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Unlike some other posters here I am not going to tell you really should upgrade. #If you don't want to that's your choice. #But if the reason is to avoid associating with higher class licensees, it won't do just to avoid upgrading.

Interested in building and experimenting? #Just to get an idea of who's really into high-tech experimenting I checked a recent issue of QEX. #Out of 5 articles and one column, one is authored by a VK6, _all_ the other authors are Extra class.

VHF/UHF contesting ought to be a place to find Technicians. #If we take a quick look at the results of the Jan VHF contest (QST, Aug 2002)... Well, there too many calls to look up, but checking the first "Top Ten" group we find one General and the rest are, again, all Extra class.

How about going up in frequency. #The Microwavelengths column in the latest QST has comments from four active microwave operators on how to get started in microwave. #Better stay away. #Of the four, all four are Extra class.

I have been active in various activities activities that require training and certification: private pilot, fire/EMS, as well as amateur radio. #What you find is that the most active people work to get the highest certifications. #That is just what you'd expect.

The most active hams are mostly going to try to upgrade. #The only way to really avoid associating with higher class licensees is to be as inactive as possible.

mackinac

08-22-2002, 02:47 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae1x @ Aug. 19 2002,16:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was recently discussing the poor welcome that my cousin KG4KPE received from the locals in his area in South Georgia. He was telling me how he was lectured about proper procedure. He was not so politely told he must refrain from using CB speak and he must conform to using Q signals in his VHF conversations.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That was an unfortunate 'unwelcome' that your cousin got. #But your post does raise a question: why did he choose to use CB jargon at all? #Ham radio instructors should teach their students one simple rule: use plain English. #You can fit in to just about any group that way until you learn the jargon.

But that group is south Georgia sounds a bit strange if they insist on use of Q signals. #Maybe they need to learn that plain English can work just fine in amateur radio.

KB1GYQ

08-23-2002, 01:59 PM

to mackinac:

Right now, I'm avoiding HF (except 11m http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif -- Amateur bands came first BTW... 11m is for highway use, as no one monitors 146.52). I'm having enough fun on 6m and up. I will eventually upgrade to general, but the very little extra spectrum that an "extra" gets is worth avoiding to make a statement. I don't expect that everyone will understand, but that would be a rather unrealistic expectation, nu?

There's more bandwidth in the 70cm band alone, then in ALL the HF bands combined!

N0XAS

08-23-2002, 02:32 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 23 2002,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There's more bandwidth in the 70cm band alone, then in ALL the HF bands combined![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yep. And ALL contacts I've worked on less than 1W on HF have been further than you can reach on 70CM.

KB1GYQ

08-23-2002, 03:03 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0xas @ Aug. 23 2002,10:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 23 2002,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There's more bandwidth in the 70cm band alone, then in ALL the HF bands combined![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yep. #And ALL contacts I've worked on less than 1W on HF have been further than you can reach on 70CM.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
But I can experiment with data transmittions 100khz wide... 300 symbols/second or 1khz wide is far too slow. And besides, it is often an advantage to not have everyone on half the globe competing for a narrow slice of spectrum.

N0XAS

08-23-2002, 08:20 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 23 2002,10:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But I can experiment with data transmittions 100khz wide...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Umm, yeah, me too, remember? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And besides, it is often an advantage to not have everyone on half the globe competing for a narrow slice of spectrum.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Having worked a lot of HF, I can honestly say there has never been an occasion when I couldn't find a clear spot to call CQ. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it...

73,
Dale

KB1HVS

09-07-2002, 11:19 AM

Well i have been a swl for years. I have built alot of the rigs and I got quite a bit of enjoyment and knowlage from it.I just never botherd getting my ticket until recently. I find all this bickering about license class rather foolish. With the exception of a few idiots I have gotten along very well with the higher license class operators I have contact with on 2 meters.i am having a hard time learning cw but not having the ability to do code dosent make me a bad Ham operator. If the code becomes the one roadblock from gaining hf privliges then so be it. I am having fun on VHF and that is all that matters.

AC7UX

09-07-2002, 03:32 PM

Now there is a no-code tech with a good atitude. you will go far KB1HVS. good luck on learning the code, it isn't that hard and I will be looking forward to working you sometime in the future.

K2PG

09-08-2002, 04:08 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 18 2002,23<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...personally, I have no plans of upgrading my license, because I do not wish to associate with that lot, even if it's just by holding an extra class license.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually, you would be better off on the HF bands. The repeater clique groups turned me off 25 years ago and I still avoid repeaters like the plague. Here in New Jersey, some of the repeater cliques can be quite obnoxious. A co-worker asked me about amateur radio and the no-code Technician Class license. I strongly advised him to learn the code and get on HF, as the repeaters in his area are great for listening to a clique of old men talking about their medical problems. I did tell him about the SSB activity on 6 and 2, but mentioned that he would make far more contacts on HF. Although I enjoy VHF, I usually stick to SSB on 6 and 2 meters. If I work FM, I try to do it on simplex.

The best advice regarding jargon is, don't use any kind of jargon on the air at all. Plain language works fine. Q signals are fine on CW, as they save time and transcend language barriers. But they sound foolish on phone, as does CB lingo.

KD5QFL

09-08-2002, 07:14 AM

Right after I got my radio(Radio Shack HTX-252), I got on the only repeater that I knew of in my area. In a week, I made 4 contacts the first one was a real nice guy, only thing is the other 3 contacts was people saying that the repeater was club use and to get off of it. All I did was give my callsign.
So I just decided to try simplex on 146.52, found some great guys there. I, also, bought a repeater directory and that helped a lot. Found a bunch of great guys on simplex and 2 other local repeater clubs.
Found out, if having problems on one repeater try and find another repeater, or try simplex.

KD5QFL, Will