De plane, boss, HF in de plane!

[kc2ten]

After consulting with the FCC, my squadron's chain of command and, finally, the aircraft commander that's running us around the world right now, I have gotten on HF while flying.

Made a few contacts on 20 before we had to divert and land in Lajes, in the Azores. All of them in Europe, with the first going to IW2MJQ in Italy. Got good signal reports, mostly due to the huge size of the antenna (the whole aircraft) and 400 watts of power, I'd bet.

It was a grand time and rather seductive. I am going to have to do it again, hopefully this afternoon if we leave this rock today. I guess I'm going to have to make up a QSL card for this and, since this is the easiest way for me to get on HF, keep a better log than just a little pocket notebook.

So, barring things going wrong, I should be up on or around 14.320 around 16-1700Z.

[WS2L]

I think that altitude of the antenna helped also, I would love to get on HF from 35,000 ft......even VHF

[kc2ten]

Yeah, being six or seven miles up tends to help out. Our UHF/VHF radios have about 150/250 miles at altitude, standard for airliners.

I'd like to try the VHF/UHF one day, but they're generally in use over land, so that fixes that.

[WA9SVD]

400 Watts, and "the whole airplane" is the antenna?
Whether you agree with the concept or not, have you done an RF exposure assessment?

What sort of antenna would the aircraft usually use if it were required to use HF military frequencies?

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (WS2L @ May 01 2007,06:39)]I think that altitude of the antenna helped also, I would love to get on HF from 35,000 ft......even VHF
Forget that, I would like to get on VHF and UHF from orbit...

DXCC on 2m and 70cm easy... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W0LPQ]

SVD not a concern at all. Commercial, corporate and military basically use the same thing. In some earlier aircraft they used a wire (or 2 or 3 in the case of some C-130's) and the 618T-3/T-4. Newer ones use the later solid state ARC/HF-190 or 728U. Yes, 400W. Antenna usually the aircraft vertical stab leading edge. It is insulated from the airframe at the bottom and grounded at the top. Usual run from the coupler to the base of the antenna is less than 18 inches. The leading edge is insulated from airframe all the way up to the top, where it is grounded to the airframe.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ May 01 2007,06:12)]Quote[/b] (WS2L @ May 01 2007,06:39)]I think that altitude of the antenna helped also, I would love to get on HF from 35,000 ft......even VHF
Forget that, I would like to get on VHF and UHF from orbit...

DXCC on 2m and 70cm easy... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
No problem. Got an extra $20 Million laying arount? You TOO can be a cosmonaut! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

BTW, THAT would be "VUCC" (VHF/UHF Century Club,) not just DXCC. Anybody can make DXCC. You could probably get 100 grids the first day, and 100 countries in less than a week.! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ May 01 2007,06:14)]SVD not a concern at all. Commercial, corporate and military basically use the same thing. In some earlier aircraft they used a wire (or 2 or 3 in the case of some C-130's) and the 618T-3/T-4. Newer ones use the later solid state ARC/HF-190 or 728U. Yes, 400W. Antenna usually the aircraft vertical stab leading edge. It is insulated from the airframe at the bottom and grounded at the top. Usual run from the coupler to the base of the antenna is less than 18 inches. The leading edge is insulated from airframe all the way up to the top, where it is grounded to the airframe.
Thanks for the explaination. Now it makes sense. (I was trying to figure out how a signal would get out of what would be one big "isotropic radiator" if the whole plane were the "antenna." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

BTW: This week, I've seen a B-17 flying around. No, not a hallucination. There's a "Wings of Freedom" tour of war birds with a stop-off in Long Beach this week. There's no mistaking the planes as they fly over. They're already in their landing pattern when they fly over. VERY impressive, indeed.

[W0LPQ]

NOTHING beats the sound of a radial ... unless it is 2 or 3 or 4 of them..!

Bill, W0LPQ/9

[KE4YGS]

My sis got to go for a ride in a B-24 and took a bunch of pictures.

http://www.ursinecom.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=559

Real airplanes have round engines.

73

[K9STH]

A few days ago I was out in the back yard and heard the sound of several radial engines. I looked up and a B-24 plus several P-51 fighters was flying at around 5000 feet.

Now B-17 bombers and P-51 fighters are not that unusual in this area but that was the first B-24 that I have seen in decades.

Glen, K9STH

[WA9SVD]

They supposedly have a B-24 and a B-25 in their tour as well as the B-17. I might have caught a glimpse of the '24, but the B-17 has been a regular this past week.
A static tour is $10; 30' flight is $425 for the B-17 or B-24 and $325-400 in the B-25.

[N2RJ]

I heard TEK today while driving to the park and ride, but propagation died before I had a chance to work him.

[KE4YGS]

For those old timers who might have it in their logs, W4EQE (SK) was a real life B-17 Pilot in WWII. #Look in your 40 Meter CW logs to start. #One heck of a good Engineer as well as a father and neighbor. His brother is the current W4EQE as a tribute.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 01 2007,03:52)]After consulting with the FCC, my squadron's chain of command and, finally, the aircraft commander that's running us around the world right now, I have gotten on HF while flying.
So, what kind of antenna ya runnin' there? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Any chance you'll be back on the air same time, same station tomorrow, Wednesday? I'll look for you on 20 Meters if you'll be out there.
have a safe flight(s.) Sounds like fun.

[kc2ten]

Yeah, 400 watts from the aircraft's HF radios and it loads up a portion of the skin, as I understood it. Loading the leading edge of the vertical stab makes more sense now.

I ended up working 50 stations from 1750 to 2124 zulu on/around 14.320 and ended up creating quite the pileup as we got close to the US coast.

It was quite the workout for my left index finger from working the mic switch all the time. The rest of the crew got a bit of a kick out of things, as it helped pass the time as we were going over the ocean.

I had a blast and look forward to doing it again whenever I've got the time on a long flight when there's nothing else to do.

And no, I will not be on the air tomorrow and wont know when I'll be on next. Mostly because our schedule is that fluid and because of opsec reasons.

Now I just need to find the time, motivation and creativity to make QSL cards for this activity.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 01 2007,18:54)]Now I just need to find the time, motivation and creativity to make QSL cards for this activity.
Or you can hire a QSL manager. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K4KWH]

We used to have personnel travelling to meetings, conferences and other Civil Air Patrol activities aboard USAF transport # We would start listening for the aircraft on the return trip so we could alert the Mom mobiles (Taxi) to come pick up the passengers. They'd use the A/C HF radio (not on Amateur frequencies) to call us. #Pretty good equipment those USAF boys got there! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif # Anyway, it was fun to gab with them and our own CAP folks aboard the aircraft. #
Another time, I followed a tanker from Panama all the way to Delaware. #Ran into him one morning. He stopped up near New Orleans (I think) for refuel. #Afternoon found him at Charleston AFB (20 meters). Next morning I talked to him again on 20 enroute up the coast.

73.

[K7KBN]

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ May 01 2007,05:58)]NOTHING beats the sound of a radial ... unless it is 2 or 3 or 4 of them..!

Bill, W0LPQ/9
OH yeah!

Or six. Ever hear the sound of a B-36 at cruising altitude? There used to be a squadron or two of them at Nellis AFB just north of Las Vegas. I'd go out to the air shows every year to watch the Thunderbirds and to see the B-36s up close.

They made the sweetest, most recognizable droning sound I ever heard. Once, when I was walking home from school (about 6th grade, as I recall) I heard that droning, but very faintly. Took a while, but I finally glimpsed the aircraft. Must have been pretty close to 30Kft up, but still recognizable.

I operated some from Navy A-3 aircraft back in the 60s. We had an experiment running, using RTTY on an aircraft transmitter, and when the tests for a particular mission were complete, I had the navigator crank in 14010. If it was clear, I'd call CQ. Didn't work much stateside, but just about everything else was usually open!

[WA9SVD]

Let us know the next time you're in the air... er, I mean on the air... Oh heck... You know what I mean!
(What kind of aircraft are you assigned to?)

[W0LPQ]

Pat I had forgotten the B-36 ... yes very unique sound indeed..! One that you don't forget either.!

Thanks for the memory..!

Bill, W0LPQ/9

[kc2ten]

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ May 03 2007,05:08)]Let us know the next time you're in the air... er, I mean on the air... Oh heck... You know what I mean!
(What kind of aircraft are you assigned to?)

I'm a boom operator on the KC-10 air refueling tanker. It's a modified DC-10-30.

I am responsible for the loading of cargo, passengers and the safety of them as well. However, our bread and butter is the air refueling and I fly the boom (fuel nozzle) into the receptacle on the receiver aircraft.

[kc2ten]

XC-99 @ Lackland AFB (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=san+antonio,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=29.374214,-98.58728&spn=0.002997,0.006781&t=h&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1)

The plane in the middle of the picture is the only example of an experimental cargo version of the B-36. Last time I was down there, I was told that they're trying to find a way to ship the thing up to Wright-Patterson AFB for the AF museum. Going to try and restore it, I hear.

[n8xth]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 03 2007,12:03)]XC-99 @ Lackland AFB (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=san+antonio,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=29.374214,-98.58728&spn=0.002997,0.006781&t=h&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1)

The plane in the middle of the picture is the only example of an experimental cargo version of the B-36. Last time I was down there, I was told that they're trying to find a way to ship the thing up to Wright-Patterson AFB for the AF museum. Going to try and restore it, I hear.
I love the museum at wright pat.

I could spend days and days there if I had the chance.

Thank you for your service TEK!

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 03 2007,11:57)]Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ May 03 2007,05:08)]Let us know the next time you're in the air... er, I mean on the air... Oh heck... #You know what I mean! #
(What kind of aircraft are you assigned to?)

I'm a boom operator on the KC-10 air refueling tanker. #It's a modified DC-10-30.

I am responsible for the loading of cargo, passengers and the safety of them as well. #However, our bread and butter is the air refueling and I fly the boom (fuel nozzle) into the receptacle on the receiver aircraft.
Ah, the KC-10! #I've had the privilege of going on a couple of those missions out of Seymour-Johnson when they had them there, early 90's. #Took a group of CAP cadets. #Did an emergency descent as part of the assignment (4000 feet per min). #Got some wide-eyed kids on that one as we made the descent back towards Seymour, a lot of "like............WOW", and "AWESOME"! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Been there and done that---even got the T-shirt that says "The Perfect 10"!

[kc7gnm]

You will enjoy it. I operated as YI/KC7GNM/AM back in 2003 just after we kicked Sadam's butt. I was flying in an E-8C Joint Stars at about 32,000 feet. The antennas for the 2 HF rigs on the jet are on the Right wing tip and the top leading edge of the Vertical Stab. Started out talking to some friends on 20m and was pretty clear until one of the guys suggested that he put me on a dx cluster and not even 20 sec after the floodgates opened. Go to this web address Rare DX Sound Clips (http://hamgallery.com/dx2003/) and scroll down to my callsign and you can hear the pileup I created.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 03 2007,12:03)]XC-99 @ Lackland AFB (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=san+antonio,+tx&ie=UTF8&ll=29.374214,-98.58728&spn=0.002997,0.006781&t=h&z=18&iwloc=addr&om=1)

The plane in the middle of the picture is the only example of an experimental cargo version of the B-36. Last time I was down there, I was told that they're trying to find a way to ship the thing up to Wright-Patterson AFB for the AF museum. Going to try and restore it, I hear.
Wasn't there also a "jet version" of the B-36? Seems to me there was at least a prototype, but can't come up with the "B" designation... I believe the B-47 made the '36 and other piston engine/prop-driven bombers extinct when the B-29's were all retired.
Anybody know if there's any B-29's that are still flightworthy? (NASA was probably the last to use them.)

[kc2ten]

Yeah, the Confederate Air Force flies one by the name of Fifi.

[kc2ten]

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ May 03 2007,16:25)]You will enjoy it. I operated as YI/KC7GNM/AM back in 2003 just after we kicked Sadam's butt. I was flying in an E-8C Joint Stars at about 32,000 feet. The antennas for the 2 HF rigs on the jet are on the Right wing tip and the top leading edge of the Vertical Stab. Started out talking to some friends on 20m and was pretty clear until one of the guys suggested that he put me on a dx cluster and not even 20 sec after the floodgates opened. Go to this web address Rare DX Sound Clips (http://hamgallery.com/dx2003/) and scroll down to my callsign and you can hear the pileup I created.
I cant bring myself to do any hamming while in the AOR, especially while flying. That's just too close to throwing the opsec rules right out the window.

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 04 2007,07:48)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ May 03 2007,16:25)]You will enjoy it. I operated as YI/KC7GNM/AM back in 2003 just after we kicked Sadam's butt. I was flying in an E-8C Joint Stars at about 32,000 feet. The antennas for the 2 HF rigs on the jet are on the Right wing tip and the top leading edge of the Vertical Stab. Started out talking to some friends on 20m and was pretty clear until one of the guys suggested that he put me on a dx cluster and not even 20 sec after the floodgates opened. Go to this web address Rare DX Sound Clips (http://hamgallery.com/dx2003/) and scroll down to my callsign and you can hear the pileup I created.
I cant bring myself to do any hamming while in the AOR, especially while flying. That's just too close to throwing the opsec rules right out the window.
Well I got permission from my commander and I never gave my location or the type of aircraft I was in at the time. Also never said what type of mission we were on either. No OPSEC rules were broken. Used to hear all kinds of AF guys calling the mars stations while in flight to get phone patches back home while over the AOR. We did it on Christmas day of 2001 and it was pretty cool for the whole crew to get a call back home. We only did this stuff when we were either en route to orbit or heading home. Never while the mission was going on. I suggest you ask your commander if you can do it. The only problem right now is all ham radio is suspended right now in Iraq so you would not be able to transmit from there now anyways. That includes flying over the country.

[kc2ten]

Ahh, well getting the lid put on all of it would nix that idea. We've attempted MARS calls while in that neck of the woods, but never could get anyone to respond.

Since I've just started the .mil hamming, I'm still kinda leary about what info I give. I asked my AC on the trip home, and he was cool with giving aircraft type and rough position, since we were just coming home from Europe, nothing secret squirrel or anything.

[kc7gnm]

Quote[/b] (KC5TEK @ May 04 2007,11:50)]Ahh, well getting the lid put on all of it would nix that idea. #We've attempted MARS calls while in that neck of the woods, but never could get anyone to respond. #

Since I've just started the .mil hamming, I'm still kinda leary about what info I give. #I asked my AC on the trip home, and he was cool with giving aircraft type and rough position, since we were just coming home from Europe, nothing secret squirrel or anything.
That is strange. We had no problem getting AF MARS to respond to calls. It was Army MARS where I had problems when I was deployed to Albania for task force Hawk during the Kosovo conflict. The Heidelberg Gateway would never be there for me to send traffic so I gave up on Army Mars after that. BTW I was in the Army for 20 years and flew with JStars my last 5 years before I retired.

[kc2ten]

Yeah, it puzzled me as well. We were over the Med and tried for about five to ten minutes without success. Oh well. Maybe noone was awake that late at night.

[KW5BG]

When I was flying B-52s in the mid-80s I would check into a net during night training sorties. #Always gave the occasional check-ins something to talk about. #Of course, I was the aircraft commander or IP! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif