View Full Version : Turning knob clockwise....
GM3ZMA
04-06-2007, 01:58 PM
Inspired by KE5FRFs post, I have a serious question.
OK it is accepted that turning the AF gain and the RF gain in a clockwise direction results in more noise out of the speaker.
But, what about the squelch control as found on the average FM VHF/UHF equipment.
When I started playing with FM (and AM before that) using ex-commercial service equipment, the squelch control silenced the speaker when turned anti-clockwise.
To me this seems to be a logical ergonomic way to operate, turning it clockwise makes more noise.
However, most amateur and CB equipment have the squelch control operating so that turning the control clockwise silences the noise.
I could justify this by thinking that clockwise movement raises the squlch gate threshold, which is logical, but to me the overall effect is un-ergonomic and counter intuitive.
What is your opinion?
Jim GM3ZMA
KC9JIQ
04-06-2007, 02:04 PM
and exactly what is the proper way to set squelch?
I've always turned the RF gain all the way up, and then squelch out the noise, but I have also heard you can turn the RF gain down until the squelch threshold, which is the correct way?
Squelch controls work clockwise to engage the squelch. But either way, fully one way there is noise and the other way there is quiet.
On setting the squelch.... get your rig set the way you want it with RF and Audio and then turn up the squelch until it just quiets the receiver audio with nobody talking.
N8CPA
04-06-2007, 02:09 PM
Talk about counter-intuitive! I had an HT on time that used the same knob for AF gain and Squelch. You would set the squelch by pressing a button, then turning the AF gain. Release the button to adjust AF.
I will never buy that brand again. I won't even name it, lest all publicity is promotion.
Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ April 06 2007,02:09)]Talk about counter-intuitive!
And the clear winner in this category is Bill Gates' line of operating systems where you have to click Start in order to turn your computer off!
Scott NĜIU
WA9SVD
04-06-2007, 02:30 PM
Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ April 06 2007,07:09)]Talk about counter-intuitive!
Sorta like having to go to the "START" button to shut down Windoze? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KE5FRF
04-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Quote[/b] (GM3ZMA @ April 06 2007,08:58)]Inspired by KE5FRFs post, I have a serious question.
OK it is accepted that turning the AF gain and the RF gain in a clockwise direction results in more noise out of the speaker.
But, what about the squelch control as found on the average FM VHF/UHF equipment.
When I started playing with FM (and AM before that) using ex-commercial service equipment, the squelch control silenced the speaker when turned anti-clockwise.
To me this seems to be a logical ergonomic way to operate, turning it clockwise makes more noise.
However, most amateur and CB equipment have the squelch control operating so that turning the control clockwise silences the noise.
I could justify this by thinking that clockwise movement raises the squlch gate threshold, which is logical, but to me the overall effect is un-ergonomic and counter intuitive.
What is your opinion?
Jim GM3ZMA
I am honored that my sarcasm was the source of inspiration for you, OM. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
GM3ZMA
04-06-2007, 02:46 PM
Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ April 06 2007,07:40)]Quote[/b] (GM3ZMA @ April 06 2007,08:58)]Inspired by KE5FRFs post, I have a serious question.
OK it is accepted that turning the AF gain and the RF gain in a clockwise direction results in more noise out of the speaker.
But, what about the squelch control as found on the average FM VHF/UHF equipment.
When I started playing with FM (and AM before that) using ex-commercial service equipment, the squelch control silenced the speaker when turned anti-clockwise.
To me this seems to be a logical ergonomic way to operate, turning it clockwise makes more noise.
However, most amateur and CB equipment have the squelch control operating so that turning the control clockwise silences the noise.
I could justify this by thinking that clockwise movement raises the squlch gate threshold, which is logical, but to me the overall effect is un-ergonomic and counter intuitive.
What is your opinion?
Jim GM3ZMA
I am honored that my sarcasm was the source of inspiration for you, OM. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It is one of those things which has bugged me for years, your post just brought the topic to mind and so I thought I would ask for opinions here.
Jim GM3ZMA
KA4DPO
04-06-2007, 02:57 PM
Everyone knows CBers are backwards.
ai4ep
04-06-2007, 03:29 PM
If memory serves me correctly the old CB rigs WHITE / BLACK face Johnson had their squelch knobs backwards to every one else...along with the HY-GAIN 23 channel rigs.....it may not have been all the HY-GAIN models, but a couple that I had were like that...way back when I messed with cb rigs.
Of course I think now a days folks turn the VOLUME knob up, thinking they will be heard better with it turned fully clockwise.
Who knows what folks will think of next to try to fool others ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ April 06 2007,08:29)]If memory serves me correctly the old CB rigs WHITE / BLACK face Johnson had their squelch knobs backwards to every one else...along with the HY-GAIN 23 channel rigs.....it may not have been all the HY-GAIN models, but a couple that I had were like that...way back when I messed with cb rigs.
Of course I think now a days folks turn the VOLUME knob up, thinking they will be heard better with it turned fully clockwise.
Who knows what folks will think of next to try to fool others ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Ebony and Ivory,
Live together on my Johnson
So whay can't we?
VE7NOT
04-06-2007, 04:57 PM
I have noticed that. A year ago I had a Bearcat scanner (30a or something) and the squelch worked counter-clockwise. It confused me for a few minutes http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Most other radios cb/ham/marine vhf etc I have always seen a clockwise squelch.
KF0RT
04-06-2007, 05:23 PM
All's I know is that Greg wouldn't get so much static on 75 meters if he'd just use his squelch more.
73, Rob
Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ April 06 2007,12:50)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ April 06 2007,08:29)]If memory serves me correctly the old CB rigs WHITE / BLACK face Johnson had their squelch knobs backwards to every one else...along with the HY-GAIN 23 channel rigs.....it may not have been all the HY-GAIN models, but a couple that I had were like that...way back when I messed with cb rigs.
Of course I think now a days folks turn the VOLUME knob up, thinking they will be heard better with it turned fully clockwise.
Who knows what folks will think of next to try to fool others ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Ebony and Ivory,
Live together on my Johnson
So whay can't we?
But is it a MAGIC Johnson?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
N8CPA
04-06-2007, 06:29 PM
Ya c'n call it---
Ya c'n call it--
Ya c'n call it--
But ya duzn't has to call it Johnson.
[Obscure comedy reference]
Quote[/b] (GM3ZMA @ April 06 2007,06:58)]OK it is accepted that turning the AF gain and the RF gain in a clockwise direction results in more noise out of the speaker.
But, what about the squelch control as found on the average FM VHF/UHF equipment.
The squelch control doesn't turn the volume down. All it does is set a floor in the AF gain below which audio will be turned off altogether. Thus, the squelch setting really should track the AF gain setting. If both are on a scale to 10, and you want everything below an "AF gain" of 3 to be ignored, your set the squelch to 3. Of course, they don't line up like that. But as you turn the squelch knob to the right, you are indeed increasing the threshold over which AF gain must pass before opening up the audio.
Rick "who thinks it makes sense like it is, but who would probably get used to it the other way" Denney
K9STH
04-06-2007, 08:43 PM
Most brands of radios use a clockwise rotation of the squelch control to mute the receiver. However, there are number of examples in both amateur radio and commercial radio that work the other way. That is turning the squelch knob clockwise unmutes the receiver.
What has always been the "standard" procedure in the commercial two-way radio market is to advance the squelch control to the point where it just mutes the receiver. Then advance it about 5 degrees past that point so that the receiver stays muted on noise bursts.
Glen, K9STH
W1GUH
04-06-2007, 09:33 PM
So there are backwards squelch's?
How 'bout upside-down light switches? Y'know, the light goes "on" when the switch is "down?"
Sorta funny story about that. Years ago I worked at Bendix designing test sets. A guy I worked with noticed on his interview tour of the work areas that all the power switches on the test sets were upside down. He mentioned to the guy he was interviewing with that "Somebody got the switches all wrong."
As it turned out, the switches were upside down because the gentleman who designed the test sets (and was interviewing my friend) was British! Denny had a pretty red face. He got the job.
W4HAY
04-07-2007, 01:46 PM
Getting used to the combined 'RF/SQL' control on my IC-746 took a little while... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Ever used a BC-348? There's a single 'VOLUME' control that varies RF gain when on CW and AF gain when on AM. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif