If you wonder about the future of this country

[K7DMB]

Now the anti-war / anti-military / anti-Bush people will pick this apart, flame me, and discredit this story, but this is not for you, this is for the ones of us that "have been there and done that"

I received this from a father of a Marine Corps Soldier, I have not checked it out on "Snoops.com" I took it at face value.

This is not intended to validate or anything about this war, I spent 2 1/2 tours in Vietnam, I observed similar situations, I am sure the WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Kiwait, and Afghanistan veterans have seen simailar.

To me this shows our young men and women still have an understanding of patriotism and sacrifice. As did my generation, the generations before me, and the generations to come after me.

So don't try to turn this into political football, to fit your point of view, this has nothing to do with the war, it shows that America's Youth is still there for us.



If you wonder about the future of this country and its youth,

Wiesbaden, Germany
DSN- 337-6240
CIV- 0611 705 6240


First Sergeant
April 24th, 2007 by CJ

This is from a Marine First Sergeant serving in Iraq and about to come home:

I guess I kinda had an epiphany two days ago when I walked outside and saw some Marines gathered around a convoy of 4 vehicles. I recognized that these were my Marines from another "Battle Position" so I thought I would go see what they were up to. Because of the fact that they are 40 miles away, I don't get to see them often enough, so I always welcome "face time" with this platoon.

As I walk over, all I see are young Marines and a single Corporal. "Who is the convoy commander?" I asked, expecting to see a Senior Sergeant or Staff Sergeant appear from nowhere. "I am, First Sergeant", said Cpl Jansen. All of the Marines started to close in on me as if to see what they had done wrong that caused me to be looking for the convoy commander. So I asked Cpl Jansen how old he was and he replied "19, First Sergeant."

This just really hit home with me, so I decided to point out to all of them
the significance. "Wow, 19 years old and you take 17 Marines and head out across hostile foreign land. I bet that if you asked someone back home who was in charge of a convoy in Iraq, they would think it was a Lieutenant or Captain or Sgt. But here you are a 19 year old Corporal leading Marines into combat." (Keep in mind that 45 days ago Cpl Jansen was a Lance Corporal-before he was promoted to his present rank meritoriously for his actions in combat). So, as I walked away, I just kept thinking what other kids his age are doing in America. The level of responsibility he has is truly Awe-inspiring. Thirty minutes later, Cpl Jansen mounted u p his troops and headed right back out the gate and into harms way on his 90 minute convoy back to his base. What a difference eight months makes! This is just one example of how this deployment has changed lives and turned boys into men.

You know, a lot of people look down on our current generation. People are quick to point out that they play too much video games, question authority, talk back to their parents, whatever (I myself am guilty of saying these things). But I can assure you, that if you could see what I have seen here, you would stifle yourself. They represent everything America stands for and they are perfect ambassadors of our country. My company is about 75% under 21 years old. These young men have a perfect understanding of patriotism and sacrifice.

[kb2vxa]

Laurence, you just pointed out the difference between a Marine and the average twerp, DISCIPLINE. Ya ain't gonna git it from Nintendo, ya gotta GIT 'ER DONE!

[w5klb]

...

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K7DMB @ May 04 2007,07:21)]Now the anti-war / anti-military / anti-Bush people will pick this apart, flame me, and discredit this story, but this is not for you, this is for the ones of us that "have been there and done that"

I received this from a father of a Marine Corps Soldier, I have not checked it out on "Snoops.com" I took it at face value.

This is not intended to validate or anything about this war, I spent 2 1/2 tours in Vietnam, I observed similar situations, I am sure the WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Kiwait, and Afghanistan veterans have seen simailar.

To me this shows our young men and women still have an understanding of patriotism and sacrifice. As did my generation, the generations before me, and the generations to come after me.

So don't try to turn this into political football, to fit your point of view, this has nothing to do with the war, it shows that America's Youth is still there for us.



If you wonder about the future of this country and its youth,

Wiesbaden, Germany
DSN- 337-6240
CIV- 0611 705 6240


First Sergeant
April 24th, 2007 by CJ

This is from a Marine First Sergeant serving in Iraq and about to come home:

I guess I kinda had an epiphany two days ago when I walked outside and saw some Marines gathered around a convoy of 4 vehicles. I recognized that these were my Marines from another "Battle Position" so I thought I would go see what they were up to. Because of the fact that they are 40 miles away, I don't get to see them often enough, so I always welcome "face time" with this platoon.

As I walk over, all I see are young Marines and a single Corporal. #"Who is the convoy commander?" #I asked, expecting to see a Senior Sergeant or Staff Sergeant appear from nowhere. #"I am, First Sergeant", said Cpl Jansen. #All of the Marines started to close in on me as if to see what they had done wrong that caused me to be looking for the convoy commander. #So I asked Cpl Jansen how old he was and he replied "19, First Sergeant."

This just really hit home with me, so I decided to point out to all of them
the significance. #"Wow, 19 years old and you take 17 Marines and head out across hostile foreign land. # I bet that if you asked someone back home who was in charge of a convoy in Iraq, they would think it was a Lieutenant or Captain or Sgt. #But here you are a 19 year old Corporal leading Marines into combat." #(Keep in mind that 45 days ago Cpl Jansen was a Lance Corporal-before he was promoted to his present rank meritoriously for his actions in combat). #So, as I walked away, I just kept thinking what other kids his age are doing in America. The level of responsibility he has is truly Awe-inspiring. #Thirty minutes later, Cpl Jansen mounted u p his troops and headed right back out the gate and into harms way on his 90 minute convoy back to his base. #What a difference eight months makes! This is just one example of how this deployment has changed lives and turned boys into men.

You know, a lot of people look down on our current generation. #People are quick to point out that they play too much video games, question authority, talk back to their parents, whatever (I myself am guilty of saying these things). #But I can assure you, that if you could see what I have seen here, you would stifle yourself. They represent everything America stands for and they are perfect ambassadors of our country. My company is about 75% under 21 years old. These young men have a perfect understanding of patriotism and sacrifice.
What is "patriotic" about invading a soverign country starting a war which results in the deaths of hundereds of thousands of people who live in that country and who never lifted a finger against you, getting 3000+ of your own people killed, thousands more sick and wounded ? All it shows is an ability to follow the orders of a politician unconditionally. Real patriotism will come about when #we stop fighting corrupt wars and bring the military back to it's intended purpose. Defending America.

The real future of this country comes when young people become educated, learn to analyze things and think for themselves. At thatpoint we may once again be able to compete in the real world.

[n0ov]

B.S. Flag time. #

Say what you want about Bush and how we got into this war but do NOT put down the folks in uniform that are doing their duty.

If it was NOT for these folks you would not have the luxury of being a "tree hugger hippie"

Folks in uniform did not make policy, they are just stuck with the decisions of the elected officials putting them in harms way

Quote[/b] ]The real future of this country comes when young people become educated, learn to analyze things and think for themselves.
I think you have a very valid point here ---
Quote[/b] ]So, as I walked away, I just kept thinking what other kids his age are doing in America. The level of responsibility he has is truly Awe-inspiring.

that 19 year old is thinking for himself and leading troops!

[kl7aj]

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[K7DMB]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ May 04 2007,09:53)]What is "patriotic" about invading a soverign country starting a war which results in the deaths of hundereds of thousands of people who live in that country and who never lifted a finger against you, getting 3000+ of your own people killed, thousands more sick and wounded ? All it shows is an ability to follow the orders of a politician unconditionally. Real patriotism will come about when #we stop fighting corrupt wars and bring the military back to it's intended purpose. Defending America.

The real future of this country comes when young people become educated, learn to analyze things and think for themselves. At thatpoint we may once again be able to compete in the real world.
You know it is a shame when one has to put 5 paragraphs of disclaimers before a post. In an attempt to keep it from being highjacked for someone's personal agenda. And then it is still highjacked.

The point of my post was to bring to light that not all of the teenagers in today's America are Fat Assed Nintendo Playing Freaks. There are some that are selfless brave and yes patriotic enough to volunteer to serve our Country.
This post was about boys becoming men, and I am damn proud they are American men, and American boys willing to become men and serve their country, as I am too old.

If it was not for boys/men like these throughout our history, you would not have what you have today.

Please do not take away from these boys and men they are America's most valuable asset.

[K0RGR]

It's not the kids I'm worried about.

Even my sheltered and spoiled 20-year old amazes me at times with his drive, his fortitude, and his character.

I'm worred about what we're leaving them.

I'm afraid that their generation will be the first one that is truly worse off than their parents.

I do not fear that the kids will fail us. I fear that we have failed them.

We now live in a country that has lost most of it's manufacturing base. Without manufacturing jobs, our kids will end up in some kind of service position. Those jobs will be lower paying and less secure. Unfortunately, they won't all be college graduates. The difference between the upper class and the lower class will grow. The middle class as we know it will be a much smaller percentage of the population.

I hope when these kids come back from Iraq, in 10 or 15 years if Donald Rumsfeld was right, they can find a job.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (n0ov @ May 04 2007,10:58)]B.S. Flag time. #

Say what you want about Bush and how we got into this war but do NOT put down the folks in uniform that are doing their duty.

If it was NOT for these folks you would not have the luxury of being a "tree hugger hippie"

Folks in uniform did not make policy, they are just stuck with the decisions of the elected officials putting them in harms way

Quote[/b] ]The real future of this country comes when young people become educated, learn to analyze things and think for themselves.
I think you have a very valid point here ---
Quote[/b] ]So, as I walked away, I just kept thinking what other kids his age are doing in America. The level of responsibility he has is truly Awe-inspiring. #

that 19 year old is thinking for himself and leading troops!
Leading troops where ? Into a war where we don't belong to begin with ? How is that patriotic and how does that make a person any more of a "man" than a young person who is really learning to think for himself ? This has nothing to do with "putting down troops". Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes evil must be met with military force. Nor is the military or military duty sacred. it takes all kinds of people to make the country function, unfortunately military duty is part of it.


As long as we are willing to blindly march into corrupt wars started on the whim of a politician we will always have corrupt wars that have nothing to do with the defense of this nation or protecting freedom. If we really want to be patriotic and really show support for the troops then we should get them out of Iraq ASAP. Bring the troops back to the origional reason they signed up. To defend the constitution and the US.

[K7DMB]

OK I am asking the moderators to pull this thread, I knew better than to expect any kind of respect for the ones putting themselves in harms way.

I would like to ask one question: how in the hell do you expect other countries to respect the US when you do not even respect it, You have to respect your own country before anyone else will respect it.........


Moderators please pull this thread

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (K7DMB @ May 04 2007,12:29)]OK I am asking the moderators to pull this thread, #I knew better than to expect any kind of respect for the ones putting themselves in harms way.

I would like to ask one question: #how in the hell do you expect other countries to respect the US when you do not even respect it, You have to respect your own country before anyone else will respect it.........


Moderators please pull this thread
How do you expect other countries to respect us if we allow our soldiers to be sent into wars like iraq ? How is that respect for our soldiers ?I t we really care for our soldiers and the commitment they make we should be demanding they be pulled out of iraq and we would be doing all we can to assure that wars like Iraq and Vietnam cannot happen so easilly and continue for so long.

[n0ov]

I agree with part of this statement.

Abandoning the Powel doctrine, set up from the lessons of Vietnam got us here. #One major rule is never engage in a conflict without a defined exit strategy. #We have Rumsfield to thank for that -- that piece of $hit

Here's a question for ize --- what is the strategy for dealing with terrorist cells that attack the US in the future. #Or should we just lay down until another building in New York, possibily Yonkers, gets destroyed along with a lot of good people.

Is this off topic? #Not sure -- believe the two are linked.

1. #If that time comes again, the same people in uniform your are blasting now will be the same ones you will look to for protection.

2. #We will also be in the same situation as post 911 -- what do you do/who do you hold accountable when the enemey is underground and in hidden cells.

One thing is for sure -- we better learn from past history because if history does not teach us anything, those who don't learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

As for one who has served our country and worn the uniform I respect the training and committment of those troops placed in harms way.

If you don't like the situation they have been put in, that's ok. #I don't either and god knows they don't. #But make no mistake, many of them are professional enough to stay the course or (if the decision is made) to come home.

John, please note -- no personal attacks. #I actually made a strong effort to take what you are saying seriously. #Please give us the same courtesy.

Make no mistake -- those troops are not going blindly into war. They understand what they are up against, and trying to do their best in a very bad situation.

[KI4PJW]

Hooh Ah!, Corporal.

Right now all he can do is focus on CYA, for Himself and his Men.
All the rest will work itself out later.
Hell, I wish I had been as smart as he is at 19.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (n0ov @ May 04 2007,12:52)]I agree with part of this statement.

Abandoning the Powel doctrine, set up from the lessons of Vietnam got us here. #One major rule is never engage in a conflict without a defined exit strategy

Here's a question for ize --- what is the strategy for dealing with terrorist cells that attack the US in the future. #Or should we just lay down until another building in New York, possibily Yonkers, gets destroyed along with a lot of good people.

Is this off topic? #Not sure -- believe the two are linked.

1. #If that time comes again, the same people in uniform your are blasting now will be the same ones you will look to for protection.



One thing is for sure -- we better learn from past history because if history does not teach us anything, those who don't learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
Quote[/b] ]
1. #If that time comes again, the same people in uniform your are blasting now will be the same ones you will look to for protection.


I am not blasting anyone. I am saying that I don't like to see soldiers being used in wars like Iraq. Maybe I don;t understand the military mindset which I why I wouldnt sign up knowing I might be sent into a war like Iraq or Vietnam.

On the other hand I can fully understand fighting in wars like WW2 in which a dangerous and formidable enemy was ruthlessly and mercilessly attacking and something had to be done to stop them. As I said earlier, there are indeed times when evil must be met with force.

Quote[/b] ]
2. #We will also be in the same situation as post 911 -- what do you do/who do you hold accountable when the enemey is underground and in hidden cells.


What do you do ?? You identify your enemy as best you can and when you get a resonable picture of who they are and where they are you may then chose to go after them with military force. To an extent that is what was done early on. But the decision to go into Iraq was not a valid part of persuing our enemies.

You also take an honest look at the situation and you admit to mistakes you may have made. terrorism that led up to 911 did not just happen overnight. It stems from decades of failed diplomacy, support for militant religious factions which turned against us in later years, and many other mistakes (deliberate or otherwise) and failures. Then you correct those types of things to reduce the possibilities of similar problems in the future.

Its a slow process but has to begin somewhere.

[n0ov]

An honest answer -- one I can respect

73 de Dan

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (K7DMB @ May 04 2007,07:21)]These young men have a perfect understanding of patriotism and sacrifice.
Nice sentiment, but I disagree.

I've met many of our returning troops, some of whom have now been deployed and returned twice. Nice young men and even a few nice young ladies.

But their understanding of patriotism is sorely lacking, as is their understanding of the world. Their understanding is limited to knowing how to follow orders, whether they comprehend the orders or not.

That's not patriotism to me, it's simple blind obedience. Those who are part of the military organization say this is a very good trait, and I won't disagree.

But it's not patriotism.

WB2WIK/6

[kd6wd]

I enjoyed this posting. I see a few returning vets from iraq and they are mature beyond their years. They come in all colors of the rainbow. Its funny how they sit and chat with all us old timers. I am 65 and I chat with the older korean and worldwar II guys. There are just a few democrats in the group ( its the old guys from Big red one) only one has complained about the President and that was about social security. I told him your 84 and you have been collecting long enough.

By the way this is at the VA hospital here in Gainesville Florida. One young man plans to go back to Iraq after the VA gets the rest of the shrappnel out of him. He said after he tried to help a baby with holes its body from a bombing in bagdad he said he cried because he did not have enough hands #to cover all of its wounds.before it bled to death. And some people ask why we are there? Ask a big Marine. Dont as me because I was Air Force.