Astron 35A series power supply.

[KE5FRF]

Walked up to the door step today and my new unit was there. Plugged it in and the sound of frying bacon lasted only a second and another second to see the plume of white smoke from the back left corner.

I'm a ham, so I popped the cover and found what looks to be the regulator was toasted on the board mounted to the big electrolytic. Also, several solder joints looked like the heat from the short had done a little damage.

I didn't focus real hard on the bad components, because this is a cut and dry warranty issue. But I did find that one of the large power transistors was the victim of a poor clean-up job after it was soldered. The large red conductor soldered to one leg was shorted to the excess wire of another conductor on the other leg. In other words, the technician that built the thing neglected to trim off the extra length of wire when he finished up.

I'm not going to pass judgement on Astron for this. Stuff happens. Just warning folks that it might be a good idea to pop the cover and inspect the beast before applying power. I'm not sure I would have noticed this short without knowing it was there, but I wish I had at least looked.

This might be better in the equipment review forum, but I didn't want to post it there because I'm not of the notion to criticize yet. Lets see how the replacement turns out.

I will say, though, that its my opinion that full shipping costs should be covered when such a defect shows up. I was told that I would have to pay one way shipping. To me, that is not standing behind your product.

[wb7dmx]

that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.

[KC0W]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 03 2007,00:44)]I will say, though, that its my opinion that full shipping costs should be covered when such a defect shows up. I was told that I would have to pay one way shipping. To me, that is not standing behind your product.
This is the oldest trick in the book.

I purchased a LogiKey K-3 keyer a few years ago direct from the manufacture. It was DOA. When I called LogiKey, the owner told me there were issues regarding the board in the keyer & that I should ship it back for a new one.

LogiKey stated that it was MY responsibility to pay for shipping back to the factory. We went around & around about this fee.......LogiKey were adamant that they were not going to pay for shipping.

Even though it was only $5 to ship the keyer, why should I have to pay a dime when bad keyers went out their door?


Tom kcØw

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ May 02 2007,19:54)]that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.
Yep, I would have assumed that it was bench tested. The tag of wire that was not trimmed was just barely touching the other leg of the transistor. It is bossible that it wasn't touching on the bench, and during the shipping and packing proccess it was bent or moved. The culprit is one of the small gauge wires soldered to the PT, so it wouldn't take much to make it touch the other leg.

Or, it simply could be that this unit was neglected.

Anyway, I talked to an engineer and he told me I had to deal with the vendor to get my exchange. I was told I have to pay one way shipping. I'm not at all happy with that! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KC7UP]

When I buy a new piece of equipment I request the dealer to bench test it for operational abilities and include a signed statement it was operated. So far most of the time it worked in getting the statement.
Curt

[KD6NIG]

White smoke? You didn't buy an Astron steam engine, did you?

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif is it for sale now...as is ?

[KI4PQW]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 02 2007,12:02)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ May 02 2007,19:54)]that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.
Yep, I would have assumed that it was bench tested. The tag of wire that was not trimmed was just barely touching the other leg of the transistor. It is bossible that it wasn't touching on the bench, and during the shipping and packing proccess it was bent or moved. The culprit is one of the small gauge wires soldered to the PT, so it wouldn't take much to make it touch the other leg.

Or, it simply could be that this unit was neglected.

Anyway, I talked to an engineer and he told me I had to deal with the vendor to get my exchange. I was told I have to pay one way shipping. I'm not at all happy with that! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Pay to ship back a new unit? What does the vendor say?

If the vendor isn't cooperative and if you paid by credit card you have other options.

[ai4ep]

you didnt get it at a bargain from a dude selling them out of the trunk of his car, or one of those " pillar of the community " truck drivers, did ya ?

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (KI4PQW @ May 02 2007,20:38)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 02 2007,12:02)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ May 02 2007,19:54)]that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.
Yep, I would have assumed that it was bench tested. The tag of wire that was not trimmed was just barely touching the other leg of the transistor. It is bossible that it wasn't touching on the bench, and during the shipping and packing proccess it was bent or moved. The culprit is one of the small gauge wires soldered to the PT, so it wouldn't take much to make it touch the other leg.

Or, it simply could be that this unit was neglected.

Anyway, I talked to an engineer and he told me I had to deal with the vendor to get my exchange. I was told I have to pay one way shipping. I'm not at all happy with that! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Pay to ship back a new unit? What does the vendor say?

If the vendor isn't cooperative and if you paid by credit card you have other options.
The vendor is the one that said I had to pay half.

I'm going to call Astron again tomorrow, and tell them what I found wrong. I'm going to insist that they pay the vendor all costs associated with the shipment of the product.

If they give me trouble, I'll seek other recourse. But obviously I'm ultimately at their mercy. But, if I don't get it my way, that will be the last dealings I have with either the vendor or Astron. I'm young, have lots of purchases ahead of me.

Anyway, I'm not bad mouthing the product. This kind of thing happens. A lot of good products out there and you'll get a defect now and then. I'm just saying I have expectations.

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ May 02 2007,20:42)]you didnt get it at a bargain from a dude selling them out of the trunk of his car, or one of those " pillar of the community " truck drivers, did ya ?
Nah, it was one of the big dealers. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I got it because I'm trying to eliminate all sources of noise in the shack. Been using a switcher for a year now, and find it **sometimes** causes noise on HF. I'm hoping to be one of the fortunate ones to work BS7H and need all the help I can get to hear them. Yeah, right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[ai4ep]

FRF --- you are a liocensed amateur radio operator...you should be able to fix this item yourself.

be a man

do it

and qwitcherwhining. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (see the smiley ? )

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 02 2007,18:02)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ May 02 2007,19:54)]that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.
Yep, I would have assumed that it was bench tested. The tag of wire that was not trimmed was just barely touching the other leg of the transistor. It is bossible that it wasn't touching on the bench, and during the shipping and packing proccess it was bent or moved. The culprit is one of the small gauge wires soldered to the PT, so it wouldn't take much to make it touch the other leg.

Or, it simply could be that this unit was neglected.

Anyway, I talked to an engineer and he told me I had to deal with the vendor to get my exchange. I was told I have to pay one way shipping. I'm not at all happy with that! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Two issues:

1 Astron usually has a very good reliability record, so this was an unusual occurence.

2. I agree, it's extremely unfair, but almost ALL companies and businesses require the customer pay shipping on warrantee repairs. Unless laws are changed, though, companies are not about to change their policies.
(However, laws CAN change those policies; a change in law was required to force companies to honor written warrantees, whether or not a "registration card" were returned. All that is required now is "proof of purchase" with a dated sales receipt.)

Sorry your unit was defective. That's unlike Astron to let such a defect slip through.

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ May 02 2007,20:56)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 02 2007,18:02)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ May 02 2007,19:54)]that is odd as everything is supposed to be bench tested before packing, its called quality control.
I think a phone call to them is in order.
Yep, I would have assumed that it was bench tested. The tag of wire that was not trimmed was just barely touching the other leg of the transistor. It is bossible that it wasn't touching on the bench, and during the shipping and packing proccess it was bent or moved. The culprit is one of the small gauge wires soldered to the PT, so it wouldn't take much to make it touch the other leg.

Or, it simply could be that this unit was neglected.

Anyway, I talked to an engineer and he told me I had to deal with the vendor to get my exchange. I was told I have to pay one way shipping. I'm not at all happy with that! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Two issues:

1 #Astron usually has a very good reliability record, so this was an unusual occurence.

2. #I agree, it's extremely unfair, but almost ALL companies and businesses require the customer pay shipping on warrantee repairs. #Unless laws are changed, though, companies are not about to change their policies.
# #(However, laws CAN change those policies; a change in law was required to force companies to honor written warrantees, whether or not a "registration card" were returned. #All that is required now is "proof of purchase" with a dated sales receipt.)

# #Sorry your unit was defective. #That's unlike Astron to let such a defect slip through.
I agree with that. But there is a difference, in my mind, between a warranty repair and a defect out of the box.

If I had been using the dern thing for 9 months and the regulator popped, given I was using it within its specified parameters, I would expect to pay shipping for a repair. That would be fair and equitable. But having something pass through the cracks of QC and not take full responsibility for it is a totally different issue in my mind.

[kf4vgx]

Heath, I would never say this to a new poster on QRZ.

I fear they would not know how to take my sense of humor,but I know you do http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

You let the "smoke'" get out of it http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Thats what happen http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .



AMATEUR RADIO FOREST FIRE LOOKOUT ...

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/fire/images/smokey.jpg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KE5FRF]

I always enjoy your pictures, Johnny! LOL http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WA9SVD]

Well, it was a new unit. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif At least you weren't subjected to "second hand" smoke! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It IS infuriating to have brand new equipment fail the "smoke" test. Hope you can get some satisfaction, perhaps from the dealer, with reimbursement for the shipping.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] ]Astron 35A series power supply., Brand new. White smoke.

Well that's your proof it was new, the smoke gets darker and darker with years of use http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KM5FL]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 02 2007,19:46)]But obviously I'm ultimately at their mercy.
Not if you paid by credit card. KI4PQW has it nailed.. Call your credit card company and explain the situation. The credit card company will place the transaction on hold pending the outcome.

I once had this to happen to me. The dealer told me I'd have to pay the return shipping. When they heard from my credit card company, they immediately shipped a replacement and advised me to use the enclosed "prepaid" shipping label to return the defective unit. While all this was unfolding, my credit card company contacted me and instructed me to contact them when I was satisfied with the replacement unit. I won't mention the dealer's name because the manager personally contacted me, issued an apology, and completely rectified the situation.. since then, they have been very pleasant to deal with..

For the record, this transaction was not amateur radio related.

KM5FL

[ai4ep]

( hee hee hee ) at least when km5fl DOES make a post, it is worthwhile information, not like that &^%$ B S that ol' ai4ep is usually sending out ....ol' EP never DOES make a post worth reading, just ask a few folks......if ol' EP would spend as much time practicing his C Was he does posting his ol' worthless messages, he would be sending at about 50 or more words-per-minute instead of his miniscule 6 - 10 words ( only if they are simple words like I, ME, HIM, HER, etc )...I just dont see why some of you big bad mean folks just dont go to ol' EP s house and whoop his scrangy littl' butt, pull down his g5rv, put a baseball bat to his "GREAT" 940 kenwood, and throw a cobra 29 cb radio with an echo mike in his broken / leaning against an ol' fence post mailbox with most of the letters missing and tell him that is all he can talk on !!

OF course he has that ol' ^%$#-eating dog hanging around, so most of you folks better stay away or you might get bit ...that may be why HE is on the computer so much instead of going outside !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ai4ep]

...and no I aint been outside yet this mornin' either !!

[ky5u]

FLASH!

[KE5FRF]

Hiroshima ™ brand power supplies, the best bang for your buck! LOL

Well, I have good news to report. The vendor got testy with me about covering the shipping charges both ways on the supply, saying they would never make any money if they did that. Well, boo hoo I wanted to say, and I DID ask them if they have that big of a problem selling junk equipment and suggested they look for better suppliers. That was tongue in cheek, because I don't believe for one minute that it would break them to stand behind the product they sell, even as distributors.

Anyway, the good news is that I callled Astron again and told them that their distributor isn't going to be equitable on the exchange, and that I was not going to stand for losing money on a defective supply due to their mistake. I told them I expected to pay no more out of my pocket than the original price of the new supply and one way shipping (which I've already payed) when this is all said and done. The Astron fellow changed his tune a bit about the responsibility being upon the vendor when I told him it was a manufacturing defect that I'd found. I was able to cancel the order for the second supply from the vendor, and Astron assured me a new supply with a return shipping label will be put in the mail today.


So, for all who read this thread, my report thus far is that Astron WILL stand behind their product without too much hassle. I'll give them a B+ in that regard. I can't comment on the reliability of their product over the long haul, but I'm going to give them a B- on their craftsmanship, ignoring the fatal fault of not trimming the excess wire, I wasn't all that impressed with the solder work and some of the "Ugly" component wiring. All in all, they get a B from me so far, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to say I'm "satisfied".

As far as the vendor goes, I'm not impressed or satisfied. This is the second product I've purchased from them, and my first issue. When it comes to standing behind your product, even a distributor should put the customer first and build his reputation on satisfaction. Even if he has to charge 1% more on each sale to cover the losses of equitable replacements. Cutting your price to be cheaper than the competition but not standing behind your product is NOT good business in my mind.

Needless to say, I'll no longer do business with this company. They lost more than the cost of a PSU with me.

When the metaphorical smoke clears, I WILL be putting my review of the vendor up on eHAM and here on QRZ about this is all said and done.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 03 2007,17:01)]Hiroshima ™ brand power supplies, the best bang for your buck! LOL

Well, I have good news to report. The vendor got testy with me about covering the shipping charges both ways on the supply, saying they would never make any money if they did that. Well, boo hoo I wanted to say, and I DID ask them if they have that big of a problem selling junk equipment and suggested they look for better suppliers. That was tongue in cheek, because I don't believe for one minute that it would break them to stand behind the product they sell, even as distributors.

Anyway, the good news is that I callled Astron again and told them that their distributor isn't going to be equitable on the exchange, and that I was not going to stand for losing money on a defective supply due to their mistake. I told them I expected to pay no more out of my pocket than the original price of the new supply and one way shipping (which I've already payed) when this is all said and done. The Astron fellow changed his tune a bit about the responsibility being upon the vendor when I told him it was a manufacturing defect that I'd found. I was able to cancel the order for the second supply from the vendor, and Astron assured me a new supply with a return shipping label will be put in the mail today.


So, for all who read this thread, my report thus far is that Astron WILL stand behind their product without too much hassle. I'll give them a B+ in that regard. I can't comment on the reliability of their product over the long haul, but I'm going to give them a B- on their craftsmanship, ignoring the fatal fault of not trimming the excess wire, I wasn't all that impressed with the solder work and some of the "Ugly" component wiring. All in all, they get a B from me so far, giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to say I'm "satisfied".

As far as the vendor goes, I'm not impressed or satisfied. This is the second product I've purchased from them, and my first issue. When it comes to standing behind your product, even a distributor should put the customer first and build his reputation on satisfaction. Even if he has to charge 1% more on each sale to cover the losses of equitable replacements. Cutting your price to be cheaper than the competition but not standing behind your product is NOT good business in my mind.

Needless to say, I'll no longer do business with this company. They lost more than the cost of a PSU with me.

When the metaphorical smoke clears, I WILL be putting my review of the vendor up on eHAM and here on QRZ about this is all said and done.
My 35A has been running constantly for 15 years. Never even blown a fuse.

You just got caught with the last one manufactured on the Friday before somebody's big fishing/hunting trip.

[KE5FRF]

Kevin, that's exactly what I said! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Their reputation is too goodfor it to be anything else, unless some drastic new management philosophy has taken place. It may be a new technician on the job, or as you said, it might have been the last one built on a three day weekend and the fellow wasn't paying the attention he should have.

I don't judge a company negatively when I get a defect. It is the service after the sale that I judge a product by. In this case, Astron has met my expectations. The distributor DIDN'T meet my expectations. Its that simple, really.

[KE5FRF]

Maybe I wasn't clear. When I review this on eHam, it will not be Astron who gets low marks from me....it will be a certain distributor. I'm going to refrain from any negative comments toward Astron, I'm neutral on them.

[w4pjh]

FRF,

Good job, way to stand up! I'm glad you got it resolved and I had a feeling it would be Astron that got it right in the end. Now, go over and post who the dealer was!!!

Yes, I am sort of interested in who the vendor was too.
That isn't the sort of thing I would expect from ANY of the better known vendors.

BTW, I have had an Astron 35M for ~10 years, and never had any problems whatsoever.

I recently bought a 30A switched Astron supply because I was a little fed up of the weight of the thing. That seems to work ok, except for one small thing -- depending on where I place it, when I Tx on 20M it shuts down!!

Tried ferrite bead on the 110v cable, and on the cable to the rig, neither seem to have any effect.

In one way, I keep thinking its my own fault because the rf field is obviously too high, on the other hand, nothing else is getting upset when I Tx on 20M http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KE5FRF]

Really it would be both tacky and fooLish for me to post the electronics vendor here.

[w4pjh]

Say no more!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 03 2007,18:00)]Really it would be both tacky and fooLish for me to post the electronics vendor here.
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I honestly can't remember where I bought mine but I'm pretty sure it was either Burghardts while the old man was still with us or AES.

[KC7UP]

My Astron RS35M has been running since 1981 and only had to replace on on/off switch 2 days ago. That is dependability.
Curt

[ai4ep]

...but then, how often does the AVERAGE user turn the power supply off & on ?

Me, I have mine set up to be on 24 / 7 , and the only time it is OFF is when the power is off to the entire house/trailer/etc .

But to each his / her own .

I rarely use equipment that draws 10 amps, much less all 35, so mine SHOULD last another few minutes before it gives problems, cause sure as I brag about it, something will go wrong with it ( murphys law ).

One of my friends had a chevy truck he consistently bragged about, yet it stayed in the shop / garage quite a bit...yet when he had a FORD truck, he did no bragging, yet IT didnt stay in the repair shop half the time.

[WA9UAA]

Hi Heath,
Sorry to hear of your experience, I have several Astrons and have never had a bit of trouble. The RS 20A goes back to about 1987 or so. When I was in manufacturing back in the late 90s there was a move to hire just about anybody and train them to do a specific job. This tends to eliminate people who know the little 'details' when it comes to assembly. Unfortunately, you got the one where somebody wasn't paying attention. Glad to hear it will work out.
73,
Rob WA9UAA

[kf4vgx]

True Story ,Not related to this topic but a rather humorous power supply story that happen few years ago.

I over heard this guy crying about his Astron over one of the local two meter repeaters .He had taken it to a local dealer to have it repaired and was raising havoc about how he had purchased it from them and they would not fix it or give him a new one.

Bad mouthing the local company on simplex and then on to HF .


Long story short the power supply landed in my hands for repairs.
Opening the case I started to investigate the problems.
Then I read the label that was on the inside of the case cover.

" Copper Electronics" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif .

And then it hit me, I remembered him bragging about how he had saved money on this particular power supply .

I don't know how bad he hurt the local companies reputation but there out of business now.

I closed it up and told him to get out of my house . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif