Convicted killer fears his last moments

[kg4kww]

Convicted killer fears his last moments
Will this be his argument for saying that waiting to be fried is cruel and unusual punishment??

Full Story (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/02/lethal.injection/index.html)

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ May 04 2007,22:22)]Convicted killer fears his last moments
Will this be his argument for saying that waiting to be fried is cruel and unusual punishment??
Probably.

This trash killed a police officer during a botched armed robbery. #Pardon me all to hell if I can't get up any sympathy for the scumbag just because he might be uncomfortable during his last few moments.

I'm willing to bet that the police officer he shot was pretty damned uncomfortable during his last few moments.

[kf6rdn]

Why is killing a policeman considered worse then killing an average Joe/Jane?
I never got that.

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ May 04 2007,00:54)]Why is killing a policeman considered worse then killing an average Joe/Jane?
I never got that.
Thank you.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,22:42)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ May 04 2007,22:22)]Convicted killer fears his last moments
Will this be his argument for saying that waiting to be fried is cruel and unusual punishment??
Probably.

This trash killed a police officer during a botched armed robbery. #Pardon me all to hell if I can't get up any sympathy for the scumbag just because he might be uncomfortable during his last few moments.

I'm willing to bet that the police officer he shot was pretty damned uncomfortable during his last few moments.
Let's say , just for arguments sake, shortly after he were executed it was discovered that he didn't kill a policeman ? How would you feel about the execution then ?

What makes me wonder is, the USA is one of the few industrialized western nations that has a death penalty. Many countries don't. Yet they do have some crime and murder. How do they survive without a death penalty ? How do they reconcile without one ? How do we reconcile if and when we kill an innocent person ? Why is a death penalty so nessesary here, even if it means sometimes killing the innocent, but it is not so nessesary elsewhere ?

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,23:08)]Let's say , just for arguments sake, shortly after he were executed it was discovered that he didn't kill a policeman ? How would you feel about the execution then ?
One of your typical strawman arguments. #Let's confine the discussion to the instant case and spare us the hypotheticals.

This scumbag murdered someone during the commission of an armed robbery. #From what I have read there is no doubt that he did it. #This is not the same as, say, a convicted rapist who is eventually exonerated by DNA evidence. #In this case there was sufficient direct evidence that led to his conviction.

The only argument here is whether or not lethal injection is "cruel and unusual." #Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,01:39)]Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 04 2007,23:42)]Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?
Yes, I would.

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,01:46)]Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 04 2007,23:42)]Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?
Yes, I would.
Good, so would I.

[KI4ITV]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,18:08)]Why is a death penalty so nessesary here, even if it means sometimes killing the innocent, but it is not so nessesary elsewhere ?
Because, we need the prison space for the cashcow called the "War On Drugs".


Basically, our law and the judicial system executing it needs some serious scrutiny applied to it.

[N7RJD]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ May 04 2007,15:22)]Will this be his argument for saying that waiting to be fried is cruel and unusual punishment??
If this is his argument I would have to agree. There is little doubt that waiting to be fried would be cruel and unusual punishment. Therefore I say stop waiting and get the job done.

[KD6NIG]

Makes me kind of wish that executions would be biblical. You know, an eye for an eye.

If this guy shot a cop (or whoever) and cop died, then his execution should be a shot, from the same gun, to the exact same place.

Though he probably wouldn't die EXACTLY like his victim did, maybe he would at least understand what he did was wrong before he faded out.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Islamic countries have "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth".
Death is almost instant and takes no expensive equipment.
If pain is felt, it is so brief that it is a non-issue.
And, for what it is worth, the system in place in Texas is based on that of 5 Islamic countries, right down to the exact formula.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,23:39)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,23:08)]Let's say , just for arguments sake, shortly after he were executed it was discovered that he didn't kill a policeman ? How would you feel about the execution then ?
One of your typical strawman arguments. #Let's confine the discussion to the instant case and spare us the hypotheticals.

This scumbag murdered someone during the commission of an armed robbery. #From what I have read there is no doubt that he did it. #This is not the same as, say, a convicted rapist who is eventually exonerated by DNA evidence. #In this case there was sufficient direct evidence that led to his conviction.

The only argument here is whether or not lethal injection is "cruel and unusual." #Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
You read that there is no doubt that he did it ? I also read there was "no doubt" that some guy on death row killed someone and guess what ? It was discovered that he didn't.

So, if this piece of refuse did do this killing why are you so anxious to give him an easy way out ? Wouldn't it make more of a punishment to keep him alive and locked up as long as possible so he has to deal with the daily torment of being locked up along with the constant reminder of what he did and why he will never have freedom till the day he dies ?
Will giving him the death sentence reduce the number of muders in that state ? Does a death sentence really prevent similar crimes ? Is death the ultimate revenge ? How do you make sure you don't kill an innocent person ? When the state does kill an innocent person then isn't the state committing the same crime and then doesn't that make the state refuse ? How do other countries and states survive without a death sentence ? Is lethal injection as painful as some claim ? If it is then why not use some drugs that put the person to sleep and then just give a lethal dose ?

[WS2L]

I hope that he fears his last moments 100 times more than his victim. Boo Hoo

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ May 05 2007,07:38)]Makes me kind of wish that executions would be biblical. #You know, an eye for an eye.

If this guy shot a cop (or whoever) and cop died, then his execution should be a shot, from the same gun, to the exact same place.

Though he probably wouldn't die EXACTLY like his victim did, maybe he would at least understand what he did was wrong before he faded out.
If I wanted to get even with someone or punish someone for killing someone that last thing I would do with them is execute them.. What kind of penalty is that ?

[N5NPO]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,09:06)]Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,23:39)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,23:08)]Let's say , just for arguments sake, shortly after he were executed it was discovered that he didn't kill a policeman ? How would you feel about the execution then ?
One of your typical strawman arguments. #Let's confine the discussion to the instant case and spare us the hypotheticals.

This scumbag murdered someone during the commission of an armed robbery. #From what I have read there is no doubt that he did it. #This is not the same as, say, a convicted rapist who is eventually exonerated by DNA evidence. #In this case there was sufficient direct evidence that led to his conviction.

The only argument here is whether or not lethal injection is "cruel and unusual." #Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
You read that there is no doubt that he did it ? I also read there was "no doubt" that some guy on death row killed someone and guess what ? It was discovered that he didn't.

So, if this piece of refuse did do this killing why are you so anxious to give him an easy way out ? Wouldn't it make more of a punishment to keep him alive and locked up as long as possible so he has to deal with the daily torment of being locked up along with the constant reminder of what he did and why he will never have freedom till the day he dies ?
Will giving him the death sentence reduce the number of muders in that state ? Does a death sentence really prevent similar crimes ? Is death #the ultimate revenge ? How do you make sure you don't kill an innocent person ? When the state does kill an innocent person then isn't the state committing the same crime and then doesn't that make the state refuse ? How do other countries and states survive without a death sentence ? Is lethal injection as painful as some claim ? If it is then why not use some drugs that put the person to sleep and then just give a lethal dose ?
Something to consider....
If capital punishment is "the easy way out" and life inprisonment is a harsher punishment, then can we say that since some people say that capital punishment is cruel and unusual, then wouldn't the same be said for life inprisonment?

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ May 05 2007,09:15)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,09:06)]Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,23:39)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,23:08)]Let's say , just for arguments sake, shortly after he were executed it was discovered that he didn't kill a policeman ? How would you feel about the execution then ?
One of your typical strawman arguments. #Let's confine the discussion to the instant case and spare us the hypotheticals.

This scumbag murdered someone during the commission of an armed robbery. #From what I have read there is no doubt that he did it. #This is not the same as, say, a convicted rapist who is eventually exonerated by DNA evidence. #In this case there was sufficient direct evidence that led to his conviction.

The only argument here is whether or not lethal injection is "cruel and unusual." #Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
You read that there is no doubt that he did it ? I also read there was "no doubt" that some guy on death row killed someone and guess what ? It was discovered that he didn't.

So, if this piece of refuse did do this killing why are you so anxious to give him an easy way out ? Wouldn't it make more of a punishment to keep him alive and locked up as long as possible so he has to deal with the daily torment of being locked up along with the constant reminder of what he did and why he will never have freedom till the day he dies ?
Will giving him the death sentence reduce the number of muders in that state ? Does a death sentence really prevent similar crimes ? Is death #the ultimate revenge ? How do you make sure you don't kill an innocent person ? When the state does kill an innocent person then isn't the state committing the same crime and then doesn't that make the state refuse ? How do other countries and states survive without a death sentence ? Is lethal injection as painful as some claim ? If it is then why not use some drugs that put the person to sleep and then just give a lethal dose ?
Something to consider....
If capital punishment is "the easy way out" and life inprisonment is a harsher punishment, then can we say that since some people say that capital punishment is cruel and unusual, then wouldn't the same be said for life inprisonment?
There are people who feel nobody should ever be locked in a jail cell ever. There are people who feel forgiveness is the best and only noble route. And there are some who will say life imprisonment is worst than the death sentence.

I am saying, if punishment is the goal then why is the death penalty a better punishment than life in prison ? I would like to know the person is kept alive as long as possible and must remain enclosed in captivity and having to think every day why they are in captivity till the day they die naturally. To me that is a more painful punishment than the death sentence. And my goal is to make killers feel pain. I want them to suffer. I think execution is too good for the low life scum. We can even do things to make their time in jail as miserable and depressing as possible.

I also think that the death penalty runs the risk of killing the innocent. At least with life imprisonment we can let them go if we find out they areinnocent. Okay, we may have made them suffer but at least we can give them their freedom. Once we execute em it's all over jack.

[WF7A]

With all this pumishment talk it's time to watch The Outer Limits episode, "The Zanti Misfits", again.

The death penalty is meted out for two reasons: to punish the guilty in an "eye-for-an-eye" justice system (based on Christian doctrine), and as a deterrent to others to not commit such base acts else they'd pay with their own lives; it's our strong, natural instinct to want to live so the theory goes that if we watch somebody else die for committing a (capital) crime, we won't do what that person did to merit death else the same fate would await for us.

Unfortunately, neither system works 100%--errors are made in punishing innocent parties (a very small percentage at that), and as a deterrent, it isn't effective since people are still killing each other. :S

Another element with this kind of justice is, how do you compensate the victim's family for their loss? Prisoners complain about "cruel and inhuman punishment", yet their victims--and their families--suffered a "cruel and inhuman" loss.

So, what's a fair punishment and means of compensation? I don't think there is one other than the death penalty; living the rest of your life in prison where you have three meals a day, a roof over your head, cable TV and other forms of recreation isn't my definition of a punishment. True, it won't bring back the dead, but at least they'll rest easier.

...or we could lock the prisoners in a cell with nothing but Joan Baez records to listen to all day long. Now that is a deterrent!

[kg4kww]

If you murder in cold blood then you should get fried. All this appeal crap is for the birds.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ May 05 2007,19:07)]If you murder in cold bllod then you should get fried. All this appeal crap is for the birds.
How can you be sure if a person murders in cold blood if you don't allow for appeals and court proceedings ? All that swift and sure executions will ensure is that lots and lots of innocent people are murdered by the state. It will ensure that actual murderers get off easy rather than receiving real punishment. It's nice and easy to talk about what should be when you're at home behind a keypad. But when it's happening to you or someone you know then it's different.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (WF7A @ May 05 2007,10:20)]With all this pumishment talk it's time to watch The Outer Limits episode, "The Zanti Misfits", again.

The death penalty is meted out for two reasons: to punish the guilty in an "eye-for-an-eye" justice system (based on Christian doctrine), and as a deterrent to others to not commit such base acts else they'd pay with their own lives; it's our strong, natural instinct to want to live so the theory goes that if we watch somebody else die for committing a (capital) crime, we won't do what that person did to merit death else the same fate would await for us.

Unfortunately, neither system works 100%--errors are made in punishing innocent parties (a very small percentage at that), and as a deterrent, it isn't effective since people are still killing each other. :S

Another element with this kind of justice is, how do you compensate the victim's family for their loss? Prisoners complain about "cruel and inhuman punishment", yet their victims--and their families--suffered a "cruel and inhuman" loss.

So, what's a fair punishment and means of compensation? I don't think there is one other than the death penalty; living the rest of your life in prison where you have three meals a day, a roof over your head, cable TV and other forms of recreation isn't my definition of a punishment. True, it won't bring back the dead, but at least they'll rest easier.

...or we could lock the prisoners in a cell with nothing but Joan Baez records to listen to all day long. Now that is a deterrent!
So, you feel it is acceptable to kill innocent people ? That's okay because the odds that it will ever be you or someone you know are small enough to allow for it. So then the death openalty is the best solution. But if the odds were greater, say 50:50 would you agree the death penalty is the best solution ? But the odds are not 50:50 so it's okay for someone else to sweat it out.


Then, how do other countries manage without the death penalty ?

[NC5P]

It's really all about who the victim was and who the offender is. Someone shoots or runs over a cop and the mayor will call the DA and demand capital punishment. That cop was out serving the mayor so it's just like assailing the mayor himself. Without any political pressure for it the DA will not go seek it. It actually costs more to execute than just warehouse them the rest of their lives. That doesn't make sense to some but you have to figure in all the appeals and the legal bills mount, mostly paid by taxpayers. A figure of $3M is often qouted, but I'm sure it varies a lot from place to place. Much of this money comes out of the DA's budget and they are very short most of the time.

[WF7A]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,11:15)]So, you feel it is acceptable to kill innocent people ? That's okay because the odds that it will ever be you or someone you know are small enough to allow for it. So then the death openalty is the best solution. But if the odds were greater, say 50:50 would you agree the death penalty is the best solution ? But the odds are not 50:50 so it's okay for someone else to sweat it out.


Then, how do other countries manage without the death penalty ?
No, I'm saying it's okay to execute guilty people. :P

As a broad, sweeping, generalization, other countries' prisons are genuine hell-holes compared to ours; it's there that prisoners, living out life terms, suffer genuine punishment.

[KC0VWU]

Would Jesus push the button that sends the poison through his veins?

[K3XR]

Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 04 2007,23:42)]Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,01:39)]Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?
A police officer, in the performance of his duties, represents the people, an attack or killing of a police officer is an attack on all people. #The janitor at McDonalds, represents McDonalds. #Next time you house is being broken into, call McDonalds, maybe the janitor can save your #butt.

[W5IEI]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ May 06 2007,18:38)]Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 04 2007,23:42)]Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,01:39)]Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?
A police officer, in the performance of his duties, represents the people, an attack or killing of a police officer is an attack on all people. The janitor at McDonalds, represents McDonalds. Next time you house is being broken into, call McDonalds, maybe the janitor can save your butt.
He who depends on the cops when the perp is crashing through your door is a fool.

I'm pretty sure I can bring my 44 to bear long before any cop gets out of the coffee shop.

[kg4kww]

Yep and your 44 will do more damage than a 9mm.

Come to think of it so will a 357mag.

Will the ACLU try to save this trash???

Will local hams protest??

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ May 05 2007,20:38)]A police officer, in the performance of his duties, represents the people, an attack or killing of a police officer is an attack on all people.
This is perhaps the most ridiculous statement ever to appear on QRZ.com. Congratulations.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 05 2007,23:25)]Would Jesus push the button that sends the poison through his veins?
According to what I learned about Jesus...no. Then again according to religious legend jesus was himself a recipient of the death sentence.

From a conservative religious standpoint it don't give a darned what Jesus would do. Kill first and ask questions later.

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (W5IEI @ May 07 2007,03:25)]Quote[/b] (K3XR @ May 06 2007,18:38)]Quote[/b] (KC0VWU @ May 04 2007,23:42)]Quote[/b] (K5FH @ May 04 2007,01:39)]Whether you think it is or not doesn't change the fact that a police officer is dead because of this piece of human refuse.
Why does the fact that he was a cop matter? Would you feel the same way if he was a janitor at the local McDonald's?
A police officer, in the performance of his duties, represents the people, an attack or killing of a police officer is an attack on all people. The janitor at McDonalds, represents McDonalds. Next time you house is being broken into, call McDonalds, maybe the janitor can save your butt.
He who depends on the cops when the perp is crashing through your door is a fool.

I'm pretty sure I can bring my 44 to bear long before any cop gets out of the coffee shop.
Exactly!

Not only that, cops "signed on" knowing people might be shooting at them.

I'm sure mcdonald's janitor does not expect to be shot at.

The cook however... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Yes, they (cops) do a hard job, usually, but around here they also suck. I had a break in, I gave them a suspect, (an aquaintance of my daughters) his PHONE number, they got finger prints, I pointed out to the finger print tech to note the prints that were INSIDE of a broken double paned glass.

This was 9 months ago, detective just called last week with "do I have contact information on for "Gabriel".

You mean besides the phone number, cousins address and the fingerprints you all lifted 9 months back?

Incidentally an illegal.

[kg4kww]

Well the news is saying this guy was fried last night.

[nx6d]

Workman Doubt (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/02/workman.sidebar/index.html)

I think there was enough doubt on this case to warrant a stay of execution.

The problem is some people "knee-jerk" too quickly and assume the guy is guilty and the cops are always right. Anybody with a brain can see that the police and prosecutors aren't always on the up and up.

Here's some examples (from Texas)
Ernest Willis
Anthony Graves
Randal Adams

All people that were wrongly sent to death row and almost executed for crimes they didn't commit. That doesn't count Cameron Willingham, who was executed for a crime he didn't commit.

The death penalty is just plain wrong for a variety of reasons.

You bloodthirsty types need to get real and think for a change.

Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA

[W4MAJ]

Here's my dumb question of the day. A lot of Bible-thumpers want the 10 Commandments posted in every state and federal building. In my never humble opinion, I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the same historical document these folks want posted says quite clearly "Thou Shalt not kill."

I'm confused. Folks want everyone to adhere to the 10 Commandments, but are selective about which ones they want to follow themselves.

Oh, crap. I think I'm turning into liberal.

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (W4MAJ @ May 09 2007,08:36)]Here's my dumb question of the day. A lot of Bible-thumpers want the 10 Commandments posted in every state and federal building. In my never humble opinion, I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the same historical document these folks want posted says quite clearly "Thou Shalt not kill."

I'm confused. Folks want everyone to adhere to the 10 Commandments, but are selective about which ones they want to follow themselves.

Oh, crap. I think I'm turning into liberal.
What makes it even funnier is...thats not all the commandments. The whole bloody (literaly) book of Leviticus and its associated Laws still apply. No one relieved you all of its laws and punishments. So dont forget to stone your backsassing kids and I think if I am not mistaken, your wife has to go sleep out in the yard during "that time"

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (W4MAJ @ May 09 2007,07:36)]
Quote[/b] ]Oh, crap. I think I'm turning into liberal.

No, you're showing the ability to think. Good for you.

Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA

[W4MAJ]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ May 09 2007,10:42)]
Quote[/b] ]Oh, crap. I think I'm turning into a liberal.

No, you're showing the ability to think. Good for you.

Dave NX6D
Tulelake, CA
Is that why my head hurts?

[w3bny]

That or its a "toomah"

[K0RGR]

XR is pretty close with his description of why killing a cop is different. The cop is a public servant. Anyone depraved enough to kill a public servant acting in the line of duty is assumed to be especially heinous, because they have no respect for society.

I am opposed to the death penalty except in special circumstances. I also think we go too far in avoiding 'cruel and unusual' punishments. People who murder children should be slowly roasted over an open fire and fed to the dogs. I have similar feelings for those who murder defenseless women. I'm not sure that killing a cop in a shootout qualifies, but probably so.

[ac4ut]

To answer the biblical question,it is my understanding that the commandment translated as close as possible states "Thou shalt not murder".
Is execution murder? Surely I am not qualified to answer.
I personally would like to see convicted offenders spend their sentence working to repay the victims or family survivors.
As far as eliminating needless death I spend my effort on safety issues and try and help solve needless accidental deaths that occur at a much more prolific rate than execution deaths.
So far I have accomplished to get two resolutions passed into state law on safety issues and I am not done as I have some further issues and ideas.
Someone else can hold candlelight vigile at executions. It ain't my thing!

[k4idx]

I'm all for life in prison, but as much as he fears his last moments, just imagine being the guy who flips the switch on the electric chair or puts the needle in his veins before the injection. How must they feel when they're living their last moments reflecting on the amount of lives they ended in the name of the law or a job. I don't know about you guys, but you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. I guess it's like veteran's who were forced to kill while in war (thank you to all of our veterans, I respect you and your service and will always do so). God forgives, but wouldn't life in an 8x10 cell suffice? Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a lefty and NOT a conservative either, but this is the complex way I view it!

[W1RKW]

Screw the death penalty. Capitalize on the situation. Pay per view. Throw the scumbags to the lions so to speak. Put them in a ring and have a WWF smack down, boxer, or kick boxer beat the urine out of them until they're unconscious all with in the confines of a cage then throw them in the slammer to heal. Repeat the process a few more times to drive home the point then let them rot in jail for a few years. If the experts think they reformed let them back into society. Nothing like a good spanking to set someone straight.

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 08 2007,11:13)]Anyone depraved enough to kill a public servant acting in the line of duty is assumed to be especially heinous, because they have no respect for society.
Society or authority?

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,16:31)]At least with life imprisonment we can let them go if we find out they are innocent. Okay, we may have made them suffer but at least we can give them their freedom.
Is that all, just offer an official apology and let them go?

If it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a person has been wrongly convicted, shouldn't they be generously compensated monetarily for damages as well, and the state do everything in its power to assist them in getting their lives back together, including counselling, job training and a decent place to live until they get back on their feet? No way they can ever get back that part of their life that was stolen from them, but they should be offered something in recompense.