View Full Version : SCHUMER: 1.8 Million Could Face Foreclosure
Quote[/b] ]"These mortgage brokers prey on people who often are not sophisticated in terms of homebuying," Schumer said Sunday. "It's just despicable because these are people who are putting all their hopes and dreams into a home and then they lose it."
Subprime lenders offer mortgages that often require no down payment and are made at low "teaser" rates that balloon after a few years. They target borrowers with low incomes or tarnished credit histories who otherwise might not qualify for a loan.
Schumer said an analysis by his office found that an estimated 1.8 million American families -- including 23,000 in New York City and 19,000 in Nassau and Suffolk counties -- could face foreclosure within the next two years when their subprime loan rates spike.
And this affects all homeowners. With so many homes on the market (the banks don't need them), the prices of homes will drop until the glut is over...
* BUBBLE BURST LINK * (http://www.amny.com/news/politics/ny-nyschumer0326,0,1983467.story)
Don't worry about those homes. The billionaires (Trump, Buffett, etc.) will buy them up and rent them back to the people who lost them. That is the plan for America. Turn us all into renters.
What's interesting is historically, looking at smaller countries, home ownership has been a very strong glue that maintains order, keeps people working, and generally makes people behave. I really doubt this nation's leaders want that anymore. They seem to love a good fight and taunt people into it. Cops "love" to shoot people and throw them in jail. Nothing spoils their day more than a bunch of law abiding citizens going about their business.
Remember the abortion protests of the 80's? You want to know what stopped all of that? NARAL started suing picketers and putting liens on their homes. That stopped it faster than antilock brakes. Take away the homes and all people have left is their cars. Those will go next, so what then? People will have nothing to lose. I predict a very strong upswing in antisocial behavior on a grander scale than we've seen before.
KW4MW
03-29-2007, 12:51 AM
It's awfully easy and liberally chic to blame the greedy bankers. #The last persons that we would ever want to blame for this are all of the stupid arseholes who signed the mortgage contract without bothering to read it or understanding the possible consequences. #
Yes, let's all jump upon the Schumer Tumor bandwagon, ride into town and pick off a few fat, rich, greedy bankers. # By all means lets get Congress into an uproar and find out first hand just why in the Hell the bankers just didn't hand over the keys to the houses and say "Here Kiddies, have fun".
By all means let's not bring up the fact that there is a large percentage of our population that has been brought up to believe that they aren't responsible for their own actions and should anything go amiss in their lives they know that all they have to do is go running to Mama Fed and she'll kiss it and make it all better. #
Surely we can't even touch upon the fact that these people are probably too ignorant or lazy to read a mortgage contract or to understand even the basics of financial agreements. #After all, there are much more important things in life most of which can be seen on ESPN. #
Of course it affects all homeowners - so what is new with that? #Indeed with foreclosed homes glutting the market, the prices of marketable homes will spiral downward. #That's only part of the equation. #The other part is that those of us that work hard and are financially solvent are going to be soaked with taxes to finance a recovery bill for those losers (you really didn't think the bank was going to take it in the poop chute didya?)
Quote[/b] ]With so many homes on the market (the banks don't need them), the prices of homes will drop until the glut is over...
depends on the market.
in north central indiana, you didn't get the real estate appreciation rates that invited flippers and speculators.
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Mar. 28 2007,09:54)]And this affects all homeowners. #With so many homes on the market (the banks don't need them), the prices of homes will drop until the glut is over...
* BUBBLE BURST LINK * (http://www.amny.com/news/politics/ny-nyschumer0326,0,1983467.story)
Chuckie Cheese is the one affecting homeowners. What ever happened to let the market decide. Oh Yes, I forgot New York Shumer knows what is good for me!
K8MHZ
03-29-2007, 02:57 AM
Wait a minute...
Our economy is doing GREAT. #Just ask the cons. #1.8 million homeowners going belly up? #So what. #The economy is doing GREAT.
GREAT.
GREAT.
GREAT.
Just keep repeating that. #1.8 million times. #That will make it true.
Well, actually, if you are a billionaire.
The economy is doing GREAT!
GREAT!
GREAT!
GREAT!
K8MHZ
03-29-2007, 02:58 AM
The above translated:
"Let them eat cake."
Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Mar. 28 2007,13:58)]The above translated:
"Let them eat cake."
They have already had their cake, now it is time to pay the piper.
Quote[/b] (W5JO @ Mar. 28 2007,14:01)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Mar. 28 2007,13:58)]The above translated:
"Let them eat cake."
They have already had their cake, now it is time to pay the piper.
There, by the grace of God, I go.
Quote[/b] (n9xr @ Mar. 27 2007,21:14)]Quote[/b] (W5JO @ Mar. 28 2007,14:01)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Mar. 28 2007,13:58)]The above translated:
"Let them eat cake."
They have already had their cake, now it is time to pay the piper.
There, by the grace of God, I go.
HAH! I mean ooops, can I have a glass of milk with that?
W1GUH
03-29-2007, 05:54 AM
Well, to all the people who think that, "Well, they signed the papers..they have to live with the consequences."
WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG....
They signed those papers because of the VERY STRONG "American Dream" that "If you're a homeowner, you rule."
That's a VERY STRONG ethic in America.
The people who signed for mortgages they eventually couldn't afford were DUPED by predatory AH's that shoud rot in hell. The jerks that sold them a bill of goods knew VERY WELL that the poor folk who believed their lies would eventually face foreclosure. And now they do.
This is ronnie, w, and neo-conism at it's most predatory and most nasty against Americans.
They exploited the American Dream to a despicable degree, and none of us should give anyone who cares a pass to the predatory, nasty individuals who promulgated those awful mortgages. Shame on them. That's NOT America.
People don't seem to care anymore about a strong work ethic or exhanging value for received value. It is a general decay that hurts deeply for it is amongst our neighbors.
I am sad that it has come to the point where business interests simply find innovative ways to dupe the weak, and I am sad that the defenders of this do not realize that they or someone dear to them will be the weak, eventually.
It does not serve society and it is not a staple of the "free market" to engage in predatory and deceptive economic exchanges. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Quote[/b] (al2i @ Mar. 28 2007,19:23)]I am sad that it has come to the point where business interests simply find innovative ways to dupe the weak, and I am sad that the defenders of this do not realize that they or someone dear to them will be the weak, eventually.
Unfortunately, this is nothing new in our society. Not that many years ago one had to have 20% of the purchase price for a down payment or you could not get a loan. That all started changing in the 60s. About the time history began for many people.
KD6NIG
03-29-2007, 02:42 PM
Thats right, you can own a $500,000 house with only a 25k a year income!
Somewhere, common sense has to tell you that there is no way in heck that will fly.
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Mar. 29 2007,09:42)]Thats right, you can own a $500,000 house with only a 25k a year income!
Somewhere, common sense has to tell you that there is no way in heck that will fly.
Exactly!!!
"But, but, but.....I should be able to buy a $500,000 dollar mini-mansion on $50K income"! Just stupid!
No more than 30% of your combined family income should go to the mortgage payment. That means for a $50K combined income, don't buy more house than you can get with a $1250 monthly payment on a 30 year mortgage.
No adjustable rates, no "interest only", none of that silly crap.
All those who are saying the economy is 'GREAT' are whistling in the dark. This will tighten lending and when interest rates should go down to help a struggling economy, they will go up strangling any future growth. Blame the lender, but those companies had more experience than any lender had and they loaned out the money.
And a lot of those lenders are already on the ropes with their changing the credit card laws a few years back. Seems that many can't pay the new higher minimum payments and are defualting there too. I met one bank VP who told me that his major bank is just looking for someone to buy their credit dept. before it goes belly up... so lending and some banking institutions are in worse shape than the lenders. Another case of letting the fat kid have all the cake he wants. Now, golly gee! He's choking to death! Duh.
And those who own homes, expect a decrease in value of at least 15%. Of course, your taxes will go down a lot slower than the value of your home. The assessor will just take his time getting a round tuit.
Make this as partisian as you want. Reality will still bite.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KD6NIG
03-29-2007, 04:53 PM
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Mar. 29 2007,08:57)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Mar. 29 2007,09:42)]Thats right, you can own a $500,000 house with only a 25k a year income!
Somewhere, common sense has to tell you that there is no way in heck that will fly.
Exactly!!!
"But, but, but.....I should be able to buy a $500,000 dollar mini-mansion on $50K income"! Just stupid!
No more than 30% of your combined family income should go to the mortgage payment. That means for a $50K combined income, don't buy more house than you can get with a $1250 monthly payment on a 30 year mortgage.
No adjustable rates, no "interest only", none of that silly crap.
Yeah and don't forget things like:
-Insurance
-Property Tax
-Maintance
Many of the people caught up in the boom were used to renting. Where you didn't worry about insurance (cept for renters) you only paid taxes to the state and IRS, and if the toilet broke, you called your landlord.
They sign on for a home loan for $1500 a month and then realize the actual figure (assuming they put away enough per month to pay the property tax) is more like $2000.
Plus, most people want to retire at age 67 or so. Then, at age 55, they decide to refi the house, take all the cash out of it, and restart a 30 year note. How can you retire at age 67 with 18 years left on your note?
Or these people who run up credit cards and just refi every year, take cash out, pay them off, and start over. I know one of these. They tried to refi and suddenly the house lost value. 3 weeks later a letter comes in the mail saying that the difference between the value now and the amount you still owe on the loan is $5000, oh, and with the paperwork you signed, we need that 5 grand within 3 months.......
Ouch.
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Mar. 29 2007,10:57)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Mar. 29 2007,09:42)]Thats right, you can own a $500,000 house with only a 25k a year income!
Somewhere, common sense has to tell you that there is no way in heck that will fly.
Exactly!!!
"But, but, but.....I should be able to buy a $500,000 dollar mini-mansion on $50K income"! Just stupid!
No more than 30% of your combined family income should go to the mortgage payment. That means for a $50K combined income, don't buy more house than you can get with a $1250 monthly payment on a 30 year mortgage.
No adjustable rates, no "interest only", none of that silly crap.
The problem comes when nearly all homes a reasonable distance from work except horror movie sets are priced out of your range.
So either you rent, move, get a higher paying job or commit suicide.
Quote[/b] ]The problem comes when nearly all homes a reasonable distance from work except horror movie sets are priced out of your range.
So either you rent, move, get a higher paying job or commit suicide.
Yep, and if enough people rent or move the prices for housing in an area will fall. If people used a little common sense and only bought housing they could honestly afford we wouldn't have ridiculously priced housing ala California. Supply and demand still apply to the housing market.
Derivative mortgages are only for those people interested in speculating in the real estate market. If people feel like gambling with the roof over their head more power too them. Just don't whine when it backfires.
n0jaa
03-29-2007, 07:37 PM
Quote[/b] (NC5P @ Mar. 28 2007,19:23)]Remember the abortion protests of the 80's? #You want to know what stopped all of that? #NARAL started suing picketers and putting liens on their homes. #That stopped it faster than antilock brakes. #Take away the homes and all people have left is their cars. #Those will go next, so what then? #People will have nothing to lose. #I predict a very strong upswing in antisocial behavior on a grander scale than we've seen before.
Yep, this is how revolutions get started. Oppressive government tyranny that prohibits people from exercising their Constitutional rights. It's already happening. Eventually people will get so fed up that they'll start rioting, and a revolution will break out.
Someone once said (don't remember who), "A little revolution now and then is a good thing."
n4sva
03-29-2007, 07:47 PM
Sounds like Chuckie Schumer is saying "Let's make it illegal to make a mortgage to stupid people"
Most mortgages with less that 20% of equity down require private mortgage insurance anyway, so if the borrower defaults, the banks are covered.
Secondly, there is a clear "Truth-in-Lending" act form with each mortgage that clearly states what the montly will be inclusive of property taxes, PMI, property insurance, etc." so there are no excuses of anyone being "suckered" in these mortgages.
Sounds to me like we just have 1.8 million deadbeats.
n2ize
03-29-2007, 08:01 PM
Quote[/b] (n4sva @ Mar. 29 2007,12:47)]Sounds like Chuckie Schumer is saying "Let's make it illegal to make a mortgage to stupid people"
Most mortgages with less that 20% of equity down require private mortgage insurance anyway, so if the borrower defaults, the banks are covered.
Secondly, there is a clear "Truth-in-Lending" act form with each mortgage that clearly states what the montly will be inclusive of property taxes, PMI, property insurance, etc." so there are no excuses of anyone being "suckered" in these mortgages.
Sounds to me like we just have 1.8 million deadbeats.
Well, obviously the clear truth in lending act didn't assure enough clear truth to prevent predatory brokers to swindle people.
The bottom line is that many people are not that well versed in understanding finance. You get some predatory financier
who is unscrupulous and well versed in his trade/profession. Unfortunately such people sometimes use their knowledge and skills in ways that are deceptive. The bottom line is that those who are not as knowledgeable and are eager to get that new home often fall victim to these deceptors.
This is true of unscrupulous swindlers in any profession. In the old days a crooked TV repairman could turn a 12 cent resistor into a picture tube replacement simply by banking on the fact that he knows a lot more about the workings of a TV set than the average customer. A crooked auto repairman can swindle the pants off a customer who has little knowledge of cars. How about a quack doctor using medical terminology to make a phony diagnosis ??
Simply dumping the blame on the customer, calling them deadbeats, and saying "well, you should be smart enough not to get hustled" is not valid. Given the right circumstances almost anyone can be hustled. Matter of fact even a good hustler can get hustled and beat.
Present stats show that far too many people are getting hustled on mortgages by predatory lenders. The bottom line is that if the result of this is huge numbers of foreclosures as some are predicting this will not only hurt those who were suckered but it will hurt those who own homes and were not suckered. If you are a home owner this can have an adverse affect on YOU. Obviously something needs to be done to stop these dirty, filthy, rotten swindler criminals once and for all.
KD6NIG
03-29-2007, 08:24 PM
Well, one thing is for sure though:
If these companies make these loans, they get defaulted on, and at auction they only get half the money back they loaned......
They won't be doing it for long.
K0RGR
03-29-2007, 08:28 PM
It isn't just the mortgages.
First, banks in many cases raised the rates on their credit cards to usury levels. The former church credit union -based MasterCard we used went from 8% interest to 28%. I don't remember seeing any notices of this, but they snow you with so much fine print it's impossible to keep up with it. I bet I've been getting swindled on that account for years and didn't notice it. I recently took all the money I had in their institution out, and the first thing I did was pay off that credit card. I was paying hundreds each month in interest!
Then, Congress tightened the bankruptcy laws so that you can now lose your house over your consumer credit debts.
And, not satisfied that they had impoverished enough people, Congress required all credit card companies to increase their minimum payments. In most cases, mine more than doubled.
Yes, there really is a war on the middle class.
People who were living close to the edge went over the cliff a while ago. The rest of us are drifting in that direction.
But, on the bright side, they're firing fewer of us old wage slaves every day.
One of my wife's boys just went through this - he was hard over on getting himself a house or a condo because he finally got tired of the rent game. After looking into what was on the market in a price range that he could even remotely qualify for and afford, he was left with having to buy a conversion condo. After all was said and done, he signs on the dotted line for a 40 year mortgage against all advice given to him on the subject. I know why he did it - no doubt figures he'll just refi in a couple of years to get a better rate and a shorter term - how many times have you heard that before? It always looks great on paper until the plan doesn't fall into place the way you envisioned it. Fortunately for him, he lives in an area where the housing market is still appreciating rapidly and shows no signs of slowing down, despite the national trend that indicates otherwise. Oh, and he has rented one of the rooms out so roommates are in play now too. He claims that the money he gets is just "extra" but I know better - he probably can't make the mortgage payment without it and this was his plan all along. Well, when it all falls apart who do you think is going to get the armtwist for the bailout? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.
WA2DYA
03-29-2007, 08:50 PM
When this 'house of cards' collapses maybe the Pocono Mountains of PA can return to how it was in 1980 when I moved here.
Nah ... It's not going to happen.
--- CHAS
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 29 2007,07:01)]Well, obviously the clear truth in lending act didn't assure enough clear truth to prevent predatory brokers to swindle people.
The bottom line is that many people are not that well versed in understanding finance. You get some predatory financier
who is unscrupulous and well versed in his trade/profession. Unfortunately such people sometimes use their knowledge and skills in ways that are deceptive. The bottom line is that those who are not as knowledgeable and are eager to get that new home often fall victim to these deceptors.
Who caused the problem because they can't understand what they read? Who won't seek outside help when they have the opportunity? Can we blame the education system now or just greedy borrowers?
This whole mess is a product of Bush's "ownership society" and the rush to get everyone into their own homes.
Go buy a car. Anyone can get a new one with any credit history and I don't see anyone calling the lenders preditory, especially when the buyer defaults on the loan. Which many buyers do.
Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ Mar. 29 2007,11:37)]Someone once said (don't remember who), "A little revolution now and then is a good thing."
I know what you mean, because there is a quote like that. I can only think of this one at the moment however:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
n4sva
03-29-2007, 10:04 PM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ Mar. 29 2007,08:24)]Quote[/b] (n0jaa @ Mar. 29 2007,11:37)]Someone once said (don't remember who), "A little revolution now and then is a good thing."
Was made by Sean Connery in "The Hunt for Red October" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
n2ize
03-29-2007, 10:44 PM
Quote[/b] (W5JO @ Mar. 29 2007,14:14)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 29 2007,07:01)]Well, obviously the clear truth in lending act didn't assure enough clear truth to prevent predatory brokers to swindle people.
The bottom line is that many people are not that well versed in understanding finance. You get some predatory financier
who is unscrupulous and well versed in his trade/profession. Unfortunately such people sometimes use their knowledge and skills in ways that are deceptive. The bottom line is that those who are not as knowledgeable and are eager to get that new home often fall victim to these deceptors.
Who caused the problem because they can't understand what they read? #Who won't seek outside help when they have the opportunity? #Can we blame the education system now or just greedy borrowers? #
This whole mess is a product of Bush's "ownership society" and the rush to get everyone into their own homes.
Go buy a car. #Anyone can get a new one with any credit history and I don't see anyone calling the lenders preditory, especially when the buyer defaults on the loan. #Which many buyers do.
You raise some good points and you are right. There is more than one cause for the problems we are seeing. The heavy push and drive towards rapid ownership at all costs is definately a factor. People are sometimes too hasty to sign on the dotted line and claim ownership without paying particular attention to what they are signing. Likewise many people are reluctant to read carefully and educate themselves to learn what they may not understand. All too often the desire for rapid gratification superseeds taking the time out to learn.
I agree that all thse things and more cause problems. However, predatory mortage practices cannot be overlooked nor can the be condoned. There are simply too many cases of lenders (hustlers) adopting sneaky, deceptive practices to entice people into bad situations. This cannot be left unchecked.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 29 2007,09:44)]There are simply too many cases of lenders (hustlers) adopting sneaky, deceptive practices to entice people into bad situations. This cannot be left unchecked.
Whether or not we wish it to stop, it will continue. Read the bible about "money changers" to see how far in moden history the problem existed.
The only way to reduce the problem is to REQUIRE education of everyone. Not specific education, but overall knowledge will suffice. P.T. had it right and his truism will last for all enternity.
Quote[/b] ]I agree that all thse things and more cause problems. However, predatory mortage practices cannot be overlooked nor can the be condoned. There are simply too many cases of lenders (hustlers) adopting sneaky, deceptive practices to entice people into bad situations. This cannot be left unchecked.
How does anybody get "sneaky", "predatory", or "deceptive" out of this?
The terms of the mortgage are spelled out in black and white.
Sneaky implies the lender has changed the terms of the mortgage without notification. If you sign an ARM you have to know the interest rate and thus your payment will go up.
Predatory, yep, those evil lenders are just banging down doors in the middle of the night forcing people into risky at best mortgages. Grow up!
Deceptive, if you mean they don't spell it out in crayon. Every part of the deal is spelled out in clear detail.
I'd think you people would get tired of making excuses for stupid people.
KI4ITV
03-29-2007, 11:32 PM
But... your Honor! The big bad corporations were praying on my vanity! Forget about my financial worth for a minute and let's focus on my self-worth.
This extravagance makes me feel good and in America feeling good about me is a right! Right?
My grandparents would be bewildered by the mentality that gets us to the point where we are having discussions like this.
edit-added "r" aaaarrrhhh.
n2ize
03-30-2007, 12:26 AM
Quote[/b] (AC0H @ Mar. 29 2007,16:04)]Quote[/b] ]I agree that all thse things and more cause problems. However, predatory mortage practices cannot be overlooked nor can the be condoned. There are simply too many cases of lenders (hustlers) adopting sneaky, deceptive practices to entice people into bad situations. This cannot be left unchecked.
How does anybody get "sneaky", "predatory", or "deceptive" out of this?
The terms of the mortgage are spelled out in black and white.
Sneaky implies the lender has changed the terms of the mortgage without notification. If you sign an ARM you have to know the interest rate and thus your payment will go up.
Predatory, yep, those evil lenders are just banging down doors in the middle of the night forcing people into risky at best mortgages. Grow up!
Deceptive, if you mean they don't spell it out in crayon. Every part of the deal is spelled out in clear detail.
I'd think you people would get tired of making excuses for stupid people.
Quote[/b] ]
How does anybody get "sneaky", "predatory", or "deceptive" out of this?
The terms of the mortgage are spelled out in black and white.
In many cases they were not spelled out very clearly. Then the mortgage ballooned beyond what these people can afford to pay.
Sorry to have to pick on these poor lenders that Y'all love so much but now it seems there predatory practices might have a negative backlash on everyone. Even those smart neocons who know what they are doing every step of the way.
n2ize
03-30-2007, 12:33 AM
Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Mar. 28 2007,19:57)]Wait a minute...
Our economy is doing GREAT. #Just ask the cons. #1.8 million homeowners going belly up? #So what. #The economy is doing GREAT.
GREAT.
GREAT.
GREAT.
Just keep repeating that. #1.8 million times. #That will make it true.
Well, actually, if you are a billionaire.
The economy is doing GREAT!
GREAT!
GREAT!
GREAT!
Enter a dark room, light some candles and repeat the mantra.. Just repeat...
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
"I am evil. The predatory lenders are good"
...
and by morning it will be true.
Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 28 2007,22:54)]Well, to all the people who think that, "Well, they signed the papers..they have to live with the consequences."
WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG....
They signed those papers because of the VERY STRONG "American Dream" that "If you're a homeowner, you rule." #
That's a VERY STRONG ethic in America.
The people who signed for mortgages they eventually couldn't afford were DUPED by predatory AH's that shoud rot in hell. #The jerks that sold them a bill of goods knew VERY WELL that the poor folk who believed their lies would eventually face foreclosure. #And now they do.
This is ronnie, w, and neo-conism at it's most predatory and most nasty against Americans.
They exploited the American Dream to a despicable degree, and none of us should give anyone who cares a pass to the predatory, nasty individuals who promulgated those awful mortgages. #Shame on them. #That's NOT America.
Gotta love how the LIBS make people out to be victims. ##Murderer, why it's not his fault, it's his parents, schools, where he lives. #People who violate our borders, why they are all victims, never mind they are breaking the law. #And now we have the idiots who purchased a home they could not afford, it's not their fault. #Guess what LIBS, the American Dream comes in 900sq ft. as well as 2000 sq ft. .
WA3WDR
03-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Too much easily-borrowed money - it caused the whole housing market bubble. #Now the party's over.
I #can't believe the legal scams that are coming from every direction. #I just got an offer for a nice low-interest loan from my mortgage company. #Supposedly, of course, I was pre-approved. #BUT - the fine print not only said that my interest rate might be higher than what they were showing me, but it also just happened to mention that they could raise the interest rate at any time, at their discretion. #Into the round file it went...
I went to a website to buy some RAM for the laser printer, and after the order they asked me to fill out a user opinion report, and they promised some bonus. Well, the 'bonus' turned out to be a subscription to some magazine at a low starting rate for the first year, and then of course the cost went up. #Excuse me, but I wasn't looking to buy a magazine subscription disguised as a customer opinion poll, when I was all done with my order, and it was time to get on to the next job!!! #And worse yet, they would probably have stuck me with three subscriptions to who knows what at full price or higher. #Grrrrrr
Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Mar. 29 2007,20:46)]Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 28 2007,22:54)]Well, to all the people who think that, "Well, they signed the papers..they have to live with the consequences."
WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG....
They signed those papers because of the VERY STRONG "American Dream" that "If you're a homeowner, you rule."
That's a VERY STRONG ethic in America.
The people who signed for mortgages they eventually couldn't afford were DUPED by predatory AH's that shoud rot in hell. The jerks that sold them a bill of goods knew VERY WELL that the poor folk who believed their lies would eventually face foreclosure. And now they do.
This is ronnie, w, and neo-conism at it's most predatory and most nasty against Americans.
They exploited the American Dream to a despicable degree, and none of us should give anyone who cares a pass to the predatory, nasty individuals who promulgated those awful mortgages. Shame on them. That's NOT America.
Gotta love how the LIBS make people out to be victims. Murderer, why it's not his fault, it's his parents, schools, where he lives. People who violate our borders, why they are all victims, never mind they are breaking the law. And now we have the idiots who purchased a home they could not afford, it's not their fault. Guess what LIBS, the American Dream comes in 900sq ft. as well as 2000 sq ft. .
Wow, Danno, I got to admit, I like seeing your writing style. But, comparing people who have mortgages on their houses to murderers?
W1GUH
03-30-2007, 04:00 AM
Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Mar. 28 2007,18:46)]Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 28 2007,22:54)]Well, to all the people who think that, "Well, they signed the papers..they have to live with the consequences."
WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG....
They signed those papers because of the VERY STRONG "American Dream" that "If you're a homeowner, you rule."
That's a VERY STRONG ethic in America.
The people who signed for mortgages they eventually couldn't afford were DUPED by predatory AH's that shoud rot in hell. The jerks that sold them a bill of goods knew VERY WELL that the poor folk who believed their lies would eventually face foreclosure. And now they do.
This is ronnie, w, and neo-conism at it's most predatory and most nasty against Americans.
They exploited the American Dream to a despicable degree, and none of us should give anyone who cares a pass to the predatory, nasty individuals who promulgated those awful mortgages. Shame on them. That's NOT America.
Gotta love how the LIBS make people out to be victims. Murderer, why it's not his fault, it's his parents, schools, where he lives. People who violate our borders, why they are all victims, never mind they are breaking the law. And now we have the idiots who purchased a home they could not afford, it's not their fault. Guess what LIBS, the American Dream comes in 900sq ft. as well as 2000 sq ft. .
Gotta love how the cons never accept any responsibility for anything.
KA8NCR
03-30-2007, 04:16 AM
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Mar. 29 2007,07:42)]Thats right, you can own a $500,000 house with only a 25k a year income!
Somewhere, common sense has to tell you that there is no way in heck that will fly.
True. Let's give it the Christian smell test.
Selling drugs to an addict. Fails smell test.
Selling pornography (to anyone). Fails smell test.
Selling mortgages to someone who has no ability to pay and then packaging that mortgage that will fail into a mortgage backed security and selling it on the open market. Apparently, that smells like money and it's okay.
Common sense tells you that when someone knocks on your door and offers to reseal your driveway for $200 "because they have materials from a job down the street", it's probably a bad idea. But people fall for it, all the time and it doesn't make the scam any less of a crime. That is, unless they really do seal the driveway and not just dump old motor oil on it.
And if you sell a mortgage to someone who can pay, you've sealed the driveway. Otherwise, you're just a scam artist.
KC2ESD
03-30-2007, 04:39 AM
Let me chime in. I'm a Punisher Republican who believes in a free market. Now I have to say this: The Lending Companies must be more Regulated. There must be a Interest rate limit of 16.99% max on all loans including credit cards. The late fees need to be looked at too. The Public is getting ripped off by the Legal Loan Sharks. The Democrats and Republicans both have not done a damn thing to protect the People from the preditor lenders. If something is not done there could be blood on the hands of congress. I hope someone sees this post in the House or Senate and do something about it.
Rick KC2ESD
W1GUH
03-30-2007, 04:43 AM
Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ Mar. 28 2007,22:39)]Let me chime in. I'm a Punisher Republican who believes in a free market. Now I have to say this: The Lending Companies must be more Regulated. There must be a Interest rate limit of 16.99% max on all loans including credit cards. The late fees need to be looked at too. The Public is getting ripped off by the Legal Loan Sharks. The Democrats and Republicans both have not done a damn thing to protect the People from the preditor lenders. If something is not done there could be blood on the hands of congress. I hope someone sees this post in the House or Senate and do something about it.
Rick KC2ESD
Yea, but how're they gonna recover from the Keating Savings and Loan scandals from ronnie's days if they hafta keep credit card interest low?
And don't forget that savings accounts pay virtually no interest these days. Last I checked it was about 0.5%.
KA8NCR
03-30-2007, 04:44 AM
Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 29 2007,21:43)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ Mar. 28 2007,22:39)]Let me chime in. I'm a Punisher Republican who believes in a free market. Now I have to say this: The Lending Companies must be more Regulated. There must be a Interest rate limit of 16.99% max on all loans including credit cards. The late fees need to be looked at too. The Public is getting ripped off by the Legal Loan Sharks. The Democrats and Republicans both have not done a damn thing to protect the People from the preditor lenders. If something is not done there could be blood on the hands of congress. I hope someone sees this post in the House or Senate and do something about it.
Rick KC2ESD
Yea, but how're they gonna recover from the Keating Savings and Loan scandals from ronnie's days if they hafta keep credit card interest low?
And don't forget that savings accounts pay virtually no interest these days. Last I checked it was about 0.5%.
ING Direct is 5%. A lot of online savings are doing that well.
The problem with savings is that banks no longer see their way to making money with moving and loaning it. It's cheaper to get their money on the open market and much more profitable to earn their profits through fees.
Quote[/b] ]New Century Financial Corp. filed for bankruptcy protection Monday amid a surge in homeowner defaults, the biggest mortgage lender to collapse in the slumping U.S. housing market.
Lenders going down now. (http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/198596)
The saga continues.
Ah, I see the other shoe is dropping. Wasn't this exactly why the <span style='color:red'>RIGHT©</span> hated Jimma Carter?? Guess who paid for that? Guess who paid for all those defualted 3rd world loans in Nixon's term? Guess who paid for Neil Bush? Guess who's paying for this?
Oh, that's <span style='color:red'>RIGHT©</span>, Jimma was one o'dose DEMS so that was the real problem.
Has anyone bothered to follow Schumer's money trail? IMHO, Schumer may be using this tactic to soften the public up for a lender bailout. Does Schumer have any banks in his stable of cash cows?
Quote[/b] (ab3ex @ April 02 2007,16:41)]Has anyone bothered to follow Schumer's money trail? IMHO, Schumer may be using this tactic to soften the public up for a lender bailout. Does Schumer have any banks in his stable of cash cows?
Straws! Straws! There must be some somewhere! Straws!! Must! Grasp! At! Straws!!!
Mwaahhaha! Talk about desperate!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Bingo!
Here's a list of Schumer's finance, insurance, real estate contributors:
Finance, Insurance & Real Estate: $4,376,182
Commercial Banks $371,425
Citigroup Inc $111,300
JP Morgan & Co $57,150
Chase Manhattan $46,000
Deutsche Bank North America $39,850
Commercial Bank of New York $33,000
Republic National Bank of New York $25,250
Bank of New York $23,750
First Union Corp $12,000
Bank of America $11,000
Bank One Corp $10,000
American Bankers Assn $8,500
Berkshire Bank $8,000
Independent Community Bankers of America $8,000
Savings & Loans $31,500
Greenpoint Bank $17,000
Finance/Credit Companies $68,484
American Express $27,050
General Electric $14,000
Securities & Investment $2,263,276
Credit Suisse First Boston $180,832
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co $148,000
Citigroup Inc $133,366
Goldman, Sachs & Co $109,800
Lehman Brothers $106,450
Neuberger & Berman $82,500
Merrill Lynch $75,850
Goldman Sachs $73,500
Lazard Freres & Co $60,750
Bear Stearns $54,350
PaineWebber $54,000
Spear, Leeds & Kellogg $53,500
Kohlberg, Kravis et al $44,000
EM Warburg, Pincus & Co $41,800
Brown Brothers Harriman & Co $39,250
Instinet Corp $38,000
Wasserstein, Perella & Co $37,500
UBS Warburg $35,750
Cantor, Fitzgerald & Co $32,000
Bear, Stearns & Co $31,850
Tiger Management $28,250
Castle Harlan Inc $25,700
Nomura Securities International $25,500
Lion Advisors $25,000
Soros Fund Management $22,000
Chase Manhattan $20,400
Prudential Insurance $19,250
Oppenheimer Capital $18,750
Blackstone Group $17,500
First Investors Management $16,000
Refco $16,000
Weiss, Peck & Greer $16,000
Welsh, Carson et al $15,750
Allen & Co $14,500
New York Mercantile Exchange $13,250
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co $12,700
Chieftain Capital Management $12,500
Gruntal & Co $12,000
Furman Selz Inc $11,550
OppenheimerFunds $11,450
Sanford C Bernstein & Co $11,075
AEA Investors $11,000
Bernard L Madoff Investment Securities $11,000
Clayton, Dubilier & Rice $10,500
Trust Co of the West $10,250
DH Blair & Co $10,000
GSC Partners $10,000
Investment Co Institute $10,000
Knight Trading Group $10,000
National Venture Capital Assn $10,000
Policy Group $10,000
Hyperion Capital Management $9,625
Entrust Capital $9,250
Odyssey Partners $9,250
Chicago Board of Trade $9,000
CIBC World Markets $9,000
Jordan Co $9,000
Kohlberg & Co $9,000
Tudor Investment Corp $9,000
Wertheim Schroder & Co $9,000
Alliance Capital Management $8,750
J&W Seligman & Co $8,500
Steinhardt Partners $8,300
Schroder, Wertheim & Co $8,250
Alpine Capital Group $8,000
Alpine Capital Management Partners $8,000
Bay Harbour Management $8,000
Caxton Corp $8,000
Dreyfus Corp $8,000
Gordon Haskett Capital $8,000
Gordon Haskett Capital Corp $8,000
J Epstein & Co $8,000
Millburn Corp $8,000
Morgan Stanley $8,000
National Assn of Securities Dealers $8,000
Oak Hill Partners $8,000
Oak Hill Partners Inc $8,000
Insurance $348,366
Metropolitan Life Insurance $70,515
American International Group $59,875
New York Life Insurance $28,250
Reliance Group Holdings $26,000
Equitable Life Assurance Society $20,150
TIAA-CREF $18,200
Loews Corp $12,000
MONY Group $11,000
Citigroup Inc $10,750
Guardian Life Insurance $9,000
Leucadia National Corp $9,000
Real Estate $757,123
Sylvan Lawrence Co $40,000
Kushner Companies $25,000
Cushman & Wakefield $24,000
Newmark & Co Real Estate $23,750
Related Companies $23,000
Milstein Properties $20,000
Related Companies Inc $18,000
Sterling Equities $17,875
Julien J Studley Inc $15,000
M&R Management $14,000
Insignia Financial Group $12,250
Apollo Management $11,000
Witkoff Group $11,000
Helmsley-Spear Inc $9,000
Insignia/ESG $9,000
Millennium Partners $9,000
Rentar Development Corp $9,000
Swig, Weiler & Arnow Management Co $9,000
Reckson Assoc Realty $8,500
Swig, Weiler & Arnow Management $8,500
HJ Kalikow & Co $8,000
Vornado Realty Trust $8,000
World-Wide Holdings Corp $8,000
I'm going to ask once. LINK PLEASE.
Oh, and be aware, if there's any legal problem with these contributors, I'd like to see the link for that too. Oddly enough most of those banks have corporate offices here. DUnno why. Must be that New York City is the nations leading financial center... Stange world, eh? Stranger yet how neocons have yet to post a single message on how Bush I managed to bail our son Neil?
This is the way it always works. Funny, none of you were crying when it was the people who borrowed who were in debt? Typical.
Personally I think Schumer should leave Bush and his neocons to drown in this cesspool.
n2ize
04-02-2007, 10:01 PM
"Schummer"... sounds like something done from a boat when you are trying to catch fish.
W1GUH
04-03-2007, 12:00 AM
Sparky enters the housing market (http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=22163)
But, y'know, I'm not sure it's "predatory" lenders. In some ways it looks like very stupid lenders and suckers.
After all, both Sparky and the lender said "You'd think I would have anticipated this moment."
Argh! I guess green paper makes people's minds turn into shredded brown paper.
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ April 02 2007,14:15)]I'm going to ask once. LINK PLEASE.
Oh, and be aware, if there's any legal problem with these contributors, I'd like to see the link for that too. Oddly enough most of those banks have corporate offices here. DUnno why. Must be that New York City is the nations leading financial center... Stange world, eh? Stranger yet how neocons have yet to post a single message on how Bush I managed to bail our son Neil?
This is the way it always works. Funny, none of you were crying when it was the people who borrowed who were in debt? Typical.
Personally I think Schumer should leave Bush and his neocons to drown in this cesspool.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politic....le=2000 (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/detail.asp?CID=N00001093&cycle=2000)
BTW, I am not a member of the Republican Party. I am merely a voter who has learned to follow the money. Politicians from both of the major parties do not use the bathroom without permission from their bankrollers.
Quote[/b] (ab3ex @ April 02 2007,20:03)]Quote[/b] (n2nh @ April 02 2007,14:15)]I'm going to ask once. LINK PLEASE.
Oh, and be aware, if there's any legal problem with these contributors, I'd like to see the link for that too. Oddly enough most of those banks have corporate offices here. DUnno why. Must be that New York City is the nations leading financial center... Stange world, eh? Stranger yet how neocons have yet to post a single message on how Bush I managed to bail our son Neil?
This is the way it always works. Funny, none of you were crying when it was the people who borrowed who were in debt? Typical.
Personally I think Schumer should leave Bush and his neocons to drown in this cesspool.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politic....le=2000 (http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/detail.asp?CID=N00001093&cycle=2000)
BTW, I am not a member of the Republican Party. I am merely a voter who has learned to follow the money. Politicians from both of the major parties do use the bathroom without permission from their bankrollers.
Well, outside of stocks, security firms, insurance companies and accountants are not banks, any company that contributed would benefit from a bailout since they all stand to lose money if the market takes a hit - and that is LONG overdue.
The realty companies that are mentioned are not usually affected by the effects of this kind of problem. They have good well established credit lines and do not deal with the consumer housing market much. They are mainly in the Commercial real estate market - offices, hotels etc. Anybody who has some real estate background in NYC would know that.
So, for the most part, we're looking at 16 contributors that may be affected. Some of those will be minimally affected too as in the case of the banks. There are banks there that do very little business in the consumer market - like the real estate companies, they're in the commercial market.
That narrows the list down to 10 or 12. Is that a possibility? Yes. Schumer's been in office for years, so it's unlikely and improbable, but anything is possible.
OTOH, if you had a mortgage and your house was being taken away, what then? Would you say no? I think this plan would be like FICA, an insurance to protect consumers. As far as the bailout, who else do you think was going to pay. At the very least, our money will stay home. What we spend in Iraq every day is irretrievably lost and astronomically higher to what this will cost us, our children, grand-children, and great-grandchildren.
Should it have happened? No. Did it? Yes.
Now ask why.
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ April 02 2007,18:55)]Well, outside of stocks, security firms, insurance companies and accountants are not banks, any company that contributed would benefit from a bailout since they all stand to lose money if the market takes a hit - and that is LONG overdue. #
Insurance companies are the biggest buyers of mortgage-backed securities. #Securities firms, investment bankers, commercial credit outfits, and accounting firms are all involved, too, but the biggest players, by far, are the insurance companies.
This is one reason author Andrew Tobias called them "The Invisible Bankers" in his book of the same name.
I have always maintained that real estate costs what it does is because of the financial industry's willingness to loan virtually unlimited sums of money to buyers while requiring little or no collateral. #If the financial industry decided to drastically tighten up its lending policies the price of real estate would plummet overnight.
k5xit
04-03-2007, 10:10 AM
Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Mar. 28 2007,17:51)]It's awfully easy and liberally chic to blame the greedy bankers. #The last persons that we would ever want to blame for this are all of the stupid arseholes who signed the mortgage contract without bothering to read it or understanding the possible consequences. #
Yes, let's all jump upon the Schumer Tumor bandwagon, ride into town and pick off a few fat, rich, greedy bankers. # By all means lets get Congress into an uproar and find out first hand just why in the Hell the bankers just didn't hand over the keys to the houses and say "Here Kiddies, have fun".
By all means let's not bring up the fact that there is a large percentage of our population that has been brought up to believe that they aren't responsible for their own actions and should anything go amiss in their lives they know that all they have to do is go running to Mama Fed and she'll kiss it and make it all better. #
Surely we can't even touch upon the fact that these people are probably too ignorant or lazy to read a mortgage contract or to understand even the basics of financial agreements. #After all, there are much more important things in life most of which can be seen on ESPN. #
Of course it affects all homeowners - so what is new with that? #Indeed with foreclosed homes glutting the market, the prices of marketable homes will spiral downward. #That's only part of the equation. #The other part is that those of us that work hard and are financially solvent are going to be soaked with taxes to finance a recovery bill for those losers (you really didn't think the bank was going to take it in the poop chute didya?)
How dare you talk common sense? I thought this board was for mindless rantings.
WA3KYY
04-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Mar. 29 2007,15:28)]It isn't just the mortgages.
First, banks in many cases raised the rates on their credit cards to usury levels. The former church credit union -based MasterCard we used went from 8% interest to 28%. I don't remember seeing any notices of this, but they snow you with so much fine print it's impossible to keep up with it. I bet I've been getting swindled on that account for years and didn't notice it. I recently took all the money I had in their institution out, and the first thing I did was pay off that credit card. I was paying hundreds each month in interest!
Well why were you doing that? #Ever since I had a credit card of any type, I have only rarely paid any interest, and that goes back nearly 40 years. #As a rule of thumb, my minimum monthly payment is 100% of the total charges on the card. If I do not already have enough in my bank account to pay off a charge in full, then I do not make the purchase. #If it is something I really need, then a personal loan from my bank or credit union is a far better means than using a credit card.
My credit card suppliers have a love/hate relationship with me. #They love me enough to keep raising my credit limit. #They hate me because it is exceedingly rare that I pay any finance charges and never any annual fees. #They love me because I charge enough that the merchants fees cover the cost of servicing my account.
73,
Mike WA3KYY
Quote[/b] (k5xit @ April 03 2007,02:10)]Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Mar. 28 2007,17:51)]It's awfully easy and liberally chic to blame the greedy bankers. The last persons that we would ever want to blame for this are all of the stupid arseholes who signed the mortgage contract without bothering to read it or understanding the possible consequences.
Yes, let's all jump upon the Schumer Tumor bandwagon, ride into town and pick off a few fat, rich, greedy bankers. By all means lets get Congress into an uproar and find out first hand just why in the Hell the bankers just didn't hand over the keys to the houses and say "Here Kiddies, have fun".
By all means let's not bring up the fact that there is a large percentage of our population that has been brought up to believe that they aren't responsible for their own actions and should anything go amiss in their lives they know that all they have to do is go running to Mama Fed and she'll kiss it and make it all better.
Surely we can't even touch upon the fact that these people are probably too ignorant or lazy to read a mortgage contract or to understand even the basics of financial agreements. After all, there are much more important things in life most of which can be seen on ESPN.
Of course it affects all homeowners - so what is new with that? Indeed with foreclosed homes glutting the market, the prices of marketable homes will spiral downward. That's only part of the equation. The other part is that those of us that work hard and are financially solvent are going to be soaked with taxes to finance a recovery bill for those losers (you really didn't think the bank was going to take it in the poop chute didya?)
How dare you talk common sense? I thought this board was for mindless rantings.
Is it just me or have financial instruments become tricky, complicated minefields in the last 10-15 years? It appears to me that the entire lending industry is filling with "Smiling Bobs" who want to stick you with their interest rates. It is a huge bait n' switch game that is highly corrosive to society.
A knee-jerk support of these looters is hostile to free minds, free markets and free people.