Young Kurd Girl Stoned To Death-Loved Sunni Boy

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] ]A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life.

Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.

This Democracy that we've brought to them manifests itself this way? Is this the way the 'Iraqi Security Force' plans to deal with their countries future? Is this why so many Americans have died in Iraq?

Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

* LINK * (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811)

[n2ize]

I'm surprised, no Link n Run for this story...

This is religious extremism at it's best. Maybe it the acceptable level of violence that Bush was talking about the other day. Unfortunately, thanks to the Bush admin this is the kind of extremism that is growing in iraq. it is also why we should get the heck out of there and let these superstitious imbeciles fight it out with each other.

[K5KSB]

It has

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C270111%2C00.html

and this is why we are there but you cannot change a generation over night,
and Liberals think it is bad in the U.S.

Your spoiled.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,01:19)]It has

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C270111%2C00.html

and this is why we are there but you cannot change a generation over night,
and Liberals think it is bad in the U.S.

Your spoiled.
Nice twist. It's supposed to be better there, not worse here. Why do you think it should be worse here? As a Liberal, I have never said it is worse here than in Iraq. That IS what the thread is about.

Please, think then try to make at least a small amount of sense rather than trying to fit a square talking point into an honest discussion.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[k6bbc]

Makes me feel all warm a fuzzy inside to know we have spent 1/2 trillion dollars bringing our civilization to Iraq.

bbc

[kg4kww]

This is sick. The bastards that did this should be stoned.

I'm sure this girl is in heaven and much better off.

[n2ize]

Maybe this is what Bush meant by "bringing democracy to iraq" ?

[k6bbc]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ May 04 2007,23:05)]This is sick. The bastards that did this should be stoned.

I'm sure this girl is in heaven and much better off.
You're sure. She was not Christian so isn't it straight to Hell for her?

bbc

[k4kyv]

here you see how she is murdered
http://www.zshare.net/download/2-3gp-6um.html

[KC0VWU]

Mission accomplished.

[KC0VWU]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ May 04 2007,01:22)]here you see how she is murdered
http://www.zshare.net/download/2-3gp-6um.html
Filthy savages.

[K5KSB]

Quote[/b] ]Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

That was a point!!

Quote[/b] ]Nice twist. It's supposed to be better there, not worse here. Why do you think it should be worse here? As a Liberal, I have never said it is worse here than in Iraq. That IS what the thread is about.

I didn't say it was worse here, but if you think "which Liberals are not good at" that pulling out of Iraq would make it better there and here you are really blind.
I guess if we pulled all of our people back from where ever they are in the world then you probably think the world as a whole would be better. If you think that then you are part of the problem. It was ok with everyone on both sides of the aisle to go after terrorist after 9/11 and everyone was told this would not be quick. Now that the Dem's want control they spin this as "we were lied to" they had the same info as the rest of them had.

Grow some backbone and let the military finish the job. Get politics out and the media out. They don't get paid to do the kind of work it will take to finish this.

You people who think that everything will be ok if we get out make me sick!

You want to do feel good crap like give more money to the U.N. so they can go in and help these countries.

What a bunch of c$#p that is. Why don't we just go ahead and give them a few Nukes so we can help them with their goal, wipe out the U.S. and Israel and all other non-Muslims around the world.

Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.

[K5KSB]

Sorry if I seem overly sensitive but I have a son in the Navy and he feels we are doing good and I trust his judgment.
As the most powerful nation in the world we should be trying to help all have real freedom. It will take a very long time for a country like Iraq to be totally free, the people have no concept of what it is like to be really free. Look at Saudi Arabia, they still treat their women like dirt and they are considered the most free Arab nation there is. You can't get a visa to go just visit their country, you can only go if you are working.

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,07:21)]As the most powerful nation in the world we should be trying to help all have real freedom. It will take a very long time for a country like Iraq to be totally free, the people have no concept of what it is like to be really free. Look at Saudi Arabia, they still treat their women like dirt and they are considered the most free Arab nation there is.
Noblesse oblige.

I would prefer to live in a less powerful nation, where I wouldn't be taxed to death to pay for policing the rest of the world, but see more of my tax money used to benefit my own countrymen, and the rest of the world share more of the burden.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)][QUOTE=Quote ]Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

That was a point!!

Quote[/b] ]Nice twist. It's supposed to be better there, not worse here. Why do you think it should be worse here? As a Liberal, I have never said it is worse here than in Iraq. That IS what the thread is about.

I didn't say it was worse here, but if you think "which Liberals are not good at" that pulling out of Iraq would make it better there and here you are really blind.
I guess if we pulled all of our people back from where ever they are in the world then you probably think the world as a whole would be better. If you think that then you are part of the problem. It was ok with everyone on both sides of the aisle to go after terrorist after 9/11 and everyone was told this would not be quick. Now that the Dem's want control they spin this as "we were lied to" they had the same info as the rest of them had.

More talking points.

A) who are you quoting when you type "which Liberals are not good at"? I didn't write that, so who are you using to set up that point. It wasn't me.

B) Iraq had and has NOTHING to do with 9/11. Bush has said so. Why does the right always jump to this completely disproven point right off the bat when BUSH has already said that 9/11 has NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ??

c) Congress had the 'facts'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif What 'facts' do you mean? WMDs?? 9/11?? Neither of those were or are facts. Congress and America was LIED to. Lies are NOT facts.

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)]Grow some backbone and let the military finish the job. Get politics out and the media out. They don't get paid to do the kind of work it will take to finish this.

You people who think that everything will be ok if we get out make me sick!

You want to do feel good crap like give more money to the U.N. so they can go in and help these countries.

What a bunch of c$#p that is. Why don't we just go ahead and give them a few Nukes so we can help them with their goal, wipe out the U.S. and Israel and all other non-Muslims around the world.

Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.

You people who think it's okay to lie to the American people and the world and continue to do so to this day make everybody else sick. I'm sorry to hear that one of your loved ones are involved in this quagmire. I have personally been affected by the real 9/11 and yet, I feel that to waste our kids lives in a war that has no purpose, that America, Iraq and the World wants finished, is madness. We're trying to get them home and out of harms way. There's a civil war over there and our kids are in the middle.

As far as stonings here in the US, I think that is way too much wild hyperbole. OTOH, this is a direct example of how Democracy is NOT working there and how American lives are being wasted for nothing. How long before they learn? A generation? Two? Three? At 20 years a generation, that's a long time. Do you teach them in school? How? Their religion will not let them learn that.

BTW, when do you think our great influx of ex-pariate Russians and Arabs arrived on our shores? During the '80s. I remember asking them why they came over and almost to a person they said, 'your president invited us.' That's a Reagan legacy you rarely hear about.

So much for the good old days.

[K5KSB]

Quote[/b] ]I would prefer to live in a less powerful nation, where I wouldn't be taxed to death to pay for policing the rest of the world, but see more of my tax money used to benefit my own countrymen, and the rest of the world share more of the burden.

I agree.

[K5KSB]

Quote[/b] ]c) Congress had the 'facts' What 'facts' do you mean? WMDs?? 9/11?? Neither of those were or are facts. Congress and America was LIED to. Lies are NOT facts.

I said info, there is a difference.

[K2WH]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 04 2007,17:40)]Quote[/b] ]A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life. #

Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.

This Democracy that we've brought to them manifests itself this way? #Is this the way the 'Iraqi Security Force' plans to deal with their countries future? #Is this why so many Americans have died in Iraq?

Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

* LINK * (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811)
This is exactly why we are in Iraq, to stop such atrocious behaviour. #However, NH's thinking leans towards this is the fault of the USA. #His thinking, we are there to encourage and promote this type of behavior. And another thing, as for media coverage, its on FOX, its in the newspapers also.

K2WH

[WA3WDR]

This thing about honor killings is not limited to Muslims. I first heard about it when some girl from India was burned to death because she married out of caste or out of the tribe or something. These are primitive tribal things, and we can't relate to them in the West.

Stonings... yes, this was one way a tribe might express disapproval, back in the day. And a whole lot of people are still back there.

[KI4ITV]

Quote[/b] (WA3WDR @ May 04 2007,23:03)]This thing about honor killings is not limited to Muslims. I first heard about it when some girl from India was burned to death because she married out of caste or out of the tribe or something. These are primitive tribal things, and we can't relate to them in the West.

Stonings... yes, this was one way a tribe might express disapproval, back in the day. And a whole lot of people are still back there.
Thanks for injecting the sanity.
Those who are relating this to the current political climate are only serving to dilute their own credibility and totally ignoring how frequently this kind of injustice actually takes place in the world.

[N5NPO]

So, let me get this straight, if the U.S. had not invaded, this sort of thing would have never happend. If the U.S. left the day before this happened, it would have never happened. If the U.S. left today, this sort of action would never happen again. It is ALL the U.S. military, Bush, Cheney and Haliburton's fault....

GOT IT!

[KI4ITV]

Reading the comments here would suggest that the name of this practice should be changed...
from "stoning" to "Bushwacking".

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ May 05 2007,04:01)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 04 2007,17:40)]Quote[/b] ]A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life. #

Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.

This Democracy that we've brought to them manifests itself this way? #Is this the way the 'Iraqi Security Force' plans to deal with their countries future? #Is this why so many Americans have died in Iraq?

Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

* LINK * (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811)
This is exactly why we are in Iraq, to stop such atrocious behaviour. #However, NH's thinking leans towards this is the fault of the USA. #His thinking, we are there to encourage and promote this type of behavior. #And another thing, as for media coverage, its on FOX, its in the newspapers also. #

K2WH
Really ? So you know more about why we are in Iraq than Bush ? Since we have been in Iraq the country has swung from a relatively secular nation to a theocracy. If you think for one solitary minute that the presence of young American boys and girls in Iraq is going to convince a group like the Kurds to give up their culture you're nuts. This type of thinking and these belifs are so deeply ingrained and a part of their culture and your not going to stop it any more than Sadaam Hussein was able to stop it. A bunch of American kids in khaki suits is certainly not going to change anything.

As barbaric as this may seem to us it is their code of ethics, it is what they do, and they don't give a hoot or a hollar what we think about it.

[WF7A]

Quote[/b] (WA3WDR @ May 04 2007,20:03)]This thing about honor killings is not limited to Muslims. I first heard about it when some girl from India was burned to death because she married out of caste or out of the tribe or something. These are primitive tribal things, and we can't relate to them in the West.

Stonings... yes, this was one way a tribe might express disapproval, back in the day. And a whole lot of people are still back there.
Good point.

On the opposite end of the spectrum a stoning can be funny as in the scene in the movie, "The Life of Brian."

...and for those who didn't take a literature class in school, here's a chilling, classic, short-story by Shirley Jackson about stoning:

The Lottery (http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lotry.html)

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,00:10)]You people who think that everything will be ok if we get out make me sick!
I didn't give a rat's ass in 2002 if the Iraqis had it good or bad, and I don't give a rat's ass now if they have it good or bad. Nor the Kuwaitis, for that matter. If they couldn't defend their borders, then tough cheese.

You make me sick, Mr. Do-Gooder-for-the-Planet. Invading Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter) as some sort of preventative for 9-11 makes about as much sense as invading New York to prevent another Timothy McVeigh would've.

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:21)]...As the most powerful nation in the world we should be trying to help all have real freedom. #It will take a very long time for a country like Iraq to be totally free, the people have no concept of what it is like to be really free. #Look at Saudi Arabia, they still treat their women like dirt and they are considered the most free Arab nation there is...
Sure. #How about starting with religious freedom? #You know, the freedom to stone someone for not believing as you do.
-gary

[k6bbc]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,00:21)]Sorry if I seem overly sensitive but I have a son in the Navy and he feels we are doing good and I trust his judgment.
As the most powerful nation in the world we should be trying to help all have real freedom. It will take a very long time for a country like Iraq to be totally free, the people have no concept of what it is like to be really free. Look at Saudi Arabia, they still treat their women like dirt and they are considered the most free Arab nation there is. You can't get a visa to go just visit their country, you can only go if you are working.
Silly American arrogance. My mama taught me to mind my own business – didn’t yours?

Scratch slightly below the surface and you will find a arrogant Christian fundamentalist here.

bbc

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 05 2007,03:46)]B) Iraq had and has NOTHING to do with 9/11. #Bush has said so. #Why does the right always jump to this completely disproven point right off the bat when BUSH has already said that 9/11 has NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ??
bush lies. #He spent a lot of time just before the war working to convince everyone that Iraq and Al Qaeda were related.

-gary

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)]...Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.
Give the Christian right a few more years in our country and that is exactly what we'll have.

-gary

[G0GQK]

My Friend, you have not brought American democracy to Iraq. Whatever the US government says or does, it will have no effect on Moslems . the US arrived as un-invited guests in Iraq, they did not ask you for help your government decided for whatever reason, still really unknown, to change the ways of these people.

Has not enough been seen with the beheadings of innocent men, the killing of thousands of Iraqi's by suicide bombers that there are many Moslems who are unaffected by this severe cruelty. They are not like Christians, they hate Christians, they also hate everyone else, Moslems, Jews, Sikhs. They hate everything except Mohammad and nothing will ever change them. End of story.

G0GQK

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (w0aew @ May 05 2007,10:53)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,00:10)]You people who think that everything will be ok if we get out make me sick!
I didn't give a rat's ass in 2002 if the Iraqis had it good or bad, and I don't give a rat's ass now if they have it good or bad. #Nor the Kuwaitis, for that matter. If they couldn't defend their borders, then tough cheese.

You make me sick, Mr. Do-Gooder-for-the-Planet. #Invading Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter) as some sort of preventative for 9-11 makes about as much sense as invading New York to prevent another Timothy McVeigh would've.
You are right. As much as I hate to hear about people being treated unjustly and/or stoned to death I also understand that it is not our job to bring our brand of freedom, justice and democracy to the world. We have but one obligation. To take care of our place here at home and toprotect our nations borders from those who want to cause direct harm to us. beyond that it is not our business what some crazy superstitious backwards tribal Kurds do thousands of miles away in some other soverign nation. Let the Iraqi's deal with the Kurds is their behavior violates their laws and their concept of freedom. Sending a bunch of young American kids to die in a war that was founded on lies is not going to change one thing over there. Nor is it going to convince a single Kurd not to do another stiupid disgraceful "honor killing". If they need changing let Iraq change them.

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,17:23)]Quote[/b] (w0aew @ May 05 2007,10:53)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,00:10)]You people who think that everything will be ok if we get out make me sick!
I didn't give a rat's ass in 2002 if the Iraqis had it good or bad, and I don't give a rat's ass now if they have it good or bad. #Nor the Kuwaitis, for that matter. If they couldn't defend their borders, then tough cheese.

You make me sick, Mr. Do-Gooder-for-the-Planet. #Invading Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter) as some sort of preventative for 9-11 makes about as much sense as invading New York to prevent another Timothy McVeigh would've.
You are right. As much as I hate to hear about people being treated unjustly and/or stoned to death I also understand that it is not our job to bring our brand of freedom, justice #and democracy to the world. We have but one obligation. To take care of our place here at home and toprotect our nations borders from those who want to cause direct harm to us. beyond that it is not our business what some crazy superstitious backwards tribal Kurds do thousands of miles away in some other soverign nation. Let the Iraqi's deal with the Kurds is their behavior violates their laws and their concept of freedom. Sending a bunch of young American kids to die in a war that was founded on lies is not going to change one thing over there. Nor is it going to convince a single Kurd not to do another stiupid disgraceful "honor killing". If they need changing let Iraq change them.
Geez, 'ize, you just don't get it, do you.

The world had just better start doing things the American way or it had better watch out!

Iraq didn't listen, and look at it! #The place is a shambles.

And, we will do that to any other country that decides to not kowtow to American Ideals, American Mores, American Christianity, and American Law and Justice.

The ONLY way to live is the American Way!!! #And don't you forget it!!!

-gary

[K5KSB]

I can see that there is no one here that gives a s**t about anyone but themselves.

What a bunch of arrogant a$$es.

Later.

[KD6NIG]

I think part of the issue is the fact that we went over there with this thought that not only were we going to free the Iraqi people, that we were going to convert them to our form of government.

The only way that would happen is for us to make it a US territory.

We freed them, even took our government and had them create a constitution. The only problem? Getting everyone to sing that tune. So far, it looks like they don't feel like playing our song, but sticking to the song they are used to listening to.

The religion, and the fact that much of their law is based off of it (how the decisions are made, etc, I won't get into, because I don't know) is how they governed themselves. Course, Saddam tossed some curveballs in there, but for the most part, "islamic" or whatever you want to call it, law has been the way they run things.

With this happening, people should realize something that should have been plainly obvious long ago. The iraqi people wanted to be free from the clutches of Saddam. Mission accomplished. However, thats all they wanted. They want to continue to live under the religious laws they are used to. They don't want to be "americanized" into our type of government. And they definetely don't want a seperation of church and state. They live by religion-and they aren't going to make that change.

We would have been better off accomplishing what they wanted in the first place. They wanted to be out from under the rule of Saddam. Done. At that point, we should have taken our bow, accepted their thanks, assisted them in forming a government as they would have wanted (ie, let THEM say how its going to work, and its likely to include entrenched religion, because thats what they are used to) and once said "biblical" or however you want to call the type of government they use was formed, hand it off to them, and let it go.

Sure, the likely result, perhaps, would be another dictator, or "supreme ruler". Maybe even one like Saddam.

But they would have been more likely to go along with this than the attempts to make them The Iraqi State of America. Our system works because we've been using it for how long, but that doesn't mean it will work for them. I think that was our major mistake.

What you saw here, though horrific in our eyes, in the eyes of the typical Iraqi, would be seen as a perfect execution of their law system. The bottom line is, they DON'T want to be like us. They don't want to use our system. They want to use the system that has been used, and would have been used had Saddam not ruled with an iron fist.

Trying to create our type of government won't work there. It won't mesh with their belief system. You can't control people with a governmental system that doesn't include that. Our system works here. It won't work over there. Period.

The sooner they understand this...the sooner this can be solved.

Under their system......this punishment is called for and was completed. Sure its cruel, inhuman, and downright plain disgusting. BUT TO THEM, ITS PERFECTLY NORMAL.

If we want them to march to our drum, take over. If you want them to be truely free, they have to be allowed to run things under whatever standards they view as "proper." Thats up to them, not us. We may not like it, but if we want things our way, we have to take over. Period. Thats not going to happen.

The only other solution is to let them form the government they want under their religion's rules-and let them run it as they want to and have ran it for years.

Until then we will have resistance. They don't want our government. They wanted freedom-to run their country the way they wanted to. Not how we want it to.

[K5KSB]

I agree with you KD6NIG.

[k4idx]

It is their culture. I don't agree with it, but it's no different than when we play God and sentence people to death. I have no data on the Iraqi court system, but I feel confident in saying that their court system certainly couldn't be less flawed than our own.

It is a shame though that cultures and religions adhere to the medieval laws and practices of times past. Ever wonder if we've reached the climax of human evolution and we're falling into a downward spiral now?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ May 05 2007,07:01)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 04 2007,17:40)]Quote[/b] ]A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life.

Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.

This Democracy that we've brought to them manifests itself this way? Is this the way the 'Iraqi Security Force' plans to deal with their countries future? Is this why so many Americans have died in Iraq?

Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

* LINK * (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811)
This is exactly why we are in Iraq, to stop such atrocious behaviour. However, NH's thinking leans towards this is the fault of the USA. His thinking, we are there to encourage and promote this type of behavior. And another thing, as for media coverage, its on FOX, its in the newspapers also.

K2WH
Wrong. My inclination is that we've spent more time at this useless war, almost 3,500 lives and a $500 Billion on something that has NOTHING to do with 9/11. We're told that we're bringing them Democracy by those who say that's why we're there. That the Iraqi's are all happy and enjoying real American Democracy and they're so d*mned grateful and all. All I'm saying is by the looks of things, that's not working either. As far as the troops? Well they just looked on. The longer we're there, the less Iraq will do for themselves.

Want to try for yet another reason why we're there? The "Democracy" one's not working.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ May 05 2007,20:26)]I think part of the issue is the fact that we went over there with this thought that not only were we going to free the Iraqi people, that we were going to convert them to our form of government.

The only way that would happen is for us to make it a US territory.

We freed them, even took our government and had them create a constitution. #The only problem? #Getting everyone to sing that tune. #So far, it looks like they don't feel like playing our song, but sticking to the song they are used to listening to.

The religion, and the fact that much of their law is based off of it (how the decisions are made, etc, I won't get into, because I don't know) is how they governed themselves. #Course, Saddam tossed some curveballs in there, but for the most part, "islamic" or whatever you want to call it, law has been the way they run things.

With this happening, people should realize something that should have been plainly obvious long ago. #The iraqi people wanted to be free from the clutches of Saddam. #Mission accomplished. #However, thats all they wanted. #They want to continue to live under the religious laws they are used to. #They don't want to be "americanized" into our type of government. #And they definetely don't want a seperation of church and state. #They live by religion-and they aren't going to make that change.

We would have been better off accomplishing what they wanted in the first place. #They wanted to be out from under the rule of Saddam. #Done. #At that point, we should have taken our bow, accepted their thanks, assisted them in forming a government as they would have wanted (ie, let THEM say how its going to work, and its likely to include entrenched religion, because thats what they are used to) and once said "biblical" or however you want to call the type of government they use was formed, hand it off to them, and let it go.

Sure, the likely result, perhaps, would be another dictator, or "supreme ruler". #Maybe even one like Saddam.

But they would have been more likely to go along with this than the attempts to make them The Iraqi State of America. #Our system works because we've been using it for how long, but that doesn't mean it will work for them. #I think that was our major mistake.

What you saw here, though horrific in our eyes, in the eyes of the typical Iraqi, would be seen as a perfect execution of their law system. #The bottom line is, they DON'T want to be like us. #They don't want to use our system. #They want to use the system that has been used, and would have been used had Saddam not ruled with an iron fist.

Trying to create our type of government won't work there. #It won't mesh with their belief system. #You can't control people with a governmental system that doesn't include that. #Our system works here. #It won't work over there. #Period.

The sooner they understand this...the sooner this can be solved. #

Under their system......this punishment is called for and was completed. #Sure its cruel, inhuman, and downright plain disgusting. #BUT TO THEM, ITS PERFECTLY NORMAL.

If we want them to march to our drum, take over. #If you want them to be truely free, they have to be allowed to run things under whatever standards they view as "proper." #Thats up to them, not us. #We may not like it, but if we want things our way, we have to take over. #Period. #Thats not going to happen.

The only other solution is to let them form the government they want under their religion's rules-and let them run it as they want to and have ran it for years.

Until then we will have resistance. #They don't want our government. #They wanted freedom-to run their country the way they wanted to. #Not how we want it to.
They don't want us over their imposing our way of life on them any more than we want someone over here telling us how to live.

Under sadaam the country was governed as a secular state. Some Iraqui's liked that, others wanted a theocracy. Since we've gone in there the place has shifted to more of a theocracy (just what we need). Of course there are some within our own country that would like to make the USA into a Christian theocracy. They have already taken steps in that direction. But anyways, there are so many conflicts between differennt theocratic factions and non-theocrats. They are just going to have to fight it out for themselves. We are not going to impose modern industrialized democracy over there on people who don't want it. They will simply reject it and defy it. The history of that region goes back much farther than our history here. many of those people are decendands of generations spanning way way back. They are set in their ways and customs and, strange as they may seem to us, we are not going to change them. We are not going to take a culture of peoplelike the Kurds and convince them our rules are right and they have to change to our way. Certainly a bunch of 18 year old Americans in uniform are not going to change them.

Sadaam is gone. Should we have gone in there to begin with ? I don't think so, But if we had any purpose there at any point we have served it and it's now over. Time to leave and let the Iraqi's sort things out. Unless of course the administration is not leveling and has other reasons for wanting to maintain military presence.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,20:04)]I can see that there is no one here that gives a s**t about anyone but themselves.

What a bunch of arrogant a$$es.

Later.
So, why don;t you travel over to iraq, go visit the Kurds, and explain to them why they should not do "honor killings". Tell them why their way is obsolete and old fashioned and they had better adopt your way of living. If they don;t listen tell them they had better change or else. Explain to them that if they won't change you will change them. See how far you get.

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ May 05 2007,04:01)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ May 04 2007,17:40)]Quote[/b] ]A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life.

Miss Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, was condemned to death as an "honour killing" by other men in her family and hardline religious leaders because of her relationship with the Sunni Muslim boy.

This Democracy that we've brought to them manifests itself this way? Is this the way the 'Iraqi Security Force' plans to deal with their countries future? Is this why so many Americans have died in Iraq?

Most of all, why hasn't this gotten ANY news coverage here?

* LINK * (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811)
This is exactly why we are in Iraq, to stop such atrocious behaviour. However, NH's thinking leans towards this is the fault of the USA. His thinking, we are there to encourage and promote this type of behavior. And another thing, as for media coverage, its on FOX, its in the newspapers also.

K2WH
Add another one to the list of why we're there. Why not add "we're in Iraq because they have good Mediterranean carry-out".

It's entirely disingenuous to say "we're there to prevent this barbaric behavior" and then be complicit to the atrocity of Darfur. Thousands of girls are dying and we won't do anything because our government is afraid to pressure the government in Sudan because they are our "ally in the war on terrorism". If we can't stand-up to stop what is happening there because we can't take our own heat, then we are the biggest bunch of sissies on the planet.

To say "we can't change them overnight" acknowledges what I have feared about this country; that we're the 21st century colonialist. And you would think we would have learned from our European cousins who pulled these stunts in the 19th and 20th centuries; you can't form colonies unless you brutally repress the people. Iraq isn't free under our power or our puppet regime, and we're not going to "change" the people unless we repress them; brutally. Who are we to "change" them? Why are we changing them?

This nonsense leads to nothing good.

[W1RKW]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,09:21)]As barbaric as this may seem to us it is their code of ethics, it is what they do, and they don't give a hoot or a hollar what we think about it.
This code of ethics or honor killing isn't over either. The boy is in hiding and once found chances are he'll be beheaded.

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] ]Thousands of girls are dying and we won't do anything because our government is afraid to pressure the government in Sudan because they are our "ally in the war on terrorism".
And we don't call this terrorism?
In reality, the Sudan is no more our ally against "terrorism" than Al Qaida. #But don't ask the bush propaganda machine!

-gary

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (KA8DKT @ May 04 2007,12:28)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)]...Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.
Give the Christian right a few more years in our country and that is exactly what we'll have.

-gary
No, most of the fundamentalist Christians I know have taken pretty strong stances against smoking pot and the like. However, if you had suggested that if most of the starched collar Christians were to fire up a fatty that everything would be alright, I would have agreed. And K5KSB, are you sure your daughter or grandaughter isn't getting stoned right now? I know that one of my two is not as she is sitting here laughing at this bloody stupid thread with me right now. The other I am quite sure isn't, but as she is a college graduate who lives 550 miles away from here I can only hope she still has the same value that she was brought up with.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,06:45)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,20:04)]I can see that there is no one here that gives a s**t about anyone but themselves.

What a bunch of arrogant a$$es.

Later.
So, why don;t you travel over to iraq, go visit the Kurds, and explain to them why they should not do "honor killings". Tell them why their way is obsolete and old fashioned and they had better adopt your way of living. If they don;t listen tell them they had better change or else. Explain to them that if they won't change you will change them. See how far you get.
HAH!!! Brilliant! Ya just gotta love how the self righteous dip sticks are so convinced that everyone globally has the same values and morals and that life really IS just like a Coke commercial. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony........".

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ May 06 2007,10:35)]Quote[/b] (KA8DKT @ May 04 2007,12:28)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)]...Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.
Give the Christian right a few more years in our country and that is exactly what we'll have.

-gary
No, most of the fundamentalist Christians I know have taken pretty strong stances against smoking pot and the like. However, if you had suggested that if most of the starched collar Christians were to fire up a fatty that everything would be alright, I would have agreed. And K5KSB, are you sure your daughter or grandaughter isn't getting stoned right now? I know that one of my two is not as she is sitting here laughing at this bloody stupid thread with me right now. The other I am quite sure isn't, but as she is a college graduate who lives 550 miles away from here I can only hope she still has the same value that she was brought up with.
What does smoking pot have to do with anything in this discussion. You live by whatever values you feel are right and you raise your family accordingly. Why is a person who smokes weed and less moral than someone who doesn't ? I couldn't give a hoot or a hollar for if someone wants to smoke weed that's there business. As long as he's not forcing it upon someone who doesn't want it. Same as someone forcing their religious values on someone else or trying to make their religion the law of the land.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ May 06 2007,10:40)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 05 2007,06:45)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,20:04)]I can see that there is no one here that gives a s**t about anyone but themselves.

What a bunch of arrogant a$$es.

Later.
So, why don;t you travel over to iraq, go visit the Kurds, and explain to them why they should not do "honor killings". Tell them why their way is obsolete and old fashioned and they had better adopt your way of living. If they don;t listen tell them they had better change or else. Explain to them that if they won't change you will change them. See how far you get.
HAH!!! Brilliant! Ya just gotta love how the self righteous dip sticks are so convinced that everyone globally has the same values and morals and that life really IS just like a Coke commercial. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony........".
It might be nice to teach them how to sing but they are going to sing their sone their way. Not the way we might think they should.

[k6bbc]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 06 2007,05:39)]Under sadaam the country was governed as a secular state.
Absolutely true. And what percentage of Americans are totally unaware of this – totally unaware that high-level members of Saddam’s government were Christian. Don’t believe it? Google it. How well do you think Christians are going to do under an Iraqi Islamic State? If Americans would get their mugs away from their TV reality shows and do some research on this war, they might just wake up a be upset.

Our current administration lied us into this murderous conflict and sold it using Jesus. Why are you not offended?

K6BBC

[KA8DKT]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ May 06 2007,13:35)]Quote[/b] (KA8DKT @ May 04 2007,12:28)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,03:10)]...Don't do anything now and in a few years it may be your daughter or granddaughter that you see getting stoned in this country.
Give the Christian right a few more years in our country and that is exactly what we'll have.

-gary
No, most of the fundamentalist Christians I know have taken pretty strong stances against smoking pot and the like. However, if you had suggested that if most of the starched collar Christians were to fire up a fatty that everything would be alright, I would have agreed. And K5KSB, are you sure your daughter or grandaughter isn't getting stoned right now? I know that one of my two is not as she is sitting here laughing at this bloody stupid thread with me right now. The other I am quite sure isn't, but as she is a college graduate who lives 550 miles away from here I can only hope she still has the same value that she was brought up with.
We are talking bibically stoned, as in having people throw stones at an accused person. #

I should have offfered more of the quote to give the proper context.

-gary

[w3bny]

Why should you all care. First a great majority of you want to Mk-53 the place and turn it into a glass factory and now "Oh how inhumane...we should help them....We need to send more troops..and Haliburton... blah blah blah" Would you all make up your minds!!! Do you want to kill them all or what!

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ May 05 2007,02:22)]here you see how she is murdered
http://www.zshare.net/download/2-3gp-6um.html
This has been going on in Islamic countries and other countries along with cutting off hands and beheadings as religious punishment for over 1000 years. It happens regularly around the world when the male members of a family decide a female has "dishonored" them. Wasn't it in India a year or two back that a man killed his married daughter and his two pre-teen daughters because the married daughter left her husband causing dishonor and his two pre-teen daughters to prevent them from causing dishonor by following in their sister's footsteps?

It was happening in Iraq under Hussein just not reported. The Iraq War did not contribute to this atrocity nor would it have been prevented if there was no invasion.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ May 05 2007,12:19)]Quote[/b] (K5KSB @ May 05 2007,00:21)]Sorry if I seem overly sensitive but I have a son in the Navy and he feels we are doing good and I trust his judgment.
As the most powerful nation in the world we should be trying to help all have real freedom. #It will take a very long time for a country like Iraq to be totally free, the people have no concept of what it is like to be really free. #Look at Saudi Arabia, they still treat their women like dirt and they are considered the most free Arab nation there is. #You can't get a visa to go just visit their country, you can only go if you are working.
Silly American arrogance. #My mama taught me to mind my own business – didn’t yours? #

Scratch slightly below the surface and you will find a arrogant Christian fundamentalist here.

bbc
Spoken like a true left wing liberal. By the way, as I had said before, your dream team in 2008 couldn't get elected dog catcher and pooper scooper.