COMPUTER PROBLEM

[K5RCD]

I use a laptop to run Ham Radio Deluxe, Mix W and a few other ham related applications. A problem I have been having lately is that whenever I turn the PC completely off (like when a storm is coming) it takes forever to start a program when I start it back up. It boots up to the screen with all the icons on it quickly, but when I try to open any program, nothing happens when I click on a program icon. Later, after maybe 15 minutes or so, the program(s) I clicked on will open up just like normal. I figure something must be going on behind the scene at start up but don't know where to go to analyze and correct the problem. I am running Windows XP and am not short on RAM or hard drive capacity so far as I can tell. I tried a system restore, but no joy. Any ideas ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[WA4ILH]

What virus protection program are you running? Try disabling that briefly to see if it slowing down your startup.
Tom WA4ILH

[WB7DMX]

another thing that can slow it down is if the laptop has any networking set up on it and its not connected a network at the time of your problem, xp will keep looking for this network, also it could be creating a restore point or checking something.
there are several things that could cause this symptom, depending on what software is installed and what all you may have running in the background.

[KL7AJ]

Get a good registry cleaner...they can do wonders.

The first time I did it, I had 1500 invalid entries...and that was on a NEW XP install!

Bless you, Bill Gates

eric

[K5RCD]

Quote[/b] (wa4ilh @ April 25 2007,17:25)]What virus protection program are you running? #Try disabling that #briefly to see if it slowing down your startup.
Tom WA4ILH
Thanks:

I am running Norton anti virus.

I disabled it as suggested and shut down the computer. When I restarted it everything opened as it should, so obviously the problem is with Norton.

When I clicked on the Norton icon to try to turn the virus protection back on, it would not open and is just hanging. I imagine it will open up the Norton window after a while.

Should I completely remove the existing Norton program before trying to reinstall it (it is current and I have the CD) or just insert the CD and try to overwrite it (and then download all updates) ? Or is there a better suggestion ?

I really would like to stay with Norton since I am familiar with it and use it on my desktop too. I have never contacted a virus while using Norton so I have confidence in it overall (except for this problem).

Also, what registry cleaner do y'all recommend ?

Note: I am having no networking problems, my wireless Linksys router system is working properly so it appears Norton is the culprit. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KC7UP]

Norton is famous for problems with computers. For anti virus try free avast.
Curt

[K4AVL]

I've used Eusing registry cleaner (free) and it seems to work quite well.
http://www.eusing.com/free_registry_cleaner/registry_cleaner.htm
For antivirus, I use AVG free, rather than a commercial app.
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1

[KC4RAN]

I can't tell you how many computers I've seen cratered by Norton software. The latest iteration of their crud I encountered when my wife's best friend upgraded her legit last-year's Norton antivirus with this year's.

Six hours later... we reinstalled XP.


Yes, it is truly that bad.

[K7FE]

Moved to the more appropriate forum.

Terry, K7FE

[W5HTW]

I agree with others about Norton AV. Back in the days of Windows 3.0, it worked quite well. Hasn't worked well since, and I have tossed it totally after several computers with Win 95, 98, ME, 2000. Never tried it with Win XP

Likewise, found McAfee, though much better than Norton, let stuff through that it should not.

I use Grisoft AVG. Used the free version for a while, but found some featuers about the purchased version that I like, so bought it. It is not expensive, runs without you paying any attention to it, boots fast. I just bought it again for another two years.

It is also wise to use something besides the Microsoft registry repair applications. There is a program called "Registry Cleaner" and you can find it on RegistryOptimizer.com. This one is great. There are others, but this one I have found to be easy, fast, and with a lot of configurations.

Also run AdAware and Spybot fairly often.

Ed

[N3ATS]

Likewise with Norton. I installed it on my wife's laptop and it slowed it to a crawl. I had to uninstall it.

Being new at the office, I was given a spare PC to use until everything is sorted out. The PC was so slow it was barely usable. So I called the IT dude over and he discovered that Norton was using 100% of the processor doing a system-wide scan.

Norton sucks.

[KD6NIG]

Are your running the laptop corded or uncorded? Some of them slow down when on battery power also.

But norton is pretty bad. Especially when it initiates that scan on its own. Or when its getting updates.

I use AVG antivirus, personally. Doesn't seem to do this unless you tell it to scan, which of course will cause some use.

[KB8CPR]

Quote[/b] (kl7aj @ April 25 2007,15:43)]Get a good registry cleaner...they can do wonders.

The first time I did it, I had 1500 invalid entries...and that was on a NEW XP install!

Bless you, Bill Gates

eric
Registry cleaners don’t do “wonders”, they’re the "snake oil" of our generation. Invalid keys have no appreciable impact on performance.

Removing dead end, or invalid keys from the registry is the equivalent of cleaning out every last little scrap from a dumpster once the garbage truck has emptied it: it's a waste of time and serves no useful purpose.

There is no such thing as a good "Registry Cleaner", they are useless at best & dangerous at worst.

There are many things that can slow a system, but a “bloated registry” is not one of them. In your case, remove Norton Antivirus & replace it with Avast! Antivirus. Look at programs that are running at startup & processes running in the background.

~Dave
KB8CPR

[KC9ECI]

I have to agree with Dave, registry cleaners are bad voodoo and should be avoided at all costs. #If you try a lot of software and are frequently adding and removing programs and you're worried about your registry, the best thing you can do is re-install the OS. #It's a pain, but it's going to give you the best results.

[KJ3N]

Another vote for AVG.

Norton sucks worse than a Black Hole. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[W4MAJ]

When all else fails, it might be a hardware issue. I had to replace my laptop's hard drive last month. It was exhibiting problems like what you described.

Once I did that *poof* everything was factory fresh again. Of course I spent the rest of the day installing software.

These guys (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ThirdCategoryList.jsp?SecondCategoryCode=1109) are pretty good.

[WA9SVD]

Hmmm. Never had a problem with S'norton (Symantec/Norton) AV, Win3.1 up through XP if it was configured properly. Some of the defaults DO suck, however.
The program may somehow be configured to do a full scan at boot-up, which is certainly not necessary, but can cause a LONG delay in launching programs.
If necessary, though, REMOVE the program before trying to re-install it. Don't just try to do a new install over the old. (And re-boot after removal and before a reinstall.)

[WC5CW]

Randy, (et al)...

First, agree with some others about some anti-virus programs...Norton, Panda and to some extent McAfee are operationally intrusive and tax your computer's memory and resources when they are running...AVG (a freebee) and Trend-Micro PC-Cillin seem to be--from my experience--much less intrusive and "lighter" on your system's resources...Also agree about the so-called registry cleaners...They do pretty much nothing of benefit and can sometimes corrupt some valid paths or instruction sets for some programs you have installed.

Second, you may be loading too many applications that you do not need at start-up...Go to START, RUN and enter "msconfig" in the dialog box...When the box appears, go to the far right header tab STARTUP and uncheck everything pertaining to applications that you don't need loaded and processes that you don't need running...Leave all boxes checked that pertain to your anti-virus and anti-spy programs...Click OKAY, return to the GENERAL tab and you will see a "dot" in the "Selective Startup" button...Click APPLY, OKAY and restart your computer...A dialogue box will appear at start-up indicating you have chosen "Selective Startup" ...Put a check-mark in the "Don't show me this..." box...You're done...You should witness a considerably faster boot time.

Third, routinely run Disc Clean-up and Disc Defrag utilities...They are located in START, PROGRAMS, ACCESSORIES, SYSTEM TOOLS...First run the Disc Clean-up utility with checked boxes in appropriate selections... Then for a complete degfrag, disconnect from your network, exit all applications and anti-virus and ant-spy programs (Your taskbar window at the lower right should be empty except for the "volume" control button and the clock face) before you begin the actual disc defragmenting process.

FWIW

Bruce
WC5CW

[AG3Y]

I have two computers that I use regularly, one running Win98 SE, and the other, XP. I use the Norton suite and haven't seen any problems that I can identify as being caused by the Norton program!

I can switch off parts or all of the program, and aside from some indexing that takes place in the first minute or so of operation, I see no difference in my applications.

One thing I may be noticing, however, is that if you try to run high-resolution video and sound on the internet, such as Google streaming video, the 450 Mhz Win98 machine "hiccups" in the sound and video. I suspect that I am running at the limit of CPU abilities even without the downstream virus scanning, so I get the momentary pauses. I would expect them in any case, and it doesn't happen on the much more powerful XP machine. ( more RAM, Faster Video Card, Diff. operating system, etc. etc. )

Run a utility that charts the use of your system resources, and you should be able to see exactly what is hogging which resources!

73, Jim

[KB8CPR]

Seriously; Norton & McAfee are both so bad, they should be considered "Mal-Ware". I am in the computer support business & work on literally hundreds of PC's. At best they're performance killers, at worst they will cause you issues that will require a system restore. I used to like Symantec Antivirus, their corporate a/v solution, but even it has become bloated & problematic in recent versions.

Many people like the free version of AVG, but it's detection rate is not as good as the also free version of Avast! antivirus, BOTH of which detected more viruses in at least one study (http://www.virus.gr/english/fullxml/default.asp?id=82&mnu=82) than Norton.

~Dave

[K5RCD]

Thanks to all.

I am now convinced to switch from Norton.

I will probably go with Avast or AVG, but not the free versions because I want the firewall protection. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[PA5COR]

Use Zonalarm pro for your firewall, free as well.

Not used Norton since W 98, the only thing that workes still flawlessly is Norton Commander.

Keep it out of nostalgia on the puter here.

73,

Cor

[KB8CPR]

Quote[/b] (k5rcd @ April 26 2007,15:38)]Thanks to all.

I am now convinced to switch from Norton.

I will probably go with Avast or AVG, but not the free versions because I want the firewall protection. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
OK, I have to be the "contrarian" again http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Software firewalls are not necessary for most users. #If you have high-speed Internet, you should use a router doing NAT (http://www.cable-modems.org/articles/internet_sharing/software_firewall.htm) (Network Address Translation) & have the Windows XP Firewall turned on. #These 2 things together with common sense computing are all the protection you need.

Software firewalls are difficult to configure & in most installations are simply providing a false sense of security. #They have significant performance overhead & offer little benefit in return for the performance hit they cause. #I’m not the only one who feels this way by the way; this view is the norm in the computer support industry. #Many computer users look to computer magazines & Internet newsletters for advice on issues of this nature. #The problem is that the writers of these articles are "writers" first & computer “experts” second. #Their job is to review & recommend products that they have little personal experience with, so they depend heavily on the statements of the software publisher. #In-other-words, their job is to hawk new products. #

So, k5rcd, my “expert” recommendation is to go with the free version of Avast, or AVG, with Avast being my first choice, or if you simply must pay for an antivirus, get Kaspersky (http://www.kaspersky.com/), arguably the best antivirus available for purchase. #Do not use a software firewall; instead be SURE you have a router, even if you only have one PC connected to your High Speed Internet.

There’s an excellent forum where these types of issues are frequently discussed, called the Ars Technica OpenForums (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums). #The particular sub-forum where you will find discussions on desktop issues is the Microsoft OS & Software Colloquium (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/99609816) (Ars uses a Greek theme for naming forums & titles, hence the use of the word “Colloquium” http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

If you absolutely must use a software firewall (not recommended), use ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonealarm.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_za.jsp) as PA5COR mentioned. #(The free version is just ZoneAlarm basic, ZoneAlarm “Pro” is for purchase). #I have to reiterate that this is NOT necessary for most users & will simply complicate your computing experience without offering any appreciable benefit.

~Dave
KB8CPR
Support Analyst, Information Technology

[M0DSZ]

Respondents have answered most of your questions but just check to see what runs at startup. Software such as StartupList or PrcView will give you a clue and I think MSConfig will enable you to stop anything automatically running. I edit the registry directly instead but that could be dangerous.
I agree about Norton being useless and the free AVG antivirus is not particularly good, I use Eset's NOD32 (paid for) and AntiVir (eventually requires payment) is effective as well.
I also agree not to bother with a firewall if you have a NAT router AND not to use a registry cleaner because they are somewhat imperfect. I have used one but always edit what it thinks I don't need.

[n1ydx]

First of all, a slow boot-up could be caused by problems YOU have caused.

1st. When you install a program, make sure it is a custom install if allowed. DO NOT let the programs install their own 'let me connect to the internet to check for updates.'

2nd. Don't let programs like Norton System Works ( worst offender ) run automatically at startup. It uses all your system resources until it finishes it's scan of your equipment.

3rd. Clean up ' Start Up' programs by clicking 'Start / Run / and in the box type ' msconfig ' without the quotes and click the ' Startup ' tab on the far right.

You'll see all the programs that START UP when you boot your computer. HP Printers install numberous files to check the internet for 'updates' as does 'Symantec & their Norton Products ', as does 'AIM' or 'Messenger' or 'Google' and a host of others you unintentionally let install ' START UP ' programs when you installed them.

I had to call Symantec to get the ' true ' uninstaller for Norton System Works to get it off my system. Then I just installed the Norton Anti-Virus which I trust and have used for years. The rest of their crapola was a waste of my money and I will never use them again.

Most programs will put a 'startup' teaser in your boot up to make it easier for you to run that program. Well, stop the teasers from running and just click on the program in your 'Programs' to get them to work. I don't need them running in the background, hogging up my memory and system resources.

OK - Rant ended. I clean up folks computers and they can't believe the increase in speed when the 'run at start up bits and pieces are removed.'

* I don't need HP running in the background to check if my printer/scanner/copier needs new files. I can check for myself on the internet when I feel like it.

N1YDX - Lee

[K5RCD]

Thanks to everyone for your help.

I removed Norton and installed Avast free antivirus.

Turned on Windows Firewall.

Cleaned out Startup Programs.

Everything is running OK now.

Note: My system of 2 PCs is linked by a #Linksys WRT54G wireless router which has always worked well for me. I presume that is a NAT router as mentioned by M0DSZ. ? ?

My high speed internet is provided by WildBlue satellite internet. I leave it on 24/7 except during the rare storms here in south Texas. I have been completely satisfied with the service from WildBlue. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[M0DSZ]

Quote[/b] (k5rcd @ May 01 2007,08:46)]My system of 2 PCs is linked by a Linksys WRT54G wireless router which has always worked well for me. I presume that is a NAT router as mentioned by M0DSZ. ? ?
Yes, your router is widely advertised as a DHCP and NAT router. The idea is that only your router can be seen from the Internet, not your PC (or PCs). This way Viruses and Trojans can only arrive when downloading. (Doubtless, hackers have been working on this). This is another good reason for not allowing automatic updates as already indicated by N1YDX.
Have a look at "ShieldsUp" to see how safe your system is.

http://www.grc.com/default.htm

(Sorry I couldn't seem to paste the link in directly, you'll have to copy and paste it into your browser).

[KC2RPP]

ok
1.)i have had no problem with norton used it for 6 years.
2.)Defragment ur hard drive
3.)Run Disk Cleanup
4.) Get a free ad-aware program like Ad-Aware 2007 and run it.
5.)Also get a program to check for spyware