Public employee Hams

[N2TDY]

This may ruffle some feathers but I have to ask, I have noticed recently our local population of hams has rapidly expanded. Lest you think it was just due to relaxing the code requirement it was not. For years our little county has had a weekly ARES net which were little more than a roll call, several times I have tried to introduce topics or promote some message training. Anything suggested was pretty much dismissed by the area coordinator. I have heard it cited time and again that the local OES was reorganizing and soon would be soliciting the local ham community to train and become volunteers for emergency communications.

This of course never happened, now it is coming to light that one of our own (who also works for the local commercial radio dealer) has been holding cram sessions with public health, police and fire personnel and holding invitation only VE tests. Now I know where these new hams are coming from. Here is my question, since I rarely hear these folks on the air except during “drills” a few of which have been held recently by invitation only to these select few, during working hours. What are the laws regulating the use of ham frequencies for these ham/public employees? They for the most part also seem to be fitted out with commercial gear which emits an annoying burst at the end for digital ID and just take over the repeater without warning. Should I be thankful we will have some trained operators in the event of an emergency or should I be worried they will just commandeer the repeater at will and cut the rest of us out. Since the region is very hilly this repeater is the only one that has full county wide coverage. There are other repeaters with limited coverage including one owned by our own little teacher friend. Seems I have seen this topic before somewhere but I could not find it so decided to post my question.

[N2RJ]

We've talked about this here before, and unfortunately that is becoming a growing trend.

The real motivation is the homeland security grants.

I don't think the FCC will have a problem with it, because they are gearing ham radio towards being emergency radio anyway...

[al7n]

Shut the repeater they are using down, or "close" it with a special sub-audible tone squelch frequency.
That'll put a stop to them "comandeering" it. Let them
put up their own repeater on some other frequency pair.

[ab0wr]

Quote[/b] (al7n @ May 03 2007,14:05)]Shut the repeater they are using down, or "close" it with a special sub-audible tone squelch frequency.
That'll put a stop to them "comandeering" it. #Let them
put up their own repeater on some other frequency pair.
On a COMMERCIAL OR NTIA assigned frequency!

tim ab0wr

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (ab0wr @ May 03 2007,18:56)]Quote[/b] (al7n @ May 03 2007,14:05)]Shut the repeater they are using down, or "close" it with a special sub-audible tone squelch frequency.
That'll put a stop to them "comandeering" it. Let them
put up their own repeater on some other frequency pair.
On a COMMERCIAL OR NTIA assigned frequency!

tim ab0wr
Ab-so-damn-lutely!!

I'd think the FCC would have a problem if they started using the local repeater for day to day non emergency operations. Have the owner of the repeater put a PL tone on it.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (al7n @ May 03 2007,14:05)]Shut the repeater they are using down, or "close" it with a special sub-audible tone squelch frequency.
That'll put a stop to them "comandeering" it. Let them
put up their own repeater on some other frequency pair.
THAT will only work if the repeater owner/trustee is also upset with such use of his/her repeater. If the trustee is part of the "Hopeless Security" crew, there's little recourse.

[KB5FSV]

It's a direct violation of FCC Part 97 Rules to hold an "INVITATION ONLY VE SESSION"

And for the record, down here at least the surge in new hams are a direct result to the removal of the CW requirement, and a renewed interest in the local groups to hold study classes and then test sessions a month later.

One such group down here has held 4 different study sessions in the past 4 months, two for technician, one for general and one for extra. And have had VE Testing at the end of each month long class, with a minimum of 15 people passing their exams. I would venture to guess 60 to 80 new hams have been licensed in my local area alone since the Feb 23rd date.

That's a lot of testing and passing. None of them were public safety or public safety driven exams. Just a bunch of seasoned hams getting the bug to bring in some new blood.

[KG4RUL]

Quote[/b] (kb5fsv @ May 03 2007,13:24)]It's a direct violation of FCC Part 97 Rules to hold an "INVITATION ONLY VE SESSION"
if I am not mistaken the FCC recently dropped the requirement for VE Coordinators to advertise test sessions. It sounds to me like Uncle Foxtrot Foxtrot Charlie has given tacit approval to "private" test sessions.

[KS4VT]

They are also in a grey area of this rule if they have another operational communication system in place:

Sec. #97.113 #Prohibited transmissions.

(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be
furnished alternatively through other radio services.

There is no violation of Part 97 to use commercial radios in the AR service. #That has been discussed at great length here in the past.

But what would be a question is if the County is purchasing these radios for a "select few". #Do you think your tax money should outfit the program or if this is #volunteer and secondary to their regular job(s) and should they have purchased their own ham radio equipment?

[N5LRZ]

Re TDY....

In my area we have the same problem in re to message handling and training.

We have a small core of ARES people who check into our net most of which are capable of at least passing and originating messages. Many of these have the ability to transimt said messages via PSK as well.

However the largest part is like your group. They have their radio and their license. They cant see that the license is only the beginning that the process of training is a never ending thing. That technology and its demands are always changing and they are going to have to learn something completely new from time to time. Perhaps such people are better not being in RACES or ARES in the first place.

[K9YLI]

During emergency yest a couple years ago, local Hospital adin. wanted to have an employee train up to get a license and then they were going to install a 2 meter set up in the hospital.
Idea was not to have to waint for a volunteer to show up during an emergency.
I think this would be in conflict with the
"pecuniary interest' clause.
Using you ham privledges in you employors behalf.
Even if "off the clock", you are still aiding and abetting your employer. Except perhaps in a REAL emergency..

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ May 03 2007,19:24)]As for the repeater question, if ALL amateurs can use the repeater, and ALL interested amateurs can participate in preparedness drills, I can't see the problem. It only becomes a problem when commercial radios are used and the general amateur community is excluded from such drills. While the clubs in this area have no problem with the use of the club repeaters for emergency traffic, and in fact such use is part of the county's emergency plans, I see no effort to kick amateurs off of their own privately funded and operated repeater systems here.
The use of commercial equipment on Amateur frequencies is NOT illegal. There's nothing that can be done to prevent that.
But if a government entity is in charge of the drills, and attempts to exclude civilian users of a repeater, the drill would have to be under the auspices of RACES, and such drills are severely limited as to time and duration by FCC rules. (Drills are limited to a total of one hour PER WEEK, and an additional 72 hour period, with prior approval, twice a year.) RACES operations in some circumstances are also restricted to certain frequencies; (§97.407) otherwise, the frequencies are SHARED with the Amateur Service.
In addition, §97.101( c ) specifies that RACES drills do NOT have any priority over normal Amateur operations, and an emergency that activates RACES must be declared an emergency with activation by a government agency.

WHile the rules are pretty specific and restrictive (to prevent abuse or misuse of Amateur Radio frequencies by government/commercial interests) if the repeater owner is part of the group that is involved, there's little that can be done. If actual violation of FCC rules can be documented, then a complaint can be made to the FCC and/or the repeater coordination organization. If the repeater is already classified as "closed" or "private" the coordination group probably can't do much either; the only recourse would be for the users to refuse to pay dues to support the repeater if they aren't allowed free access.

[K8YZK]

Is he related to Uncle Foxtrot CHARLIE Charlie?

No it's Uncle Frank Chad Chump

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (K9YLI @ May 04 2007,09:05)]During emergency yest a couple years ago, local Hospital adin. wanted to have an employee train up to get a license and then they were going to install a 2 meter set up in the hospital.
Idea was not to have to waint for a volunteer to show up during an emergency.
I think this would be in conflict with the
"pecuniary interest' clause.
Using you ham privledges #in you employors behalf.
Even if "off the clock", you are still aiding and abetting your employer. #Except perhaps in a REAL emergency..
OK, on how we do this in CT.

We work with the hospitals to help train their employees. We team them up with local non-hospital volunteers to assist in designing and maintaining the station.

This speeds up their first responder status. Some will participate in a drill with us, I think that is off the clock.

****

Now, on to the RACES bit. Some people just don't want to let go. Let's face it, RACES is disappearing. It's going bye bye. Get used to it.

Many states are moving ARES volunteers as state volunteers and are covered by insurace regs and such. Many run their drills with ARMY/MARS, CAP, etc.

On that note - I know and have heard across the country that in a lot of areas, RACES is being written out, but some of these documents are over 5 decades old and will take time.

When was a RACES license grant last issued? How about the misquote about frequencies above.

I've heard a lot about RACES frequencies in the past six months that makes me laugh. The FCC dropped them in October.

I will quote from the R&O in October, 2006. FCC 06-149, if you wish to download the doc or go to the league site and run a search - they have the link to the FCC site there.

Quote[/b] ]50. Decision. Based on the record before us, we believe that deleting the frequency bands and segments specified for RACES stations is warranted. We agree with ARRL that, because the Director, OSTP has authority over RACES operations in terms of frequencies to be used, the specification of RACES bands during a wartime emergency is unnecessary and duplicative, and can be eliminated, provided that there is a cross-reference to Part 214 of the Commission’s Rules in Section 97.407. Accordingly, we will revise Section 97.407(b) as proposed.

So, that part of part 97 looks like this, I again, quote the same FCC source:

Quote[/b] ]18. Section 97.407 is amended by removing paragraphs (b)(1), (2), and (3), and revising paragraph (b) to read as follows:

§ 97.407 Radio amateur civil emergency service.

(a) * * *

(b) The frequency bands and segments and emissions authorized to the control operator are available to stations transmitting communications in RACES on a shared basis with the amateur service. In the event of an emergency which necessitates invoking the President's War Emergency Powers under the provisions of Section 706 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. 606, RACES stations and amateur stations participating in RACES may only transmit on the frequency segments authorized pursuant to part 214 of this chapter.

* * * * *

Now... on to the public disclosure of VE testing.

Quote[/b] ]54. Decision. We believe that deleting the requirement for public announcement of test locations and times is warranted based on the record before us. The National Conference of Volunteer Examiner Coordinators (NCVEC) supports the proposal, agreeing that adequate announcements are already on club and VEC websites, in newsletters and in other media. NCVEC also notes that public announcements could still be made; they just would not be required by our Rules. We are not persuaded by arguments in the record of this proceeding that public announcement is required "to preclude private, unannounced examination sessions as a means of preventing abuses,” because there is no rule that prohibits VEs from arranging examination sessions on short notice or for only one or a few individuals. Additionally, because the rule does not require that "public announcement" be made at any particular time prior to an examination session, we are not persuaded by the argument that the requirement assists newcomers to become aware of examination opportunities. Rather, we believe that, because there are many other methods that newcomers may use to become aware of examination opportunities, such as club and VEC websites and newsletters, it is unnecessary to specify a particular method in the Part 97 rules. Accordingly, we will revise the rule as proposed. While we are eliminating the public announcement requirement from our Rules, we hereby clarify that VECs may require such an announcement in their individual programs as a condition of coordinating an examination session, if they so choose.

All in all, I actually do not have a problem with hospital employees getting involved, working with ARES and getting proper training in state and municipal drills.

The main result of working with ARES being frequency and net coordination.

In some areas, better repeaters have been made available by such similar arrangements.

At least not here, I haven't seen any problems. But, in other areas, I cannot speak!!!!

Jonathan

[WA9SVD]

While the FCC may have made the rulings concerning frequencies and VE testing, the changes aren't reflected in their "Rules" web site. Then again, it's the government, so I don't necessarily expect things to be up to date. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

But RACES isn't going anywhere soon. Just because the FCC does not issue RACES licenses any more doesn't mean they are going to abolish the program. And while the frequency limitations may have been eliminated (they were only applicable in certain emergency circumstances anyway) the time and duration limits on drills still exist.
More troublesome is that "private" VE sessions are allowed. So much for open disclosure and lack of abuse of the program. It's no wonder some of the "Weekend Schools" can "teach Ham Radio" to customers in a weekend and have a money-back guarantee that people will get their license. If they can now have a private VE session, will anyone really "flunk?" What oversight is there?

[N5LRZ]

Re SVD..."If they can now have a private VE session, will anyone really "flunk?" What oversight is there? "

Even if there were a hundred people in attendance it would not make any difference. OBVIOUSLY you are not a VE. Otherwise you will know that the gradeing of the written tests is NOT shown to the test applicant only that they passed or did not pass. No details are ever given to the testing person in any VE test that I have taken part in.

As to certification thats why they have THREE VEs present at a test confirming.

[N2TDY]

Just an update to clarify, the repeater is PL’d however it is an open repeater and the PL is broadcast with the CWID. I actually have never heard the repeater owner on the air in the seven years I’ve been here, so I don’t know if he has or has not given his approval. It is customary to use this repeater for other events such as bike races so I can’t see him objecting unless it is being used illegally and would endanger his license.

I just see a growing trend of what I would call “secret” drills, this one allegedly was not even using ham radio (to control the information so the PIO’s could limit the press releases) supposedly future drills will include more volunteers, but I have heard that before.

I never said commercial radios were not allowed on our bands, just that the digital burst at the end was annoying. Since these have been set up by a commercial radio dealer/ham it would have been kind of him to program some duplicate channels without the ID function. He is aware of this as others have asked him “what’s wrong with your radio?” before. It just sounds like they enjoy playing with their toys, like the trucker CB’ers with the “gooney bird” noisemaker microphones.

There was another repeater somehow sponsored by the sheriffs department some time ago but it was hardly working until this one was off the air over a dispute with the site owner. At that time someone climbed the tower and found the feed line damaged or disconnected.

Well I may miss talking on the repeater but I am going to exercise my free will and use the off switch on my rig. I will not be the first ham around here to go off air after becoming disgusted with the present state of things. I have not keyed up in two weeks and only listened in once or twice so I am almost “cured” (and no that was not a ham pun)

[W5HTW]

It is sad to see amateur radio being moved toward a "business" of public satey communications. I firmly believe that insisting that public employees of any kind obtain an amateur radio license to be used in any ares of their jobs is extremely damaging to ham radio, and either is, or borders on being, illegal, depending upon the particular circumstances.

Our former emergency manager was a ham. He never used ham radio, and stated categorically to me that he "got a license to help in his job." Not only is that a borderline reason for obtaining one, when he quit that job, he totally quit amateur radio, as it had no meaning to him. Yet his callsign will live another eight years on the FCC rolls.

The new EM who replaced him had also stated to me he was interesting in getting his ham license. However, he never found any suitable chance to follow up on it, as he got the job of EM without having the ham ticket as a "job qualification." Once in, there was a circumstance in which he could have used the ham radio in the EM vehicle. But because he was not licensed, he could not. I was informed he was "being told to get his ham license immediately."

(He has not, as yet.)

That signifies where this is leading us. It takes us down the road of turning amateur radio into public safety radio. Well, there already IS a public safety radio, with a heck of a lot more funding that amateur radio. If we need improved public safey radio, let them spend the government money to improve government radio, and leave ham radio entirely out of the picture. Homeland Secuity (and yes, that was a factor in the first EM's "need" of a ham license) can issue grants to local government agencies as easily as it can to amateur groups. Let's do it that way.



Let's get amateur radio out of the commercial and government radio business!! Before there ISN'T any more 'ham radio.'


Ed

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] ]I just see a growing trend of what I would call “secret” drills, this one allegedly was not even using ham radio (to control the information so the PIO’s could limit the press releases) supposedly future drills will include more volunteers, but I have heard that before.

What is the problem here? I don't go out on police and fire drills. If they aren't using the resources, no problem. Even if they are using repeaters and such, if they have permission from a trustee, then it is still a moot point.

Quote[/b] ]just that the digital burst at the end was annoying.

True - but then again, a lot of people on this end have commercial radios on the ham bands and we're used to it. The quality of the radios is just much better than most ham gear - period.



Quote[/b] ]Well I may miss talking on the repeater but I am going to exercise my free will and use the off switch on my rig.

Well said, always an option.

However, I find it hard to believe that a club can't get good access as was mentioned earlier. The one machine - what a drag.

We have hilly terrain here - so repeaters are very much needed. We are very fortunate to have a lot of repeaters to choose from.

One is a large, privately owned linked repeater system that is fully available to the public.

Hope you find another way around, but I see no problems as mentioned above.

Jonathan

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ May 04 2007,09:54)]Re SVD..."If they can now have a private VE session, will anyone really "flunk?" What oversight is there? "

Even if there were a hundred people in attendance it would not make any difference. OBVIOUSLY you are not a VE. Otherwise you will know that the gradeing of the written tests is NOT shown to the test applicant only that they passed or did not pass. No details are ever given to the testing person in any VE test that I have taken part in.

As to certification thats why they have THREE VEs present at a test confirming.
Perhaps I worded that comment poorly. But if private VE sessions are held, there could be a bit more temptation for cheating on the exams and passing grades given out. If the VE team is in some way part of the "instruction" team, there could at least be a conflict of interest. Certainly, it would require the entire VE team to be involved, but it seems with private sessions, there's less oversight by uninterested individuals. While I'm sure cheating IS extremely rare, it HAS happened on occasion.
Still, private VE sessions, particularly those in association with a "class," are a bit troublesome.

BTW, while VE's are not supposed to go over the test with examinees, or tell them WHICH questions they missed, they DO tell your score, not just if you pass or fail. At least, that's the way the VE's operate here. Not sure how much your mileage may vary...

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ May 04 2007,13:50)]Quote[/b] ]I just see a growing trend of what I would call “secret” drills, this one allegedly was not even using ham radio (to control the information so the PIO’s could limit the press releases) supposedly future drills will include more volunteers, but I have heard that before.

What is the problem here? I don't go out on police and fire drills. If they aren't using the resources, no problem. Even if they are using repeaters and such, if they have permission from a trustee, then it is still a moot point.
Jonathan,
The problem is that this is borderline misuse and illegal use of Amateur Radio for Public Safety purposes, whether the repeater trustee/owner approves, or merely allows such operations. Government entities (State, County, City, Town) are NOT supposed to use Amateur for routine operations, nor are they permitted to seek or demand priority use of ANY Amateur frequency for drills. (If Amateur Radio's RACES is activated in a true emergency, that's a different matter.)

[KS4VT]

We made allocations for those in the public safety areana that want to have "alternative" communications capabilities during a declared emergency, but we made them on VHF simplex only.

The county fire stations purchased push-up poles that they can deploy in a pinch and can chat all they want without interfering with our RACES operations that have priority on most of the local VHF repeaters. We tried to convince them to go UHF but that was an uphill battle because most of them purchased personal single band 2 meter radios.

As most have posted already, only on very rare occassions do we hear them during non-events or even during nets and we also see tons of this with most of the CERT participants that insist that they use ham radio for communications. We find it quite amusing that when we do activate they are so unfamiliar with their equipment that they are calling the EOC for an on the phone training to program and/or operate their radios. My answer to this is poor planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency for us because we already have tons to do.

[N2TDY]

WA9SVD Is correct in his assessment, at least here, two of the VE’s are husband and wife, hubby teaches the class and they are two of three VE’s. Now there is a third VE in training who already has an association with the sheriff’s department so… no conflict of interest here.

Add to that this turkey has lived here in the county for several years and he, his wife and their 18 year old still have their address listed at a PO box a Hundred miles away? I got into a tiff with this guy last field day when others sent me photos and for some reason he did not want his or his family’s pictures posted publicly, as a matter of fact he sent me a certified letter (which I did not sign for) and I suppose it was another threat of legal action after his tirade on air.

[KB1KIX]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ May 04 2007,19:29)]Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ May 04 2007,13:50)]Quote[/b] ]I just see a growing trend of what I would call “secret” drills, this one allegedly was not even using ham radio (to control the information so the PIO’s could limit the press releases) supposedly future drills will include more volunteers, but I have heard that before.

What is the problem here? #I don't go out on police and fire drills. #If they aren't using the resources, no problem. #Even if they are using repeaters and such, if they have permission from a trustee, then it is still a moot point.
Jonathan,
# #The problem is that this is borderline misuse and illegal use of Amateur Radio for Public Safety purposes, whether the repeater trustee/owner approves, or merely allows such operations. #Government entities (State, County, City, Town) are NOT supposed to use Amateur for routine operations, nor are they permitted to seek or demand priority use of ANY Amateur frequency for drills. #(If Amateur Radio's RACES is activated in a true emergency, that's a different matter.)
SVD,

I'm talking about the part in the statement about not using amateur radio.

If they aren't using amateur radio - then I still do not see what the issue is?

I'm not being dense, I'm open to being enlightened in the matter. I just read what was stated, then the reply and I still don't "get it".

*****

On the "secret" VE sessions - I can see both sides of the issue. First, I don't like any VE session being private - period.

I don't care if it wasn't advertised, but that doesn't necessarily make it private.

There is validity to the point about people related giving the same exam. If we can't be related and give the exam to a relative, I can more than see that on the VE side as well.

Jonathan

[N2TDY]

I can't resist any more where does that face come form, OK I know it was National Lampoon and the beaver boy but was it Ranger BOb?

[KB1KIX]

J.R. Bob Dobbs and the Church of the Subgenius.

You might have a little slack in ya if you recognize Bob!

Google it and it might bring back memories!

Jonathan

[ac3p]

Quote[/b] ] Let's face it, RACES is disappearing. It's going bye bye.

Not in Baltimore County, Md. RACES is the only game in town. The local RACES is under the local DHS.

ARES was given the boot over a year ago. If you want to do ECOMM in Baltimore County you have to be a RACES member with the police background checks.

When ARES got the boot so did WINLINK. MT-63 is the digital mode of choice although we still have voice nets with their own protocols and message formats.

[KB1KIX]

How do you become a RACES member? How are you licensed? Frequencies used?

I'm not being facetious, seriously. This is one of the most frustrating parts of the RACES discussion.

No new license grants, renewals.
Frequency plans (those differing from amateur radio) removed last October.
Last license was how long ago?

It's just too frustrating.

Jonathan

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ May 09 2007,07:05)]Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ May 04 2007,19:29)]Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ May 04 2007,13:50)]Quote[/b] ]I just see a growing trend of what I would call “secret” drills, this one allegedly was not even using ham radio (to control the information so the PIO’s could limit the press releases) supposedly future drills will include more volunteers, but I have heard that before.

What is the problem here? I don't go out on police and fire drills. If they aren't using the resources, no problem. Even if they are using repeaters and such, if they have permission from a trustee, then it is still a moot point.
Jonathan,
The problem is that this is borderline misuse and illegal use of Amateur Radio for Public Safety purposes, whether the repeater trustee/owner approves, or merely allows such operations. Government entities (State, County, City, Town) are NOT supposed to use Amateur for routine operations, nor are they permitted to seek or demand priority use of ANY Amateur frequency for drills. (If Amateur Radio's RACES is activated in a true emergency, that's a different matter.)
SVD,

I'm talking about the part in the statement about not using amateur radio.

If they aren't using amateur radio - then I still do not see what the issue is?

I'm not being dense, I'm open to being enlightened in the matter. I just read what was stated, then the reply and I still don't "get it".

*****

On the "secret" VE sessions - I can see both sides of the issue. First, I don't like any VE session being private - period.

I don't care if it wasn't advertised, but that doesn't necessarily make it private.

There is validity to the point about people related giving the same exam. If we can't be related and give the exam to a relative, I can more than see that on the VE side as well.

Jonathan
Jonathan:

I was speaking in a broader sense, not necessarily to that one particular instance. The original post said the "officials" were taking over a repeater for drills.
While they are welcome to "drill" and practice all they want on their own Public Service frequencies, there are limits to how much time can be demanded of Amateur Radio participation. And whether or not a repeater trustee "OK's" a certain use, doesn't necessarily make it legal.

As to VE testing: whether public or private, I see a BIG problem with a person "teaching" a Class in Amateur Radio, and then being a member of the VE Team that participates in a test session for those students. There's just too much chance of a conflict of interest. When the test session is private, it's an even bigger temptation.

[WA0LYK]

Ya'll wait and see, at sometime these repeaters will be "commandeered" for the public safety agency's sole use. Perhaps their system fails and they have no backup and/or don't have the budget to fix it. The repeater owner turn it off, no way. It will be just like the police commandeering your auto, you don't get to refuse.

Perhaps an emergency occurs and they commandeer it for their sole use. Hospital's forget it, Red Cross and Salvation Army support, forget it. Regular ham traffic, forget it.

Maybe this won't be widespread, but I'll bet it occurs somewhere, sometime in the future. And, it may easily become more prevalent once it becomes known that agencies can save money by doing so.

Jim
WA0LYK

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (ac3p @ May 09 2007,14:04)]Not in Baltimore County, Md. RACES is the only game in town. The local RACES is under the local DHS.
Same here in Iberville Parish, Louisiana.
RACES is part of our OEP's Auxillary Communications Service (ACS). All Emcomm is done by the ACS.
RACES/ACS members are considered unpaid EOC staff subject to criminal background checks, training requirements and everything required of paid staff.
No ARRL ARES here. Red Cross opens a shelter? OEP will send ACS/RACES volunteers or supply Public Safety radios to shelter managers to contact the EOC.

[KG4RUL]

From the ARRL Letter
Vol. 26, No. 28
July 13, 2007

.................

==> FCC Releases Post-Katrina Order, "Final Rule"

On July 11, the FCC released their Order regarding the recommendations
of the independent panel reviewing the impact of Hurricane Katrina on
communications networks (the Katrina Panel). It contained their
conclusions following a review of the comments filed in response to the
FCC's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM). The Commission asked for
comments a week after the release of the report and recommendations of
the Katrina Panel and directed the Public Safety & Homeland Security
Bureau (PSHSB) to implement several of the recommendations. The FCC also
adopted rules requiring some communications providers to have
emergency/back-up power and to conduct analyses and submit reports on
the redundancy and resiliency of their 911 and E911 networks. The FCC's
actions are to go into effect August 10.

The Commission noted that "the amateur radio community played an
important role in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and other
disasters," and instructed the PSHSB to "include the amateur radio
community in its outreach efforts."

The FCC invited comments on the Katrina Panel's recommendation that the
FCC "act to enhance the public safety community's awareness of
non-traditional emergency alternative technologies that might be of
value as back-up communications systems in a crisis." Several commenters
suggested that the public safety community be educated about the
applicability of Amateur Radio in a crisis. The FCC agreed with these
comments, saying that improving the public safety community's knowledge
of, and training in, alternative technologies would improve preparedness
for future crises. They directed the PSHSB to "develop and implement an
awareness program to educate public safety agencies about alternative
technologies and to encourage agencies to provide regular training on
any alternative technologies to be used," including educating public
safety agencies about alternative technologies.

The recommendations said that several Amateur Radio operators
recommended changes to Part 97 of the FCC's rules; Part 97 is the
section that covers Amateur Radio. Many of the suggestions, the report
said, have already been implemented, and as such, require no further
action. For example, "the Commission recently eliminated Morse Code
proficiency as a license qualification requirement, an action supported
by several commenters in this proceeding."

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The FCC once again made clear that Part 97 "does not prohibit Amateur
Radio operators who are emergency personnel engaged in disaster relief
from using their amateur radio bands while in a paid duty status." This
changed this past December in WT Docket 04-140, the "Omnibus" Amateur
Radio Report and Order (R&O).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Commission also previously decided to phase out RACES station
licenses, "making proposed changes to rules relevant to these licenses
moot." ARRL Regulatory Information Specialist Dan Henderson, N1ND, notes
that the FCC "is not phasing out the RACES program, just the RACES
station licenses."

In his comments to the Katrina Panel, W. Lee McVey requested that the
FCC initiate a rulemaking to create a new radio service in the 148-150
MHz band "to facilitate interoperability between different first
responders during and following a national emergency." The FCC noted
that the 148-149.9 MHz band is allocated on a primary basis for the
federal mixed, mobile and mobile satellite (Earth-to-space) service, and
the 149-150.05 MHz segment is allocated on a co-primary basis for
federal and non-federal mobile satellite (Earth-to-space) and radio
navigation.

The FCC's report said "[This] petition does not address this use nor
does it explain what rules would be necessary to govern access to this
spectrum. Given the potential impact of McVey's proposal to spectrum
allocated for federal use, we direct PSHSB, together with the Office of
Engineering and Technology (OET), to seek feedback from the National
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) on this
petition."

The FCC said that when it receives the feedback, they will direct PSHSB
and OET to make a determination on the appropriate action to be taken on
McVey's petition.

[N2RJ]

Come on now guys, I'm ashamed at some of you. How could you defend this?

The idea of having amateur radio participate in emergency preparedness is to apply our skill as amateur radio operators which we keep in practice during regular times of non-emergency.

Training public safety personnel and giving them ham licenses while totally shutting out the local ham community totally defeats that purpose.

In other words, it's not just our frequencies that make us useful in an emergency, but our ability to improvise in a bad situation.

Case in point - what if hurricane X comes and repeaters go bye bye? They'll still have to call us and we'll know how to put up temporary antennas and operate simplex, or put up a wire and operate on HF. We know things like propagation and how to build antennas from common household materials.

I know some public safety "hams" who don't even know their own callsign! They cram for exam and hold a piece of paper which they don't know how to use. They are given pre-programmed radios with the local repeaters. I can't imagine any one of them being able to take some pieces of copper pipe and making a J-pole, or QSYing when a jammer makes their repeater useless. How are they supposed to harness the usefulness of ham radio in an emergency?

Think about it!

[KI4WEJ]

How are they using the repeater for official business? I never heard that come from N2TDY but instead this story has turned to that. What you should do is welcome the public safety community with open arms! After all if ARES or RACES is ever truly needed you will need to work with them!

[KB3LXF]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ May 04 2007,13:25)]It is sad to see amateur radio being moved toward a "business" of public satey communications. I firmly believe that insisting that public employees of any kind obtain an amateur radio license to be used in any ares of their jobs is extremely damaging to ham radio, and either is, or borders on being, illegal, depending upon the particular circumstances.

Our former emergency manager was a ham. He never used ham radio, and stated categorically to me that he "got a license to help in his job." Not only is that a borderline reason for obtaining one, when he quit that job, he totally quit amateur radio, as it had no meaning to him. Yet his callsign will live another eight years on the FCC rolls.

The new EM who replaced him had also stated to me he was interesting in getting his ham license. However, he never found any suitable chance to follow up on it, as he got the job of EM without having the ham ticket as a "job qualification." Once in, there was a circumstance in which he could have used the ham radio in the EM vehicle. But because he was not licensed, he could not. I was informed he was "being told to get his ham license immediately."

(He has not, as yet.)

That signifies where this is leading us. It takes us down the road of turning amateur radio into public safety radio. Well, there already IS a public safety radio, with a heck of a lot more funding that amateur radio. If we need improved public safey radio, let them spend the government money to improve government radio, and leave ham radio entirely out of the picture. Homeland Secuity (and yes, that was a factor in the first EM's "need" of a ham license) can issue grants to local government agencies as easily as it can to amateur groups. Let's do it that way.



Let's get amateur radio out of the commercial and government radio business!! Before there ISN'T any more 'ham radio.'


Ed
At some local fire-stations around me, people tend to become more dominant when you tell them you have a Ham Radio license. I'm pretty sure it's not a common phenomena, but it occurs with me occasionally. People will tell me either that a) Ham radio is useless, and I'm wasting time/money, or b) That they'll get there license soon, except have an ACTUAL use for it (as your EM did).

It can get annoying but so far no-one else I know has a Ham License, and the people who call it useless seem to be just annoyed and want to insult the hobby some way.

[K0RGR]

Yeah, ham radio is useless in disasters - that's why the Fire Chief of our large, paid department was asking me if I could get messages into the nearby disaster area for him on Sunday. He also used me to relay messages to the EOC for him. This scene was repeated in a lot of local towns.

As for the hospital employees getting ham licenses to eliminate the response time - GREAT! Now, make sure those people know enough to actually be useful. If they can set up equipment, there's lots they can do. We have a group of hams dedicated to covering our local hospitals. But, this recent disaster happened with so little warning, we had a hard time getting enough volunteers to cover the shelters, let alone the hospitals.

No, I don't like the idea of people getting a ham license just to do emergency comms, but I don't like the idea of them just chasing DX or ragchewing on 75 meters, either.
If that's what the people want to use it for, I'm not the one to tell them otherwise. I'd like to see them sample other aspects of ham radio, but if they choose not to, so be it.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (KB1KIX @ May 09 2007,17:44)]How do you become a RACES member? #How are you licensed? #Frequencies used?
Quite simple. Contact your local RACES Radio Officer or EOC and tell them you want to sign up for RACES.

Your amateur license is all the license you need.

You may use any amateur frequency authorized your class of license.


Like Baltimore County, MD, here in Montgomery County, MD RACES has been the only group associated with the County EOC for as long as I can remember. ARES exists but supports Red Cross and other non-governmental organizations. Pretty much statewide here in MD RACES is the amateur group that assists local government in the event supplemental communications are needed. ARES has been trying to get back in to helping governments but is up against a strong RACES program here.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[N4AUD]

Quote[/b] (N2RJ @ July 15 2007,14:51)]Come on now guys, I'm ashamed at some of you. How could you defend this?

The idea of having amateur radio participate in emergency preparedness is to apply our skill as amateur radio operators which we keep in practice during regular times of non-emergency.

Training public safety personnel and giving them ham licenses while totally shutting out the local ham community totally defeats that purpose.

In other words, it's not just our frequencies that make us useful in an emergency, but our ability to improvise in a bad situation.

Case in point - what if hurricane X comes and repeaters go bye bye? They'll still have to call us and we'll know how to put up temporary antennas and operate simplex, or put up a wire and operate on HF. We know things like propagation and how to build antennas from common household materials.

I know some public safety "hams" who don't even know their own callsign! They cram for exam and hold a piece of paper which they don't know how to use. They are given pre-programmed radios with the local repeaters. I can't imagine any one of them being able to take some pieces of copper pipe and making a J-pole, or QSYing when a jammer makes their repeater useless. How are they supposed to harness the usefulness of ham radio in an emergency?

Think about it!
You are 100% correct Ryan.

IF YOU ARE GETTING PAID TO TRANSMIT ON AMATEUR FREQUENCIES, YOU ARE NO LONGER AN AMATEUR!

In an emergency, truly life or death, ANY frequency that will accomplish the job is fine BUT amateur frequencies shouldn't be used by professionals to pass routine traffic. We are supposed to know the rules, we are supposed to have a clue about the technical side of things and that's why amateurs may be useful in an emergency because we CAN improvise.

I find this trend very worrisome and think it will be detrimental to amateur radio. People with no interest in amateur radio being required to get licensed, and in many cases with employers who don't know Part 97 from a phone book.

I'm sure a lot of these types think that they can use amateur frequencies as PROFESSIONALS to handle routine traffic if their repeater goes down...after all, they own the amateur repeater too...